posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
I've long noticed a trend in social media of white guys into the occult also having racist tendencies.

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Posts: 7169 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
I've seen some of Metatron's videos and I find him to be highly incredulous in regards to not just Egypt but North Africans in general considering that he seems to be fluent in Latin which gives him no excuse as to how he can disregard all the textual evidence describing Egyptians and other North Africans as 'black'.

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quote:

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considering the data we have
available right now my opinion is that
the egyptians were a multi-ethnic
population the majority would have been
brown some would have been black some
might have been white i'm more than
happy to be proven wrong by new data in
fact that is the very basis of this
video that i would like the message that
i would like to leave with this video
this in my opinion is the most sensible
position considering the data we have
available we always have to be
open-minded if by next year we analyze a
huge amount of mummies and we see that
instead the majority of egyptians were
black i will be more than happy to say i
was wrong and i will be in fact
fascinated by this discovery

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
I've seen some of Metatron's videos and I find him to be highly incredulous in regards to not just Egypt but North Africans in general considering that he seems to be fluent in Latin which gives him no excuse as to how he can disregard all the textual evidence describing Egyptians and other North Africans as 'black'.

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Posts: 43042 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by BrandonP:

You're not the first to observe that correlation. A lot of influential figures in movements like the New Age have had some very ugly ideas about race. Helena Blavatsky and her Theosophy movement, Rudolf Steiner and his Anthroposophy, the authors of the Urantia Book, not to mention those Nazis who dabbled in that kind of occultist stuff. A lot of the claims about Atlanteans or aliens civilizing the non-Western world in ancient times have racist undertones too.

And then, of course, there's all the careless misinterpretations and misrepresentations of Asian, Native American, or other "pagan" religious traditions which New Agers incorporate into their "theology". I know some people abuse the "cultural appropriation" buzzword way too much, but if anything deserves to be called cultural appropriation, it's how woo peddlers tend to treat any cultural traditions they consider exotic and cool.

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Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
He says at 17:04 in the original video:

quote:

---

considering the data we have
available right now my opinion is that
the egyptians were a multi-ethnic
population the majority would have been
brown some would have been black some
might have been white i'm more than
happy to be proven wrong by new data in
fact that is the very basis of this
video that i would like the message that
i would like to leave with this video
this in my opinion is the most sensible
position considering the data we have
available we always have to be
open-minded if by next year we analyze a
huge amount of mummies and we see that
instead the majority of Egyptians were
black i will be more than happy to say i
was wrong and i will be in fact
fascinated by this discovery

---

---

quote:

---

The primary encounter with foreign and unknown nations is clearly and always made through sight. Even if one does not talk to, or trade with, or fight, or approach, other people, a visual impression is made. Accordingly, we find several proverbial expressions related to physical appearance. In Plautus’ Poenulus (‘the little Punic’) Antamonides, a soldier in love with one of two Carthaginian girls, exclaims:

Now that I’m angry I’d like my girlfriend to meet me: with my fists I’ll make sure that she’s black as a blackbird this instant, I’ll fill her with blackness to such an extent that she’s much blacker than the Egyptians (atrior … quam Aegyptini) who carry the bucket round the circus during the games.

(Plaut. Poen. 1288–91)
Egyptians thus are presented as a standard for blackness, even if the image is based not on an actual visit to Egypt but on the appearance of Egyptians who were brought to Rome and performed or worked in the circus. Perhaps these implied circumstances emphasized even more the physical difference between locals (Roman city dwellers who attended the theatre) and foreigners (Egyptian slaves). But Egyptians were not the usual symbol of dark complexion. Based on what we have available in writing, other North Africans were more commonly used as proverbial illustrations of black or dark skin.

In the so-called Priapic erotic epigrams, a certain very repulsive girl is said to be ‘no whiter than a Moor’ (non candidior puella Mauro) (46.1). In another Priapic epigram the Moors represent elaborately curly hair when mocking a feminine male who ‘primp[s] his hair with curly irons so he’d seem a Moorish maiden’ (ferventi caput ustulare ferro, ut Maurae similis foret puellae) (45.2–3). The Latin Mauri sometimes referred specifically to the inhabitants of the region defined in ancient geographies as Mauritania, or Maurousia in Greek, which is more or less parallel to parts of modern Morocco and Algeria. However, we often find the same terminology applied, especially in poetic works, to Africans in general. Accordingly, the proverbial association of Mauri with dark skin could be understood as pertaining to the inhabitants of north-western Africa or to the inhabitants of the continent as a whole. It seems that even if the crowds had no precise geographical idea of peoples and places, the popular notion of certain groups who have black skin must have been established and transmitted.

The Latin references to Egyptians and Mauri as people with a darker complexion combine to form the traditional and most well-known use of Aethiops as the symbol of black skin already in Greek proverbial applications. The very etymology of the Greek word Αἰθίοψ, denoting a ‘burnt face’ (αἴθω, ὄψ), as well as the Greek idiom ‘to wash an Aethiops white,’ must have fixed this image in the minds of the crowds, even those who had never met any person from the relevant African regions. This is quite clear, for instance, in Juvenal’s contrast between ‘white’ and ‘Aethiops’ (derideat Aethiopem albus, Juv. 2.23)

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Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                   

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
He says at 17:04 in the original video:

quote:

---

considering the data we have
available right now my opinion is that
the egyptians were a multi-ethnic
population the majority would have been
brown some would have been black some
might have been white i'm more than
happy to be proven wrong by new data in
fact that is the very basis of this
video that i would like the message that
i would like to leave with this video
this in my opinion is the most sensible
position considering the data we have
available we always have to be
open-minded if by next year we analyze a
huge amount of mummies and we see that
instead the majority of Egyptians were
black i will be more than happy to say i
was wrong and i will be in fact
fascinated by this discovery

---

---

Yet the sources of own Roman ancestors have been calling not just Egyptians but Moors of Northwest Africa 'black'.

Ethnic Types and Stereotypes in Ancient Latin Idioms

quote:

---

The primary encounter with foreign and unknown nations is clearly and always made through sight. Even if one does not talk to, or trade with, or fight, or approach, other people, a visual impression is made. Accordingly, we find several proverbial expressions related to physical appearance. In Plautus’ Poenulus (‘the little Punic’) Antamonides, a soldier in love with one of two Carthaginian girls, exclaims:

Now that I’m angry I’d like my girlfriend to meet me: with my fists I’ll make sure that she’s black as a blackbird this instant, I’ll fill her with blackness to such an extent that she’s much blacker than the Egyptians (atrior … quam Aegyptini) who carry the bucket round the circus during the games.

(Plaut. Poen. 1288–91)
Egyptians thus are presented as a standard for blackness, even if the image is based not on an actual visit to Egypt but on the appearance of Egyptians who were brought to Rome and performed or worked in the circus. Perhaps these implied circumstances emphasized even more the physical difference between locals (Roman city dwellers who attended the theatre) and foreigners (Egyptian slaves). But Egyptians were not the usual symbol of dark complexion. Based on what we have available in writing, other North Africans were more commonly used as proverbial illustrations of black or dark skin.

In the so-called Priapic erotic epigrams, a certain very repulsive girl is said to be ‘no whiter than a Moor’ (non candidior puella Mauro) (46.1). In another Priapic epigram the Moors represent elaborately curly hair when mocking a feminine male who ‘primp[s] his hair with curly irons so he’d seem a Moorish maiden’ (ferventi caput ustulare ferro, ut Maurae similis foret puellae) (45.2–3). The Latin Mauri sometimes referred specifically to the inhabitants of the region defined in ancient geographies as Mauritania, or Maurousia in Greek, which is more or less parallel to parts of modern Morocco and Algeria. However, we often find the same terminology applied, especially in poetic works, to Africans in general. Accordingly, the proverbial association of Mauri with dark skin could be understood as pertaining to the inhabitants of north-western Africa or to the inhabitants of the continent as a whole. It seems that even if the crowds had no precise geographical idea of peoples and places, the popular notion of certain groups who have black skin must have been established and transmitted.

The Latin references to Egyptians and Mauri as people with a darker complexion combine to form the traditional and most well-known use of Aethiops as the symbol of black skin already in Greek proverbial applications. The very etymology of the Greek word Αἰθίοψ, denoting a ‘burnt face’ (αἴθω, ὄψ), as well as the Greek idiom ‘to wash an Aethiops white,’ must have fixed this image in the minds of the crowds, even those who had never met any person from the relevant African regions. This is quite clear, for instance, in Juvenal’s contrast between ‘white’ and ‘Aethiops’ (derideat Aethiopem albus, Juv. 2.23)

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This is why I distrust the guy who is fluent in Classical Latin and is an academic, yet missed all these writings?!

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How does this contradict anything in his video ? Are you suggesting that Romans had the same ethnic labels as us today ? aDNA and anthropological analyses have already shown that these North Africans did not share much in common with black africans so they wouldn't fit into our modern understanding of "black"


The "blacks" of Djehuti :

Spectators at a circus, Gafsa, Tunisia. c. 5th century A.D :





Polychrome glazed composition tile this expressive tile is of a captive Libyan chief found in Tell el yahudiya, XXth dynasty (reign of Ramses III), British museum




Stick with Libyan prisoner from King Tutankhamun's tomb New Kingdom 18th Dynasty 1332-1323 BCE




Mosaic of Zliten, c. A.D. 2nd cent., Libya, Archaeological Museum of Tripoli :





From the ancient city of Thabraca :





Detail of the Libyan group of the Chapel of Khnumhotep I at Beni Hassan (12th dynasty) :





Again :

quote:

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Depictions of Libyan men on Egyptian walls show them wearing long cloaks of colorful animal skins, tied at the neck and open on one side (Bates 1914, plate III). They are light skinned , with sparse beards, and long hair including a braided side knot hanging down in front of their ear, decorated on top with ostrich feathers. A notable feature is the use of tattoos to enliven both arms and legs.

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quote:

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As for the Libyans, all we can say for certain is that by Hannibal's day, at any rate, they were worse armed than Roman soldiers. Polybios says (3.87.3, 114.1) that Hannibal issued his Libyans with Roman war gear plundered from the booty of the Trebbia and Lake Trasimene, and Livy notes (22.46.4) that thereafter they could easily have been mistaken for actual Romans

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quote:

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In later periods blacks did not form much of an actual presence in the Greek and Roman worlds . They were regarded as remarkable, but relatively few of them lived among the Greeks and Romans and no country inhabited by a majority of blacks was ever part of the Greek and Roman empires. They were present in fifth-century Athens, but as a rare and expensive type of slave, the possession of which enhanced the status of the owner (Miller 1997: 212–17).

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quote:

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Ethiopian", the word of crucial import as to the full significance of the ethnic identification of peoples darker than greeks and romans, was applied, with a few poetical exceptions, neither to egyptians nor to inhabitants of northwestern Africa, such as Carthaginians, Numidians, or Moors. In other words, all Ethiopians were black or dark, but with hair, noses, and lips differing from these features in other peoples described as black or dark. And Afri (africans) generally referred to the lighter-skinned populations of countries west of Egypt along the northern coast of Africa - peoples whose physical characteristics Greeks and Romans distinguished from those of the dark-skinned inhabitants of the interior of northwestern Africa.

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quote:

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Ethiopians differed from other dark-skinned peoples (e.g., Egyptians, Moors, and Indians) not only in that they were the blackest of all populations known to Greeks and Romans but also in that their hair was the woolliest or most tightly curled. Herodotus clearly located Ethiopians in the Nile Valley to the south of Egypt (e.g. 2.28-30) and in northwestern Africa to the south of the Libyans (4.197) and described some of the former as the most wolly-haired of all mankind (7.70).

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quote:

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That Ethiopians were the blackest peoples known to Greeks and Romans is illustrated by a familiar "color-scheme", succinctly stated in the first century C.E. by Manilius (4.722-30), who classified dark- and black-skinned peoples as follows: Ethiopians, the blackest; Indians, less sunburned; Egyptians, mildly dark; and Moors, the lightest. Several classical authors specifically emphasized that Ethiopians were darker than Egyptians. Inhabitants of the area near the Ethiopian-nubian boundary were said by Flavius Philostratus (Life of Apollonius 6.2) to be not fully black, not as black as ethiopians, but blacker than egyptians.

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quote:

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The aesthetic bias becomes quite clear towards the end of the ancient period, indeed, in the work of Luxorius, an African poet who served at the court of the Vandal kings in the early 6th century. In one of his poems, he contrasts a beautiful Pontic girl, symbolizing the Nordic, with an unattractive "foeda" Garamantian, representing either the Ethiopian woman or, at the very least, the southern type farthest from the Nordic.

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quote:

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After inspecting the wall near the rampart in Britain… just as he [Severus] was wondering what omen would present itself, an Ethiopian from a military unit, who was famous among buffoons and always a notable joker, met him with a garland of cypress. And when Severus in a rage ordered that the man be removed from his sight, troubled as he was by the man's ominous colour and the ominous nature of the garland, [the Ethiopian] by way of jest cried, it is said, “You have been all things, you have conquered all things, now, O conqueror, be a god.” " (Historia Augusta, ‘Septimius Severus’, 22.4-5)

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Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Antalas:

How does this contradict anything in his video ? Are you suggesting that Romans had the same ethnic labels as us today? aDNA and anthropological analyses have already shown that these North Africans did not share much in common with black Africans so they wouldn't fit into our modern understanding of "black".

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quote:

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The "blacks" of Djehuti :

Spectators at a circus, Gafsa, Tunisia. c. 5th century A.D :

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quote:

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Polychrome glazed composition tile this expressive tile is of a captive Libyan chief found in Tell el yahudiya, XXth dynasty (reign of Ramses III), British museum




Stick with Libyan prisoner from King Tutankhamun's tomb New Kingdom 18th Dynasty 1332-1323 BCE




Mosaic of Zliten, c. A.D. 2nd cent., Libya, Archaeological Museum of Tripoli :





From the ancient city of Thabraca :





Detail of the Libyan group of the Chapel of Khnumhotep I at Beni Hassan (12th dynasty) :





Again :

quote:

---

Depictions of Libyan men on Egyptian walls show them wearing long cloaks of colorful animal skins, tied at the neck and open on one side (Bates 1914, plate III). They are light skinned , with sparse beards, and long hair including a braided side knot hanging down in front of their ear, decorated on top with ostrich feathers. A notable feature is the use of tattoos to enliven both arms and legs.

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Gerald P. Schaus, Cyrenaica, in: A Companion to Greeks Across The Ancient World, Wiley Blackwell, 2020, p. 342


If Libyans/Afri were "black" how could they get mistaken as roman simply with roman war gear ?

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*Yawn* All you've shown are examples of exceptions to the rule. Yes there were whites in the Maghreb but obviously these are not aboriginal but represent YOUR ancestry, though I notice some of the tiles and murals you posted have their original paint worn off!

As for the ancient Libyans especially those the Egyptians wrote of, Oric Bates put it best in his book The Eastern Libyans:

The origin, whether European, Asiatic, or African, of the Hamitic race—which, with the Arabs, now shares that part of Africa which lies north of lat. 10"' N.—yet awaits solution. A host of theories, a few of them plausible, none of them sufficiently supported, and most of them in direct contradiction to each other, have been launched as solutions to this problem, and have but rendered it more obscure. At present, and until a great mass of new and scientifically gathered evidence shall have been collected, only one main fact is indisputable—viz. that the so-called Hamitic race has absorbed a number of foreign ethnic elements, which it has not succeeded in wholly assimilating physically, though it has imposed upon them this or that Hamitic dialect. The original pure Hamitic type seems to be that found among the Saharan Berbers—a type tall, spare, long-limbed, and dark (brun/brown) ; - hair black or dark brown, straight or wavy ; head dolichocephalic, orthognathous ; nose slightly aquiline or straight ; eyes dark and piercing, set rather widely apart ; mouth well-defined ; facial capillary system slightly developed ; movements generally slow and dignified. In the west, between the Wady Dra'ah ("Wed Draa") and the Senegal, this type has become fused with the Negro elements from the south, the resultant type sharing the physical peculiarities of both progenitors. The same thing appears to have happened in the case of the various Hamitic peoples of East Africa.
The most important extra-African elements among the Hamites are the brachycephalic Berbers and the blonds. Both, as one would a priori expect, are found in the north. The brachycephals are, almost certainly, invaders, since they form but a small group near the northern seaboard of the dolichocephalic African continent. The blonds are much more numerous, but are even more clearly of extra-African origin. Various theories have been advanced to account for the presence of this xanthochroid element in Africa, it even having been asserted that the blonds owed their origin to the Vandals. This is, however, not only in itself incredible, owing to the number and distribution of the xanthochroids in the fastnesses of Morocco, but is even flatly contradicted by the ancient evidence. Whatever may be the true significance of the word Tehenu, which some would have to mean "fair" or "bright " (scil. "people"), evidence of a more satisfactory nature is to be found in the Egyptian monuments. For whereas the Libyan in earlier Egyptian art is regularly a brun, later representations exist showing Libyans not only blond, but even with red hair and blue eyes." Classical notices of blond Africans also exist; and **though they are few**, they are explicit...

Hence why the label of BLACK was the general label of North Africans NOT blonde! LOL

This is why even racist anthropologist Carleton Coon designated North Africans as predominantly "melanochroi" and not "Aryan" which he saw as alien to Africa.



And why Coon considered this Shluh Berber representing a "gracile Mediterranean type" as the true indigenous type of Northwest Africa.


So white Berbers are a minority group akin to white South Afrikaaners.

--------------------
Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan.

Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
New video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn3jnjYIFNY

My Response to Metatron about Black Egyptians

Smash Rockwell
Oct 24, 2023

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Posts: 2586 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Antalas:

North Africans were distinguished from Aethiopians because they were lighter skinned and had different traits:

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quote:

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Ethiopian", the word of crucial import as to the full significance of the ethnic identification of peoples darker than greeks and romans, was applied, with a few poetical exceptions, neither to egyptians nor to inhabitants of northwestern Africa, such as Carthaginians, Numidians, or Moors. In other words, all Ethiopians were black or dark, but with hair, noses, and lips differing from these features in other peoples described as black or dark. And Afri (africans) generally referred to the lighter-skinned populations of countries west of Egypt along the northern coast of Africa - peoples whose physical characteristics Greeks and Romans distinguished from those of the dark-skinned inhabitants of the interior of northwestern Africa.

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quote:

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Like today Aethiopians (or Black as we understand it today) were located south of Egypt and south of Libyans ....what a coincidence:

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quote:

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Ethiopians differed from other dark-skinned peoples (e.g., Egyptians, Moors, and Indians) not only in that they were the blackest of all populations known to Greeks and Romans but also in that their hair was the woolliest or most tightly curled. Herodotus clearly located Ethiopians in the Nile Valley to the south of Egypt (e.g. 2.28-30) and in northwestern Africa to the south of the Libyans (4.197) and described some of the former as the most wolly-haired of all mankind (7.70).

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Frank M. Snowden Jr., Bernal's "Blacks" and the Afrocentrists, in: Black athena revisited, The university of North Carolina Press, 1996, p. 114

Herdotus: Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have οὐλότριχες (woolly) hair





But remember Antalas cited evidence showing that both Nubians and Mauritanians are skeletally and genetically North Africans not Sub-Saharan Negroes.

quote:

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Among this "black/dark" category that Djehuti keeps obsessing over, Manilius an african writer classified egyptians as lighter than Aethiopians and indians and described moors as the lightest of them all:

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quote:

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That Ethiopians were the blackest peoples known to Greeks and Romans is illustrated by a familiar "color-scheme", succinctly stated in the first century C.E. by Manilius (4.722-30), who classified dark- and black-skinned peoples as follows: Ethiopians, the blackest; Indians, less sunburned; Egyptians, mildly dark; and Moors, the lightest. Several classical authors specifically emphasized that Ethiopians were darker than Egyptians. Inhabitants of the area near the Ethiopian-Nubian boundary were said by Flavius Philostratus (Life of Apollonius 6.2) to be not fully black, not as black as ethiopians, but blacker than Egyptians.

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quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:

Manilius composed a hierarchy of the white and black peoples known in his day by descending intensity of pallor or color in lines 711-730 of his Astronomicon as below.

quote:

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lines 711-714
Idcirco in varias leges variasque figuras
dispositum genus est hominum, proprioque colore
formantur gentes, sociataque iura per artus
materiamque parem privato foedere signant.


lines 715-722
flava per ingentis surgit Germania partus,
Gallia vicino minus est infecta rubore,
asperior solidos Hispania contrahit artus.
Martia Romanis urbis pater induit ora
Gradivumque Venus miscens bene temperat artus,
perque coloratas subtilis Graecia gentes
gymnasium praefert vultu fortisque palaestras,
et Syriam produnt torti per tempora crines.


lines 723-730
Aethiopes maculant orbem tenebrisque figurant
perfusas hominum gentes; minus India tostos
progenerat;
tellusque natans Aegyptia Nilo
lenius irriguis infuscat corpora campis
iam propior
mediumque facit moderata tenorem.
Phoebus harenosis Afrorum pulvere terris
exsiccat populos, et Mauretania nomen
oris habet titulumque suo fert ipsa colore.

---

Anyone with basic analytical skills will produce
the same skeletal list from the reference text.
It's impossible to derive any other ordered list
than that which I post.

First Manilius orders white complexions from the
most light to the least light (in lines 715-22)
- Germania
- Gallia
- Hispania
- Romanis
- Graecia
- Syriam.

Then Manilius' order of black complexions from the most
dark to the least dark are (as in lines 723-730)

- Aethiopes
- India
- Aegyptia
- Afrorum
- Mauretania.

Manilius did the above after announcing the fact of
variation in the one human race, its colours being
his primary consideration of human anatomy (opening
lines 711-714).

Manilius made a hierarchy. He wasn't random in the least. He starts from Hyperborean to Mediterranean and concludes with Tropical to Mediterranean. This is the Graeco-Islamic zone system of lands and peoples under the Sun through the Zodiac.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

Interesting thing is this Greco-Latin idea of
black-white south north dichotomy is pervasive.

I think the janiform ceramics introduces the
concept and in a sense is seen in Manilius:


_____________________________ Aethiopes Germania
_________________________________ India Gallia
______________________________ Aegyptia Hispania
_______________________________ Afrorum Romanis
_____________________________ Mauretani Graecia

_____________________________________ Syriam


View the parabola of the Mediterranean lands with Syriam
at the vertex, southerns facing left, northerns facing right.

Manilius lists Syriam among whites/lights/northerners and
comments on the character of Syriam's hair so unlike the others.

Black-white dichotomy also appears more directly in other literary sources.
It's usually done with any one people from each of the two major colours.

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Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:


But remember Antalas cited evidence showing that both Nubians and Mauritanians are skeletally and genetically North Africans not Sub-Saharan Negroes.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

Manilius composed a hierarchy of the white and black peoples known in his day by descending intensity of pallor or color in lines 711-730 of his Astronomicon as below.

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quote:

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711-714
Therefore, for this reason, the human race is arranged into various laws and various forms, and nations are shaped with their own distinct colors. They are marked by laws joined through their limbs and by an equal material in a private compact."

Lines 715-722:

Germany, rising through its vast childbirth, is yellow; Gaul is less tainted with neighboring blush; Spain contracts its solid limbs with a rougher nature. Mars, the father of the Roman city, assumes Roman countenance, and Venus, mingling with Mars, well tempers their limbs; Greece, subtle, presents colored nations, a gymnasium with a face and strong wrestling; and they of Syria display twisted hair.

723-730:
The Ethiopians stain the world and shape nations with darkness, pouring over the races of men; India produces less sunburned people; and Egypt, floating on the Nile, more gently tinges bodies with its watery fields, now closer; and it moderates the middle course. Phoebus dries out peoples with the sandy dust of African lands and Mauretania itself bears the title and name of its own color.

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Posts: 43042 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Firewall:
metatron vs kuelimika again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qDjP4W5h98
Grassy Sea

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Posts: 43042 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Firewall:
metatron vs kuelimika again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qDjP4W5h98
Grassy Sea

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that's somebody commenting on it

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Posts: 2586 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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1:07:14
...everything I say at a scholarly level I don't think it's correct to try and insinuate or put into people's minds the idea that I have some sort of racist approach to this that is really out of place there is zero racism in my mind zero because as a religious and Christian man we're all children of God

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Posts: 2789 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Manilius in lines 711-730 of Astronomicon does not mention black or white in Latin or English
The word "black" does not even appear in the book at all.
and a description of various groups' skin color should not be described as a hierarchy.
Yet you post this year after year. You could just post the English or English and Latin translation
and make your own remarks but you quote him in order that he has to do the word of defending this
modern projected racial interpretation not you.

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Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb]
Manilius in lines 711-730 of Astronomicon does not mention black or white in Latin or English
The word "black" does not even appear in the book at all.
and a description of various groups' skin color should not be described as a hierarchy.
Yet you post this year after year. You could just post the English or English and Latin translation
and make your own remarks but you quote him in order that he has to do the word of defending this
modern projected racial interpretation not you.

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No! Year after year you keep repeating this same straw doll! Nobody said Manilius called anyone 'black' or 'white'.

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

Manlius divides the nations of the world into black and white races

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no, that's clear bullshit, it's time to let go of that after years



Manlius describes the skin tones of different ethnicities


- HE DOES NOT talk about a dividing line

- He does not mention "black" or "white"

He does not mirror the American system grouping or race proxies "northern nations" vs "southern nations"

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the land of Egypt, flooded by the Nile, darkens bodies more mildly owing to the inundation of its fields:
it is a country nearer to us and its moderate climate imparts a medium tone.

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Posts: 43042 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:


Hence why the label of BLACK was the general label of North Africans NOT blonde! LOL

This is why even racist anthropologist Carleton Coon designated North Africans as predominantly "melanochroi" and not "Aryan" which he saw as alien to Africa.



And why Coon considered this Shluh Berber representing a "gracile Mediterranean type" as the true indigenous type of Northwest Africa.

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The Origin of Races
by Carleton S. Coon

Page 588

To begin with, Africa is not the home of one subspecies but of two. The Bushmen evolved there as well as the Congoids — Negroes and Pygmies. The Caucasoids of North Africa, Berbers and Arabs, are late arrivals. When the southern Mongoloids were invading southeast Asia and Indonesia,
the ancestors of the Berbers invaded North Africa, pushing the earlier inhabitants southward, just as the Australoids were crowded eastward and southward over Wallace’s Line into their present home.

Page 604

The Mouillian culture lasted well into the post-Pleistocene period, and its most characteristic physical type — stocky, broadfaced, and snub-nosed — may still be seen among individual Berbers living in relatively inaccessible regions along the Mediterranean coast, particularly in Kabylia and the Moroccan Rif. As late as the time of the Spanish conquest of the Canary Islands, during the fifteenth century a.d., some of the native Canarians, called Guanches, especially those living on Tenerife and Gran


https://archive.org/details/B-001-001-289/page/588/mode/2up?q=berbers

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Coon has many more remarks on Berbers in his earlier 1939 book 'The Races Of Europe"

https://archive.org/details/racesofeurope031695mbp/page/n15/mode/2up?q=berbers

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Also I noticed this even earlier piece from 1931, Tribes of the Rif

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015020847656&view=1up&seq=30

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He may have used that map with "Melanchroi" on it but I didn't see Coon using that in the text of these book. The term is attributed to Thomas Huxley

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http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/SM3/GeoDis.ht

On the Geographical Distribution of the Chief Modifications of Mankind
Journal of the Ethnological Society of London (1870)
Scientific Memoirs III

The four great groups of mankind, the areas of which have now been defined, occupy the whole world, with the exception of western and southern Europe, cis-Saharal Africa, Asia Minor, Syria, Arabia, Persia, and Hindostan. In these regions are found, more or less mixed with Xanthochroi and Mongoloids, and extending to a greater or less distance into the conterminous Xanthochroic, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Australioid areas, the men whom I have termed Melanchroi, or dark whites. Under its best form this type is exhibited by many Irishmen, Welshmen, and Bretons, by Spaniards, South Italians, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, and high-caste Brahmins. A man of this group may, in point of physical beauty and intellectual energy, be the equal of the best of the Xanthochroi: but he presents a great contrast, in other respects, to the latter type; for the skin, though clear and transparent, is of a more or less brown hue, deepening to olive, the hair, fine and wavy, is black, and the eyes are of a like hue. The average stature, however, is ordinarily lower than in the Xanthochroic type, and the make of the frame is usually lighter.In Hindostan the Melanochroi pass by innumerable gradations into the Australioid type of the Dekhan, while in Europe they shade off by endless varieties of intermixture into the Xanthochroi.

I have great doubts if the Melanochroi are to be regarded as a primitive modification of mankind in the sense in which that term applies to the Australioids, Negroids, Mongoloids, and Xanthochroi. On the contrary, I am much disposed to think that the Melanochroi are the result of an intermixture between the Xanthochroi and the Australioids. It is to the Xanthochroi and Melanochroi, taken together, that the absurd denomination of "Caucasian" is usually applied.



III. The Xanthochroic Type (No. 6).

A third extremely well-defined type of mankind is exhibited by the greater part of the population of Central Europe. These are the Xanthochroi, or fair whites. They are of tall stature and have the skin almost colourless, and so delicate that the blood really shows through it. The eyes are blue or grey; the hair light, ranging from straw-colour to red or chestnut; the beard and body-hair abundant. The skull presents all varieties of forms, from extreme dolichocephaly to extreme brachycephaly. On the south and west this type comes into contact and mixes with the "Melanochroi," or "dark whites," while on the north and east it becomes mingled with the people of Mongoloid type, who bound it on that side. Its extreme north-west limit is Iceland; its southwest limit the Canary Islands; its south border lies in Africa north of the Sahara, in Syria, and Northern Arabia; its south-eastern limit is Hindostan; while in a northeasterly direction traces of it have been observed as far eastward as the Yenisei. I have not ventured, however, to draw the red bars which indicate the existence of this type, alongside of another, so far to the east, as one really knows very little about the people of Central Asia.

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Posts: 43042 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

No, that's clear bullshit, it's time to let go of that after years


Manlius describes the skin tones of different ethnicities


- HE DOES NOT talk about a dividing line

- He does not mention "black" or "white"

He does not mirror the American system grouping or race proxies "northern nations" vs "southern nations"

quote:

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the land of Egypt, flooded by the Nile, darkens bodies more mildly owing to the inundation of its fields:
it is a country nearer to us and its moderate climate imparts a medium tone.

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Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:


Of course Manilius didn't say anything about a "dividing line", but he clearly lists two groups-- peoples north of the Mediterranean and peoples south of the Mediterranean.

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
the Mediterranean Sea being the axis

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Originally posted by Tukuler:

Interesting thing is this Greco-Latin idea of
black-white south north dichotomy is pervasive.

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Posts: 43042 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged |