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On the net there have been some discussions about the color label of the South African singer Tyla. She labels herself as "coloured". When she came to USA some African Americans refused to call her "coloured" since they think it is a slur. So many South Africans came online and explained that coloured is a designation of people in South Africa who are of mixed decent with Asians, Black and White. They thought it was rather arrogant for Black Americans to try to redefine her identity just because she wants to work in USA.
quote:Tyla’s racial identity: South African singer sparks culture war
By Danai Nesta Kupemba, BBC News
Caught in a culture war, South Africa's hottest music sensation Tyla is in the crossfire of an online debate over the word she uses to describe her racial identity - "coloured".
Before her rise to fame, the 21-year-old made a video proudly talking about her mixed-raced heritage on TikTok.
In it she slicks her coily hair into Bantu knots, while donning a traditional beaded necklace, with the words, "I am a coloured South African" splashed across the clip like a badge of honour.
The star says this means that she "comes from a lot of different cultures".
It is a simple video intended to share a part of herself with her audience. But instead, her racial identity has stoked flames across the internet, most notably, in the US.
Americans see the word as a slur, unlike Tyla's South African community, who see it as a part of their culture. In South Africa, it is a distinct identity that is officially recognised.
One US user on X, formerly known as Twitter, said: "We are not gonna call her coloured here and if she personally demands it, her career will end before it begins.
"She's trying to cross over into an American market, she won't be able to use that word here, she can use it somewhere else though."
In the US, the word harks back to the Jim Crow era, when segregationist laws were instituted in the southern states to oppress black Americans after slavery was banned.
Water fountains, toilets and bus seats were marked "whites only" or "colored only".
quote:South Africa radio host Carissa Cupido, who grew up in the predominantly coloured area of Mitchell Plains in Cape Town, says that despite the fact that the classification was imposed on her, she has "embraced, accepted and celebrated" being coloured.
Ms Cupido interviewed Tyla two years ago, and says her accent, natural hair and energy are "tangibly coloured".
Seeing Tyla's meteoric rise to fame has given her goose bumps, she adds. ------------- Ms Cupido's voice booms with joy when discussing Tyla's success, but her tone shifts to annoyance at the scrutiny around the star's identity.
"I find it so disrespectful. Do not undermine someone's way of life, just because you do not understand it," she says.
People who disregard Tyla's heritage, she says, are also "erasing and dismissing my existence and my family's existence, and the way we understand, perceive and navigate the world".
Ms Dooms agrees and says that even before the Tyla controversy, defending her community had been a constant: "We are fighting for the legitimacy of what we have built. What we have created, the culture we have made."
To those in America targeting Tyla, she says: "To have the audacity to question somebody's self-identification and replace it with your own - that's ridiculous. You are not progressive."
quote:It is a simple video intended to share a part of herself with her audience. But instead, her racial identity has stoked flames across the internet, most notably, in the US.
Lol @ the US. What's really going on w/ race over there?
BS aside, I like her look. I won't be looking her up, yet (other than her pics ). I'll look her up when I come across her when actual music is playing that I like; not controversy or social media stuff (which is how I do with all these new generation artists).
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Yes, here in the States, the socially acceptable term is "of color" (as in "people of color" or "woman of color") rather than "colored". I understand why it might confuse some people outside the country though.
Still, she could simply call herself "multiracial" when talking to US audiences.
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: Yes, here in the States, the socially acceptable term is "of color" (as in "people of color" or "woman of color") rather than "colored". I understand why it might confuse some people outside the country though.
Still, she could simply call herself "multiracial" when talking to US audiences.
Colored in SA is a loaded term though, as there are some people there who are mixed in some fashion but not considered colored ( *Cough* Doja Cat). And in the US, colored was simply a derogatory term for what they called black people today (people of African Decent). I don't think such a reality is unknown to South Africans which is why South Africans tend to clear up what they mean by it when used talking to an American. This situation (OP) kinda seems like a non issue though, for knowledgeable people on both sides would see that the terms black or colored is an accurate social description based on context.
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quote:It is a simple video intended to share a part of herself with her audience. But instead, her racial identity has stoked flames across the internet, most notably, in the US.
Lol @ the US. What's really going on w/ race over there?
BS aside, I like her look. I won't be looking her up, yet (other than her pics ). I'll look her up when I come across her when actual music is playing that I like; not controversy or social media stuff (which is how I do with all these new generation artists).
Nothing is going on with "race" over here. And as a person who has been to South Africa a dozen times I agree with Elmaestro that 'Coloured" is a loaded term in that it can mean literally ANYTHING including people who do not even have African admixture. Heck some people in South Africa who are majority African are still considered "Coloured" including some modern Khoisans. With the USA we don't have a "mixed class"(which imo in a way benefited the Black community. That's another discussion), and mulattos are usually absorbed by either Black or White communities. Which in my opinion is the REAL REASON for the confusion.
But all in all a way a South African identifies him/herself has nothing to do with us American descendants of slaves who I feel have a racial or ethnic identifiers thats mostly unique to us. Not sure why this would spark a "culture war."
On another note this thread seems like another sneak diss to Black Americans. And most Black Americans in real life don't even care about this.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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Doing some more digging this Tyla chick is CLEARLY trying to market towards Black Americans(especially Black women), are on OUR platforms and have been doing songs with BLACK AMERICAN artists like Travis Scott and others. Why isn't trying to get a cosign with non-Black Americans in the USA?
Edit:
It was actually a Nigerian/Trinidadian who started all of this..
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:It is a simple video intended to share a part of herself with her audience. But instead, her racial identity has stoked flames across the internet, most notably, in the US.
Lol @ the US. What's really going on w/ race over there?
BS aside, I like her look. I won't be looking her up, yet (other than her pics ). I'll look her up when I come across her when actual music is playing that I like; not controversy or social media stuff (which is how I do with all these new generation artists).
Nothing is going on with "race" over here. And as a person who has been to South Africa a dozen times I agree with Elmaestro that 'Coloured" is a loaded term in that it can mean literally ANYTHING including people who do not even have African admixture. Heck some people in South Africa who are majority African are still considered "Coloured" including some modern Khoisans. With the USA we don't have a "mixed class"(which imo in a way benefited the Black community. That's another discussion), and mulattos are usually absorbed by either Black or White communities. Which in my opinion is the REAL REASON for the confusion.
But all in all a way a South African identifies him/herself has nothing to do with us American descendants of slaves who I feel have a racial or ethnic identifiers thats mostly unique to us. Not sure why this would spark a "culture war."
On another note this thread seems like another sneak diss to Black Americans. And most Black Americans in real life don't even care about this.
I was not going to post to this topic anymore because I could already see where this was going. To understand why US race relations news and controveries look the way it does to non-Americans, you have to live outside of the US and look at the US news from there. I've seen enough vids about Americans expats saying Europe and parts of Asia are a breath of fresh air, in many ways (including race relations), to know this is not some sort of bias or selectiveness in news reporting.
I try to stay away from discussions like this that tend to open the floodgates of the ignants of the world (e.g. the controversy of Jada's Cleopatra casting), but seeing inner Africans get dragged into this was just one step too far for me.
This case seems awfully similar to Tiger Woods not claiming black, which has also become a cultural thing. I agree that the motives of the thread's OP seem part of a pattern, but as long as he's not breaking rules or bringing this into legitimate threads, or as long as he's not treating issues in a biased way, I don't have a problem with him holding the mirror to ES.
And BTW, yes, certain Caribbeans have been getting on my nerves too. That Grenadian guy from House of the Dragon said some bs about "we've always been part of the nobility in the British Isles" to justify playing a controversial role is one recent example.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I was not going to post to this topic anymore because I could already see where this was going. To understand why US race relations news and controveries look the way it does to non-Americans, you have to live outside of the US and look at the US news from there. I've seen enough vids about Americans expats saying Europe and parts of Asia are a breath of fresh air, in many ways (including race relations), to know this is not some sort of bias or selectiveness in news reporting.
Not sure what this point has to do with Tyla and Black Americans supposedly "erasing" her "identity"? The American expats in question are most likely referring to how racist the USA is. Either way South Africa(I been there and outside the USA many times) has there own version of a racial system(no matter how much they spam that rainbow nation motif), but point is this Tyla person willingly went to the USA and used a term i.e "coloured" that has a negative history in the USA. I agree with BrandonP that "multiracial" would be better. Yes, USA is a very racist country(so is SA btw) but we are "aware" of who is mixed and who is not.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I try to stay away from discussions like this that tend to open the floodgates of the ignants of the world (e.g. the controversy of Jada's Cleopatra casting), but seeing inner Africans get dragged into this was just one step too far for me.
Those "inner Africans" are the ones who come into our spaces. Americans especially Black Americans are NOT going into their spaces.The company promoting this Tyla person for some reason is marketing her to Black American audiences. On OUR platforms and have been doing songs with BLACK AMERICAN artists like Travis Scott and others, and has been using "Black" aesthetics. Tbh that is how it all started. And like I said it wasn't even a Black American who started all of this by claiming she is Black and not coloured. Lastly with this Tyla thing. People(not YOU) claiming we are trying to erase other cultures. But then worldly foreigners(especially inner Africans) talk about how “you're all just Americans to us” while at the same time want us to know the difference between their 1000 ethnic groups while not even acknowledging our regional differences(which is very real). Now that's one step too far for me.
Either way this chick went to AMERICA with South African terminology. What did she or her backers expect?
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
This case seems awfully similar to Tiger Woods not claiming black, which has also become a cultural thing.
Most the outrage came from Tiger Woods once identifying as Black but then switching it up especially having a history of racism in golfing(especially in the USA). This chick is not from the USA, and I hardly see MANY Black Americans arguing over her identity. Most confusion seems to be about her labeling herself "coloured." Us Black Americans are aware of "multiracial" or "biracial" people. If she would've said "biracial" many people in America would grasp what she meant. I'm sorry but I'm getting sick and tired of the "big bad race obsessed Black Americans" wanting to "erase other people's identities." While others do the same to us(but thats another story). Again not saying you. But no... This is not comparable to Tiger Woods.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I agree that the motives of the thread's OP seem part of a pattern, but as long as he's not breaking rules or bringing this into legitimate threads, or as long as he's not treating issues in a biased way, I don't have a problem with him holding the mirror to ES.
No he/she is not breaking any rules but I find his/her obsession in finding any "gotchas" on Black Americans(a person who lives in Europe) to be weird as hell. But I don't care what anyone says... But as a traveler I find America's racial classification more straightforward than most countries. The same countries who call America "race obsessed"(USA is racist aint denying that) be lowkey be having caste systems.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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I'm not going to get involved in the Afro-Diasporan wars, but...
quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: The same countries who call America "race obsessed"(USA is racist aint denying that) be lowkey be having caste systems.
I can vouch from anecdotal experience that a lot of Europeans' takes on matters of race and ethnicity, not to mention immigrants into their countries, aren't that much different from those of our White Republicans. They may give the US a hard time for being racist, and rightly so, but they're often chucking their stones from a glass house. No wonder the far right has been undergoing a resurgence throughout Europe, much like the MAGA-ism we have here.
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: I'm not going to get involved in the Afro-Diasporan wars, but...
quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: The same countries who call America "race obsessed"(USA is racist aint denying that) be lowkey be having caste systems.
I can vouch from anecdotal experience that a lot of Europeans' takes on matters of race and ethnicity, not to mention immigrants into their countries, aren't that much different from those of our White Republicans. They may give the US a hard time for being racist, and rightly so, but they're often chucking their stones from a glass house. No wonder the far right has been undergoing a resurgence throughout Europe, much like the MAGA-ism we have here.
This is not a "diaspora war" Brandon. We're having a discussion. But either way agreed.
But going back to racial classifications... I rather USA style racial classification than the wonky shit that is seen in Latin America(been there many times and seen it first hand) that not only creates barrier classes against Blacks and Indigenous but is a reverse one drop rule essentially.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I was not going to post to this topic anymore because I could already see where this was going. To understand why US race relations news and controveries look the way it does to non-Americans, you have to live outside of the US and look at the US news from there. I've seen enough vids about Americans expats saying Europe and parts of Asia are a breath of fresh air, in many ways (including race relations), to know this is not some sort of bias or selectiveness in news reporting.
Not sure what this point has to do with Tyla and Black Americans supposedly "erasing" her "identity"? The American expats in question are most likely referring to how racist the USA is. Either way South Africa(I been there and outside the USA many times) has there own version of a racial system(no matter how much they spam that rainbow nation motif), but point is this Tyla person willingly went to the USA and used a term i.e "coloured" that has a negative history in the USA. I agree with BrandonP that "multiracial" would be better. Yes, USA is a very racist country(so is SA btw) but we are "aware" of who is mixed and who is not.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I try to stay away from discussions like this that tend to open the floodgates of the ignants of the world (e.g. the controversy of Jada's Cleopatra casting), but seeing inner Africans get dragged into this was just one step too far for me.
Those "inner Africans" are the ones who come into our spaces. Americans especially Black Americans are NOT going into their spaces.The company promoting this Tyla person for some reason is marketing her to Black American audiences. On OUR platforms and have been doing songs with BLACK AMERICAN artists like Travis Scott and others, and has been using "Black" aesthetics. Tbh that is how it all started. And like I said it wasn't even a Black American who started all of this by claiming she is Black and not coloured. Lastly with this Tyla thing. People(not YOU) claiming we are trying to erase other cultures. But then worldly foreigners(especially inner Africans) talk about how “you're all just Americans to us” while at the same time want us to know the difference between their 1000 ethnic groups while not even acknowledging our regional differences(which is very real). Now that's one step too far for me.
Either way this chick went to AMERICA with South African terminology. What did she or her backers expect?
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
This case seems awfully similar to Tiger Woods not claiming black, which has also become a cultural thing.
Most the outrage came from Tiger Woods once identifying as Black but then switching it up especially having a history of racism in golfing(especially in the USA). This chick is not from the USA, and I hardly see MANY Black Americans arguing over her identity. Most confusion seems to be about her labeling herself "coloured." Us Black Americans are aware of "multiracial" or "biracial" people. If she would've said "biracial" many people in America would grasp what she meant. I'm sorry but I'm getting sick and tired of the "big bad race obsessed Black Americans" wanting to "erase other people's identities." While others do the same to us(but thats another story). Again not saying you. But no... This is not comparable to Tiger Woods.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I agree that the motives of the thread's OP seem part of a pattern, but as long as he's not breaking rules or bringing this into legitimate threads, or as long as he's not treating issues in a biased way, I don't have a problem with him holding the mirror to ES.
No he/she is not breaking any rules but I find his/her obsession in finding any "gotchas" on Black Americans(a person who lives in Europe) to be weird as hell. But I don't care what anyone says... But as a traveler I find America's racial classification more straightforward than most countries. The same countries who call America "race obsessed"(USA is racist aint denying that) be lowkey be having caste systems.
Let's just agree to disagree.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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^The perspective of someone like Brada Anansi (veteran poster and New Yorker IIRC, who has lived in Japan for many years) would be interesting, as far as if he thinks American race relations are unusual for western/'1st world' standards.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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Japan isnt the West tbh. And outside of the one drop rule(which many ppl over exaggerate its flaws. The ODR is really an Black American ETHNIC identifier but that’s another story) there is nothing really unusual about American racial identity. Its just that the old world(Europe, Africa, etc) go by ethnicity first which makes sense but they are aware that they are Black or White or whatever from my travels. But notice western countries that were colonies(Australia, New Zealand, etc) have classification similar to USA. Again from my travels the only thing people find taboo is the ODR.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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I would say these threads that have been made from Jada's Netflix show to Kevin Hart and Nick Cannon, will tell anyone looking in from the outside that race relations in the US are perpetually volatile and a ticking time bomb waiting to surface underneath every social interaction. To some extent, this is true everywhere, due to human nature, but in the US it's through the roof, otherwise Archaeo, Antalas and others would not be able to have a field day with American news.
I love the US for its beautiful landscapes and national parks, among other things. If I'd ever visit, I would probably stay in the cut.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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And a common exaggeration from many non-Americans lol. There are many nuances that arent even addressed and the USA as a country is culturally diverse. There is no “ticking time bomb” here in NY or any Democratic state. Hell even in some Republican states. Those two posters have a “field day” because like most non-Americans generalize American culture while never stepping foot in the USA. Either way not sure how this addresses USA racial classifications or Black Americans “forcing their Blackness” on others. Also not sure how Jadas show(which was created by a WW) on Cleopatra.
I can point to WORSE ethnic/racial time bombs in Europe especially with more and more migrants coming particularly to countries like italy like BrandonP mentioned.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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We have a rather different history regarding ethnic and racial relations here. Black people were until the 1960s a so small minority that they were nearly non existent. So when some Black person were seen people stared extra much. The oldest racial or ethnical antagonisms were more against Sami and Roma people. In old times there were special laws and directives concerning them. In the 1960s more immigrants came here but most were from other European countries. In the 1970s 1980s we saw immigrants from South America and also from Palestine, Lebanon, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Iran and Iraq. In the 1990s more immigrants arrived and the antagonisms increased. New groups came in the 2000s like Somalis and people from Afghanistan.
Some areas in the outskirts of the bigger cities have become rather segregated and many immigrants have a hard time to find jobs and to become a part of the majority society. As in many other European countries increased criminality is often blamed on the immigrants. So there is a more tensed society today than during the time of our parents or grandparents.
So there are tensions and both Black immigrants (also second and third generations) and other non European immigrants find it harder to get jobs and now and then gets discriminated against also in other contexts.
As mentioned Black people in Sweden was a rarity in old times. Between ca 1750 and early 1900s maybe not more than 100 Black persons lived in Sweden totally. Sweden had a colony in the West Indies were it held slaves. But in Sweden itself Black people were often free. Here they were called "Morians" but the slaves on St Barth were called "negroes".
So concerning Black people living in Sweden there has never been any special laws or regulations, and they were free to have any job or marry who they wanted. Also they have not been specially registered in censuses or similar official documents. The only thing that was registered was if people were born in other countries, which applied to all immigrants.
There are some curious exceptions though like one man in the late 1800s. About him one can in the old records learn where he was born, where he lived, and that he was married. One can also learn that his occupation was "negro", a somewhat odd professional title.
A group Black immigrants that was specially noticed were African American men in the late 1960s and early 1970s who moved here to avoid the Vietnam war. They were nearly seen as heroes here since at that time many Swedes protested against that war. Some of the Americans remained here in Sweden, and I have met a couple of them and also their children.
Concerning Sweden and USA, many Swedes have relatives there since in the 19th and 20th centuries more than one million Swedes emigrated there. Many have also visted relatives there. And still many go there to work shorter or longer periods.
Sweden had once a colony in what is today Delaware, Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
Still there are contacts between Sweden and members of the Lenape nation who were closest neihgbours to the colony. I have been in contact with some of them.
About Africans and Black Americans it seems some Africans also here have some negative views of African Americans. Already many years ago I heard some Eritreans who had lived in USA talk badly about Black Americans. Here we have overall a rather ambivalent view of USA and Americans both Black and white. It is some kind of love-hate relationship. But whether we like it or not, America is in many ways a part of Swedish history.
Today there are some research being conducted about Black peoples history in Sweden and some books have been released. There have also been some museum exhibition.
One book is Black in Sweden:
quote:BLACK IN SWEDEN
Authors Cecilia Sylvan and Patrick Gibson
In times of xenophobia, it is especially important to show the history we have in common with people who came here from other cultures and with a different skin color.
This is an important book, the first book for a general audience about black history in Sweden.
Black in Sweden highlights how black people and phenomena have been presented, received and influenced Sweden and the Swedes. The book covers several aspects like, among other things, music, art, literature, theatre, advertising and toys.
quote: Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: I can point to WORSE ethnic/racial time bombs in Europe especially with more and more migrants coming particularly to countries like italy like BrandonP mentioned.
The difference is I will own up to West European or Caribbean or African failings (where accurate) and don't really care much either way. I'm indifferent to politics and I have emancipated myself enough to not have to feel like I have to defend or shield any country or society or group.
Having said that, the US is in a league of its own as far as having ruined race relations and prospects. And this is mirrored in the statistics, including some that have the US ranked with developing countries, as opposed to the major so-called 1st world countries.
I'm going to leave it at this because on matters like this, I rather hear from people who have lived in both places long enough to understand how they work.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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^I can own up to USA failings too. But my thing is that I find it funny that many people assume its only the USA with the worst racial relations when I read/heard many horror stories around the world including in Europe. But I can also add that the USA unlike most developed countries is more ethnically diverse and less homogenous than many European countries which can play a factor. And what statistics are we talking about? Like I said the USA is a very big country with each region or state being politically and culturally different in terms of race relations.
Anyways we can agree-disagree. I just wanna ensure you that there is NO hard feelings. Its just that I been to0 places like Brasil and yea... USA is NOT touching a country like Brasil in screwed up racial relations.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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Also I just wanna elaborate that as an admin ALL VIEWS are welcomed. Even if I find certain posters agendas to be annoying. Just as long as you're not being racist. Now other mods/admins have differing opinions. But me? Disagreements are okay.
Just wanna make that EXTRA clear. lol.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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I should also mention that citizens of color make up a larger proportion of the US population than most other European countries. If race really is a more prominent topic over here than there, that would be a logical reason why.
I expect that, once more immigrants from the Global South settle in European nations, then not only will racial and cultural issues play an even more prominent role in those countries' politics (immigration already appears to be a hot-button issue over there), but their White conservatives are going to start pushing for cuts to social spending that would otherwise disproportionately benefit the new racial minorities. Then Europe's political and socioeconomic landscape, especially the distribution of wealth and standards of living, is going to look a lot more like that of the US. In which case, the White Europeans would have far less grounds to claim moral superiority to their US counterparts.
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: I should also mention that citizens of color make up a larger proportion of the US population than most other European countries. If race really is a more prominent topic over here than there, that would be a logical reason why.
I expect that, once more immigrants from the Global South settle in European nations, then not only will racial and cultural issues play an even more prominent role in those countries' politics (immigration already appears to be a hot-button issue over there), but their White conservatives are going to start pushing for cuts to social spending that would otherwise disproportionately benefit the new racial minorities. Then Europe's political and socioeconomic landscape, especially the distribution of wealth and standards of living, is going to look a lot more like that of the US. In which case, the White Europeans would have far less grounds to claim moral superiority to their US counterparts.
And if I am not mistaken... Blacks are more disenfranchised in Europe than here in USA. But yes, like you said the USA has a much, much bigger non-White and especially Black population compared to Europe which is mostly homogenous. The Black population here in the USA is literally more than MOST European countries for context... Based on some statistics its equal to SPAIN.
But yea Europe as a collective really hasn't been "tested."
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: ^I can own up to USA failings too. But my thing is that I find it funny that many people assume its only the USA with the worst racial relations when I read/heard many horror stories around the world including in Europe. But I can also add that the USA unlike most developed countries is more ethnically diverse and less homogenous than many European countries which can play a factor. And what statistics are we talking about? Like I said the USA is a very big country with each region or state being politically and culturally different in terms of race relations.
Anyways we can agree-disagree. I just wanna ensure you that there is NO hard feelings. Its just that I been to0 places like Brasil and yea... USA is NOT touching a country like Brasil in screwed up racial relations.
See the US' position on the global inclusiveness index.
But you can google a combination of keywords that force these types of results, by searching phrases like "US ranking developing countries index". This will also show how the US fares in different areas of life, compared to similar countries, like G7 countries.
Although I want to say that I'm not basing my comments on these statistics. Statistics cannot tell you about absurdities that sound like they come out of a movie, like cops taking Charleston black church shooter for a hamburger, or cops letting Dahmer take a naked and obviously violated Asian boy back to his house, or California democrat having a drugged and dead body of a black male in his house, on two different occasions, or black kids getting shot after ringing the wrong doorbell or being in someone's yard, or cops killing Sean Bell and Diallo with overkill of 50 bullets or whatever the number was in both cases.
These things are difficult to measure in statistics, but will be well known to anyone who knows about the US as part of watching international news and just taking in different information.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: I should also mention that citizens of color make up a larger proportion of the US population than most other European countries. If race really is a more prominent topic over here than there, that would be a logical reason why.
I expect that, once more immigrants from the Global South settle in European nations, then not only will racial and cultural issues play an even more prominent role in those countries' politics (immigration already appears to be a hot-button issue over there), but their White conservatives are going to start pushing for cuts to social spending that would otherwise disproportionately benefit the new racial minorities. Then Europe's political and socioeconomic landscape, especially the distribution of wealth and standards of living, is going to look a lot more like that of the US. In which case, the White Europeans would have far less grounds to claim moral superiority to their US counterparts.
I agree, but I would probably side with Europeans in some of those cases. I'm a member of a European country by nationality, but not by ethnicity. At best the country I live in owes me something as part of the wealth they got off my ancestors' backs, but they don't owe other immigrants anything beyond humane treatment of refugees (the way I see it, economic migrants or even refugees aren't automatically entitled to get what they want beyond what I've just mentioned).
The US has a different history, as we all know, and ancestors of African Americans have been there from the beginnings of modern America, even as members of Columbus' crew.
The US is just a different political country that was designed to be what it is today. The US doesn't have a left wing party, for instance. Both the democrats and republicans are right wing by European standards. Not saying right wing is bad and left wing is good (I don't really care about politics). But I'm saying there is no balance, and that was on purpose.
Asked for a profile by New York Magazine about what role she might play as a member of Congress should Biden capture the White House, the freshman House Democrat from New York responded with a groan.
quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: ^I can own up to USA failings too. But my thing is that I find it funny that many people assume its only the USA with the worst racial relations when I read/heard many horror stories around the world including in Europe. But I can also add that the USA unlike most developed countries is more ethnically diverse and less homogenous than many European countries which can play a factor. And what statistics are we talking about? Like I said the USA is a very big country with each region or state being politically and culturally different in terms of race relations.
Anyways we can agree-disagree. I just wanna ensure you that there is NO hard feelings. Its just that I been to0 places like Brasil and yea... USA is NOT touching a country like Brasil in screwed up racial relations.
See the US' position on the global inclusiveness index.
But you can google a combination of keywords that force these types of results, by searching phrases like "US ranking developing countries index". This will also show how the US fares in different areas of life, compared to similar countries, like G7 countries.
Although I want to say that I'm not basing my comments on these statistics. Statistics cannot tell you about absurdities that sound like they come out of a movie, like cops taking Charleston black church shooter for a hamburger, or cops letting Dahmer take a naked and obviously violated Asian boy back to his house, or California democrat having a drugged and dead body of a black male in his house, on two different occasions, or black kids getting shot after ringing the wrong doorbell or being in someone's yard, or cops killing Sean Bell and Diallo with overkill of 50 bullets or whatever the number was in both cases.
These things are difficult to measure in statistics, but will be well known to anyone who knows about the US as part of watching international news and just taking in different information.
Certainly not denying those things have happened in the USA. But mine and BrandonP point is that the USA is HUGE(3rd or 4th largest), with third largest population and also politically diverse with a very hyper visible media presence(I'll get to that later) but I want to address the article. Your article seems to over other issues besides just racial like gender. And list Northern Europe with the best inclusion(yet not the rest of Europe). Anyways from the article:
quote:Within the U.S., Hawaii, Maryland and Vermont ranked as the three most inclusive states. Louisiana, followed by Mississippi and Alabama, were ranked lowest in terms of inclusiveness, according to the index. Notably, Florida — which has been in the spotlight for its efforts to restrict LGBTQ protections and gender-affirming care — ranks 16th in the country for inclusiveness, just above New York and Oregon, which are 17th and 20th respectively.
Like I(and BrandonP) said the USA is politically diverse and actually has a bigger non-White population than most of Europe. Not denying what you posted its true that those things have happened but giving context. Other countries have worst situations where minorities are treated its just that USA has a very big media. Take Brasil for instance(where I also been)... Where MORE Blacks are killed by police than in the USA. https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Brazil-80-of-Killed-by-Police-in-Rio-de-Janeiro-2019-Were-Black-20200208-0012.html
Again not denying the USA aint shit but... There are different contexts we have to take in account.
Anyways I'm going to agree-disagree.
Edit: And while the USA aint shit the USA actually has COLLECTIVE Black Middle classes in certain regions like Prince County or Atlanta metro area. I personally have not seen those type of enclaves in other developed nations with Black people. Which again can be due to USA having a bigger non-White population.
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^Unless I'm missing something, you're quoting the general inclusiveness statistic. The relevant statistic is the 'racial inclusion' statistic, which is concerned with race (not gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.). The article says the US ranks 118th in the world and 129 countries were considered. But yeah let's agree to disagree.
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Race problems are worse in Latin America where they totally deny it and proclaim to have racial "democracies." Its more perception than reality in the USA.
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I know about the ugly police brutality news coming out of Brazil. But I don't know how Brazil (or other Latin American countries) compares to the US in terms of race problems in general, so I can't speak on that.
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As a person who has been to Latin America a bunch of times(three countries and soon four), I can agree and confirm what Elijah says. The race relations is definitely worse there. On the surface level it may not seem bad but its definitely worse.
Black and Indignous populations are not only heavily disenfranchised(makes the issues us Black Americans go through seem minor), but go to a majority White area especially in Brasil as a darker skinned person and you will get looks. Unless you have an accent. Only difference is Latin America didn't practice segregation but they(Blacks) are locked out of many opportunities. Had many Black Colombians and Brasilians tell me about. And the police brutality there is APART of the race problem.
And USA does not have color caste systems like Latin America. And again the USA is a very regional country, it really depends on the state...
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quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: As a person who has been to Latin America a bunch of times(three countries and soon four), I can agree and confirm what Elijah says. The race relations is definitely worse there. On the surface level it may not seem bad but its definitely worse.
Black and Indignous populations are not only heavily disenfranchised(makes the issues us Black Americans go through seem minor), but go to a majority White area especially in Brasil as a darker skinned person and you will get looks. Unless you have an accent. Only difference is Latin America didn't practice segregation but they(Blacks) are locked out of many opportunities. Had many Black Colombians and Brasilians tell me about. And the police brutality there is APART of the race problem.
And USA does not have color caste systems like Latin America. And again the USA is a very regional country, it really depends on the state...
It's reflected in the Inclusiveness Index results. When you sort the countries according to 'racial inclusion' (the green column), Brazil (40.58) scores worst than the US (53.95).
By comparison, the country I was born in (The Netherlands) has a score of 95.19....
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The surname Seethal is most commonly used in South Africa, where it is borne by 570 people, or 1 in 95,049. Second most commonly in India, 52 the name Seethal means "Cool" and is of Hindu / Hindi origin.
The similar name with an H the surname Sheetal is most commonly used in India, where it is borne by 1,233 people, or 1 in 622,113.
"Water" reached number one in New Zealand and the top ten in Australia, Denmark, the Netherlands, United Kingdom, South Africa, Ireland, Sweden and United States, where Tyla became the youngest-ever South African and the first South African soloist in 55 years to enter the Billboard Hot 100, following Hugh Masekela's "Grazing in the Grass" in 1968. The song is nominated for Best African Music Performance at the 66th Annual Grammy Awards. ___________________________________________
Coloureds (Afrikaans: Kleurlinge or Bruinmense, lit. 'Brown people') refers to members of multiracial ethnic communities in Southern Africa who may have ancestry from more than one of the various populations inhabiting the region, including African, European, and Asian. South Africa's Coloured people are regarded as having some of the most diverse genetic backgrounds. Because of the vast combination of genetics, different families and individuals within a family may have a variety of different physical features.[7][8]
Coloured was a legally defined racial classification during apartheid referring to anyone not white or not a member of one of the aboriginal groups of Africa on a cultural basis, which effectively largely meant those people of colour not speaking any indigenous languages. [8][9] The term "hotnot" is a derogatory term used to refer to Khoisan people and coloureds in South Africa. The term originated from the Dutch language, where "Hottentot" was used to describe a language spoken by the Khoisan people. It later came to be used as a derogatory term for the people themselves, based on European perceptions of their physical appearance and culture. The term is often used to demean and dehumanize Khoisan and coloured people, perpetuating harmful stereotypes and discrimination against them.[10]
In the Western Cape, a distinctive Cape Coloured and affiliated Cape Malay culture developed. Genetic studies suggest the group has the highest levels of mixed ancestry in the world. Mitochondrial DNA studies have demonstrated that many maternal lines of the Cape Coloured population are descended from African Khoisan women and Xhosa women. In other parts of Southern Africa, people classified as Coloured were usually the descendants of individuals from two distinct ethnicities.
Coloureds are mostly found in the western part of South Africa. In Cape Town, they form 45.4% of the total population, according to the South African National Census of 2011.[11]: 56–59
At least one genetic study indicates that Cape Coloureds have ancestries from the following ethnic groups; not all Coloureds in South Africa had the same ancestry.[25]
● Indigenous Khoisan: (32–43%) ● Indigenous Bantu peoples, chiefly from Southern Africa: (20–36%) ● Peoples from Europe: (21–28%) ● Peoples from South and Southeast Asia: (9–11%) ● Studies also show that coloured also have Xhosa ancestry. ● Coloureds from the Eastern Cape have British, Xhosa and Irish The Malagasy component in the Coloured composite gene pool is itself a blend of Malay and Bantu genetic markers.
This genetic admixture appears to be gender-biased. A majority of maternal genetic material is Khoisan. The Cape Coloured population is descended predominantly from unions of European and European-African males with autochthonous Khoisan females.[15][16]
Coloureds in KwaZulu-Natal tend to be descended from unions between Zulu women and British settlers, and the group includes people with Mauritian and St Helenian ancestry.[20][19]
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quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: The Yellow Men of Central Africa Author(s): Samuel P. Verner Source:American Anthropologist , Jul. - Sep., 1903, New Series, Vol. 5, No. 3 (Jul. - Sep., 1903), pp. 539-544 Published by: Wiley on behalf of the American Anthropological Association Stable URL: http://www.jstor.com/stable/659129
Old and typological, it nonetheless shows that skin color variation in central Africa
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full wikipedia entry on the American word use of "Colored" (rather than the European spelling used in SA " Coloureds" with it's different demographic history)
Colored (or coloured) is a racial descriptor historically used in the United States during the Jim Crow Era to refer to an African American. In many places, it may be considered a slur,[1] though it has taken on a special meaning in Southern Africa referring to a person of mixed Black and White heritage.
Dictionary definitions The word colored (Middle English icoloured) was first used in the 14th century but with a meaning other than race or ethnicity.[3][4] The earliest uses of the term to denote a member of dark-skinned groups of peoples occurred in the second part of the 18th century in reference to South America. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "colored" was first used in this context in 1758 to translate the Spanish term mujeres de color ('colored women', literally 'women of color') in Antonio de Ulloa's A voyage to South America.
The term came in use in the United States during the early 19th century, and it then was adopted by emancipated slaves as a term of racial pride after the end of the American Civil War until it was replaced as a self-designation by Black or African-American during the second part of the 20th century. Due to its use in the Jim Crow era to designate items or places restricted to African Americans, the word colored is now usually considered to be offensive.[4]
The term has historically had multiple connotations. In British usage, the term refers to "a person who is wholly or partly of non-white descent," and its use is generally regarded as antiquated or offensive.[5][6] Other terms are preferable, particularly when referring to a single ethnicity.
United States
Dilapidated hotel sign, Route 80, Statesboro, Georgia. The picture was taken in 1979, after the end of segregation. In the United States, colored was the predominant and preferred term for African Americans in the mid- to late nineteenth century in part because it was accepted by both white and black Americans as more inclusive, covering those of mixed-race ancestry (and, less commonly, Asian Americans and other racial minorities), as well as those who were considered to have "complete Black ancestry".[7] They did not think of themselves as or accept the label African, did not want whites pressuring them to relocate to a colony in Africa, and said they were no more African than white Americans were European. In place of "African" they preferred the term colored, or the more learned and precise Negro. However, the term Negro later fell from favor following the Civil Rights Movement as it was seen as imposed upon the community it described by white people during slavery, and carried connotations of subservience. The term black was preferred during the 1960s by the Black Power movement, as well as radical black nationalists (the Black Muslims and the Black Panthers), pan-Africanists (Stokely Carmichael, leader of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee) and political progressives. "Negro" was still favored as self-descriptive racial term over "black" by a plurality in the late 1960s; however, by the late 1970s and early 1980s, "black" was strongly favored.[7]
NPR reported that the "use of the phrase 'colored people' peaked in books published in 1970." However, some individuals have more recently called for a revival of "African American", or "Afro-American", so as to remove attention to skin color. "Colored people lived in three neighborhoods that were clearly demarcated, as if by ropes or turnstiles", wrote Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr. about growing up in segregated West Virginia in the 1960s. "Welcome to the Colored Zone, a large stretched banner could have said .... Of course, the colored world was not so much a neighborhood as a condition of existence."[11] "For most of my childhood, we couldn't eat in restaurants or sleep in hotels, we couldn't use certain bathrooms or try on clothes in stores", recalls Gates. His mother retaliated by not buying clothes that she was not allowed to try on. He remembered hearing a white man deliberately calling his father by the wrong name: "'He knows my name, boy,' my father said after a long pause. 'He calls all colored people George.'" When Gates's cousin became the first black cheerleader at the local high school, she was not allowed to sit with the team and drink Coke from a glass, but had to stand at the counter drinking from a paper cup.[11] Gates also wrote about his experiences in his 1995 book, Colored People: A Memoir.[12]
Census terms in the United States In 1851, an article in The New York Times referred to the "colored population".[13] In 1863, the War Department established the Bureau of Colored Troops.
The first 12 United States Census counts counted "colored" people, who totaled nine million in 1900. The censuses of 1910–1960 counted "negroes".
Term in NAACP The term is still used in the name of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, although it is generally referred to as the NAACP.[5] In 2008, its communications director Carla Sims said "the term 'colored' is not derogatory, [the NAACP] chose the word 'colored' because it was the most positive description commonly used [in 1909, when the association was founded]. It's outdated and antiquated but not offensive." However, NAACP today rarely uses its full name and made this decision not long after the United Negro College Fund switched to using just UNCF or United Fund.
Southern Africa Main article: Coloureds In South Africa and neighboring countries, the term Coloureds refers to a multiracial ethnic group native to Southern Africa who have ancestry from more than one of the populations inhabiting the region, including indigenous (Khoisan, Bantu and others), Whites (including Afrikaners), Austronesian, East Asian, or South Asian[15] (also called Cape Malays; it was once a subcategory of the Apartheid Coloured racial grouping). Under Apartheid, South Africa broadly classified its population into four races, namely Blacks, Whites, Coloureds and Indians.[16]
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In my opinion, in America the term Colored is considered offensive mainly because is associated with earlier more racist time periods in U.S. history. Still skin colored based, which I don't think is the best way to categorize people if people must be categorized
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I noticed Tyla is on the Times Square NY New Years Eve performance list
AGNEW, dance group Flo Rida, joined by Sage the Gemini Jelly Roll LL Cool J Maria Becerra Megan Thee Stallion Sabrina Carpenter Triad Brass with Jonathan Arons Tyla Yng Lvcas
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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). I'll look her up when I come across her when actual music is playing that I like; not controversy or social media stuff (which is how I do with all these new generation artists).
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