posted
Guiseppe Sergi in his The Mediterranean Race, cited Diodorus Siculus of the 1st century who spoke “in reference to the expedition of Agathocles, of three Libyan tribes on the coast of Tunisia, the Micatani and Zufoni (see Zafan) who were nomads and the Asfodelodi, who by the color of their skin resembled the Ethiopians” (G. Sergi, p. 50).The name of these Micatani nomads of Tripolitania also known as "Ucutamani" or "Mactunia Manus" in ancient texts is retained among the modern Tuareg as Imakitan - a designation for many eastern Tuareg. They are the Kutama or Kitama Berbers - a Sanhaja related group whose women were mentioned as black by Ibn Butlan.of the 9th century..
If and I say if with a big IF... admixture with Nilo Saharans/Yoruba occurred during roman times then a moorish princess that looked like this by the 15th century is totally possible.. so casting was not far off.. or casting was open to possiblitities...
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: Guiseppe Sergi in his The Mediterranean Race, cited Diodorus Siculus of the 1st century who spoke “in reference to the expedition of Agathocles, of three Libyan tribes on the coast of Tunisia, the Micatani and Zufoni (see Zafan) who were nomads and the Asfodelodi, who by the color of their skin resembled the Ethiopians” (G. Sergi, p. 50).The name of these Micatani nomads of Tripolitania also known as "Ucutamani" or "Mactunia Manus" in ancient texts is retained among the modern Tuareg as Imakitan - a designation for many eastern Tuareg. They are the Kutama or Kitama Berbers - a Sanhaja related group whose women were mentioned as black by Ibn Butlan.of the 9th century..
Indeed there were blacks in the far south of Tunisia but as you can see they aren't described as afri/numidian/liby-phoencians/libyans but as "aethiopians" therefore emphasize their dark skin in contrast to the rest of africans he met.
Instead of copy/paste every quote you can, have you ever read about north africa's history ? Can you use your critical mind ?
1st-3rd century CE north africans were genetically similar to the modern ones :
quote:Furthermore, these latter populations are more closely related to QCP than to people from Western Europe and the Caucasus. The admixture analysis confirms the similarity of North African human groups with QCP. Archaeological evidence could be consistent with at least a cultural impact of Northern African people on the individuals buried in QCP. Indeed, several personal goods recovered in the necropolis and funeral architectures seem to wire the southern shores of the Mediterranean Sea to QCP.
quote:Imperial Rome individuals from QCP suggest a certain degree of similarity with North African and Middle Eastern individuals. Specifically, QCP43 is placed among present-day Israelis and Jordanians, while QCP29, QCP39, QCP40, and QCP42 fall in the North African cluster
Macrinus was born in Caesarea (modern Cherchell, Algeria) in the Roman province of Mauretania Caesariensis
What appears to be certain, however, is that Marcus Opellius Macrinus was born in Caesarea, the capital of the Roman province of Mauretania Caesarienis (modern Cherchell in Algeria). Although our sources say that he was from a poor family, his parents must have belonged to the local elite, because they could send their son to school. He became a lawyer, the normal office for an ambitious young Roman, and was even able to migrate to Rome itself. Here, he seems to have been regarded as a typical small-towner: he was no match for the clever legal experts, but his provincial honesty made him friends. As Cassius Dio says: "his knowledge of the laws and precedents was not so accurate as his observance of them was faithful".
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Macrinus was born in Caesarea (modern Cherchell, Algeria) in the Roman province of Mauretania Caesariensis
What appears to be certain, however, is that Marcus Opellius Macrinus was born in Caesarea, the capital of the Roman province of Mauretania Caesarienis (modern Cherchell in Algeria). Although our sources say that he was from a poor family, his parents must have belonged to the local elite, because they could send their son to school. He became a lawyer, the normal office for an ambitious young Roman, and was even able to migrate to Rome itself. Here, he seems to have been regarded as a typical small-towner: he was no match for the clever legal experts, but his provincial honesty made him friends. As Cassius Dio says: "his knowledge of the laws and precedents was not so accurate as his observance of them was faithful". [/QB]
Yes so ? It was the previous capital of the mauretanian kingdom btw
If he wasn't a moor can you explain this ? :
quote:Cassius Dio, writing in the third century and himself a Roman senator and consul from Bithynia, reflects these attitudes in his contemptuous remarks regarding the Mauretanian origins of the “usurper” emperor, Macrinus, who “because of his natural cowardice (being a Moor [Mauros], he was terribly timorous) and his soldiers’ ill-discipline, did not dare to fight on” (Cassius Dio 79.27).In Cassius Dio’s representation, Macrinus is certainly not “just like an Italian.” Instead, his ethnicity is marked in his moral character and physical appearance (e.g., his pierced ear: Cassius Dio 79.11) in ways that express his political illegitimacy
Parshia Lee-Stecum, Ethnicity in the ancient mediterranean, pp. 465
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posted
“because of his natural cowardice (being a Moor [Mauros
Aristotle?
"Too black a hue marks the coward, as witness Egyptians and Ethiopians, and so does also too white a complexion, as you may see from women. So the hue that makes for courage must be intermediate between these extremes." [4].
St. Augustine is one of the most important thinkers in the history of the world. Staggeringly brilliant, rhetorically unmatched, and – most importantly – utterly committed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Augustine set the tone for Western theology and philosophy for the next millennium and a half – an influence that hasn’t waned to this day. Even St. Thomas Aquinas, his only possible rival in importance, was an Augustinian.
And it’s possible he was black.
Of course, modern conceptions of race are a social construct and so it’s anachronistic to directly apply them backwards in time to the 4th century. And skin color is ultimately accidental – we’re all created in the imago dei as human beings.
But given modern problems of racism, it seems noteworthy that a father of Western scholarship may have been a colored man.
I say “may” because ultimately we don’t know for sure what Augustine looked like exactly. But here’s what we do know:
We know Augustine was born in Thagaste, Numidia, a trading town surrounded by forest in North Africa. So he was African.
While his father was a Roman colonist, it is believed that his mother Monica was Berber, an ethnic group indigenous to North Africa. So he may have had darker skin.
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quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: St. Augustine is one of the most important thinkers in the history of the world. Staggeringly brilliant, rhetorically unmatched, and – most importantly – utterly committed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Augustine set the tone for Western theology and philosophy for the next millennium and a half – an influence that hasn’t waned to this day. Even St. Thomas Aquinas, his only possible rival in importance, was an Augustinian.
And it’s possible he was black.
Of course, modern conceptions of race are a social construct and so it’s anachronistic to directly apply them backwards in time to the 4th century. And skin color is ultimately accidental – we’re all created in the imago dei as human beings.
But given modern problems of racism, it seems noteworthy that a father of Western scholarship may have been a colored man.
I say “may” because ultimately we don’t know for sure what Augustine looked like exactly. But here’s what we do know:
We know Augustine was born in Thagaste, Numidia, a trading town surrounded by forest in North Africa. So he was African.
While his father was a Roman colonist, it is believed that his mother Monica was Berber, an ethnic group indigenous to North Africa. So he may have had darker skin.
Yes he was so black that he never got portrayed as such...
and no his father wasn't a roman colonist :
quote:The calculation of probabilities allows us to infer that he was undoubtedly of pure Berber race" (his surname Aurelius suggests that his ancestors had been naturalized, with all the mass of the provincials, by the famous constitution of the emperor Caracalla in 212). [...] Moreover, on the military level, Cagnat (1912) underlines the weak numerical importance of the troops of occupation to which the texts testify. This limitation of manpower was accompanied by a local recruitment, preponderant at certain times. (...) And, towards 150, for example, "Rome judged its authority sufficiently based to ensure the order almost only with Berber contingents.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Your own people call some of the Native Oasis dewllers Ganaw, correct, so then whats the big deal....There blacks native to North Africa along with your people.
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For the record Gnawa cannot be native to Sahra oases. Gnawa, long story short, means Guinea and originally refered to blx from south of the Senegal and is used in dichotomy to Berber both in geo-origin and language.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Antalas:
depicted most andalusians as nigerian looking, etc
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WTF is Nigerian looking you prejudiced misguided bigot?
This is like the 3rd time you said this stupidity.
Being an anti-black racist you subscribe to anthropology's besmirched 'true negro' (human derivation from 3 stereotypical prototypes is discredited by the very people who made it up, yte europeans, who forced their definitions on the people they militarily defeated, the world did not willingly agree to yte euro created to rank them Hss #1 anthropology) since you obviously have no actual day to day shared living experiences with any blk ethny except occasional run ins with Francophone W Afrs.
What's now Nigeria was a British slice of the Magnificent African Cake and was composed of dozens of peoples differing in looks as well as culture.
Individuals and small collectives may look Ibibio or Hausa or Hausa-Fulani or Yoruba but individuals and small collectives do not look Nigerian.
But of course to wish I was EuropeanWhite Berbers and iMazighen WE ALL LOOK ALIKE.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: Tukuler called us "miscegenated"
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Because iMazighen are quite miscegenated according to every scholarly source from yte Greco-Latin authors to today's yte geneticists and all disciplines in between.
It's a fact. Live with it. In particular You a shook, mixed up ... predominantly Ottoman Turk spawn per your very own genetic disclosure.
Why feel bad about it? Every people on Earth are miscegenated few as thoroughly so and throughout all recorded time as the coastal northwest Africans calling themselves descendants of Mazigh and pejoratively dubbed Berber by conquering Arabs who thought taMazight sounded like so much bar bar bar bar bar, No different than Greco-Latin opinion of 'Germans'.
Besides the shame and self-doubt displayed by aMazigh nationalists/militants, those of coastal NW Afr who call themselves "Berber" have the least self-esteem of all. Like a dog or slave they accept their masters voice as to identity.
So they pick on blx the world's punching bag ppl "Well everybody else may whip us but damnit the blx are every other peoples 'whippin boys' so we'll whip up on them w/t whole world's approval."
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: ... meanwhile I've seen moroccan blacks having important amount of IBM ancestry at the same level as "white" berbers which is very interesting.
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Why put white in parenthesis? Arabic records use white for iMazighen in general. Leo Africanus used white, it was Pory translated white into tawny. Amazigh nationalists/militants promote a white identity, native African white ID. True a few balk at being called white because not wanting confusion w/yte Euros.
Africa has been recorded as a Two Colour Continent since primary AE textual documents right down to today and by archaeology inferences even before then.
What's so interesting about the continuity of blacks in Morocco when the ancients have told us Aethiopians controlled even further north than the Souss and Adrar right across from the Canary Islands named by Juba.
Only interested to the made up minded prejudiced Afrocentrics, like you Antalas, who either never dispassionately examined the historic prime texts or else does a retain-only-what-I-already-believe skim read 'analysis'.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Your own people call some of the Native Oasis dewllers Ganaw, correct, so then whats the big deal....There blacks native to North Africa along with your people.
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For the record Gnawa cannot be native to Sahra oases. Gnawa, long story short, means Guinea and originally refered to blx from south of the Senegal and is used in dichotomy to Berber both in geo-origin and language.
gnawen/ginawen means in berber "black people" "burned people" and this designation would have been then taken again by the Portuguese, then deformed giving the word Guinea.
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I sincerely apologize for messing up your post I thought I was in reply mode. I will do everything to try and restore your original post. Again SORRY!
You can go on shakin yo arse but please quit being the butthole.
How you gonna have Neolithic Anatolian genetics but the historic Turkisn ppl of Anatolia don't?
Why can you show prehistoric continuity over thousands of miles away from the Rock but current Anatolians right at home can't.
True to your Afrocentricity, you twist facts out of shape and ignore factual history. Like the Ottomans ruled N Afr contributing to the miscegenation of the already highly mixed breed NW Afr population. I understand Algerians of that particular mixed blood heritage have social orgs all of their own. I was shocked when I first heard of massive genetic contributions from Osmands.
Replicable facts remain accurate despite private truths' opinions.
They didn't have to conquer Maroc for their genes to infiltrate.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: Tukuler called us "miscegenated"
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Because you are according to everybody from yte Greco-Latin authors to today's Euro yte geneticists.
It's a fact. Live with it. In particular You a shook, mixed up ... predominantly Ottoman Turk spawn per your own genetic disclosure.
Why feel bad about it? Every people on Earth are miscegenated few as thoroughly so and throughout all recorded time as the coastal northwest Africans calling themselves descendants of Mazigh and pejoratively dubbed Berber by conquering Arabs who thought taMazight sounded like so much bar bar bar bar bar.
hahah wait...are you confusing Anatolia_N ancestry with "ottoman turk" ?? XD I thought you had a minimum of knowledge about genetics smh
[ 27. December 2021, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Tukuler ]
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Antalas: ... meanwhile I've seen moroccan blacks having important amount of IBM ancestry at the same level as "white" berbers which is very interesting.
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Why put white in parenthesis? Arabic records use white for iMazighen in general. Leo Africanus used white, it was the Pory xlated white into tawny. Amazigh nationalists/militants promote white identity, native African white ID. True a few balk at being called white because not wanting confusion w/yte Euros.
Africa has been recorded as a Two Colour Continent since primary AE textual documents right down to today and by archaeology inferences even before then.
What's so interesting about the continuity of blacks in Morocco when the ancients have told us Aethiopians controlled even further north than the Souss and Adrar right across from the Canary Islands named by Juba.
Only interested to the made up minded prejudiced Afrocentrics, like you Antalas, who either never dispassionately examined the historic prime texts or else does a retain-only-what-I-already-believe skim read 'analysis'.
Because today "white" is mostly associated and synonymous of european.
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How Can Y-DNA Haplogroup E be African if Haplogroup C is not in Africa?
They explain in the study that; Two separate migrations were made out of Africa within a short time period. The Hadza/Mota type haplogroup B people were the source of both. The first migration was to Asia. After B left Africa, they mixed with archaic humans in Asia that led to the emergence of (C). Within a short time after that, the B carriers that didn’t leave Africa mixed with another C group in Africa (CT) which led to the emergence of (DE) which also left Africa at some point. However, not all the CT carriers left Africa. One dominant group remained in North East Africa, mixed with older humans, giving brh to DE and became the ancestor of the present-day Niger-Congo and Bantu farmers. The study confirms that both DE and E were born in North East Africa and all the evidence is looking like Haplogroup E1b1b also developed in Africa.
What Other Evidence is There About the E1b1b Carriers?
The recent 2018 study on the 15,000-year-old ancient remains of the Iberomarusians in North Africa that showed that the ancient E1b1b individuals had the following characteristics; They carried little to no Neanderthal admixture. Heavy Neanderthal/Denisovan admixture is a sign of Asian/Australoid heritage - Tibetans, Australian aborigines and some Melanesians carry on average 4-6% Neanderthal/Denisovan ancestry (the highest in all humans). However, the tiny amount carried by the ancient remains of the Iberomarusians was on par with the amounts currently found in Sub-Saharan Africa. This may suggest much closer links to Africa . However, this doesn’t rule out the fact that an Australoid-type (Neanderthal + African mixed) people inhabited the Middle East at some point. There were lots of back and forth migrations into Africa. [IMG]They lacked the SLC24A5 Indo European depigmentation genes - certainly, they were not white like present-day North Africans who carry those genes. This has been proven by the Taforalt study.[/IMG] Their DNA was partially related to the ancient Natufian remains found in the Levant and were most likely ancestral to the Levantine Natufians. They had the same burial practices as found in Ancient Egypt - the dead were buried facing the West. So there is a clear connection with the Taforalt population and the ancient Egyptians. They carried the Hadza genetic component as well as some West Eurasian ancestry. This has been proven by the Taforalt study which showed 5% Hadza ancestry. Most importantly, they were lactose intolerant which is a common trait of Sub Saharan Africans. Again, this has been proven by the Taforalt study. Another recent study from the Dzudzuana caves in Georgia revealed that West Africans (represented by the Yoruba) carry 12% DNA passed down from a Taforalt/Iberomarusian related group (one branch of the Ancient North African (ANA) DNA is now extinct and their ghost presence only shows up in West African DNA samples).
The thing is - if West Africans carry an ancient North African DNA but show no signs of the SLC24A5 depigmentation genes found in present-day North Africans, the ancient North Africans evidently did not look like the present. How can this be? We’ll find out later, but first, let’s see how the ancient E1b1b carriers compare to the present day carriers.
How do these findings compare with the present-day E1b1b carriers?
Although the modern-day North Africans from Morocco have managed to maintain the male Y-DNA of their ancestors, they now carry higher amounts of Neanderthal DNA which their Taforalt ancestors did not carry.
In addition, modern-day North Africans are mostly of a light-skinned West Eurasian/Indo European descent, but as previously stated, the ancient Taforalt remains were mostly of a dark-skinned Ancient North African (ANA) DNA mixed with a West Eurasian MtDNA, ‘In contrast, present-day North Africans have minimal ANA-related contribution' This means that somewhere down the line, North Africans have received a heavy amount of migration from West Eurasia or Europe that has gradually displaced the ANA element . So, clearly, the ancient North Africans would not have looked physically like the modern population. What else did the study find?
The study on the Taforalt remains in Northern Morocco also revealed that these ancient individuals did not carry the light skin depigmentation gene SLC24A5. The depigmentation gene is only 8000 years old and has been in Africa for around 3,000 - 5000 years and is said to have come from Anatolia (West Eurasia). It wasn’t carried by the Taforalt individuals but it is now overwhelmingly found across the Middle East and North Africa).
Quote from the study;
“Phenotypic analysis was performed on four of the Taforalt individuals with higher genomic coverage. The Taforalt individuals tested did NOT carry either of the derived SLC24A5 alleles associated with lighter skin color, the derived OCA2 allele associated with blue eye color, or the derived MCM6 allele associated with lactase persistence. However, they were found to carry the ancestral SLC24A4 allele associated with dark eye color.“ How exactly does SLC24A5 affect skin colour? The SLC24A5 gene's derived threonine or Ala111Thr allele (rs1426654) has been shown to be a major factor in the light skin tone of Europeans compared to Sub-Saharan Africans, and is believed to represent as much as 25–40% of the average skin tone difference between Europeans and West Africans.
Researchers found that all individuals from the Middle East, North Africa, East Africa, and South India who carry the A111T mutation share a common “fingerprint” -- traces of the ancestral genetic code -- in the corresponding chromosomal region, indicating that all existing instances of this mutation originate from the same person. (This is evidence of a separate migration of white-skinned West Eurasians). Carriers of SLC24a5 spread across Northern and Southern Europe, the Middle East and North Africa in the last 3,000 - 5,000 years.
This means that somewhere down the line, the Ancient black skinned North Africans received those light skin alleles through heavy admixture with a much later migration of Indo Europeans or light-skinned West Eurasians, hence why SLC24A5 is not found in present-day West Africa.
West Africans received their ‘North African’ DNA by the ancient group of dark-skinned North Africans that were in Africa 35,000 years before being replaced by the modern ones. The modern ones have inherited the Y-DNA of the ancient ones. Who were these ancient dark-skinned North Africans? Nobody knows. We’ll take a look later at who they might have been; but first, let’s look at the image below.
The image below is of SLC24A5 carriers with dark green being the strongest. Even South Asians and East Africans carry this depigmentation gene - as dark as they are. Only West Africans/Southern Africans and East Asians lack it. Image Source: The Light Skin Allele of SLC24A5 in South Asians and Europeans Shares Identity by Descent
Who were the Iberomaurusians?
Taforalt/Iberomaurusians were half ANA (Ancient North African) and half Eurasian (from an earlier migration of West Eurasians into North Africa). Who were the ancient north Africans?
The Ancient North African population (ANA) was not Eurasian. They were more like the Omotic people of Ethiopia or Mota populations (a type of native black African - native to North-East Africa) . They were more or less related to the group that left Africa, settled in Europe and the Middle East, and became the ancestors of Eurasians. However, they were black-skinned and native to Africa. One branch did not leave Africa. Who were the West Eurasians?
The West Eurasian DNA found in the Taforalt/Iberomarusian samples were most likely Eurasians that had returned back to Africa. However, they were black skinned people as SLC24A5 was not found in their gene s. Although they were dark-skinned, they would have looked distinct from other black populations due to Neanderthal admixture.
They were more or less a Cheddar man type people with straight hair and dark skin but didn’t have blue eyes like Cheddar man. These Eurasian females had mixed with ANA men probably in North Africa, the Middle East or Eurasia.
So Are Modern Day North African Mixed with Two West Eurasian Groups?
Yes. The minor West Eurasian component in the Taforalt/Iberomarusian samples lacked the SLC24A5 genes. This proves that they were different from the West Eurasians that arrived in full-blown force 5,000 years ago carrying SLC24A5 in their genes. So, we are talking about two different types of Eurasians - black ones and white ones.
Various waves of West Asians entered Africa, the first being dark-skinned and the latter waves being white-skinned. The vast majority of the ancient North Africans ended up in present-day Mauritania and were settlers in Dhar Tichitt ) before the white-skinned Berbers and Arabs arrived in Africa via Libya.
CREDIT: @TUKULER
As described earlier, the first Eurasians were probably more of a Cheddar Man/Australoid/pre-Dravidian or Melanesian type people who lived across Asia, Southern Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa, for thousands of years before being absorbed by the Indo European SLC24A5 carriers who arrived to North Africa 3,000 - 5,000 years ago. This is also supported by the ‘Cheddar Man'theory. The most prominent were the ancestors of the Bafour people or ‘Pharusians’ whose presence have been recorded in North Africa. They were black-skinned people who are said to have come to West Africa directly from Ancient Egypt 9,000 years ago: They lived mostly in North Africa and had the same burial practices as the Ancient Egyptians. Some historians say that the Bafour were African in origin, others say they had historical roots in Southern Yemen/Northern Ethiopia or ancient India (but bore no resemblance to present-day Yemenis/Indians who are now mixed with Semitic/Indo European or ancient Iranian farmers). They could have also been related to the Natufians of the Levant.
What did the E1b1b carriers look like? Nobody knows what the Ancient E1b1b carriers looked like. They were certainly black-skinned but may have looked distinct from other Africans. The original E1b1b carriers have now been renamed as the Ancient North Africans (ANA) as they no longer exist in North Africa in their true form. Present-day West Africans are said to carry a ‘ghost’ DNA from these ANA people.
Although the original ‘Cheddar Man’ phenotype of the first West Asian North Africans has been lost due to admixture with various groups, it can still be observed upon entering the West African Sahel region, just like the girl below. West African Sahelian girl with Straight hair and dark skin.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: ... they never want to question the origin of these black north africans even though for instance these blacks themselves claims to be bambara[sic]/hausa[sic]
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Hateful uncapitalized spelling of Afican blk ppls, SMH.
Africana scholars know the Gnawa in N Afr are now predominantly Bamabara. Words in N afr Gnawa speech evince Bambara lect models. Some Gnawa songs lament the trade that moved them to N Afr and forgive their enslavers and their wrongs.
The mix-up between native N Afr blx and imported Gnawa began when that Moroccan ruler, who's mum was 'Gnawa', built up his Civil Service by rounding up and then enslaving all Moroccans of blk skin claiming every blk in Maroc is rightfully a slave per Shemitic theology (Curse of Ham - w/o cheese).
The iMazighen and Arabs who disagreed and presented facts were summarily executed.
As for why Antalas always brings up slavery? In N Afr the blackman&woman is considered slave. They are not called blacks in everyday parlance. They are called abd = slave.
I realize the blk ppl on ES are de-tribalized and feel socially equal to ytes despite the 'de facto' reality of blk life worldwide and they may not want to learn the fact that in the Arabic speaking world blk human = slave.
Next time you goto the bodega ask the Yamani proprietor about blx back home and what's this word abd (sing) / abeed (plur).
Ha, I even had a Moroccan Jew thought I was a slave when he hired me to teach him PC basics. No there was no hatred displayed in the least. I was paid handsomely and fed and treated like an in-law by the wife. Yet the guy tried to restrict my access to depart on my schedule. He took me by the wrists: "You're not going nowhere" "Yes, I'm leaving NOW, this is New York. Next session day after tomorrow." BTW He was one of my supporters @ the yte Ashkenazi shul where we both congregated.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: gnawen/ginawen means in berber "black people" "burned people"
Incorrect. The plural in taMazight lects is formed by affixing an "i" and suffixing "en" onto the root. Go back to school and learn your language. Learn it in the USA at Howard University the only college offering it last I checked over a decade ago.
How about that? Blx despised and prejudicially assumed Afrocentric are the ones teaching taMazight! Hahah.
They carried little to no Neanderthal admixture. Heavy Neanderthal/Denisovan admixture is a sign of Asian/Australoid heritage - Tibetans, Australian aborigines and some Melanesians carry on average 4-6% Neanderthal/Denisovan ancestry (the highest in all humans). However, the tiny amount carried by the ancient remains of the Iberomarusians was on par with the amounts currently found in Sub-Saharan Africa. This may suggest much closer links to Africa . However, this doesn’t rule out the fact that an Australoid-type (Neanderthal + African mixed) people inhabited the Middle East at some point. There were lots of back and forth migrations into Africa.
That's simply false :
quote:This suggests that most of IAM ancestry originates from an out-of-Africa source, as IAM shares more alleles with Levantines than with any sub-Saharan Africans, including the 4,500-y-old genome from Ethiopia (14). To further test the hypothesis that IAM is more closely related to out-of-Africa populations, we determined whether we could detect Neanderthal ancestry in IAM, which is typical of non-African populations. A signal of Neanderthal ancestry has been detected in modern North African populations (26). A lack of Neanderthal ancestry in IAM would imply that the signal observed today is a product of more recent migration into North Africa from the Middle East and Europe in historical times. Compared with the Neanderthal high coverage genome sequence from Altai (27) and the low-coverage sequence from Vindija Cave (28), and using the S statistic (24), we detected a Neanderthal introgression signal into IAM, suggesting derivation from the same event shared by non-African populations (SI Appendix, Supplementary Note 10).
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: [IMG]They lacked the SLC24A5 Indo European depigmentation genes - certainly, they were not white like present-day North Africans who carry those genes. This has been proven by the Taforalt study.[/IMG] Their DNA was partially related to the ancient Natufian remains found in the Levant and were most likely ancestral to the Levantine Natufians. They had the same burial practices as found in Ancient Egypt - the dead were buried facing the West. So there is a clear connection with the Taforalt population and the ancient Egyptians. They carried the Hadza genetic component as well as some West Eurasian ancestry. This has been proven by the Taforalt study which showed 5% Hadza ancestry. Most importantly, they were lactose intolerant which is a common trait of Sub Saharan Africans. Again, this has been proven by the Taforalt study. Another recent study from the Dzudzuana caves in Georgia revealed that West Africans (represented by the Yoruba) carry 12% DNA passed down from a Taforalt/Iberomarusian related group (one branch of the Ancient North African (ANA) DNA is now extinct and their ghost presence only shows up in West African DNA samples). The thing is - if West Africans carry an ancient North African DNA but show no signs of the SLC24A5 depigmentation genes found in present-day North Africans, the ancient North Africans evidently did not look like the present. How can this be? We’ll find out later, but first, let’s see how the ancient E1b1b carriers compare to the present day carriers.
Being dark skinned doesn't mean they looked black or like modern people of SSA. See Amerindians also lacked this gene and yet do they look black to you ? What matters are facial features not skin pigmentation. Moreover light skin appeared during the late neolithic in North Africa :
quote:On the other hand, KEB individuals exhibit some European-derived alleles that predispose individuals to lighter skin and eye color, including those on genes SLC24A5 (rs1426654) and OCA2 (rs1800401) (SI Appendix, Supplementary Note 11).
quote:"The TCHH1 gene codes for trichohyalin, a protein active in hair follicle roots. For all Taforalt individuals we find the derived homozygous AA genotype for SNP rs17646946 in this gene, which has been associated with straighter hair in Europeans (allelic effect (ß) = 0.4-0.5, explained variance = 6.11%) (98).
they also had a lot of SNP variants typically found among eurasians but which do not exist in SSA :
quote:"Finally, we analyzed two SNP variants that have been studied in relation to susceptibility for mycobacterial infections (80). A derived allele of rs4833103 in the TLR1-6-10 gene, which encodes an active functional component in the innate immune response, is associated with a possibly increased resistance to leprosy, tuberculosis and other mycobacteria (104, 105). All Taforalt individuals show the derived homozygote CC genotype. In present-day populations the derived allele state has a high frequency in Eurasians but a low frequency, or absence, in sub805 Saharan Africans."
quote:The Late Pleistocene material from Afalou and Taforalt in North Africa, on the other hand, had no similarity with sub-Saharan Africa. Instead, the groups from which it cannot be distinguished range from the Neolithic of Algeria and Egypt, modern Nubia, and especially modern Europe. The pattern of affiliations of the Algerian Neolithic is remarkably similar to that of the Algerian Late Pleistocene at Afalou and Taforalt and suggests long-term in situ population continuity.
Brace, C. L., D. P. Tracer, L. A. Yaroch, J. Robb, K. Brandt, and A. R. Nelson. 1993. Clines and Clusters Versus "Race": A Test in Ancient Egypt and the Case of a Death on the Nile. Yearbook of Physical Anthropology 36:1-31.
quote:The 21 specimens analyzed are sufficient to give a good idea of the characteristics of the Taforalt population. None of these specimens are related to present-day sub-Sudanese specimens (absence of haplogroup L, grouping typically sub-Saharan African haplotypes). The hypothesis of an origin south of the Sahara of the Iberomaurusians is therefore not supported by our results, showing rather a Mediterranean-type settlement in North Africa at least until 12,000 years ago. Our results would support work based on dental, craniofacial morphometric and post-cranial analyses showing divergences between IberoMaurusian populations and their contemporaries in Sudan (Bermudez de Castro 1991, Irish 2000). The presence of a sub-Saharan component in present-day North African populations would be due to migrations after 12,000 years BP.
Taforalt populations were genetically closer to modern north africans than any other african population :
quote:When we compare pair-wise FST distances, the most striking result is that IAM presents rather high FST values with all populations except for Taforalt (0.049). The following closest populations are KEB and Guanches (Figure S9.1) with FST values of 0.090 (similar to the distance between Yoruba and Mbuti) and 0.119 (similar to the distance between Somali and Mbuti), respectively. In fact, IAM is in general as distant to other Eurasians as it is the Yoruba population, following the same pattern observed previously for Taforalt. In a detailed population-by-population comparison (Figure S9.2), we can see that IAM is closer to modern North African populations, following the west to east trend described before, in such a way Saharawis and Moroccans are closer than Egyptians (Figure S9.3)."
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: Although the modern-day North Africans from Morocco have managed to maintain the male Y-DNA of their ancestors, they now carry higher amounts of Neanderthal DNA which their Taforalt ancestors did not carry. In addition, modern-day North Africans are mostly of a light-skinned West Eurasian/Indo European descent, but as previously stated, the ancient Taforalt remains were mostly of a dark-skinned Ancient North African (ANA) DNA mixed with a West Eurasian MtDNA, ‘In contrast, present-day North Africans have minimal ANA-related contribution' This means that somewhere down the line, North Africans have received a heavy amount of migration from West Eurasia or Europe that has gradually displaced the ANA element. So, clearly, the ancient North Africans would not have looked physically like the modern population. What else did the study find?
Whut ?? Taforalt already had "minimal" level of ANA ancestry and were predominantly west eurasian :
and this "heavy amount of migration" actually isn't recent but prehistoric :
quote:By 3,000 BCE, a continuity in the Neolithic spread brought Mediterranean-like ancestry to the Maghreb, most likely from Iberia. Other archaeological remains, such as African elephant ivory and ostrich eggs found in Iberian sites, confirm the existence of contacts and exchange networks through both sides of the Gibraltar strait at this time. Our analyses strongly support that at least some of the European ancestry observed today in North Africa is related to prehistoric migrations, and local Berber populations were already admixed with Europeans before the Roman conquest. Furthermore, additional European/Iberian ancestry could have reached the Maghreb after KEB people; this scenario is supported by the presence of Iberian-like Bell-Beaker pottery in more recent stratigraphic layers of IAM and KEB caves . Future paleogenomic efforts in North Africa will further disentangle the complex history of migrations that forged the ancestry of the admixed populations we observe today.
Moreover before KEB, there was the capsians which we don't have their genetic results yet.
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: This means that somewhere down the line, the Ancient black skinned North Africans received those light skin alleles through heavy admixture with a much later migration of Indo Europeans or light-skinned West Eurasians, hence why SLC24A5 is not found in present-day West Africa. West Africans received their ‘North African’ DNA by the ancient group of dark-skinned North Africans that were in Africa 35,000 years before being replaced by the modern ones. The modern ones have inherited the Y-DNA of the ancient ones. Who were these ancient dark-skinned North Africans? Nobody knows. We’ll take a look later at who they might have been; but first, let’s look at the image below. The image below is of SLC24A5 carriers with dark green being the strongest. Even South Asians and East Africans carry this depigmentation gene - as dark as they are. Only West Africans/Southern Africans and East Asians lack it. Image Source: The Light Skin Allele of SLC24A5 in South Asians and Europeans Shares Identity by Descent
Indo-europeans didn't even exist back then and that's a linguistic group. These same indo-europeans actually submitted these anatolian like populations who brought light skin genes to north africa. So no it wasn't "heavy admixture with a much later migration of indo europeans" lol
Moreover Not all west africans received it only from taforalt, people like Fulanis also received north african ancestry recently (that's why they have anatolian-like ancestry) :
quote:We inferred that the non-West African proportion in the Fulani were introduced through two admixture events (Additional file 1: Table S2), dated to 1828 years ago (95% CI: 1517-2138) and 302 years ago (95% CI: 237–368). [...] However, if both ancestries are present in the demographic model (Additional file 2: Figure S11 C and D), only a North African ancestry population (mixed with a European population) can be a potential ancestor to the Fulani from Burkina Faso, whereas the model where Europeans directly mixed with West Africans to produce the Fulani is not significant.
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: [qb] gnawen/ginawen means in berber "black people" "burned people"
Incorrect. The plural in taMazight lects is formed by affixing an "i" and suffixing "en" onto the root. Go back to school and learn your language. Learn it in the USA at Howard University the only college offering it last I checked over a decade ago.
??? yes ok if you want to talk like in a classroom that would be ignawen but it doesn't change its meaning
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
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posted
My ppl did not receive N Afr ancestry recently.
In fact one ADMIXTURE graph charts the Fulani element as 'birthing' the aMazight element. Proto-Fulani were the early Holocene Sahra herders yet everybody jumps on the yte Afrs introducing pastoralism to Dinka, Nuer, etc w/o applying logic.
Is something wrong when genetics completely counters all other cross discipline results?
Lactase persistance oldest in Fulani yet claimed to be the European gene.
Sahra's "Sudanese". Now forgotten and even the Bir and the Playa now attributed to Sahra's Gafsians
Just the continuing onslaught to remove blx from even their own territorial history. Something that began w/t Atlantic slavery demanding blx be dehumanized to salve the conscious of the enslavers.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
My ppl did not receive N Afr ancestry recently.
In fact one ADMIXTURE graph charts the Fulani element as 'birthing' the aMazight element. Proto-Fulani were the early-mid Holocene Sahra herders yet everybody today jumps on the yte Afrs introducing pastoralism to Dinka, Nuer, etc w/o applying logic.
Is something wrong when genetics completely counters all other cross discipline results?
Why do geneticists articles confirm Hamiticism? The people writing the programs learnt ethnology from teachers woh learned Hamiticism. How much of this enters their program tools? There's a reason why Euro data nearly always is at the top or the right of ADMIXTURE graphs? I readily accept ADMIXTURE as the best tool out there now.
[Soon enough I'll have my own dedicated ADMIXTURE lab that I asked others here to guide me through set-up but no one wants to help me to it so it's slow but coming. We'll see what the 'strictly scientific' pgms in the pkg do with Ks and geo-pops I select. I notice sometimes ADMIXTURE and PC don't jibe and in the writeups PC seems preferred over ADMIXTURE in leaving out Inner African elements.]
Lactase persistance oldest in Fulani yet claimed to be the European gene.
Sahra's "Sudanese". Now forgotten and even the Bir and the Playa now attributed to Sahra's Gafsians
Just the continuing onslaught to remove blx from even their own territorial history. Something that began w/t Atlantic slavery demanding blx be dehumanized to salve the conscious of the enslavers.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Just admit you were wrong w/o trying to justify your error.
That's what I do. I don't make excuses for why I'm right when I'm wrong like you do. I expect capitulation w/o your claptrap when you're wrong.
I posted Pope said nothing about black Canarians. Those who thought so were wrong. No claptrap from 'em.
I investigated and found the Cutthroat/Cutthroak drawings are in fact not Canarians. I once thought so but proved myself wrong. No claptrap from me.
Algerian postage stamps as authentic historic images? theLioness' critical pointers made me dig deep. No claptrap I immediately reversed myself because it's not about ego, personalities, or ES member cliques. For me it's about an Authentic Africana not one subordinate to nationalism be it pro-Africa --ie Gnawa or aMazigh-- biased ethnocentricism or bad ole Eurocentricism.
But you? Tres claptrap. Why? You a racist berber who can never be wrong when countering an, in your mind, stupid negro akl Gnawa inferior.
quote:Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: [qb] gnawen/ginawen means in berber "black people" "burned people"
Incorrect. The plural in taMazight lects is formed by affixing an "i" and suffixing "en" onto the root. Go back to school and learn your language. Learn it in the USA at Howard University the only college offering it last I checked over a decade ago.
??? yes ok if you want to talk like in a classroom that would be ignawen but it doesn't change its meaning
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: My ppl did not receive N Afr ancestry recently.
In fact one ADMIXTURE graph charts the Fulani element as 'birthing' the aMazight element. Proto-Fulani were the early Holocene Sahra herders yet everybody jumps on the yte Afrs introducing pastoralism to Dinka, Nuer, etc w/o applying logic.
Is something wrong when genetics completely counters all other cross discipline results?
Lactase persistance oldest in Fulani yet claimed to be the European gene.
Sahra's "Sudanese". Now forgotten and even the Bir and the Playa now attributed to Sahra's Gafsians
Just the continuing onslaught to remove blx from even their own territorial history. Something that began w/t Atlantic slavery demanding blx be dehumanized to salve the conscious of the enslavers.
I posted the source and the dates they give are in line with what we know from archaeology with the expansion of pastoralism, horse and the equidians.
So you can say a good part of their IBM ancestry goes back to the holocene but certainly not the rest or else how would you explain they have EEF ancestry ?
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] Just admit you were wrong w/o trying to justify your error.
That's what I do. I don't make excuses for why I'm right when I'm wrong like you do. I expect capitulation w/o your claptrap when you're wrong.
I posted Pope said nothing about black Canarians. Those who thought so were wrong. No claptrap from 'em.
I investigated and found the Cutthroat/Cutthroak drawings are in fact not Canarians. I once thought so but proved myself wrong. No claptrap from me.
Algerian postage stamps as authentic historic images? theLioness' critical pointers made me dig deep. No claptrap I immediately reversed myself because it's not about ego, personalities, or ES member cliques. For me it's about an Authentic Africana not one subordinate to nationalism be it pro-Africa --ie Gnawa or aMazigh-- biased ethnocentricism or bad ole Eurocentricism.
But you? Tres claptrap. Why? You a racist berber who can never be wrong when countering an, in your mind, stupid negro akl Gnawa inferior.
Can you stop playing the victim and accusing me of being racist ? Anyway I wasn't wrong, I just quickly remembered it.
the same way arabs will say "bilad" and moroccans will say blad/bladi. But if you want extreme accuracy then ok.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Antalas: [QB] [QUOTE] Antalas:
Didn't you post your genetic results somewhere here on the forum? Aren't you 50% Anatolian Farmer?
Present-day North Africans are trying to claim that they descend directly from ‘Mechta Afalou’ but there is no evidence of this.
North Africans also like to use the argument that the indigenous Berber component MtDNA U6 and E1b1b belongs to the white-skinned Berbers and Europeans. However, they ignore the fact that other Africans also show a connection to those lineages like the Hausa and Fulani people in Nigeria.
They also like to claim that the indigenous North Africans were white and the Sahara separated them from other Africans, forgetting the Nilotic and Hadza peoples always lived above the Sahara when it was green.
African Hunter-Gatherers even lived as far as Europe
What's more, the Sahara was green at one point, and humans could easily cross over. They also like to put up computer-generated images (like the below) of Mechta Afalou to support their claim. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Mechta Afalou had this skin color in the image below. In fact, the recent 2018 study on the 15,000-year-old ancient remains of the Iberomarusians in North Africa that showed that the ancient E1b1b individuals had the following characteristics;
“Phenotypic analysis was performed on four of the Taforalt individuals with higher genomic coverage. The Taforalt individuals tested did NOT carry either of the derived SLC24A5 alleles associated with lighter skin color, the derived OCA2 allele associated with blue eye color, or the derived MCM6 allele associated with lactase persistence . However, they were found to carry the ancestral SLC24A4 allele associated with dark eye color.’’ Haplogroup E is derived from DE and is an African lineage and the study clearly proves that both the mixed-race combination of E1b1b and MtDNA U6 was dark-skinned before it was white . Yet, white North Africans still think that the ancient North Africans looked like this;
On the contrary, the latest DNA studies show that they would have more or less resembled this image below - minus the blue eyes -Source; Ancient DNA sheds light on the origin of Europeans
Your reconstructions look Fulani... but the man looks suspicioulsy like Native American actor Graham Greene
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
There's no such thing as EEF outside of science based speculation.
The early European farmers were not Europeans. They were migrants debarking from Anatolia.
What so-called EEF is? Haven't the foggiest.
The Fulani element uncovered by ADMIXTURE earliest detection is Neolithic Levant samples.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Thereal: This makes no sense,you're describing a region. Bantu speakers live throughout Africa and aren't necessarily defined by a look as some Bantu speakers can have thin facial features and similar to Ethiopians and Somalis.
west african looking
Funny Thing is anthropology and ethnology once classed southern dwelling baNtu speakers as Hamite because of their facial features. Few baNtu speakers come anywhere near to approaching the True Negro stereotype which most Inner Africans do not.
Yes as a continental confluence we have nappy hair, broad and sometimes flat noses, and thick lips but few to the extent of the colonialists True Negro extreme thought to be the physical type all Inner Africans 'devolved' from but only due to caucasian daddies.
Fact is, the True Negro where found, is the Inner African phenonytpe most representative of drift away from 'the ancestor'.
Individual yte Euro historians, anthropologists, and ethnologists each have their own favorite pet Africans whom they wish/whisk away from being black like the rest.
One even went so far as to label his favorites the Rain Foresters as "the little white men"
remembered bu never read again by me since encountered at university many decades ago
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Sorry Beur
AHP Sahra art shows proto-Fulani exactly as Burkina, Niger, Nigeria, Cameroon, etc Fula herders look today.
I have nothing to prove to you. You're a Noob and know no Inner African history etc yet act as authoritative due to yte privilege.
So ...
YOU prove otherwise.
If you come back w/yr claptrap instead of a presentation it will find itself in the bit bucket so don't do it then turn around and moan weep and cry when live up to my word
Yes we've interacted with the ancestors of the pre-taMazight speakers ever since we both inhabited pre-historic SE Algeria over 6000 years ago. Hence there will be bidirectional overlaps between hal Pulaaren and today's iMazighen during all time periods.
Oh the foolish notions outsiders make up about Inner Africa and Inner African. They make it up out they butt.
Pulaar has noun classes same as baNtu. Some ethnologist have seen Fulani and baNtu as one. Fact is, there are no baNtu people in W Afr and Cameroon Fulbe mock the local baNtu speakers and as a rule will not marry any.
To hell with that. Kikuyu say I resemble a Kamba. I'd've married Kenya baNtu if their mores matched mine but they will entertain men other than their husbands.
quote:Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:Originally posted by Thereal: This makes no sense,you're describing a region. Bantu speakers live throughout Africa and aren't necessarily defined by a look as some Bantu speakers can have thin facial features and similar to Ethiopians and Somalis.
west african looking
I meant people who currently live in West Africa not specifically "bantus" and as far as I know only fulanis have thin facial features in this area thanks to their north african admixture.
Didn't you post your genetic results somewhere here on the forum? Aren't you 50% Anatolian Farmer?
I'm around 45% early european farmer who were a mix of anatolian farmers and WHG. This type of ancestry appeared in north africa 6k-5k years ago. I posted a quote about it but it seems you avoided it.
Ancient canary islanders also had this type of ancestry :
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: Present-day North Africans are trying to claim that they descend directly from ‘Mechta Afalou’ but there is no evidence of this.
Therefore how do you explain I score 30% of it ? How do you explain modern north africans score between 30-50% of it ?
Also can you explain us this ? :
quote:Haplogroup U6 is considered a North African autochthonous lineage, with a coalescence age of 42,000 -52,000 BP. U6 is related to the back migration to Africa from Eurasia in Paleolithic times40,41. Haplogroup U6 is relatively frequent in modern day North African populations (e.g. 7.5% in Morocco according to Pennarun et al.42), indicating a maternal continuity in the region since Paleolithic times.
quote:IAM.6 shares three of its private mutations with a modern sample from Tunisia42 and two Iberomaurusian samples from Taforalt43, defining the new haplogroup U6a7b2 (Figure S4.4), further confirming a temporal continuity in the North African region. The other derived cluster, U6a7b1 is distributed again in North Africa, Europe and the Canary Islands, whose indigenous population has a North African Berber origin60,61."
quote:We show that Early Neolithic Moroccans (~5,000 BCE) are similar to Later Stone Age individuals from the same region and possess an endemic element retained in present-day Maghrebi populations, confirminga long-term genetic continuity in the region.
Modern north africans have the highest amount of IBM ancestry, no other population reach our levels.
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: North Africans also like to use the argument that the indigenous Berber component MtDNA U6 and E1b1b belongs to the white-skinned Berbers and Europeans. However, they ignore the fact that other Africans also show a connection to those lineages like the Hausa and Fulani people in Nigeria.
These lineages are more common in europe than among fulanis or Hausa but it seems you didn't pay attention to what I posted since I already showed you that such group have north african ancestry.
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: They also like to claim that the indigenous North Africans were white and the Sahara separated them from other Africans, forgetting the Nilotic and Hadza peoples always lived above the Sahara when it was green.
There is no evidence of what you're saying. People who lived in North Africa back then were iberomaurusians and capsians but anyway I don't see why you go as far as the green sahara period.
The sahara is literally the biggest genetic barrier in the world :
even a child would see it :
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: What's more, the Sahara was green at one point, and humans could easily cross over. They also like to put up computer-generated images (like the below) of Mechta Afalou to support their claim. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Mechta Afalou had this skin color in the image below. In fact, the recent 2018 study on the 15,000-year-old ancient remains of the Iberomarusians in North Africa that showed that the ancient E1b1b individuals had the following characteristics;
“Phenotypic analysis was performed on four of the Taforalt individuals with higher genomic coverage. The Taforalt individuals tested did NOT carry either of the derived SLC24A5 alleles associated with lighter skin color, the derived OCA2 allele associated with blue eye color, or the derived MCM6 allele associated with lactase persistence . However, they were found to carry the ancestral SLC24A4 allele associated with dark eye color.’’ Haplogroup E is derived from DE and is an African lineage and the study clearly proves that both the mixed-race combination of E1b1b and MtDNA U6 was dark-skinned before it was white . Yet, white North Africans still think that the ancient North Africans looked like this;
On the contrary, the latest DNA studies show that they would have more or less resembled this image below - minus the blue eyes -Source; Ancient DNA sheds light on the origin of Europeans
I already debunked all of this with the quotes I posted but of course you avoid them and can only copy/paste what other members tried to gather. Again stop being racist towards north africans and accept the diversity that exist in Africa.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
Early european farmers had WHG ancestry unlike anatolian farmers and this component peaks among modern south europeans especially sardinians.
Here with a proper modern and recognized tool :
the fact that they have both IBM and EEF clearly confirms that they have north african ancestors which is also supported by archaeology btw.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Yeah
Sahra's such a barrier
that people have been living in it, less lone crossing it, since it reformed 5000 yrs ago.
Talk about copying Eurocentric webmates? You gotta do better.
[ 27. December 2021, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Tukuler ]
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
You have failed to even begin to successfully demonstrate that Fula genomics is not as old as the Neolithic Levant.
Again youcome with your superiority attitude that anything by a Berber(sic) is better than anything a slave uses no matter if mainstream. Bottomline the blk must be wrong in your mind. Proof? You have not admitred the factual validity of anything a blk here has presented or demonstrated to you.
And that is why you're on your way to being silenced in this thread but not this forum (unless you mend your racist attitude).
And what's this rinky dink tool of yours producing an output chart I've yet to see in any published peer review article or report?
Man you such a big waste of time
I'm getting tired combing thru your bullish and correcting it.
Please do me a favor and post the stuff that doesn't measure up or pass 'objective' scrutiny.
New Member Introductions that has no moderator and so no need for moderator to weed out the rubbish you sift into what little valid contributions you make.
It's not easy, I won't enjoy it, but I'm simply deleting it when you post purely dee bullsh.
Ppl who like it or want to spin their wheels rehashing old stuff can follow you to NMI or track you on DESHRET or EGYPTOLOGY or HETHERU'S CORNER --because the membership does like talking to you.
My intent for KEMET is to go beyond the previous material posted here, except to expand on some themes, and begin broaching new paradigms and material as presented by all but especially the black voices no one wants to hear. Yet all must expect me interloping and raising the bar, not that any MUST follow suit
BUT wouldn't it be wonderful to have a forum outspoken or independent minded blx can post to but not allowed to be Black uber alles promoters rather to accept critical analysis when it over turns cherished beliefs.
Don't say I ain't give you a chance but you don't play right even after repeatedly admonished what's not cricket for KEMET which has a bent not like the other forums.
quote:Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: There's no such thing as EEF outside of science based speculation.
The early European farmers were not Europeans. They were migrants debarking from Anatolia.
What so-called EEF is? Haven't the foggiest.
The Fulani element uncovered by ADMIXTURE earliest detection is Neolithic Levant samples.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
SOrry ya'll
Nah me cyaan tek ee no mo
Goodbye KEMET Hello NMI
This way you and those of a mind to can continue completely unfettered.
Disrupt here to your full psychotic desire You shall not do so @ KEMET where ever else you are permitted to despite numerous member etiquette complaints
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