posted
I reproduced the title of the video, it is not mine. I am hoping you guys can translate all the stuff the commentator speaks on into a simple form I can understand. Is the video content factual or more eurocentrism?
By the way, this video is featured on WorldStar Hiphop. So it's getting world wide coverage. Link below.
posted
I suggest that you do a deep research of the funders of Max Planck Association. I also suggest you look at the history of their Nazi past presidents.(oops!) Then go take another viewing of the "Matrix" movie. Then decide what pill you will take.
Posts: 46 | From: Berkeley Ca | Registered: Aug 2018
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quote:Originally posted by Black Crystal: I reproduced the title of the video, it is not mine. I am hoping you guys can translate all the stuff the commentator speaks on into a simple form I can understand. Is the video content factual or more eurocentrism?
By the way, this video is featured on WorldStar Hiphop. So it's getting world wide coverage. Link below.
Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods
Verena J. Schuenemann, Alexander Peltzer, Beatrix Welte, W. Paul van Pelt, Martyna Molak, Chuan-Chao Wang, Anja Furtwängler, Christian Urban, Ella Reiter, Kay Nieselt, Barbara Teßmann, Michael Francken, Katerina Harvati, Wolfgang Haak, Stephan Schiffels & Johannes Krause
Egypt, located on the isthmus of Africa, is an ideal region to study historical population dynamics due to its geographic location and documented interactions with ancient civilizations in Africa, Asia and Europe. Particularly, in the first millennium BCE Egypt endured foreign domination leading to growing numbers of foreigners living within its borders possibly contributing genetically to the local population. Here we present 90 mitochondrial genomes as well as genome-wide data sets from three individuals obtained from Egyptian mummies. The samples recovered from Middle Egypt span around 1,300 years of ancient Egyptian history from the New Kingdom to the Roman Period. Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times. This analysis establishes ancient Egyptian mummies as a genetic source to study ancient human history and offers the perspective of deciphering Egypt’s past at a genome-wide level.
quote:Originally posted by Before Chrisna: I suggest that you do a deep research of the funders of Max Planck Association. I also suggest you look at the history of their Nazi past presidents.(oops!) Then go take another viewing of the "Matrix" movie. Then decide what pill you will take.
I am only interested in the study and results. I could care less about motives. I am not a scientist nor am I versed in reading these kinds of research papers. I was hoping you guys could condense the study into a simple summary for me to understand.
quote:Originally posted by Before Chrisna: I suggest that you do a deep research of the funders of Max Planck Association. I also suggest you look at the history of their Nazi past presidents.(oops!) Then go take another viewing of the "Matrix" movie. Then decide what pill you will take.
I am only interested in the study and results. I could care less about motives. I am not a scientist nor am I versed in reading these kinds of research papers. I was hoping you guys could condense the study into a simple summary for me to understand.
90 mummies were analyzed for maternal DNA (mtDNA mitochondrial)mostly from later time period but a few others as well. The haplogroups, were many 3 mummies, some of the 3 older also had paternal DNA tested in addition to the paternal,complete genome. Of the 3 one had North African paternal DNA. Most of the mummies tested were late period, the DNA, maternal on their mother's side is considered Near Eastern and Anatolian (Turkish) and European but the paternal not tested. Later mainstream media articles even left out the main Near Eastern part and just said European. So they made the over-reaching conclusion based on this one location site and mainly maternal DNA only "ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times." Also they made a conclusion not comparing to all Africans, just Sub Saharan.
A new article was written critiquing the original article,
quote:Originally posted by Before Chrisna: I suggest that you do a deep research of the funders of Max Planck Association. I also suggest you look at the history of their Nazi past presidents.(oops!) Then go take another viewing of the "Matrix" movie. Then decide what pill you will take.
I am only interested in the study and results. I could care less about motives. I am not a scientist nor am I versed in reading these kinds of research papers. I was hoping you guys could condense the study into a simple summary for me to understand.
90 mummies were analyzed for maternal DNA (mtDNA mitochondrial)mostly from later time period but a few others as well. The haplogroups, were many 3 mummies, some of the 3 older also had paternal DNA tested in addition to the paternal,complete genome. Of the 3 one had North African paternal DNA. Most of the mummies tested were late period, the DNA, maternal on their mother's side is considered Near Eastern and Anatolian (Turkish) and European but the paternal not tested. Later mainstream media articles even left out the main Near Eastern part and just said European. So they made the over-reaching conclusion based on this one location site and mainly maternal DNA only "ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times." Also they made a conclusion not comparing to all Africans, just Sub Saharan.
A new article was written critiquing the original article,
Fact is that 90 mummies over a time span of 1300 years were tested and 89 had no subsaharan African mdna. The 3 mummies whot got their autosomal DNA tested were almost fully Caucasiod or predominantly Caucasiod. So BOTH types of genomic material showed that ancient Egyptians shared little DNA with modern sub-Saharan Africans. Instead, their closest relatives were people living during the Neolithic and Bronze ages in an area known as the Levant. What was also remarkable, the mummies were more closely related to ancient Europeans and Anatolians than to modern Egyptians.
I recall reading that the negroid admxiture is 0% in the two Pre-Ptolemaic samples. The 2 Pre-Ptolemaic mummies belong to the same J1a2a2-Z2324 and J2b1-PF7314 Y haplogroups that the Bronze Age Levant samples had.
If the 3 mummies were fully, predominantly racially black or mulattoes that would be another story.
Besides many of the tested mummies were also from the period of the Nubian Dynasty. Bear also in mind that none of the 3 tested mummies had Greek or Roman or any European admixture at all.
The genetic experts could also detect that one ancient Egyptian individual had a derived allele at the SLC24A5 locus, which contributes to lighter skin Pigmentation. This allele SLC24A5 accounts for lighter skin in Europeans too.
Again the fact that the mdna of 89 of the 90 tested mummies (despite of the presence of the Nubians in ancient Egypt) were not negroid but Caucasoid is a strong indicator that the native, local Egyptians were not so called black but mostly Caucasiod.
The afrocentric myth that ancient Egypt was all racially black is dead.
Posts: 49 | From: Germany | Registered: Oct 2015
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posted
First, Race is not a genetic construct in the first place, It's phenotypic. And Black people can be more Caucasoid or Negroid in phenotype. As many have already said, you cannot call a Adamanese or Melanesian Black and then argue Blackness is isolated to people who are genetically related to modern Sub Saharan Africans. The data consistently comes back that the phenotype of the southern Egyptians that founded the country looked like Ethiopians. And you can say it's "not Negroid" all you want--whatever term you choose to use, the Ethiopian phenotype is still socially regarded as Black. Terms like "Negroid" do not even reflect how races are divided in real life and have no meaning beyond the anthropological fairytales you tell yourself.
Oh and in case you can't read: The samples were selected entirely from ONE burial site in northern Egypt. Not ten. not one hundred. One. From an area of Egypt that was barely populated until the late period as the authors have confessed. If you're no understanding why that information is at all is important, it's because your own study also cites large scale immigration from Canaan starting from the second millennium BC. You don't yet realize that's before any of the samples were ever born, much less before a single one of them died? Hell, Even the formal rule of Asiatics who'd migrated into the north predates the remains used in the study. But continue your selective reading. It seems you are quite thirsty for a non-Black narrative.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by real expert: Fact is that 90 mummies over a time span of 1300 years were tested and 89 had no subsaharan African mdna.
they make this statement in the abstract
______________ "Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times.
____________________ "
Yet only four of these mummies were not of the late period. And of the four older mummies none was tested for the paternal YDNA
And for all but three of these mummies they only have half of the picture, mtDNA not YDNA
And if you compare that to North Africans in general, North Africans have a lot of West Eurasian DNA yet their YDNA, yet their paternal lineage is overwhelmingly African.
And one of the three mummies was E1b1b1 and that is believed to be of horn African origin
And that along with the fact that this is only one particular site on Egypt so there isn't justification for their broad conclusions about "the ancient Egyptians"
quote:Originally posted by real expert:
The 3 mummies whot got their autosomal DNA tested were almost fully Caucasiod or predominantly Caucasiod.
And if we look at a Pharaoh that was tested for YDNA, Ramses III he and another mummy in is burial site thought to be his son by the STR-predictor determined to share the Y chromosomal haplogroup E1b1a1-M2.
Revisiting the harem conspiracy and death of Ramesses III: anthropological, forensic, radiological, and genetic study BMJ 2012; 345 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.e8268 (Published 17 December 2012) Zahi Hawass, et al
Haplogroup E1b1a is the main haplogroup in sub-Saharan Africa, where it reaches frequencies of over 80% in West Africa.[2] It has been hypothesized that E1b1a originated in Northern Africa and then spread to sub-Saharan Africa with the Bantu expansion [3]. However, Rosa et al. (2007) and others suggest that it likely originated in and expanded from West Africa (i.e., the Sudanese Belt) within the last 20,000 to 30,000 years based on the fact that the frequency and diversity of E1b1a in this region are among the highest found.[1][4][5] E-M2 is considered to be the signature Y-DNA for the Bantu expansion, however, it should be considered the signature y-DNA for the Niger-Congo phylum or language, which means that E1b1a was probably the most common chromosome in West Africa when the Niger-Congo language emerged at least 15,000 YBP(years before present).E1b1a is the single most common Y-chromosome haplogroup among people of Sub-Saharan African descent both inside and outside of Africa. It is observed at frequencies of 58%-60% in African Americans.[
quote:Originally posted by real expert: This allele SLC24A5 accounts for lighter skin in Europeans too.
Again the fact that the mdna of 89 of the 90 tested mummies (despite of the presence of the Nubians in ancient Egypt) were not negroid but Caucasoid is a strong indicator that the native, local Egyptians were not so called black but mostly Caucasiod.
The afrocentric myth that ancient Egypt was all racially black is dead.
Fact is that they used bayesian and markov statistics to filter data, to make the data (ancient Egypt) appear different.
From the paper:
quote:To determine the most suitable parameter set and substitution method, we used jModelTest v2.1.10 (ref. 65) and selected the parameters suggested by the Akaike and Bayesian information criterion (AIC and BIC). [...] We used the 90 mitochondrial genomes obtained in this study, together with 135 modern Egyptian mtDNA genomes from Pagani and colleagues17 and Kujanova and colleagues30 for Bayesian reconstruction of population size changes through time. [...] We conducted Bayesian inference using strict clock with an uninformative CTMC reference prior for each partition and Bayesian SkyGrid tree prior with 50 parameters (gamma prior with shape 0.001 and scale 1,000). [...] The obtained Bayesian SkyGrid plot indicates a fairly stable slightly decreasing effective population size for the studied population over the last 5,000 years (Fig. 3d and Supplementary Fig. 2).
An ancient Black Egypt is written all over the history of the Nile Valley. Pre and post ancient Egypt.
Now, go get yourself some sunblock lotion, because it's about to get hot these up coming days. You know the Sahara heat has reached Western Europe.
quote: ‘Hell is coming’: Western Europe battles unprecedented heat wave as France records its highest temperature in history
Countries including France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, and Portugal are experiencing a massive heat wave that began on Wednesday, with hot air coming from the Sahara.
Allele SLC24A5 implies lighter skin. It doesn't imply white European.
I understand it's complicated for you.
quote: Bivariate analyses distinguish Jebel Sahaba from European and circumpolar samples, but do not tend to segregate them from recent North or sub-Saharan African samples
~T. W. Holliday* 2013 Population Affinities of the Jebel Sahaba Skeletal Sample: Limb Proportion Evidence
quote: "As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or "Negroid") groups
[...]
This evidence suggests that the process of state formation itself may have been mainly an indigenous process, but that it may have occurred in association with in-migration to the Abydos region of the Nile Valley. This potential in-migration may have occurred particularly during the EDyn and OK.
~Sonia R. Zakrzewski. (2007). Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 132:501-509)
quote: Thus, not only did Nubia have a prominent role in the origin of Ancient Egypt, it was also a key area for the origin of the entire African pastoral tradition.
~Gatto M. 2009.
The Nubian Pastoral Culture as Link between Egypt and Africa: A View from the Archaeological Record Egypt in its African Context: BAR S2204- Archaeopress. 21-29
quote: Moreover, although the Nubian and Egyptian samples formed one well-distributed group, the Egyptian samples clustered in the upper left region, while the Nubians concentrated in the lower right of the plot. One line can be drawn that would separate the closely dispersed Egyptians and Nubians. The predynastic Egyptian samples clustered together (Badari and Naqada), while Gizeh most closely groups with the Lisht sample.
~Godde K.
An Examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development? Homo. 2009;60(5):389-404. Epub 2009 Sep 19.
As a matter of fact you've got some explaining to do,
AuthorityRuler: Mentuhotep II biography Culture/period 11th Dynasty Date 2055BC-2004BC Finds pot Excavated /Findspot: Temple of Mentuhotep(Africa,Egypt,Upper Egypt,Deir el-Bahri (Thebes),Temple of Mentuhotep)
posted
Can someone explain to me here (or in PM) how bayesian and markov statistics might create dubious results. I'm not familiar with it.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Ase: Can someone explain to me here (or in PM) how bayesian and markov statistics might create dubious results. I'm not familiar with it.
The simplest way to put it is that you take a (imaginary/ estimate) hypothetical number and make a comparison, until you get the result (likeness/ probability) you are looking for (prejudice). And walla there you have a probability.
Notice there was very little to compare with to begin with. Nor did they tell us what "sub Saharan" populations have been compared.
Considering the explanations we now know that it is based on a biased model. When you study the place called Abusir, you'll find that the Abusir paper is based on a biased model. Since Abusir el-Malek wasn't the only place and certainly not the oldest place in Egypt, or the place that was most inhabited.
quote: Abusir el-Malek
The cemetery continued to be used for centuries, with the earlier shaft tombs being filled with later burials from the Greek, Roman, and Islamic periods. Thousands of individuals were buried at the site over hundreds of years of use. […]
Abusir el-Malek is one of the archaeological sites that has been particularly heavily looted.
Another explanation is the likelihood that "real expert and people like him" will be a victim of melanoma, during this summertime (Sahara weather), is of greater probability.
Notice I didn't include other ethnic groups (you yourself perhaps already did, as bias for comparison).
Large cities like NY, London have regions with multiethnic groups. Do these represent all of GB or the USA?
See, I had this discusion with an Italian dude 2-years before the hoax-paper came out. He was creating all these weird flips and twits. When these folk speak 70% is lies and 30% is truth.
And I showed him this following NY burial below..., so I am not surprised at the Abusir response. Many of these obscure papers make their way through white identity extremist platforms first and from there into the field of "troll science". Remember that these same people support "IQ race theories".
African Burial Ground is the oldest and largest known excavated burial ground in North America for both free and enslaved Africans.
By the logic above one could claim that America in her entiretly was all (Central-West) African in origin.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
You guys remember back in the day when these people pretended that all they were doing was "White Knighting" for the Modern Egyptians against the evil Afrocentrists...how the Egyptians have always been the same...all it took was on sample from one site from the late period in Egypt for these white knights to show their true agenda.
There is a whole mountain of archeological and anthropological data that is suddenly ignored because of one DNA study and a sensational Media circus.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: You guys remember back in the day when these people pretended that all they were doing was "White Knighting" for the Modern Egyptians against the evil Afrocentrists...how the Egyptians have always been the same...all it took was on sample from one site from the late period in Egypt for these white knights to show their true agenda.
There is a whole mountain of archeological and anthropological data that is suddenly ignored because of one DNA study and a sensational Media circus.
They speak with a fork tongue, 70% lies, 15 doubtfully and 15% truth.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ase: Can someone explain to me here (or in PM) how bayesian and markov statistics might create dubious results. I'm not familiar with it.
First watch until ~3:10 then rewatch 1:50... Apriori assumptions go there( "P(H)") to start up generally working models in a lot of cases.
posted
I've always wondered why they hail DNA from mummies of Late Period Middle Egypt as the be all end all and not say Old Kingdom Giza or better yet Old Kingdom Thebes or Nekhen where pharonic civilization began.
I mean did they think people are too stupid to question their blatantly obvious straw doll construction?!
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: I've always wondered why they hail DNA from mummies of Late Period Middle Egypt as the be all end all and not say Old Kingdom Giza or better yet Old Kingdom Thebes or Nekhen where pharonic civilization began.
I mean did they think people are too stupid to question their blatantly obvious straw doll construction?!
Remember when people like Zahi Hawass claimed that a genetic study showed pyramid workers from Giza were more or less the same as modern Egyptians (despite never linking to the published report)? This was back in the early 2000s, when ausar was still a regular poster and ES had only begun its career as a forum on African Egypt.
If somebody in Egypt actually had a paper like this in their academic backlog for all those years, why did they never get around to publishing it for all the world to see? You'd think the Max Planck study's publication and media press would prompt the Egyptian researchers to share their own data. Instead all they've given us are some royal mummies' autosomal STRs and one 19th century Pharaoh's Y-DNA haplogroup. They need to step up their game.
posted
^ From what I hear, DNA tests have been performed on Egyptian mummies since the 90s, but the Egyptian SCA has been keeping the results locked and guarded for guess the reasons. It wasn't until the 2000 ones that they started leaking out some data on royal mummies but only on select ones.
Now you have this Max Planck study with full blown DNA profiles of these specific mummies from the late period. Go figure.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Some Wordpress blogger assembled this chart comparing one of the Abusir El-Meleq mummies' ancestry proportions to those of three modern Egyptian samples.
Observations of Interest
JK2911's reported Northeast African ancestry is 7.62%, versus 2.38-4.25% for the three modern Egyptian samples.
JK2911's reported West Asian ancestry is 3.48%, versus 5.61% for Lower Egyptians and 6.4% for Copts.
JK2911's reported Eastern Mediterranean ancestry is 43.35%, versus 49.58-54.47% for all modern Egyptian samples.
Two West Eurasian ancestries that actually do appear elevated in JK2911 relative to modern Egyptians are "Atlantic" (4.23% versus 2-3.92%) and Western Mediterranean (16.30% versus 10.94-16.30%).
I dunno if the site has charts for the other two mummies, but it's not looking like JK2911 is evidence for AEs being more Middle Eastern than modern Egyptians. Rather, the modern Egyptians have less Northeast African and more Middle Eastern as well as more "sub-Saharan" ancestry. Hardly the validation the Euronuts were banking on.
posted
Its the media circus who loves to spin and create outlandish titles that Dog whistle at the white majority audience. We can see examples of this with the graecopithecus articles, the Tut R1b Media circus etc. The Abusir was no different, and Max Plank deceptively ttitled their paper in a way to not only play off the Media but to spread their Race-Realism/Dynastic Race agenda, and had the media eating out of their hands. The White Knights suddenly did a 360, all of a Sudden Egyptians were more European all along..."We Were Kings Dude!!!!"
all previous Archeolocial and Anthropological studies and results be dammned.
Dont worry though, Max Plank like the lying deceptice Dog Whistling racists they are inserted in the article(Near the End so far from the Sensation dog whisling title) that this was only one result and samples from the South of Egypt will probably be more African, so they could claim objectability and pretend they're different from the Race Science Fascist past that led to the Genocide of Millions of Jews and Tazmanians etc. Dont worry David Reich says he's "concerned" about racists using his opinion paper as a way to justify racism. Fascism is growing world wide but dont worry, We can all sleep at night...David Reich is "Concerned"
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ From what I hear, DNA tests have been performed on Egyptian mummies since the 90s, but the Egyptian SCA has been keeping the results locked and guarded for guess the reasons. It wasn't until the 2000 ones that they started leaking out some data on royal mummies but only on select ones.
Now you have this Max Planck study with full blown DNA profiles of these specific mummies from the late period. Go figure.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
It doesnt really matte TBH, at the end of the day the Media Circus embedded a white European Egypt in the minds of Millions of people. Max Planx won, their deceptive Title worked like a charm. I mean I actually remember reading people questioning the evidence of Egyptian predynastic culture coming from the South, The Mountains of Evidence was thrown out the window, for one Genetic study. It took Hundreds of Years of Blood, sweat and tears, both European and African peoples giving their lives to re-discover and understand Ancient Egyptian culture and its origins, even Modern Egyptlogy came to the conclusion from the evidence that Egypt was a product of Africa. One Study tried to flush all that down the toilet and millions of people ate out of their hands.
quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: Hardly the validation the Euronuts were banking on.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
What I don't get is if today's scholars, especially white ones, concede ancient Egypt was a product of Africa and belongs to Africa's legacy and history, why do we keep pushing the colorism issue? Isn't Africa a melting pot of phenotype and genome? I mean, can we have it both ways? We argue Africa is the most diverse in terms of genetics and phenotype, yet have a problem with the idea ancient Egyptians were Nubia's converse in appearance. I just find it odd we want to have our cake and eat it too.
Posts: 59 | From: Queens NYC | Registered: Jul 2019
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posted
^^^^Its not about having cake and eating it or having a problem with leukoderm Egyptians, no one here denies it and I personally advocated as such for years that Egypt had Leukoderm so called "White" people, esp. in the Delta and North of the Nation from the Predynastic. My problem is trying to claim or pretend that There was no significant indigenous population of Dark Skinned Tropically adapted people, so called "Black" Egyptians who were a core component of Egyptian culture and heritage. This isnt some Afrocentric myth, this isnt West Africans trying to "Steal" Egypt or claim to be Egyptian, this is a bonafide undisputable fact backed by years of blood, sweat and tears of digging, classifying, decoding, and studying the Human remains and the archeological evidence. White Egyptologists and Scholars arent saying Egypt is primarily African because they are PC loving liberals, They're saying it because thats what the evidence is showing. Yet Alt Right Eurocentrics are having their damn cake and have ate it and sh%t it out on the pavement. Despite the Evidence, Despite EVEN EGYPTOLOGISTS saying Egypt was African with a more southerly Tropical core component, go on any Forum or Youtube video anywhere and any mention of Egypt's African heritage is downplayed and any attempt to discuss it is met with "We Wuz Kangs". All the while Europeans and European diasporans, the Heroic White Knights of the Modern Egyptians get to run around with Mainstream Media backed sensational claims of a European Egypt, and not one meme or jest is leveled their way.
Eating that cake and shitting it out on the pavement...
The Funny part is there's literally Black Egyptians still alive today, but we want cake and to eat it...
No I just want to discuss Egypt where the people who founded it who still live in Luxor, Aswan, Kom Ombos and Elephantine are recognized and their heritage isnt pissed on by sensation Eurocentric media circuses.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
And lets not discuss so called Black presense on any square inch of the earth outside of Africa, god forbid. We can discuss and entertain Leukoderms inhabiting all sort of Empires and Nations in Ancient Africa, but mention ONE black outside the mythical entity of Sub-Sahara and the whole internet explodes, 100s of videos and Forum topics and Memes etc. decry the one Black Actor playing a Medieval European, despite the evidence of Africans and so called "black" people living in Europe, Asia and the Americans during historic times.
but its only Africanists who want Cake and to eat it....
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Add to the fact that he's reportedly from NYC, much like two trolls we've had in the past who claimed to be black and yet had a very similar posting style and subject matter. Albeit, each of those claimed to be from different neighborhoods in NYC.
I think we're dealing with some weird cult of black racialist, anti-Afrocentric New Yorkers here.
quote:Originally posted by real expert: This allele SLC24A5 accounts for lighter skin in Europeans too.
Again the fact that the mdna of 89 of the 90 tested mummies (despite of the presence of the Nubians in ancient Egypt) were not negroid but Caucasoid is a strong indicator that the native, local Egyptians were not so called black but mostly Caucasiod.
The afrocentric myth that ancient Egypt was all racially black is dead.
Fact is that they used bayesian and markov statistics to filter data, to make the data (ancient Egypt) appear different.
From the paper:
quote:To determine the most suitable parameter set and substitution method, we used jModelTest v2.1.10 (ref. 65) and selected the parameters suggested by the Akaike and Bayesian information criterion (AIC and BIC). [...] We used the 90 mitochondrial genomes obtained in this study, together with 135 modern Egyptian mtDNA genomes from Pagani and colleagues17 and Kujanova and colleagues30 for Bayesian reconstruction of population size changes through time. [...] We conducted Bayesian inference using strict clock with an uninformative CTMC reference prior for each partition and Bayesian SkyGrid tree prior with 50 parameters (gamma prior with shape 0.001 and scale 1,000). [...] The obtained Bayesian SkyGrid plot indicates a fairly stable slightly decreasing effective population size for the studied population over the last 5,000 years (Fig. 3d and Supplementary Fig. 2).
An ancient Black Egypt is written all over the history of the Nile Valley. Pre and post ancient Egypt.
Now, go get yourself some sunblock lotion, because it's about to get hot these up coming days. You know the Sahara heat has reached Western Europe.
quote: ‘Hell is coming’: Western Europe battles unprecedented heat wave as France records its highest temperature in history
Countries including France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, and Portugal are experiencing a massive heat wave that began on Wednesday, with hot air coming from the Sahara.
Allele SLC24A5 implies lighter skin. It doesn't imply white European.
I understand it's complicated for you.
quote: Bivariate analyses distinguish Jebel Sahaba from European and circumpolar samples, but do not tend to segregate them from recent North or sub-Saharan African samples
~T. W. Holliday* 2013 Population Affinities of the Jebel Sahaba Skeletal Sample: Limb Proportion Evidence
quote: "As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or "Negroid") groups
[...]
This evidence suggests that the process of state formation itself may have been mainly an indigenous process, but that it may have occurred in association with in-migration to the Abydos region of the Nile Valley. This potential in-migration may have occurred particularly during the EDyn and OK.
~Sonia R. Zakrzewski. (2007). Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 132:501-509)
quote: Thus, not only did Nubia have a prominent role in the origin of Ancient Egypt, it was also a key area for the origin of the entire African pastoral tradition.
~Gatto M. 2009.
The Nubian Pastoral Culture as Link between Egypt and Africa: A View from the Archaeological Record Egypt in its African Context: BAR S2204- Archaeopress. 21-29
quote: Moreover, although the Nubian and Egyptian samples formed one well-distributed group, the Egyptian samples clustered in the upper left region, while the Nubians concentrated in the lower right of the plot. One line can be drawn that would separate the closely dispersed Egyptians and Nubians. The predynastic Egyptian samples clustered together (Badari and Naqada), while Gizeh most closely groups with the Lisht sample.
~Godde K.
An Examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development? Homo. 2009;60(5):389-404. Epub 2009 Sep 19.
As a matter of fact you've got some explaining to do,
AuthorityRuler: Mentuhotep II biography Culture/period 11th Dynasty Date 2055BC-2004BC Finds pot Excavated /Findspot: Temple of Mentuhotep(Africa,Egypt,Upper Egypt,Deir el-Bahri (Thebes),Temple of Mentuhotep)
quote:Originally posted by Ase: Can someone explain to me here (or in PM) how bayesian and markov statistics might create dubious results. I'm not familiar with it.
First watch until ~3:10 then rewatch 1:50... Apriori assumptions go there( "P(H)") to start up generally working models in a lot of cases.
Could that have any effect on other aDNA studies obtaining uniparental (mtDNA or Y-DNA) data? Abusir el-Meleq can't be the only sample tested with that kind of algorithm.
posted
I have a question. Bayesian and Markov statistics are used, example, in speech recognition and weather forecast, and they work well. What are the problems when implemented in DNA data?
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: Remember when people like Zahi Hawass claimed that a genetic study showed pyramid workers from Giza were more or less the same as modern Egyptians (despite never linking to the published report)? This was back in the early 2000s, when ausar was still a regular poster and ES had only begun its career as a forum on African Egypt.
The study Hawass spoke of was commissioned by the SCA, but I have yet to see it as well. I will say that I find his claim to be exaggerated if not false as it difficult to believe the DNA of ancient Gizans is the same as the moderns but is there continuity? I would say it is likely.
Here are some of the many modern Giza locals:
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: Some Wordpress blogger assembled this chart comparing one of the Abusir El-Meleq mummies' ancestry proportions to those of three modern Egyptian samples.
Observations of Interest
JK2911's reported Northeast African ancestry is 7.62%, versus 2.38-4.25% for the three modern Egyptian samples.
JK2911's reported West Asian ancestry is 3.48%, versus 5.61% for Lower Egyptians and 6.4% for Copts.
JK2911's reported Eastern Mediterranean ancestry is 43.35%, versus 49.58-54.47% for all modern Egyptian samples.
Two West Eurasian ancestries that actually do appear elevated in JK2911 relative to modern Egyptians are "Atlantic" (4.23% versus 2-3.92%) and Western Mediterranean (16.30% versus 10.94-16.30%).
I dunno if the site has charts for the other two mummies, but it's not looking like JK2911 is evidence for AEs being more Middle Eastern than modern Egyptians. Rather, the modern Egyptians have less Northeast African and more Middle Eastern as well as more "sub-Saharan" ancestry. Hardly the validation the Euronuts were banking on.
^ As to the last part about modern Egyptians having more SS ancestry than their ancient counterparts. Has anyone answered why even modern Middle Eastern Bedouin A have SS ancestry as well and to a lesser extent Jordanians and Palestinians??
The SS component spikes even higher in modern Algerians and Tunisians but no doubt they will just attribute all this to "slave" ancestry.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Funny how Slave ancestry in North Africa is only mentioned when it comes to SSA ancestry, despite the history of white slavery in North Africa and the Arab world.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
The SS component spikes even higher in modern Algerians and Tunisians but no doubt they will just attribute all this to "slave" ancestry.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Arwa: I have a question. Bayesian and Markov statistics are used, example, in speech recognition and weather forecast, and they work well. What are the problems when implemented in DNA data?
My criticism on Bayesian statistics is, the data tend to overfit.
Well the problem is not so much the statistical formulas that are used so much as how the data samples are assessed and how they are plugged into the formulas. For example when looking at multivariate multidimensional scaling (mms), two important factors are sample size and location of samples taken. Having too small a sample size from a region and too large from another can give skewed results which is almost always the case when applied to entities like craniomorphic traits.
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