Topic: Igbo People Recognized as Israelites by Sephardic Jewish Rabbinical Court
Tazarah
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@the lioness
Did you miss the part where the source I posted says J people assimilated into afro-asiatic culture and abandoned their original language? Language proves nothing.
Haplogroup J is not semitic or afro-asiatic in origin, they assimilated into semitic or afro-asiatic culture after migrating.
The Paleo-Hebrew and Phoenician alphabets developed in the wake of the Bronze Age collapse, out of their immediate predecessor script Proto-Canaanite (Late Proto-Sinaitic) during the 13th to 12th centuries BCE, and earlier Proto-Sinaitic scripts. Haplogroup J-P58 has an age of ~5.4ky in Semitic groups, and this is in concordance with the 5,750 years ago origin of Semitic languages
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Old Hebrew script derived directly from Phoenician, and Christopher Rollston contends that Old Hebrew script did not split off from its Phoenician predecessor until the ninth century B.C.E. The Hebrew language existed well before then; the oldest extant Hebrew language texts are recorded in Phoenician script.
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Tazarah
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@the lioness
Haplogroup J (majority of modern jewish people) is not Levantine in origin. Posts: 2578 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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Haplogroup J (majority of modern jewish people) is not Levantine in origin.
try to keep I just posted, All Jewish lineages of haplogroup J1-M267 fall into the subclade J-P58 which evolved in the Levant, that is where they had migrated to and this new sub clade evolved, the one Jewish priests carry
So expect us to believe that all these hap E people are Israelites? The entire E group?
Where are the Hebrew speakers? It doesn't make sense
we'll wait for your explanation
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Tazarah
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@the lioness
You've already been proven wrong. J is from the caucusus region and migrated to the Levant and assimilated into the pre-existing afro-asiatic culture. You didn't even know this until I provided the studies. E was the founding haplogroup of the Judaeans, according to geneticists. At this point you're just grasping for straws. Language does not prove anything and is a weak argument for a debunked position. Run along now Posts: 2578 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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You've already been proven wrong. J is from the caucusus region and migrated to the Levant and assimilated into the pre-existing afro-asiatic culture. You didn't even know this until I provided the studies. E was the founding haplogroup of the Judaeans, according to geneticists. At this point you're just grasping for straws. Language does not prove anything and is a weak argument for a debunked position. Run along now
You are uninformed to the fact the Hebrew and Judean culture are more recent than their much older language family ancestors
and many Jews in modern times who carry haplogroup E1b1b today also include people like Albert Einstein
But of course if you want to go by Sephardic tradition the bloodline is matrilineal
Why do they do it that way? Because if the woman gets pregnant and has a baby the child is irrefutably her child. But a man cannot prove it, only with a blood test in modern times, he cannot easily prove the child has inherited his ancestry
I have noticed a couple of people in these forums are interest in Judaism and it traditions Your only interest in it seem to be bloodline as if that has any value
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Thanks for your opinion, but that's all it is. An opinion with no facts. The document I linked to the rabbinical court ruling explains how the Igbo people were forced into christianity and other religions as they were conquered, but that they are still bloodline Israelites. Customs and practices do not change your bloodline or genetics.
I will post the link to the rabbinical court ruling again:
That document is not a scientific study. Seems mostly fairy tales and wishful thinking. Seems that some people rather seek refuge in pseudo history than recognize the real history and the original religion of the majority of Igbo people.
It seems many people today are not proud of their real origin, but rather make up things than risk to be connected with their "pagan" origins.
One get the impression that some people think that West African cultures were unable to create their own cultures but must all the time have input from ancient Egypt or ancient Israel. It is a deeply colonial way of thinking.
This is also noticeable among some African Americans who rather dream that they descend from ancient Israelites, Egyptians, Olmecs or everything but their real ancestors.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2699 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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what you have there is a Familypedia page If you click on words there it links to Wikipedia which has much more detailed information with references numbers mixed in the text
for instance if you click on that Familypedia above "E3b "
Approximately 35% to 43% of Jewish men are in the paternal line known as haplogroup J[a] and its sub-haplogroups. This haplogroup is particularly present in the Middle East and Southern Europe.[33] 15% to 30% are in haplogroup E1b1b,[b] (or E-M35) and its sub-haplogroups which is common in the Middle East, North Africa, and Southern Europe.
In Ashkenazi (and Sephardi) Jews, the most common paternal lineages generally are E1b1b, J2, and J1, with others found at lesser rates.
We are going in circles now Above the chart I already posted
The lower chart, Ashkenazi show the E3b (E1b1b) sub clades 5 different articles are referenced For instance the top line Hammer on of the clades 3% the other 17% that is a total of 20% 20% of Ashkenazi Jews in that Hammer study were E1b1b
And there are 4 more studies with similar percentages around 20%
So there you have it, when Famliypedia is talking about E3b, that is just another name for E1b1b
E1b1a (E3a) is not a descendant of E1b1b although they have a common ancestor
And as we can see there are 5 articles studying modern Ashkenazi Jews and about 20% of Ashkenazis were E3b aka E1b1b
And does this mean anybody who is E3b had Jewish ancestors? No
In other words you played yourself with that Familypedia
This haplogroup E3b is associated with the Eastern half of Africa and horn and North Africans carry this haplogroup as well as some Arabs Europeans but I have seen to documentation that Igbos do. Maybe some percentage do but you have yet to show evidence, no articles that document Igbos were tested and carry E3b
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Are you seriously referencing content from garfield reid? Is that what you do whenever you come across info I post that you don't like? Hilarious! So garfield the atheist has more authority on the topic than the sephardic rabbinical court?
I literally just did a presentation on Dante Fortson's channel a few hours ago exposing a lie that garfield and his crew have been telling about the black portuguese Jews for over a year. They got debunked and changed their position/moved the goal post and then lied about their original claims, receipts are right here:
"THE MAGIC MOVING GOAL POST - PRESENTED BY TAZARAH | URBAN APOLOGISTS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS"
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2713 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Ancient/classical writers always described Jews as being ethiopians (black africans).
Well, the Genesis apochryphon, which is an apochryphic book from Wadi Qumran and about 2000 years old describe Sarah in a way that shows their ideal of how a woman should look when regarded as beautiful. It is not black (or with kinky hair) but white with soft hair. Why would black people describe one of their ancestral mothers in such a fashion?
quote: 1. ______
2. ... how irresistible and beautiful is the image of her face; how 3. lovely h[er] foreh[ead, and] soft the hair of her head! How graceful are her eyes, and how precious her nose; every feature
4. of her face is radiating beauty! How lovely is her breast,and how beautiful her white complexion! As for her arms, how beautiful they are! And her hands, how
5. perfect they are! How [desirable] all the appearance of her hands! How graceful are her palms, and how long and thin all the fingers of her hands! Her legs
6. are of such beauty, and her thighs so perfectly apportioned!
This sculpture head is found in Israel and is about 2800 years old. It does not show a black person.
There is no tangible evidence that ancient Jews in the Levant were black. They looked like other Levantine peoples. Their descendants exist in the area still today.
Are you seriously referencing content from garfield reid? Is that what you do whenever you come across info I post that you don't like? Hilarious! So garfield the atheist has more authority on the topic than the sephardic rabbinical court?
I literally just did a presentation on Dante Fortson's channel a few hours ago exposing a lie that garfield and his crew have been telling about the black portuguese Jews for over a year. They got debunked and changed their position/moved the goal post and then lied about their original claims, receipts are right here:
"THE MAGIC MOVING GOAL POST - PRESENTED BY TAZARAH | URBAN APOLOGISTS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS"
Garfield is an agent against the people.. cointelpro/devil/
Been knowing this for years
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2713 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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Hap J not getting to the levant until the bronze age is SO SWEET.. they was so sure hap J built the pyramids..
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Tazarah
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@archeotyperyx
I've referenced historical sources, scientific studies, etc. All you've referenced is your useless opinion and a twisted personal interpretation of biblical scripture. This is the part where I stop taking you seriously... you are not worth the time and clearly are not on my level. Stick to cherrypicking images of "white" people.
Israelite Slaves in 14-15th Century BC Egypt -- Tomb of Rekhmire:
Tazarah
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@the lioness
Can you read? According to geneticists, your entire position is dead wrong and invalid. Haplogroup E is afro-asiatic, haplogroup J is not. The founders of the Judaean race were haplogroup E, haplogroup J has nothing to do with ancient Israel. Get over it?
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Tazarah
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@Yatunde Lisa
LOL exactly... yet he/she (the lioness) is 100% going to keep posting and spamming their pseudo nonsense, even though the facts could not be anymore clear.
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: @archeotyperyx
I've referenced historical sources, scientific studies, etc. All you've referenced is your useless opinion and a twisted personal interpretation of biblical scripture. This is the part where I stop taking you seriously... you are not worth the time and clearly are not on my level. Stick to cherrypicking images of "white" people.
Israelite Slaves in 14-15th Century BC Egypt -- Tomb of Rekhmire:
Hairy chest dude and coworker, enlargement from your URL link above, interesting Not exactly Igbo looking
From the tomb of the nobleman Rekhmire, 1479–1425 B.C
There is no proof that these are Israelites, they may or may not be related the tomb text for this painting:
"The captives that His Majesty has bought back to work in the temple of Amun".
"Making bricks to rebuild nine workshops of Amun in Karnak".
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Tazarah
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@the lioness
Who should we believe? Lioness, the egypt search troll/liar who gaslights 24/7? Or the actual scholars, professors, archaeologists, etc., who put the article together.
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^^ Yatunde Lisa, what do think of this? There are a lot of these "biblical scholars" usually Christians who look at Egyptian art and try to make certain pictures fit a bible narrative, that we are looking at "Israelite slaves" here do you buy that? so called Hoteps don't go for that but some BHI's do. Then you have some other BHI's for instance General Yahanna talking about that the Black Hebrews were the Hyksos What's the real deal in your opinion?
Tazarah
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Who should we believe? Lioness, the egypt search troll/liar who gaslights 24/7? Or the actual scholars, professors, archaeologists, etc., who put the article together.
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Tazarah
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@the lioness
The truth hurts so bad, doesn't it? Especially when your gaslighting doesn't work against the facts. You're pseudo, nobody believes your pseudo garbage.
Who should we believe? Lioness, the egypt search troll/liar who gaslights 24/7? Or the actual scholars, professors, archaeologists, etc., who put the article together.
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^^ I'm not impressed, even after you posted it 3 times I read peer reviewed research in science journals that aint one. It's an article in Biblical Archaeology Review magazine You have an article there that starts with a big bible quote, a religious text That is what they present as given, as truth then they look at Egyptian art and try to make it fit
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^ I'm not impressed, even after you posted it 3 times I read peer reviewed research in science journals that aint one. It's an article in Biblical Archaeology Review magazine You have an article there that starts with a big bible quote, a religious text That is what they present as given, as truth then they look at Egyptian art and try to make it fit
What makes them NOT Israelites?
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2713 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^ I'm not impressed, even after you posted it 3 times I read peer reviewed research in science journals that aint one. It's an article in Biblical Archaeology Review magazine You have an article there that starts with a big bible quote, a religious text That is what they present as given, as truth then they look at Egyptian art and try to make it fit
What makes them NOT Israelites?
I didn't say they weren't Israelites
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I've referenced historical sources, scientific studies, etc. All you've referenced is your useless opinion and a twisted personal interpretation of biblical scripture. This is the part where I stop taking you seriously... you are not worth the time and clearly are not on my level. Stick to cherrypicking images of "white" people.
Israelite Slaves in 14-15th Century BC Egypt -- Tomb of Rekhmire:
You just imagine things you have not proved anything more than pseudo historical babble.
Here are some pics of real Jews, not your black fantasy products
This head is actually found in Israel itself, it is not someone else's interpretation of them (bound by artistic conventions that you do not understand).
King Jehu, from the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III, 9th century BC
Lets jump forward in time to 79 AD, here is how the romans could depict Jews
Figures from the 300s AD, from mosaics in a synagogue in northern Israel.
We even have hair preserved of Jews from Jerusalem during the time of Christ and it is indeed no kinky Afro hair.
Seems some people can not accept their own roots but want to believe they are something else
It seems to be a sickness among some black people who are ashamed of their true roots and instead prefer fantasies about them being ancient Israelites, ancient Egyptians, ancient Olmecs, ancient Chinese or even ancient Vikings.
Better African Americans with West African roots accept their own historical and cultural past with deep roots in time
Real Igbo culture, not some wannabe Israelite wishful thinking.
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Tazarah
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@the lioness
You just literally said there is "no proof they are israelites".
Who should we believe? Lioness, the egypt search troll/liar who gaslights 24/7? Or the actual scholars, professors, archaeologists, etc., who put the article together.
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Tazarah
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@archeotypery
All you're doing is copying/pasting the same bogus talking points and images that white supremacists use. Where do you get your info from, stormfront? You and the lioness are no match for any of the info I've posted. Jews were always recorded as being "ethiopians" by ancient writers because they resembled black africans. No one cares about your cherry picked images. The image I shared from 14th-15th century BC egypt clearly depicts the Israelites as a black/negroid race of people.
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You just post same rubbish, you have probably never been in any museum and seen any real depictions of ancient Israelites or other ancient Semitic peoples. You just cherry pic info that you believe support your wannabe fantasies of being an Israelite.
Sad to see people who despise their real ancestors and cultural background.
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Tazarah
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@archeotypery
All I see is a butthurt pseudo troll throwing ad homs because he's been proven wrong by undeniable historical facts from multiple different sources produced by multiple different scholars.
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Haha, I understand that you have never been in the museums where they actually have ancient art which depicts real Israelites, not your Afro-fantasy Israelites.
Your so called "undeniable" facts are only the usual wannabe Israelite fantasies which some Blacks like to spout because they are ashamed over their real history. Sad.
I bet you do not even know any real Israelites.
Some Israelites and other Semites during 2000 years
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Tazarah
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@archeotypery
You realize the first image in the set you just posted is an artist reconstructiom/re-rendering, correct? In other words, it's not the original image. Thank you for further demonstrating your incompetence.
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I know it is an artistic rendering, but it is made from an original, and the people in the original are not black Africans either. I show pictures of Jews and other Semites from a period stretching over 2000 years, showing they were not Black "negroid" Africans. I recommend you to visit some museum some day where they have ancient depictions of ancient Jews and other ancient Semites.
I see you have nothing to show since you post same rubbish again and again.
Some more pictures of ancient Jews and other Semites. It is only in a fantasy that they were black "negroid" people. They were ancestors of Jews of today, and most like people who still live in Israel and Lebanon.
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: @archeotypery
14-15th century BC, Egypt. The genesis of the Israelite nation. Have a nice day, pseudo troll.
[/QB]
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Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: @the lioness
Are you playing dumb? Many ancient/classical writers and historians wrote about the Jews being "ethiopians".
The Scripture Gazetteer: A Geographical, Historical, and Statistical Account... Volume 1" by William Fleming, page 479 (1837) Edinburgh Printing and Publishing Company
posted
Some people continue to deny their real roots.
But others cherish their ancestors and their true culture.
Some more real traditional Igbo culture
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Tazarah
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anthropological/archaeological source stating that ancient semites were negroid:
"The Arabs: The Life Story of a People who Have Left Their Deep Impress on the World" by Bertram Thomas, page 355 (1937) Doubleday, Doran and Company, Incorporated
Seems you only post the same rubbish over and over again. While I show many different pictures from different times. Seems you got stuck. No idea to discuss with you since you are immune to facts
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Tazarah
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anthropological/archaeological source stating that ancient elamites (semites) were negroid and so were the Jews:
"The Negro in the New World" by Sir Harry H. Johnston, page 27 (1910) Smithsonian Institution
quote: One of the more fascinating finds in this tomb, one that has not received much attention, was the preservation of a sample of Jewish male hair. The hair was lice-free, and was trimmed or cut evenly, probably indicating that the family buried in this tomb practiced good hygiene and grooming. The length of the hair was medium to short, averaging 3-4 inches. The color was reddish.
Tazarah
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah:
Seems you only post the same rubbish over and over again. While I show many different pictures from different times. Seems you got stuck. No idea to discuss with you since you are immune to facts
Keep being a pseudo and cherrypicking images while I post scholastic information to confirm everything I've been saying and exposing you as a pseudo. The truth hurts real bad doesn't it?
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Tazarah
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Tazarah
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