posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Archeopteryx:

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
anthropological/archaeological source stating that ancient elamites (semites) were negroid and so were the Jews

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Haha, so you think an anthropological source from 1910 is relevant? As if there has been no development in anthropology since then.

Well, I´m out, no idea to discuss with pseudos.

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Posts: 2542 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
anthropological/archaeological source stating that ancient elamites (semites) were negroid and so were the Jews:



"The Negro in the New World" by Sir Harry H. Johnston, page 27 (1910) Smithsonian Institution

https://library.si.edu/digital-library/book/negroinnewworl00john

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posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:


Here is a link to the document:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a98cbc3b40b9da93f7c5126/t/61f35b8ad59d991291cab3fa/1643338634761/Teshubah-on-Igbo-Israelites.pdf

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^^ This is not a Rabbinical Court document
(aka Beth din)

Rabbinical court documents say "Rabbinical Court" at the top and are signed by a judge or judges at the bottom

It's a Florida organization, with no jurisdiction over Igbos of Nigeria

but if some Igbos want to practice Judaism and say they are Jews I support it.
I don't see why a man born in the Dominican Republic and has an organization in Florida has any authority over Nigerians.

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posted                      

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Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
Some people continue to deny their real roots.

But others cherish their ancestors and their true culture.

Some more real traditional Igbo culture

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Israel reveals eerie collection of Neolithic ‘spirit’ masks
Ahead of Purim, 12 relics of 9,000-year-old ancestor worship from Judean Desert, Hills to go on display at Israel Museum for first tim
https://www.timesofisrael.com/eerie-neolithic-masks-to-make-israel-museum-debut/




the face of God... Iron Age



Revealed: In First Temple era, another massive temple was in use near Jerusalem
Large 10th century BCE worship complex being excavated at Motza in ancient Judah; 4 miles from Temple Mount, site was ‘sanctioned’ by Jerusalem administration, say archaeologists

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-temple-era-judah-another-massive-temple-was-in-use-outside-jerusalem/

The Nok culture is a population whose material remains are named after the Ham village of Nok in Kaduna State of Nigeria, where their terracotta sculptures were first discovered in 1928. Wikipedia
Location: Nigeria nationalgeographic.org
Period: Iron Age
Dates: c. 1500 BC — c. 500 AD





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It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions

Posts: 2707 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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"The lifelike faces, fashioned from clay by a Canadian forensic artist, are based on the skulls of four people whose remains were unearthed in Israel. They include a male, perhaps a hunter, who lived 6,000 years ago and was buried in a Judean Desert cave; a baby interred inside a vase underneath a Jordan Valley house in the same period; a woman thought to be a Philistine who lived on the coast near Ashkelon 3,000 years ago; and a Galilean male who lived around the time of Jesus."

"The skulls were reconstructed for the show by an Israeli forensic anthropologist, Israel Hershkovitz of Tel Aviv University, with the help of technicians using 3D imaging equipment. Victoria Lywood, the forensic artist, then
produced clay renderings of what the four might have looked like when they were alive."

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Reconstructions



Then we have this well known image modelled from remains from men who lived in the time of Jesus.



And as mentioned before, we even have hair preserved from ancient Israelites.

Ancient Jewish skulls

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Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist

Posts: 2689 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:


Judean Pillar Figurines notice the Nubian hairstyle

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Posts: 2689 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:


"The Races of Men: A Fragment" by Robert Knox, page 300 (1850) Lea & Blanchard

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Posts: 2689 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
@Yatunde Lisa

Dude seriously posted the CGI image of "Jesus" face LOL

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Posts: 2689 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
@archeolteryx

Your signature literally says "old is good". Is old only good when it isn't debunking your position?

Are socrates, aristotle, herodotus, etc., "outdated"? Or are you just butthurt and making silly excuses.

All these "old" sources prove that your european scholars already knew the truth hundreds of years ago. Feel free to keep crying about it though. It's funny and entertaining to watch.

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Posts: 2689 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tazarah:
anthropological/archaeological source stating that ancient elamites (semites) were negroid and so were the Jews:



"The Negro in the New World" by Sir Harry H. Johnston, page 27 (1910) Smithsonian Institution

https://library.si.edu/digital-library/book/negroinnewworl00john

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Posts: 2542 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
anthropological/archaeological source stating that ancient semites were negroid:



"The Arabs: The Life Story of a People who Have Left Their Deep Impress on the World" by Bertram Thomas, page 355 (1937) Doubleday, Doran and Company, Incorporated

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.172706

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Posts: 2542 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:


I'm actually laughing at you, very hard.

1. I thought you were done in this thread after you got debunked earlier?

2. What "ancient jewish remains" were examined to create that CGI image? Please tell all of us. Because ancient Israelite remains have never been examined.

This is worse than you posting that reconstructed image from the book of gates. LOL.

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Posts: 2689 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
anthropological/archaeological source stating that ancient semites were negroid:



"The Arabs: The Life Story of a People who Have Left Their Deep Impress on the World" by Bertram Thomas, page 355 (1937) Doubleday, Doran and Company, Incorporated

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.172706

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Posts: 2689 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
@archeotypery

14-15th century BC, Egypt. The genesis of the Israelite nation. Have a nice day, pseudo troll.

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Posts: 2542 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
We have also masks on 8000 years old paintings from Tassili in Algeria, which have similarities with West African masks. One does not have to go to Israel to find art that reminds of todays West African art. It is like going over the stream after water.

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https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-a-strange-drawing-could-undermine-our-entire-idea-of-judaism-1.5973328


"Then, it seems, "the Lord our God” wasn't “one God.” He may have even had a wife, going by the completely unique "portrait" of the Jewish deity that archaeologists found at the site, which may well be the only existing depiction of YHWH."

--------------------
It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions

Posts: 2707 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
About people in ancient Israel. We of course have some human remains from different time that can show us how people would have looked like.

quote:

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"The lifelike faces, fashioned from clay by a Canadian forensic artist, are based on the skulls of four people whose remains were unearthed in Israel. They include a male, perhaps a hunter, who lived 6,000 years ago and was buried in a Judean Desert cave; a baby interred inside a vase underneath a Jordan Valley house in the same period; a woman thought to be a Philistine who lived on the coast near Ashkelon 3,000 years ago; and a Galilean male who lived around the time of Jesus."

"The skulls were reconstructed for the show by an Israeli forensic anthropologist, Israel Hershkovitz of Tel Aviv University, with the help of technicians using 3D imaging equipment. Victoria Lywood, the forensic artist, then
produced clay renderings of what the four might have looked like when they were alive."

---

Reconstructions



Then we have this well known image modelled from remains from men who lived in the time of Jesus.



And as mentioned before, we even have hair preserved from ancient Israelites.

Ancient Jewish skulls

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Posts: 2707 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:

quote:

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Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
We have also masks on 8000 years old paintings from Tassili in Algeria, which have similarities with West African masks. One does not have to go to Israel to find art that reminds of todays West African art. It is like going over the stream after water.

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https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-a-strange-drawing-could-undermine-our-entire-idea-of-judaism-1.5973328


"Then, it seems, "the Lord our God” wasn't “one God.” He may have even had a wife, going by the completely unique "portrait" of the Jewish deity that archaeologists found at the site, which may well be the only existing depiction of YHWH."

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Posts: 2689 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
@archeotypery

14-15th century BC, Egypt. The genesis of the Israelite nation. Have a nice day, pseudo troll.

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^^^^^^^^^ Earlier I shared this modern source put together by non-black scholars/professors/archaeologists and you cried "afrocentrism". LOL. There's always a silly excuse. Your tears are delicious.

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Posts: 2689 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
@archeopteryx

Ooooo, scraps of braided hair definitely prove your point [sarcasm].

I've asked you to link a study detailing the examination of ancient Israelite remains (as you claim has been done) to support your argument. Still waiting...

PS, bones and skeletal remains don't get "outdated" smart guy. If those bones were negroid a hundred years ago, they're still negroid today. LOL what a joke.

Excuses on top of excuses. The truth hurts that bad eh?

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Posts: 2542 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa:
"how to tell me you did not read the article without telling me you did not read the article"


And one only resorts to insults when they have gotten their A&&'s handed to them...


But I got more for you where that came from

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Posts: 2689 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
@Yatunde Lisa

That guy doesn't read anything. He just gets proven wrong, then he cries and complains and makes excuses. Typical eurocentric

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Posts: 2707 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
@the lioness

The truth hurts so bad huh? Always making excuses to deny the undeniable. That man is a sephardic rabbi with all the credentials required, he and his team of rabbis put forth a beth din ruling that stands in all rabbinical courts. They aren't just in florida, their organization has several locations.

You didn't have a problem referencing his work when you thought it would help your silly J haplogroup argument. Don't be a hypocrite.

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https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5a98cbc3b40b9da93f7c5126/t/61f35b8ad59d991291cab3fa/1643338634761/Teshubah-on-Igbo-Israelites.pdf

^^ It's ridiculous to call this a beth din
there is no rabbinical court listed at the top or anywhere in the whole 4 page document

nor even a statement saying that a Rabbinical court or authoritative body of any kind recognizes Igbos !!

Come on Tazarah

When I go back and look yout presentations I discover they are even more flimsy





^^ look at this, Beth Din 101
Badatz of Lakewood NJ
This is how they look. In Hebrew at the top, it's a Foreclosure, that is the subject
Above that "Rabbinical Court"


Look if this other document said

"OBADYAH RABBINICAL COURT

Recognition of Igbos as Jews"


^^ then at least it might look like a legal decree from a court but it doesn't

Show that Obadayah "document" to anybody and they will have no idea somebody is claiming
this to be a legal document or ruling
Read the damn thing, it doesn't make sense claiming this is a legal document.
It's hardly a document. It resembles an article.
What document is in question and Answer form?

Yehonatan Elazar-DeMota went to University for a law degree. Obviously he knows what he's doing, rather not doing
He is not making it NOT look like a beth din
because they have no official "Rabbinical court"

> Because there is no Rabbinical Court.
There is no jurisdiction. It is only an organization

>> Try to find anything, some other ruling by them

And despite 4 pages of text they do not present any evidence that Igbos are Jews be heritage, he just says they are. And he were to make the whole thing look more authoritative there is a big problem in talking about Igbo Y-DNA (which he doesn't detail), the problem is both Sephardic an Ashkenazi Jews determine Jewishness by the matriarchal line and he is coming from a traditional background and transmission it seems and his team, not BHIs

Of course, no mention of this below
If Igbos are Jews, what's all this indigenous African religion? And where are the Hebrew speakers? >>


IGBO RELIGION

Igbo religion distinguishes between three types of supernatural beings: God, the spirits, and the ancestors. Ndigbo believe that there is only one supreme being, who is variously known in different parts of Igboland as Chukwu, Chineke, Ezechitoke, Osebuluwa or Obasi di n'elu. Each name privileges certain attributes. He created the world and sustains it from above, and one of his praise names is "the one who is known but never fully known." Igbo parents honor Chukwu by naming their children in praise of his power: Chuk-wudi ("God lives"), Chukwu nyelu ("God gave"), Chuk-wuneke ("God creates"), Chukwuma ("God knows"), Chukwuka ("God is greater"), Ifeanyichukwu ("nothing impossible with God"), Chukwuemeka ("God has been very kind"), Kenechukwu ("thank God"), Ngozichukwu ("blessing of God"), Chukwumailo ("God knows my enemies"), and Chukwujioke ("God is the sharer").

Chukwu is seen as a powerful, munificent God, the one who holds the knife and the yam and provides people with wealth, rain, and children, and who is merciful toward rich and poor, male and female, child and aged. Every morning the father of the family offers prayers to the supreme being. Chukwu does not intervene in the minor details of human existence, however; such matters he leaves to the spirits and ancestors, who are often described as his messengers.

The spirits (alusi) are powerful beings who inhabit the three dimensions of space—sky, earth (land and water), and ancestral world. There are several categories of spirits. Powerful sky deities manifest through thunder, lightning, sun, and moon; nature spirits inhabit rocks, hills, caves, trees, and land or farms. The guardian spirit of the earth is Ani/Ala, the earth mother. There is also a spirit associated with each day of the Igbo four-day week: Eke, Orie, Afor, and Nkwo. Patron spirits serve as guardians of hunters, farmers, fishermen, medicine men, and other professional guilds; the matron spirit is called Nne Miri or Mami Wata. Marine spirits inhabit rivers and streams. Human spirits, called chi, determine each individual's destiny. Spirit forces energize medicine that individuals can conjure and deploy for strength, protection, or to harm enemies. Ancestral spirits are the living dead who inhabit the spirit world but are involved in the lives of progenies in the human world. During festivals, they visit the human world as guests in form of masquerades. Evil spirits live in both human and spirit worlds. Only those who lived honest lives, did not die from inexplicable diseases, and had full burial rites can be ancestors or reincarnate. The spirits of evil people wander as akalogolu who appear on lonely farm roads to frighten people. Among the most dreaded evil spirits are ogbanje— spirits who manifest as children, covenanted to return to the marine world after a brief sojourn among human families. Their mission is to participate exuberantly in life events, tantalizing parents with their excessive beauty, friendliness, joy of living, and precocious habits. Near the appointed time of return, they develop unusual illnesses and die very suddenly. Ogbanje spirits tend to possess females. Parents consult dibia afa (divining healers, as opposed to dibia ogwu, who are adept with herbs), make sacrifices to marine spirits, and use facial scarifications on the children to discourage their return to the human world. Body marks at birth may betray an ogbanje child (modern medicine suspects sickle cell anemia).

Benevolent spirits have shrines, priests, and religious festivals as part of their worship. The wicked spirits receive no regular cultic activity except the occasional offering made with the left hand as the supplicant asks to be left alone. Major ancestors have statues, which recall their spiritual power, located at a family shrine. Before drinking palm wine, the Igbo pour out a few drops in honor of the ancestors. The ancestors are believed to help the living reap a good harvest, have many children, and protect the family from misfortunes. Ancestors may also be reincarnated among the children of their descendants.

Acts of religious worship permeate daily life and are often conducted on behalf of family or village groups. A father's morning prayer to Chukwu is offered on behalf of his entire family. Individuals invoke the name of a spirit or even that of Chukwu when they sense danger, have cause to rejoice, when they sneeze, or when they approach a spirit's shrine. Prayers also accompany ritual sacrifice. They are offered to God, the spirits, and the ancestors, and can be prayers of petition, praise, or thanksgiving. The Igbo perceive time as cyclical, from birth to death and reincarnation. Rites of passage are celebrated: naming ceremonies, puberty rites, marriage rites, membership in secret and open societies, adult roles in communal governance, and funerary rites. Both the poor, ogbenye, and the rich, ogalanya, are judged after this life by their honest commitment to communal values.

Sacrifice is central in Igbo religious life. Sacrifices are offered for the expiation of sins, for protection from misfortune, to petition for assistance, and to offer thanks. Most are offered to spirits and ancestors, but in certain cases sacrifices of white chickens are offered directly to Chukwu. Sacrifices at family shrines are performed by the senior man of the family. Each spirit has its own priests who perform sacrifices at the shrine. Offerings include eggs, chickens, fruits, goats, cows, and (in a few rare cases of community sacrifices) human beings. Sometimes the victim—animal or human—is offered to a spirit and a little of its blood is shed as a sign of an offering, but the victim is allowed to live as a devotee who is consecrated to the spirit. Human sacrifices are sometimes connected with adjudication of disputes at oracular shrines. Oracles are graded according to purview. The three with the widest geographical patronage that extended beyond Igboland were Ogbunorie, Igwe-ka-Ala, and Ibin Ukpabi. The last acquired notoriety because the Arochukwu, who served as middlemen in the transatlantic slave trade manipulated the oracle by soaking the stream near the ravine that housed the oracle with red ochre wood and declaring that Ibin Ukpabi had eaten the guilty party in the arbitration. Meanwhile, they sneaked the hapless victim through the forest to a waiting slave boat. The colonial government conducted a raid on the Arochukwu community between 1901 and 1902, but could not wipe out the oracle. They followed this with four other four raids between 1912 and 1925 against the oracle, still to no avail.

Healing is central to Igbo religion. Ndi dibia ogwu (herbalists) employ a variety of techniques to discern the spiritual cause of a particular malady or misfortune: a violation of taboos/prohibitions, moral failure, an offense against a spirit, or a bad personal fate (chi). A spirit, agwu, possesses the herbalist after he recites incantations, and it identifies the herb and the location in the forest for the cure.

Social control models include socialization into acceptable values (omenali), restriction through satires and peer joking relationships, punishment for those who flout the salient values, and reward for those who uphold them. Each control is legitimized with religion. For instance, theft from a farm threatens the food security of the community, so the elders invoke the spirits of Ahiajioku (the god of the yam who also guards farms), Ani/Ala (the earth mother), or ancestors to detect and punish the thief. The earth spirit and ancestors serve as guardians of morality. The most serious crimes are abominations committed against the earth spirit, such as patricide, suicide, incest, theft of crops or livestock, giving birth to twins, and killing sacred animals. Itinerant priests from Nri conduct the expiation of such abominations. Ndigbo employ covenants with the gods of their fathers to preserve social order, enhance the well-being of individuals and communities, and preserve the highest values, nka na nzere —long life and prosperity. They sacralize the whole of life.

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posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
@Yatunde Lisa

All they do is lie and make excuses, especially lioness. You can give him/her evidence that grass is green and they will try to convince you that is not the case.

He/she is still trying to argue about the rabbinical ruling and attacking it's validity when I've already linked (in the OP) the organization's website, the document, as well as a video of the president rabbi of that orgnization himself explaining the ruling.

I bet he/she won't reach out to him and complain about the ruling because he/she is a troll and knows the rabbi will laugh and dismiss them.

Here is a short video of the president of the organization (a black Sephardic Jew), Dr. Hakham Yehonatan Elazar-DeMota ס״ט, who is a rabbi, talking about the ruling:

"Sephardic Beit Din rules that the Igbo of Nigeria are Israelites (Obadyah Alliance)":

https://youtu.be/XYz3XrbB2tQ

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Posts: 2542 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
[QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tazarah:
[qb] [b] @Yatunde Lisa

All they do is lie and make excuses, especially lioness. You can give him/her evidence that grass is green and they will try to convince you that is not the case.

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Posts: 42939 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:

quote:

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Originally posted by Tazarah:
@Yatunde Lisa

All they do is lie and make excuses, especially lioness. You can give him/her evidence that grass is green and they will try to convince you that is not the case.

He/she is still trying to argue about the rabbinical ruling and attacking it's validity when I've already linked (in the OP) the organization's website, the document, as well as a video of the president rabbi of that orgnization himself explaining the ruling.

I bet he/she won't reach out to him and complain about the ruling because he/she is a troll and knows the rabbi will laugh and dismiss them.

Here is a short video of the president of the organization (a black Sephardic Jew), Dr. Hakham Yehonatan Elazar-DeMota ס״ט, who is a rabbi, talking about the ruling:

"Sephardic Beit Din rules that the Igbo of Nigeria are Israelites (Obadyah Alliance)":

https://youtu.be/XYz3XrbB2tQ

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