quote:Originally posted by 7aya: what might seem extreme to you could be another person's way of showing devotion to god.
But there is no god, as far as we know?
And it's not extreme it's just inexplicable because she nor anyone else wishes to explain. (I assume the real motifs differ from person to person just as person differs from person.) Love!!!
quote:Originally posted by 7aya: HEADLINE: MY BODY IS MY OWN BUSINESS By Naheed Mustafa
Yes, and my body is my business. So when can we start mutually accepting it, please?
The article is not very well grounded - if the society is trying to wrong trends upon you then the answer is not to flee into your hijab but to ignore these trends. And if one so strongly longs to wear the hijab, then saying "I want to wear it" should suffice. Hijab is really not a threat if it simply represents itself as a bit of clothing. Just that as an intelligent person and world member you might also think what else a hijab represents - what kind of values so often or at least historically go with wearing a hijab, and then think if you really want to be a walking advertising to these values? Am just asking you think a bit beyond yourself.
Otherwise as they say: let the kid do what keeps him happy if it keeps him from crying.
Really, I cannot forgive Karah that she chose to support such a women-belittling system of beliefs.
From another 'belittled' woman..... what makes you think she wants your 'forgiveness??' Why can people not get it into their stupid narrow minded heads that this intelligent free-thinking woman converted for the reason that she found a religion that is right for her... And. also,I am very happy for her.. she has a good man, who loves her very much, and has now found Islam.. She is not a pathetic ugly old woman who needs to take desperate measures to catch a man!! GET OVER IT!!!
This is not a satisfying answer, Samia. I'm seriously and very goodnaturedly by the way and without intentionally insulting anyone's person by the way searching for a reason here! Waving hands and thowing stones does not really help me understand the mystery.
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Yes, and my body is my business. So when can we start mutually accepting it, please?
The article is not very well grounded - if the society is trying to wrong trends upon you then the answer is not to flee into your hijab but to ignore these trends. And if one so strongly longs to wear the hijab, then saying "I want to wear it" should suffice. Hijab is really not a threat if it simply represents itself as a bit of clothing. Just that as an intelligent person and world member you might also think what else a hijab represents - what kind of values so often or at least historically go with wearing a hijab, and then think if you really want to be a walking advertising to these values? Am just asking you think a bit beyond yourself.
Otherwise as they say: let the kid do what keeps him happy if it keeps him from crying.
what values? well the belief that a woman should not be judged by her beauty but by her soul. at least that's the belief most my veiled friends and collegues have. you say higab would not be a threat if it was just a piece of clothing. but i really wonder why is it a threat to you? and the question i want you to ask yoursefl. does the higab really symbolise the values you were led to believe? or is this your assumption?
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Ok Nevermind you asked about the values of hijab, and no for me its not just a piece of clothing far away from that. hijab- the strength that i need - it reveals if ppl really care about you as a humanbeing or only how you look. and believe me i saw that after i decided to wear hijab, where I lost all my norwegian friends. - it gives you the courage to stand up and say I am A MUSLIM, without any fear of judgement or caring what ppl say. - it gives you self respect, that I am not a product that you can sell and look upon, no I am more valuable then that, and I wont a model for todays "cool" outfits that lowers the opinion of a women and the respect she really diserves. - It makes me stand tall and with my head up high without any doubts or questions of who I am, I am Sara and I am a muslim and I am PROUD OF THAT!
My hijab I will never take off not even if it would mean the death for me. No its not a simple clothing, it is a part of me. a part of my soul and a part of my heart.
If you dont like Islam, well ok fine with me, be free to not like it, no one here said, "Nevermind you have to belive in islam" you are actually the one who is forcing us to see things through your way. But I belive that we were born diff with diff opinions and goals in this life, and if we stop trying to see every fault in each other we could in fact live in harmony.
what you talked about is not islam, its culture, these are two diff things. one time yes culture was religion but its the same with a gossip news, once it were the truth but in time it changed to be something far away from it.
[This message has been edited by Serendipity (edited 26 June 2005).]
posted
and by the way, I never cared what the media or the society combines with the hijab, if i did wouldnt go against your own belief, to not be caged? and to be free to think for yourself? I chose to wear hijab, and will continue wearing hijab.
Posts: 2519 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: I never cared what the media or the society combines with the hijab,/.../I chose to wear hijab, and will continue wearing hijab.
And I never grow up. I choose to stay childish and I will continue expressing my childish, inconsiderate will which is all about ME!
There is big difference if you care about yourself (and your perception) in the first order, or you care about others (and their perception) in the first order. Crossing it means maturity and becoming a responsible person in the world. The world is full of people who never matured into parental way of caring humans, who just go on wanting their own will, come what may. While we should all strive to want things that make everybody a little bit more happy.
If islam filled you with real peace, happyness and pride, you would not need to look for it from a simple piece of clothing. So what makes you defensive? No need to answer, just think sometimes if have time. Defensive people do all kinds of crazy things but in the end you still have to simply face the problem. The only way of overcoming a deficiency in your knowledge is to face it, admit it, and learn what helps you overcome. There is nothing shameful in not knowing - none of us knows everything and we are all deficient to a certain extent - but shameful is try hide it and try play a perfect being. So sort out your relationship with your religions and other values, and learn the things that make you ashamed, and learn the thinbgs that you can be proud of, so that you can stand proud as you are, garmented or not, and also tell to ignorant people like me.
As I've said so many times - PLEASE wear the clothes you love to wear if you like to, and simply because you like to, no excuses needed in a modern world. A hijab is beautiful and does not disturb me at all. But you could somehow then let it be known that your aim is purely esthetic and/or to express your personality, and you do not aim promote the historic beliefs from the times when it was indeed safest to hide your female members of the family if they were beautiful or otherwise, because in times of anyone's right anyone could decide he wants them. These times are over now! (or almost, i think)
Would make it so much easier for everyone because so much trouble comes from having no information, or from misunderstanding.
Anyway, I am not happy at all that you arab women are so subduing, and that you tolerate men look down at you and make all these differences, and also the stupid thinking as if women are something impure... you know to list more than me, I am sure,
because the world really needs the female wisdom. Things always go up in a country when it is led by a woman because who gives life knows how to nurture it also.
posted
Believe me when you hear the same old talk, every single day in 14 years. you get tired and offensive about it. and quite frankly i hate discussions like that, after you reach the nr 100 you get a bit dizzy from it I belive both of us belive strongly in our way of belief, and there are two ways to end this conversation, either getting angry and stamping on the floor tearing out our hair, or we could agree to disagree and still respect each other
well well, if I wanted another discussion like that, I could just sit on the bus
posted
I strongly believe in that in case of creating discomfort in the fellow disputer, the dispute should be cut or, to put it in other words - the ends do not celebrate means if the means make a fellow being suffer, because the ends (=result) is hypothetical and even never be gained, while pain created is real and actual and real should always come before hypothetical, in order of importance, and one should avoid causing pain with all means, because isn't there enough in the world already.
posted
of course! the fun of having friends, is to learn from eachother and respect each others opinions. Posts: 2519 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
OK, but so what is there for others to learn from arabs, or muslims, for that matter?
because no one here seems to be able to explain what the value-added of their culture or religion is, compared to other cultures or beliefs?
Learning to know that it makes people defensive when you touch the deficiencies in them that they hate to admit to them, that some people I don't know why hate to admit they are wrong.... is not exactly new knowledge without learning also a solution to it (I've maybe even read how to handle that but I always forget, but it is of the kind that professional psychologists usually handle so maybe any of our US members can submit ideas or experience?? because they are pretty strong in popular practical psychology there I believe, you would not believe when you look at their official politics but on the grassroots level all easy-to-digest books on attitude problems etc seem to come from there).
Because not speaking of these unpleasant to the affected persons themselves things, though a kind act, is not really a solution either, it is just a short-term act of mercy but not in the interests of the other person actually, because if you have e.g. a rotting bone in you, then would you also say to the doctor--no, it is too painful when you touch it or wish me remove it, better leave it in me and let the whole of me rot by and by.. Would you rather prefer living without people telling it to you? ????? or maybe.
But it is not possible to gain new and better knowledge without at first admitting one's deficiency. I usually soothe me by saying to myself that although it is highly embarrasssing that I have appeared a total fool in a certain topic or an idiot in my approach, am I not so happy in being so much wiser now, in contrast to these who never admit and thus never learn. Lately it has become even amuse me seriously when I, too, sometimes, appear an idiot or fool because I feel so nicely human then. But I only have this privilege of feeling joy over stupidity because the whole 38 years before it I've never been afraid of looking stupid or being wrong. We are born into this world ingorant, so what is there to be ashamed of?
I really love me so much for being so sensible :) but we are rare, of course, right?
Ah, sorry if i spolied iat all again, it's just the scientific me, with strong inclination to most intolerable missionarism, always wins over the collective hand-holding back-scratching me :(
[This message has been edited by nevermind (edited 27 June 2005).]
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