posted
Kind of surprised everyone forgot the most obvious reason of all: Tan lines
Posts: 94 | From: Boise, Idaho, USA | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Saladin, I'm really shocked to find out that there is different treatment of Egyptians verses non-Egyptians.
quote:Originally posted by Saladin: I think of the issue of topless sun bathers in a different way. It is a symptom of a problem that has existed in Egypt for a very long time: Preferential treatment of foreigners and the lack of respect that [b] Egyptians display for Egyptian law.
Its not an issue if the Tourist respects the culture or not. The tourist probably heard from a friend that Hurgada/Sharm was great and that topless sun bathing was allowed. They fly directly into the Hurgada airport from abroad and have little time to learn about the previaling attitudes in Egyptian society.
In Egypt I cannot enter a Casino, but any foreigner can. Why is that? Why does he/she have more rights than me? Why is it that unwed tourists can book a hotel room yet I have to present a marriage certificate? This is the basic problem. Its not an issue of whether or not I am for topless sun bathers, gambling, or fournication. The issue is that they have more rights than us inside our own country.
Moreover, we have our own laws and constitution that we do not enforce or enforce selectively. Our laws afford us protection from wrongful imprisonment, wrongful searches, torture, free speech, right to protest, etc... Can anyone say that this is a reality?
We need laws that apply to anyone (Egyptian and Tourist alike) and we need to enforce those laws on everyone. Only then can we discuss the morality and regulation of public nudity.[/B]
posted
Only attractive females should be allowed to go topless if they want to. The rest must cove up please.
Posts: 59 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
i remember being young and not understanding why it was ok to run around in your underwear sometimes, but not other times. i just figured that it had something to do with color....you weren't allowed to run around in the solid colored pink or white ones (underwear) but it was ok if they were the ones with bright patterns (bathing suits).
then i saw a girl in a white bathing suit and that blew my theory out the door.
posted
What an interesting topic! I have experienced many topless bathers in Hurghada, it doesn't really bother me, everyone will be accountable for their own actions and I cannot judge. BUT, in saying that, it bothers me when they shake their heads and look at us in total shock horror for choosing to cover ourselves and enjoy the 'beach' sat under a parasol. Such mockery is just insulting. I just find it humiliating, it is already hard for us in the West, but to go back home and face it too....nah! What can we expect though? It's just such a shame. Peace! Posts: 606 | From: London, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
LOL I havent personally experienced the sunbathers but rather beaches with them on it. Posts: 606 | From: London, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm a female white Christian, live in sunny Scotland, seen all kinds of things in my day to day life.
I did modelling but stopped a few years ago, one feature in newspaper in particular that I remember (and will never forget) I modelled bikinis. I'd never ever worn a bikini in my life.
Yet I am offended by women bathing topless. One time in particular, at large pool at rear of Isis Hotel, I could see at other side of the pool bridge 2 women topless. I was shocked. Some Egyptian hotel workers did an about turn and walked back and spied on them. They're probably still standing there glued ot the spot.
I wouldn't dare wear a bikini/swim costume when on holiday in Egypt. It just wouldn't feel right. I'd feel as though I'd be disappointing my Egyptian friends.
I don't approve of tourists topless or bottomless sunbathing in countries such as Egypt.
posted
You people can go on and on about the topless subject until your foam at the keyboards but the tourists will keep being topless.
All Egypt ads I have seen show women in deep-cut bikinis sunning themselves.
From what I understand a lot of the hotel staff are students looking to make some money over the holidays. They are not used to see naked people and it shows. At least that's one of them told me, he said he was sick and disgusted of seeing naked women like that, that it was beyond obscene, that it was revolting for him and many others.
For me, it was a very uneasy feeling even to lay on the beach in a one-piece suit and covered with the matching sarong! there were a few Egyptian couples nearby, the woman completely dressed and veiled, and it just seemed cheap and insulting to them to show our bodies. The other girls took their tops off and wore string bikinis so they were practically naked, but I think for someone who soaks up the atmosphere of the place, there's no way you can go topless. I was ashamed to display my arms up to the elbows! No way am I going to the beach again in Egypt, it will be Cairo for me or sailing down the Nile. It made me feel really uneasy. The only days I really enjoyed wearing a swimsuit was when we went away diving on a boat by ourselves.
However, as long as there will be no rules to that effect, all people can do is foam at the mouth - or keyboard - without changing anything.
posted
Monica and everyone--If I'm not mistaken you don't even reside in Egypt anymore, isn't that correct? Therefore, how could you be so indignant to other writers/posters that actually do. You act as if you have to pass a topless sunbather everyday on the way to work, which I am sure isn't the case. And once more--I think, truely think that we have the government to thank for another fine mess. But then as the coin turns I would hope that a truely good muslim man would look the other way, and not be drawn to this type of attention. Let's face it people, Egypt gets the vast majority of their income from tourists, especially from the Red Sea where things seem to be so liberal. I think Monica summed it up best when she said that their should be designated places for this type of behavior, cages? I think not, but a more suitable and appropriate place. I myself would hate to have my kids running and playing on the beach and run across the likes of this. But then the people that are local no which places are off limits and know what to expect. And something else, El Kadafi said it so well, Egypt treats everyone like ****. You have to be someone in this 3rd world country to get anywhere--that's the life here, it's no secret. Suta, you said it best also....this is hardly on the top of the "critical issue" scale. Here's an idea...let's take care of the polluted water, the corrupted government, the traffic pollution, the unemployment rate, the starving and uneducated children on the street, and then if there is anyone left over to do the job we will work on the topless sunbathers!!!
Posts: 2 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
My Wife & I have booked a holiday to Egypt(soon). On looking for info on the various aspects that will enhance our holiday,I came upon various arguments regarding 'Dress', of course we would never appear in anything but appropriate attire while visiting 'Historic' sites etc. But I feel the arguments are nothing short of insignificant in the case of 'beach wear' or lack of it! Egypt may find it strange that some people wish to remove clothing to some degree while on the beach, but I would think it strange to see 'local' men enjoying themselves on the beach whilst their wives remain totally covered up and kept away from any enjoyment, no one is asking them to parade around in swim wear,they do what is natural and acceptable to them,so, why shouldn't tourists. Supression of women is not very condusive to the western ideals of an attempt at some equality. Ask some simple questions. Do traders refuse to take money from tourists? Do all the Egyptian men avert their gaze? Should the West expect Egyptians to give up their customs when in our country ? I am neither racist or religious, but I respect the customs of others visiting my country, in fact, I think you would find that most western countries go out of their way to facilitate maintaining peoples identity and background, I know that by LAW, I must, as a citizen give every consideration to the beliefs and customs of others,if not I may be penalised for any infringement of those laws. All I am saying, to sum up, is most of us here don't have a problem with bikinis etc.on the beach, WE DO have the freedom to dress this way,and, on certain beaches wear nothing if we so choose.The Red Sea resorts are 'purpose' built for tourists,and I'm quite sure everyone concerned in the development of these resorts were well aware of the 'CUSTOMS' of other people. While we certainly don't wish to upset your people,it should be our choice to dress as we feel suitable on suitable beaches! If we don't agree on some issue or situation then we avoid it, I'm sure there are enough beaches in Egypt, to let everybody do their own thing.We have 'nudist' beaches here in the U.K. and if some one doesn't like th idea of this, they simply choose to avoid that particular area. I have also read some of the ancient history of Egypt,there are many references to 'nudity' i.e. Women baring themselves before a bull, to improve fertility? Nefertiti hereself was partially nude. Then there would be the question of 'Slavery,Eunochs and numerous wives of the ruling classes.Hardly an Ideal example to set.
Posts: 1 | From: U.K. | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Cold one: If we don't agree on some issue or situation then we avoid it, I'm sure there are enough beaches in Egypt, to let everybody do their own thing.
This made me chuckle and think.... If there are enough beaches in Egypt for everyone to do their own thing, and there are investors that feel there should be more modest beaches available for the modest Muslims of Egypt, and elsewhere, to enjoy, why the heck aren't there any decent hotels and beaches JUST for this purpose and just for this crowd? Not enough money to be made from this group of people perhaps? I mean good Lord people if you did it right you could even get all the Saudi and Kuwait money in there.....or could you?
posted
With regards to the question of westeners expecting Egyptians to observe their customs abroad, this is true to a large degree. Look to the new French Law (you know which one I am referring to.
In Egypt, using force to discipline children (and I don't mean anything too serious) is normal and part of the customs. Abroad you will go to jail and social services will collect your child.
The law in Egypt prohibits public nudity. The problem is that in the red sea they don't enforce (except maybe if an Egyptian girl went topless) so most foreigners dont know its illegal.
Posts: 94 | From: Boise, Idaho, USA | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have travelled worldwide and find that it is very important to consider the people's culture to avoid upset. For example, when I travel in Egypt to someone's house, I would cover up because it is unfair on them if you wear shorts etc.
I believe it is a matter of conscience and also feelings of others.
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic