Before you convert you have to study Islam very well. Take your time and study it. Look at different opinions and different currents within the religion and see how they fit your sensibilities. If you find at the end that you are not convinced, then no harm done, remain as you are. Don't give this less than a year of intensive thought before you take the step.

The other alternative is you rush in and then you moan on the Internet that you are disappointed and your faith is shaken because you were exposed to ahadith mashkooka and isareliyat (bet you don't know what either is). Sorry your faith is shaken but that's your problem.

Sorry if my shock at some of the hadiths offended you. Who with, or where else, will I discuss it? My local sheikh does not speak English and my English friends do not have a clue about Islam even though some say that they are Moslems and some even wear hijabs on Friday when they go to meat their lover's families..

I was not moaning to you or to anyone. I was just responding to a line that interested me in a negative sort of way. Also it was something that I did not know - and now I do, so I can thank Monoo for that. If it was my shaken faith, rather than someone else's, that prompted you start this lilne then I am surprised.

PS: You are right - it is my problem. I never once said it was yours. And you are also right that I do not know what an "isareliyat" is either.

[This message has been edited by Luxorlover (edited 22 July 2004).]

Most of the conversations I have had about religion were with my teacher (who was actually an English teacher at the local school but had excellent English) and my ex-partner. His knowledge of Islam was whatever he wanted it to be. (Keep me locked in - literally several times - and let him do as he pleased because he was a man - that might be why I have a hang up over it.)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Luxorlover:

Most of the conversations I have had about religion were with my teacher (who was actually an English teacher at the local school but had excellent English) and my ex-partner. His knowledge of Islam was whatever he wanted it to be. (Keep me locked in - literally several times - and let him do as he pleased because he was a man - that might be why I have a hang up over it.)

I am sorry if I over-reacted. It was just that the cap fitted and I wore it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
BTW, a sheikh is not necessarily THE person to discuss religion with, he may be wrong, actually they are very often wrong and ignorant.

---

So who do you think she should ask...should she take a flight to Mecca every time she needs to ask a question???...Why would God give a very complicated message that even the Shikhs of Islam can not make sense of anyway, let alone ordinary people??? ...Kimo, you sound like a smart educated Egyptian, why don't you use your mere logic. I never answer your attacks on me becuase it's simply not my style, I have better things to keep myself busy with. Most of your answers in every topic I have posted so far is far from impressing, I understand that it's not easy to question a belief you were born with, but don't you think it's much more important to see where is this road going to take you after life...Don't take things for granted. I'm not against who do you think of me...I accept your disgust of me for the sake of you to go back and search the things I posted.

Now, don't expect me to go tick tack with arguments unless it's healthy...If I don't answer...then it's not.

I agree with Kimo and the others that we all do have to try to look for the best information we can find about Islam and try to educate ourselves. If you check back over some previous threads you will see links for a number of good Islamic websites that we have recommended recently, the largest number I think were on a thread started by Jutta. That would be a good starting point if you want to get valid information about a variety of subjects.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mokoo:

Now, don't expect me to go tick tack with arguments unless it's healthy...If I don't answer...then it's not.
[This message has been edited by Mokoo (edited 23 July 2004).]

---

Mokoo, I didn't post this for you, so no I was not holding my breath for your response. And I hoestly don't care what you think of my arguments, because I am not making any, I am just writing what I think simply and IN MY OWN WORDS.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mokoo:

So who do you think she should ask...should she take a flight to Mecca every time she needs to ask a question???...
[This message has been edited by Mokoo (edited 23 July 2004).]

---

Why should she? What's so special about Mecca? Mecca is a place you go to for a pilgrimage and you come back, there is no oracle to give you holy advice and there is no pope with infallible words. The imam of the holy mosque is just a normal man, you can disagree with him just as you can disagree with the local imam.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mokoo:

Why would God give a very complicated message that even the Shikhs of Islam can make sense of anyway, let alone ordinary people???
[This message has been edited by Mokoo (edited 23 July 2004).]

---

Well the point is God didn't give a complicated message. The dogma of Islam is very simple: There is a God, believe in him, trust him, and do deeds in your life that by common sense are good deeds. The problem is with specifics, and Islam is not complicated there, it's just flexible. It leaves a lot of details out and doesn't assign religious authorities to take the responsibility for fixing these specifics. It leaves it to common sense and individualism. The fact that it assigns no intermediary role between people and God is not a minus the last time I checked.

And I am not telling people not to ask the local imam or read on the Internet to find out about something. All I am saying is that the OPINION of these people is not compulsory, you can disagree with them and make your own research if you like. If, however, you are too simple to carry out research or look for a spectrum of opinions, then it's okay to go with what the imam says. But if you are a simple person you wouldn't feel your faith shaken for doing that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mokoo:

I understand that it's not easy to question a belief you were born with, but don't you think it's much more important to see where is this road going to take you after life...Don't take things for granted.
[This message has been edited by Mokoo (edited 23 July 2004).]

---

Two very interesting points here. One, why do you assume I was just "born" into it. For a long time I was agnostic, and my family was more than okay with it. Then I read a lot about Judaism and Islam and I became Muslim. Don't make assumptions about me, I am more complex than you think.

The other point is, where do you think I am going in the after life? Uptill this point you have painted yourself as an atheist. Now, if you were an atheist, you wouldn't really use the afterlife as a way of terrorising me out of Islam, would you
Frankly Mokoo, your texts, your writing, and your style are quite reminiscent of Messianic Christianity. So come one, spill the beans pal

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mokoo:

Most of your answers in every topic I have posted so far is far from impressing
(edited 23 July 2004).]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Frankly Mokoo, your texts, your writing, and your style are quite reminiscent of Messianic Christianity.

---

Isn't that redundant??

quote:

---

Originally posted by dajjal supreme:
Hey Kimo when you say you were once agnostic, was this throughout your early childhood years? Or were you raised with an Islamic upbringing and then became agnostic before finally reverting to Islam? My last question is does your family roots trace itself to Islam?
I am aware that most Islamic countries usually incorporate Islamic studies as part of the school's curriculum and that is why I am a bit curious as to how your opinions were formulated when what you were taught in school conflicted with beliefs of your family ( I have presumed that Islamic studies were included in your schooling year, and that your family background is Islamic even though they are non-practicing muslims, please correct me were I am wrong).

---

Well, the part about my family is too personal, but I can say this: "Religion class" in Egypt is a total non-event. I went to a Saudi school for a year, and whohaa that was hard. I did study stuff I didn't believe in, and my family wasn't happy about it either, and there were soooo many periods for "religious sciences", I think it was that year that I decided I wasn't sure about Islam.

Now in Egypt it's like one hour every week (we took one hour of English EVERY DAY) where a female teacher reads from a slim book for five minutes, gets bored, and then starts telling silly stories about her husband. It was a recreational class between English and science in my school if I recall correctly. Plus religion class is a pass/fail subject, it doesn't count in total, you have to score something like 40% and you can do that just by answering stupid questions like:
-People should be encouraged to smoke (right or wrong and give reasons).
I know people would deny that, but religion class is never taken seriously in Egypt, if you fail art and design your total score plummets, if you fail religion you retake the exam. In this environment you feel free to explore.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carleen:
Isn't that redundant??

---

*Gasp*, it seems like it is. Oh my God what am I gonna do? Oh the shame, the humanity.

Now this may be a different route to Islam than many of you on this panel had (especially those who do not, and never have, lived in Egypt - which I feel is the majority). There is no University library to go and borrow a book from, there is no library at all and even if there were, naturally the books would be in Arabic.

There are also aspects of Islam that a woman needs to discuss with another woman. On this panel people get upset when sex is mentioned, yet I had to acquire information regarding ritual cleansing from a man because there was no woman in the village that spoke English well enough to tell me. In the household I lived in for four years, there was no woman that spoke English at all.

Kimo is right about the religious classes. Few around me really know about Mohammed and Islam. Many village people cannot read, let alone read the Koran. They pray five times each day and go to the mosque on Fridays. That is enough for them. Their faith is unshakable because it is a rock that gives them hope of something better in an after life - something to make what they are going through now all worth while.

Newcomer: Any books I ordered would have to be bought while I was in England. I don't even get my letters through the post let alone parcels - unless they are registered and have to be signed for - that makes people nervous about 'acquiring' them.

If I was lazy, I would not be asking any questions at all - I would have blind acceptance. As an academic I know that books, no matter how scholarly or well written, only give you the view of the writer. Even if they try to be impartial, it is impossible to achieve.

Before embracing Islam I read many books on Islam, read two complete translations of the Koran, and read all of the texts that were given to me at the Al Azhar mosque. I also watched a whole series of videos (including those of Deedat). I am neither stupid nor lazy. There are just some things about Islam that are conveniently not passed on. That is where this forum has been interesting for me.

I could plough endlesslsy through internet sites. I am sure they would tell me what they want me to hear. How do I differentiate between those that are informed and those that are not. How did I know which are 'correct'. I certainly would not be interested in ones that rabbit on about hijab wearing. At least here when something is said that jars with the ideas of others then someone shouts.

It was in the Al Azhar mosque that I was told that I had to accept all of Islam or none of it. That I had no choice. That I could not choose to abide by some bits and reject others. I chose to reject the hijab and I chose to reject the concept of the superiority of men. Does that mean I am damned?

As a mother with a daughter, my faith was shaken by the thought of Mohammed with a 9 year old wife. That is understandable. Whatever the mores of the time, it is totally unconscionable and will take me some time to come to terms with it as it was not something that had been pointed out to me before. I will come to terms with it, because I want to.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
*Gasp*, it seems like it is. Oh my God what am I gonna do? Oh the shame, the humanity.

Sorry Carleen, I am in a dopey mood

---

Honestly, I wasn't just bustin' your chops (although that's always fun). I was wondering if this was some new sect of Christianity I didn't know about.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carleen:
Honestly, I wasn't just bustin' your chops (although that's always fun). I was wondering if this was some new sect of Christianity I didn't know about.

[This message has been edited by Carleen (edited 23 July 2004).]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Newcomer: Any books I ordered would have to be bought while I was in England. I don't even get my letters through the post let alone parcels - unless they are registered and have to be signed for - that makes people nervous about 'acquiring' them.

---

That is TOO funny!

quote:

---

As a mother with a daughter, my faith was shaken by the thought of Mohammed with a 9 year old wife. That is understandable. Whatever the mores of the time, it is totally unconscionable and will take me some time to come to terms with it as it was not something that had been pointed out to me before. I will come to terms with it, because I want to.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Okay Carleen, I meant Messianic Jews, or Hebrew Christians, or whatever you want to call them. Don't tell me you don't know about Messianic Judaism! Well, if you don't then you are better off, sicko stuff inside.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carleen:
It's really interesting to me that you didn't know that. I'm a Christian & I did. Is it possible that Muslims consider this sort of "dirty laundry" and don't talk about it much, while Christians point to it at every opportunity??

---

I didn't know it, and I am not shocked, and if it's true then I am A-OK with spreading it. The only point is, I don't think it makes a lot of difference for most people here!

But what's also interesting is that many Jews and Christians don't know about sexual deviancy in the bible (at least in Egypt they seem to skim over it), so what's the deal with that?

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Carleen, just a question. You seem to allude that most Christians in the US know about this. If so (I am not sure that's what you meant), then how do they know it? Is it something they teach you at school, is it something they teach you at church? I didn't know western Christians were so systematic in painting Islam in a negative light. Come to think of it, that's flattering, I didn't know we were such a huge concern

---

Well sorry to disappoint you, but that's not the case. Honestly, I'd never heard of Islam until I was in my twenties, and that was only because of NOI. When the Taliban took over Afghanistan, I became interested in the subject of women in the Islamic world, and read about Mohammed and his wives then. Since 9/11, of course everyone is curious now, so a lot of Christian websites do address the basic beliefs of Islam, and not surprisingly, the aspects they believe are false.

And it's not as though I've done any intensive research into Islam. It seems that Aischa's age is mentioned in almost every text I read about Mohammed, albeit they are from a Christian, or maybe I should say, non-Muslim viewpoint.

But to answer your question, I think it would be fair to say that most western Christians are aware of Aischa's age. Where this is taught now, I'm not sure, because my church doesn't discuss Islam. But I was raised in a **very** fundamentalist, evangelical Christian school, and I can just imagine some of the teachers railing on Islam now.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
But what's also interesting is that many Jews and Christians don't know about sexual deviancy in the bible (at least in Egypt they seem to skim over it), so what's the deal with that?

---

Thanks for your response and explaining more about your situation. The reason I recommended those books was precisely because you had mentioned that you were an academic and had a huge library of books about Ancient Egypt and you were therefore used to reading books with a critical eye, not accepting everything that was written. That was also why I recommended more than one book on some of the subjects so you could compare different points of view. I can imagine that its not easy to buy Islamic books in English in Luxor, but Amazon.com do a good delivery service and I know express mail parcels of books get through ok as I used to send them to Egypt regularly. So you could order them safely from one of the many online Islamic bookshops if you couldn’t find them in Amazon. Or wait until you go back to the UK.

As you said the people around you before you accepted Islam did not give you the full picture of Islam and neither can the people on this forum, as this is not an appropriate place to give in depth Islamic instruction or have in depth discussions, which many issues need. I didn’t suggest that you ploughed endlessly through websites, but just went to the few sites that different Muslims here had recommended, as that would give you a range of different sites to look at. There you would be able to pick and chose the subjects that you wanted to read more about, and there you would be able to start sifting out the different opinions.

As you know, in studying any subject, we need to refer to those who are specialists in that subject, who can give the fundamental information that we need, and in Islam that is information about the Qur’an, the creed, and the life story of the Prophet that demonstrated how Islam was put into practice by its Prophet. It is especially important to do this about Islam as it is a belief that affects every aspect of our life. We need to know what the implications of the shahadah are: what does it mean to worship only Allah, Who is He, and what does He say to us. We also need to know what the implications are of saying that Muhammad was His Prophet. We need to know how to practice the Pillars of Islam and understand about praying, fasting, paying zakah, and doing hajj; and what the Pillars of Faith are and what it means to believe in Allah, His Prophets, His Books, His Angels, the Hereafter, and Predestination. Obviously all this cannot be shared on this forum, nor can it all be discussed in detail here, which is why I had hoped that some of the sources I suggested might be useful for you.

May Allah help you to find the best way to gain the soundest knowledge.

I shall have a look at some of the websites. Thanks for giving me a clearer understanding of what they are about. I have deliberately steared clear of them for fear of dogma - now I have a more open mind.

I found these three answers to your question on one of the websites that is run by a knowledgeable scholar. One of them is a very full answer, but worth reading as it gives some very good advice, based on authentic sources. http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=5410&dgn=4 http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=11588&dgn=4 http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=378&dgn=4
This one gives a personal view of some of the reasons for the prayer being in Arabic: http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=83445
Hope they are useful.

when I became a Muslim, I did not speak any Arabic except a few words. I was praying only saying: subhan Allah, alhamdulillah, wa Allahu akbar as per instructions of my teachers, until I memorized Surat al fatiha, which I used as the only sura during the prayer until I kept by heart e.g. el ikhlas, a very short sura.

I did not feel one moment that my prayers were not accepted, quite the opposite. Those were the most spiritually satisfying and strongest prayers I ever made.

Islam is easy and not a burden, it is only some people are insisting to make it difficult for themselves and for others.

Allah understands all the language as he is the creater of everyting, and other than the 5 compulsory prayers, there is e.g. duwa, the invocation, meaning that at any time, anywhere, in any situation, we can tell Allah anything we want to say, and invoke him for anything we want, in any language, in our very own words, such is Allah the Merciful, the Generous.

There is no need to go to Mekka to seek knowledge because it is Allah who bestows knowledge and wisdom on whom He choses, wherever that may be. LL, if you miss English speaking knowledgable people in Luxor, (and someone claiming that men are superior to women is definetely NOT), then come to Cairo, where you could 1) start to study at Al Azhar facility for foreign students 2) start an Arabic language course while at the same time attend the numerous lessons being held in nearly all the mosques all over Cairo. All the mosques I know offer separate days for men and women, with female teachers and only girls attending. There you can learn Arabic, the Quran and get answers to all your questions inshaAllah.

If I can help you in any way, write to me: karinfarid@hotmail.com

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carleen:
The way he keeps spamming the board advertising that forum *hardly* makes me want to "check it out"!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CheckThisOut:
New Moderated Forum
http://www.youregypt.com/forum/index.php

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mokoo:
Carleen...I like your comments, short and sweet...

---

I am also a convert to Islam, although I prefer the word 'revert'. There are many many different 'ideas' and 'opinions' about the religion and how we should be. The main things are that if you believe there is only 1 God, and that Mohammad (pbuh) is the LAST messenger of God then you there! The rest comes in learning BUT beware of how, where and who you learn from!! as i said there are different opinions. Stick to the Quran, God made no mistakes. Hadith is by man, ok ok I know many will jump at me for that but its true. Islam is a perfect religion, muslims are NOT. Any hadith that contradicts Quran is not right, and any that contradict basic common sense are also to be queried. I have been muslim now 2 years (and 1 day), i did not convert for any man or anything to do with a man and I study myself, I ask 'opinions and questions' but then I go and find my answers myself. A great site www.islamworld.net.
I could ramble on for hours but i will spare you that!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ayisha:

Before you convert you have to study Islam very well. Take your time and study it. Look at different opinions and different currents within the religion and see how they fit your sensibilities. If you find at the end that you are not convinced, then no harm done, remain as you are.

I am also a convert to Islam, although I prefer the word 'revert'. There are many many different 'ideas' and 'opinions' about the religion and how we should be. The main things are that if you believe there is only 1 God, and that Mohammad (pbuh) is the LAST messenger of God then you there! The rest comes in learning BUT beware of how, where and who you learn from!! as i said there are different opinions. Stick to the Quran, God made no mistakes. Hadith is by man, ok ok I know many will jump at me for that but its true. Islam is a perfect religion, muslims are NOT. Any hadith that contradicts Quran is not right, and any that contradict basic common sense are also to be queried. I have been muslim now 2 years (and 1 day), i did not convert for any man or anything to do with a man and I study myself, I ask 'opinions and questions' but then I go and find my answers myself. A great site www.islamworld.net.
I could ramble on for hours but i will spare you that!

Ayisha

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carleen:
Not true. I'm aware of many vile acts in the Bible, including rape, incest, adultery, murder... etc. The Bible is a record of history, with history's warts & all. A particular bad act is often referred to later in the Bible under the "What Not to Do" column.

---

No, not really. I can site many examples, but I have heard many Christian clergymen defending the genocide of the Canaanites as a moral and ethical thing to do!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mokoo:
So who do you think she should ask...should she take a flight to Mecca every time she needs to ask a question???...Why would God give a very complicated message that even the Shikhs of Islam can not make sense of anyway, let alone ordinary people??? ...Kimo, you sound like a smart educated Egyptian, why don't you use your mere logic. I never answer your attacks on me becuase it's simply not my style, I have better things to keep myself busy with. Most of your answers in every topic I have posted so far is far from impressing, I understand that it's not easy to question a belief you were born with, but don't you think it's much more important to see where is this road going to take you after life...Don't take things for granted. I'm not against who do you think of me...I accept your disgust of me for the sake of you to go back and search the things I posted.

Now, don't expect me to go tick tack with arguments unless it's healthy...If I don't answer...then it's not.

[This message has been edited by Mokoo (edited 24 July 2004).]

---

Dear all,
I c that there is a huge shortage about islam.
even in where to search.
actual I have a lot of contacts if you wanna ask for any thing, they can help and if they can't thy know were you can find it.and places for religion lesson for non spoken arabic
for anyone who want such informations contact me directly on my email and I'll FWD it to them:
elkadi80@yahoo.com
or SMS on
+20101795960
as I can't give you right now their contacts on the board, as they are targets for haking and much much more.

Salam

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
No, not really. I can site many examples, but I have heard many Christian clergymen defending the genocide of the Canaanites as a moral and ethical thing to do!

Sidenote: The bible is NOT a record of history, it is a collection of stories written by very skilled and touching authors (astounding if you read it in Hebrew, the rythms are amazing) of a small and underpriveleged Semitic tribe from their tribe's point of view. Much of what the bible tells us either didn't happen, has no solid proof of happening, or didn't happen the way the bible describes it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mokoo:
Kimo I wonder why you do you always tempt taking the debate to Christianity and you're not even close to answering serious topics raised in Islam...

[This message has been edited by Mokoo (edited 27 July 2004).]

---

Because ya habiby, as I said I am on to you, I have your number I already know you're not an atheist. Your pedagoguy is typical of a Christian missionary. That's why I am asking you why you think Christianity is a better alternative?

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
No, not really. I can site many examples, but I have heard many Christian clergymen defending the genocide of the Canaanites as a moral and ethical thing to do!

Sidenote: The bible is NOT a record of history, it is a collection of stories written by very skilled and touching authors (astounding if you read it in Hebrew, the rythms are amazing) of a small and underpriveleged Semitic tribe from their tribe's point of view. Much of what the bible tells us either didn't happen, has no solid proof of happening, or didn't happen the way the bible describes it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carleen:
Ok, this officially ends any further conversation I will ever have with you. I was under the impression that you had more decorum than to say some tactless crap like that. Fortunately, I do have too much decorum to tell you what you can do with your "sidenote".

---

I really don't understand. You probably believe the Koran was written by Mohammed, who is from a small underpriveleged Semitic tribe. And you believe it's historically inaccurate. I would not consider it tactless if you say that as long as you respect Muslims and their choise to be Muslims.

So I really don't get why *I* can't comment on the bible from a secular, historical point of view. What I said is a well known fact, I don't know about America, but almost everyone I met in Europe didn't need to be told that because they already knew it! I don't really understand what I said that was so horrible that I deserve to have my post shoved where the sun don't shine!!! I will say it one more time: I LOVE Christianity and Judaism, and I have read the whole bible several times. I think it's a wonderfull book, I just don't believe it's a holy book that's all!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carleen:
Ok, this officially ends any further conversation I will ever have with you. I was under the impression that you had more decorum than to say some tactless crap like that. Fortunately, I do have too much decorum to tell you what you can do with your "sidenote".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mokoo:
Question: if the Bible is about some stories put together how come in the Quraan in every other chapter you see a verse that says "...and if you don't know ask the people of the book...."

---

Which book Mokoo? the bible or the original revealed books? I think you already know the Islamic view of this. And I thought you weren't talking to me?

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Which book Mokoo? the bible or the original revealed books? I think you already know the Islamic view of this. And I thought you weren't talking to me?

Now I want to make something clear, I am Muslim, but I have no sensitivity to the secular history of Abrahamic religions. Judaism was a very typical tribal Semitic religion. Christianity started as a Hellenistisation or Romanisation of Judaism, particularly by compromising male circumcision and adopting Roman mythology it promised to be a very fast spreading sect of Judaism. Islam is probably an offshoot of Judaism that aimed to be more suitable for the diverse and fiercely tribal people of Arabia. How these religions (or any religion) started out is interesting but it doesn't mean anything to followers of these religions today because *gasp* religions change.

---

What are the "original revealed books" define them...

And where did you get your affirmative information from regarding the beginning of religions. I would accept your post more if you start with "In my opinion" or " I think..." etc...other than that I need resources...from the heart of holy books...not from "I think...may be" book authors...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mokoo:

What are the "original revealed books" define them...

And where did you get your affirmative information from regarding the beginning of religions. I would accept your post more if you start with "In my opinion" or " I think..." etc...other than that I need resources...from the heart of holy books...not another "I think...may be" book authors...

[This message has been edited by Mokoo (edited 28 July 2004).]

---

I define original revealed books as ones that don't believe Earth is 10000 years old

I didn't say I had affirmative information, usually when I write I assume people understand I am writing both my opinion and what I read in books and websites. I don't need to qualify every sentence!

And why do you need evidence from the heart of "holy books" Mokoo, I seem to recall you called yourself an atheist, how are holy books good enough proof for you

"I seem to recall you called yourself an atheist"

Quote me saying such...where did you get that from too...

What earth you're talking about "the flat one" where the sun goes down at the end of it in a well??

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
I define original revealed books as ones that don't believe Earth is 10000 years old

I didn't say I had affirmative information, usually when I write I assume people understand I am writing both my opinion and what I read in books and websites. I don't need to qualify every sentence!

And why do you need evidence from the heart of "holy books" Mokoo, I seem to recall you called yourself an atheist, how are holy books good enough proof for you

The books I read are much less "I think, maybe" than "holy books". They are scientific books based on secular studies of history, archaeology, and anthropology.

---