What I cannot get to grip with is why in these modern times do egyptian men feel that must have more than one wife (usually a foreign one at that). I understand many years ago there could have been a viable reason for this due to honour, religion and the need to bind nations together. I also appreciate the Quoran allows the practice of taking up to 4 wives, but at the end of the day Quoran was written 100's of years ago and this IS NOW the 21st century things have changed and society moved on. Reality is that most egyptian men cannot afford a second wife and I think it is a case of pure greed on their part, using Islam to justify a lust of more sex with another woman, or simply more money and a better life.

#1 - $$$$$

#2 - $EX

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Originally posted by Debbie:
You already said it.... 9 out of 10 times there are two reasons why an Egyptian man takes a second wife (often a foreign wife)

#1 - $$$$$

#2 - $EX

No more needs to be said. For anyone that disagrees or is in a "my relationship is different" relationship, count your blessings. You are 1 of 10.

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Totally agree Debbie and if everyone is happy then thats fine. I wouldn't like it as I am a very jealous person but that is my view. It works for others.

Any arrangement with a foreign woman where the is an Egyptian wife is just that, it is an arrangement and that is their business and nobody elses. I completely fail to see how it can be called marriage as unless the foreign woman is a muslim then she is not able to enter a polygamous relationship.Hence why the embassies will not give sanction to these 'arrangements'.

My comments were about the majority of Egyptian men living in Egypt......sorry no I have no experience of what is going on in America.

I just hate to see another thread started bashing Egyptian men and no matter how big the problem in America I am sure the overaul statistics would still be very low.

What is interesting is that for a foreign woman to marry in Egypt she has to prove she is not already married. Why do the American authorities not extend the same protection to women in the states. Egyptian marriage records are easily accessable for this purpose.
[/b][/QUOTE]

Does America not recognize a marriage of an Egyptian man to an American woman and the man is already married to an Egyptian woman?

I always thought as long the American woman becomes a Moslema everyone should be happy since Moslem men can have up to four wives.

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Originally posted by Alana:
Penny we don't have a woman shortage in egypt, that is not there intention when they come here for there second marriage. There is no man shortage in america.We american woman won't be belittled like this.[/B]

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So Alana, first of all you you say, 'we...in Egypt', then, 'we American women'.

Are you contradicting yourself? Honestly, I find your analysis extremely naive, besides you don't sound American at all, not even a native speaker.

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Originally posted by Penny:
As you say British Lady we are living in modern times and the FACT is MOST and I mean MOST Egyptian men do NOT take second wives.
Egypt is not back in the dark ages, talk to the men and they will tell you they only want one wife and polygamy is a thing of the past.

Any arrangement with a foreign woman where the is an Egyptian wife is just that, it is an arrangement and that is their business and nobody elses. I completely fail to see how it can be called marriage as unless the foreign woman is a muslim then she is not able to enter a polygamous relationship.Hence why the embassies will not give sanction to these 'arrangements'.

Please don't brand the men of Egypt, where the majority definitely do not do have two wives, as not living in the 21st century.

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Penny whilst I agree that a great many of these relationships are 'arrangements' I dispute that means that none of them are a ‘marriage’.

Traditional marriages in Egypt are generally arrangements between two families where the wishes of the bride and groom are incidental to the affair. They don't hate each other, they may even like each other, they often know each other being cousins but they are rarely 'in love' with each other. Love matches in traditional rural society are virtually unknown. This doesn't make this arrangement any less of a marriage.

In the UK it is well known that arrange marriages are often entered into, especially amongst the Asian community. If you read the rules on Settlement/Fiance visas you will see that they are even catered for. This is not less of a marriage.

A Christian woman married to a Muslim man does not disobey any command of the Bible. The Bible has few rules about marriage but those it has she has obeyed. She has married one man 1 Corth 7;2 , he is a believer 2 Corinthians 6:14 the Bible also makes it clear that polygamous marriages did occur in Christians (and of course amongst Jews) and for that reason rules that deacons of the church should only have one wife 1 Timothy 3:12 but this ruling is made to deacons only. So a polygamous marriage is not restricted to Muslims only.

Western Embassies will give sanction to this kind of marriage in that they will confirm the brides freedom to marry, what they will not do is register the marriage because according to their law it is illegal.

It is not the 'dark ages' to have a second wife. All Muslims will tell you that is the difference between Islam and others; they have not changed their faith and beliefs according to the whim of fashion. The rules that Mohammed laid down are as true today as they always were. There are no modern versions of the Koran. It is not a derogatory thing for a Muslim man to take another wife in accordance with the Koran. Indeed for a Muslim man to take a widow and provide for an orphan is a good and honourable thing. I think if you go round say the teachings of the Koran are irrelevant to today you will find very little support amongst Muslim Egyptian society.

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Originally posted by akshar:
[B]
]

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Originally posted by tomy:
beacuse he need more than love
no way this love be in one women

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Sure. We girls need more than love as well. So what, up to 5?
Now seriously. How a gal with an IQ over 73.5 can really NOT KNOW that her husband is two (or three and up) timing her???? Vacation without his American spouse? Excuse me? Is he going to allow her any vacation by herself? MANY tell signs are so easy to check but then the painful truth inevitably follows. I have been around the block a couple of times ( ), and with no angels either: I know men and what they are capable of; mainly only of what we ALLOW them to be. Women are SMART. MUCH smarter than men. What allows the men to be dishonest is not the lack of knowledge or intuition in their women. It is the only creature on Earth that can overshadow the brilliance of our intellect: DENIAL. End of the story. If we really really want to wake up and smell the roses, we sure can. The choice is ours and ours only.

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Originally posted by EFLVirgo:
Good on ya, Karah, but do you actually think Tomy would get what you're on about? I doubt it.

Do *you* have an idea what *he's* on about? Beats me

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In Christian society at least it is considered adultery to even think about another partner, for didnt Jesus say something like whosoever lusts after another in the mind has already committed adultery?

I understand what you are saying and it would be interesting then to know what % of Egyptian men have more than one wife.

I will and always will defend the good decent Egyptian family men that are my friends and would never ever want to have more than one wife. I have spoken to many men on this point and I have yet to meet one that wants more than one wife. Life is hard in Egypt and the cost of one family is more than enough for most people. Their priorities are far more concerned with educating their children and making a good life for their family.

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Originally posted by BRITISHLADY:
Firstly may I state that I am happily married to my british husband !

What I cannot get to grip with is why in these modern times do egyptian men feel that must have more than one wife (usually a foreign one at that). I understand many years ago there could have been a viable reason for this due to honour, religion and the need to bind nations together. I also appreciate the Quoran allows the practice of taking up to 4 wives, but at the end of the day Quoran was written 100's of years ago and this IS NOW the 21st century things have changed and society moved on. Reality is that most egyptian men cannot afford a second wife and I think it is a case of pure greed on their part, using Islam to justify a lust of more sex with another woman, or simply more money and a better life.

If someone has fallen out of love with their wife then it is time to divorce and move on, or accept it and stay in the relationship. Family honour has really little to do with it all, surely it is best for the couple to agree support for the wife/kids and finish that marriage and have a clean split before going onto the next.

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The question is not why the Egyptian men are taking a second wife, (usually a foreign one), I think that's obvious, the question is why are FOREIGN women, suddenly forgetting their own principals and virtues and marrying into a polygamist relationship. Would they date a married man in their own country, or do their principals change when they change continents? That's the question.

We've always had a saying in the states, and its: "A man can't do what a woman won't allow him to do"

In other words a man can't be a polygamist by himself, it takes 2 or more WILLING women to give him that status.

because we know that if you give him an inch, he'll run a marathon.

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Originally posted by Debbie:
Alana.... You are joking...right? Even if you aren't, 9 out of 10 makes 90% dear, not 99%.

Don't go into Rocket Science...OK?

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The statistic I was interested in was the % of Egyptian men with more than one wife out of the whole population of Egyptian men.

Actually it is sad out of every 10 egyptian men here 9 have a wife back home in egypt & children there too. So your looking @ 99% that is on a search in the states with a wife back home, yes it is alarming numbers.

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Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:

because we know that if you give him an inch, he'll run a marathon.

[This message has been edited by AnotherNewMember (edited 28 January 2005).]

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Women! We really are fed up with your rude attitude towards us. what's wrong with women? wont they ever stop ? we have been silent for thousands of years givinng you all space to insult and complain enough is enough! Time will come when you wake up and find us no more there. We'll just go another place (was thinking of hell but someone says most women subscribed there already...damn).

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Originally posted by Alana:
AnotherNewMember,
Actually that's not true. In most cases these american women do not know& same with the egyptian wives.
There are small numbers of cases where the women enter into it as a business arrangement for money. But these men are trying to make money to send back home. Also lately they have found some mosques here in the states arranging marriages and they were aware of the man having a wife overseas.So I guess the women have to become ther own detectives and really scrutinize every detail. Better to be safe than sorry.

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Alana polygamy is illegal in the states, so that would make them BIGAMISTS, that's another topic.

But when you're giving out statistics, so that it doesnt sound exaggerated, you must take all things into consideration. I.E., if you say 9 out of 10 Egyptian men in the US has second wives back home, you have to consider first:
1. How many egyptian men are living in the US
2. How many of this group are married
3. Then how man have another wife

So less than 2% of the US population are arabs, and 95% of them are Lebanese, so that would make your percentage very very small, and almost insignificant.

"In Egypt, in 1995, there were 1200 polygamous marriages with four wives, 9000 with three wives, 12000 with two wives. In the same year there were 519 000 Marriage contracts were signed, and 83000 divorces pronounced. "
Source : Courrier International, No 488, 9-15 March, 2000. Page 27.

So if the population in Egypt in 1995 was around 70 million, and there were only 22,000 polygamist marriages, then only a fraction of 1% of the population is practicing it.

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Originally posted by Troubles101:

Women! We really are fed up with your rude attitude towards us. what's wrong with women? wont they ever stop ? we have been silent for thousands of years givinng you all space to insult and complain enough is enough! Time will come when you wake up and find us no more there. We'll just go another place (was thinking of hell but someone says most women subscribed there already...damn).

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What would we do without you

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Originally posted by Alana:
That is why american women(don't marry in egypt), you have more rights marrying here if you do. Be careful There are good and honest"single" egyptian guys out there, but many liars and deceivers.

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Is that another one of your insightful statistics or you're talking out of your behind again?

There is one 1 way to marry in Egypt if you want your marriage to be recognized outside of Egypt. This gives you the marital rights of a woman anywhere in the world, including Egypt. The same cannot be said if you got married in the US and then went to live in Egypt. You have to register your marriage in Egypt and take additional steps to make sure you receive all of the legal rights you are entitled to under Egyptian law.

Also, your logic is completely loopy. If a couple gets married in Egypt, both have to prove to the embassy and the egyptian authorities that they're single via notarized documents. That is not the case in the US, so it's the US laws actually ALLOW bigamy to go unchecked. Not the Egyptian laws. Women SHOULD in fact get married in Egypt if they want to be sure.

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Originally posted by ExptinCAI:

There is one 1 way to marry in Egypt if you want your marriage to be recognized outside of Egypt. This gives you the marital rights of a woman anywhere in the world, including Egypt. The same cannot be said if you got married in the US and then went to live in Egypt. You have to register your marriage in Egypt and take additional steps to make sure you receive all of the legal rights you are entitled to under Egyptian law.

Also, your logic is completely loopy. If a couple gets married in Egypt, both have to prove to the embassy and the egyptian authorities that they're single via notarized documents. That is not the case in the US, so it's the US laws actually ALLOW bigamy to go unchecked. Not the Egyptian laws. Women SHOULD in fact get married in Egypt if they want to be sure.

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Exactly it really is the American law not protecting its own citizens. Why does it not demand proof of freedom to marry.

Further Egyptian law gives a woman more protection on divorce in that half of her property is not handed over to her husband.

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Originally posted by Troubles101:

Women! We really are fed up with your rude attitude towards us. what's wrong with women? wont they ever stop ? we have been silent for thousands of years givinng you all space to insult and complain enough is enough! Time will come when you wake up and find us no more there. We'll just go another place (was thinking of hell but someone says most women subscribed there already...damn).

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YA cut the Gspot to So we can get some peace

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Originally posted by Ramyshaut:
YA cut the Gspot to So we can get some peace

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I don't buy this crap about the G-spot(AKA fancy spot). This spot exists only in the mind of those women who can't admit thier failure. They made up something so they can blame the innocent hard-work guy who spends the whole night fighting for any result and get nothing then his woman says oh honey you forgot my G-spot.This is a sceince fiction man. It's the guilt that drove them to invent it. dig your hand and look around you wont find anything. We only pretend to believe them so they feel good but see how ungratful are those creatures?

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Originally posted by Penny:
Thanks Anothernewmember for doing the statistics, I think that puts it into context.

What would we do without you

Penny

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No problem Penny, I try to check my facts whenever possible.

You and Expt are correct, about the US not having a systemto protect women from bigamy, the reason is because they allow marriage registries to take place of a State level and not a National level. So a man can marry one woman in NYC, another in California, and another in Florida, until he finally gets busted, then it becomes a federal crime, and he could get jail time for it.

Drivers licenses are the same way, there used to be a time when one could have their license revoked in one state, they would just go to another state to get one. But now all the states are cross referencing using a National database with your federally issued social security number. They know how to exploit the system here.

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Originally posted by Troubles101:
I don't buy this crap about the G-spot(AKA fancy spot). This spot exists only in the mind of those women who can't admit thier failure. They made up something so they can blame the innocent hard-work guy who spends the whole night fighting for any result and get nothing then his woman says oh honey you forgot my G-spot.This is a sceince fiction man. It's the guilt that drove them to invent it. dig your hand and look around you wont find anything. We only pretend to believe them so they feel good but see how ungratful are those creatures?

[This message has been edited by Troubles101 (edited 30 January 2005).]

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Actually T101, it was a MAN that discovered the G-spot, a german gynecologist, one that OBVIOUSLY took the time out to know a woman's body. You should try it.

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Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
Actually T101, it was a MAN that

And believe it or not MEN have a G-spot as well. And some of us women know EXACTLY where it is.

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You have gone so far now! That's why we men shouldn't mix with the heretic women race.

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Originally posted by Ramyshaut:
YA cut the Gspot to So we can get some peace

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NO PEAZE 4 U BOYZ: SPOTS X Y Z are ready to be released to the mass production.

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Originally posted by Alana:
[Kara, I would love to talk to you off-line sometime , do you use aim?[/B]

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My aim is bad in general, better not use it...
My yahoo ID, however, is: karah_mia

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Originally posted by Alana:
AnotherNewMember,
Actually that's not true. In most cases these american women do not know& same with the egyptian wives.
There are small numbers of cases where the women enter into it as a business arrangement for money. But these men are trying to make money to send back home. Also lately they have found some mosques here in the states arranging marriages and they were aware of the man having a wife overseas.So I guess the women have to become ther own detectives and really scrutinize every detail. Better to be safe than sorry.

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