quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:
Exactly it really is the American law not protecting its own citizens. Why does it not demand proof of freedom to marry.

Further Egyptian law gives a woman more protection on divorce in that half of her property is not handed over to her husband.

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see, the thing is (if you read again) that egyptian law says YOU have to bring them proof.

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Originally posted by Alana:
Dear Penny,

That puts nothing into context
You are not even American, take a trip my dear to the state dept. here or american embassy in usa. You don't even live in egypt why??
I have reread a lot of your posts , you second guess yourself so much. I hope you find your peace. Do what you feel from your own heart & mind. But this is the reality going on in the states. This is not a fight to hate egyptians, we love the honest and good decent ones. Like I said before if an egyptian man's sister was deceived, all "Hell would break loose" .
All we want and deserve is respect, again I repeat respect the country your in , or don't go there. Stay where you are, innocent women don't need to get hurt.

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Alana so now we hear the problem is not just from Egyptians but from Latin Americans as well. Why are you defending the weakness of the American law when clearly it is failing these women.

You are correct I am certainly not an American and no defintely have no plans to travel there.
My time is fully taken up in Egypt and the UK thank you.

Yes I feel sorry for these innocent women but in free societies like our is it not normal to lobby our governments to get the law changed if something is not working. I thought that was what we western women were all about.

I don't understand why you don't seem to approve of the Egyptian system that requires foreigners to prove they are free to marry.
It is not a hard system to implement.

As for your personal comments they are unecessary, we are here to discuss matters not try to Psychoanalyse each other. You know little of me or my life 'dear'.

Your comments to Anothernewmember also show just how little you know about how divorce works in Egypt but as that is not the subject here I will not go further into it now.

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Originally posted by Alana:
AnotherNewMember,
A whole group of my husbands egyptian friends were reading your posts, they agree you are amusing.
The men who are decent egyptian guys like my husband and have only "one wife: here ! All agreed you talk like a bird without a brain.
Your statistics are ridiculous and we would love to all chat with you.
Talk about multiple identities you should see all the arabs with numerous passports, coming into the country false Id's.
Sorry again wrong the woman has more rights marrying in the states, especially if she has children(c'mon get with it). Listen egpytian man can divorce you the same day in egypt ,if he wants ,you would be left out in the cold! oops can't use that slang. ( i guess left out on the streets!)
You really live in a fantasy world.

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Alana my dear, ignorance is truly a bliss, aren't you feeling blissful today. You can't
even read an internet forum correctly, how can we expect actual statisitics from you.

THESE ARE NOT MY STATISTICS, I provided my source, you and your "decent" husband and his friend can go directly to the source, if you have the means. All you're doing is yelling out stereotypes about arabs off the top of your head. Where do you get your sources from Alana? Kindly provide them for the rest of us 'bird brains', I'm waiting.

Then you say "sorry you're wrong again, the woman has more rights marrying in the states", are you speaking to me???? Are you too ignorant to distinguish between what I typed, and what was typed by EXPAT, did I make any comments whatsoever about who has more rights in which country, dear? I simply commented on how easy it is to become a bigamist in the US, based on the FACT that marriage registries are state wide, and NOT Federal, that's a fact my dear, which is why a American woman can also go to Egypt, and lie on an application saying she was never married,(if she chooses) there is no way the embassy can tell, because THERE IS NO FEDERAL REGISTRY.

And tell me why is that people like you who put down the entire arab/egyptian race, are always the ONLY ones to marry the lone DECENT one. Now who lives in a fantasy world, again? .

Ok, I can admit when I'm wrong, and the stastitics I provided above about the Arab population was from an older source.

The most recent source, shows they actually represent less than 1% of the population, and Egyptians and Syrians together represent 1/12%, NOW DO YOU SEE HOW INSIGNIFICANT YOUR DATA IS? http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-11-20-arab-americans_x.htm

Besides we're talking about polygamy in Egypt, you seem to be the only one concerned about it in the USA, no one else cares about what less than 1/12 of a percentage of the USA is doing. This discussion is not about who is trying to illegally enter the USA, and how many passports they have. Stay focused.

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Originally posted by MisplacedinAlex:
I think Alana brought up some good points! She was not trying to be nasty about it. Give her a break for a good opinion.
I married in USA, married 10yrs. Egyptian we over here now for 9 months don't see signs of the ther wife yet???LOL!
I'll slice it and dice it! LOL!
Do I really need to get remarried over here? What's your advice Alana? (planning on going back asap)

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Alex, have you looked under the bed yet?????

What can I say Penny I have been sitting back here and listening to the comments and I sort off got a picture now. I think it was an interesting topic that I started and yes everyone has their opinion, that is what this forum is all about isnt it?

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Originally posted by MisplacedinAlex:
Just dust balls under there so far! LOL!
I'm so annoyed!! Why does almost every topic almost come down to picking on Americans?? The Brit started it all and where did she go off to? LOL!
PLEASE THESE ARE JUST Topics & OPINIONS AND EVERYONE HAs a RIGHT TO STATE THEIRS.
American's do have to prove that we are single when we are married, one must take an oath that they are single. I don't know which percentage that lies-they end up imprisoned. I don't think it neccessary to go around demanding percentages and statistics on all topics. Where are these coming from their probably not 100% Correct!

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Misplaced, first let me say that I'm a proud American, and will defend my country and heritage in any forum when its necessary.

But at the same time I will NOT step on anyone else's heritage or nationality in order to make mine appear the greatest in the world. Her arrogance is what 'ticked' me off. This 'don't come to our country, blah blah blah, almost everyone in American except the native indians are ancestors of immigrants. I didn't appreciate the negative stereotype she painted of Arabs, re-read her overgeneralization about Egyptian men, and Lebanese, how anyone can call those VALID ARGUMENTS is beyond my imagination.

I don't tolerate stereotypes made about Americans, and I can't tolerate it made about any other nationality.

Penny asked for the statistics to show that POLYGAMY NOT AS COMMON AS PEOPLE THINK. People always make the assumption that just because polygamy is allowed in certain countries, EVERY man there is doing it. This can only lead to more exaggeration, sterotypes, and overgeneralizations, and as the studies have shown, 1% of ANYTHING, is definitely not the NORM.

BTW, there is no such thing as a 100% correct statistic, but there is such a thing as margin of error. The lower the margin of error, the more reliable the data.

And you're correct, people do have the right to state their OPINIONS, its when the pose them as FACTS there's an issue. Don't throw some 99% nonsense out there, with no sources, and not expect someone to counter it.

ANM, good point there!

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Originally posted by EgyptianSalsa:
Reading these pages, I discovered one thing: Housewives are weapons of mass destruction! There's no way I'm marrying one, ever! God bless the hard-working, financially secure, intelligent women out there; they tend to have a better understanding of the world.

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Damn right! First you get the house, then Mary, and then the Wife.

If you can't work out from past posts that you are so keen on delving into that I am not a Muslim, that I do not agree with polygamy, and I am proposing American women lobby to get the law changed to protect themselves, I am against OFRI wifes, and I am long past the point in life where material possessions are important to me, further if you condone our muslim friends foul language here and charge me for a 'dam'.
Then I am not stupid, I know when to give up thankfully.

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Originally posted by Alana:
AnotherNewMember,
Hmm, Well lets see, we know you like to type in caps, as the one arab gentleman said on another post that is shouting.( Was another topic.)

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or EMPHASIZING a certain word or phrase, back to net chat 101.

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Now lets see you said I ticked you off, for some reason I can't picture you marching in a parade carrying an american flag.

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And your vision is ABSOLUTELY correct. Nor do I say the pledge of allegiance to the flag, but I did like that grammar school song with the phrase “this land is your land, this land is MY land.....this land was made for me and you”

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You claim to be american(maybe), but you don't act and speak in that manner. I am not arrogant, I am truthful. You out of your mouth said , I don't like egptian/american. Never did I say that, or did I say that I have the only good egyptian husband.

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Which post did I TYPE, you don't like egyptian/american...quote it please.

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I am honored that in my life I have been able to meet many wonderful egyptian men and there families, also other arab men and there families, through my travels with the american red cross. These are not stereotypes , these are facts lady. Go to immigration in usa. It is not a war of egyptian against americans, it is the law here open your eyes. I am curious what your age is? You have very little knowledge or experience on the subject.[/b]

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The point that keeps going over your head, is that this was NOT the subject. The subject was about polygamy in EGYPT, NOT the USA. I'm sorry I can't relay this to you on a more elementary level, as you just don't seem to get it.

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Unless, you had this happen to you, or your husband is married overseas and doesn't care if you like it or not.? But sadly to say it is a fact in america on this subject. You contradicted yourself, giving all these stats., saying there old stats.Yes, we have a big problem in america but at least now ,there making it tougher here and the laws also.

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Define CONTRADICT, and then define, corrected oneself, and go back and see which occurred in my post. Again the BRITISH woman that started this topic about EGYPTIAN men was not concerned about laws in AMERICA

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Actually you are the type of person you can't have a conversation with ,you make it into a battle.

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or DEBATE, something you're obviously not very good at.

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"I hate egyptians,",as you think you are so wrong.I kind of feel sorry for you when , I think about it , the comment you said"I'm the only one with the decent man", I am sorry if you got screwed over by some idiot, but if you are truly american you know the laws and what's going on here. If not schedule an appointment with immigration, to discuss your views and so called old stats.

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So, let me see, I should schedule an appointment to talk to US immigration about the 1% of Egyptians practicing polygamy. And I'm the one who probably got “screwed”, dear believe me when I say, it's NOT that serious to me. I don't care what less than 1/12% of the US population is doing, but maybe its more PERSONAL for yourself

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Originally posted by Alana:
Dear MisplacedinAlex,

You seem like a very nice person. If you want send me your e-mail sometime , or do you have aol instant messenger. That's sounds neat, 9mths./first time visit?
As for your question, if I understood you correctly you lived 10 years in america and married in the states? You could check with the american embassy in Egypt. Since you are already married. Did you marry in a mosque, priest, court house, in the states? You can sanctify your marriage in america in more than one place. Are you moslem, if I may ask? I like your sense of humor, the world needs more of that. You mentioned you wanted to leave (ASAP)? Good Luck to you, you sound very down to earth person like myself.

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Is it because she is the only person to AGREE with your ignorant comments.

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Originally posted by Alana:
Penny,

Muslim, christian whatever they can voice there opinion as they like , it's better to be upfront than two-faced.
Penny you say you never said all that then read your own posts,"why I can't except this or that"? Now your against two wives, your the one that has brought up more than once about divorce & you always stress"keep property".
Ok whatever you say , maybe you have a twin on this topic and second page posting your messages. All of you are allowed to answer back and have an opinion, and I agree with misplaceinalex, I'm supposed to just keep my mouth shut. I'm so glad there are people that can distinguish right from wrong on this board.Wow you talk about contradictions.

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Originally posted by Karah_Mia:
English is not my native language either. I apologize if I am not expressing my (always humble!!! ) opinions clear enough. But then.... on the second thought, my ‘general clarity’ problem may be much more complex...

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You don't have to apologize to me Karah, or is it apoligise, , you didn't accuse me of not being AMERICAN enough.(SORRY FOR SHOUTING :d) English is not my first language either,or should I say my mother tongue, as she was an immigrant, but I think I can speak it better than Ms Red, White, and Blue, over here, who in my opinion, is not very articulate, and certainly doesnt have your sense of humor.

Before anyone attacks me it is tongue in cheek, a joke,something that appears hard to come by on this forum these days.

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Originally posted by Alana:
And as for "MisplacedinAlex, no actually I have many friends who e-mail me from this site,and one today filled me in on you,lol.
Told me just ignore you, you are another ignorant one who has very low self-esteem.
Actually you are a very unhappy person.
I'm not going to lower myself to your level , well actually , you did a good job yourself, making yourself look like a fool on here.
Thank God , I think if you touched the flag it might ignite in your hands, you are so full of hate.

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I hope that your many "friends" are not Muslims, if so, I would suggest that you should advise them that backbiting is a major sin in Islam and you should not listen to what people say behind other people's backs. Is the anonymity of the internet not enough that people have to tell tales about other people through emails where people can't defend themselves?
And even if what you were told was true, do you think that you responded to it in the best christian way?

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Originally posted by Debbie:
You already said it.... 9 out of 10 times there are two reasons why an Egyptian man takes a second wife (often a foreign wife)

#1 - $$$$$

#2 - $EX

No more needs to be said. For anyone that disagrees or is in a "my relationship is different" relationship, count your blessings. You are 1 of 10.

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Originally posted by foreigngirl:
Well, I don;t know how it is in Egypt, but here in America, if you try to have more than one wife, of course it is illegal. however, if you already have a wife, get married in the USA to another, and the government finds out, than your marriage is null and void. Only the first wife is considered. I live close to Mexico and Latin America since I live in Texas, and many Latin American try to have more than one wife, (or husband) They were married in their country, come here to work and find another, and get married without divorcing or even informing their spouse back in their country.

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Have you ever heard of a place called UTAH ??
you can have more than one wife there,
have you heard of the Mormons, the Amish ??

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Originally posted by Karah_Mia:
Sure. We girls need more than love as well. So what, up to 5?
Now seriously. How a gal with an IQ over 73.5 can really NOT KNOW that her husband is two (or three and up) timing her???? Vacation without his American spouse? Excuse me? Is he going to allow her any vacation by herself? MANY tell signs are so easy to check but then the painful truth inevitably follows. I have been around the block a couple of times ( ), and with no angels either: I know men and what they are capable of; mainly only of what we ALLOW them to be. Women are SMART. MUCH smarter than men. What allows the men to be dishonest is not the lack of knowledge or intuition in their women. It is the only creature on Earth that can overshadow the brilliance of our intellect: DENIAL. End of the story. If we really really want to wake up and smell the roses, we sure can. The choice is ours and ours only.

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That was a joke, right ?
You cannot possibly believe what you wrote, I hope!!!

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Originally posted by Alana:
Dear Penny,
Forgot two comments, as I reread your post. You asked me why defend my country since it is failing the women here? Why not defend? If everyone crawled under a rock and just became yes people, nothing would ever change or get better. If a person is a ashamed of there country or to speak up in it's defense, that is a sad way to live.
Second question you asked "why can't I accept the "Egyptian law of marriage"? You really throw words around loosely.You convert your religion fine, all respect to you. But look at your own question you'll see the answer, "Egyptian law", not "American Law", america will never accept or permit this kind of law here on multiple marriages and that is america's right to decide there own laws. Plus why don't the egyptian men tell there egyptian wives if it is so excepted? My egyptian sister-in laws who are very strict moslems, even agreed and said egyptian women are not in agreement with this "law" or system as you put it. They have feelings and rights, and are speaking up on this subject and have rights to divorce also.
Why don't you open in england like a half-way house, for women, the british women and the other wife/ along with the husband can cohabitate together? Since you think the idea is so great.

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You are a complete idiot! You're not fooling anyone Sonomod talking about your inlaws. You don't know anything about Lebanese men, so keep your mouth shut! I've been with my Lebanese husband close to 30 years, is that what you call temporary, you psychotic girl, in dire need of psychiatric treatment?

I have never in my life heard of a muslim man giving his children the option of choosing their religion. Go find someone else to tell your lies to. Children of muslim men are "born" muslim. I bet you had those kids before you met him, you liar! I know muslim men that will disown their kids before they allow them to convert, you live in a fantasy world, and have no idea what comes out of your mouth!

You are still worried that man married you for his citizenship, then he will leave you, so you come here to grind your axe!

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Originally posted by welsafty:
That was a joke, right ?
You cannot possibly believe what you wrote, I hope!!!

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I may change the 5 into 2.5 but the rest is 100% what I think. What do you find so unbelievable there? The fact that women's intuition is the best indicator of trouble in their marriage? C'mon, you should know that much about women's 'psychological structure'.

Oh, I just thought of something. If you find offensive the statement that women are wiser than man, it refers in this context to their emotional skills in receiving the vibes from the relationships. Men tend to think in more linear way, while women take 'dangerous' turns in all directions to get the better view on emotional issues. That means more often than not that a woman takes 'emotional lead' in the relationship and man either complies or rebels, depending on his ability to stand the 'nagging' part, but this is a separate issue.

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Originally posted by Penny:
hassancheb

Yes think you got it in one and yes for sure help is needed. RB is also one and the same. No doubt a new name will evolve soon... so boring.

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Get a grip.

I have been wrestling with US Constitutional law and interstate commerce law for the last two weeks. Nice how financial aid and INS regulations have forced me to take 16 credits a semester. At least I will be done with my BS in 18 months or less. I don't have time for this.

You females are so wack sometimes. Cripes I hope that the medical industry works out the kinks in menopausal therapy in time for my journey into the insane. That's what the babyboom generation is good for, medical guina pigs, then the treatments are safe and viable for my generation.

I have nothing against you. I think many of your points are excellent. But like many wives of Misryans you are disconnected and haven't delved deeply into studying the culture and what is your level of Arabic? Do you even live with him? I have read your earliest posts so I already know.

Over time, from reading in an academic standpoint, and having so many classmates and friends who have lived in Cairo (Somalis of the upper class sent their young children to Cairo to go to private schools for English/French/Arabic instruction before leaving for USA and Canada) has given me a stronger and richer understanding of what I am in for. I find that many Expats and foreign nationals who have spent over 10 years in Misr still are very insular and remote and don't give a damn.

Also why you think you can sit in judgement on peoples lives when clearly your own is so complicated is beyond me. What business is it of yours. What is it to you how deeply I choose to delve into Egytian culture, if 1/2 way or 1/4 is all I want and that is OK with my husband and family then that is up to us, why should I give up what I am at heart and what I was born and bread to. What is it to you how much of my year I live in Egypt
( and I certainly do live in Egypt) and how much I live in the UK. You have no idea how my husband and I have to dovetail our lives our work and our families. What is important is that we get our priorities right. Further we do the most important thing which I think IS part of Egyptian culture...and that is to keep our private life private and not spread it over a board like this.

So my 'dear' I shall ignore your posts in future, thank you for the good exchanges we have had, and leave it at that.

Strangely enough I do actually hope your life gets better for you and you are reunited with your daughter soon.

Most lurchers don't go back and read every friggin post on this board, but I was forced to. The search function was off so I used the yahoo advanced search to figure out persistant questions of how to organize a household when there is such a huge gap between Misryan and American lifestyles.

Penny you sit there in one thread and say you don't agree with this Orfi propaganda and then you change ranks completely.

In regards to how your life is organized and where you live and when you and your spouse is under the same roof, and if your marriage is official in both countries you go back and forth assuming that no one will keep track of the details.

I keep track. Zaravagan, or whatever the username is, squeeked out an assessment that Misryans don't often develge on egyptmad a few weeks ago and it went completely unchallenged. He and probably 50 other usernames develge what is often unsaid to foreigners.

Like I had said about 6 weeks ago, Penny since you spend 'A PORTION' of your time in the red sea touristy areas, locals won't fully give up to you the fine intrictacies of societal expectations and how very short foreigners fall short of it. They won't tell you because then you will have the opportunity to examine and critize their cultural strengths and weaknesses, let alone the probability that you will take your money and leave the country.

Since I don't have money of any worthy quantity and my in-laws know that I have a much larger capacity for mixing into Misryan culture than the average foreigner, they have higher expectations of me than for you.

Misryans don't take foreigners seriously when they are twice their husband's age and play imperial overlord to them with thier immense IRAs and monitary assets.

Misryans are so class conscious and are so astute due to their colonial history that often they disregard the supposive sincerity of Europeans knowing that their humanist prose conflicts with actions and mores.

If western women want egyptian men what does it say about men from their own country.
I have met plenty of American men mm I can see why American woman are attracted to egyptian men. If American women are so strong and independent why do they get sucked in by an already married egyptian man.
Because they want to. It is so simple, egyptian men are unlike western men.
They are far more sophisicated,charming,caring and generous not in a money sense.

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:

If western women want egyptian men what does it say about men from their own country.
I have met plenty of American men mm I can see why American woman are attracted to egyptian men. If American women are so strong and independent why do they get sucked in by an already married egyptian man.
Because they want to. It is so simple, egyptian men are unlike western men.
They are far more sophisicated,charming,caring and generous not in a money sense.

Penny my email address is janet@granaryburton.fsnet.co.uk.

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They are far more sophisicated,charming,caring and generous not in a money sense.

Man, I can't agree with that in any form. Compared to Gulf Arabs Egyptian men seem like a dream, but they're not.

Really a person should look to the individual not the nationality. Crap people are very much the same where ever you go. And yes I just contradicted myself. I must repeat this to myself every day, "people are the same where ever you go", or I would end up cold cocking the next Dutch person who asks me why 'colored' people use the same facilities as whites in my city. TOO MANY DAMN ECKNAR TOURISTS!!

In truth from survey this site and the treehouse women who go for Misryan men already married and want to broadcast it over the internet are English women.

From having to comb through everything, American women when they become aware of a second wife dump the bastard really fast.

And yes American men can be quite a hassle, their mothers often spoil the **** out of them.

Yet, from what I have heard from foreign exchange students (European, Asian and African) American men have excelent qualities, they are not as macho or sexists as other men world over, have much bigger phalluses, don't **** around as a male responsibility to society (meaning far more faithful than foreign men), many cook and clean as well as any women, often will share childcare duties equally with little compliant, far more respectful of diversity, and American men have the ability to know when they are wrong, make amends and change their behavior so they don't do it again.

American men are outrageously human, why because American men are a collection of men from all over the globe placed into a progressive society, a hard working society, a socieity with social ills that we recognize need to be addressed, worked out, and built upon to a better tomorrow.