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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
This is really getting scary. I just sat down to start a thread about how bad the Egyptians'knowledge of Arabic is.
7aya, what's your star sign?!!

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Originally posted by 7aya:
hehe really, you were going to open a thread about that? it is indeed scary! i'm a leo and u?

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We began writing in KG, and I see that Egyptian kids do as well.

At least you claim the first most important years of your ife when writing and reading skills are developed were spent in arabic. Whilst as foreigners, our entire life is spent writing from left to write, and reading this way as well. Naturally we would find more difficulties learning to read and write a new language, no matter how long we stay in a country.

Unlike adults, children learn very fast. I know foreigners that don't speak but tourist arabic, and their children are holding an entire conversation in it. And these are foreigners that do not have Egyptian parents like you do.

If your parents were rich enuff to send you to an American school, surely they could afford a private arabic teacher for you, No?

How could you be a journalist in an arabic country and not know how to write arabic, after all I see the keyboards have both english and arabic. You claim to be a muslim, and don't now how to read the clssical language of your religious book, whilst foreign muslims are seriously trying to learn it.

Something about you is very superficial if you ask me. Maybe you are one of those Egyptians that sit in cafes and refuse to speak arabic, insisting on showing off your english skills instead. Besides I see speaking english gives Egyptians more prestige to show off they were rich enuff to attend foreign schools, and you boast about it in your post.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
when i went to france and germany, i was really impressed by how much these people respect their languages. they refuse to speak any other excecpt if its a must.

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Fact is, many Germans simply can't hold a conversation in English or French. If I'm home and want to go and see an English movie that's not been dubbed none of my friends will go with me because they find it "too hard". Also, most of my German friends have a good education and went to university, yet none of them (except for a few ones who lived abroad) is able to hold a full conversation in English.

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:
How could you make it to age 10 and know how to read but not write, it makes no sense?

We began writing in KG, and I see that Egyptian kids do as well.

At least you claim the first most important years of your ife when writing and reading skills are developed were spent in arabic. Whilst as foreigners, our entire life is spent writing from left to write, and reading this way as well. Naturally we would find more difficulties learning to read and write a new language, no matter how long we stay in a country.

Unlike adults, children learn very fast. I know foreigners that don't speak but tourist arabic, and their children are holding an entire conversation in it. And these are foreigners that do not have Egyptian parents like you do.

If your parents were rich enuff to send you to an American school, surely they could afford a private arabic teacher for you, No?

How could you be a journalist in an arabic country and not know how to write arabic, after all I see the keyboards have both english and arabic. You claim to be a muslim, and don't now how to read the clssical language of your religious book, whilst foreign muslims are seriously trying to learn it.

Something about you is very superficial if you ask me. Maybe you are one of those Egyptians that sit in cafes and refuse to speak arabic, insisting on showing off your english skills instead. Besides I see speaking english gives Egyptians more prestige to show off they were rich enuff to attend foreign schools, and you boast about it in your post.

I see thru your transparency ya 7aya.

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Originally posted by 7aya:

what transparency? and why would i lie? im not sure where you are from, or if you know arabic or not. but the classical arabic is very beautiful, artistic but also difficult. as i said in my post, i elhamdullelah know how to read it, i can write it meaning i can write words if you ask me to, but i don't have such a strong command of the (classical) arabic vocabulary and language in order to be able to express myself in long articles. i find it difficult, and i know alot of people like that. and how can i be a journalist, well if you read my post dear, you'd know that i write in an english publication. and how can someone like me brought up in an arabic country would be like that, well dear thats the whole point of my post, that is the question i'm asking, why don't we egyptians respect our language. my god you have issues.
and alexo yes i applied for that job, becuase i can't write in an arabic newspaper and i wanted to be a journalist. i think you guys should read mykingdom's explanation of the difference between classical and colloquial arabic.
anyway mykingdom, your father is a great guy. when my brother and i went to an american school my mom hired an arabic teacher for us, but my brother whined about it so much that she stopped. its great that your dad listened to you. and your're right the best way to learn arabic is through the koran. i'm not sure about my chinese sign but i was born on the 15th of august 1980. but whats your normal sign? i have a feeling you are a sagitarius

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The transparency of constantly boasting about attending American or English schools, look you're doing it again in this post.

Admit it, 7aya, it gives you prestige doesn't it ya high class Egyptian?
Instead of asking why don't "Egyptians respect their language" how about starting with yourself? It's never too late to learn. You take the time to write his phonetic arabic using all the numbers in the place of letter which have no english equivalency, then you can spend some time on arabic. But I believe you are the type that get off on how much american education you have, and how perfect your english is, yet you try to change it as if you're criticising other egyptians, start with yourself. Ok

What's written in arabic journals and newspapers is called "standardised written arabic" the modern arabic spoken by the elite and educated arabs.

I actually found the writing and reading easy.. the grammar for the classical arabic is torture though and the pronunciation of some of the letters is really difficult. I just wish i had had a chance to learn when i was younger.

I don't think it was out of disrespect for the Arabic language that parents all over the world (whether Egyptian or not) are starting to prioritise English - I think it has more to do with the reality that English is fast becoming a global language. If people want to travel or do business internationally they simply need to speak it.. so parents put more pressure on their children to be fluent in it.. as you say it is quite possible to get a long in an Arabic country (from schooling, to study to work) with little to no arabic skills. Sad.

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Originally posted by Leila:

Dalia - really? I didn't have any problems finding people who could speak English in Germany except with the much older generation.

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In the area of former East Germany you will find especially many people who are not able to speak fluently any other language. The reason is that mainly the Russian language was teached during school times but not used. Couple of years English or French lessons in school were teached but never being able to use the little vocabulary or to enhance it since no one had a chance to go to other countries beside where they spoke Polish, Czech, Hungarian or Russian. F. e. I saw the first English and American people in my life when I moved to Egypt!

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Originally posted by 7aya:
i also want to know why so many foreigners come to egypt and not learn any arabic. in my high school my math teacher was in egypt for 30 years, 30 years and he doesn't speak arabic. would it have been the same if he was living in germany, or france? also my uncle's wife is american and she lived in egypt for ten years and didn't know except very basic arabic words like men fadlek, shemal, yemeen. unfortunatly there are many cases like that. i've met very few foreigners who were able to master the language.
also as a side topic, i'm very curious to know what arabic sounds like to non arabic speaking people?

best

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For my part I can thank only the Egyptian people that they are indeed so welcoming and interested in foreigners and I think thats one of the reasons what kept me there so long. Though I never attended an Arabic school I picked up many words and Egyptian "slang" during the time.

And actually I started almost a year ago out of desire with the reading and writing part of Arabic language. I think it depends very much on the person how much she/he is interested in getting to know the language better. As a foreigner you get easily by with the English or French language in Egypt, at the hotel resorts many Egyptians speak fluently Russian, German and Italian because of the business.

7aya you would be surprised how many German students actually signing up every year for learning the Arabic language at universities here in our country. Most people will use this knowledge for work purposes f. e. in Dubai.

And definitely the Arabic language whether its the speaking or writing part is one of the most difficult languages on this earth. It takes a willing person, a huge interest, a strong motive to learn this language.

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Originally posted by Leila:
What does social class have to do with this topic? Egyptians, more than any other arabs, are so preoccupied with this.. it's one of the few things i hate about Egypt.

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That's because Egypt is a poorer country than the other arab ones. Therefore in order to master English they have to send their kids to private school or the wait until they learn it in college, like the tour guys do. I even know some tour guys that are completely illiterate and speak english well enough to communicate.

But if you've been to egypt and around them long enough you will see how much prestige they get from speaking english fluently. Some will even get louder when you come near them to show off their skills. I hate it too, but that's how it is in Egypt. And I hate the AUC broads the most. They are very pretentious, and don't even like speaking their own language.

You cannot tell me that a kid grows up in an arabic country and can't learn to speak it. Dubai is different because its predominantly foreigners there more than arabs. But Egypt, no way. I know foreigners with children that learned it one year. And the younger they are the easiest it was for them to pick it up, accent and all.

The other problem is that to learn Arabic for a foreigner requires learning two languages, classical and Egyptian. So most people often learn how to speak, or to read and write, but not both, and so they never become fully functional in Arabic. I have been learning classical Arabic for several years and I get by on that, as at the beginning of my learning I didn’t know which dialect would be most useful for me. With my classical Arabic I get the gist of most conversations in Egyptian, but I can’t answer in it other than to add a few words in with my classical Arabic! But now I am at the stage where I need to take my Arabic further, like 7aya, and I need to learn to use it in a practical way to write, but I also need to improve my reading skills too. But the way classical Arabic is usually taught, the focus is too much on the grammar and dissecting the language, rather than on how to put it together in a comprehensible form and comprehending it.

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Originally posted by 7aya:

i'm not sure about my chinese sign but i was born on the 15th of august 1980. but whats your normal sign? i have a feeling you are a sagitarius

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A belated happy Birthday. You´re a Metal Monkey, in Chinese signs!

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Originally posted by 7aya:
oh mykingdom, you said you were going to open a thread about the egyptian lack of knoweledge of the arabic language, what were you planning to discuss?

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:
The transparency of constantly boasting about attending American or English schools, look you're doing it again in this post.

Admit it, 7aya, it gives you prestige doesn't it ya high class Egyptian?
Instead of asking why don't "Egyptians respect their language" how about starting with yourself? It's never too late to learn. You take the time to write his phonetic arabic using all the numbers in the place of letter which have no english equivalency, then you can spend some time on arabic. But I believe you are the type that get off on how much american education you have, and how perfect your english is, yet you try to change it as if you're criticising other egyptians, start with yourself. Ok

You try to pretend as if you're so concerned, yet you're doing it yourself. How many times in this post do you keep remindng us that you are american educated?

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Wow, Kadijah, I didn't take it that way at all! I think you are being a little too cynical. It's an esoteric thread, granted, but I think it's important. Language is *powerful.* Extremely. It either brings people together or keeps them apart. And I think 7aya is speaking about this.

I see no arrogance here, only someone reaching out to her country.

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:
That's because Egypt is a poorer country than the other arab ones. Therefore in order to master English they have to send their kids to private school or the wait until they learn it in college, like the tour guys do. I even know some tour guys that are completely illiterate and speak english well enough to communicate.

But if you've been to egypt and around them long enough you will see how much prestige they get from speaking english fluently. Some will even get louder when you come near them to show off their skills. I hate it too, but that's how it is in Egypt. And I hate the AUC broads the most. They are very pretentious, and don't even like speaking their own language.

You cannot tell me that a kid grows up in an arabic country and can't learn to speak it. Dubai is different because its predominantly foreigners there more than arabs. But Egypt, no way. I know foreigners with children that learned it one year. And the younger they are the easiest it was for them to pick it up, accent and all.

English is taught as a second language in Germany and France and many other countries. But if you don't speak it everyday, and it's not spoken in your home you lose it. It's like my Irish was spoken at home, and English taught in school all my friends and my country spoke english, thus one grows up bi-lingual. But I'm sorry I have never heard of a parent not talking to a child in their native language. So why didn't your mum talk to you in arabic, at leat you would be bi-lingual. My mum still can't speak English, and has been in London all her life. I dont get it. I even saw hispanics in america who speak English and their parents can't speak it, they grow up bi-lingual as well. What with you arab girls?

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I wish my mum had spoken Arabic to me..but i guess because my dad couldn't speak a word of it she just got used to speaking english. It is definitely not a mistake i will make when i have my own children.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
my question is why don't we love our language? why don't we respect it? do we realise how many people would love to learn arabic?
i also want to know why so many foreigners come to egypt and not learn any arabic. in my high school my math teacher was in egypt for 30 years, 30 years and he doesn't speak arabic. would it have been the same if he was living in germany, or france? also my uncle's wife is american and she lived in egypt for ten years and didn't know except very basic arabic words like men fadlek, shemal, yemeen. unfortunatly there are many cases like that. i've met very few foreigners who were able to master the language.
also as a side topic, i'm very curious to know what arabic sounds like to non arabic speaking people?

best

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Interesting topic, 7aya. I have always loved words, languages, how they convey so much more than the bare words themselves. I used to be fluent in French, but since there is no one near me to speak it, I've almost lost it completely. Like most nations seem to view English now as the international language, when I was growing up, *good families* taught their children French, which was then considered the international language. But what good did it do me? You are right, every country I go to, everyone speaks English. And honestly, spanish is the 2nd language of the US, and I would have benefitted much more from learning that.

Language can bring people together. I mean, what's the point of language other than to communicate?? When I try to speak my broken Spanish to a latino here, he is very happy and very flattered. We are immediately on good terms. But when I try to speak french to someone in Paris or Montreal, I am rebuffed and they immediately switch into English, and *not* out of politeness. I feel closer to the latino guy, even though we still may be miles apart in culture and lifestyle. Does that make sense?

And within the English language (in America), we have cultural differences, between blacks and white. That's a whole controversy within itself! And black slang binds african americans together while alienating whites, in the same way some black people think speaking *standard English* is somehow selling out to the majority. And white people frown on black slang as somehow being illiterate. (I did my college thesis on *black English* and argued, that while it's not a language unto itself, it has set grammatical patterns inherited from native African languages, changed somewhat by the Portuguese and English of the slave traders).

So I agree with you. I think it's important people strive to speak the standard version of their own language so that all can communicate. And I think everyone should, to the extent they can, learn another language. It helps bridge cultural gaps better than anything I've ever seen.

As far as what arabic sounds like to a foreigner? I'm afraid to say the first time I heard it, I thought it was *awful.* Now I *love* listening to my fiance speaking arabic on the phone. I listen to Qur'an recitations at night before I go to sleep. They are beautiful to me, even though I don't know most of what they are saying.

I would love to learn it. I don't know how well I will learn it, I think it's really difficult. I'm floundering around with just the alphabet now! I was shocked when my fiance told me I wouldn't be expected to learn Arabic if I moved to Cairo, when it's the American norm to be annoyed by foreign people who don't learn English (I disagree with this. I love hearing different languages around me).

Anyway, I'm very interested in hearing/understanding the beauty of the Qur'an. I doubt I'll ever be fluent enough with Arabic to get to that point, but I will try.

I do have a question for you. My fiance is a journalist too (TV/radio), and he said they use (or used?) Classical Arabic on the air. Is that true? He speaks classical, Egyptian, and fluent English. His English is better than most Americans' English. But I don't really understand what role, if any, Classical Arabic plays in daily life. Because now I've heard of this Modern Standard Arabic?

So could you tell me what *shamal* and *yameen* mean?

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Originally posted by scarlet water:
am a foreigner,i don speak arabic,i mean i do,but only dialect,but there s smth...am moslim and when i listen to athan or koran in real arabic language,am goin crazy,for me it sounds perfect,wonderful and amazing!!!

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:
The transparency of constantly boasting about attending American or English schools, look you're doing it again in this post.

Admit it, 7aya, it gives you prestige doesn't it ya high class Egyptian?
Instead of asking why don't "Egyptians respect their language" how about starting with yourself? It's never too late to learn. You take the time to write his phonetic arabic using all the numbers in the place of letter which have no english equivalency, then you can spend some time on arabic. But I believe you are the type that get off on how much american education you have, and how perfect your english is, yet you try to change it as if you're criticising other egyptians, start with yourself. Ok

You try to pretend as if you're so concerned, yet you're doing it yourself. How many times in this post do you keep remindng us that you are american educated?

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
Wow, Kadijah, I didn't take it that way at all! I think you are being a little too cynical. It's an esoteric thread, granted, but I think it's important. Language is *powerful.* Extremely. It either brings people together or keeps them apart. And I think 7aya is speaking about this.

I see no arrogance here, only someone reaching out to her country.

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I'm not being cynical at all.

I think in order to reach out to others you have to start with yourself, do you not agree?

It's like me criticising Irish people for no longer speaking their native language, and me not speaking it myself. Where is my own pride?

I think she gets the point, even if you don't. You obviously don't realise that speaking english is seen as prestigious in Egypt, and many upper classes like to show it off as well as boast about the american private schools. You'd have to be here to see it for yourself.

Otherwise many Egyptians are illiterate period, and can't read and write at all, much less in a foreign language. So if you can read and write in the arabic langauge it's shows you're from an educated class.

Don't you also find it ironic that foreigners come from all over the world to learn Arabic at AUC, yet a native is unwilling to learn it themselves. Besides arabic is a required course for any journalist major at AUC, look at their catalog for yourself.

I just find her a little pretentious when she made this statement "then i went to auc, again no arabic,everything is taught in english, so no chance there to improve my language". Which is a damn lie, anyone who attended AUC knows arabic is taught and REQUIRED by the ministry of education.

Their catalog reads specifically:
"Students from Arab countries must complete the university's general requirements in Arabic language before taking 300- and 400-level courses in journalism and mass communication" http://catalog.aucegypt.edu/undergrad/fields/jrmc/jrmc.html.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
why are you attacking something you don't know about? and whats so cool about an american education? i was simply talking about my life and the reasons my arabic language has weakened through the years. in fact dear i was attacking the way arabic was forbidden in my school, so i was basically attacking the system. and i am doing something about it, and have been doing something about it for the past four years. uff how are your therapy sessions going?

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Undergraduate Academic Requirements

The general academic requirements apply to all students working toward a bachelor of arts or bachelor of science degree. These requirements reflect the university's effort to bridge two cultures. Thus the university requires a high concentration of courses in its undergraduate majors, a characteristic of Egyptian education, while at the same time requiring a core of general education, the approach taken by institutions in the United States. The main components of AUC's undergraduate programs are:

A core curriculum: foundation of general education in the natural sciences, social sciences, and humanities.
Arabic language requirements. http://catalog.aucegypt.edu/undergrad/acadreq/acadreq.html

My therapy is working fine thank you, would you like her number for yourself? Deal with your own issues we all have them, do we not?

Anyway you've been exposed, I don't even believe you're a journaist, much less an AUC graduate.

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:
Undergraduate Academic Requirements

Anyway you've been exposed, I don't even believe you're a journaist, much less an AUC graduate.

[This message has been edited by kadijah2000 (edited 19 August 2005).]

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exposed really? hehe what exactly did you expose? i did take two arabic courses in uni, one was grammer for beginners, and one was arabic literature. and why on earth are you fighting with me in the first place? one moment i was discussing the arabic language, the next moment you're telling me i'm such and such. you don't believe i'm a journalist or an aucian? well who cares. i don't even know you

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Originally posted by 7aya:

exposed really? hehe what exactly did you expose? i did take two arabic courses in uni, one was grammer for beginners, and one was arabic literature. and why on earth are you fighting with me in the first place? one moment i was discussing the arabic language, the next moment you're telling me i'm such and such. you don't believe i'm a journalist or an aucian? well who cares. i don't even know you

[This message has been edited by 7aya (edited 19 August 2005).]

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So why did you lie and say no arabic is taught at AUC in the beginning of your thread, while boasting about all the english schools you attended?

This isn't a fight, it's a debate, you'll know when I'm fighting, the language gets ugly, understand?

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Originally posted by 7aya:
i've been wanting to open a thread about the arabic language for a while now. as an egyptian woman, who was born and raised in egypt, arabic naturally is my first language. however when i was 11, my parents sent me to a british school where very little arabic was taught. i stayed in that school for two years and then moved to an amercian high school where no arabic was taught and any student speaking arabic would be fined. (if this happened in any other country they would be sued) ofcourse elhamdulleah because i was in an egyptian school until i was 10, i had already managed to learn how to read arabic. in fact all my reading nowadays are in arabic. however, although i know how to write, i dont have enough command of the (classical) arabic to write, and ofcourse i didn't really care at the time.
then i went to auc, again no arabic,everything is taught in english, so no chance there to improve my language. when i graduated and had my first job, i was really embarrased when my boss asked me to write a letter in arabic. i just stared at her blankly, and stuttred, but i can't write arabic! at that moment i realised how ridcolous it is for someone like me who spent her entire life in an arabic speaking country, but is incapable of writing in arabic is! and it started haunting me. i hired a private teacher to teach me how to write, but the woman just didn't know what to do with me. and now that i'm a journalist, it makes me feel even worse. i'm forced to write in an english publication, when all i want to do is write for my own people, and how many of them can read english?
now my parents are defintly to blmae for this, but the thing is they are not the only ones. i know many people especially in the upper or upper middle class, who prefer to have children with good english or french, rather than good arabic. i know people who boast, yes boast that they can't read arabic? did you ever see a french person boasting of not being able to read french? i also know many women who teach their babies english first and then later arabic.
why do we have so much disrespect for our own language? and its not just any language, its the most beautiful and richest language in the world.
further, speaking english has become a must if someone wants to be considered classy. does this happen in any language? when i went to france and germany, i was really impressed by how much these people respect their languages. they refuse to speak any other excecpt if its a must. unlike us, where you find two egyptians sitting in a cafe, speaking only in english.
its not just that, but look around at the shop names, its all in english. its "balady" to write it in arabic. even my dad he put the name of our store on both sides in english. and i told him why don't you put one side in arabic? i mean you are in egypt, and you are selling to egyptians arent you?
my question is why don't we love our language? why don't we respect it? do we realise how many people would love to learn arabic?
i also want to know why so many foreigners come to egypt and not learn any arabic. in my high school my math teacher was in egypt for 30 years, 30 years and he doesn't speak arabic. would it have been the same if he was living in germany, or france? also my uncle's wife is american and she lived in egypt for ten years and didn't know except very basic arabic words like men fadlek, shemal, yemeen. unfortunatly there are many cases like that. i've met very few foreigners who were able to master the language.
also as a side topic, i'm very curious to know what arabic sounds like to non arabic speaking people?

best

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:
So why did you lie and say no arabic is taught at AUC in the beginning of your thread, while boasting about all the english schools you attended?

This isn't a fight, it's a debate, you'll know when I'm fighting, the language gets ugly, understand?

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i did not lie. by no arabic i meant most of the courses were in english, and the couple of arabic courses i took were for beginners so i didn't have a chance to devlop my classical skills or at least to recover what i have lost. i don't need to lie. i did not open this thread to fight with anyone, or to boast. i simply opened it to discuss a social problem i see around egypt. everyone here replied to my question, and we are all discussing our different point of views, and youre the only one who is attacking. if you want to debate me about the social problem i've discussed please go ahead, but telling me i'm a liar and a show off, seems more like a personal attack to me.

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:
I think she gets the point, even if you don't. You obviously don't realise that speaking english is seen as prestigious in Egypt, and many upper classes like to show it off as well as boast about the american private schools. You'd have to be here to see it for yourself..

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I *obviously* don't realize? Nothing about anyone on this board is obvious or not. It's such a minuscule expression of who we really are. As such, I think it's important that we all (myself included) try to take a post only at its face value and not read so much into what type of person we *think* is writing the post. Because when we do, we draw from our own experiences only, which don't necessarily reflect who the poster actually is.

Because I *do* realize how prestigious English is in Egypt. I'm engaged to one of those upper-class Egyptians who's all hyped up on English.

That's why I was happy to see 7aya express interest in being able to communicate with her countrymen, in its language. Because I know so many people from priviledged backgrounds who are so arrogant and condescending they'd rather just see those they consider *beneath* them to be exterminated.

I don't come from privilege, but I've made it there. I was looked down on most of my life by the upper classes, so I know how that can hurt. But just because someone was born into a privileged family doesn't make that person bad somehow. It's what you *do* with what you've got that matters. I was upset that wealthier people looked down on me without first getting to know me. So I would not, and will not, do the same thing to them.

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:
I just find her a little pretentious when she made this statement "then i went to auc, again no arabic,everything is taught in english, so no chance there to improve my language". Which is a damn lie, anyone who attended AUC knows arabic is taught and REQUIRED by the ministry of education..

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Personally, I didn't see any suggestion that she was putting people down who didn't have the opportunities she had. I saw her highlighting deficits in her education, things she wished she had.

And I'll take your word for school language requirements because that's something I definitely know nothing about. But my first thought was she knows Arabic well enough to meet AUC requirements, yet not well enough to meet her own personal standards. American newspapers are required to write on the 8th grade level (what a 13-year-old would understand). American colleges don't require much more than that for entry. I wouldn't be happy with that minimal level of English *proficiency.*

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:

So she can bullshit the rest of you, but as I said, i see thru transparency, and I have no issues.

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I never said you had issues. ?

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:
Anyway you've been exposed, I don't even believe you're a journaist, much less an AUC graduate.

[This message has been edited by kadijah2000 (edited 19 August 2005).]

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She is a journalist. I've read some of her articles on line. Her stuff is good, much better than what I could have written at her age.

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
She is a journalist. I've read some of her articles on line. Her stuff is good, much better than what I could have written at her age.

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Vacant Positions (Faculty)
How to Apply
Vacant Faculty Positions (A-Z by discipline)
Applications are invited for the following openings at The American University in Cairo (AUC). Founded in 1919, AUC's campus is curently located in Cairo, Egypt, but will be moving to a new, state-of-the-art campus in New Cairo beginning Fall Semester, 2007 (see the New Campus website). AUC's degree programs are accredited by the Commission on Higher Education of the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools. Ph.D. in an appropriate field is required for every position except where otherwise specified. University teaching experience is strongly preferred. One- two- or three-year appointments subject to mutual agreement to begin September 2006, unless indicated otherwise. Renewal of an appointment depends upon institutional needs and/or the appointee's performance. Most professorial-level positions are potentially tenurable.

The normal teaching load is three courses per semester and English is the language of instruction.

Salary and rank are according to scale based on qualifications and professional experience. For expatriates, housing, annual round-trip air travel for appointees and qualifying dependents, schooling for up to two children and other benefits are included. In view of AUC's protocol agreement with the Egyptian Government, which requires specific proportions of Egyptian, U.S., and third-country citizen faculty, at this time preference will be given to qualified applicants who are U.S. citizens.

The American University in Cairo is an Equal Opportunity Employer
Vacant Positions (A-Z by discipline)

Art
Biology
Chemist
Comparative Vetebrate Anatomy
Composition
Computer Science
Construction Engineering
Cultural Anthropology
Development Studies
Economics
Electronics Engineering
Finance
International Business
International Relations/Middle East
Law: International and Comparative Law
Material Scientist/Engineer
History: Modern Middle East History
Management
Marketing
Mathematics
Mechanical Engineering
Philosophy
Political Science
Psychology
Sociology
TEFL/Applied Linguistics
Writing Program, Director
Writing Program, Instructor

How to Apply

E-mail letter of application specifying Position # with a current c.v. and arrange to have three recommendation letters and transcripts mailed to:

Applications from USA and Canada:
Dr. Earl (Tim) Sullivan, Provost
The American University in Cairo, WEB
420 Fifth Avenue, Fl. 3-WEB
New York, N.Y. 10018-2729
email: facultyaffairs@aucnyo.edu

Applications from Egypt, Middle East and Europe should be forwarded to:
Dr. Earl (Tim) Sullivan, Provost
The American University in Cairo, WEB
113 Kasr el Aini Street, P.O. Box 2511
Cairo 11511 Egypt
email: facultyv@aucegypt.edu

Additional applications requirements might be added for some of the following advertisements.

For full consideration, candidates must also complete the Personnel Information Form provided at http://forms.aucegypt.edu/provost/pif3.html

Deadline of Applications is stated below at the end of each position description.

The American University in Cairo is an Equal Opportunity Employer


Position Descriptions (A-Z by discipline)
Art faculty. The Department of Performing and Visual Arts anticipates Two openings in the Art Unit of the Department of Performing and Visual Arts. The Art Unit presently has 3 full-time and 8 adjunct faculty serving approximately 40 Art majors and a number of minors. Teaching responsibilities: three courses per semester from among the following areas: two-dimensional design, painting, drawing, sculpture, and mixed media. Occasional teaching of special topics in areas of interest/expertise. One of the two positions will receive a one-course release each semester to serve as Director of AUC’s Falaki Gallery. Applicants must have a terminal degree (e.g. MFA), college level teaching experience, and appropriate exposure as a practicing artist. Position #: PVA-1/2. Priority will be given to applications received by November 30th.

Biology: Comparative Anatomist. Successful candidate must be able to teach Comparative Vertebrate Anatomy, Physiology and Developmental Biology. Candidates with experience in applied Quantitative Biology are highly encouraged. Candidates are also expected to teach introductory level courses in general biology for science and non-science majors. Position #: BIOL-1. Deadline for applications is November 30th.

Computer Science. The Department of Computer Science has two vacancies. Candidates will teach upper division of undergraduate and graduate courses preferably in the areas of Computer Graphics and Multimedia Systems. Position #: CS-1/2. Deadline for applications is November 30th.

Construction Engineering. The Department of Construction Engineering has an opening in structural analysis, concrete design and steel design. Successful candidate will teach undergraduate and M.Sc. level courses and conduct research in structural systems, analysis and design. Relevant professional experience would be a plus. Position #: CENG-1. Deadline for applications is November 30th.

Cultural Anthropology. Geographical area of specialization: Middle East, Sub-Saharan Africa, United States, or transnational-diasporic cultures. Interests can include contemporary theory, development, applied anthropology, and/or rural/urban studies. Undergraduate courses will include Introduction to Cultural Anthropology and other courses such as Arab Society, Contemporary Anthropological Theory, Peoples of the Middle East, Language in Culture, Peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa, Political Anthropology, Environment, and Fieldwork Methods. Appointee will teach one graduate course per year in an area of candidate’s interests and program needs. Ph.D. required. Position #: ANT-1. Priority will be given to applications received by October 15th.

Economics. The Department of Economics anticipates a vacancy. The successful candidate will teach both undergraduate and graduate courses in theoretical and applied econometrics as well as mathematical economics, supervise Master theses, actively participate in research and research mentoring. The applicant should be also familiar with common econometrical, statistical and mathematical packages. Position #: ECON-1. Deadline for applications is November 30th.

Electronics Engineering. The Department of Electronics Engineering has an opening for a faculty member to teach undergraduate courses in the areas of Electronics and VISI. Participation in research is expected. Position #: EE-1. Deadline for applications is November 30th.

TEFL/Applied Linguistics. The English Language Institute anticipates one opening for a faculty member experienced in TEFL/Applied Linguistics to teach and do research in the MA in TEFL Program. Specialization and experience in some combination of the following areas: pedagogical grammar: the teaching of writing, reading, speaking, or listening in the EFL/ESL context; CALL; language transfer; corpus linguistics, with focus on classroom applications. Experience or interest in teaching online would be an asset. The position primarily involves teaching in the M.A. in TEFL Program and supervising theses. Ph.D. required. Position #: TEFL-1. Priority will be given to applications received by October 15th.

History: Modern Middle East History. The Department of History anticipates an opening for a historian with specialization in modern history of Middle East/North Africa, to teach required survey courses and some upper-division and graduate seminars. Ph.D. required. Position #: HIST-1. Priority will be given to applications received by October 15th.

Law: International and Comparative Law. The Department of Law, Ibrahim Shihata Memorial LL.M. Program in International and Comparative Law is seeking candidates with comparative law knowledge in the field of law and economic development in “transitional” contexts. Areas of interest include: Law and Development; Intellectual Property; Comparative Antitrust and Securities Regulation; Comparative Corporate Governance; and/or European Union Law. Knowledge of Arabic is useful. For more information about the LLM Program go to: http://www.aucegypt.edu/academic/llm/. Position #: LAW-1. Priority will be given to applications received by November 1st.

Management. The Department of Management anticipates the following vacancies:

Finance. It is expected that applicants will have a Ph.D. by September 2006. The successful applicant will have expertise in one or more of several possible subfields, including investments, corporate finance, financial markets, insurance, banking, real estate and financial management. The applicant should be actively engaged in research and have a solid understanding of the practical issues faced by managers. Salary and research support are competitive. Position #: MGMT-4.

Management. An opening in the field of Management. Areas of interest may include management of small business, entrepreneurship, management functions, leadership, strategy, decision-making and organizational behavior. The responsibilities of the position include graduate and undergraduate teaching, participation with the preparation for the Department of Management's accreditation by the AACSB, and professional growth and scholarly research. Applicants should demonstrate potential or have an established record of both strong research and teaching ability. We are seeking applicants who are willing to maintain AACSB qualifications in their appropriate field. All areas of specialization are considered. Ph.D. from AACSB-accredited institution required. Position #: MGMT-1. Review of candidates to begin immediately; applications accepted until positions are filled.

Marketing. The Department of Management anticipates an opening in the field of Marketing. Areas of interest may include sales management, marketing research, consumer behavior, advertising/promotion management, international marketing and services marketing. The responsibilities of the position include graduate and undergraduate teaching, participation with the preparation for the Department of Management's accreditation by the AACSB, and professional growth and scholarly research. Applicants should demonstrate potential or have an established record of both strong research and teaching ability. We are seeking applicants who are willing to maintain AACSB qualifications in their appropriate field. All areas of specialization are considered. Ph.D. from AACSB-accredited institution required. Position #: MGMT-2. Review of candidates to begin immediately; applications accepted until positions are filled.

Executive Leadership Professorship. The American University in Cairo is now accepting nominations and applications for the newly endowed Willard W. Brown International Business Leadership Professorship, to be known as the AUC International Business Leadership Chair. The terms of the endowment stress that the appointee will be a recognized authority in international business with extensive experience in researching solutions to problems encountered by multinational business organizations. In particular, the successful candidate will have a history of resolving problems related to leadership in international trade, finance and marketing. A demonstrated understanding of the importance of cross cultural and international friendship and good will is required. The recipient of the Chair will be a member of the Department of Management in the School of Business, Economics and Communication and will be responsible for the School’s Executive Leadership Training Program. The appointee will be expected to become a central figure in the training of future leaders of international and local business organizations. Through teaching, lectures, and scholarly publications the appointee will provide AUC's students and the greater Cairo business community with insights and techniques of the highest quality for the management of international business. The endowment provides a competitive stipend. The duration of the appointment is open to negotiation. Position #: MGMT-3. Review of candidates to begin immediately; applications accepted until positions are filled.

Mathematics. The Department of Mathematics anticipates one vacancy. The successful candidate will teach all levels of undergraduate mathematics courses, as well as participate in research. Candidates with expertise in Actuarial Sciences will be given special consideration. Position #: MATH-1. Deadline for applications is November 30th.

Mechanical Engineering. The Department of Mechanical Engineering has two openings:

Position # MENG-1. Faculty member to teach thermodynamics, fluid mechanics and heat transfer.

Position MENG-2. Faculty member to teach mechanical design with emphasis on vibration and control.

Ph.D. in relevant area is required. The successful candidates are expected to have a strong commitment to teaching and to be active in research. Deadline for applications is November 30th.

Philosophy. The Department of Philosophy anticipates a vacancy. Successful candidate will teach two sections of Critical Thinking in the University's Core Curriculum, plus one other course each semester. AOS: Open. AOC: Open. Preference will be given to someone with in-depth knowledge of the history of philosophy, and specialization in Medieval Philosophy or American Philosophy. The candidate should have proven teaching ability. Ph.D. required. Position # PHIL-1. Priority will be given to applications received by November 1st.

Political Science. The Department of Political Science anticipates two vacancies:

Development Studies. An opening for a senior level person with a Ph.D. in Political Science or Political Economy, with a specialization in Public Policy and/or International Development to act as coordinator of the graduate program of Professional Development. This is an academic graduate program requiring students to demonstrate research and writing competence of a high academic quality while also providing some exposure to practical aspects of development work. The position requires teaching as well as administration and creative leadership. It includes working with the students in the program and career advising. Teaching experience is required, preferably on the graduate level and involving thesis supervision. Experience with international and/or regional development projects in the developing world is essential. Position #: POLS-1. Priority will be given to applications received by October 15th.

International Relations/Middle East. Possible vacancy. Expertise in International Relations, global politics, and foreign policy analysis, with a focus on the Middle East. Courses will include IR theory, East-West relations, Inter-Arab relations, Middle East Politics and/or foreign policies of Middle Eastern states. Ph.D. required. Position #: POLS-2. Priority will be given to applications received by October 15.

Psychology. Two openings. The successful candidate will teach introductory psychology and additional courses in the general psychology undergraduate curriculum and possibly the core curriculum. The area of specialization is open. In addition to the application instructions, candidates should provide a statement of teaching philosophy, copies of recent student evaluations, and copies of two recent publications. Ph.D. required. Position #: PSY-1/2. Priority will be given to applications received by October 15th.

Science and Technology Research Center (STRC)
The Science and Technology Research Center at The American University in Cairo was set up in 2002 to serve as an interdisciplinary center that cuts across the engineering and science departments at the university. The center supports a variety of nanoscience and technology-oriented projects, which make use of its state-of-the-art imaging, analysis and fabrication equipment. The center currently has two post-doctoral research openings, one in the area of physical chemistry and one in the area of material science/engineering.

Chemist: The position is to investigate electrochemical processes at the solid/liquid interface using Atomic Force Microscopy (AFM). A particular focus will be on studying the behaviour of electrodes with conducting arrays of nanotubes/rods/wires. Candidates for the post will have, or be about to have, a Ph.D. in Chemistry with extensive knowledge of AFM experimentation. Familiarity with nanotubes/rods/wires growth techniques and knowledge of electrochemical experimentation are an added asset. Position # STRC-1.

Material Scientist/Engineer: The position is to investigate the mechanical properties of bulk nanostructured materials with the aim of designing new materials with enhanced properties. The research will be focused on the fabrication of bulk nanostructured metals and alloys and metal matrix nanocomposites reinforced with nanowires and nanotubes. Candidates for the post are expected to have a Ph.D. degree in materials science or engineering, with experience in the use of FESEM (with EDX and EBSD) and TEM. Familiarity with the use of AFM and Nanoindenter is an added asset. Position # STRC-2.

Candidates for the two posts must be highly motivated, demonstrate an ability to conduct creative and independent research, and have excellent analytic and interpersonal skills. Appointments will be made at the level of assistant professor for 2 years, in the first instance, starting January 2006, or as soon as possible thereafter. More information about the center can be found at http://www.aucegypt.edu/academic/strc/. Screening will begin in November and continue until the position is filled.

Sociology. The candidate must have a strong background in forced migration, refugee studies, and resettlement issues and will be teaching graduate courses in the Forced Migration and Refugee Studies graduate diploma program. The successful candidate will also teach undergraduate sociology courses, such as introductory sociology courses, as well as courses in the candidate’s areas of expertise. A specialization in one or more of the following areas is preferred: social psychology, gender, stratification, criminology, media, technology, medical sociology or social movements. Commitment to teaching and an active program of research and scholarship are essential. In addition to the application procedures listed, a statement of teaching philosophy and research agenda are needed. Ph.D. required. Position #: SOC-1. Priority will be given to applications received by October 15th.

Writing Program: Composition & Rhetoric. Two openings:

Director. Experience with program administration and commitment to effective teaching a must. Ph.D. in Rhetoric and Composition and experience with CAI and curriculum development a plus. Duties include selecting and supervising a faculty of 30+, encouraging faculty development and program assessment activities, and serving as liaison to university departments. Position #: RHET-1. Priority will be given to applications received by November 15th.

Writing Instructors. Several openings for experienced composition and rhetoric instructors to teach writing, rhetoric, and research in the Writing Program. Experience with information technology, Business/Technical Writing, and/or curriculum design would be a plus. MA in Composition, Literature, or related field within the humanities is required. Position #: RHET-2/5. . Priority will be given to applications received by November 15th.

Back to Top
How to Apply

I know Egypt is a little behind on things, but I've seen keyboards here, in fact I'm typing on one, that has Arabic and English, and I don't know many journalist that actually write, as in their own handwriting, for newspapers. I always see them in print, arabic or english alphabet, but print no less.

Maybe I went overboard calling you a liar, but I do think you have a tendency to sensationalise a little bit, and it's probably a typical upperclass mentality.

Because I am the type of person that reads between the lines, and I can't count how many times I've read even in other threads you mentioning you american education.

It seems to me your purpose of this thread was not to raise awareness about Egyptians not being able to read in Arabic, if so then you would have mentioned somethng about the illiteracy rate in this country that affects the lower classes.

I personally think you just wanted another opportunity to mention your upperclass background no matter how exagerrated it may be. And I still believe that, and you or snozing will not convince me otherwise.

Now Ms. concerned please address the illiteracy problem in Egypt, or but then you couldnt mention your privte school education then could you?

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Originally posted by 7aya:
by the way i did make fun of egyptians who "boast" about not speaking arabic, egyptians do show off with their english and thats the point. also, i wasn't trying to be pretentious about talking about auc, or my education. i was simply talking about my life. so anyone who goes to auc is not allowed to talk about it because then they are showing off? ill alert all aucians. if you follow my posts on this forum, youll find that i discuss many things in my personal life. i talk alot about spending four years in alexandria. do you think i'm showing off with alexandria too?

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Actually you've said you're from Alexandria, not just spendind four years there.

Showing off is everywhere in Egypt. People don´t even articulate normally in order to show off they come from a higher class.

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
This all makes me very confused about raising my child in a multilingual setting. You see I´m Egyptian living in Holland, my husband is German and we´re planning to move to England next year. So there are 4 languages involved, if you´d consider Dutch a `language`, hehe.
Because I didn´t want to confuse my baby, I chose to speak English to him, and his father speaks German. But now I really think I should speak Egyptian to him, and he should learn English in England. I´ve read so much about bilingual children, but there´s almost nothing about multilingual upbringing. What I know is that some kids grow up to be introvert and even depressed if they get too confused between languages. A friend of my husband´s who´s half German half Iranian, and who´s 41 , does not speak one word Persian, because back then they said two languages is too much for a growing child. Of course we know now that this is bull.
So is there a maximum limit..

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That is so cool! Your kids could end up being fluent in multiple languages! I wish I had some advice on how to handle raising kids to be multilingual but I have no idea. I think I read somewhere if they are taught very young, they somehow know how to differentiate it, especially if they are only speaking one lanugage at school and another at home. Or one language to one parent, another with the other parent. I had friends whose family was from Chile. The kids were born in the US and grew up speaking Spanish til they got to kindergarten. They picked up English easily and then would listen to their parents in Spanish and reply in English! Weird, but it worked. The one girl gave up Spanish because she didn't like it, but it had been embedded enough as a child that when she decided at 30 to pick it up again, she was fluent almost instantly.

Good luck with everything. I think giving a child more than one language is a wonderful gift.

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Originally posted by kadijah2000:
Actually you've said you're from Alexandria, not just spendind four years there.

Please get your lies straight.

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My older children attending right now an US Elementary School here in Germany so this means they will be having more training in the English language, particulary in the writing part.

I am trying to keep up with the German language at home, I got them learning computers and just ordered school books for German language and mathematics incl. worksheets. I am really trying to keep them up in my native language too. Please bear in mind that my son was speech-delayed, he started saying the first words when he was about 3.5 years old so the English language is still for him more prevalent.

Just keep in mind that children should grow up with the native languages of both parents. It might seem to be a struggle and gets confusing at times but the kids will thank you later on for all your efforts.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
really? you liked my articles? thats a great compliment from an intelligent woman like you. thanks snoozin

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Yeah, I was looking through the paper online for something else, and your named popped up. So I read a few articles. Very cool!

:-)

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Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
About showing off. Do you know that many Egyptians claim proudly and often falsely that they have Turkish roots.. If and only if they knew that the Turks who were in Egypt were the garbage of their country, and that the Turks are still considered Eurotrash.

Showing off is everywhere in Egypt. People don´t even articulate normally in order to show off they come from a higher class.

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Yes and 7aya is one of the,, am I the only one who is tired of hearing her boast about her private school education in almost any discussion, rather it's relevant or not it seems to make it's way into the conversation.