Does he have a lot of business? I didn't think Muslims did tattoos. ?? Does he have a lot of expat business?

I love tattoos. Sigh.

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Originally posted by lemonspice:
For anyone who's into tattoos, or simply wants to try having a small one(or a big one) for a start, u must contact Al. He's an irish professional&experienced tattoo artist, who's been working for over 7 years in this. Located in maadi, u can email him for more info on tattoos4all@hotmail.com
He has countless designs all over the place that will appeal to every taste to choose from, or u can bring something of ur own& he will work on it. I got a fairy butterfly dona last week, more irritating than painful(like hair removal ladies!), and the results were beautiful!

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
I didn't think Muslims did tattoos. ??

I love tattoos. Sigh.

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I dont think Muslim do tatoos either. She said his Irish anyway.

Just to be sure on the ruling of tatoos, you can check this link out: http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=9222&dgn=4

"It was narrated that Abu Juhayfah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the one who does tattoos, the one who has a tattoo done, the one who consumes riba (usury or interest) and the one who pays it, and he forbade the price of a dog and the earnings of a prostitute, and he cursed the image-makers.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5032). "

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Originally posted by Kamal211:
I dont think Muslim do tatoos either. She said his Irish anyway.

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Originally posted by Dalia:

Actually he has lots of Egyptian clients and I think it's safe to assume that the majority of them are Muslims.

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Good point Dalia majority might be muslims, but i dont know why you chose the smily sunglass message icon to show that point

On the other hand this is the beaty of our religion and muslims:

“Every son of Adam commits sin, and the best of those who commit sin are those who repent.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi

Also Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful; He forgives all sins.

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Originally posted by Kamal211:
but i dont know why you chose the smily sunglass message icon to show that point
[/B]

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As much as I know muslims are not allowed to do tattooing, its haram. All I ever found were guys wanting to give me a henna tattoo which indeed can look great too and most important - its not permanent.

Anyway, lemonspice, have fun with your new art work on your body!

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Originally posted by lemonspice:
Actually most of his clients are egyptian muslims. I don't understand why people make a big deal out of it, it is just a pice of art on your body, usually a way to express yourself, what's wrong with that? What most of us don't know(i didn't until someone told me!) id that the first society in the world that was practicing tattooing was the good ol' Pharoahs! Hooray.
By the way, all his equipment is sterilised.
He certainly has all kinds of visitors, from expats & mixed egyptians to egyptian residents. What does it have to do with the nationality or religion anyway?

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quote:

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Originally posted by lemonspice:
Actually most of his clients are egyptian muslims. I don't understand why people make a big deal out of it, it is just a pice of art on your body, usually a way to express yourself, what's wrong with that? What most of us don't know(i didn't until someone told me!) id that the first society in the world that was practicing tattooing was the good ol' Pharoahs! Hooray.
By the way, all his equipment is sterilised.
He certainly has all kinds of visitors, from expats & mixed egyptians to egyptian residents. What does it have to do with the nationality or religion anyway?

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Originally posted by 7aya:
actually it has alot to do with religion. at least islam. if you feel you want to do it, then do it. but don't say it has nothing to do with religion.

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Deep in the back of my mind I was sometimes thinking to get one done but then I imagined 40 years or so later on, I'd be a granny, sitting in a rocking chair surrounded by all my grand-children. How would that look an old woman with tattoos on the body?

Now I know you can remove them with through laser surgery - but still.

a question

yes i am moslim and egyptian
my question is the concept why this is haram and this one is halal
because deep inside me , i dont find tattoo is haram, but cant do it because just we say it is haram.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
hi snoozin, no actually i don't have problems posting elhamdullelah. and chocolat yes tatoos are permanent and henna washes away after a day or two. im not sure but i think you are egyptian and musilm so why are you asking very basic questions like that?
by the way guys i read somewhre that tatooing is a form of self-mutilation. i don't mean to offend anyone but thats what i read.

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tried the email but got no reply.....

does the guy have a phone number??

will be in cairo soon and like to do an appointment... is he very busy??

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Originally posted by Corvinous:
I guess you can get STAMPED in Cairo ...

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I don't know where you can get that in Cairo, but I know someone in Sharm who would be delighted to serve YOU for free..

Her name is Samia

I have heard that one of the reasons it's haram is that it alters your body, which is God given and therefore perfect. I have also heard it is because in the Prophet's time (pbuh), people who had tattoos were pagans and worshipping false gods and these tattoos were representative of these page religions. I have *also* heard that people do tattoos out of vanity and that's discouraged.

But I will let you know if/when I find official explanations as to why it's haram.

Salaam,

Susan

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Originally posted by Chocolat:
hi 7aya,

yes i am moslim and egyptian
my question is the concept why this is haram and this one is halal
because deep inside me , i dont find tattoo is haram, but cant do it because just we say it is haram.

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The grounds for the prohibition of tattooing:
There is a difference of opinion among the scholars as to the grounds for prohibiting tattooing.

1. Deception:
Some said it is prohibited as it is a form of deception. Imâm al-Qurtubî reported that some scholars said: “It entails deception, as Ibn Mas‘ûd said: ‘Allâh has cursed the women who tattoo and the women who have themselves tattooed…and who make spaces between their teeth for beauty.’”

2. Changing the creation of Allâh:
The majority of scholars said that it is prohibited as it entails changing the creation of Allâh Almighty by adding something permanent to the body through pricking it with needles and torturing it for no need or necessity. Their evidence was the following:

a. What is reported by Allâh Almighty in His Book was that Shaytan said: “‘Verily, I will mislead them, and surely, I will arouse in them false desires; and certainly, I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and indeed I will order them to change the nature created by Allâh.’ And whoever takes Shaytân as protector instead of Allâh, has surely suffered a manifest loss.” (4:119)
What is meant by Allâh’s words: “…to change the nature created by Allâh” is tattooing according to Ibn Mas‘ûd and Al-Hasan Al-Basrî. So one of the grounds for prohibiting tattooing is changing the creation of Allâh.

b. The previously mentioned Hadîth of Ibn Mas‘ûd: “Allâh has cursed the women who tattoo and the women who have themselves tattooed…the women who make spaces between their teeth for beauty, such ladies change what Allâh has created.”
In the narration reported by Imâm Ahmad on the authority of Ibn Mas‘ûd he said: “I heard the Messenger of Allâh (peace be upon him) curse the woman who pluck hair from their faces, who make spaces between their teeth for beauty, and the women who have themselves tattooed, such ladies change what Allâh has created.” This Hadîth has referred to the grounds for prohibiting such acts. The chosen opinion is that of the majority of scholars as the Hadîth clearly states the reason for prohibition (changing the creation of Allâh).

The difference between tattooing, dying the hands and feet with Henna, and using Kohl:
Based on the fact that the grounds for prohibiting tattooing is due to it changing the creation of Allâh with something that is permanent, then changing the creation with that which is not permanent, is not prohibited. Therefore, using Kohl to beautify eyes, dying hands and feet with Henna and Katm, using blusher on the cheeks, and using beauty aids in general is permitted. Imâm Al-Shawkânî said: “The prohibition is only pertinent to permanent changes. As for those changes that are not permanent, such as Kohl, Henna and Katm, they were considered permissible by Imâm Mâlik and other scholars.”

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Originally posted by newcomer:
The main reason that tattooing is haram is that it has been forbidden by the Prophet. In some cases both Allah and the Prophet made things forbidden without giving reasons, and in these cases we accept it as such. We may try to find reasons as to why something is forbidden, we may be able to make analogies with other rulings or we may discover a scientific reason that indicates why something is forbidden, but unless the reason has been stated by Allah or the Prophet it will remain as an assumption. However, in the case of tattooing, I had this information on my computer from a book on fiqh, insha Allah that will help to clarify the situation about tattooing a little:

[b]The grounds for the prohibition of tattooing:
There is a difference of opinion among the scholars as to the grounds for prohibiting tattooing.

1. Deception:
Some said it is prohibited as it is a form of deception. Imâm al-Qurtubî reported that some scholars said: “It entails deception, as Ibn Mas‘ûd said: ‘Allâh has cursed the women who tattoo and the women who have themselves tattooed…and who make spaces between their teeth for beauty.’”

2. Changing the creation of Allâh:
The majority of scholars said that it is prohibited as it entails changing the creation of Allâh Almighty by adding something permanent to the body through pricking it with needles and torturing it for no need or necessity. Their evidence was the following:

a. What is reported by Allâh Almighty in His Book was that Shaytan said: “‘Verily, I will mislead them, and surely, I will arouse in them false desires; and certainly, I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and indeed I will order them to change the nature created by Allâh.’ And whoever takes Shaytân as protector instead of Allâh, has surely suffered a manifest loss.” (4:119)
What is meant by Allâh’s words: “…to change the nature created by Allâh” is tattooing according to Ibn Mas‘ûd and Al-Hasan Al-Basrî. So one of the grounds for prohibiting tattooing is changing the creation of Allâh.

b. The previously mentioned Hadîth of Ibn Mas‘ûd: “Allâh has cursed the women who tattoo and the women who have themselves tattooed…the women who make spaces between their teeth for beauty, such ladies change what Allâh has created.”
In the narration reported by Imâm Ahmad on the authority of Ibn Mas‘ûd he said: “I heard the Messenger of Allâh (peace be upon him) curse the woman who pluck hair from their faces, who make spaces between their teeth for beauty, and the women who have themselves tattooed, such ladies change what Allâh has created.” This Hadîth has referred to the grounds for prohibiting such acts. The chosen opinion is that of the majority of scholars as the Hadîth clearly states the reason for prohibition (changing the creation of Allâh).

The difference between tattooing, dying the hands and feet with Henna, and using Kohl:
Based on the fact that the grounds for prohibiting tattooing is due to it changing the creation of Allâh with something that is permanent, then changing the creation with that which is not permanent, is not prohibited. Therefore, using Kohl to beautify eyes, dying hands and feet with Henna and Katm, using blusher on the cheeks, and using beauty aids in general is permitted. Imâm Al-Shawkânî said: “The prohibition is only pertinent to permanent changes. As for those changes that are not permanent, such as Kohl, Henna and Katm, they were considered permissible by Imâm Mâlik and other scholars.”

[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by bratkota:
do you remember a few years back men use to give there wives tatoos on there faces? sometimes you can still them in upper egypt and other middle east countries.. well thats haram also.. but my question is why was that accepted? and now its not?

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You still see a tattooed cirle on guys on the forehead which means they are very religious. They would never admit that, rather the explanation is that mark comes from all the praying to God.

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:
You still see a tattooed cirle on guys on the forehead which means they are very religious. They would never admit that, rather the explanation is that mark comes from all the praying to God.

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i don't know what you are referring to, the zbeeba? you know that black thing on guys forheads. thats not a tatoo, men just get it from prostrating during the prayer. or are you talking about something else?

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Originally posted by 7aya:

i don't know what you are referring to, the zbeeba? you know that black thing on guys forheads. thats not a tatoo, men just get it from prostrating during the prayer. or are you talking about something else?

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That was my comment. How long does someone has to be in the position to get a little circle like that? And I wonder why not more area of the forehead would be marked?

Simply because it is tattooed.

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:
That was my comment. How long does someone has to be in the position to get a little circle like that? And I wonder why not more area of the forehead would be marked?

Simply because it is tattooed.

[This message has been edited by Tigerlily (edited 08 September 2005).]

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Originally posted by 7aya:
as i said its a mark from the prostrating. where did you get the idea that its a tatoo? and that they are afraid to admit it? admit what? you shouldn't say something like that unless you are sure.
my dad has it, and so does my uncle, so do many collegues of mine at work, its from praying.
and yes copts tatoo there wrists, and as i said its haram in islam i dont know about christianity.

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7aya, didn't you ever wonder why Egyptian Muslim women don't have that sign from praying too? Isn't it kind of strange that it seems to be gender related?

And logically does it mean that these women don't pray that often and don't have such a close bond to God?

Good question in my opinion.

By the way the bible also forbids tattooing. But the Copts in Egypt don't want to blend in with the majority of Muslims and proudly show of their own believes.

quote:

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Originally posted by 7aya:
as i said its a mark from the prostrating. where did you get the idea that its a tatoo? and that they are afraid to admit it? admit what? you shouldn't say something like that unless you are sure.
my dad has it, and so does my uncle, so do many collegues of mine at work, its from praying.
and yes copts tatoo there wrists, and as i said its haram in islam i dont know about christianity.

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Its a well known fact that take a nice object like steel wool, rub it into your forhead and take some shoe polish rub it into the forehead and presto 25,000 extra prayers rubbed into your forehead.

Henna would work the same way.

Just a thought.

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:

7aya, didn't you ever wonder why Egyptian Muslim women don't have that sign from praying too? Isn't it kind of strange that it seems to be gender related?

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Yeah I noticed that too, I think most Egyptian women consider the veil enough. Besides it detracts from the ghostly white look they try to achieve.

Egypt-talk.com had a very violent mean thread on this:
http://egypttalk.net/cgi-local/ikonboard.cgi?s=d0b3345d218c84cab6da95ae24c76622;act=ST;f=9;t=10245;hl=prayer
http://egypttalk.net/cgi-local/ikonboard.cgi?s=d0b3345d218c84cab6da95ae24c76622;act=ST;f=1;t=10251;hl=prayer

Why don't women get it?

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Originally posted by 7aya:
as i said its a mark from the prostrating. where did you get the idea that its a tatoo? and that they are afraid to admit it? admit what? you shouldn't say something like that unless you are sure.
my dad has it, and so does my uncle, so do many collegues of mine at work, its from praying.
and yes copts tatoo there wrists, and as i said its haram in islam i dont know about christianity.

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
I asked this question of Pendarth --- I saw men in Egypt with the darkened circle on their foreheads from praying.....

Why don't women get it?

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Vanity, women don't want a dark mark on them. and Men want to show how pious they are.

I posted the *same* question before I realized you already asked...

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:

7aya, didn't you ever wonder why Egyptian Muslim women don't have that sign from praying too? Isn't it kind of strange that it seems to be gender related?

And logically does it mean that these women don't pray that often and don't have such a close bond to God?

Good question in my opinion.

By the way the bible also forbids tattooing. But the Copts in Egypt don't want to blend in with the majority of Muslims and proudly show of their own believes.

[This message has been edited by Tigerlily (edited 08 September 2005).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
I asked this question of Pendarth --- I saw men in Egypt with the darkened circle on their foreheads from praying.....

Why don't women get it?

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Salaam Snoozin,

The prayer mark isn't on the head of every practicing Muslim some people get it and some don't. Those who get it don't wear emama and usualy pray in mosques which can't afford comforting carpets so they get to prostrate on rough haseer which almost happned to my while doing Ramadan night prayers in a mosque which had only haseer, while women tend to pray at home where it's more comfortable plus they do wear hijab so perhaps this helps too.

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Originally posted by sonomod:

Vanity, women don't want a dark mark on them. and Men want to show how pious they are.

Simple!

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Here is a link I found on the Internet discussing this issue. Its quite entertaining.
http://free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3559&highlight=&sid=324dffe04fe40b c764e23d37321acc8e

If you are lighthearted stay away from couple of pictures though!

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Originally posted by 7aya:
plus as i said its a form of self mutilation and you can get diseases like Aids and virus c. as in the case of pamela anderson. you know islam is amazing, sometimes there are certain rules that we dont understand, but as time passes we get our answers

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Originally posted by Morgan:
Everything is haram in islam ...really boring

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:

7aya, didn't you ever wonder why Egyptian Muslim women don't have that sign from praying too? Isn't it kind of strange that it seems to be gender related?

And logically does it mean that these women don't pray that often and don't have such a close bond to God?

Good question in my opinion.

By the way the bible also forbids tattooing. But the Copts in Egypt don't want to blend in with the majority of Muslims and proudly show of their own believes.

[This message has been edited by Tigerlily (edited 08 September 2005).]

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If you look closer you see it usually looks round.

Check out the internet on "third eye" in Islam, Hinduism and Christianity and what it stands for.

Maybe, just maybe the males surrounding you are not telling you all the truth. And I must admit....... they keep it as a wellhidden secret - and I love mystic things.

Enjoy your Friday!

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:
No need to argue, 7aya, we obviously have different opinions about that issue. It might not be tattooed, it might be some kind of branding whatever.

If you look closer you see it usually looks round.

Check out the internet on "third eye" in Islam, Hinduism and Christianity and what it stands for.

Maybe, just maybe the males surrounding you are not telling you all the truth. And I must admit....... they keep it as a wellhidden secret - and I love mystic things.

Enjoy your Friday!

[This message has been edited by Tigerlily (edited 09 September 2005).]

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Originally posted by 7aya:
.... seriously i would know if its a tatoo. unless these men have some secret tatooing society, and go out at midnight to get their forhead, done, and none of the women have discovered this secret for the past 1400 years. i hope you understand now

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Originally posted by Troubles101:

You guys never fail impressing me, after we managed to fool all Egyptian women for centuries about the forhead a couple of khawaga knew the whole thing after a visit to Egypt. I wont underestimate your knowledge about Egypt again Khawagas!

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Originally posted by newcomer:
But didn't you realize that was the purpose of our different coloured eyes...to be able to see things that others can't. Each colour has a different power...but perhaps I've said too much already and given our eternal secret away...you won't tell will you?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:
No need to argue, 7aya, we obviously have different opinions about that issue. It might not be tattooed, it might be some kind of branding whatever.

If you look closer you see it usually looks round.

Check out the internet on "third eye" in Islam, Hinduism and Christianity and what it stands for.

Maybe, just maybe the males surrounding you are not telling you all the truth. And I must admit....... they keep it as a wellhidden secret - and I love mystic things.

Enjoy your Friday!

[This message has been edited by Tigerlily (edited 09 September 2005).]

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honey i told you there is no opinion in this. i've seen it with my own eyes. but
wow it must be the best hidden secret in the world then. and ofcourse you are right and i'm wrong. and my brother, father, males relatvies, collegues, and friends are all liars. and you single handedly unearthed this amazing secret. all the years i thought the zbeeba was from prostrating but apparently this secret society has been going on behind our backs. you know what ill call up my editor, this is a scoop, it could even make it to the cover. i will stun the world with my discovery, you know i might even get a pulitzer for this. i mean i must get a pulitzer for unearthing such a secret. i won't forget to mention you in my acceptance speech though. j

ust joking with you

Thank you in advance for you research i will do the same