The role of woman, her position and status in society, and her nature have been issues of debate and discussion informed by religion, tradition and culture, misogyny, feminism and – many times – downright ignorance and bigotry.
I am a Muslim and Muslims seek guidance from Allah through his book, the Qur'an, and His messenger Mohammed (pbuh). Muslims believe that the word of Allah is supreme and takes precedence over all traditions cultures.
The Muslim Youth Movement in its struggle towards realising its goals of establishing a just order based on the Divine Will and promoting the values and principles of Islam felt that the area of gender needed redressing. We therefore established the Gender Desk.
As the head of the MYM Gender Desk and on the many campaigns we undertake - like getting women to the mosques, struggling for a just Muslim Family Law system or simply insisting that the woman's voice be heard - I am often asked by people who are not Muslim why I do what I do; why struggle for the rights of women -? and particularly Muslim women. What happened in my past that drove me to this?
The answer is simple: we respond to the injunction of the Qur'an to ?enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong?, as we did when faced with the terrible injustices of apartheid and oppression on the basis of race and class.
In discussing the role of women in contemporary society I have divided my talk into three parts:
1. The perceptions of woman within contemporary Muslim societies. 2. The status, position and role of woman in the Qur'an and in early Islam from where we derive our aspirations. 3. Some of the challenges facing us in contemporary society - more specifically, in South Africa.
You might have heard at some time or the other that Islam teaches that women are "inferior" and "unequal" to men. Women are described as weak, inferior, inherently evil (it is the nature of woman to promote fitnah (mischief)), we have deficient intellectual capabilities and are spiritually lacking. Furthermore, these evaluations have been used to claim that women are unsuitable for performing certain tasks, or for functioning in some ways in society.
Thus women are barred from mosques and excluded from other Muslim institutions. The "intermingling of the sexes" is frowned upon on the basis that women create fitnah. The Muslim identity of a woman is restricted and limited to her dress code.
Specific functions and roles have been attributed to each sex; the function of woman is often confined to her reproductive ability. It is known that her primary function is to be mother and wife. And that she would be lacking in her Islamic duty if she in any way did not fulfil this role in accordance with how society defines it.
Since it is the responsibility of males to provide for females, women are liberated from all social, political and economic obligations. They are freed from all these burdens so they can enjoy the joys of housework and child-bearing and caring. And this is regarded as the special status that Islam has accorded woman, thus liberating her from oppression and suppression over 1400 years ago.
Some traditionalists are of the opinion that "according to strict Islamic injunctions, it is not obligatory for a woman to cook food for her husband or children or wash their clothes or even suckle the infants. A woman may refuse to do all these things without this being made ground for legal complaint against her. If she undertakes these duties it is out of sheer grace." Nevertheless, they stress that man and woman's roles are complementary and the most important role the women plays is in the family unit.
The same traditionalists also believe that her primary role is that of a mother and wife and that she needs not venture from the home and the darkest corners of her home are best for her. They also limit her freedom to exercise her will and choice.
It is ironical that all of them claim that Islam liberated women 1400 years ago. They claim that Islam gave women the right to equal education and civil and economic rights, but at the end of their analysis they come to the conclusion that a woman's place is in her husband's home and that she should be obedient to him and the male elite.
How on earth can she enjoy any liberty if she lacks knowledge, is confined to her home and has minimal control over her life.
We need to ask: Are these the teachings of Islam or have they been concocted by some people in order to maintain control over a sector of society so that they alone can benefit optimally. It is our duty as Muslims to refresh people's memories and look to our Glorious Qur'an and our glorious past. Let us look at the status and position and role of women in Qur'an and early Islam.
The fundamental principle of Islam is Tauhid - the unity of the human race under the sovereignty of the One and Only, Universal Divine Allah. Islam's message of peace affirms the equality of all human beings, and rejects all discrimination on the basis of race, class and gender.
Yes, Allah is the Sovereign and we succumb to Him and put aside our preferences, prejudices, and traditions and culture which are secondary to Allah's injunctions.
The Qur'an declares the absolute moral and spiritual equality of men and women.
"For Muslim men and Muslim women, for believing men and believing women, for devout men and devout women, for true men and true women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward." (Sura 33:35)
This passage makes a clear statement about the absolute equality of the human moral condition and identical spiritual and moral obligations placed on all individuals regardless of sex. Incidentally, this is one of the passages that addresses women directly. It is related that the women asked the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) about why the Qur'an addressed only men when women too accepted God and His prophet. This question occasioned the revelation of the Qur'anic verses explicitly addressing women as well as men - a response that unequivocally shows Muhammad's (pbuh) and Allah's readiness to hear women. Thereafter the Qur'an explicitly addressed women a number of times.
I would like to read Sura 3:195 to you:
"And their Lord has accepted of them, and answered them: 'Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, male or female. You are members, one of another: Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain, verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into gardens with rivers flowing beneath. A reward from the presence of Allah, and from His presence is the best of rewards.'"
Allah clearly tells us here that we are members of one and the same human race, and therefore equal to one another.
We read in the Qur'an that taqwa (God-consciousness) is the only distinguishing factor between human beings.
"O humankind! We created you from a single (pair of a) male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other (not that you may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous (or God-conscious) of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)." (Sura 49:13)
And taqwa - "God consciousness" - is definitely not determined by gender!
Another interesting fact about women in the Qur'an is that Allah relates instances when woman received wahy (revelation). Oftentime the assertion is made that there has never been a female prophet. To that I say that there is no conclusive evidence that there did not exist a woman prophet. And yes, women have received wahy. Allah sent a messenger who carried Allah's message to Mary (pbuh):
[/i]"She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: 'I seek refuge in The Most Gracious from you: (come not near) if you are conscious of Allah.' He said: 'No, I am only a messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a holy son.'" (Sura 19:17-19)[/i]
Allah also "spoke" to the mother of Musa: "And We revealed to Musa's mother, saying: 'Give him suck, then when you fear for him, cast him into the river and do not fear nor grieve; surely We will bring him back to you and make him one of the messengers.'" (Sura 28:7).
And, in the Qur'an we read the story of Bilqis, the Queen of Sheba. Most Muslims hold leadership as improper for women. The Qur'an uses no terms to imply that leadership is inappropriate for a woman. On the contrary, the Qur'anic story of Bilqis celebrates both her political and religious practices:
"But the Hoopoe tarried not far: he (came up and) said: 'I have compassed (territory) which you have not compassed, and I have come to you from Sheba with tidings true. I found (there) a woman ruling over them and provided with every requisite; and she has a magnificent throne..." (Sura 27:22-23).
These verses and the verses following them tell us of a wise woman; a woman who recognises the goodness in the Propeht Sulaiman (Solomon) just from his letter to her; a woman who rules her people through consultation; a woman who readily recognises and accepts the Truth when Solomon presents it to her.
What is interesting is that Allah, The Most Wise, has not specified any particular role for all men or all women. The Qur'an does not propose or support a singular role or single definition of a set of roles, exclusively, for each gender across every culture.
This thus allows individuals the freedom to decide on their functions and roles best suited to their contexts. This must, of course, be done by maintaining fairness and equality through mutual consultation, mercy, consideration and compassion between those affected by the decision.
Women do have a special and exclusive function; and that is procreation. The Qur'an elevates this special function in Sura 4 Verse 1:
"O humankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord... reverence Allah, through whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (that bore you)."
Another aspect that engenders the equal worth of individuals is that the Qur'an does not set value for particular deeds between men and women. Note verse 195 in Sura 3:
"Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, male or female. You are members, one of another."
In contemporary society this is not so. Much more value is attached to the work that men do. Domestic work is not less of a good deed than going out of the house to work. I believe that there is space in Islam to actually attach monetary value to domestic work done by wives. Indeed, some classical scholars have stated that women should be paid even for breastfeeding their own children! And if the criteria for valuing any function is monetary value then we should insist that all these functions should also have monetary values attached to them.
History
Let us now take a step back into our history and look at the various roles our sheroes played in the societies they lived in. I admit I will be focusing on and emphasising the active and assertive roles they played. We have been taught well about what is traditionally considered to be pious about our early Muslim sisters. But what about the other roles they played?
Women were actively involved in warfare.
Umm 'Umara was known for her effectiveness with weapons. The Prophet (pbuh) commented that she was better than many men. Umm 'Umara fought in many battles and she lost her hand in one of them.
Umm Hakim single handedly disposed of seven Byzantine soldiers in the battle of Marj al- Saffar.
In one expedition against a Persian seaport the women, led by Azdah bint al-Harith turned their veils into flags, marching in martial array to the battlefield. They were mistaken for fresh reinforcements, which struck fear into the hearts of the enemy, and this contributed - at a critical moment - to the victory of the Muslims.
Religion
Women of the first Muslim community attended the mosque, took part in religious services on feast days, and listened to Muhammad's (pbuh) discourses. They were not just passive listeners and docile followers, but actively participated in discussion and questioned, confronted and challenged.
This practice continued even in 'Umar's time - when he was caliph. It is reported that when 'Umar attempted to limit the dowry in a khutbah in the mosque, a woman challenged his ruling and 'Umar conceded that "the woman is correct and 'Umar is wrong".
Talking about the mighty 'Umar, strong-headed and strong-willed... He never forbade his own wife to attend the mosque because he knew that this was a betrayal of the Prophet's teaching. In fact, he tried some dubious means to discourage her. He once hid in an alley and frightened her to illustrate the danger of women being harassed by the hypocrites while they were going to mosque. He was not successful; his wife continued on her way to the mosque!
Woman participated in political activities.
When Makkah was recaptured by the Muslims (Fath Makkah) many woman came to give their allegiance to Islam. They refused to offer their allegiance to 'Umar and insisted that they wanted to give it to the Prophet (pbuh) himself. The Prophet conceded and this was at a public assembly of men and women.
Women like Asma bint Abu Bakr were active in the workforce. She shared the responsibility of supporting her family with her husband by working away from her home.
Women were given the responsibility of running the affairs of the State. A woman - Shifa bint 'abd Allah - was appointed controller of the market of Madinah by the Prophet. She was reappointed by 'Umar when he became caliph.
The Prophet left it in the hands of his wife Umm Salamah to advise the Muslims to forgo the haj and to rather sign the treaty of Hudaibiyya.
'Aisha, the prophet's wife, was a reporter of many of the Prophet's traditions. She also addressed the congregation at the mosque and led an army in battle.
In the private domain women also exercised their rights.
They enjoyed the freedom of stipulating their demands in their marriage contract. An illustrious example is the story of Sukayna, the great-grand-daughter of the Prophet, daughter of Husayn. In her marriage contract she stipulated that she would not obey her husband and denied her husbands had the right to practise polygamy. She brought a case against one of her husbands who had violated her rule of monogamy. The judge was obliged to hear her case.
Yet when we attempt to assert ourselves as Muslim women we are accused of being influenced by the West, and attempting to cause divisions and putting Muslims and Islam to disrepute.
The renowned author Fatima Mernissi, says in Women and Islam that such a person is "one who misunderstands his own cultural heritage. The vast and inspiring records of Muslim history so brilliantly completed for us by scholars such as Ibn Hisham, Ibn Hajar, Ibn Sa'ad and Tabari speak to the contrary.
"We Muslim women can walk into the modern world with pride, knowing that the quest for dignity, democracy, and human rights, for full participation in the political and social affairs of our country , stems from no imported Western values, but is a true part of Muslim tradition.
"Women fled aristocratic tribal Mecca by the thousands to enter Medina, the Prophet's city in the 7th century, because Islam promised equality and dignity for all, for men and women, masters and servants. Every woman who came to Medina when the Prophet was the political leader of the Muslims could gain access to full citizenship, the status of sahabi, companion of the Prophet. Muslims can take pride that in their language they have the feminine of that word, sahabiyat, women who enjoyed the right to enter into the councils of the Muslim umma, to speak freely to its Prophet-leader, to dispute with men, to fight for their happiness, and to be involved in the management of military and political affairs. The evidence is there in the works of religious? history, in the biographical details of sahabiyyat by the thousands who built Muslim society side by side with their male counterparts."
quote:Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven: well if you do a sin or sumthing wrong, of course u would just like men
Are you living in complete denial, Kamal? Don't you read up on things? Don't you have any knowledge about history or events of the presents? Your posts show an amazing ignorance.
The priests who ordered the burning of "witches" often used the same arguments as those who order women to be stoned. Don't you find it strange that in many cases of stoning the woman is accused of fornication or adultery whereas the man gets out without a punishment? How can that be – if so many women are committing sins there surely must be men around they committed those "sins" with, no?
Have you ever looked into some cases and the reasoning behind it?
How come that back then and now the majority of people getting punished / burned / stoned are women? You're trying to take the easy way out, Kamal, so you don't have to think about injustice committed in this day and time. But the picture you're trying to paint – of women in Muslim countries being liberated and treated justly versus the picture of European women being burned as witches and is a very distorted one.
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven: this article in contracdicatorty...
what you highlighted in bold, she later condradicts....
I don't see any contradictions in the article. Could you please quote the parts you find contradictory and explain why. Thanks.
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven: [qb] well if you do a sin or sumthing wrong, of course u would just like men
Are you living in complete denial, Kamal? Don't you read up on things? Don't you have any knowledge about history or events of the presents? Your posts show an amazing ignorance.
i meant in mianily in sharia...
Don't you read up on things? written by whom? imagine Fran was a mainstream jounrnilist....unfortunaly, just cos his artivle is printed in some national paper, pple tend to beleive every word...
quote: We have been taught well about what is traditionally considered to be pious about our early Muslim sisters.
Women were actively involved in warfare.
The Prophet (pbuh) commented that she was better than many men.
In one expedition against a Persian seaport the women, led by Azdah bint al-Harith......at a critical moment - to the victory of the Muslims
Women of the first Muslim community attended the mosque, took part in religious services .....but actively participated in discussion and questioned, confronted and challenged.
a woman challenged his ruling and 'Umar conceded that "the woman is correct and 'Umar is wrong".
Woman participated in political activities
ur welcome:)
Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dalia: Most Muslims hold leadership as improper for women. The Qur'an uses no terms to imply that leadership is inappropriate for a woman.
Prior to Islam, in non-Arab countries, such as in Persia, women had more rights than in Arab countries. In fact in Iran women could become Queens and rulers of the country. Here is what Muhammad thought of that:
‘When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."’Posts: 524 | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven: again proof that islam brang liberation to women, that modernized ancient times... in turn modernizing europe..
Does Islam contain within itself the keys to liberate women within *contemporary* Islamic societies? There are numerous ahadith that reflect poorly on women, including one in which Muhammad declares that most of hell’s population is female and that women are deficient in intelligence and piety.
Instead of adressing this point you attempt to deflect attention to the Middle ages of Europe which is allegedly worse. But there is no analogy to Quran's misogynic teachings in the Christian Bible, and even if there were, it is off the point. The question is whether Islam, not the Dark Ages of Europe, liberates women. Muslims who care for the equality of dignity and human rights of women must acknowledge the existence of the material from the Quran and Sunnah and find some way to mitigate their destructive force among Muslims.
Posts: 524 | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dalia: The Qur'an declares the absolute moral and spiritual equality of men and women.
"For Muslim men and Muslim women, for believing men and believing women, for devout men and devout women, for true men and true women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward." (Sura 33:35)
Men and women are *not* treated equally even after their death. In fact, according to Muhammad few women ever make it to Paradise . The majority of them end up in Hell.
Men are promised many virgins after they die. What do women get? They have to maintain their “modesty” even after their death.
Posts: 524 | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dalia: Another interesting fact about women in the Qur'an is that Allah relates instances when woman received wahy (revelation). Oftentime the assertion is made that there has never been a female prophet. To that I say that there is no conclusive evidence that there did not exist a woman prophet. And yes, women have received wahy.
So?
Again this just goes to show the higher status of women PRIOR to Islam. During the time of Muhammad a woman claimed to be a prophetess and gained many following. There is also the example of Asma bt. Marwan, the Jewess poetess of Medina who at the behest of Muhammad was assassinated for composing inflammatory poetries against him. The fact that Muhammad feared Asma to the extent that he thought she is endangering his career by merely writing poetries and therefore assassinated her is yet another proof that in the pre Islamic culture of Arabia, the Arabs respected their women. Women were not dismissed as imbeciles or deficient in intelligence as later they came to be known, but rather were leaders of thoughts and notable members of the society. However, after Islam, when Muslims started to put into practice their prophet’s teachings, they found there was no room for women anywhere and were relegated to second class citizens.
quote:Originally posted by Dalia: But what about the other roles they played?
Women were actively involved in warfare.
Umm 'Umara was known for her effectiveness with weapons. The Prophet (pbuh) commented that she was better than many men. Umm 'Umara fought in many battles and she lost her hand in one of them.
No that was a pagan custom. You should read the biography of your prophet again. You will notice that the pagans used to take their wives to the battlefield. In the battle of Uhud it was Hind, the wife of Abu Sofyan, who was roaring like a lioness and encouraging the men to march forward. In those days women used to accompany their husbands to the battle to provide logistics for them and to nurse them if they were wounded. Muhammad did what other Arabs did. That was before Muslims started putting into practice their prophet’s teachings. Now seriously: how does a Muslim woman fight wrapped in her burqa? That is something worth seeing.
Muhammad discouraged women from going out of their home without a male kin. In fact he said that it is better for them to pray in the privacy of their home than pray in the mosque. (is that a sign of their equality and liberation=?)
-He sanctioned polygyny and allowed men to marry four wives and as many slave girls as they please. Some scholars believe that this verse does not limit the number of wives but rather the verse should be understood as a man can marry any number of wives, two, three, four, etc. (Guess who is to judge such subjective criterion as "love equally, treat equally".. It is of course left to the judgment of the husband)
Therefore men are allowed to lust after other women when they are married but:
“The virtuous wife, [is one who] if her husband bids her, she obeys him; if he looks at her, she pleases him; if he gives her an oath; she fulfils it, and if he is absent from her, she guards herself and his property."
Isn’t this how one would describe a good dog?
Now let us see what other virtues a good woman must have:
"The best women are those who have the prettiest faces and the cheapest dowry." (is this how Islam liberates women ?)
And here is one more quality of a good wife
"The good wife is out of this world because she helps free you to concentrate on the life to come. She does that by doing her house duties (instead of the husband having to do them), and by satisfying the husband sexually so protecting him from sexual temptation." Posts: 524 | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Fran: The fact that Muhammad feared Asma to the extent that he thought she is endangering his career by merely writing poetries and therefore assassinated her is yet another proof that in the pre Islamic culture of Arabia, the Arabs respected their women.
Indeed. Women were respected so much, they were burried alive, at birth. Do not confuse rotten Arab culture with Islam. The beef you obviously have with Islam is neither new nor are your arguments sound or original. Better men and women have argued your position more eloquently and still their protests were without any merit. Keep using fabricated traditions falsely attributed to the prophet and you will only confuse yourself. The freedom and individuality that women "enjoy" outside of Islam is one of the greatest rackets perpertrated on humanity. If you want to debate this in a scholarly fashion without the cheap mud slinging you habitually engage in, I shall indulge you. If all you have are weak, unsubstantiated accusations, smoke and mirrors, then be gone for you're not even worthy of the bandwidth or my time.
Posts: 216 | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
''Indeed. Women were respected so much, they were burried alive, at birth.''
Perhaps some ignorant people killed their newborn daughters, but that could not have been a common practice or Muhammad could not find 20 women to sleep with. Infanticide is just against human nature. After all, Arabs were also humans. They must have had the same kind of parental instincts that we have. Even animals have parental instinct. Yes exceptions always occur. Even today female infanticide is practiced in China and in India. But it is an abhorrent practice frowned by the society and punished by the law. The cases are extremely rare. The pre-Islamic Arabia could not have been different. What Muhammad said was commonsense and agreed by everyone. One does not have to become a prophet to see that such an animalistic act is wrong. Every decent human being disliked it- Muhammad was not the only Arab that did not like it. Let me make an example. We read in the news that some men kill their wives. How common is this practice? It is extremely rare. But suppose I declare myself a prophet and among other things prohibit wife killing. Not a big deal, everybody knows wife killing is bad. A thousand years from now my zealot followers claim that in Pre-Sinaic period of ignorance people practiced wife killing and his holiness Fran (pbuh) abolished this repugnant practice. How ludicrous does it sound to you? Well, it is no more ludicrous than the claim of the Muslims that Muhammad abolished female infanticide.
''Do not confuse rotten Arab culture with Islam.''
Do you have any proof to this claim? No you don’t. You just repeat the same lies that you heard and accepted them. But I have demonstrated that Women in Arabia had more rights before Islam that the misogynist Muhammad took away. Here is the proof.
''Keep using fabricated traditions falsely attributed to the prophet and you will only confuse yourself.''
You deny all these because they do not validate your fantasies about Muhammad. How can you prove to me that Muhammad did not say all this. Why should we reject the historians of Islam and accept your fantasies? You want us to throw out the authentic books of hadith and history because you don't find them to your liking but you expect us to believe in your words 1400 years later? Can you demonstrate that these hadith are unauthentic?
Posts: 524 | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
The beef I have with Islam is not without reason. The reason I don't like this cult is because it induces normal humans to hate other humans. It tells its brainwashed followers that the unbelievers are najis (impure, filthy) and they should not take them as friends but rather fight with them, kill them and force them into conversion. This is sick and if you cannot see it is sick is because your brain is already damaged. Think if the Christians had such law against the Muslims. What would you say then? No, in Christian countries Muslims have all the freedom that the Christians have but in no Islamic country they grant the same freedom to the minorities.
I like pleasures of life. I like happiness, peace, joy, laughter and I want to share these pleasures with all human beings. But I see poor Muslims have nothing but misery and pain. They feel guilty to be happy, they shun laughter and praise weeping. While all other nations have celebrations to make themselves happy, Muslims have memorials to make themselves sad. (This is especially true in the case of the Shiits). By depriving people from happiness and and tolling their their daily life with burdens of heavy religious rituals Muhammad wanted to control his followers. This is the way all cult leaders operate. I want to see people liberated from the bondage of Islam so they can enjoy life. So women can walk with the clothes that they like and do not suffocate themselves in heavy veils during the hot summers. So if a boy and a girl go to see a movie together they are not harassed, beaten and mistreated. So if a woman is raped she does not have to die in order to restore the honor of her family. So if man desired to drink a can of cold beer to quench his thirst no one could to stop him and beat him. So if an adult man and a woman want to live together without reading an stupid Arabic verse they are not stoned to death.
I want to make sure the private lives are private and state or society do not have the right to tell anyone how to dress, how to live, what to eat, and how to shave. I want all these basic human rights for Muslims. The right to think, and say out loud his thinking without fear.
Posts: 524 | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Automatic For The People: What do you believe the true path to be? No speeches please, just your own belief of what one's relationship with God means, assuming you believe in God.
who am i to claim to know what the *true* path is? and is there really only one true path and why should we think so? actually, i can not think of a more righteous path than the "golden principle" agreed upon by all religions and human concepts.. i think this set of basic rules that govern people's lives and deter them from harming each other is what you really need to establish a solid relationship with god, they are IMO what really matters to god, or at least they matter more than how women dress. but i can tell for sure that the right path is not a one which condemns others to hell because they are different or because they did not follow it, even if they were probably more virtuous or did more good to mankind than those who followed!
Posts: 956 | From: nowhere | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven: We have been taught well about what is traditionally considered to be pious about our early Muslim sisters.
Women were actively involved in warfare.
The Prophet (pbuh) commented that she was better than many men.
In one expedition against a Persian seaport the women, led by Azdah bint al-Harith......at a critical moment - to the victory of the Muslims
Women of the first Muslim community attended the mosque, took part in religious services .....but actively participated in discussion and questioned, confronted and challenged.
a woman challenged his ruling and 'Umar conceded that "the woman is correct and 'Umar is wrong".
Woman participated in political activities
What do you find contradictory about this?
I think you did not understand the point the article tried to make.
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ki$$7eaven: written by whom? imagine Fran was a mainstream jounrnilist....unfortunaly, just cos his artivle is printed in some national paper, pple tend to beleive every word...
Can you please drop your constant suggestions that ANY information anyone is referring to must be biased or wrong and that we're all a bunch of brainless lemmings believing everything while you're the only one around who sees things and has a critical mind.
Frankly – I don't care what someone like Fran would write as a journalist; I have a brain to distinguish which information I believe or not; I have been growing up learning that it's very important to question your sources and read between the lines, I have always been of the opinion that the media in general is to be viewed critically and with an alert mind. And lastly – I have many friends who are journalists, so I know what's going on behind the scenes, but I also know that there are many courageous and honest journalists out there.
What I was pointing out was that you seem to lack some basic knowledge on historical and present events or at least you fail to be able to make a connection. If you're pointing out how terribly women were tortured and killed during certain times of European history you cannot overlook that women are still treated in a similar way in some parts of the world. But instead of trying to address this argument you chose to distract by reverting to your favourite subject ...
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic