posted
What is the relationship between : -The Egyptian Government -Corruption in Egypt as whole (in and out of government) -Living conditions in Egypt.
For example, let us take the garbage on the streets. Is that the result of failure of the government to clean up or is it the responsibility of the citizens to keep their streets clean knowing that the government is not going to do it for them?
Posts: 164 | Registered: Apr 2006
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i dont remember where I read this......... somwhere here.......... but it made sense
people throwing garbage in the strees is an unpatriotic act .......... they hate the country so they dont care......... also the government doesnt care to clean up
Hope i added a valid point
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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Why are there government employees to pick up the trash in well-to-do neighborhoods and not the impoverished neighborhoods?
Why are the interior of lower income homes spotless while the streets are basically filled with rubbish? Ever notice how those lower income neighborhoods the men hanging out in the streets while the women are indoors? What does that say about gender responsibility?
And why is it well-to-do neighborhoods have lower income maids cleaning those homes, yet the lower income is consider to be less clean than a wealthier sort that doesn't have to pick up after themselves?
I mean seriously I see just as many wealthy Egyptians littering as I see impoverished Egyptians littering.
Yet its always the poor who pick up the trash!
P.S. in my state people can adopt a highway, a stretch of street or a portion of a park to pick up the litter on a regular basis. I have taken part in this program and somehow a multi-millionaire CEO is out there picking up trash just as long as anyone else.
P.S. Public restitution in the USA is doled out to everyone. Occasionally even the wealthy offenders are ordered to pick up trash or cleanout a abandoned lot. Its not like the journalists/media are called in, but even the wealthy do public restitution like anyone else. Why isn't the same done in Egypt?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT: people throwing garbage in the strees is an unpatriotic act .......... they hate the country so they dont care.........
What's the reason for their hate?
What other examples are there that fall into that category of un-patriotic behavior? Is the bad driving out of lack patriotism?
Are you saying that if the government starts to care so will the people?
Posts: 164 | Registered: Apr 2006
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One must evaluate the government system of political appointments as well.
For one, the governor of each state is appointed and not elected. Most of the time the governor is not from that state even, likely from Cairo with no family history in that state. Plus the governor is a retired military officer such as a general or a major. Not a politician, nor does he have any form of civil service to the people outside of policing the people.
Then there is the system of ministries. Only two main bodies of these ministries. So its a highly centralized system with no checks and balances with the military overseeing most of the governments functions.
Plus its still in a very socialist condition in regards to the presidency. No term limits and until recently there wasn't even a glimmer of a chance for a political party to nominate a candidate. The only vote choice was "nay" or "yay" for one candidate.
Much of the natural resorces are managed by a system dictated by two influences:
Ottoman USAid
and the only way to rejuvenate the economy is to privatize and sell what operating industries still employing people to outsiders?
I mean Egypt has to chose. Either rip out the socialism in the governments bureacracy to match the privatizing of its national industries or to reinvest in a system of Socialism through and through in its government bureacracy and its economy.
In addition one must realize that the system that keeps Mubarak in power, assassinated Sadat and very much killed Nassar young. It benefits the a very large amount of people in the government whose positions were not privatized, if those very same people had to show efficiency and appitude for their position then they be less likely to back the system that puts Pharoahs in power.
Unfortunately the political system in Egypt is much like the Hydra. Cut off one head and it grows two more. You must stab the beast in the heart and cut that heart out.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People:
quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT: people throwing garbage in the strees is an unpatriotic act .......... they hate the country so they dont care.........
What's the reason for their hate?
What other examples are there that fall into that category of un-patriotic behavior? Is the bad driving out of lack patriotism?
Are you saying that if the government starts to care so will the people?
Yes, a long time ago Egyptians used to be very patriotic. It was considered unpatriotic to leave the country. Remember the old times? Remember our classic movies & songs? People loved this country & were willing to do anything for it. Remember Salah Gahine?
Now, this is not the case............ everybody wants to get out
Definately..... if the government cares the people will care.
But the government cares about its self only.... they take our money & do nothing in return......... so why should we care???!!!
I think the driving problem is a cause & not a symptom......... it is a result.......... it shows how people are boiling up & becoming intolerant........ & definately it's contagious.
It's getting scary, I have never seen the Egyptians who are supposed to be kind, getting so angry & vicious & self absorbed
Talking about self absorbed........ everybody & every home has endless loads of problems....... & everybody thinks he's tonly one with problems while the rest of the people are just whinning. so consequently people stopped caring & being compassionate with each other.
I still need to think of more examples of unatriotic acts..... or dig out a good article with some facts
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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Interesting to see that egyptians also moan about the rubbish and driving............I was led to believe by egyptians here that that act alone was unpatriotic............ Posts: 1500 | Registered: Dec 2005
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I also think that throwing garbage & bad driving is an act of mutiny........ passive aggression towards the governement especially Mubarak.
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha: What I don't understand.....
Why are there government employees to pick up the trash in well-to-do neighborhoods and not the impoverished neighborhoods?
They do that in the areas where mubarak lives & where he recieves guests from abroad........ And that's certainly is not in Bulac or Shubra
quote: And why is it well-to-do neighborhoods have lower income maids cleaning those homes, yet the lower income is consider to be less clean than a wealthier sort that doesn't have to pick up after themselves?
The majority of people in Egypt are working class.......... they are uneducated so they are suited to serve only, such as drivers, servants, office boys........ etc,
It is cheap in Egypt So if it's affordable to you in Europe or the US you'd certainly not hesitate to have a servant & a driver & all that.
Abusing maids should NOT be generalized
quote: P.S. in my state people can adopt a highway, a stretch of street or a portion of a park to pick up the litter on a regular basis. I have taken part in this program and somehow a multi-millionaire CEO is out there picking up trash just as long as anyone else.
P.S. Public restitution in the USA is doled out to everyone. Occasionally even the wealthy offenders are ordered to pick up trash or cleanout a abandoned lot. Its not like the journalists/media are called in, but even the wealthy do public restitution like anyone else. Why isn't the same done in Egypt?
Yes I have seen it happen in Europe & it's a good idea but I have no idea exactly why we dont do it
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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There are many reasons for throwing the garbage, bad driving and corruption.
government and egyptians are sharing the responsibility, egyptians feels that law and order only for the poor and weak people cause they see by their own eyes police officers getting paid by whoever able to pay, employees at government authorities getting paid too (Rashwa) i mean , so everyone start to tell him self why the heal i care ? am i gonna fix the world ? Also if the heads of the country are bad and corrupted , how can the people be patriotic ?
garbage everywhere why ? because government don't pay to the garbage company, why ? because people stopped to pay , why ? cause the government decide to put the cost of garbage collection on electricity bill without any studies for society or for the law if that ok or not, they just decide that's it ,,,, so garbage cost in your bill depends on your electricity usage so the jewllery store who has no garbage at all paid 10 times more than the chicken store next door who has a lot of garbage,,,, from this point people start to feel that heads of goverment are just punch of stupids lazy asses who just decide and decide without studying anything ..... also a lawyer was able to get a report from the highest court in egypt that collecting garbage cost by this way is illegal ..... but even before that people stopped to pay cause is not fair....
Egypt won't get better before we get a patriotic strong educated president and high qualified government with no corruption who are able to raise the national income and use every simple thing we have to raise that income....... leadership who is able to change and lead the people and teach them good behaviours ...
Posts: 238 | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha: What I don't understand.....
Why are there government employees to pick up the trash in well-to-do neighborhoods and not the impoverished neighborhoods?
They do that in the areas where mubarak lives & where he recieves guests from abroad........ And that's certainly is not in Bulac or Shubra
quote: And why is it well-to-do neighborhoods have lower income maids cleaning those homes, yet the lower income is consider to be less clean than a wealthier sort that doesn't have to pick up after themselves?
The majority of people in Egypt are working class.......... they are uneducated so they are suited to serve only, such as drivers, servants, office boys........ etc,
It is cheap in Egypt So if it's affordable to you in Europe or the US you'd certainly not hesitate to have a servant & a driver & all that.
Abusing maids should NOT be generalized
quote: P.S. in my state people can adopt a highway, a stretch of street or a portion of a park to pick up the litter on a regular basis. I have taken part in this program and somehow a multi-millionaire CEO is out there picking up trash just as long as anyone else.
P.S. Public restitution in the USA is doled out to everyone. Occasionally even the wealthy offenders are ordered to pick up trash or cleanout a abandoned lot. Its not like the journalists/media are called in, but even the wealthy do public restitution like anyone else. Why isn't the same done in Egypt?
Yes I have seen it happen in Europe & it's a good idea but I have no idea exactly why we dont do it
Mubarak is in Helipolis, everyone knows that.
I said nothing about abusing maids.
I know alot of people who live in 2 million dollar homes and are trust fund recieptants. An actual trust funder is a teacher and his wife is an engineer. They would never hire help because the 2 million dollar home is enough of a negative reinforcement on their kids. The house is in the family and he is the last one left in the state, so he must occupy it.
And there are loads of future trust fund kids right now (okay 5 hours from now )on their lawnmowers sucking up 4 acres of leaves on their estates. They wouldn't moan about it, they just slipped in a Guns-n-Roses CD-ROM in their headset and get it done. (I remember this from when I was a kid, some young dude offered to do my lawn with his "cool" mower in exchange for a date )
My family is middle class in the USA, my in-laws are upper Middle class in Egypt. But who has hired help to clean their home?
Okay.......
Its not that hiring someone to clean your home, watch your kids, do your cooking, run your errands, and wash the car is cheap. Its because the rich and upper middle class wouldn't be caught dead doing these chores in Egypt.
I clearly remember going to the hardware store when I was a kid and watching a 60 some year old man ask for the fuses from the backroom. He had them speciality ordered to be kept in the store because he would lose them at home. His old house had been in the family for years and had all sorts of "unique" hardware that only he knew how to fix or replace. His last name was Cargil, and he prefered to do this himself. When my mom took care of his mother's elder care in hospice he gave her her first hibiscus. These had been in his family's garden for 70 years and he cultivated them himself. I remember this guys wife would bake the best bundt cake for our church's bake sale.
I don't think you could find an old couple like that in Heliopolis.
Here in the midwest my Dad grow up with one of the Du***t boys. They taught vacation bible school together, they cleaned the gutters on the family 'estate' in Bayfield, WI.
Later on to prep for shareholders meetings and explain why he is a trust fund recieptent, he would practice his speech; "I put the calvin kliens on today because they don't smell like my work. I remove {filth} from people's pipes for a living. I also manage a philanthropic fund for the family in my spare time and between divorces" After egineering school he set up a "plumbing" company which he sold to roter rooter before he retired. He was a busy guy, he was a drunk, he proudly smell of sh*t, the brown kind and the green kind.
Find me on Egyptian man who smells of sh*t, the brown and green kind.
Otherwise the impression I have of the wealthy in Egypt won't change.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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There needs to be an atitude adjustment in the upper ranks of society before any kind of change on a wide scale could take place.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by tootifrooti: Interesting to see that egyptians also moan about the rubbish and driving............I was led to believe by egyptians here that that act alone was unpatriotic............
I only remember your post about the air conditioning and it was something I would've written. It was all very true and happens everyday.
Posts: 164 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by tootifrooti: Interesting to see that egyptians also moan about the rubbish and driving............I was led to believe by egyptians here that that act alone was unpatriotic............
Again, for those who never learn, WE can moan about our country, but guests
(excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, r e s i d e n t s)
have to express their opinions politely or else shut up.
But I know I am talking to a corpse.
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha: Mubarak is in Helipolis, everyone knows that.
Mubarak is hardly ever home. He spends the summer in Alexandria and the winter in Sharm with all the Ministers.
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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We know that they don't care about the country or the average Egyptian but does that mean that they're responsible for everything that's gone wrong? Does that mean that the only way out is to get a new government?
What are the complaints of the average Egyptian family? In details, if anyone knows.
I mean they wake up in the morning and then what happens? Is it that they don't have money to eat, go to school or is it the lack of good transportation or what?
Posts: 164 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by tootifrooti: Interesting to see that egyptians also moan about the rubbish and driving............I was led to believe by egyptians here that that act alone was unpatriotic............
Again, for those who never learn, WE can moan about our country, but guests
(excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, r e s i d e n t s)
have to express their opinions politely or else shut up.
But I know I am talking to a corpse.
No actually she has every right to complain and my understanding is that she is not a guest. I don't see her complaints to be in any way malevolent but more out of shock and disbelief.
Posts: 164 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People: I don't want to focus on the garbage or driving problems but the intention here is to understand the source of the problems.
We know that they don't care about the country or the average Egyptian but does that mean that they're responsible for everything that's gone wrong? Does that mean that the only way out is to get a new government?
What are the complaints of the average Egyptian family? In details, if anyone knows.
I mean they wake up in the morning and then what happens? Is it that they don't have money to eat, go to school or is it the lack of good transportation or what?
The internet is the way to expose this, there will be more videos to come.
Now I can clearly remember my ex slapping around his subordinates in this fashion. They were illegal aliens, overstaying their work visas so they felt compelled to put up with the abuse.
But in their own country?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha: Mubarak is in Helipolis, everyone knows that.
Mubarak is hardly ever home. He spends the summer in Alexandria and the winter in Sharm with all the Ministers.
Like the khedives before him. Somehow its easier to have adaquate security in a 4 star resort setting.
Yet like the House of Saud, I think Mubarak is way to close to the Bushs'.
Isn't the Mubarak compound on the same cul-de-sac where George Bush senior spends 2 months a year?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People: No actually she has every right to complain and my understanding is that she is not a guest. I don't see her complaints to be in any way malevolent but more out of shock and disbelief.
Fair enough.
And I find her rude and obnoxious and feeling superior to Egyptians for no apparent reason.
Mashi ya bashah?
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People: No actually she has every right to complain and my understanding is that she is not a guest. I don't see her complaints to be in any way malevolent but more out of shock and disbelief.
Fair enough.
And I find her rude and obnoxious and feeling superior to Egyptians for no apparent reason.
Mashi ya bashah?
Mashi fein yaani, ana a3id hena wi mish ray7 fi 7etah Posts: 164 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People: I don't want to focus on the garbage or driving problems but the intention here is to understand the source of the problems.
We know that they don't care about the country or the average Egyptian but does that mean that they're responsible for everything that's gone wrong? Does that mean that the only way out is to get a new government?
What are the complaints of the average Egyptian family? In details, if anyone knows.
I mean they wake up in the morning and then what happens? Is it that they don't have money to eat, go to school or is it the lack of good transportation or what?
The internet is the way to expose this, there will be more videos to come.
Now I can clearly remember my ex slapping around his subordinates in this fashion. They were illegal aliens, overstaying their work visas so they felt compelled to put up with the abuse.
But in their own country?
Expose what? Every Egyptian knows this happens al the time! The only thing new is the video.
Posts: 164 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Auto thank you I think it is clear who is the rude and obnoxious one on this thread........ 99% of your posts are abusive, insulting, rude, degrading,and the funny thing is you have never met me!!, or most of the people here. Of course you wont believe me but take a look at all your posts over the last month........I have!
Posts: 1500 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People:
quote:Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha:
quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People: I don't want to focus on the garbage or driving problems but the intention here is to understand the source of the problems.
We know that they don't care about the country or the average Egyptian but does that mean that they're responsible for everything that's gone wrong? Does that mean that the only way out is to get a new government?
What are the complaints of the average Egyptian family? In details, if anyone knows.
I mean they wake up in the morning and then what happens? Is it that they don't have money to eat, go to school or is it the lack of good transportation or what?
The internet is the way to expose this, there will be more videos to come.
Now I can clearly remember my ex slapping around his subordinates in this fashion. They were illegal aliens, overstaying their work visas so they felt compelled to put up with the abuse.
But in their own country?
Expose what? Every Egyptian knows this happens al the time! The only thing new is the video.
Every Egyptian knows this. In addition to every Egyptian knows that anyone with any form of power over someone else will do the same as the police officer on a regular basis.
But for the uninitiated "outsiders" they can't imagine that a nation which pines for peace in the middle east has this type of subjugation.
It happens on every level of Egyptian society and not just by the government.
Its a image a video clip they can put next to this:
I mean to put an end to this type of humiliation and abuse of power does Egypt need to stop being Egyptian?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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I think it is clear who is the rude and obnoxious one on this thread........ 99% of your posts are abusive, insulting, rude, degrading,and the funny thing is you have never met me!!, or most of the people here. Of course you wont believe me but take a look at all your posts over the last month........I have!
Funny because you insist that you don't read my posts and ask everyone to ignore them.
So which way is it? You read all my posts or you don't read any of my posts?
You are obsessed by me and I am having fun with it.
The big L is only getting bigger.
And oh yeah Auto for president big time ya sett SamakShaweesh.
quote:Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha: Mubarak is in Helipolis, everyone knows that.
Dont forget that Heliopolis must be spotless clean especially in those areas surrounding the residence of Mubarak & Gamal in Oruba, Salah Salem & Merghany....... And in the areas surrounding the AIRPORT !!!!!!!
quote: I said nothing about abusing maids.
That was mentioned in another thread & I wanted to add this tiny point here
quote: I know alot of people who live in 2 million dollar homes and are trust fund recieptants. An actual trust funder is a teacher and his wife is an engineer. They would never hire help because the 2 million dollar home is enough of a negative reinforcement on their kids. The house is in the family and he is the last one left in the state, so he must occupy it.
That's rare in Egypt.... I wouldnt call it ALOT.....
Let's not forget something very important........ those people who are below the poverty line or let's just say poor need to earn a living......... so hiring a poor maid & paying her back for her service is good for her, good for her kids........ you are doing good for the poor......... you are feeding poor houses
quote: Its not that hiring someone to clean your home, watch your kids, do your cooking, run your errands, and wash the car is cheap. Its because the rich and upper middle class wouldn't be caught dead doing these chores in Egypt.
You have got to believe it...... not only the wealthy or upper class in Egypt can afford maids..... almost all the middle class can. But the Upper classes in Egypt can afford more than one maid, one maid & a cook, or even maids from abroad..... Philipinnos, for instance
quote: Otherwise the impression I have of the wealthy in Egypt won't change.
That's up to you but it's only an impression not necessarily fact.
I know you think that upper classes here are spolied rotten..... but that's everywhere....... In your country or in Europe, your rich have big houses, several expensive cars, servants & butlers and even private jets but that population is like 1% in every country.......
That 1% in Egypt is Mubarak & his people ..... it's our money, it's our damn money........ we dont deserve to have a first lady who has atleast 1000 pairs of shoes while the remaining 80% are barefoot
We dont deserve that only the first lady & the president live in atleast 3 or 4 huges CASTLES around the country while having a huge oercentage of families all living in one room ......... kids waking up in the middle of the night to see their parents having sex Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People: Expose what? Every Egyptian knows this happens al the time! The only thing new is the video. [/QB]
LOL......... it's a scandal........ we all know it & hate it......... we've been hearing horror stories for a long time
quote:Originally posted by Auto Matic For The People:
posted
Wrong I do read your posts because you follow me around just like you are doing now! Notice the pattern? I post then you post! look above, look back, I ask everyone to ignore you because YOU are self obsessed, you love attention good or bad. You are an attention seeker, a trouble maker, a liar, and most of all a fool. Your type of FUN is not what NORMAL people call FUN, but then again you are not NORMAL are you? Once in a while I get tired of your crap, the way you insult people for no valid reason, then I post back to you. Its been a very long while since I addressed you directly.......you bore me, this is tiring, and pathetic. Get a life. Listen when people tell you that you are an arse, a trouble maker, they are giving you advice, but you are too thick to see it. By the way Uggs are sooooooo............last couple of years............lol Need to renew your OK subscription Posts: 1500 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha: Mubarak is in Helipolis, everyone knows that.
Dont forget that Heliopolis must be spotless clean especially in those areas surrounding the residence of Mubarak & Gamal in Oruba, Salah Salem & Merghany....... And in the areas surrounding the AIRPORT !!!!!!!
quote: I said nothing about abusing maids.
That was mentioned in another thread & I wanted to add this tiny point here
quote: I know alot of people who live in 2 million dollar homes and are trust fund recieptants. An actual trust funder is a teacher and his wife is an engineer. They would never hire help because the 2 million dollar home is enough of a negative reinforcement on their kids. The house is in the family and he is the last one left in the state, so he must occupy it.
That's rare in Egypt.... I wouldnt call it ALOT.....
Let's not forget something very important........ those people who are below the poverty line or let's just say poor need to earn a living......... so hiring a poor maid & paying her back for her service is good for her, good for her kids........ you are doing good for the poor......... you are feeding poor houses
quote: Its not that hiring someone to clean your home, watch your kids, do your cooking, run your errands, and wash the car is cheap. Its because the rich and upper middle class wouldn't be caught dead doing these chores in Egypt.
You have got to believe it...... not only the wealthy or upper class in Egypt can afford maids..... almost all the middle class can. But the Upper classes in Egypt can afford more than one maid, one maid & a cook, or even maids from abroad..... Philipinnos, for instance
quote: Otherwise the impression I have of the wealthy in Egypt won't change.
That's up to you but it's only an impression not necessarily fact.
I know you think that upper classes here are spolied rotten..... but that's everywhere....... In your country or in Europe, your rich have big houses, several expensive cars, servants & butlers and even private jets but that population is like 1% in every country.......
That 1% in Egypt is Mubarak & his people ..... it's our money, it's our damn money........ we dont deserve to have a first lady who has atleast 1000 pairs of shoes while the remaining 80% are barefoot
We dont deserve that only the first lady & the president live in atleast 3 or 4 huges CASTLES around the country while having a huge oercentage of families all living in one room ......... kids waking up in the middle of the night to see their parents having sex
Here you go lets point out some entertaining moral detractions of the poor.
While poor kids see their parents engaging in matrimonal intercourse, rich kids get to see dad screw the 12 year old maid in the kitchen at night.
Kinda see a difference here?
And why does the only employment available have to be doing personal services for the rich and middle class? Is the concept of "job creation" a foreign idea in Egypt? I mean this is thee biggest platform issue for most of the 1980s in the USA, job creation, job creation, job creation.......
Seriously there is far more pride in manufacturing cars, building buildings, recycling sciences, and so forth than cleaning someone's home.
But heck the wealthy are far more happy to have a choice of 40 different maids to chose from than watch a burgeoning 70% of the population find stable, skill producing, economy building, self-respect creating professional positions.
Cripes no wonder the wealthy want to keep things the way they are in Egypt.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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What's wrong Albino in having maids serve in homes?............. The maids choose to do this..... ok, they may have no other choice than this becuase the majority of them are not educated & have no skills to do something better.... They are not forced to work as maids, they do it because they have no other choice to earn money & live.
Serving the rich or the middle class is not the only employment for the poor.... i was answering your post about the servants.... but there are other jobs such as workers in factories, the post man, the drivers (cab, buses, public transportation in general), Ironing man (makwagy), parking guys (menady)........ etc, so many So many jobs for the poor who have no education & have no skills to do something better than what they have to do to earn a living.
If they want to do something better & get out of this non-ending circle that you call "serving the rich"..... they have to get a decent education....... & education is free in public/ goverment owned schools & universities......... Nobody is holding them back or stopping them..... They are simply lazy or not ambitious.
take into account, that there is high unemployment here.... so the educated poor dont have connections & get no jobs...... i meet waiters & waitresses who have a college degree just like mine but they end up waiting in restaurants & hotels becuase they have been looking forever for suitable jobs and they have a family of sisters & brothers to support or kids & a lazy husband back home who doesnt want to lift a finger
And I am repeating it again, the middle class are not rich & yet they can affort to have maids (one ofcourse) because it's cheap relatively.
It's not the wealthy who want to keep things the way they are in Egypt...... the governement does & the USA is helping them do that....... Besides Egyptians in general are so resistant to change. although they Mubarak's guts....... They are afraid of what the future might bring when he's gone.......... They are even afriad to resist him, & he knows it & will scare them more......... no wonder nothing changes.
You just refuse to understand
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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The Egyptian government is corrupt and undemocratic. The people have endured years of false promises, draconian laws and poverty. Decay, desperation and cynicism result. How can any society flourish under these pressures?
The thread question asks who is to blame for this, the people or the government? If society doesn't have the basic infrastructure in place to allow it to run smoothly, chaos results. People see little point in caring, as no one else does.
It is the job of the government to put services and people in place to make things happen. If there is not a reliable, affordable service for all, rubbish on the streets becomes a problem.
This is by no means only an Egyptian issue. In poorer parts of the west, you see more evidence of vandalism,decay and littering. In richer parts of Egypt, the streets look pretty pristine to me. It's easy for people to take pride in their environment, when they have resources to support this. Educating people costs money and time. In the UK, millions pound litter campaigns are regularly run. People have to be encouraged and persuaded to act responsibly, even in 2006.
If Egypt had a government which managed the resources of the people properly, it wouldn't be a third world country.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT: What's wrong Albino in having maids serve in homes?............. The maids choose to do this..... ok, they may have no other choice than this becuase the majority of them are not educated & have no skills to do something better.... They are not forced to work as maids, they do it because they have no other choice to earn money & live.
Serving the rich or the middle class is not the only employment for the poor.... i was answering your post about the servants.... but there are other jobs such as workers in factories, the post man, the drivers (cab, buses, public transportation in general), Ironing man (makwagy), parking guys (menady)........ etc, so many So many jobs for the poor who have no education & have no skills to do something better than what they have to do to earn a living.
If they want to do something better & get out of this non-ending circle that you call "serving the rich"..... they have to get a decent education....... & education is free in public/ goverment owned schools & universities......... Nobody is holding them back or stopping them..... They are simply lazy or not ambitious.
take into account, that there is high unemployment here.... so the educated poor dont have connections & get no jobs...... i meet waiters & waitresses who have a college degree just like mine but they end up waiting in restaurants & hotels becuase they have been looking forever for suitable jobs and they have a family of sisters & brothers to support or kids & a lazy husband back home who doesnt want to lift a finger
And I am repeating it again, the middle class are not rich & yet they can affort to have maids (one ofcourse) because it's cheap relatively.
It's not the wealthy who want to keep things the way they are in Egypt...... the governement does & the USA is helping them do that....... Besides Egyptians in general are so resistant to change. although they Mubarak's guts....... They are afraid of what the future might bring when he's gone.......... They are even afriad to resist him, & he knows it & will scare them more......... no wonder nothing changes.
You just refuse to understand
So the poor are poor because they are lazy.
And who is spending 16 hours a day on the internet?
And why aren't you resisting Mubarak? What have you done to challenge Mubarak?
I mean seriously when ever I sit down and read the ethos of zakrat in Islam, the perspective towards the poor is so opposite of what you have to say in these posts.
I mean according to what the Final Prophet (PBUH) had instructed Muslims to do in regards to alleviating poverty, modern Muslims do the opposite. While the west doesn't even understand what is required according to ISlam in regards to poverty, yet the west is more inline with Islam than many modern Middle Eastern Muslims.
Why is that?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha: So the poor are poor because they are lazy.
And who is spending 16 hours a day on the internet?
And why aren't you resisting Mubarak? What have you done to challenge Mubarak?
I mean seriously when ever I sit down and read the ethos of zakrat in Islam, the perspective towards the poor is so opposite of what you have to say in these posts.
I mean according to what the Final Prophet (PBUH) had instructed Muslims to do in regards to alleviating poverty, modern Muslims do the opposite. While the west doesn't even understand what is required according to ISlam in regards to poverty, yet the west is more inline with Islam than many modern Middle Eastern Muslims.
Why is that?
You too spend all your time on the Internet I never said I am not lazy LOL..... but atleast I got my college degree........ Besides I wish people spent sometimes everyday on the Internet (but no addiction) It's agreat free source of information & you know it
I am not saying all of them are lazy.... if you read my post carefully you will see that I also mentioned that there is high unemployment exists in Egypt & even the educated poor cant find jobs.
The west have good qualities & we aspire to them but they are not perfect.
Me? resist Mubarak? how? tell me how & I will do it without getting myself in prison or killed for it........... It's not about me.... it's about all Egyptians. they truied by rallying but soes it work? No...... yo can bang your head against the wall & die but nothing happens.
Ever heard of this recent trend of beating up those who rally & tearing off women's clothes?
I wish we could resist but how? And will change happen? No
Havent you seen SayWhaYouSee's post?
You ask alot of questions but you still refuse or fail to understand you've seen so many answers on this thread & they are still not good enough for you Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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Anyway, what's the confusion with Middle Middle Class or Upper Middle & nouveau Riche
If you check the wikipedia or any source you will find the three as separate classes
Upper middle class is a subdivion in the middle class and the middle middle is another subdivision while Nouveau riche is another class that usually comes from below with no culture of education or pedigree & suddenly try to fit itself with the upper classes but they fail because they do not have anything in common with them except with other nouveau riche like them
-------------------- Femme Fatale Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha: I mean to put an end to this type of humiliation and abuse of power does Egypt need to stop being Egyptian?
quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT:
Me? resist Mubarak? how? tell me how & I will do it without getting myself in prison or killed for it........... It's not about me.... it's about all Egyptians. they truied by rallying but soes it work? No...... yo can bang your head against the wall & die but nothing happens.
Ever heard of this recent trend of beating up those who rally & tearing off women's clothes?
I wish we could resist but how? And will change happen? No
That's it, that's what I was getting at. Everyone seems to think that "resisting" means to stand up against the government by demonstrating or whatever else. Is that because we don't want to do our duty toward each other and tend to blame it all on the government? I know the government is corrupt and failed in it's duty to serve the people but I also believe that the people are responsible for helping each other and their community.
As for resisting Mubarak and getting yourself jailed and/or killed......what's wrong with that? Well if everyone is afraid of standing up for their rights and the rights of their fellow citizens who is going to?
Posts: 164 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT:
what do you suggest we do? Yes we are cowards, we'd live in peace rather than die for freedom
Who said it's a good thing? it's cowardice, desperation & submission
The next revolution has started already.
It's taking the next forms:
1- A wave of cyber-anger summing up. Communities forming and people talking. Like you and me now. It's a snowball effect that the government cannot overcome if the ball becomes big enough.
2- The wave of brainwashing the Egyptians with the slogan: "Islam is the Solution", which is turning Egypt into a country of religious freaks who think Islam is only about wearing a veil and growing a beard and hating the West, and being busy with the most trivial things, like making a national case, taking months, of fighting over whether a hole in a bed-sheet during sex is the best way to mate.
3- A wave of violence and crime among the new generation that has too much time and too little money. Be it street-fighting (with or without swords!!), stealing, raping, killing, sabotage, drugs-use, etc..
4- A tsunami of people emigrating, especially the Christians and the highly-educated. The demography of Egypt is changing dramatically and it's all because of what's going on (I posted a thread about this once but no-one cared to reply)
5- A considerable number of people escaping from reality and simply going nuts and start wandering in the streets screaming all kinds of weird slogans, including fcuk Mubarak, but hey they're nuts, right?
Feel free to add to the list.
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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Insightful remarks from MK. I especially agree with the points on brainwashing. Will the drip, drip, drip of reason happen through unconventional communication methods, like the internet? Perhaps. For the sake of the people of Egypt, I just hope the ''snowball'' begins to roll with more momentum soon.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Silicone Sally what's wrong no one to fight with? you just spend your life bouncing from one member to the other.......... This fight is over. I call the shots and you lost! I wont respond to the Ugg and D&G I think everyone reading can predict what I would write if I had an interest! which I dont. As I said before GET A LIFE!
Posts: 1500 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Insightful remarks from MK. I especially agree with the points on brainwashing. Will the drip, drip, drip of reason happen through unconventional communication methods, like the internet? Perhaps. For the sake of the people of Egypt, I just hope the ''snowball'' begins to roll with more momentum soon.
SWYS, I am not sure though if the snowball effect will be optimal. We lack organization and thoughtful planning. And I have heard of horror stories of what happens to young men and women who get arrested for political reasons, or even for no apparent reasons.
Spreading fear is indeed a powerful weapon that the current government is successfully using.
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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Yes, I agree, MK. The risks of speaking freely are high indeed, in Egypt. The government uses fear, Emergency Law, any means, to curb opposition. Egypt needs better local and political leaders. Religion also gets in the way and hampers democracy. There is too much submission in Egypt and not enough unified resistance. Until people listen more to each other, rather than the ramblings of so-called Islamic scholars, the country will remain in the dark.
Resistance based on religion will not succeed, as half the country secretly loathes the religious-police-in-waiting. The other half is too brainwashed to notice anything but their own anger, unquestioning and too grateful from finding acceptance and a sense of community at the mosque. Egypt is a great country, in waiting. How long the people have to wait is partly up to them.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ChinderallaAngelTormentor CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha: So the poor are poor because they are lazy.
And who is spending 16 hours a day on the internet?
And why aren't you resisting Mubarak? What have you done to challenge Mubarak?
I mean seriously when ever I sit down and read the ethos of zakrat in Islam, the perspective towards the poor is so opposite of what you have to say in these posts.
I mean according to what the Final Prophet (PBUH) had instructed Muslims to do in regards to alleviating poverty, modern Muslims do the opposite. While the west doesn't even understand what is required according to ISlam in regards to poverty, yet the west is more inline with Islam than many modern Middle Eastern Muslims.
Why is that?
You too spend all your time on the Internet I never said I am not lazy LOL..... but atleast I got my college degree........ Besides I wish people spent sometimes everyday on the Internet (but no addiction) It's agreat free source of information & you know it
I am not saying all of them are lazy.... if you read my post carefully you will see that I also mentioned that there is high unemployment exists in Egypt & even the educated poor cant find jobs.
The west have good qualities & we aspire to them but they are not perfect.
Me? resist Mubarak? how? tell me how & I will do it without getting myself in prison or killed for it........... It's not about me.... it's about all Egyptians. they truied by rallying but soes it work? No...... yo can bang your head against the wall & die but nothing happens.
Ever heard of this recent trend of beating up those who rally & tearing off women's clothes?
I wish we could resist but how? And will change happen? No
Havent you seen SayWhaYouSee's post?
You ask alot of questions but you still refuse or fail to understand you've seen so many answers on this thread & they are still not good enough for you
You are right your answers are not good enough for me and certainly do Egypt no good either.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I am actually mentioning Mubarak's name with caution, I started doing this when I found guys here doing that but otherwise I wouldnt have dared do it.......... I heard that they they arrest those who use the internet & bash Mubarak. Have you heard about that before?
guys, if I disappear more than two days you have to start thinking that something wrong must have happened to me........ please start looking for me...... or maybe it will be useless as i will disappear from the face of the earth
Sono, Not just my answers ..... everybody's answers are not good enough for you because you are stupid enough .... and stop balming me becuase I am not the president
It is not one's problem is is everybody's problem......... it's your problem too
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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Chinderalla is sadly right. There is great danger in Egypt. I bet they do police the internet.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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