posted
Just a heads up to everyone who is staying here in Egypt long-term on a Tourist Visa: I went to renew my visa at Mogamma in Cairo today to be told that the law has changed and the maximum extension permitted on a Tourist Visa now is only 3 months. After that time you either have to come back with an application for residency based on work, studying, marriage, or a child studying here. If you can't do that you will have to leave Egypt!!
I made such a nuisance of myself, asking to talk to the senior officer and then not giving in easily that he finally gave me a 6 months extension, but that will be my final Tourist Visa extension.
Looks like Egypt is finally catching up with the rest of the world in regard to visas and isn't going to give employers a cop-out for employing foreigners without a work visa.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
Where there's a will, there's a way and a viable albeit inconvenient option would be visa runs(in this case re-entry) to neighboring countries. Three months is pretty tight though, especially for persons planning on living there long term.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Going in and out is not an option here as it is in other countries, as I had gone to get a new visa as my previous single-entry visa had been nullified by a trip out of the country. Once they saw that I had a file with previous visas, that was when they told me that I could only have an extension of 3 months.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Going in and out is not an option here as it is in other countries, as I had gone to get a new visa as my previous single-entry visa had been nullified by a trip out of the country. Once they saw that I had a file with previous visas, that was when they told me that I could only have an extension of 3 months.
This is bad. Very bad news for many people, i wonder if this new law was politically motivated, a result of the influx of Iraqis. This new law will certainly effect some people more than others.
I am just guessing, it just seems so unEgyptian like, totally against the hospitable nature of the Egyptian government.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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These news was expected over the past few weeks, there was many programs on the egyptian tvs about the bad treatment that egyptian citzens received by the european/american counslate and embassies andthe assitant foreign minsters has met and warrned all those embassdors and counsolres that was not acceptable and he threaten that Egypt ( despit it relies on tourism as big source of income) will make harder rules for foreign nationals till the euopean and american embassies give more respect to egyptian nationals.. so that is rally well done action bythe egyptian government
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by south_london_male: These news was expected over the past few weeks, there was many programs on the egyptian tvs about the bad treatment that egyptian citzens received by the european/american counslate and embassies andthe assitant foreign minsters has met and warrned all those embassdors and counsolres that was not acceptable and he threaten that Egypt ( despit it relies on tourism as big source of income) will make harder rules for foreign nationals till the euopean and american embassies give more respect to egyptian nationals.. so that is rally well done action bythe egyptian government
If that’s the case then good for Egypt, so is this official government policy. Or is it something temporary because how can the Egyptian government follow up on the treatment of Egyptian citizens by foreign missions? I mean what will they have polls or something to determine how Egyptians are being treated by foreign missions.
This echoes Sadat’s petty policy on Arab visitors and residents, when he had a little beef with say Arafat or Qhaddafy he would issue directives to the MOE to complicate matters for Palestinians and Libyans, especially immigration matters.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Egyptians visa applicants won't be treated any different by foreign Western governments because of that - I kinda doubt it's truly the cause.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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From the things they were saying to me it sounded as if they were trying stop employers employing foreigners without a work visa, as they kept on telling me to get my company to get me a visa, even though I kept on telling them that I wasn't employed by a single company, but a freelance worker (which is what I am now again, partly because my employer couldn't get a work visa for me, because those rules have tightened up so much now too. You now need a certificate of experience to prove that you have done the job you are being employed for in Egypt for at least 4 years outside Egypt, and that has to be verified by the Egyptian Embassy in the country you got the experience in!). So things are really tightening up.
They kept on asking me why I was here, and that I had to have a reason to be here...liking Egypt and Egyptians wasn't enough of a reason Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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Yes it was said they are going to monitor the foreign messions ,, I have seen many ofthe programs ,, and they have received many complains ,, including complains from many VIP egyptians , including former diplomats whoi have been treated very badly and were asked to subbmit many documnets to get the visas,, many ofthe very famous writers .. and many of those people decided to boycot the EU union and USA and decided not to travel there any more .. most of the people including normal citzens contacted the foreign minstry and made complains ,, so the egyptian goernemnet reacted in civalised method by calling the embassdors first and gave them warning ,, and some of them promised to imporve the way they deal with egyptians ,, but some did not so the new policy was must ,, I beleive that /expect more measures will be applied soon as well to stop those sex seekrs females from keep coming to Egypt to hunt the egyptian men ,, but that might take some time to happen
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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No Tiger ,, it is really one the causes I have watched so many programs in July and August and that was very clear expected the assistand foreighn minster said we will make tougher rules for european .. and by the way most ofthe complains were aganist France , Greece and Germany .. even the complains was about that thsoe people got refused to have the visa despite they been there manytimes and did not have any problems plus they all good characters in Egypt as University professors..etc and there is no way they were going there for looking for work,, all of them were going for seminars . confernces.. by the way the person who intiated the whole matter and led the complains is the assitant editor for one of the leading magazine in Egypt who have been refused the VISA to france despite the official invitation for a confence , also she been asked very stupied questions in the interview as .. are you goiing to wear the hejab in France or are you going to remove it!! any way I beleive it is very well done action and it has to be done very long tike ago to treat those foreign officials very good lesson for respecting other non western nationals
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: From the things they were saying to me it sounded as if they were trying stop employers employing foreigners without a work visa, as they kept on telling me to get my company to get me a visa, even though I kept on telling them that I wasn't employed by a single company, but a freelance worker (which is what I am now again, partly because my employer couldn't get a work visa for me, because those rules have tightened up so much now too. You now need a certificate of experience to prove that you have done the job you are being employed for in Egypt for at least 4 years outside Egypt, and that has to be verified by the Egyptian Embassy in the country you got the experience in!). So things are really tightening up.
They kept on asking me why I was here, and that I had to have a reason to be here...liking Egypt and Egyptians wasn't enough of a reason
More bureaucratic nonsense and I think it is official policy because I mentioned in another thread that I was researching the business and labor laws here and there is also something very similar to what you have mentioned (certificate of experience), only here they call it “certificate of qualification”. So I think Egypt is following Jordan lead once again, first it was gradually lifting of fuel subsidies and now this. Anyway back to the topic, this certificate of experience/qualification is actually very difficult to attain for many professions. So I can see the difficulty you faced, there will also most likely be a priority for certain nationalities based on bilateral agreements and in which case preference will be given to Arab professionals, technicians, laborers etc because of such agreements.
I guess Egypt is finally going on the books. I am also guessing that a new visitor will be given 3 months and afterward it could be renewable for 3 additional months, after which the visitor must leave Egypt. And if they don’t, then a fine of $2 per day will incur, does this sound familiar? This will amount to $730 a year and if the fine is not paid when exiting Egypt, the tourist will be barred from entry for X amount of years.
Some of the ramifications will be that Egyptian driving license will not be issued for such visas, car registrations will not be issued for such visas and if Egyptian authorities become computerized this will pose a problem for over stayers, an example is traveling through sinai when they ask for passports/identification.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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LOL! This scenario could be become very much true!! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I know you're Egyptian and you see this as all good, one in the eye and all that, but do you not see how childish this is? If their reason is "You won't let us play on your swing so you're not playing on ours" how can you applaud that?
What if the Europeans and Americans decide to be equally as petty and return the favour? This will be political games which affect the ordinary person. You included?
We're not all here in Egypt looking for Egyptian men, some simply live here for love of the country and people, some have property or are retired here. Why do we need to suffer because a couple of diplomats throw a temper tantrum? Didn't the USA just accept 4000 Egyptians?
What effect will this have on the local economy? Will property owners start selling up? What will landlords do with lose of rental income? Will retired people leave and take their Euros, Sterling and Dollars with them? What about the tourists who only visit to see family members living here? What message will this send to people abroad who are being urged to invest in Egypt?
This just sounds like another rash decision which hasn't taken all the factors into consideration and I can't believe that people have been made to find this out when they go to renew their visa instead of there being a proper announcement. Shame Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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I've missed your wisdom on ES so I guess some good came from this mess because it caused you to post again!
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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nonslepless in cairo,, what about equal treatment ? have you heard about that before,, what is wrong with Egypt treats foreign people as egyptians get treated by foreign authorities? what a shame that some one gives her country the right to be more suporior than other countries,, if you were treated the same bad way egyptians get treated ,, and your country is giving all easy visas to egyptians would you be happy for that? would you be happy for what the egyptian government does? it is not rash decision at all... it is very late one,, it is your fault and other expat that they do not read the egyptian papers or see the arabic TVs in Egypt ,, many of you claim they love Egypt and this why they live in Egypt ,, but they only follow the very sad news in Egypt or what happen wrong to tourists.. but they do not really live in Egypt .. tell me which arabic programs you are watching in th Egyptian TVs .. which arabic paper you read daily? I am egyptian and I live in London and I have I have to watch the english TV and read the english papers and foolow all the affairs here despite I can live only on the egyptian/arabic media .. really shame that foreign people live in Egypt and are not aware of most ofthe local important news
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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That's 100% true. There are many Egyptians complaning that they are treated like **** when they apply for visa, go and see how much they charge the Visa fee to enter US, if you are granted or not you still have to pay which is above $100, but in Egypt, you get your visa in the airport for so little and right away.
quote:Originally posted by south_london_male: nonslepless in cairo,, what about equal treatment ? have you heard about that before,, what is wrong with Egypt treats foreign people as egyptians get treated by foreign authorities? what a shame that some one gives her country the right to be more suporior than other countries,, if you were treated the same bad way egyptians get treated ,, and your country is giving all easy visas to egyptians would you be happy for that? would you be happy for what the egyptian government does? it is not rash decision at all... it is very late one,, it is your fault and other expat that they do not read the egyptian papers or see the arabic TVs in Egypt ,, many of you claim they love Egypt and this why they live in Egypt ,, but they only follow the very sad news in Egypt or what happen wrong to tourists.. but they do not really live in Egypt .. tell me which arabic programs you are watching in th Egyptian TVs .. which arabic paper you read daily? I am egyptian and I live in London and I have I have to watch the english TV and read the english papers and foolow all the affairs here despite I can live only on the egyptian/arabic media .. really shame that foreign people live in Egypt and are not aware of most ofthe local important news
posted
We should also keep in mind that the new policy is way over due and really Egypt was known as a nation that took in “people who have a purpose and people who don’t have a purpose in life”. What sovereign nation has such a policy? Every nation is entitled to have laws that protect its citizens and clearly such old laws did not. People are always talking about tourism and its revenue but such revenue is mere peanuts at only 8-9 Billion dollars a year annually, peanuts especially for a nation of 80 million people. Egypt needs serious reform across the board. A Big Mac combo cost $3 in Hong Kong and $4.50 in Cairo yet the college kids working in Hong Kong McDonald’s are able to buy ipods, cars, rent rooms, take their girlfriends to dinner and the movies and the college kids in cairo’s McDonald’s are paid 700 L.E a month. This needs to change.
And if people think the tourism industry will be hurt they are greatly mistaken because MOST genuine tourists do not stay more than 3 months. And for bonafide retirees they have nothing to worry about because the law stipulates that such people may remain in Egypt indefinitely (1 year renewable visa) provided they meet the criteria and I want to add VERY EASY requirements such as owning an apartment that is valued at $50,0000 or by simply having $50,0000 in a fixed account.
Which other country has such easy immigration laws? None even with the New law Egypt is enacting.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Just a heads up to everyone who is staying here in Egypt long-term on a Tourist Visa: I went to renew my visa at Mogamma in Cairo today to be told that the law has changed and the maximum extension permitted on a Tourist Visa now is only 3 months. After that time you either have to come back with an application for residency based on work, studying, marriage, or a child studying here. If you can't do that you will have to leave Egypt!!
I made such a nuisance of myself, asking to talk to the senior officer and then not giving in easily that he finally gave me a 6 months extension, but that will be my final Tourist Visa extension.
Looks like Egypt is finally catching up with the rest of the world in regard to visas and isn't going to give employers a cop-out for employing foreigners without a work visa.
How much do they charge for this 3 month visa?
Posts: 643 | From: Over there | Registered: Aug 2007
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You are very right Karim .. that was one of the many complains,, they charge the egyptian applicants 100s of dollars or euros and so many documents ,, and they decline the visa and stamp the passport with refused and at the end they do not refund the money back ,, what a theft ,, also they do not give any reasons forthe refusals and beside that they treat the egyptians in bad way and ask them to leave,,and ate the mean time the tourist cometo egypt with very great hospoitality and almost no cost for visa and no waiting and they get the visa at the aiport and you find some silly ones complain that they pay around 30 dollars for visa.. and they talk about helping the economey ,, Iam egyptian and wORKL IN uk ,, I pay 40% of my hard work income to the britich government .. do I help the conomey here or not? I pay my rent ..my travel.. my shopping do I help or not? even those egyptian men who are visa sekkers in return for sex with those old western women.. when they come here they do help they do work,, egyptian men like to work all the time ,, so why they get bad treatemnet by any embassy!!!
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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Where are these Egyptian people applying for visas? Is it not in the embassies in Cairo?
Who are the employees in the embassies? Is it not Egyptian people?
So who is treating who badly? Is it not Egyptian on Egyptian?
Do you get charged higher prices for being an Egyptian in London?
Have you ever tried to obtain an Egyptian visa from the consulate in London? Do you know the dragon that works there?
Have you had dealings in Mogamma Tahrir? Have you seen Irhab wil Kebab? Imagine navigating that as a foreigner.
Have you tried to register a business or property in Egypt? Imagine navigating that as a foreigner.
I haven't said in any place that people shouldn't be treated equally. You are speaking about this issue as if the embassies are tying the applicants up, beating them and then throwing them out of the building! They are being refused visas! It happens all over the world! If the Egyptian government would like to tighten up their visa procedures then good for them, but so suddenly and without warning? This is my main problem. This information was not in the newspapers. Hints about "what we will do if you don't share your sweets" does not constitute an announcement that the rules are changing.
I know some of the ways in which Egyptians are mistreated by their own people because I am often mistaken for an Egyptian. I get my rights when I speak English so what does this say to us foreigners about the way Egyptians treat each other? This is where the problem starts and if solved may be where it ends. You can't jump up and down about equal rights when you can't even get that from your own government which is then transferred down through society - right into the embassies which employ Egyptian staff Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by south_london_male: You are very right Karim .. that was one of the many complains,, they charge the egyptian applicants 100s of dollars or euros and so many documents ,, and they decline the visa and stamp the passport with refused and at the end they do not refund the money back ,, what a theft ,, also they do not give any reasons forthe refusals and beside that they treat the egyptians in bad way and ask them to leave,,and ate the mean time the tourist cometo egypt with very great hospoitality and almost no cost for visa and no waiting and they get the visa at the aiport and you find some silly ones complain that they pay around 30 dollars for visa.. and they talk about helping the economey ,, Iam egyptian and wORKL IN uk ,, I pay 40% of my hard work income to the britich government .. do I help the conomey here or not? I pay my rent ..my travel.. my shopping do I help or not? even those egyptian men who are visa sekkers in return for sex with those old western women.. when they come here they do help they do work,, egyptian men like to work all the time ,, so why they get bad treatemnet by any embassy!!!
Keep in mind that most embassy staff hate their positions and hate living in Egypt. Many members here love Egypt but most embassy staff prefers working in other nations and other cities. So that could be one of their reasons. Secondly there a tally is almost always kept and citizens from countries like Egypt almost always never return to Egypt after their visas expire in western countries. The consular officers know these facts and know these statistics and you can’t blame them in a way because they are being lied to nine times out of ten and they know this. Now with regards to fees well fees are usually the same for all nationalities whether they are Egyptian, Chinese or Cambodian. The fees are actually for the amount of work and paperwork that the staff spends on average for every application. These fees keep the embassies well maintained. That’s life, the Budweiser and steaks that the staff eat drink has to be paid from somewhere Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Notslepless.: I wil go with you and agree that the staff there are Egyptians( despite the majority are not ) but the embassador , counsleer..etc get unlimted complain about the way they treat people so why on earth do they keep them? why they do not ask them to change? also where in embassy you can find information desk telling people why they have been refused ? also do you think those egypotian staff will risk their job and treat other egyptians in bad way unless they have the support from their boss? it is easy to figurethat out .. you do not have to be very smart .. also tell me why the high cost of the UK /Singen /USA VISA what sort of adminstration work it needs? and what other hard work it needs more than the egyptian VISA? unless they use golden stamp and use diamond paper!! or may be As Exiled said the cost of the Budwiser they drink to finish the visa..opps I mean to decline the visa in most cases
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Exiled: Keep in mind that most embassy staff hate their positions and hate living in Egypt. Many members here love Egypt but most embassy staff prefers working in other nations and other cities. So that could be one of their reasons. Secondly there a tally is almost always kept and citizens from countries like Egypt almost always never return to Egypt after their visas expire in western countries. The consular officers know these facts and know these statistics and you can’t blame them in a way because they are being lied to nine times out of ten and they know this. Now with regards to fees well fees are usually the same for all nationalities whether they are Egyptian, Chinese or Cambodian. The fees are actually for the amount of work and paperwork that the staff spends on average for every application. These fees keep the embassies well maintained. That’s life, the Budweiser and steaks that the staff eat drink has to be paid from somewhere
I doubt that the staff of the "embassy" are the ones that ever see any of this money. But to be honest . . . Budweiser with a steak??? bleh, what a waste of good meat! of course, if it is steak in egypt . . . then maybe pouring the budweiser over it to cook it might be better.
I do know many Egyptians that come to the States and go back to Egypt . . . because they have good work there. The ones that stay are trying to find a better life and I don't blame them. It is just better to get here legally because things are harder if you are an illegal.
Posts: 895 | From: NorthTexas, USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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South London: I don't know the percentage of Egyptians vs foreigners employed in the Embassies but I know I have only ever seen one British woman working in the consular section of the Brit embassy vs more than 7/8 Egyptians and you know that Egyptian labour law states that a company can only hire 1 foreigner for every 20 (?) Egyptians, so it's my guess the majority are Egyptians.
I would be wary of taking stories from Newspapers or disgruntled diplomats as gospel since they're only telling one side of the story. Who knows why they were refused? Could there be some fault on their part? Failure to supply information? You know very well that the British system especially would probably have strict compliance rules so what of the French and Germans? Do you really think a decent embassy would reject applicants who meet all of their criteria?
I don't know what support the local staff get from their employers. Could there be some misunderstanding in instructions? "Deal with applicants firmly" = "Treat applicants like s**t? Who knows except the ones working on the inside.
I don't support the high costs, but I can tell you it's the same for us. The British are charged extortionate fees for any services, passport loss or renewal, registering births etc. It seems to be the same uk prices + admin fee and it's not just in Egypt. I experienced the same when I dealt with the British Embassy in Germany.
If you can ask why is the Egyptian visa cheaper than the foreign visa, so you should also ask yourself why is a can of coke cheaper in Egypt than the UK? Logic.
So the only case where the Egyptians are supposedly not treated equally is for an issue which can't be verified.
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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To be honest, taking this away from a personal level, and not even looking at this as a possible tit-for-tat, what other country in the world can you go and stay in and renew your tourist visa for eternity, with no proof of why you are staying in the country or financial support? I can't think of one, unless it is a country that is a member of a group, like the EC.
The fact that Egypt has had, up to now, such a flexible visa policy has encouraged many people to come to settle in Egypt, because "it is the easiest country to get into and stay in", particularly Muslims who want to live in a Muslim country, and also many people who want a cheaper place to live on their retirement pension or child allowances.
Although it could be said that these people are adding to the economy, most of them aren't doing so in a major investment way. Many of the foreigners who are working here have been doing so without a visa and under the table, not paying taxes - although not always due to their own fault or their employers. Some of these foreigners have been doing jobs that could have been done by Egyptians and have therefore been adding to the national unemployment problems here.
To be honest, now that my initial surprise has died down, I am more surprised that Egypt has taken so long to tighten up on this law, and to bring it more into line with international law. It is sad that it has been implemented in this way, but that is probably the most typically Egyptian thing about it
Jazak Allah khairan for the kind words NLIC. Although this is just a flying visit as I thought people here would want to know about this.
Pink Cherry, not sure how much the new visa will be, I just paid the initial 8 LE processing fee today and have to go back in 4 working days to pick it up, so I'll let you know then.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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Notslepless: let me tell you that .. I never had any problem myself at any british counslate ,, adn I never been to any in my life to obtain any visa ..even my first VISA for UK was issued by an International organisation who obtained the VISA for me in less than 24 hours so I can not complain .. but that was the case more than 20 years ago.. sincethen I have heared so many stories from many people which I know and beleieve .. so it is not from newspapers any way .. and most of these stories anre not very happy exeprince.. I can understand that you have to defend your country system ( even if it was wrong ) but my question is very simple again,, if you had the problems to get visa to egypt and at the same time your country was giving visas to egyptians at the airport.. would you be happy? would you support that? just try for once to be fair.. back to the boss at the embassies,, if they do not monitor the staff there then they should go back home and leave the work toi some one who is professional
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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When I enquired about uk visa for a friend I was told [or maybe read on website] that no fee was payable for preliminary application, the only time money was required was if there was a good chance the visa would be approved. As for being treated like dirt, phew, I always feel like that in my own Embassy/Consulate. We foreigners get so used to being treated nicely here in Egypt, it's a bit depressing to go back to be treated as a nuisance English person. What feels a bit tough about this new law is that the huge majorityof long stay foreigners here are financially secure, we don't ask for help from the government, and indeed probably contribute positively to the economy.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Jazak Allah khairan for the kind words NLIC. Although this is just a flying visit as I thought people here would want to know about this.
That's a shame! I hope you're enjoying whatever has taken ES's place in your life
I also agree with much of what you have said. Again I don't fault the government for what they're doing but I don't think their methods are civilised. If they are doing it for the right reasons then good for them, if it's just to appease someone with a high status who has been offended then ....
I think I'm less shocked about the visa issue than I am by the fact that this seems like a response to my recent istikhara I just didn't expect it to come in this way. Allahu Akbar!
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by south_london_male: Notslepless: let me tell you that .. I never had any problem myself at any british counslate ,, adn I never been to any in my life to obtain any visa ..even my first VISA for UK was issued by an International organisation who obtained the VISA for me in less than 24 hours so I can not complain .. but that was the case more than 20 years ago.. sincethen I have heared so many stories from many people which I know and beleieve .. so it is not from newspapers any way .. and most of these stories anre not very happy exeprince.. I can understand that you have to defend your country system ( even if it was wrong ) but my question is very simple again,, if you had the problems to get visa to egypt and at the same time your country was giving visas to egyptians at the airport.. would you be happy? would you support that? just try for once to be fair.. back to the boss at the embassies,, if they do not monitor the staff there then they should go back home and leave the work toi some one who is professional
I don't have to defend my country's system, believe me when I see wrong I say it, but in the case of this issue I have doubts about how simple this all really is.
In answer to your request for me to be fair, no I wouldn't be happy if my country was giving non Brits an easy way to get into the country. You mention you have been in or involved with the UK for 20 years.... did you meet any British person who was happy about the influx of refugees? Free housing? Somalians buying cars with their transportation allowance? Did you notice the chaos when the Polish started entering? So you know as well as I do that my government is nowhere near perfect and we sometimes suffer too.
Again! Good for the Egyptian government! I just hope they don't back down on this and end up looking foolish Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by NotSleeplessInCairo: I think I'm less shocked about the visa issue than I am by the fact that this seems like a response to my recent istikhara I just didn't expect it to come in this way. Allahu Akbar!
Me too...my timetable has just been set externally now Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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Slepless: you got me wrong ,, I did not say the governemnt reacted because VIPS been treated badly ,, I said including .. in fact all the VIPS who mentioned their stories and unhappy experince they mentioned that happend them more than a year or 2 ago .. and this why they boycot europe ,, and they do not go there any more,, and they prefer to spend the monet in EGypt rather than in countries which does not give them enough respect ,, the reaction came because very high volume of complains from normal egyptian citizens,, and the foreign minstery did not react at once they kept contacting the embassies for very long time and at the end they had to call the embassadors and give them final warning .. all of these news and actions were on all the media in Egypt as I have seen it while I am here in UK .. the only poroblme not many forign people in EGypt follow or catchthe righ news,, and do not worry they wil not look foolish even if they back down ,, as it is very normal for many goevrnnment to tight or rleax it is rules from time to time ,, including your government ,, one day they can be with Iraq and another day can be aganist .. one day supporting SADAM and another day aganist andthe third day is with Iraqi people ,, my dear when it comes to politics then you do noit use the word foolish ,, otherwise you can call all the british government and the british poeoiple are stupied and foolish ,, few years ago they were kiilling germans ,, now they are friends to germany
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by NotSleeplessInCairo: I think I'm less shocked about the visa issue than I am by the fact that this seems like a response to my recent istikhara I just didn't expect it to come in this way. Allahu Akbar!
Me too...my timetable has just been set externally now
Ahhh must be something in the air Well you have 6 months to prepare and I have until May 09 on my visa with multi entry valid until November 08. I need to find out if I can renew that because I was planning to leave and return a couple more times this year.
Alhamdulillah we both had other plans anyway but I feel for those who had intended to continue their lives here and have no intentions of getting married.
I do wonder if I'm jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire since my job offer is in Libya. Our "friend" there has no qualms about changing his rules according to his whims. The foreigners I met there told me the work visa process is not easy at all (even for multinationals) and there are strict rules about tourists. I was there for a month, overstayed by a couple of days and was shaking until I checked in and got through immigration!
Libyan government officials could never be accused of treating foreigners better than their own and it shows clearly!
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by south_london_male: Slepless: you got me wrong ,, I did not say the governemnt reacted because VIPS been treated badly ,, I said including .. in fact all the VIPS who mentioned their stories and unhappy experince they mentioned that happend them more than a year or 2 ago .. and this why they boycot europe ,, and they do not go there any more,, and they prefer to spend the monet in EGypt rather than in countries which does not give them enough respect ,, the reaction came because very high volume of complains from normal egyptian citizens,, and the foreign minstery did not react at once they kept contacting the embassies for very long time and at the end they had to call the embassadors and give them final warning .. all of these news and actions were on all the media in Egypt as I have seen it while I am here in UK .. the only poroblme not many forign people in EGypt follow or catchthe righ news,, and do not worry they wil not look foolish even if they back down ,, as it is very normal for many goevrnnment to tight or rleax it is rules from time to time ,, including your government ,, one day they can be with Iraq and another day can be aganist .. one day supporting SADAM and another day aganist andthe third day is with Iraqi people ,, my dear when it comes to politics then you do noit use the word foolish ,, otherwise you can call all the british government and the british poeoiple are stupied and foolish ,, few years ago they were kiilling germans ,, now they are friends to germany
I do follow the news here when I have time but that doesn't mean I follow it any better in the UK. I was also aware of this issue and had a feeling something drastic was going to happen, but I didn't expect this.
I'm anti government in general South London so I know very well how governments bounce back and forth between their decisions.
Anyway, Ramadan Kareem.. we will not put this situation right by discussions here, but it was interesting to hear your point of view. If this really is a vindication for the Egyptian people then I'm happy that for once something is being done for them even if only a small segment of the society. Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
If I were you, NSIC, I would keep my plans flexible as it seems as if anything could happen at the moment. Before they started talking about the 3 month visa thing, I did ask about getting a multiple-entry visa and was told that I would have to wait until I got the visa to be able to ask for one. As I haven't bothered with one before, I'm not sure if that is standard procedure or not, or part of the rule change.
Hmm, Libya, that sounds a bit risky, but I guess if the job offer is good, it would certainly be an interesting experience.
I agree, this new ruling is going to have some serious impacts on a lot of people's lives, especially those who have come for Hijrah or to retire, and those who have burned all their boats at home and made homes and lives here intending to stay. May Allah make it easy for them.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
To be honest when you think about the reverse an Egyptian going to the UK to retire it makes you realise Egypt is just coming in line with other countries.
A 50k investment in property is not a massive amount.
The only thing I find annoying is that although they say you can get residency permit has anyone ever achieved it.
Lots of people use the tourist visa route because the residency route is impossible to find out about or actually receive. They qualify no problem but don't want to spend the rest of lives standing in a queue at Mogamma
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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The only thing I find annoying is that although they say you can get residency permit has anyone ever achieved it.
Lots of people use the tourist visa route because the residency route is impossible to find out about or actually receive. They qualify no problem but don't want to spend the rest of lives standing in a queue at Mogamma
I came in with a standard 3 month visa at the airport. Just before it expired went to Mogamma with our UK marriage certificate and got 5 year residency visa free of charge that afternoon.
Yes if you are married you can easily get the 5 year residency visa. I did.
Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
i know for a fact egyptians are treated badly at the british embassy in cairo. cos my husband went there 5 times and twice the officer behind the desk just throw his papers at him. but when i returned to england i reported this to my local m.p who took the case up for me then next time i went to cairo i was asked to phone to make a appointment with one of the top officers there . so me and my husband went i told this officer i was ashamed to be british and i thought at least at the embassy they should have had more manner than what they had . he even said to my husband im sorry for the way u was treated arranged an appointment for the following week and my husband attended and got his settlement visa. but thats not how it should be i really felt sorry for some of the egyptian ppl cos they didt deserve to be spoken too the way they was.maybe some are just going to obtain a visa but it doest give anyone the right to speak to them the way they did what they have to remember is the embassy are serving in there country and a bit of respect should be given it does,t cost anythink to be polite to anyone. when i have been to egypt i have always been treated with respect so the same should happen to them . ok we have many flooding our country at the minute but its not there faults the goverment here are so slack. yet when one of us marry a egyptian guy he has hell trying to be able to be with his wife.
Posts: 154 | From: somewhere in the uk | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by south_london_male: Notslepless.: I wil go with you and agree that the staff there are Egyptians( despite the majority are not ) but the embassador , counsleer..etc get unlimted complain about the way they treat people so why on earth do they keep them? why they do not ask them to change? also where in embassy you can find information desk telling people why they have been refused ? also do you think those egypotian staff will risk their job and treat other egyptians in bad way unless they have the support from their boss? it is easy to figurethat out .. you do not have to be very smart .. also tell me why the high cost of the UK /Singen /USA VISA what sort of adminstration work it needs? and what other hard work it needs more than the egyptian VISA? unless they use golden stamp and use diamond paper!! or may be As Exiled said the cost of the Budwiser they drink to finish the visa..opps I mean to decline the visa in most cases
From personal knowledge their is a clipboard criteria according to visa type.
Business visa: does the applicant have the cash, knowledge to succeed, and a business plan/strategy.
Education visa: a short list of colleges which have transferable credits by the necessary accreditation, degree major will this visa seeking student graduate and contribute to the economy when the citizens and residents have not.
Tourism visa: will the applicant return to his nation at the end of his vacation. This is the most applied for and the majority of applicants who receive this visa don't go home again.
Naturally the merits of each applicant must be verified, which only Egyptian foreign service workers and the security apparatus can verify. If they don't complete the necessary background checks or find something that prohibits the applicant being accepted the end result is your own making.
Now all fine and good about the veiled woman professional who was turned down for a visa by france after being invited to a seminar. That's just plain evil of the french.
Whether you like it or not all these visa application costs pay for the work needed to be completed by both the foreign government and the Egyptian.
Its not for steaks and budweisers its for security of both nations.
You might consider yourself lucky. Why because a brit applying for a visa to the USA pays the same cost as an Egyptian. But due to computerized record keeping and Interpol having compatible systems to the state department only 20% of that 100% is used to process the application. For an Egyptian to have his visa application is a much messier affair, very little record keeping, character references must be in person, no computerized record keeping and Egypt won't link their immigration or justice computerized systems to the state department. Thus each Egyptian applicant costs several times more than a British applicant.
Now the TV shows in July and August didn't raise those concerns and limitations now did it?
Lastly keep in mind the amount of western usernames on ES that have been through the process of applying for spousal petitions with immigration. We must hire lawyers and call our legislators for help. It costs us more than $100 for the intial paperwork and western usernames' spouses get refused too with no refunds. Policies and laws on Egyptian visa and petitions are not put in local newspapers or TV. Heck even the state department doesn't email or mail out notifications of policy or law changes. You have to go to the immigration or state department website, or make an appointment with your immigration lawyer and be charged a $200 fee.
I think losing $100 is getting off pretty lucky.
Posts: 313 | From: Between yuppies and chronics | Registered: Aug 2008
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Sir-- Re 'Unacceptable treatment' ( Al-Ahram Weekly 21-27 August), there is definitely no balance in the way Egyptians get their visas and the manner Europeans do. A European can enter and simply "buy" the entry visa at the airport for 15 euros. For an Egyptian, having a visa to the EU entails a mass of paperwork, bank account statements as well as guarantees. Are EU embassies treating Egyptians unfairly? I don't think so. The process might be complicated but it's straightforward and clear. There is little manoeuvring an EU embassy official can do to deny a visa if documentation is correct and complete.
The Schengen visa constitutes 25 countries today, and many people "shop" around trying to see cracks in the system and see which embassy is the easiest to trick, not knowing that the News SYSII has all shared data and information across the entire EU and Switzerland. I do not want to imply that any Egyptian applying for an EU visa is trying to go with an ulterior motive, but sadly we have to look at the reality of the day and that sums up the situation in economy terms.
Europeans are in large measure tourists and they come helping the economy spending their euros. I doubt that anyone will arrive to the shores of the land of Egypt to seek illegal employment or asylum. Given the official statistics, Egypt, after Iran and Pakistan, holds for the European Union the most number of forgeries, attempts at cutting the system and definitely trying to work, or as an asylum seeker, when travelling on the basis of a tourist visa.
Do Egyptians feel that they are badly treated? I guess they do, but Europeans never were "too warm" or like Egyptians who like to be "friends" from the first encounter. It might seem rude to Egyptians but from a European point of view, you are a visa applicant. Their process is emotions-free.
posted
This was my favorite, when I used to live in the states, my brother used to say it's made from Mexican piss but thank god no more., now I drink Briell
quote:Originally posted by Exiled: Now i am craving an iced cold Corona with a lemon
posted
I read that few month ago in the newspaper, and have heard that a minster wanted to travel to european country the embassy told him to wait for 2 weeks for the visa.
quote:Originally posted by south_london_male: Slepless: you got me wrong ,, I did not say the governemnt reacted because VIPS been treated badly ,, I said including .. in fact all the VIPS who mentioned their stories and unhappy experince they mentioned that happend them more than a year or 2 ago .. and this why they boycot europe ,, and they do not go there any more,, and they prefer to spend the monet in EGypt rather than in countries which does not give them enough respect ,, the reaction came because very high volume of complains from normal egyptian citizens,, and the foreign minstery did not react at once they kept contacting the embassies for very long time and at the end they had to call the embassadors and give them final warning .. all of these news and actions were on all the media in Egypt as I have seen it while I am here in UK .. the only poroblme not many forign people in EGypt follow or catchthe righ news,, and do not worry they wil not look foolish even if they back down ,, as it is very normal for many goevrnnment to tight or rleax it is rules from time to time ,, including your government ,, one day they can be with Iraq and another day can be aganist .. one day supporting SADAM and another day aganist andthe third day is with Iraqi people ,, my dear when it comes to politics then you do noit use the word foolish ,, otherwise you can call all the british government and the british poeoiple are stupied and foolish ,, few years ago they were kiilling germans ,, now they are friends to germany
quote:Originally posted by karim: I read that few month ago in the newspaper, and have heard that a minster wanted to travel to european country the embassy told him to wait for 2 weeks for the visa.
quote:Originally posted by south_london_male: Slepless: you got me wrong ,, I did not say the governemnt reacted because VIPS been treated badly ,, I said including .. in fact all the VIPS who mentioned their stories and unhappy experince they mentioned that happend them more than a year or 2 ago .. and this why they boycot europe ,, and they do not go there any more,, and they prefer to spend the monet in EGypt rather than in countries which does not give them enough respect ,, the reaction came because very high volume of complains from normal egyptian citizens,, and the foreign minstery did not react at once they kept contacting the embassies for very long time and at the end they had to call the embassadors and give them final warning .. all of these news and actions were on all the media in Egypt as I have seen it while I am here in UK .. the only poroblme not many forign people in EGypt follow or catchthe righ news,, and do not worry they wil not look foolish even if they back down ,, as it is very normal for many goevrnnment to tight or rleax it is rules from time to time ,, including your government ,, one day they can be with Iraq and another day can be aganist .. one day supporting SADAM and another day aganist andthe third day is with Iraqi people ,, my dear when it comes to politics then you do noit use the word foolish ,, otherwise you can call all the british government and the british poeoiple are stupied and foolish ,, few years ago they were kiilling germans ,, now they are friends to germany
If these VIPs are traveling in a group, some of the others might not have such an easy transactions in the visa process.
When my ex came here to the USA, he came with a friend on the same visa type. Both were held up for several weeks because the friend didn't have a birth certificate on file and his parent's marriage wasn't registered at state level.
Funny how this guy got so far in life without the most basic documents on file. I am sure his parents/grandparents filed all the right documents and stood in queue, got the stamps.
Due to the war with Israel and many documents being stored and processed in Alex or the north shore, let alone Sadat's people trying to root out 'bad guys' via a paper trail loads of these documents which were filed and processed in good faith are lost.
I know USAid wanted to help Egypt state level services adopt an electronic system, but microfische is as far as they got.
Thus making checks tiresome and costly.
Posts: 313 | From: Between yuppies and chronics | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by karim: This was my favorite, when I used to live in the states, my brother used to say it's made from Mexican piss but thank god no more., now I drink Briell
Everyone know budweiser would rather have their employee's ****** removed enmasse than have a mexican on the production line.
No that was good old fashioned redneck of german/irish descent piss in those vats.
Posts: 313 | From: Between yuppies and chronics | Registered: Aug 2008
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