quote:Originally posted by $sonomod$: [QUOTE]Originally posted by 'Shahrazat: Ahmed, you shouldn't try to make people convince about that. It is confirmed and agreed by all Islam scholars that Muslim women cannot marry a non-Muslim (Budhist, Hindu, Christian, Jewish or whatever).. We can't re-write the religion.
There are reasons for that. One of them is.. you know.. circumsion matter
in otherwords its a fatwa ruling not an actual surah or hadith.
opinions are not facts, why do "believers" allow humans to reinterpret God's law?
when I use the term "believers" I am refering to people of the book.
Sono, there are surahs about that matter and Ahmed posted them. And all Islam scholars have same comment about those surahs; a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man. We cannot live the religion according to our own comments. Imagine what will happen if we do like that.
quote:Being an Islam scholar is a proffession like being a doctor. People spend their whole life for understanding the religion like a doctor who devotes his life to his profession. Can we make a surgery? Of course no... So we cannot make comments about the surahs as we like. But somebody needs to do that as some verses are not %100 clear and this is Islam scholars duty.
unless the fatwa is coming from an actual organization with historic credibility like "Al-Azhar" then the fatwa's are given by street preachers, rogue neighborhood mullahs, or Sheik's ordained by ARAB Satellite Networks.
Not all religious scholars are legitimately equal. Not all spend their entire life actually studying Quranic sciences.
quote:The biggest mistake we are doing is looking for 100% logic in religions. This is wrong. So what is the logic of believing in Allah and believing that a virgin can give a birth? Did anybody see Allah or has anybody given birth without having sex with a man?? So far no ...
You know there are 2 kinds of people. Obedients of Allah and people who say they have logic.
Yeah welcome to the slipperly slope which I prefer to leave alone. Laws have to be logical.
Why on earth would you compare the "virgin birth" to what faith a guy has to be to marry a Muslimah? Now thats really out of the ball park weird.
lets see here actual surah:
verse 2:220
"And do not marry Al-Mushrikdt (idolatresses, etc.) till they believe (worship Allah Alone). And indeed a slave woman who believes is better than a (free) Mushrikah (idolatress), even though she pleases you. And give not (your daughters) in marriage to AI-Mushrikiinltl till they believe (in Allah Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik (idolater), even though he pleases you"
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we've all seen this one before, but according to you and Ahmad Christians are unbelievers and idolaters, and so therefore muslim men are not allowed to marry christian women either.
Sounds like a fatwa from Osama bin laden and sayyid qutb.
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are you serious? all fatwas are based on the Surahs and the hadiths? based or we talking Quranically Scientically correct according to the Surahs and STRONG hadiths?
of course I am serious ,Professors of Islam do not give opinions based on what they like and they do not like ,it is about correct and sound Hadith and Quran. the Phrase "strong Hadith " does not mean it must be SAHIH in Al_Bukhary,there are others who are in Al_Termzy ..which are Also Sahih and some others which is Hasan but they corrected it and made it Sahiha and there are Ahad which are individual hadith with only one Isnad (one narrator only) abd there is morsal ... only weak Hadith can not be used in discussions
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by $sonomod$: [QUOTE]Originally posted by 'Shahrazat: Ahmed, you shouldn't try to make people convince about that. It is confirmed and agreed by all Islam scholars that Muslim women cannot marry a non-Muslim (Budhist, Hindu, Christian, Jewish or whatever).. We can't re-write the religion.
There are reasons for that. One of them is.. you know.. circumsion matter
in otherwords its a fatwa ruling not an actual surah or hadith.
opinions are not facts, why do "believers" allow humans to reinterpret God's law?
when I use the term "believers" I am refering to people of the book.
Sono, there are surahs about that matter and Ahmed posted them. And all Islam scholars have same comment about those surahs; a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man. We cannot live the religion according to our own comments. Imagine what will happen if we do like that.
quote:Being an Islam scholar is a proffession like being a doctor. People spend their whole life for understanding the religion like a doctor who devotes his life to his profession. Can we make a surgery? Of course no... So we cannot make comments about the surahs as we like. But somebody needs to do that as some verses are not %100 clear and this is Islam scholars duty.
unless the fatwa is coming from an actual organization with historic credibility like "Al-Azhar" then the fatwa's are given by street preachers, rogue neighborhood mullahs, or Sheik's ordained by ARAB Satellite Networks.
Not all religious scholars are legitimately equal. Not all spend their entire life actually studying Quranic sciences.
quote:The biggest mistake we are doing is looking for 100% logic in religions. This is wrong. So what is the logic of believing in Allah and believing that a virgin can give a birth? Did anybody see Allah or has anybody given birth without having sex with a man?? So far no ...
You know there are 2 kinds of people. Obedients of Allah and people who say they have logic.
Yeah welcome to the slipperly slope which I prefer to leave alone. Laws have to be logical.
Why on earth would you compare the "virgin birth" to what faith a guy has to be to marry a Muslimah? Now thats really out of the ball park weird.
lets see here actual surah:
verse 2:220
"And do not marry Al-Mushrikdt (idolatresses, etc.) till they believe (worship Allah Alone). And indeed a slave woman who believes is better than a (free) Mushrikah (idolatress), even though she pleases you. And give not (your daughters) in marriage to AI-Mushrikiinltl till they believe (in Allah Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik (idolater), even though he pleases you"
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we've all seen this one before, but according to you and Ahmad Christians are unbelievers and idolaters, and so therefore muslim men are not allowed to marry christian women either.
Sounds like a fatwa from Osama bin laden and sayyid qutb.
3-verse 5:5
"Made lawful to you this day are At-Tayyibat [all kinds of Haltil (lawful) foods, which Allah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits). The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. ( Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from before your time when you have given their due Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girlfriends. And whosoever disbelieves in Faith [Le. in the Oneness of Allah and in all the other Articles of Faith i.e. His (Allah's) Angels, His Holy Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and AI-Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], then fruitless is his work; and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers. "
yeah but within the Quranic Arabic there is little use of the female pronouns and diadic punctuation let alone vowels are completely absent. Like Aramaic for the bible, when the scriptures note that the 10 commandments are for all believing men that includes women. God intended his/her law/commandments for all humankind not just "menkind" but due to the use of gender pronouns or lack thereof its a loophole only unbelieving manipulating twits prefer to mangle.
abo-talha went to engage om Salim she was msulim he was not ,she told him"you are atheist and i am muslim and I AM NOT PERMITTED TO MAARRY YOU,so if you want to marry me then you must convert to Islam " and indeed he converted and became on of the companions
please the source of the hadith, who wrote it down and how long after the Prophet (PBUH) died before this hadith was uttered.
Besides Umm Salim is not the Prophet, she is just a woman who used this as an excuse to get what she wanted. Never heard of this before.
BESIDES A HADITH IS A RECORDED SAYING OF THE PROPHET MOHAMED BY A FIRST HAND WITNESS WHO WAS THERE WHEN HE ACTUALLY STATED THOSE EXACT WORDS
====================================================== 4-the prophets daughter were married to non-muslims and when allah revealed him quran,he made their husband divorce them
again who was the source of the hadith? Likewise the ruling for the wives/daughters of the Prophet does not apply to all Muslimahs. God's law is different for the women who live with the Prophet.
Wasn't born yesterday, my ex's father studied at Al-Azhar. Who in your family studied at Al-azhar let alone has taken 8 Eid-al Fitr pilgrimages?
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5- when it comes to marriage,You are muslim or not muslim ,in islam nothing in between ,so the verses and hadith above are sufficient to prohibit this kind of marriage
not an actual hadith its just your opinion.
Come one share something real and factual here. Sick and tired of this kindergarten crap.
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quote:Originally posted by $sonomod$: we've all seen this one before, but according to you and Ahmad Christians are unbelievers and idolaters, and so therefore muslim men are not allowed to marry christian women either.
firstit is not according me nor shah it is according to all muslim scholars all the times and there is obvious misunderstandifnto the word believrs and Mushrekeen and ..... and you talk about one verse where are the others and Hadith I posted?!!
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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are you serious? all fatwas are based on the Surahs and the hadiths? based or we talking Quranically Scientically correct according to the Surahs and STRONG hadiths?
of course I am serious ,Professors of Islam do not give opinions based on what they like and they do not like ,it is about correct and sound Hadith and Quran. the Phrase "strong Hadith " does not mean it must be SAHIH in Al_Bukhary,there are others who are in Al_Termzy ..which are Also Sahih and some others which is Hasan but they corrected it and made it Sahiha and there are Ahad which are individual hadith with only one Isnad (one narrator only) abd there is morsal ... only weak Hadith can not be used in discussions
Okay give me some real documentation on when the Prophet had stated these sayings or one of his companions and when was it first written down.
Use true SCIENTIFIC historical documentation that has been agreed upon by the Sunni Ulema just 150 years after the Prophet had died. There was a very early agreed upon scientific method in recording Hadiths, depending on which Juriprudence method you believe in. THis sounds like the kind of Hadith that would be acceptable in backwater Shia society.
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quote:Originally posted by $sonomod$: we've all seen this one before, but according to you and Ahmad Christians are unbelievers and idolaters, and so therefore muslim men are not allowed to marry christian women either.
firstit is not according me nor shah it is according to all muslim scholars all the times and there is obvious misunderstandifnto the word believrs and Mushrekeen and ..... and you talk about one verse where are the others and Hadith I posted?!!
Noper you just forget, think anti-semetically and it will come back to you. Remember Jew haters need to focus on their prepared and regirgitated hate from the Satellite TV mullahs.
you know the guys with the sheets over their heads, bad teeth, long nails who advocate men hitting their wives every week.
[what you stated on the first page of this thread]"And do not marry Al-Mushrikdt (idolatresses, etc.) till they believe (worship Allah Alone). And indeed a slave woman who believes is better than a (free) Mushrikah (idolatress), even though she pleases you. And give not (your daughters) in marriage to AI-Mushrikiinltl till they believe (in Allah Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik (idolater), even though he pleases you"
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
now the only possiblity is jews but since they hate us so much as Quran tells us then how could a muslim be married to somebody who disrespect her faith? [/quote now its all coming back to you now.....]
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so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
Posts: 514 | Registered: Jul 2009
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quote:Originally posted by 'Shahrazat: There are reasons for that. One of them is.. you know.. circumsion matter
You mean a Muslim woman is not allowed to marry an uncircumcised man?
quote:Originally posted by 'Shahrazat: And all Islam scholars have same comment about those surahs; a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man.
That is not quite true, there are Muslim scholars who say it is allowed, and, yes, it happens in the West all the time. I posted several texts regardig this issue on here before.
I suggest reading Khaled Abou el Fadl's fatwa on the issue. He gives a very detailled and sound examination of the issue:
quote:so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
Loool, this remind me of something else Sono Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by 'Shahrazat: [qb] There are reasons for that. One of them is.. you know.. circumsion matter
You mean a Muslim woman is not allowed to marry an uncircumcised man?
yeah a naturally penile sensitive man would need an equally receptive woman.
Remember how last december I screwed that german guy, yeah he was a challenged to keep up with. I informed you about this on EM. I had difficult with a sex term he used.
Just sit back and remember the last uncut guy you entertained Dalia. Freaking exhausting, but so worth it!
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posted
Originally posted by *Dalia*: You mean a Muslim woman is not allowed to marry an uncircumcised man?
Yes.. If a Muslim woman wants to get married to a non_Muslim, first he should revert and then should be circumcised, even if he is 80 years old
Originally posted by *Dalia*: That is not quite true, there are Muslim scholars who say it is allowed, and, yes, it happens in the West all the time. I posted several texts regardig this issue on here before.
And there are scholars who say porn and oral sex don't make your fasting invalid
EDIT : ACTUALY THAT CIRCUMCISION PART WAS KIND OF A JOKE Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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Is the Qurânic prohibition of marriage to unbelievers applicable to all non-Muslims? More specifically are Muslim women only allowed to marry Muslim men? Perhaps not.
Firstly - the Qur'ân describes different types of people, there are for example:
Believers
Believers before the time of the Prophet Muhammad (saw): Surah al-I-Imran 3:52, 67
Muslims: Surah al-Hajj 22:78
Faithful People of the Book: Surah al-Ma'idah 5:6; Surah al-Muddaththir 74:31
Those who believe in Allah (swt), the Last Day & do good deeds: Surah al-Baqarah 2:62; Surah al-Ma'idah 5:72
Unbelievers
Unfaithful People of the Book: Surah al-Bayyinah 98:1, 6; Surah al-Hashr 59:2
Hypocrites (those who called themselves Muslims but secretly disbelieve): Surah al-Munafiqun 63:1; Surah al-Ahzab 33:1
If we understand Islam as more than one specific religious dispensation, instead the entire body of Allah's (swt) revelation to the cosmos, then we can say that there are those who are generically muslim who may not necessarily follow the specific sharî'ah as we know it from Prophet Muhammad (saw). The Qur'ân says that *any* (not just "Muslims") who believe in Allah (swt), believe in the concept of being held accountable for one's actions, and do good works "shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve" (Sûrah al-Baqarah 2:62; Sûrah al-Ma'idah 5:72).
The Qur'ân points to this idea of a 'meta-religion' in that it describes all of Allah's (swt) revelatory messages to humanity have been part of the one deen. Abraham (saw) was neither a "Jew" nor a "Christian" but one who submitted himself to Allah (swt).
In regard to marriage, the Qur'ân (Sûrah al-Baqarâh 2:221) says that Muslim men and women may not marry those of the second category - the unbelievers (al-mushrikaat & al-mushrikiin). However the Qur'an does say that chaste women from the People of the Book are lawful.
Now there is a general principle that unless something is specifically negatively qualified for women (or simply doesn't make sense), laws are understood to be applicable for women as well as for men mutatis mutandis. In this case there is no negative qualifier for Muslim women against marrying men from the People of the Book.
Put another way the Qur'an does not say that Muslim women may *not* marry men from the People of the Book. (The verse about not marrying unbelieving men does not apply because that verse applies specifically to the category of al-mushrikiin.)
But even having said that, as long as person fits into the first broad category of 'believer' then he or she is halal for a Muslim or Muslimah. It is the unbelievers who are forbidden to both men and women.
So what is the definition of an "unbeliever"? The Qur'an paints a picture of a person in *active* rebellion against Allah (swt).
* They worship false gods: Surah al-Anbiyya 21:98
* Plot and plan against the Muslims: Surah al-Anfal 8:30
* Spend their wealth hindering people from the path of Allah (swt): Surah al-Anfal 8:36
* Protect one another against the Muslims: Surah al-Anfal 8:73
* Fight against the Muslims: Surah an-Nisa 4:101-2
* Dispute about the signs of Allah (swt): Surah al-Mu'min 40:4
* Detest the call of Allah (swt): Surah al-Mu'min 40:14
* Ridicule the Prophet (saw): Surah al-Anbiyya 21:36
* Regard the Qur'an as lies and sorcery: Surah al-Ahqaf 46:7; Surah Saba 34:43
* Scoff at the idea of the Hour: Surah Saba 34:3, 7; Surah at-Taghabun 64:7
* Reject all of Allah's (swt) scripture: Surah Saba 34:31
* Dispute with vain arguments in order to weaken truth: Surah al-Kahf 18:56
* Revel in self-glory and separatism: Surah Suad 38:2
* Discount the divine nature of revelation: Surah al-An'am 6:25
* Persecute the Prophets (saw): Surah Ibrahim 14:13
* Persist in rejecting truth: Surah al-Buruj 85:19
* Deny spiritual existence - the Hereafter: Surah Qaf 50:2, 12; Surah an-Naml 27:67
However even if a Muslim woman is married to a mushrik, then she is not required to divorce him as evidenced by the situation regarding the Prophet's (saw) daughter Zaynab who was married to an unbeliever who fought against the Muslims at the Battle of Badr. Whilst the Prophet (saw) asked that Zaynab return to Medina, the marriage was not dissolved and when the husband did finally accept Islam they resumed cohabitation.
The Qur'an narrates the principle that it is not fitting to be married to a person who is in active rebellion and hatred towards the Beloved Creator – whether they are wife or husband, male or female is beside the point.
Secondly, the overarching principle of the Qur'an is the equality of women and men. Recognising however that in some cultures full equality is unachievable (as in 7th century Arabia) the Qur'an then provides a certain number of laws that provide a pattern in situations where women cannot achieve full equality (and thus are dependent on their husbands). This is similar to the concept that the spirit of the Qur'an preaches abolition of slavery but recognises and provides for those cultures which cannot achieve abolition straight away.
If a Muslim woman is in a situation where she can achieve equality then she can stipulate this in her marriage contract. As such she no longer is required to be dependent on her husband and can claim full equal rights. And Allah (swt) knows best.
quote:Originally posted by 'Shahrazat: And there are scholars who say porn and oral sex don't make your fasting invalid
And there are scholars who say that oral sex is haram. And famous scholar Yussuf al-Qaradawi describes it as a "disgusting Western practice, resulting from Westerners' habit of "stripping naked during sexual intercourse". He also describes women's genitalia as "ordinarily disgusting to man."
Also:
Dr. Sabri `Abdul Ra’ouf, professor of Islamic Comparative Jurisprudence, at Al-Azhar Univ. (...) also gives support to the view of Sheikh Al-Qaradawi that oral sex or kissing private parts of the spouse is something viewed disgusting to Muslims, but if the aim is just kissing (without having constant indulgence in it) it's not sinful to do that, but people of high morality normally keep away from that, as not to give in to imitating non-Muslims.”
In conclusion, it has become clear now that oral sex is not prohibited, but it is not the normal choice for committed Muslims and Muslimahs. That's, despite that oral sex is not Haram, it is completely disgusting and does not conform to the pure taste and decency of a Muslim personality.
quote:Originally posted by mylife: Have you ever thought us western sluts...lie and sleep with egyptian man....because we can....you are all so easy targets....flash a bit of shoulder and you are all hooked ...
That's what I've been saying all along, we know your slutty ways and we know you are not trustworthy. That's why we take what we want from you then dump you.
We too know your slutty men ways....thats why it is soooo easy for us to....er and it is not the woman that always get dumped....
you talk about trustworthy is not that the kettle calling the pot black !!!!!
quote:Originally posted by mylife: so it is ok for you to dip your dick in who ever lets you.....then you go to the egyptian woman who you care about so much.....and dip it in her....not thinking that she is also sleeping with all the westerns sluts you have but hey as long as she is clean and pure you dont mind....hope you use condoms.....can really understand how you love and respect...your fellow women....cover her up...get her pregnant....keep her at home with kids and family.....while you go out and look at western sluts.....damn....now i know why i am single....i have a opinion and no man will ever stop me having one......
No no no......that is cheating. I did not say sleep with western sluts while married. That is what western men do not Egyptian men. We have sex with western women to satisfy our urge but when we meet the Egyptian woman we're going to marry, that's it, no more western sluts. period.
Dont you see though....your egyptian wife will be pure like the driven snow for you.....while you will be the dirty slushy ice....tarred and tainted from the untrustworthy western slut....were is that being good and caring to your wife....but your wife is still sleeping with all your past partners as soon as you enter her.....or does praying to allah.....clean you and make it right.... i just feel sorry for the egyptian women having to put up and live with double standards....from their men....(not all men as i know some people here have good marriages).....
anyway i think you test drive us.....so we can teach you how to be a good lover....
Posts: 312 | From: my world | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: And there are scholars who say that oral sex is haram. And famous scholar Yussuf al-Qaradawi describes it as a "disgusting Western practice, resulting from Westerners' habit of "stripping naked during sexual intercourse". He also describes women's genitalia as "ordinarily disgusting to man."
Also:
Dr. Sabri `Abdul Ra’ouf, professor of Islamic Comparative Jurisprudence, at Al-Azhar Univ. (...) also gives support to the view of Sheikh Al-Qaradawi that oral sex or kissing private parts of the spouse is something viewed disgusting to Muslims, but if the aim is just kissing (without having constant indulgence in it) it's not sinful to do that, but people of high morality normally keep away from that, as not to give in to imitating non-Muslims.”
In conclusion, it has become clear now that oral sex is not prohibited, but it is not the normal choice for committed Muslims and Muslimahs. That's, despite that oral sex is not Haram, it is completely disgusting and does not conform to the pure taste and decency of a Muslim personality.
I wish I could ask those men to their wives Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: Dr. Sabri `Abdul Ra’ouf, professor of Islamic Comparative Jurisprudence
this man is excellent
What I posted above is anything but "excellent". Oral sex completely disgusting and not suitable for a "decent Muslim"?
quote: I wish I could ask those men to their wives
I feel really sorry for those men's wives. Imagine being married to a guy who thinks your private parts are "disgusting". Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: Professors of Islam do not give opinions based on what they like and they do not like ,it is about correct and sound Hadith and Quran.
LOL. Do tell me which verse or hadith says that women's private parts are disgusting.
We are all created by God, how dare those scholars insult God's creation like that?
Fatwas like the above mentioned are definitely based on the authors' personal opinions and preconceptions.
Really ... grumpy old men with a distorted attitude about sexuality and women shouldn't issue fatwas. Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Originally posted by *Dalia*: Really ... grumpy old men with a distorted attitude about sexuality and women shouldn't issue fatwas.
I like genatilia and think they're God's gift to mankind..I'm a dirty old man, and sometimes 'grumpy' too. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: Oral sex completely disgusting and not suitable for a "decent Muslim
you have to differntiate between Fatwa and personal thought ,it is your problem that you want Islam as you wish ,I my self consider oral sex is damn disgusting and I can tell you that most people (based on opinions of my friends and connections) never do that ,they may watch it ,but it is so weird
Anyone who disagree to you opinion which is based solely on articles from the internet Allah knows who wrote it and you never dove into the heart of the religion ,as far as I see here no one of those who depate or talk (nonmuslim) seem to have read an Arabic version of the Al-Aqiad,Al-Sharia,Al-TAwheed and I think this you never tried to authenticate what you read
for the QaradAWY PART,you psted an article that qoutes him but better go and find what exactly he said ,I am not saying that the article is wrong but better find an article written by him or in his books to argue about since as far as I see you only use articles and I do not know if this is the true thing you were tought in school or uni!
Luck with your articles
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: you have to differntiate between Fatwa and personal thought
What I quoted was part of a fatwa.
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I my self consider oral sex is damn disgusting
That's your personal opinion. But there is no religious basis for that whatsoever.
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I can tell you that most people (based on opinions of my friends and connections) never do that
So you're saying the majority of Muslims don't practice oral sex based on what your friends tell you?
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: they may watch it
Your friends are watching other people having sex?
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: Anyone who disagree to you opinion which is based solely on articles from the internet Allah knows who wrote it
you psted an article that qoutes him but better go and find what exactly he said
How in the world did you come up with this? Your above statement is absolutely not true.
I did not quote from "some article from the internet" about Qaradawi, I quoted from an official fatwa from Islamonline, Yussuf al-Qaradawi's website, and I supplied the link to it. You should have checked it out before jumping at me.
I also have "The Lawful and the Prohibited" which is written by Qaradawi himself, and I've read it several times. All my opinions about him are based on his own words and writings, not on something somebody else said about him.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by mylife: [QUOTE]Originally posted by mylife: [QUOTE]Originally posted by messenger: [qb] We just want to protect you from them. You may think they're kinder or whatever. But the reality is western men are not family oriented and always cheat on their wives. Are you going out with a western man, I hope not
maybe you want to protect their virginity more like...we cannot have a cheating...lying...no good western man touching you.....you must have a cheating...lying....i am always right....no good egyptian man instead....touching you....
Are you going out with a western woman messenger...i hope not
We only cheat and lie to western women because they don't matter but with Egyptian women they we are completely different. Western women are sluts, and we like that but not for marriage.
Sometimes you talk a lot of sense but this statement is just completely stupid. Many western men dont cheat on their wives, and many western women dont cheat on their husbands. This is a narrow minded view of western people, obtained by watching too much TV.
There are western men and women that have been married for 50 years and not cheated.
Equally there are many egyptian men AND women that cheat on their spouses. Cheating is not about nationality, its about personality.
Treating someone badly because they are a certain nationality is absolutely disgusting, its racist and its ignorant. If thats what you claim to be then good luck to you in your life because what goes around comes around no matter what religion you CLAIM to be.
Posts: 140 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: of course I can give you more that 3 billion reasons to ban this kind of marriage 1-marriage depends on afffection and compassion ,so how this will be fullified with someone who denys her religion? The jews as quran tells us hate us so much (this is apparent from what happens today in palestine) and the others christians ,...do not beleive in our religion so the kids will grow up in a non Islamic climate which is refused in Islam
2- verse 2:220
"And do not marry Al-Mushrikdt (idolatresses, etc.) till they believe (worship Allah Alone). And indeed a slave woman who believes is better than a (free) Mushrikah (idolatress), even though she pleases you. And give not (your daughters) in marriage to AI-Mushrikiinltl till they believe (in Allah Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik (idolater), even though he pleases you"
so this is explicit order not to marry anyone who is atheist ,agnostic or even christian because they think jesus is god so this is called Sherk.the word Muskrek means those who worship others but also worship Allah
here you are saying that verse gives an explicit order not to marry christians. It is actually 2:221 not 2:220 and it is telling MEN not to marry unbelieving women and for women not to marry unbelievers. Christians and Jews ARE believers according to Quran, but YOU are saying its an order NOT to marry christians, ok??
002.221 YUSUFALI: Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.
quote:now the only possiblity is jews but since they hate us so much as Quran tells us then how could a muslim be married to somebody who disrespect her faith?
3-verse 5:5
"Made lawful to you this day are At-Tayyibat [all kinds of Haltil (lawful) foods, which Allah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits). The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. ( Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from before your time when you have given their due Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girlfriends. And whosoever disbelieves in Faith [Le. in the Oneness of Allah and in all the other Articles of Faith i.e. His (Allah's) Angels, His Holy Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and AI-Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], then fruitless is his work; and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers. "
in the verse Allah permitted muslim men to marry christians and jews but did not mention the other part about muslim woman is not mentioned so if it were permitted Allah would have mentioned it because ,the verse was revealed to the prophet when the companions asked him
Now THAT is where you contradict yourself Akmad! above you claimed that verse meant christians and the verse was clearly directed at men, and now you say that men CAN marry christians even after saying they are idolators! You dont know what you are talking about! Allah also said the food of a jew or christian is halal for a muslim, is He going to say that if they are NOT believers??
quote:3-now let me give you some hadith about it
abo-talha went to engage om Salim she was msulim he was not ,she told him"you are atheist and i am muslim and I AM NOT PERMITTED TO MAARRY YOU,so if you want to marry me then you must convert to Islam " and indeed he converted and became on of the companions
4-the prophets daughter were married to non-muslims and when allah revealed him quran,he made their husband divorce them
5- when it comes to marriage,You are muslim or not muslim ,in islam nothing in between ,so the verses and hadith above are sufficient to prohibit this kind of marriage
no references to your nice little set of hadith perfectly designed to add to your contradictions, they contradict the verses in Quran you quoted and perfect for the muslim male agenda!
Akmad you seem to have missed where you have contradicted yourself, thought I would post it again for you Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Abortion as in many other countries is a matter of much controversy in Egypt. Laws and religion have a lot to say about it. The advocates of abortion in Egypt say that the woman has the right to abort if she is a rape victim, while others argue that the unborn child had the right to live in any circumstances.
Abortion is prohibited by law, unless the woman's life is threatened. About 20,000 Egyptian women and girls are raped annually, prompting MP Mohamed Khalil Koweita to submit a proposal to the People's Assembly (the lower house of the Parliament) for amending Article 29 of the Penal Code, which would allow rape victims to choose abortion. "Although rape is a capital offence, the Penal Code ignores the sufferings of the victim, especially if she falls pregnant. Former Egyptian Grand Mufti, Nasr Farid Wassel, sympathised with the victims and their families, as he decreed that a rape victim should have an abortion before her unborn child is 120 days old," Koweita explained.“Any girl or woman, who has been raped, has the right in Islam to have an abortion at any time, and it is not a sin,” Egypt's top Muslim cleric, Mohamed Sayyed Tantawi, who is head of Al-Azhar, the world's most respected and influential Sunni Muslim institution, has told the local press recently.Some may argue the above doesn't target the crime of rape, but rather its after-effects. Women subjected to sexual abuse can have an abortion in order to maintain their 'social standing' in their community, but the pregnancy should be terminated at the earliest possible time. Fawziya Abdel Sattar, a professor of criminal law, is opposed to this, arguing that "endorsing the right to abortion in cases of rape has several risks”. According to her, this bill deals with the aftermath of the crime, but not the crime itself. Legalising abortion for rape victims may well encourage girls to engage in illicit affairs. “If they got pregnant, they'd exploit the code and claim they were raped.”Christianity is very clear about this. Anba Bassanti, Archbishop of Helwan in southern Cairo, says Christianity totally rejects abortion whether pregnancy is the result of licit or illicit sexual relations. The only possible condition for abortion is if the pregnancy represents a threat to the life of the mother.Law or no law, abortion is flourishing in Egypt at clinics that work in secret. They are very popular among women who engage in illicit relations.Surprisingly, it's very easy to have an abortion: all the mother need to do is book an appointment, like going to the dentist's or the hairdresser's. All the clinics want is the cash. Akher Sa'a magazine recently published an article about one of these clinics, although it declined to give its name. "The clinic is well-furnished and the floors covered in marble. A young girl sits in the waiting room trembling and sweating. An old man sits beside her. He looks very nervous and keeps asking the nurse when he can talk to the doctor," the magazine reported.The girl shamefully described how she'd fallen in love with a university colleague. He loved her, although she was fat and freckled. The only problem was that he was poor and her rich businessman father sneered at him and told him to get lost, when the young man asked for the hand of his daughter in marriage.The young lady became pregnant and then her wealthy father, with LE10,000 (about $1,820) in his pocket, took her to the clinic to have an abortion. There are many other stories like this one. If a man does not recognise his son or daughter, the law does not force him to make his child carry his name, which makes the mother even more of a disgrace in society. Another dramatic story involved a 16-year-old girl who lived with her poor parents in a one-room flat. Her father was an office boy, her mother a servant. A relative came to live with them because he'd bought a kiosk round the corner. He raped the teenager and made her pregnant.
The Egyptian Gazette 17 August, 2009
THE Legislative Committee in the People's Assembly (Lower House of the Egyptian Parliament) is tackling a draft law presented by the MP Mohamed Khlail Kouita, Deputy Chairman of Foreign Relations Committee, in which he asked to issue a law requiring the use of DNA testing in paternity probation cases.Over the past few months Egyptian courts have witnessed 15,000 paternity lawsuits. There are statistics issued by different authorities to monitor the phenomenon related paternity confirmation.For example, a report released by the Integrated Care Unit, an agency affiliated to the Ministry of Health, cited that a large number of babies being left at the doors of mosques or besides garbage boxes or in the streets generally. In 1996, centres received 1504 babies, of which 122 died. In 2007, there were 1678, of which 51 died, while in 2008 the number fell to 1537 and none died. Otherwise statistics issued by the Ministry of Justice on the number of lawsuits on paternity confirmation rose in 2002 to 216 cases, in 2003 to 179 cases, and to 252 cases in 2005. Meanwhile, statistics issued by civil status courts show that there are 20,000 children looking for paternity probation, among them 15,000 children are a result of unregistered Orfi marriage, and there are 5,000 children of unknown paternity. Another study conducted by the General Department of Families, affili-ated to the Ministry of Social Solidarity, found that family courts in Egypt, during the period from september 2004 to March 2005, heard nearly 558 lawsuits of paternity confirmation raised by Egyptian women against their Arab husbands. Another study conducted in 2007 stressed that there are 270,000 Egyptian children of unknown paternity as a result of Orfi marriage and the inability of mothers to prove the paternity of their babies. Over the few past years, a number of women's and children's organisations launched a campaign calling for new laws to keep the rights of mothers and their children in paternity probation cases. They also called for DNA analysis to be included in procedures of paternity lawsuits. They urged that DNA tests should should be conducted in the government laboratories of Forensic Medicine and at the expense of the State. MP Khouita explains that his draft law has already been approved by religious authorities, noting that it is the first draft bill using the latest technology, which does not contradict the rules of Islamic jurisprudence.
It's clearly the western men Egyptian women have to be wary of. Rape. Abortion. Secret marriages. Throw-away babies. Unknown paternity. Families selling their sisters and daughters to wealthy Arabs for a summer fling.
Yep. Those western men. They sure could use a lesson in morals from Egyptian men.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: Dr. Sabri `Abdul Ra’ouf, professor of Islamic Comparative Jurisprudence
this man is excellent
What I posted above is anything but "excellent". Oral sex completely disgusting and not suitable for a "decent Muslim"?
quote: I wish I could ask those men to their wives
I feel really sorry for those men's wives. Imagine being married to a guy who thinks your private parts are "disgusting".
he probably doesnt think his male friends sexual parts are disgusting though, but of course there are no gay Muslims, just men who fook other men coz thats ok Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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he probably doesnt think his male friends sexual parts are disgusting though
Oh, you mean Ahmad was saying that a man giving oral sex to a woman is disgusting, but a woman giving oral sex to a man is not?
I rather understood his statement to mean that he finds both "damn disgusting", I might be wrong. But I'm sure he can clarify this. Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by mylife: [QUOTE]Originally posted by messenger: We just want to protect you from them. You may think they're kinder or whatever. But the reality is western men are not family oriented and always cheat on their wives. Are you going out with a western man, I hope not
maybe you want to protect their virginity more like...we cannot have a cheating...lying...no good western man touching you.....you must have a cheating...lying....i am always right....no good egyptian man instead....touching you....
Are you going out with a western woman messenger...i hope not
We only cheat and lie to western women because they don't matter but with Egyptian women they we are completely different. Western women are sluts, and we like that but not for marriage.
not all of us are sluts asshole..would u call yr mama a slut????i think not so keep yr shat straight. u should treat any woman like u would treat yr mama no matter where she is from....if my man called me a slut cas i am american well i guess he would no longer be my man.
quote:Originally posted by messenger:
quote:Originally posted by mylife:
i thought mine was different...i thought he loved my mind not my body
He doesn't love you for your mind because no one loves women for their mind. Either for the body or for making a family.
see that is where yr wrong too my egyptian loves me for my mind hopefully not my fat ass body.. but if u like women for their bodies or what ever then that would make u shallow as hell and no woman wants a dumb ass shallow unthoughtful man.
quote:Originally posted by messenger:
quote:Originally posted by *Souri*: Not like us, we want western women for their body only, but Egyptian women are for love, marriage and family. Do you understand?
Some Egyptians member here after wonder why so many “westerns women” as they call us, keep writing negative comments about Egypt. I have traveled in some other Arab country and have never been treated as a whore, as much as I have been in Egypt. Claiming that Egyptians want westerns women for their body it isn’t an insult? Or maybe just a constructive criticize about western women……..
It shouldn't be an insult. Western women are equal to western men and believe in their right and freedom to do whatever they want including having sex with men. Ask any western woman and she will tell you that she would never marry a man before getting a "test drive". Well we're test driving the whole lot
now u are right there i like to test drive anything before i commet to buying.. or marrying.but that doesnt make us sluts it makes us open minded.we can do and say what we like without the fear of jail,lashes.and outcasting from the community.makes me glad i am a westener.
Hi Tina, I want to tell that not all egyptian men think like this guy, because my brother is married to a russian woman and she is really a good person and she loves our family and we also lover, my uncle is married to american women and they love eachother and they respect eachother, i don't deny that some men want western women for their bodies but they do the same with arabic or egyptian women some want the western woman to make him travel but also others they really love and have good life and between western men and women there r the good respectable people and the bad people like the eastern men and women, good and bad exist everywhere to all nationalities, i have alot of western friends men and women and most of them r good and respectable people they r direct and honest not snakes like many - NOT ALL-egyptian men, and i repeat again the western man if he wants something from a woman he asks her directly if she says no he doesn't insist, the egyptian men will do tricks and lie to her till they get her then they say she is impolite
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by mylife: Have you ever thought us western sluts...lie and sleep with egyptian man....because we can....you are all so easy targets....flash a bit of shoulder and you are all hooked ...
That's what I've been saying all along, we know your slutty ways and we know you are not trustworthy. That's why we take what we want from you then dump you.
We too know your slutty men ways....thats why it is soooo easy for us to....er and it is not the woman that always get dumped....
you talk about trustworthy is not that the kettle calling the pot black !!!!!
quote:Originally posted by mylife: so it is ok for you to dip your dick in who ever lets you.....then you go to the egyptian woman who you care about so much.....and dip it in her....not thinking that she is also sleeping with all the westerns sluts you have but hey as long as she is clean and pure you dont mind....hope you use condoms.....can really understand how you love and respect...your fellow women....cover her up...get her pregnant....keep her at home with kids and family.....while you go out and look at western sluts.....damn....now i know why i am single....i have a opinion and no man will ever stop me having one......
No no no......that is cheating. I did not say sleep with western sluts while married. That is what western men do not Egyptian men. We have sex with western women to satisfy our urge but when we meet the Egyptian woman we're going to marry, that's it, no more western sluts. period.
Dont you see though....your egyptian wife will be pure like the driven snow for you.....while you will be the dirty slushy ice....tarred and tainted from the untrustworthy western slut....were is that being good and caring to your wife....but your wife is still sleeping with all your past partners as soon as you enter her.....or does praying to allah.....clean you and make it right.... i just feel sorry for the egyptian women having to put up and live with double standards....from their men....(not all men as i know some people here have good marriages).....
anyway i think you test drive us.....so we can teach you how to be a good lover....
What exactly is the problem, I don't understand it. Do you believe men and women are free to choose to have sex? Then what exactly is the problem? Western women have sex freely and that's fine by me. Why the double standard? You test drive men and men test drive women. Done.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: good and bad exist everywhere to all nationalities, i have alot of western friends men and women and most of them r good and respectable people they r direct and honest not snakes like many - NOT ALL-egyptian men, and i repeat again the western man if he wants something from a woman he asks her directly if she says no he doesn't insist, the egyptian men will do tricks and lie to her till they get her then they say she is impolite
Allow me to simplify it for you. Part one: Western men do not lie to get women in bed because they don't have to. Sex is expected and freely granted based on attraction not love.
On the other hand, Egyptian men will never have sex from and Egyptian woman unless they lie. It is a necessity.
Part two:
Unlike western men who don't think much of religion and sex in the same context, Egyptian-Muslim men live their lives knowing that having sex outside of marriage is 7aram. While many are able to control their urge,the vast majority in-fact, some are weak and engage in sexual activities. But they are alway aware of the fact that it is 7aram for them and for Egyptian-Muslim women. So when we have sex with an Egyptian woman we know that we both did something 7aram. In that case the Egyptian women is acted just as slutty as western one.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: and i repeat again the western man if he wants something from a woman he asks her directly if she says no he doesn't insist, the egyptian men will do tricks and lie to her till they get her then they say she is impolite
And believe me when I tell you that part is completely false.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by stayingput: Men can't make it haram if God didn't.
The Qu'ran is MUTE about who women can marry; there are no rules. However, it's clear who men can marry. You can't say that because God made the rules for men they also apply to women.
يا جماعة انتوا محيرين نفسكوا ليه ما تفتحوا كتاب القرآن و تقروا فيه سورة البقرة الاية 221 و لا تنكحوا المشركات حتى يؤمن و لأمة مؤمنة خير من مشركة و لو أعجبتكم و لا تنحكوا المشركين و لعبد مؤمن خير من مشرك و لو أعجبكم"
الآية معناها واضح ان فيه مساواه احنا عندنا عينين نقرا بيها و مخ نفكر بيه مش محتاجين افتاءات الرجالة الملوك اللى كل حاجة محللة ليهم و محرمة لينا,
قصدك ايه ب الرجالة الملوك ؟
الرجالة الملوك يملكوا كل شىء: الحلال ليهم و الحرام ليهم و بنات الغرب ليهم و بنات الشرق ليهم و مش حافظين من القرآن غير و ما ملكت أيمانكم....و ما ملكت أيمانكم بيفسروها على حسب أهوائهم يا جماعة أنا أتمنى ان كل الشباب ياخدوا بالهم ان فى ناس بيفسروا القرآن بطريقة غلط و انتوا ماشيين وراهم و فاكرين ان هو ده الصح
Posts: 23 | From: alexandria | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: And what exactly should be so disgusting about it?
becuae it is like that ,I do not have to give you reasons,IMO it is not Haram but I will not do that
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by stayingput: Men can't make it haram if God didn't.
The Qu'ran is MUTE about who women can marry; there are no rules. However, it's clear who men can marry. You can't say that because God made the rules for men they also apply to women.
يا جماعة انتوا محيرين نفسكوا ليه ما تفتحوا كتاب القرآن و تقروا فيه سورة البقرة الاية 221 و لا تنكحوا المشركات حتى يؤمن و لأمة مؤمنة خير من مشركة و لو أعجبتكم و لا تنحكوا المشركين و لعبد مؤمن خير من مشرك و لو أعجبكم"
الآية معناها واضح ان فيه مساواه احنا عندنا عينين نقرا بيها و مخ نفكر بيه مش محتاجين افتاءات الرجالة الملوك اللى كل حاجة محللة ليهم و محرمة لينا,
قصدك ايه ب الرجالة الملوك ؟
الرجالة الملوك يملكوا كل شىء: الحلال ليهم و الحرام ليهم و بنات الغرب ليهم و بنات الشرق ليهم و مش حافظين من القرآن غير و ما ملكت أيمانكم....و ما ملكت أيمانكم بيفسروها على حسب أهوائهم يا جماعة أنا أتمنى ان كل الشباب ياخدوا بالهم ان فى ناس بيفسروا القرآن بطريقة غلط و انتوا ماشيين وراهم و فاكرين ان هو ده الصح
أنا صراحة مش فاهم أن عاوز\عايزة تقول\تقولي ايه بالظبط؟ أنت قصدك ان الستات المسلمات من حقهم يتجوزوا ناس مش مسلمين؟ انل عارف ان فيه ناس في المنتدى دا نتفسر القرأن على هواهم المنتدى دا في حرب شرسة و ضروس على الإسلام وأهله
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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Egyptian men are far kinder to their wives then western men. And we are much better in bed too
Were you a woman in a previous life? Or how do you know?
All I have to say to that lie is to repeat what the study concluded: 95% of Egyptian women have never had an orgasm.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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January 4, 2008 in Islam, Sharia Law | Tags: Islam, Marrige, Sharia, Women Rights, Myth |
The Muslim Inter-Faith Marriage Myth
Introdution I study this issue for months and I can assure you that this document will prove to those who read it that Muslim man and women are allowed to marry almost every non Muslims.
Remember that a lot of Muslims have interfaith marriage but some Muslim think that’s haram.
I will use the Holy Quran, which is the ultimate truth that no Muslim can deny or question it, to prove to you that I’m right.
Read this before starting reading the arguments
1º Argument: “Muslim are not allow to marry non Muslims according to Quran [2:221]”
Answer: The [2:221] in Holy Quran only proves that Muslims can’t marry Pagans
Let’s read it:
Do not marry idolatresses, until they believe; a believing slave girl is better than an idolatress, though you may admire her. And do not marry idolaters, until they believe. A believing slave is better than an idolater, though you may admire him. Those call unto the Fire; and God calls unto Paradise, and pardon, by His leave, and He makes clear His signs to the people; haply they will remember. [2:221]
This verse tells us that male and female pagans are not good to marry Muslims (and Christians and Jews).
Some malicious Muslims use this verse to cheat people to not marry non Muslim because most people don’t know the meaning of idolatresses. Idolatresses means pagan (check the dictionary) but some people may ask: “Maybe in the Arabic Quran the word is not idolatresses.” In Arabic Quran al-musyrikât means the same… check these other 4 translations made by different Arabs, those are considered official translations:
And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you; these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful. By Shakir
Do not marry pagan women unless they believe in God. A believing slave girl is better than an idolater, even though the idolaters may attract you. Do not marry pagan men unless they believe in God. A believing slave is better than an idolater, even though the idolater may attract you. The pagans invite you to the fire, but God invites you to Paradise and forgiveness through His will. God shows His evidence to people so that they may take heed. By Sarwar
And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember. By H/K/Saheeh
Do not marry pagan women until they become believers; a believing slave woman is better than a free pagan woman even though she may be more attractive to you. Likewise, do not marry pagan men until they become believers: a believing slave is better than a free pagan even though he may be more pleasing to you. These pagans invite you to the hellfire while Allah invites you towards paradise and forgiveness by His grace. He makes His revelations clear to mankind so that they may take heed. By Malik
Question: “Why the Quran tell us not to marry pagans? This sounds anti-Semitic “
Answer: God knows best, remember that polytheists never like people who believe in One God.
Example: Nero, Emperor of Rome set the city of Rome in flames, the Christians were getting to popular a big number of conversions happen but after creating such a crises and blame Christians and their God and prophet, the pagans started to killed them in the Coliseum.
”…that verse is an illustration of how the Quarish people of Mecca were discriminating against the Muslim community which had only been recently formed at that time. We can imagine that if the enmity towards Islam was so deep, how could one marry (them)” By Drs. Nuryamin
Anti-Semitic is saying that Muslims can only marry Muslims
NOTE: Is unquestionable that Muslim men are allow to marry Christians and Jewish women.
The only forbidden marriage by Quran is with pagans, so marry non pagans is allow and in the specific case – Male Muslims with Christians and Jews - there is a verse that confirms the case as legal by God.
This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is allowing unto them. You are allow to marry chaste women, believing women, with chaste women, women of the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues.[5:5]
2th Argument: “Muslim men are allow to marry non-Muslims but Muslim women are not allow to do it”
Answer: The Quran doesn’t say that Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-Muslims.
So Muslims who say that women are forbidden to marry non-Muslims always use two arguments to defend that idea. I can deny both of them without a shadow of doubt.
Argument 1 – Non Muslim men will lead their Muslim wives to Hell.
Let’s use the example of MuslimBridge.org
The reason for allowing men and not women is in order to protect the woman’s religion. If a Muslim man requested his Christian wife not to bring alcohol or pork in his house and that she not wear mini-skirts or kiss his friends, she could comply without affecting her religious teachings. However, if a Christian husband requested his Muslim wife to purchase alcohol and serve him pork, to wear miniskirts and kiss his friends since it is his custom to kiss the wives of his friends. It is natural for a wife to try to please her husband. In the case of the Muslim wife, that could lead to the destruction of her faith.
Answer: This argument is ridiculous, check the info below:
1st – Muslim women should obey and please their husbands all matters that are allow by God… that’s what the Quran says and we all know that.
Sheikh Ibrahim Al-duwaysh wrote the book Halal Magic (Al-Si7rul Halal).In it he says:
“She must obey him in all matters that are not haram (and if it does involve haram, then she should not listen to those commands)”
The IslamWeb.net says the following:
She must obey him in matters that are not disobedience to Allah. Allah says: “…but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance).” (4:34) Holy Quran
If there is any dangerous to a Muslim faith is to Muslim men who marry Non Muslim women because we all know that women have a huge influence in men… In the book Hala Magic by Sheik Ibrahim Al-duwayssh it says:
“There are ahadeeth saying that women are fitnah (e.g. the test of the bani israeel was in women).
>> The woman has that ability to be a fitnah for a man - meaning she can change his mind with certain actions of hers.
>> When they want to sell anything - they bring a women to do it - because they know the kind of sihr they have on their (men’s) hearts.”
Think about Ramadahaan for example, if the non Muslim man ask his Muslim wife to have sexual intercourse on daylight she can firmly say no but if a non Muslim wife ask her Muslim husband to have sex at daylight he will probably do it because women can seduce man very easily. It’s very difficult to a man say no to sex because of his physical constitution. Not to mention that usually is the wife who cooks so in Ramadahaan month that will be a problem to Muslim men.
If someone can be lead to hell is Muslim man and not the Muslim women who marry non Muslims.
Argument 2 – Sons of Muslim women who marry non Muslims will not be Muslims
Answer: This argument is also very used to forbid Muslim women to marry non Muslim and I will to prove to you that is ridiculous and if there is a problem with the religion of the children is when Muslim men marry non Muslim women.
Shiekh Jasem Al- Mutawa said this:
“For example, when this Muslim woman, tries to teach her kids to love and respect all prophets and believe in all of them, her non-Muslim husband will not agree, because he believes only in his prophet. He will interfere in the way she raises her kids, and prevents her from raising them in an Islamic way. And here comes the real problem, because she will have only two options, whether she leaves the whole thing as it is, and does nothing about it -which will be an insult to her religion- or she argues about the matter, and this will sure lead to more marital problems.
On the other hand, there will be no such problems between a Muslim husband, and a non Muslim wife, because if this wife tried to teach her kids to love and believe in her prophet, her Muslim husband will not refuse that because he already believes in her prophet and all prophets. This is why Islam allows the marriage between Muslim man and non-Muslim woman, and forbids the marriage between Muslim woman, and non-Muslim man. Because Islam respects the marital relationship and wants to guarantee its stability, not because it respects men, and disrespects women”
Oh really??? Shiekh Jasem said that “if this wife tried to teach her kids to love and believe in her prophet, her Muslim husband will not refuse that because he already believes in her prophet and all prophets.” If that happens the kid of that Muslim will not be Muslim because if the wife is Christian for example and only teach about her prophet, her son will be a Christian and not a Muslim.
What Sheikh Jasem and the others Muslims who point this argument don’t know is that 62% to 80% of the children from a marriage between a Muslim women and a non Muslim husband will be Muslims. And on the other hand, when is the man the Muslim and the wife the non Muslim the provability of (the kid) being Muslim is only 13% to 57%. These numbers are facts… check the info below.
Liberal Islam Network publishes an interview by Ulil Abshar-Abdalla at 19th June 2003 with Drs. Nuryamin Aini, MA who is a lecturer on Sharia on the faculty of UIN Syarif Hidayatullah who is also a researcher at the Centre of Human Resource Development (PPSDM) UIN Jakarta.
Ulil: “What are the religious tendencies among children of interfaith marriages?”
NURYAMIN: “The religious tendencies of IFM children are a very interesting subject. In Islam, it doesn’t matter if a Muslim marries a non Muslim woman. According to data I’ve got at 1980, 50% of children of Muslims who marry non Muslim woman were Muslims. But, where the mother is Muslim and father is non Muslim, the number is higher: up to 77% would be Muslim. That number increased in 1990 by up to 79%. Hence it could be said that Muslim woman’s capability to Islamize her children when she marries a non Muslim is higher than if it is the husband who is Muslim. The mother’s domination can’t be separated from her role as the primary nurturer of her children. For example, this can be seen in the following table:”
Affiliation of Children of IFM couple according to religion, Year and Sex of Parent
Religion
1980
1990
2000
Husband
Wife
Husband
Wife
Husband
Wife
1. Islam
50.0
77.1
57.0
79.0
13.0
61.9
2. Protestant
18.8
29.0
27.1
41.0
16.0
55.6
3. Catholic
46.2
75.5
41.8
51.0
25.0
93.8
4. Hindu
8.6*
33.3*
5.6
0
40.0
-
5. Buddhist
-
-
4.8
0
-
-
6. Others
-
-
20.0
0
-
-
* For Census-80, Hindu, Buddhist and so on unified for analyses. Census-1980 = 685 children; Census-1990 = 1044 children; Census 2000 = 83 children. Source: Census 1980, 1990 and 2000
“We have to deconstruct the myth of fikh which prohibits Muslim woman from marrying non Muslims. The data from the Central Bureau of statistics (BPS) justifies this even if it contains an error of about 2-3 %.” Drs. Nuryamin Aini (in the same interview)
Conclusion and extra info
I strongly believe that the info that I showed to you in this document was very clear and I hope you had fall in the 3st group.
The Quran doesn´t instruct Muslim and especially Muslim women not to marry non-Muslims, only the pagans, which nowadays are almost impossible to find. Remember that God is not an oppressor, He only wants us to live in peace and for example the advice to not marry pagans is or was only to protect us. You can marry a pagan if you are absolutely sure that he or she won’t interfere with your faith.
Its obvious that marry a person of our religion is much better or easier. But if the person you want marry is not of your religion but respect your beliefs… I see no problems in that marriage.
“What Sheikh Jasem and the others Muslims who point this argument don’t know is that 62% to 80% of the children from a marriage between a Muslim women and a non Muslim husband will be Muslims. And on the other hand, when is the man the Muslim and the wife the non Muslim the provability of (the kid) being Muslim is only 13% to 57%.
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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Also as they said in the above answers that the quraan proves that if it's forbidden for a woman to marry non muslim it's the same for the man but the egyptian men r so proud and they say we middle easterns not religious and they give themselves rights to do everything wrong saying we r men, and for those who say here that they go with western women for their bodies they do the same with egyptian women and we don't like to be with a man who wants to be with a western woman for her body and i repeat between western men and women and eastern men and women exists the good and the bad but the egyptian men like to be bosses and make egyptian women slaves but we r not and we will not be and we r equal whether u like it or not Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by $sonomod$: please the source of the hadith, who wrote it down and how long after the Prophet (PBUH) died before this hadith was uttered.
so it Muhammad Ben An-Nadr from ga'far from Tahnet from Anas so it is ANAS who was the first sitness and he was one of the companions
quote: Besides Umm Salim is not the Prophet, she is just a woman who used this as an excuse to get what she wanted. Never heard of this before
of course you never heard of this before !
and I would like if you do onot use the phrase " get what she wanted" I hope it is not what came across my mind
quote: Wasn't born yesterday, my ex's father studied at Al-Azhar. Who in your family studied at Al-azhar let alone has taken 8 Eid-al Fitr pilgrimages?
Excuze me ,you nor your father family is at least equal my familt,my great grandfather was the DIRECTOR of Al-Azhar institute in Tanta and he of course hold other positions his name is Sheikh Ulema Ahmad Abdullah" , and both of my grandfathers ,one was a graduate of the Al-Sharia wa AlQanon from Al-Azhar and the other had an equivelent degree in Arabic ,my father's aunt is married to a professor of Arabic and............and my family people call it family of Ulema ,we come originally from the countryside and my great grandfather was al-Mofty for that region and the regions around it appointed by Al-Azhar that time..so please never telll me who you are because simply it is not fair for you
quote: -the prophets daughter were married to non-muslims and when allah revealed him quran,he made their husband divorce them
again who was the source of the hadith? Likewise the ruling for the wives/daughters of the Prophet does not apply to all Muslimahs. God's law is different for the women who live with the Prophet
this is Sirah and it is authenticatec completely
not only that ,take this it is also from Sirah
Ramla Bent Aby sofyan was married a newly muslim convert and both immigrated to Al-Habash(now called Ethiopia )but her husband left Islam and became a christian she immediately left him and and the prophet asked her to come back and he married her
quote: - when it comes to marriage,You are muslim or not muslim ,in islam nothing in between ,so the verses and hadith above are sufficient to prohibit this kind of marriage
not an actual hadith its just your opinion.
it is in Islamic viewpoint ,you are Muslim or anything else because Christians worship Jesus then they are Mushrik and because Jews insult Allah ,they are Kafr
verse 2:113 "The Jews said that the Christians follow nothing (i.e. are not on the right religion); and the Christians said that the Jews follow nothing (i.e. are not on the right religion); though they both recite the Scripture. Like unto their word, said (the pagans) who know not. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection about that wherein they have been differing."
Now Allah says that he will Judge between them so what is it?
it is this
verse 3:85 "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of I the losers"
so basicly nor Christians or jews have any kind of religion according to Allah
quote:this kindergarten crap
you are the one who is doing that ,
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: However, if a Christian husband requested his Muslim wife to purchase alcohol and serve him pork, to wear mini skirts and kiss his friends since it is his custom to kiss the wives of his friends. It is natural for a wife to try to please her husband. In the case of the Muslim wife, that could lead to the destruction of her faith.
Answer: This argument is ridiculous, check the info below:
I agree that the argument is ridiculous, but I disagree with the "info below" because I don't believe that a Muslim woman has to obey her husband "in all matters except those that go against religion."
The point is ... marriage is not about rules and obeying. Two adult people willing to enter a relationship will discuss those matters and others prior to marriage, that's normal and doesn't only happen with issues relating to religion.
Just think of a vegetarian marrying a non-vegetarian. This will only be a problem if one of them is really fanatic about their diet, otherwise it will be no big deal and they can reach a compromise.
So issues like pork or no pork, does the husband want his wife to wear a miniskirt (which I find a bit of a ridiculous suggestion anyway, as if all Christian men want their wives to wear miniskirts ), kissing friends or not, are something every couple can talk about and find a solution they both feel comfortable with. If their opinions on those or other issues differ too much, they will probably not be very compatible anyway. Why make such a big deal out of it?
Btw., it is often Muslim men in relationships with Christian women who try to change their wifes beliefs, want them to convert etc.
I've even read fatawa which stated that a Muslim man should not allow his wife to go to church and that he should not allow her to celebrate any Christian holidays in their home. So the whole argument that a Muslim husband will automatically be tolerant of his Christian wife's faith is nonsense.
Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal was asked about a man who had a Christian wife – could he let her go out to join in the Christian festivals or to go to the church? He said, no.
In al-Mughni (1/21), Ibn Qudaamah says: “(Treatment of women): If his wife is a dhimmiyyah [a Jew or Christian living under Islamic rule], he can prevent her from going to the church, because that is not an act of obedience to Allaah.” Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by mylife: Have you ever thought us western sluts...lie and sleep with egyptian man....because we can....you are all so easy targets....flash a bit of shoulder and you are all hooked ...
That's what I've been saying all along, we know your slutty ways and we know you are not trustworthy. That's why we take what we want from you then dump you.
We too know your slutty men ways....thats why it is soooo easy for us to....er and it is not the woman that always get dumped....
you talk about trustworthy is not that the kettle calling the pot black !!!!!
quote:Originally posted by mylife: so it is ok for you to dip your dick in who ever lets you.....then you go to the egyptian woman who you care about so much.....and dip it in her....not thinking that she is also sleeping with all the westerns sluts you have but hey as long as she is clean and pure you dont mind....hope you use condoms.....can really understand how you love and respect...your fellow women....cover her up...get her pregnant....keep her at home with kids and family.....while you go out and look at western sluts.....damn....now i know why i am single....i have a opinion and no man will ever stop me having one......
No no no......that is cheating. I did not say sleep with western sluts while married. That is what western men do not Egyptian men. We have sex with western women to satisfy our urge but when we meet the Egyptian woman we're going to marry, that's it, no more western sluts. period.
Dont you see though....your egyptian wife will be pure like the driven snow for you.....while you will be the dirty slushy ice....tarred and tainted from the untrustworthy western slut....were is that being good and caring to your wife....but your wife is still sleeping with all your past partners as soon as you enter her.....or does praying to allah.....clean you and make it right.... i just feel sorry for the egyptian women having to put up and live with double standards....from their men....(not all men as i know some people here have good marriages).....
anyway i think you test drive us.....so we can teach you how to be a good lover....
What exactly is the problem, I don't understand it. Do you believe men and women are free to choose to have sex? Then what exactly is the problem? Western women have sex freely and that's fine by me. Why the double standard? You test drive men and men test drive women. Done.
who said there was a problem and if there was a problem why would you understand the problem (your a man)....yes western woman and western men have sex freely....so we are sluts (which is fine)
the double standards come from the egyptian man...it is ok for him to mess around with western woman....but dare a egyptian woman talk to a western man let alone sleep with one....then she is severly told off... egyptian men want their wives to be virgins...fine....but i can imagine that the egyptian man is not a virgin...on his wedding night.... your qoute in life to women should be "do as i say and not as i do"....let me just say....their are good egyptian and western men...out there....but there are also the double standard think i am gorgeous and unique egyptian and western dicks out there to....and with your comments you are starting to sound like the latter....
Posts: 312 | From: my world | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
The differences between how a western man treats his wife and how an arabic man treats her:
How a man wants his wife: The western man wants her well educated, open minded, understanding, intelligent, get along with her The arabic man wants her beautiful, white, has long soft hair
If a man wants to be close to a woman: The western man shows her that she is intelligent and educated and appreciate her The arabic man shows her that he has great experience and he knew alot of women before he knows her
If a woman talks what makes him pay attention to her: The western man pays attention to her mentality The arabic man pays attention to her body and her look
When the man says " I love you " to his wife: The western man: in the morning and when he goes out of the house and when they eat and before they sleep. The arabic man: in the first day of marriage he brings and makes her signs that he told her he loves her and when she tells him " you never tell me nice words" he brings the paper and show it to her and says " can u deny? "
If the woman is angry and her husband wants to apologise: The western man brings her roses or invites her in a restaurant Th arabic man tells her with a loud voice " Whats wrong with you everyday anger anger and he pushes her in her arm while he is so angry and says " Ok u r free "
If the woman talks about commerce or football or work: The western man talks and discuss things with her The arabic man tells her " you don't understand these things don't be philosopher leave those things to men
If the man eats at home and finishes eating: The western man cleans up the table and wash the dishes with her The arabic man goes to rest and tells her to bring him the tea quickly
If a man comes back home while his wife is working: The western man kisses her forehead and tells her " get some rest and he continues the work The arabic man tells her: " you still didn't finish ok i will go till u finish then i will come back.
Posts: 114 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jun 2008
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he probably doesnt think his male friends sexual parts are disgusting though
Oh, you mean Ahmad was saying that a man giving oral sex to a woman is disgusting, but a woman giving oral sex to a man is not?
I rather understood his statement to mean that he finds both "damn disgusting", I might be wrong. But I'm sure he can clarify this.
No I meant the fatwa guy, not Akmad as hes never had chance to try it with a real woman, just seen all the porn with his mates and thinks thats how real life is Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: The differences between how a western man treats his wife and how an arabic man treats her:
How a man wants his wife: The western man wants her well educated, open minded, understanding, intelligent, get along with her The arabic man wants her beautiful, white, has long soft hair
If a man wants to be close to a woman: The western man shows her that she is intelligent and educated and appreciate her The arabic man shows her that he has great experience and he knew alot of women before he knows her
If a woman talks what makes him pay attention to her: The western man pays attention to her mentality The arabic man pays attention to her body and her look
When the man says " I love you " to his wife: The western man: in the morning and when he goes out of the house and when they eat and before they sleep. The arabic man: in the first day of marriage he brings and makes her signs that he told her he loves her and when she tells him " you never tell me nice words" he brings the paper and show it to her and says " can u deny? "
If the woman is angry and her husband wants to apologise: The western man brings her roses or invites her in a restaurant Th arabic man tells her with a loud voice " Whats wrong with you everyday anger anger and he pushes her in her arm while he is so angry and says " Ok u r free "
If the woman talks about commerce or football or work: The western man talks and discuss things with her The arabic man tells her " you don't understand these things don't be philosopher leave those things to men
If the man eats at home and finishes eating: The western man cleans up the table and wash the dishes with her The arabic man goes to rest and tells her to bring him the tea quickly
If a man comes back home while his wife is working: The western man kisses her forehead and tells her " get some rest and he continues the work The arabic man tells her: " you still didn't finish ok i will go till u finish then i will come back.
wow you have definately never met any of the western or egyptian men I have known! Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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