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Hi everyone, We are a group of Egyptian activists who are gathering ideas and suggestions about a BETTER EGYPT! As you may know the last few decades the tourism in Egypt has gone to hell because of the tremendous neglect and corruption. Our demands as well as all tourists who love to visit Egypt are as follows: 1- The complete removal of the horse and camel stables at the pyramids and eliminate any dealing with tourists, including talking, touching, selling, begging. 2- Stopping the SEX tourism from Russia and the rest of the east European countries that is coming to Hurghada and Sharm Alsheikh. We do not need the cheap tourism that tarnishes the reputation of Egypt and causes diseases among our young men. 3- Forcing Bazaar and gift shop sells men to stay inside their shops and never get out of them under any circumstances, prevent them from taking advantage of tourists in all the touristic areas in Egypt.
Please feel free to add your suggestions or you can join us on our Arabic page on Facebook at معا لإعادة بناء السياحة المصرية و تطهيرها من الفوضى you can always send us photos, videos or any article or websites to support our cause at EgyptTouristProtection@gmail.com Thank you and looking forward to hearing from you
Posts: 18 | Registered: Feb 2011
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It's a good idea for a FB page. On the specific points you raise though, here are my thoughts:
1- The complete removal of the horse and camel stables at the pyramids and eliminate any dealing with tourists, including talking, touching, selling, begging.
The horse and camel stables are in need of a serious overhaul and education, and people need to be more aware of the health of the animals that they ride. I don't think they need to be eliminated though! There are thousands of horses and a lot of camels there and people need to make a living.
Also, I don't personally believe that tourists should live in a complete purified bubble sealed off from local Egyptian people. People can be educated to behave in a different way towards tourists. If you go to Souk El Fustat, there is almost zero 'tourist hassle' from the shopkeepers. On the other hand, there is little haggling over prices by way of compensation!
2- Stopping the SEX tourism from Russia and the rest of the east European countries that is coming to Hurghada and Sharm Alsheikh. We do not need the cheap tourism that tarnishes the reputation of Egypt and causes diseases among our young men.
Are you a man? Sorry but men are FULLY able to control themselves if they so wish - they are not forced in most cases to have unprotected sexual relations with foreigners. I will not stand for any bollocks that a man, once he has got started, cannot stop himself. I threw a man out of my house back in the UK once for coming out with crap like that.
The fact is the men who do this WANT to do this. Men are not pathetic innocent little playthings who have no choice in the matter.
If you read various sites, a lot of the women think they are in relationships with the man they have sexual relations with - yet it is those 'innocent' men who have multiple wives and are cheating constantly and therefore those men who are putting the WOMEN at risk by lying and cheating. It is those men who have the problem, not the women.
3- Forcing Bazaar and gift shop sells men to stay inside their shops and never get out of them under any circumstances, prevent them from taking advantage of tourists in all the touristic areas in Egypt.
It's not a case of forcing them to stay inside their shops - which are often very small and dark, but just of educating them about how to sell in a more 'tourist friendly' way. Some of the tourists consider haggling part of the experience in this part of the world (Northern Africa, Middle East) as it's something we don't get back in the west. There's a price and that's the price.
A friend of mine had a very frightening experience (for her, because of her background which contrary to her appearance was not white western but african) of being surrounded and shut into a shop by 10 very aggressive men in Aswan and which caused her a great deal of emotional distress. That is the kind of thing that needs to be stopped.
And an understanding that NO means NO.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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Thanks Shanta Gdeeda for your reply, yes i'm a man and i'm not denying the responsibility of those men in Hurghada for their wrongdoing, as far as i'm concerned they all could go back to their villages in upper Egypt and be replaced by friendly, well mannered,clean cut-willing to work (not go after sex and chase russian prostitutes) young men of Tahrir square. As for the stables, i was born and raised in Pyramids area, i'm well aware of the situation and the corruption that is associated with it, those people have been doing our country more harms than good and as for the animals they can be handed over to the new government i'm sure they'd buy them and put them in good use. As for the bazaar people time has proved they are greedy, why does the whole entire country of 85 millions have to suffer as a result of a bad tourism because of a handful of greedy people that want to live beyond their means? i would also like to get other people opinions.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptTouristProtection: As you may know the last few decades the tourism in Egypt has gone to hell because of the tremendous neglect and corruption.
I am about out to go shopping so I will respond very quickly to you.
Hm, Egyptian tourism has gone to hell? Says who???
Actually it flourished. The number of tourists was increasing rapidly over the last years, many foreign investments being made, millions of jobs created.
quote:Originally posted by EgyptTouristProtection: 1- The complete removal of the horse and camel stables at the pyramids and eliminate any dealing with tourists, including talking, touching, selling, begging.
Why should they be sent away? This is what they do for a living. Besides that it's a lucrative business opportunity.
Now about the improper behaviour: This is unfortunately pretty widespread among Egyptian men - not only displayed by many working in tourism.
quote:Originally posted by EgyptTouristProtection: 2- Stopping the SEX tourism from Russia and the rest of the east European countries that is coming to Hurghada and Sharm Alsheikh. We do not need the cheap tourism that tarnishes the reputation of Egypt and causes diseases among our young men.
I can only say - it takes two to tango. And as far as I know Russian tourists are on top of your visitor's list.
quote:Originally posted by EgyptTouristProtection: 3- Forcing Bazaar and gift shop sells men to stay inside their shops and never get out of them under any circumstances, prevent them from taking advantage of tourists in all the touristic areas in Egypt.
Do you want another Saudi Arabia? Why don't you just propose to lock them up? Really I don't see any reason why these shop sellers shouldn't step outside of their stores and get some fresh air and being able to socialize with people. They also have to bring customers into their stores to make a living.
Really really I did not like your proposals. Goodbye.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I think passport/visa control and offices can do with an overhaul. Last time I visited was over a year ago so not sure how much changed.
This is one of the first thing people see when they land, long queues, two different line, then when it's finally your turn, your asked to join the other queue first...
In terms of general tourism, I think Egypt's greatest assets are its warm people and its land (beaches, sites, historical, etc) so people will always be flooding Egypt, improvement in infrastructure and more (online?) services would give the country a big boost not only to tourism but to its own people.
Better public bus/rail service and info (timetable, maps etc), metered cabs, more online booking service and maps maps maps. tourists love maps.
Perhaps the wonderful energized youths in Egypt can start an official map agency in cartography (like Ordnance Survey in UK)... this will also benefit (direct) marketing, businesses, build demographics, out line boundary of cities, districts, constituent, voting zones - this will help Egypt to be more organised in it democratic process preventing the likelihood of rigged election, ...all in my opinion.
edit: p.s. your facebook link isn't working
Posts: 212 | Registered: Aug 2007
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Thanks tigerlily_misr for your reply, even if i suggested Egypt to be a piece of paradise you would have disagreed goodbye to you too I would like an opinion from a foreigner who does NOT own a bazaar in Egypt please Posts: 18 | Registered: Feb 2011
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I think passport/visa control and offices can do with an overhaul. Last time I visited was over a year ago so not sure how much changed.
This is one of the first thing people see when they land, long queues, two different line, then when it's finally your turn, your asked to join the other queue first...
In terms of general tourism, I think Egypt's greatest assets are its warm people and its land (beaches, sites, historical, etc) so people will always be flooding Egypt, improvement in infrastructure and more (online?) services would give the country a big boost not only to tourism but to its own people.
Better public bus/rail service and info (timetable, maps etc), metered cabs, more online booking service and maps maps maps. tourists love maps.
Perhaps the wonderful energized youths in Egypt can start an official map agency in cartography (like Ordnance Survey in UK)... this will also benefit (direct) marketing, businesses, build demographics, out line boundary of cities, districts, constituent, voting zones - this will help Egypt to be more organised in it democratic process preventing the likelihood of rigged election, ...all in my opinion.
edit: p.s. your facebook link isn't working
Awesome ideas, i thank you very much! please let us know if you could have anything else.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptTouristProtection:
quote:Originally posted by paradise_seekers: Hi,
I think passport/visa control and offices can do with an overhaul. Last time I visited was over a year ago so not sure how much changed.
This is one of the first thing people see when they land, long queues, two different line, then when it's finally your turn, your asked to join the other queue first...
In terms of general tourism, I think Egypt's greatest assets are its warm people and its land (beaches, sites, historical, etc) so people will always be flooding Egypt, improvement in infrastructure and more (online?) services would give the country a big boost not only to tourism but to its own people.
Better public bus/rail service and info (timetable, maps etc), metered cabs, more online booking service and maps maps maps. tourists love maps.
Perhaps the wonderful energized youths in Egypt can start an official map agency in cartography (like Ordnance Survey in UK)... this will also benefit (direct) marketing, businesses, build demographics, out line boundary of cities, districts, constituent, voting zones - this will help Egypt to be more organised in it democratic process preventing the likelihood of rigged election, ...all in my opinion.
edit: p.s. your facebook link isn't working
Awesome ideas, i thank you very much! please let us know if you could have anything else.
I have copious amount of ideas, would you like to elect me as the new president!?
I bet every youth feels like a president, it's really admirable the thoughts, solutions and progress they want the country to go through - I pray they keep it up and only the Egyptian people themselves can do this,.. without interference from other government.
Posts: 212 | Registered: Aug 2007
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I can tell you for sue i have absolutely no ambitions to become a president my biggest dream is to see tourists walk on the streets freely everywhere and in volumes just as i used to see them when i was a child and even better.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Feb 2011
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Two things stand out after all these years that i and most tourists are most shocked by when visiting Luxor.
Men in official uniforms ( tourism police) and other " workers" at archaeologic sites directly asking you for money (tip).
The harassment and abuse from sellers in Luxor - why, it doesn't work, tourists run from them, they don't buy anything.
Contrast this with Petra in Jordan - when I went business was bad, but all local sellers were polite, friendly and behaved respectfully. It made for such a different experience - and guess where I spent more of my tourist money on souvenirs?!
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: Two things stand out after all these years that i and most tourists are most shocked by when visiting Luxor.
Men in official uniforms ( tourism police) and other " workers" at archaeologic sites directly asking you for money (tip).
The harassment and abuse from sellers in Luxor - why, it doesn't work, tourists run from them, they don't buy anything. Contrast this with Petra in Jordan - when I went business was bad, but all local sellers were polite, friendly and behaved respectfully. It made for such a different experience - and guess where I spent more of my tourist money on souvenirs?!
Thank you, i can assure you this will change forever!
Posts: 18 | Registered: Feb 2011
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I assure you that I wish you well in your endeavours, but surely you appreciate that these are mountainous problems, with very deep roots, and which just cannot be solved easily within a short time frame.
Egyptians, of my acquaintance here in Luxor, don't just ask for tips etc. they expect them! Their whole life is built around their religion, wherein if someone "has" then someone who "has not" would rightly expect the one who "has" to give to the one who "has not"! Obviously, comparatively speaking, we (the foreign tourist) "have" and the Egyptian living on a Dollar or two per day, "hasn't". So (in the eyes of one whose religious duties rule the normal practice of his everyday life) why would we not want to give to those less fortunate?
I'm not a fool, though. I do realise that this principle has been thoroughly devalued by those who are intent to not work other than beg! But even many of those who are in full-time employment are so poorly paid that they are unable to make ends meet without the backsheesh.
The gigolos are in the same sort of position. They know that by honest work they will struggle to make 1000le per month, even in a really good job. But by servicing some old bag a few times a day, they can, in some cases, make a fortune! It sure beats digging ditches for 300le a month!
As for the harrasment from the traders in Luxor, every book I've read about visitors to the area, some going back 2000 years, have included complaints about eactly the same problems. This is highly unlikely to change, even within several generations, after all; this is the "Egyptian way"!
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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ETP, some of your ideas are good but your attitude is wrong, maybe it's a language barrier though. The concept though is commendable but blame you are dishing out is possibly going in the wrong directions.
1- The complete removal of the horse and camel stables at the pyramids and eliminate any dealing with tourists, including talking, touching, selling, begging.
And how will people get round to see the pyramids, walking, cars, how? The horses and camels are a huge part of visiting the pyramids for many tourists and what would you employ those camel and horse owners as if they didn't have this, or would you simply take away their entire living as Hawass has tried to do by fencing off the pyramids.
Training and education for the animal owners in how to look after their animals - which is their livelihood, and in how to approach and deal with tourists in the best way to get the best results. I am not sure if they pay anything for working there, like rent etc, which knowing how the rest of it works they possibly do and this contributes to the urgency to take more money. Lower or zero rents by the tourist ministry would solve that problem.
2- Stopping the SEX tourism from Russia and the rest of the east European countries that is coming to Hurghada and Sharm Alsheikh. We do not need the cheap tourism that tarnishes the reputation of Egypt and causes diseases among our young men.
This was answered very well by shanta regarding your pure young men but now you are talking about banning a certain country or countries from visiting, tourists who spend a lot of money in this country, and how would you screen others from UK or other western countries, would you ask as they are boarding if they are visiting for site seeing, business or sex?
3- Forcing Bazaar and gift shop sells men to stay inside their shops and never get out of them under any circumstances, prevent them from taking advantage of tourists in all the touristic areas in Egypt.
I am now thinking bring back BabaMu!
You are talking about banning some tourists and now forcing shop owners blah blah. How would you do that, chain them up inside the shops??
Egypt now has FREEDOM and you are talking about going BACK to OPPRESSION! I can now see how Egypt has had apparently 5 revolutions and still got oppression at the end of it.
There are other groups setting up around Egypt all with similar ideas in 'what' to change, few in 'how' to change. The change needs to come through 'educating' the Egyptians in tourism right down to the caleche men, who also have a living to earn and families and a horse to feed. Banning here and forcing there is NOT going to do it in the manner this revolution ousted it's dictator, it is only going to form more oppression for more of YOUR people, like them or not they ARE your people and part of this nation.
The group I am involved in hopes to be able to educate from top to bottom in how to deal with tourists correctly, this WILL reap the maximum benefits for all concerned.
If one caleche man or taxi driver speaks respectfuly, charges correctly and does not hassle then that taxi driver or caleche man will be used regularly by those tourists and the name and number passed on. If the caleche man or taxi driver (insert any tourist profession here) gets tourist on his caleche or taxi then charges ridiculous prices, hassles and scares the poor tousits half to death for perhaps double the amount that is 'correct' amount, then that is the ONLY business he will make through that tourist, while the other one is being used for travel all day every day of the tourists holiday AND being recommended. Which one will make more money AND friends? THIS is the education needed for many of those in tourism.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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How things can become better in the tourism industry when most of the tourists stay away??? Egyptian sellers will be acting now more desperate than before the revolution.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: As for the harrasment from the traders in Luxor, every book I've read about visitors to the area, some going back 2000 years, have included complaints about eactly the same problems. This is highly unlikely to change, even within several generations, after all; this is the "Egyptian way"!
The same applies for offering and accepting bribes. People went on the streets to demonstrate against corruption in this country, denouncing high-level politicians but failed to see that every 'little' Egyptian is doing the very same thing just on a lower level.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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They are not staying away TL, tourists are arriving and many are arriving next week, many forward bookings have not been canceled.
Sellers are not acting more desperate either, yes there are concerns but the general feeling here is much friendlier than before. People are lovely, helpful and smiling and I have not been hassled once since all this, same reports from other foreigners here. There is definately an air of 'freedom' here and as a foreigner I feel more comfortable than ever.
Someone actually said to me yesterday 'its been lovely, Luxor is really nice without the tourists' and that was a foreign restaurant owner with no business at all as yet.
Monday and Weds flights from UK are starting tomorrow and tourist sites are all open. Foreign restaurants etc have taken the opportunity to have holidays and/or refurbish and clean. I spoke to many many restaurant owners yesterday, foreign and Egyptian, we know tourists will come back because this country has something nowhere else in the world has and we are ready to welcome them all to a new, peaceful and free Egypt.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: As for the harrasment from the traders in Luxor, every book I've read about visitors to the area, some going back 2000 years, have included complaints about eactly the same problems. This is highly unlikely to change, even within several generations, after all; this is the "Egyptian way"!
The same applies for offering and accepting bribes. People went on the streets to demonstrate against corruption in this country, denouncing high-level politicians but failed to see that every 'little' Egyptian is doing the very same thing just on a lower level.
No they don't 'fail to see' that at all, they KNOW that and if the corruption starts at the top it naturally HAS to work it's way down to the bottom. If at the top they are corrupt enough to want such ridiculous rent prices then the rentee has to get that money from somewhere before he even starts to make a living. This is why the corrupt are being picked off FROM the top down.
I have a friend here with a business which not every tom, dick and Ahmed can copy, yet there are others that have set up over the years. This business has almost been crippled by the under the table money it has to pay to even do the business. We are talking 10's of thousands of pounds. One day her business was 'not safe' due to this, this and this, how to put it all right? another 200,000 in the MINISTERS pocket and they got the go to work. There was NOTHING wrong in the first place, safety was NEVER an issue, but suddenly a 'new rule' was invented to squeeze more money. Many MANY new businesses here don't have a chance in trying to do anything 'right' as those at the top want way too much 'under the table'. Stop THAT, then they have a chance.
How does the little man actually dealing with the tourists compare in this?
I know many shop and restaurant owners here, rents for a SMALL shop behind Luxor Temple are 10,000 a month and above. So 10,000 to be made somehow before you even make anything profit wise and there is also water and electricity costs which are higher for any business. A license for 'local' business is less than a license for 'tourism' business so many opt for a 'local' license. The sign outside your shop cost 2000 a year minimum, paid to the govt, any other sign planted in the street is another 2000 annually. Sorry but that is where corruption starts, right at the top and logically has to filter down.
Edit: offering and accepting bribes is not quite how it works. As I have posted above it is demanding and paying, not offering and accepting. Bribes are demanded or your business does not work, bribes are paid as demanded, they are not offered.
When the river police drive over to a felucca on the river with tourists on it, they demand money, food and whatever else is available, it is not 'offered', it is demanded or the captains license is taken and you are returned to the mooring. When a regular Egyptian is stopped in the street for no reason, the 5le is demanded, not offered.
Edit again: Another example of the filtering down of extortion. In a popular but classy 5 star hotel here, a DESK, yes a DESK in the lobby to sell your business from, a DESK was 10,000 a MONTH, at any given point when tourism is low they can, and have been known to, raise this rental for a DESK to 20,000 a MONTH and no they do not supply the DESK!!
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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An Egyptian friend of mine, her niece and niece's husband set up a cafe/restaurant up in one of the Delta governates. They sank all their savings into it - new equipment, new furniture - and it became very successful very quickly. The Governor of that area then started demanding huge bribes from them that they simply could not afford. So now, their business is closed, and they have nothing.
It is the corruption from the top that has to stop.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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Exactly shanta! I know many foreigners here that had money to invest in setting up a business, they will all confirm they have been almost crippled due to the governor in the area and his corruption. I know one lady that has tried for 4 years to establish her business, she has now returned to Germany as rents and other demands have crippled her and forced her out of business. This is foreigners with money, how the hell are Egyptians supposed to move anyway forward with this kind of corruption?
I can't wait till our dear governor is gone, he is apparently still in hiding and trying to make little gestures now, but too little too late Mr Ferag, I have offered to supply the matches and have many offering to supply the banzine when we burn that one at the stake! OOOhhhh don't get me started.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptTouristProtection: Hi everyone, We are a group of Egyptian activists who are gathering ideas and suggestions about a BETTER EGYPT! As you may know the last few decades the tourism in Egypt has gone to hell because of the tremendous neglect and corruption. Our demands as well as all tourists who love to visit Egypt are as follows: 1- The complete removal of the horse and camel stables at the pyramids and eliminate any dealing with tourists, including talking, touching, selling, begging. 2- Stopping the SEX tourism from Russia and the rest of the east European countries that is coming to Hurghada and Sharm Alsheikh. We do not need the cheap tourism that tarnishes the reputation of Egypt and causes diseases among our young men. 3- Forcing Bazaar and gift shop sells men to stay inside their shops and never get out of them under any circumstances, prevent them from taking advantage of tourists in all the touristic areas in Egypt.
Please feel free to add your suggestions or you can join us on our Arabic page on Facebook at معا لإعادة بناء السياحة المصرية و تطهيرها من الفوضى you can always send us photos, videos or any article or websites to support our cause at EgyptTouristProtection@gmail.com Thank you and looking forward to hearing from you
First, I would like to congratulate you on taking an initiative to try and improve your country
After reading your ideas, it seems like you want to isolate tourists in a sense, with not much contact with your people. I am wondering why you are taking this approach? I personally think that most visitors here love the experience of interacting with egyptian people. Yes, this hasseling stuff has to end, but at the end of the day, a photo of a camel ride at the Pyramids, is a wonderful memory. Good luck with your endeavors and may you help bring a positive change to your "new country" Posts: 3291 | From: I DO believe in Karma! | Registered: Apr 2002
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There is one FB goup that is asking people who live in Egypt ideas on how to make it a better place. I recall reading about litter removal, animal protection, better footpaths etc...
For a better Egypt I would like to see people with Special Needs to be recognised and catered for. SEN schools here are virtually non-existent and the odd few that are in place have awful reputations.
Education in general tbh needs an over-haul.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptTouristProtection: 1- The complete removal of the horse and camel stables at the pyramids and eliminate any dealing with tourists, including talking, touching, selling, begging.
Now I think removing the horses and camels would be huge shame. It does add to the experience. But personally I would like to see those animals better looked after.
Why do you want to make it so sterile? I certainly saw no 'touching' when I was there, nor begging. As for selling, you know actually it would be quite nice to grab a drink when it's 100 degrees +. I think there should be more selling. As for no talking, again - why make it sterile? Egyptians are great hosts - what's wrong with giving a guided tour and getting paid for it? A lot of people expect this. We don't all want to walk around in silence reading our guidebooks. Some personality goes a long way.
Actually, I think you're missing a trick with the pyramids. What's wrong with a few bedouin tents selling tea and soft drinks? We're too weak and feeble for standing around in that beating sun. Having a cool off in the shade and a nice drink would make us want to stick around a bit longer. Then we might take a look at a stall and buy gifts for those back home - proudly tell our family we got them at the pyramids. There's nothing wrong with this. This is what tourism's all about.
quote:Originally posted by EgyptTouristProtection: 2- Stopping the SEX tourism from Russia and the rest of the east European countries that is coming to Hurghada and Sharm Alsheikh. We do not need the cheap tourism that tarnishes the reputation of Egypt and causes diseases among our young men.
Yeah I'm not Russian, but personally I find this offensive. Like your 'young men' aren't responsible for their own actions - yer right.
There are plenty of perfectly respectable Russians and Eastern European visitors - what are you going to do, a blanket ban? Actually, I think you do need them, now more than ever.
Now if you're wanting to cut out a certain kind of people (and those kinds of people exist in every nationality - it's not exclusive to Russia) then it's very simple. Make it more expensive. I don't see that Egypt is at a point where it can do this just yet, but, so long as this transition works out and you continue to show the world positivity (cleaning Tahrir Square like that was a HUGE recommendation to the outside world of Egypt, BTW), so long as terrorism doesn't creep back in, I don't see why you won't get back to catering for the top end of the holiday market. I remember in 1996 prices were MUCH higher than they are now. They've seemed to be on a downward spiral ever since but I'm sure you can pull it back.
quote:Originally posted by EgyptTouristProtection: 3- Forcing Bazaar and gift shop sells men to stay inside their shops and never get out of them under any circumstances, prevent them from taking advantage of tourists in all the touristic areas in Egypt.
But we're tourists... We like all this tat...
You know what would be really good, as a tourist?
1) Multi lingual cab drivers outside the hotel that are properly metered - that you know are regulated, licensed whatever and that you know you can trust.
2) No litter.
3) Safe places to cross the street - for everyone, everywhere. It took me 45 minutes to cross a road in Cairo once, it was the equivalent of running across a motorway here - crazy. We really don't like to see people run over and killed in the street (I have, as has one of my colleagues who recently returned). People shouldn't be weaving in and out of traffic. There should be safe places to cross.
4) Sorry, I've a feeling you're not going to like this one, but, shock, horror, some of your young men DO pester the ladies and, shock, horror, we don't like it. When you're late for a flight and some dufus holds you up so he can practice fluttering his eyelashes - ah, this just isn't funny. It's one thing for a waiter to act unprofessionally, but when it's an official in uniform... We tend to trust people in uniform here so I have a big problem with this.
I think basically it boils down to fixing many of the same things as the Egyptians want fixed themselves.
Good luck Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptTouristProtection: Thanks tigerlily_misr for your reply, even if i suggested Egypt to be a piece of paradise you would have disagreed goodbye to you too I would like an opinion from a foreigner who does NOT own a bazaar in Egypt please
Alot of people tend to ignore tigerlily_misr.You did right to say goodbye to her, she does not know anything about Egypt, her google search engine does her work for her.If you understand what i'm saying.
There's alot of people on here who actually live in Egypt maybe they will be more helpful to you.
Nice facebook by the way Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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SG and Ayisha, I agree with all your replies and suggestions
also, having visited the Pyramids several times since 2004 with the last time being in Feb. 2010, I believe that Zahi hawass's efforts to get the area a bit cleaned up/more organized have had a slight impact. . . but it is still a long way from fencing all the tourists away from the Egyptians, lol.
My first visit in 2004, I had a "memorable" experience of being charged too much for a horse ride after being dragged off to visit the tourist shops (perfume, papyrus) before I got to see the Sphinx . . . we were told that the horses couldn't go there . . . but when I asked to get off the horse . . . well, you know how it goes . . . I ended up arguing about paying when asked to pay at the perfume/papyrus shop . . . and I was with an Egyptian who was going around with me for the day to help negotiate, etc !!!! Very naive about all this back then but I did get some great photos of Pyramids.
In Feb. 2010 i walked up to the Pyramids on my own, refused all offers of carriages, horses, camels and walked around on my own. I think a tent with benches and drinks on offer would have been welcomed at some point . . . even in Feb. the sun can be quite fierce. And got on the photos of the Sphinx that I wanted this time.
Posts: 895 | From: NorthTexas, USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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2- Stopping the SEX tourism from Russia and the rest of the east European countries that is coming to Hurghada and Sharm Alsheikh. We do not need the cheap tourism that tarnishes the reputation of Egypt and causes diseases among our young men.
Shanta expressed it well,so i will only add this is blatant discrimination against whatever country. It would be exactly the same if you read that Egypt,Tunisia,Syria...shouldnt be allowed entry into Europe or America because many Arab men could be considered possible rapists.
Posts: 3833 | From: here,there,everywhere | Registered: Nov 2007
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Decent toilet facilities at the Pyramids please When we visited a couple of years ago the only toilet we found was a portacabin. When I went in I discovered there was no lock on the door so I had to hold it shut while hubby stood guard outside, add to this the fact that it was pitch black as there was no lighting and it goes without saying it was non too pleasant Also although I always carry bottled water around with me it would've been nice to have somewhere to get a drink or something to eat and I'm not meaning that I want to see MacDonalds or KFC set up their stall there! I never found any problems regarding beggars or pushy souvenir sellers (maybe they were off that day ) I would hope with the fantastic work being carried out by the animal charities that the horses and camels will see their life improving and the owners will realise that the better they look after them the longer they will live and serve them. If I ever take a ride on a horse and carriage in which ever country that is, I do gravitate towards the one that has obviously been looked after the best. Maybe why I never went on the ones at the Pyramids Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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Setting a fixed price and either sticking it on or near whatever it is for sale, for everything - in the entire country - is a good start. No more charging whatever they think someone can afford.
Doing away with camels and donkeys and horses at the Pyramids would be a tragedy. Selling tickets, for a fixed price, the same price for everyone, would eliminate a lot of the robbery.
If you can figure out how to stop the sex tourism, you might want to let Thailand and other countries know how to do it because they have the same problem. Also, you've only addressed Egyptian men with foreign women. What about foreign men who come to Egypt for the purpose of sex tourism? How will you keep the Saudi men out of the country all summer?
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by young at heart: Decent toilet facilities at the Pyramids please When we visited a couple of years ago the only toilet we found was a portacabin. When I went in I discovered there was no lock on the door so I had to hold it shut while hubby stood guard outside, add to this the fact that it was pitch black as there was no lighting and it goes without saying it was non too pleasant Also although I always carry bottled water around with me it would've been nice to have somewhere to get a drink or something to eat and I'm not meaning that I want to see MacDonalds or KFC set up their stall there! I never found any problems regarding beggars or pushy souvenir sellers (maybe they were off that day ) I would hope with the fantastic work being carried out by the animal charities that the horses and camels will see their life improving and the owners will realise that the better they look after them the longer they will live and serve them. If I ever take a ride on a horse and carriage in which ever country that is, I do gravitate towards the one that has obviously been looked after the best. Maybe why I never went on the ones at the Pyramids
Being able to get drinks at the pyramids would be great and that must have been mentioned a lot at Valley of Kings as they now have a cafe bit, but the rents they are charged means you are paying 25le for a sprite! I am not joking.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Alright folks, thank you all for your great suggestions, when i started the threat i wasn't aware of the possibility of some would antagonize me or judge my attitude, this is absolutely ridiculous, and before you people start to bash me which i really think you had all the intentions for criticism anyway, it's just a passion and i have read this board and saw a lot of new posters being flamed for absolutely no reasons!! Some of the replies have no sense at all and i was hoping those ones would refrain from replying and try not to ruin the cause and the efforts we are making to improve our country, unfortunately some of the posts are identical and have NO core or solid backing specially when talking about the stables in the pyramids area, before you talk about something you don't know you must first know that horses, camels and donkeys have nothing to do with the ancient Egyptian culture and certainly the time period in which the pyramids were built!! what you see there is more of an Arabic culture not EGYPTIAN!!!! Some of you may live in Egypt and have no interest to go to the pyramids and don't know what goes on there but as i mentioned before i was born and raised in the Pyramids area, i know all about it from the parliament members and tours police who provide protection cover for those "Bedouins" and at the end of the day they take a cut! i'm sure some of you have been forced stopped by some of them and open the door and help themselves inside the car while a police officer is standing right next to him!!! All that just to sell you an unwanted and over priced camel trip! We can also talk about the mess and the smell those animals make up there and the unpleasant and uncivilized scenery, you may like it but many do NOT. I was up there a few month a go with a friend of mine and saw one young man parked his camel and asking an elder lady for money, she screamed "for what???" And for those of you who feel so bad for them please don't because they own villas, nice cars bazaars, you don't have to take my word for it but you can go to Nazlet el saman and see for yourself, not to mention the antiquity dealings ran by the head of those families such as Elkhattab family, Elshaer Family and of course Elgabry family which is responsible of what happened in Tahrir square when they hired some of those men with their horses and camels holding swords and whips to run people over and kill them. Now let's talk about bazaars, i do not want to confine them at all, all i'm asking is run their business just like everywhere in the world, i'm sure in UK people don't die inside the Harod's do they? STAY in your shop while you have a good sign telling people what you are selling, sit and wait, isn't that the normal way? why is it too hard for some of you to see our country organized? we are not here to talk because we only want to talk or bash, this is important matter and if you have no constructive ideas please simply pass! i was very happy about the poster who was talking about the mapping system it was a great a idea although GPS will be implemented i'm sure but let's be constructive and not waste each others' time, one more thing, if you are in partnership with someone in a bazaar now i can understand your dilemma, i have seen a lot of foreigners being silent partners in gift shops and such and i see their concerns. as for the cheap tourism, Egypt came to know it only a bout 10 years ago and when it started to flood the country the good tourism is pretty much gone, you can disagree all you want but i listen to Brits and italians crying because of how much they hate the Russians and their loud noises and the unpleasant whorish behavior of their women!! and as for their sex tourism you can only go to www....kunstkamera.net www.dezy-house.ru and see for yourselves and yesss, those men are dogs, gigolos and users and as i said i don't want them near tourists, i want them to be replaced but good hard working young men. finally i hope i will not be called a troll, this could be my last post because i have a lot more important things to do.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Feb 2011
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I don't think anyone's been intentionally antagonistic to you and it is good what you are trying to do.
Most of us on here after all started out as tourists to Egypt even if we do live here now so we know that horse and camel rides to the pyramids are part of the experience and one which most people will only ever experience once and I'm pretty sure horses and camels existed in ancient Egypt!
I was actually in Nazlet el Saman today and a few days ago and yes, it does need a good clean up in many ways, and no doubt there is corruption there as there are in so many parts of Egypt, but they're not all rich. Tourists need to become more aware of the health of the animals they are riding or which are drawing their caleches or whatever and use the money vote to encourage change.
Example today my friend and I were stopped by a horse-owner who unfortunately thought we were vets and he said please help him because he had 10 very sick horses. Anyway, I have passed the information on to Brooke charity because they are working with the horses there.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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What's wrong with everyone? Whatever happened to being nice??
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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Sorry but you asked for ways to improve things I have only seen people giving their views, quite a few who are tourists to your country, so I would imagine they would be able to give an unbiased view of what they would like to see having visited Egypt and the Pyramids. Maybe you have an agenda I don't know but the majority of posters here actually like having a thread that deals with real issues regarding the country for a change.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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I've a feeling the agenda is focused mainly on 'sex tourism' and the pure young men of Egypt being corrupted by wicked East European women.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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EgyptTouristProtection, if you're interested in improving foreign tourism, you should pay attention to what your target market is telling you. You got a lot of opinionated foreigners expressing what they would like and pay for on their NEXT (that's right, REPEAT customers) holiday to Egypt.
I also suggest you contact your ministry of tourism and have a chat about the ADVERTISING campaign they run for Sharm, the "Red Sea Riviera" outside of Egypt! If you don't want to attract a certain type of tourist, then don't advertise to them!
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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Oh yes, the woman in a very high cut swimsuit with stilletto shoes - who on earth wears stilletto shoes round a swimming pool?
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Oh yes, the woman in a very high cut swimsuit with stilletto shoes - who on earth wears stilletto shoes round a swimming pool?
I see now why you are so angry at the world and being pissy, probably because you are jealous because the last time you were in high heels was during queen Nefertiti time? don't mess with me, you don't make sense and you make an idiot out of yourself. I thank those who gave good ideas.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Feb 2011
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Yeah. Hope you're not head of marketing from hereonin. Asking advice as a newbie, getting it and using it to batter those who took time out... thinking they were helping?
Hmm. Great advertising programme.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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Monkey, we are not marketers, we are activists and part of the January 25 group, we don't benefit of this in anyway, we simply love our country and we don't like people to undermined us.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Feb 2011
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Well ok. I have to respect that, if you really are part of that movement, what can I say...
BUT you need to get marketers in to do the job properly. Bullying and belittling prospective tourists isn't the way to go.
Me personally, I've visited Egypt once this year. I was there when the revolution kicked off. I plan to visit another five times this year. My boyfriend is Egyptian though, so I guess that puts a different slant on things.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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bunch of sorry old shoes around here to the exception of course to the decent ones who give good suggestions.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:Originally posted by stayingput: Also, you've only addressed Egyptian men with foreign women. What about foreign men who come to Egypt for the purpose of sex tourism? How will you keep the Saudi men out of the country all summer?
posted
Well good luck to you. Hope it works out.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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