posted
After several stories that I have read in this forum, I think I need to direct this question to victims of Western-Egyptian relationships or even those who were successful.
What makes Westerners fall as prey so easy to exploiting "individuals"?
my opinion: in Europe life has become about competition, career and success. Women are so much fighting for equal jobs, equal wages and equal treatment, they miss out on being women. Sweet-talking women and gentlemen have nearly disappeared, if a man goes out to a bar or club and wants to spend the night with a woman, he can ask and is accepted or refused. Alcohol helps a lot to overcome the last remaining feelings of shyness, men are out to have fun, not to be 'trapped' in a committment. Men are oversaturated with flesh, skin and availability of sex, they don't know how to appriciate a woman any more. The institution of marriage is more and more disappearing, couples just live with each other, shying the committment of marriage (even if they stay in this relationship for many years, many are proud to be considered not married!)
A woman/girl coming to Egypt longs for the sun, the sea, the beach, relaxation. They do not expect to meet somebody who'll flatter them, shower them with compliments that sound so true, besides the man is handsome, kind of exotic, the mood is so romantic and why not believe, that life has come to a turning point and happiness can be meant to be with a foreign man?
Even after the vacations finishes, the women take that dream with them, it may help them overcome their daily routine and their problems at home, they will try to come as often as possible and consider to accept the marriage proposal they get. The men they know in Europoe will not ask for marriage, so they can have sex, this idea is completely strange. They will not mind to spend some money on their boyfriends and husbands, because at home (being emancipated) they would also share the costs of living, the rent, etc. with their men, and they figure since Egypt is after all a developing country, they can give some more than they usually would.
If the egypt. lover claims there is just one paper to be signed because after all it is a local formality, (I refer to Orfi) that makes it possible to live together, in the way the women live together with their boyfriends at home, then why not?
Only over a period of time, the women start to learn more about the differences in the culture, the religious background, the language and many realize they have fallen for a fake romance - and alhamdulillah, some have fallen for a real one!
I would like to say personally, I don't blame the girls and women to fall in love, I blame those frauds and thieves who are using them. Women and girls in Europe have not been raised on those high standards of morality and ethical values as the Egyptian youth (not all may practice what they know, but at least everybody knows where he/she stands, every person knows: considering his/her own cultural, ethical, moral values this is right or this wrong in my society).
Sadly those men are not just using the women for sex and money, they are thereby expressing their utmost disrespect towards those women, adding insult to the whole scam. Because as Egyptians, to only imagine that their daughter, sister, mother.. would have such a relationship with any man would make their own blood boil.
Nobody could have said it better than what you did. You are exactly right. The women find in Egypt something that does not exist anymore in most western countries
Posts: 523 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
question: in the west, women that go on sex tours are called what??????
also, karin has a very, very, very bad view of western men and western society in general. a woman who goes on miscegenetic sex tours to egypt isn't likely to attract a moral (or otherwise) western man. a western man isn't going to waste his time with someone he perceives as defective.
i'm sorry if that's harsh, but compared to karin, it was mild.
quotes:
"Sweet-talking women and gentlemen have nearly disappeared, if a man goes out to a bar or club and wants to spend the night with a woman"
at this point, he would already be considered immoral by most of western society. most of western society would consider him an outcast.
"Alcohol helps a lot to overcome the last remaining feelings of shyness"
wouldn't, at this point, the girl be running full speed away from him?
"Men are oversaturated with flesh, skin and availability of sex, they don't know how to appriciate a woman any more."
i wonder if you are really that dull, or if you are just trying to defame/slander an entire group of people? it's also very bigoted. i wonder what kind of people you hung around with in the west?
"The institution of marriage is more and more disappearing, couples just live with each other, shying the committment of marriage"
unfortunately, that might be true.
"A woman/girl coming to Egypt longs for the sun, the sea, the beach, relaxation. They do not expect to meet somebody who'll flatter them, shower them with compliments that sound so true, besides the man is handsome, kind of exotic, the mood is so romantic and why not believe, that life has come to a turning point and happiness can be meant to be with a foreign man?"
here's the hypocrisy. a western man like this you would see right through.... but because he's not western, he must be ok. it's just another form of racism practiced by western women. in time, this same woman will come on a board like this one and degrade egyptians for the same thing she "supposedly" loved about them.
"I would like to say personally, I don't blame the girls and women to fall in love, I blame those frauds and thieves who are using them."
of course you wouldn't. western women who go on sex tours to egypt will find some way of being the perpetual victim... and now that these men can be clumped together with western men, there is no escape for her. her dream of victimhood is realized... after having lots of immoral sex with both, of course.
western men! beware of western women who go on sex tours. hell, all men beware!
[This message has been edited by arx (edited 06 April 2004).]
The women find in Egypt something that does not exist anymore in most western countries[/
Sorry Mimmi but way too narrow a view. Let me give you a personal example from my family. My nephew is 22 and engaged to be married to his girlfriend who is 23. Yes they choose to live together and have their own flat. They will marry next September 2005 and are both working very hard to save for this and to get the deposit to buy a house together. The cost of the wedding is expensive and although both sets of parents will help, they must contribute too. Just like in Egypt the cost of getting a home together is just so hard these days for young people. These two lovely young people see themselves as a team working together to achieve what they want in life. She is not sitting back expecting him to do it all for her. They want a nice home to start a family after they are married and by her working and helping to save they can do this while they are still young. You only have to look at these two to know they love care and respect each other. They are very special have a wonderful relationship and I promise you very typical of young people today in my country. ( England)
Lighten up on Mimmi. She made a generalization and that was all. Sure there are exceptions to what she said, and your nephew happens to be one. Mimmi was supporting karinfarids post about women coming to Egypt...which I support too. I think she described what happens in the tourist resorts of Egypt VERY WELL!
Congrats to your nephew and his fiance. They sound like a smart couple that hopefully has a bright future ahead of them.
Thank you that was exactly what I ment. I know also a lot of happy couples all over the world young and old ones. But I still think that many of us in the west have lost a lot of our culture and traditions and the respect of others.
Posts: 523 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2004
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Yes it's those generalisations again! and I know I was a bit off topic. I also agree with most of what Karin says. But just as we cannot judge normal Egyptian people by resort types, I don't like the whole of the western world to be judged by a certain type of woman comming to Egypt. And by that I don't mean the ones who come in all innocence and fall in love when it was the last thing they were expecting to happen to them.
Thanks for the congrats I will pass them on. Have a good day Penny
Thank you that was exactly what I ment. I know also a lot of happy couples all over the world young and old ones. But I still think that many of us in the west have lost a lot of our culture and traditions and the respect of others.
Hi Mimmi theres a great new thread there in what you say...... why have we lost our culture and traditions??????
dear Penny, I tried to give a reply to Raymon's question, as general and personal I could. I did not talk for all western men and women, nor for all Egyptian men. The small group in question was those women who come to Egypt and fall for a fake relationship.
Arx; the group of women coming as sex-tourists are a completely different group, but not in the question. Mind you, I believe there are lots of very good men and women in Europe, I'd never generalize this way, after all, my mother, father, brother and friends are Europeans, and so am I. I was reflecting on one segment of our western society only.
I tried to explain to you, the Egyptian, the viewpoint of a western woman in reply to Raymon's question. It is not so easy as to project your Egyptian feelings and background on Europe.
posted
I think KarinFarid summed it up well. Women in the West have little time to be women. To compete in a mans world that have to lose all that femminity. Lets face it to giggalo you have to be good and some of these men are very very good. They know the chat up lines that appeal to these stressed out, over worked, hardend women. Suprise suprise it works time after time. The women open up a side of their nature never seen before and because they are not used to it make bigger mistakes than they would normally.
I have been married to two Arab's and often make a joke that once you have married an Arab you won't marry anyone else. To a certain extent it is true, they are so romantic and exotic and this is so appealing. Even when my late husband was dying of cancer all the nurses in the hospital used to fight to look after him as he was so charming even drugged up and in pain.
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
"in Europe life has become about competition, career and success. Women are so much fighting for equal jobs, equal wages and equal treatment, they miss out on being women."
"Men are oversaturated with flesh, skin and availability of sex, they don't know how to appriciate a woman any more."
"Women and girls in Europe have not been raised on those high standards of morality and ethical values as the Egyptian youth"
as bigoted as the kkk.
akshar:
"I have been married to two Arab's and often make a joke that once you have married an Arab you won't marry anyone else."
yet another bigoted statement. lets replace the term "arab" with "white" or "black" or "indian" etc.
also, by "exotic" i take it you mean you lust for his skin and eye color?
as an egyptian-american, i find jane distaseful. i also fear that most western women find egyptians distasteful for everything jane (and the women like her) finds exotic and appealing in us. this really makes me feel bad.
[This message has been edited by arx (edited 07 April 2004).]
"I have been married to two Arab's and often make a joke that once you have married an Arab you won't marry anyone else."
yet another bigoted statement. lets replace the term "arab" with "white" or "black" or "indian" etc.
also, by "exotic" i take it you mean you lust for his skin and eye color?
as an egyptian-american, i find jane distaseful. i also fear that most western women find egyptians distasteful for everything jane (and the women like her) finds exotic and appealing in us. this really makes me feel bad. [This message has been edited by arx (edited 07 April 2004).]
So give me another generic ternm that describes someone fron Syria and someone from Egypt. I think you will find Arab is the only one and no one other than you finds that term bigoted.
Exotic refers to differences in culture. For example my late husband used to tell me I had camel eyes. Well I can tell you back in the UK we describe camels as exotic. They sure aren't native to Britian.
I should take that chip off your shoulder it must give you back ache
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
it was the statement itself that was bigoted. would it be bigoted to say "once you have a black athelete on your team, you won't want any other"?
exotic refers to culture, lol, lol. that one had to be a joke, lol. it sure didn't sound like you were referring to culture. why not use the term culture then?
the only reason i have a chip on my shoulder is because of women like you.
Lukoshko:
lust is degenerate. a sign of someone who is defective. skin and eye color doesn't turn me on. if it did, in my opinion, i would think something is wrong with me.
[This message has been edited by arx (edited 07 April 2004).]
posted
People, please don't use sharp mockery comments on each other.
My question intended to analyze something I found sort of phenomenal ...
I think Karin's comment is true at many cases that I personally know of. And of course the blame goes for aggressors, not the victims. This does not spare victims the responsibility of being easy catches or preys
dreamcatcher, your suggestions are impossible to apply about warnings for Western Women. It sounds like "Women ... beware! Egyptian men are monsters"
arx, generalization is also a metaphor ... it is normal. It is so so common in Egypt, as a way of expression, just like the Egyptian saying that "the government is corrupted" ... etc. Of course one could understand the point or what was meant.
quote:Originally posted by akshar: Women in the West have little time to be women. To compete in a mans world that have to lose all that femminity.
Women have gained a lot of power anbd influence in many fields in the West. It will continue to be so. In fact, to compete with men you do not need to lose your "femminity". Intellect, confident delivery of your professional expertise, emotional intelligence, and smoothing charm are assets to succeed. no need to wear pants literally and turn into a man! heck no. That would be wiping out a woman's competitive advantage. You do it smartly, you know the man's world, you know yourself, and you strategize smartly to get what you want in the business world. Men (at least younger generation) nowadays look at women as equal competitors who can take their dream jobs before they even know it! One illustration, men in top MBA programs wish they were women, especially during recruiting seasons.
Success does not come easy. People choose and make trade offs in life. Everybody finds her own niche. You find the right balance for yourself. No need to join the race if one does not enjoy it
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 08 April 2004).]
posted
Dear Raymon There is no right answer, for mee i have been in Spain Italy France Germany Holland Belgium last two years and two times in egypt and i dont looking after any man. But in Egypt sure i fall in love, one years ago, and i dont now why and how, i still talking with him i have send him things.And meet him one time. After reading ES i think he is a kind of giggolo and i am so sad. But if i have now better, my yes has been more open. And i think how to warn others.
quote:Originally posted by arx: dreamcatcher is EXACTLY the kind of woman i was talking about. ugh!
Hmmmmm what kind of woman would that be. Who died and made you God. Judge not least we be judged. I adhor people who think they are holier than thou. This is a free forum, I accept u disagree with me, however, ever heard of the word tolerance, no, do not think it is in your vocabury. But if it gives u power trip to take cheap shots go for your life. I will still wish u the best, hey your holiness hope it neva happens 2 u. Walk a mile in another persons shoes then u maybe equiped 2 dish out the dirt. No one is perfect all we can strive to be is to get there, oooops sorry u r already there. A bigot I cannot. I hate ever making judgement calls on people because every1 has a story to tell, even if it is below what you percieve morality to be. I dont like been conned, finished and klaar. So call me all the names under the sun, I have my maker 2 face no one else.
dreamcatcher
------------------ dreamcatcher
Posts: 286 | From: south africa | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
My opinions regarding this topic well I'm a woman from the USA, and I know some men are just going to be jerks and it has nothing to do with the man nationality status or race. Some women on this forum the moment a relationship between Egyptian men goes wrong. They used the forum as a counseling their problems. I get a bit annoyed with some women writing up stereotypes like examples The Egyptian men is the most romantic male on earth and he is prefect and he can't hurt me and once he does hurt me now it's time to type up his name or picture on a Egypt related forum for the users to be Psychologists. Yeah it's true some Egyptian men are romantic also some men in the western countries can be romantic for the women saying these men don't exist in the western countries just haven't found them keep searching and one day maybe will find him there I know recently I found a man from Europe living in the USA that has a kind personality.
Another stereotypes goes to the men in the western countries like this example Europe/USA men not romantic he doesn't know how to treat a woman with respect so now go to Arab countries for the solution to the problem.
I have read some post by some women on this forum that want to bash both Egyptian men and Western men over some men in the regions are jerks but that doesn't mean the whole population of men act like that my advice to the ladies is if a man acts in a disrespectful manner and if he is from a region please don't start thinking that all the men in that region is going to act as you stereotype there are good and bad men every where in this world.
I don't think interracial dating is wrong, but I wish some people would do it more correctly meaning that just not after a man simple because he is of this nationality or race. It really disturbs me reading some posts where some women are brainwashed into thinking this race of men are going to be much better than being with men from their own race or nationality.
I even heard some Egyptian men while being in Egypt for a visit making up stereotypes toward the Egyptian women saying stuff like The Egyptian woman just marries over how much money owns and she nags all the time.
Then giving me a stereotype that the USA woman is easy she doesn't mind having sex before marriage or helping out with money. I just can't stand it all for some men in different regions looking at my nationality status I want a man to look at my inside personality rather than where I'm from and don't have a set stereotype over me as described. I don't just look for in a man because he is of this race and nationality.
I enjoyed my visit in Egypt just avoiding any man that mention sex or giving money without a good cause. I want respect from a man if my future husband be Egyptian or Western so be it God will lead me the way toward a man that is meant for me. If a man mentions stuff like that just too soon meeting him that just shows me he doesn't shows respect for me and not worth my time. I do like to hear sweet words yet I don't want sweet words sent to me just to get valuable stuff that takes time to gain and no way could I gain that in a few weeks knowing a man.
I didn't go to Egypt to just to mate romantically my interests is more of visiting a place with fascinating culture and history.
I know my words sound harsh just my opinions regarding to this topic. When some people hurt us, we all have to be strong individuals and just move on and if you have to be single for a while that's fine take it. I think the problem with some people they get lonely and then will get with any individual that truly not meant for them.
[This message has been edited by Brenda1981 (edited 17 April 2004).]
posted
I also want to point out there I know everyone is entitled to their opinions rather its negative or positive on this forum. I just skip through all the entries that annoys me. This one I just felt like voiceing my opinions.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Brenda1981, I completely agree with u! Too many steriotypes. I mat wonderful men from Italy, France, Russia etc. There are also plenty of romantic kind men all over the world.
Posts: 287 | From: Moscow Russia | Registered: Feb 2004
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What makes Westerners fall as prey so easy to exploiting "individuals"?
Because they are deluded basically. Egyptian men are far too charming and every woman probably thinks that her particular interested individual is genuinly interested because he tells her all the things she wants to hear.
quote:Originally posted by GiggleGirl: every woman probably thinks that her particular interested individual is genuinly interested because he tells her all the things she wants to hear.
not every woman. only some....
Posts: 287 | From: Moscow Russia | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Lukoshko: [QUOTE]Originally posted by GiggleGirl: [b]every woman probably thinks that her particular interested individual is genuinly interested because he tells her all the things she wants to hear.
not every woman. only some....
[/B][/QUOTE]
True...the ones that come on this and whinge, "He said he loved me...he played me and blah blah blah" Tosh!! They shouldn't be so silly as to fall for it! I say serves them right for leaving their minds and common sense at home.
[This message has been edited by GiggleGirl (edited 17 April 2004).]
The original question was general, and karin answered perfectly and with great sensitivity. But of course "general" means there are exceptions. Whether one perceives the general or the exception depends on one's experience.
Everything that karin said is truem more than true. The West is now a lot about competition. It depends what you do exactly, but if you are after career and money, eventually the following happens:
1. people spend long hours at the office and have little time for hobbies and for a rounded balanced life 2. Looking good is expected. It is part of your success. The higher you go, the better you must look. Gym beautician manicure pedicure diet diet diet, and when you finally achieve the body you need, you realize it took so much of your freedom, personality and time you can't even enjoy it. 3. If you marry a successful man just for his success, he usually married you for beauty. Therefore, he expects you to look good and even so he may change you later for a newer model. 4. Many people marry as part of their career success. If there is no love in the marriage, it eventually falls apart. 5. If you have children, they are also expected to be successful.
These things happen to many people who are after success in life. I have seen many unhappy single people and couples who were financially successful. Their entire personality is shaped to fit a public image, and they do not know who they are anymore.
For this reason I believe that a middle aged successful and lonely woman can fall even harder for a con in Egypt, because she is releasing all those years of frustration - and maybe she begins to ask herself whether all the years of hard work to attain passing success were really necessary.
People who are intending to be themselves and who have the courage to go after their dreams may disregard what I wrote above. It does not apply to them.
Egypt has many wonderful trustworthy men. But I ask you, are they in the touristy places? Probably not. You'd have to be accepted into the Egyptian society to meet them.
So please do not be offended that Western women fall so hard for Egyptian men. After all, it is the ultimate compliment
What you say of the modern day western lifestyle for women is very true. So we have two needy sectors of two very different societies. So if only the giggolos had the intelligence to drop the cons and tricks there is the potential for some very happy relationships but that would take honesty and also faith in their religion. Neither of which they are capable of. Oh and the ability to do a hard days work would help!
quote:Originally posted by katrina: arx, there are way more generalizations made in her post. ultimately, we can always speak for ourselves not to generalize,
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 21 April 2004).]
I am not generalizing. I am speaking about what I see around me. There are a few people I know - who used to be friends of mine - who are leading this kind of life. I do not recognize them any more. Most women in this situation have fallen for younger men and brought pain on themselves and their husbands. You have no way of knowing my experiences. Besides, this is a free board and I have as much right to voice my opinion as you.
And of course if you want to interpret something as an insult, you can always find a way to be insulted about most things. But this is a choice you make and not necessarily the truth.
posted
If i travel to egypt again,i will not have a open mind, if someone is nice, i think what do you want. I have learn a lektion of one of the few pure men, and belive, they are clever, when they work as a spyder.If a women get into the spin she dont now how its happend before it is to late.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by attita: If i travel to egypt again,i will not have a open mind, if someone is nice, i think what do you want. I have learn a lektion of one of the few pure men, and belive, they are clever, when they work as a spyder.If a women get into the spin she dont now how its happend before it is to late.
An open mind is fine to take to Egypt it is a credulous one that should be left behind.
When my husband first swore undying love to me it took him months and months before I believed him. That is despite knowing him for 2 1/2 years previously to the declaration.
To believe in anyone, Egyptian or any other on the basis of a 2 week holiday is credulous. To believe in an Egyptian after a 2 year friendship and months of pursuit is to have an open mind.
The Internet is a great introducer then the open minded move on to real life meetings the credulous plan the wedding.
So by all means be careful coming to Egypt but that doesn't mean you can't have a good time and great experiences.
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
quote:Originally posted by Lori: Why are you people fighting over nothing?
The original question was general, and karin answered perfectly and with great sensitivity. But of course "general" means there are exceptions. Whether one perceives the general or the exception depends on one's experience.
Everything that karin said is truem more than true. The West is now a lot about competition. It depends what you do exactly, but if you are after career and money, eventually the following happens:
1. people spend long hours at the office and have little time for hobbies and for a rounded balanced life 2. Looking good is expected. It is part of your success. The higher you go, the better you must look. Gym beautician manicure pedicure diet diet diet, and when you finally achieve the body you need, you realize it took so much of your freedom, personality and time you can't even enjoy it. 3. If you marry a successful man just for his success, he usually married you for beauty. Therefore, he expects you to look good and even so he may change you later for a newer model. 4. Many people marry as part of their career success. If there is no love in the marriage, it eventually falls apart. 5. If you have children, they are also expected to be successful.
These things happen to many people who are after success in life. I have seen many unhappy single people and couples who were financially successful. Their entire personality is shaped to fit a public image, and they do not know who they are anymore.
For this reason I believe that a middle aged successful and lonely woman can fall even harder for a con in Egypt, because she is releasing all those years of frustration - and maybe she begins to ask herself whether all the years of hard work to attain passing success were really necessary.
People who are intending to be themselves and who have the courage to go after their dreams may disregard what I wrote above. It does not apply to them.
Egypt has many wonderful trustworthy men. But I ask you, are they in the touristy places? Probably not. You'd have to be accepted into the Egyptian society to meet them.
So please do not be offended that Western women fall so hard for Egyptian men. After all, it is the ultimate compliment
Lori
Dear Lori,
I totally agree with you that the new life style in the west has created a burden on the shoulders of women more than men. There is a lot of expectations, sacrifices and loneliness. However I am not sure that this is the reason for women , especially successful and accomplished women, falling easily for gigolos. Actually I do not agree in the first place, that successful and accomplished women would fall for gigolos. The main reason for these women loneliness or single life is their high criteria and high expectation of a relation, so it very difficult to imagine that any of them would fall for a claptrap man. Actually, through my personal observation, the very average and not highly educated women , no offence here, are the one who end up falling for those fouls. In my environment there are many cases of some French and British women who are married to much younger men from Egypt and Turkey, whom they met during a vacation. These women are very average, they occupy very humble jobs and most of them end up supporting these gigolos. In the same time most of the highly intellectual women went many times to these countries and still single, I guess they were too smart or did not give up their criteria. So my experiences and observations do not support your argument
Cheers
[This message has been edited by Mooly El Din (edited 23 April 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by Mooly El Din: Dear Lori,
I totally agree with you that the new life style in the west has created a burden on the shoulders of women more than men. There is a lot of expectations, sacrifices and loneliness. However I am not sure that this is the reason for women , especially successful and accomplished women, falling easily for gigolos. Actually I do not agree in the first place, that successful and accomplished women would fall for gigolos. The main reason for these women loneliness or single life is their high criteria and high expectation of a relation, so it very difficult to imagine that any of them would fall for a claptrap man. Actually, through my personal observation, the very average and not highly educated women , no offence here, are the one who end up falling for those fouls. In my environment there are many cases of some French and British women who are married to much younger men from Egypt and Turkey, whom they met during a vacation. These women are very average, they occupy very humble jobs and most of them end up supporting these gigolos. In the same time most of the highly intellectual women went many times to these countries and still single, I guess they were too smart or did not give up their criteria. So my experiences and observations do not support your argument
Actually the more successfull women are getting more and more disallusioned (sic I wish I could spell). I used to be Chairman of a Trade association of Freelancer Contractors 12,000 members although 97% of the membership was male I obviously talked to as many women as poss.
I have to say that the pressures they were under (myself include) was awesome and many of them felt shortchanged as they were actually not getting anything more out of life than their mothers but they were 100 times more stressed.
I am sure everyone has read articles about very succesful women giving it all up and staying at home with the kids.
I also am aware of a number of women that go looking for 'a bit of rough' as potential partners, builders being a favourite as they can repair things for you as well.
So I disagree with you i think intelligent women are just as likely to fall victim.
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
quote:Originally posted by akshar: Actually the more successfull women are getting more and more disallusioned (sic I wish I could spell). I used to be Chairman of a Trade association of Freelancer Contractors 12,000 members although 97% of the membership was male I obviously talked to as many women as poss.
I have to say that the pressures they were under (myself include) was awesome and many of them felt shortchanged as they were actually not getting anything more out of life than their mothers but they were 100 times more stressed.
I am sure everyone has read articles about very succesful women giving it all up and staying at home with the kids.
I also am aware of a number of women that go looking for 'a bit of rough' as potential partners, builders being a favourite as they can repair things for you as well.
So I disagree with you i think intelligent women are just as likely to fall victim.
Of course dear, you have all the right to disagree, as I said I am talking of personal experience. Of course I could not generalize, but the is just my conventions based on my experience and observation. And again it is how you define intellectual and successful women, for me it is very smart, very well educated and exposed women .
quote:Originally posted by Mooly El Din: Of course dear, you have all the right to disagree, as I said I am talking of personal experience. Of course I could not generalize, but the is just my conventions based on my experience and observation. And again it is how you define intellectual and successful women, for me it is very smart, very well educated and exposed women .
Mooly, I think ashkar speaks of another type of intelligence. There is logical intelligence, which together with culture and hard work makes you excel at your career. Strong emotional intelligence also makes you good at your job. But there is also some type of "womanly" intelligence which governs the way a woman handles romantic relationships with men. This intelligence - or is it instinct? should help a woman know when a man is true, honest and a good match for her. It should also help her protect herself.
If a woman works and works and forgets she is a woman, she may become prey to a bad man because she is not used to put her instincts to work. She may otherwise be intelligent and accomplished, and yet act like a fool when meeting a man.
quote:Originally posted by katrina: Wow, that is another quick and hasty conclusion. Insulted? Are you kidding, Lori! oh, well, Lori, when people use their own experiences and make conclusions about larger populations, it is generalizing, but who cares, Lori.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 22 April 2004).]
As I said before, I am speaking of the experiences of people I know. Should I give out names? They would make no sense to you.
All I am saying is there are people having these experiences. Not all of them, just some of them. Just because you have not had such things happen to you doesn't mean they didn't happen to someone else.
I do not understand why you hunt my posts and criticize them, I don't know you and have done nothing against you. Give me a break!
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