posted
why Western woman fall so easy in love with gigolos.???
cause in Western countreys a woman and a man has to work with each other ... i mean if a woman likes a man she goes to him and trys hard to win him
but with the giglos..the men are doing all those flirting with woman and they love the attention that they getting from it...cause they dont get it from the western guys..
quote:Originally posted by Lori: Mooly, I think ashkar speaks of another type of intelligence. There is logical intelligence, which together with culture and hard work makes you excel at your career. Strong emotional intelligence also makes you good at your job. But there is also some type of "womanly" intelligence which governs the way a woman handles romantic relationships with men. This intelligence - or is it instinct? should help a woman know when a man is true, honest and a good match for her. It should also help her protect herself.
If a woman works and works and forgets she is a woman, she may become prey to a bad man because she is not used to put her instincts to work. She may otherwise be intelligent and accomplished, and yet act like a fool when meeting a man.
Agreed
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
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New to the forum but have read this and realised how I was almost taken in by the romance of the Nile it went no further than eye contact, a few nice words a slight touch on the shoulder, hand, but it made me feel really good, a desirable woman. I have come home with good memories, maybe of what might have been or not!!
Posts: 4 | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sunray: New to the forum but have read this and realised how I was almost taken in by the romance of the Nile it went no further than eye contact, a few nice words a slight touch on the shoulder, hand, but it made me feel really good, a desirable woman. I have come home with good memories, maybe of what might have been or not!!
Now that is what I call a holiday romance. Nobody hurt, nothing to far, no superficility just someone coming home feeling good and wondering. If they were all like that then there would be no problem.
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
posted
Maybe Karin needs to consider the movies/TV portrayals of women of the West . . . and how those portrayals affect his view.
Posts: 1 | From: Atlanta, Georgia | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Raymon: After several stories that I have read in this forum, I think I need to direct this question to victims of Western-Egyptian relationships or even those who were successful.
What makes Westerners fall as prey so easy to exploiting "individuals"?
Posts: 9 | From: USA | Registered: May 2004
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Dear Raymon, I think you must know much of the subject...I am new here and trying to learn . sometimes I realize that my emotions are my problem.....I let my heart over rule reality..however ....I do find myself in this situation.....and I am not trying to blame or take blame...just that I love too much....and maybe there is no hope for me and the man I have come to know....especially since I read all the beliefs......I would like to e-mail so .....you can contact me at hominyridge@telepak.net Sincerely Dorothy (belle)
Posts: 9 | From: USA | Registered: May 2004
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Raymon, I have only just seen your question and have found the range of replies astounding. One thing seems to have been omitted though and that is the problem of ageing in the Western World. The Egyptian gigolo promises eternal youth - age does not matter, etc. I would be interested to see a breakdown of the nationalities that fall for the lines that are thrown at them. I suspect that there will be far more English than French. The French have a place for older women; they are allowed to age and still be desirable. In England older women just go shopping. I am not a sex tourist. I have been with only one man in the many years I have been here and I lost a fortune. I have a Masters Degree in Educational Research into Information Technology so I am an 'educated' professional woman. I had all my common sense educated out of me. I asked a friend why I had fallen so easily. "You were clever but you were not street wise. These men have learned to live on their wits". The Tourist Police told me that all the men who earn their living this way have to be charming and believable - how else would they become rich. I believed because I wanted to believe. Nobody but me is responsible for my downfall. When asked if I would do it all again the answer is YES. I love Egypt and most Egyptians - even those that work on the Corniche - but I would never make the same mistake twice. That is what amazes me about European women - they do the same thing several times and lose money repeatedly. Why? What is it about their lack of self-esteem that causes them to do this? Once is understandable - beauty can dazzle the brain as well as the eyes - but twice or in some cases six times speaks of something quite different. Do some of us have a self-destruct button or are we so desperate to believe that out lives have not 'finished' that we will accept anything?
I have been to Hurghada and hated it but I have never been to Sharm. I was surprised (though I should not have been) to see that the problem there is the same as in Luxor. I thought naively that Luxor was a one-off phenomenon.
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DREAMCATCHER, I GOTTA express my TOTAL agreement with u......Women visiting egypt (and Middle Eastern countries) need TO BE WARNED. iN ANY CRIME, the offender takes the blame, not the victim. the victim simply needs to learn the lesson. and warn others. Now about the west being harsh and tough, devoid of morals?: C'mon, I love evrything about the west. Especially London's night life and Spain's parties....and most of all western women...can't lie here!!! Anyway, the best advice u all could get would be from an egyptian/arab woman. They will tell u how to recognize the B.S....so if there is an egyptian woman on here, let yr voice be heard!
Posts: 55 | From: Cairo,Egypt | Registered: May 2004
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"ARAB" IS A GREAT term. i love being an arab and belonging to the Arab world, with all its faults and flaws...nothing is cooler than being an an arab!! U need to recognize the fundemental diefferences between the arab and the western worlds...and act accordingly!
Posts: 55 | From: Cairo,Egypt | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: Monica has just done it superbly on a different topic site.
....................... a cut and paste from ' raising self esteem' as these words from Monica are important in understanding this issue........
Monica .... wrote .... So let me add a point that is directly related to the Egyptian culture/ mentality playing an essential role in cases like yours.
Many Egyptian men, of the same background as your 'partner' was, when given what you have given to him, unfortunately assume that you do so because you have deep weaknesses, and something terribly shameful about you, or wrong with you, even if you are the most loving intelligent woman and , they do not respect you for letting them take advantage of your kindness, and being abused. On the contrary, they feel the urge of abusing you more, and the more you keep giving, the more they feel empowered and abuse you more.
Because of the way MANY of the Egyptian men/type you have described are brought up, mostly in poverty and misery with a lack of morals, and always reminded that the 'foreigners' are better, learning to hustle and bustle to survive, they feel revengeful; and in their uneducated mind they give themselves the right to punish you for having had a better quality of life then they ever had. Therefore, they seduce you in any which way they can, relying on their youth and their performances, having studied the psyche of a foreigner/ older woman /low self esteem to perfection, in order to strike as sharply as possible, and change statute and empower themselves more and more, leaving you behind as the not so useful one anymore. Very sad, unfair and cruel, but a fact. The betrayal/infidelity he committed towards you after you have empowered him is his resentful way of punishing you - while tending to his other selfish needs - showing you who the master is, and how capable of controlling you he is.
posted
I'm agree with you !!!!!! I have had a bad story with egyptian boy.....now i know that the reality is this and now i know as will be my behaviour with them......really !!!!!!
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Luxor Lover I have read your words and they are exactly my feelings like you I have been going to Luxor at least 10 times a year for the last six years have my own property definitely not a sex tourist thought I was street wise as well as intelligent like you found I was wrong. Would love to be able to talk to you about my experiences because I love to watch and observe the other goings on and am as amazed as you are. My e mail if you would be interested is Regencyboat@hotmail.com. The Regency is my favourite cruise ship of Travcos have been on it many times and one of my dearest friends (just a friend) used to work on it before going to UK to work.
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Why do western women fall so easy to (Egyptian) Gigalos? Wouldn't happen to me, but I can make an educated guess or two ...
I'll bet most (package) tourists don't bother to research too deeply into the culture before they come ... as one poster here two days ago asked me, "why would a tourist discuss religion?" Why indeed.
It is very likely that many N.A. tourists have NO IDEA about the mind boggling differences in culture. They won't realise that there is no such thing as "dating" in Egypt. This is more extreme than you realise because it predicates all the Egyptian mens' behaviour. But the tourist won't get that.
The package tourist likely sees precisely what the tourism industry wants them to see. Most Canadians believe Egypt is a very developed country, you know. Thus, when they see a "little old lady with a donkey", it's all very "quaint". They've never experienced anything like "baksheesh" before; they don't realise the full extent of regional poverty - thus they are unprepared for the lengths it might drive some people to. Remember, the tourists frequently don't think of themselves as "rich". By N.A. standards, they often aren't.
In N.A., what gigalos are is a little different. Notably, they are very expensive. So most unwary tourists wouldn't realise that they are talking to one, necessarily, because the stereotype wouldn't fit ...
In North America, a guy would never spout the majority of these sappy poetic lines, quoted above. It just wouldn't be "manly". So the unwary tourist could easily be thrown by this level of romantacism.
Also, in N.A., people can date for years without ever receiving a marriage proposal. In N.A., men do not seek to be married. Marriage does not help their economic status yet it opens them to extreme risk in the event of divorce. Marriage comes after an "engagement period", and engagement comes after the couple has been dating for some time. (As a generalization.) It is entirely possible that a marriage proposal made in Sharm might be the very first proposal the poor tourist has ever heard! Not too hard to be thrown by that!
50% of the Canadians I personally know coming home from vacation in Egypt have spoken of being "trancey/light headed" much of the time. It was too easy for them to become dehydrated, and sleep deprived, suffer sun stroke and heat exhaustion, and at least once during their trip, nauseous. (Which leads to being dehydrated and sleep deprived ...) So, yeah. Maybe western tourists aren't as brilliantly logical as they are at home.
quote:Originally posted by cassia: It is very likely that many N.A. tourists have NO IDEA about the mind boggling differences in culture. They won't realise that there is no such thing as "dating" in Egypt. This is more extreme than you realise because it predicates all the Egyptian mens' behaviour. But the tourist won't get that.
Try telling that to all the couples you will see walking hand in hand by the side of the Nile in Cairo, or the young couples that can’t keep their hands off each other on the buses, or the people who go out to the clubs in Cairo at night, or some of the students. As in any country Egypt is a land of contrasts, particularly when it comes to the big cites, the behaviour there is always more liberal than in the rural areas.
"Now about the west being harsh and tough, devoid of morals?: C'mon, I love evrything about the west. Especially London's night life and Spain's parties"
you completely contradicted yourself. london's nightlife and spain's parties are the places most devoid of morals in the west. if it were allowed, most westerners would vote to stop both london's nightlife and spain's parties and throw it's participants in jail!
....and most of all western women...can't lie here!!!
typical arab male response, no wonder the world has such a low opinion of arabs! you remind me of that ahmed guy who posted here earlier! did you know most western women absolutely hate arabs.... or "filthy" arabs as they usually call us. you know, guys like you just make it so much harder for the rest of us just to live our lives here!
[This message has been edited by arx (edited 25 June 2004).]
[This message has been edited by arx (edited 25 June 2004).]
posted
These generalizations are outrageous. The same women that fall for gigolos in Egypt, would fall for gigolos in the west. By contrast the same type of men that become gigolos in in Egypt are the same type of men that become gigolos in the west. The woman is just as much responsible as the man.
For example , typically in Germany near U.S. Military installations, several women have cried "victim" to the gigolo antics of several U.S. Service men. These women with their "romanticized" views of marrying some man in uniform and coming to the USA to "live happilly ever after" by downright competing with eachother and giving up their bodies so easily, have become pawns in a game that US soldiers play so well. Mind you these same areas are heavily populated with "Arabs", who have become somewhat "insignificant" in comparison to the promising future that could be offered by said Americans. So in this case these so-called "romantic" Arabs have no game. and the so-called "un-romantic" westerners are having a field day with these "victims" of their own high expectations.
Posts: 747 | From: Atlanta, GA USA | Registered: May 2004
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Homeylu - do you live in Egypt? Most of the women I know would never fall for a gigolo in the west - they are not rich enough.
The US military men that you are talking about are not gigolos they are men that play around. There is a marked difference. The ones you talked about are after fun, not money.
There is something that a friend of mine described as Luxor syndrome (but which could be applied to most parts of Egypt). "When you land in Egypt your brains fall out of your bum".
It's a combination of many many things that makes the Egyptian gigolo so successful in getting western women (and gay men) to part with their money. I was supposed to be itelligent, educated, relatively sophisticated (posh accent)and had resisted the charms of all my male students for years but in Egypt I fell at the first fence.
posted
I think that the problem isnt with the Western woman that fall in love with egyptians gigolos, I know a lot of people that fall in love with any foreing guy and doesnt happen like everybody says that happen with the egyptians, the problem i am seeing is with the most part of egyptians guys that always want to take advantage of the western women. I prefer to believe that it isnt true, that the relationships with egyptians have the same problems as any other one.
Posts: 12 | From: Rio de janeiro, Brazil | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Hey Arx....what's immoral about London's night life??? Without the pubs and clubs, what would londoners do? watch Tv? ...London's night life provides jobbs to millions of DJs, bartenders, waiters, AD ajencies, music industry..etc.......Do any westeners actually agree with arx?? Spain's clubs and london's night life are "devoid of morals"? ....what r u , a catholic priest? I'll tell u what is immoral: Poverty stricken Egyptian gigolos victimizing western women, ripping them off, proposing to them to get to the west.......BUT a few drinks at west End pub? or Cafe de Paris??? c,mon
Posts: 55 | From: Cairo,Egypt | Registered: May 2004
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what's immoral about london's night clubs? you mean you have to ask? well, it doesn't matter what you or i think about it, london's night clubs and spain's parties are considered dens of immorality by most westerners. places where the more shady characters go...
Posts: 148 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Gigolos all over the world are PROS, and they know exactly what to do or say, or what kind of music turn on at the right moment. Being on vacation adds the feeling of freedom and detachment from the 'cruel reality' of everyday boredom/life. Concoction created by those ingredients comes into fruition as a fiery romance that will be engraved in the blushing memory forever. UNTIL smitten ladies start shedding cash or whatever benefits that must follow to sustain their bliss. That's the way it works, not only in Egypt. Advice: enjoy the moment, but with your purse tightly closed. When asked for too many favors, say arivederci amore! (Mmmmmmmmm..Italians.... )
Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
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lovealways no problem with playing music, but it depends of the listeners they like it or not!!!!as general people should not hurt each other,if both of them like to enjoy the time,then why not?but believe me sometimes life is very complecated,,,,,,,,,wish y great time
Posts: 273 | From: egypt,aswan | Registered: Jun 2004
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Ahmed, if you are wishing me a great time - thank you dear. I will have one then. Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ahmed2004: lovealways no problem with playing music, but it depends of the listeners they like it or not!!!!as general people should not hurt each other,if both of them like to enjoy the time,then why not?but believe me sometimes life is very complecated,,,,,,,,,wish y great time
I know live can be very difficult...What i have seen in Egypt is to bad...Its Okay when people enjoy time with each other but they have to stay away from my man...what i have seen in egypt its like a movie...and I dont want to play in it anymore...
quote:Originally posted by ahmed2004: lovealways no problem with playing music, but it depends of the listeners they like it or not!!!!as general people should not hurt each other,if both of them like to enjoy the time,then why not?but believe me sometimes life is very complecated,,,,,,,,,wish y great time
I know live can be very difficult...What i have seen in Egypt is to bad...Its Okay when people enjoy time with each other but they have to stay away from my man...what i have seen in egypt its like a movie...and I dont want to play in it anymore...
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Being on vacation adds the feeling of freedom and detachment from the 'cruel reality' of everyday boredom/life. Concoction created by those ingredients comes into fruition as a fiery romance that will be engraved in the blushing memory forever. UNTIL smitten ladies start shedding cash or whatever benefits that must follow to sustain their bliss. That's the way it works, not only in Egypt. Advice: enjoy the moment, but with your purse tightly closed. When asked for too many favors, say arivederci amore! (Mmmmmmmmm..Italians.... 
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