ES is a bit like like this, especially its younger women judges.

If you are in love with a man many years your junior; just wait he is going hurt you and rip you off.

If you are the same age and happy to have children together; just wait he is going hurt you and rip you off.

If you have resolved the children issue either by accepting a second wife or by not wanting children; just wait he is going hurt you and rip you off.

If you have managed to survive the first year living in Egypt and have been accepted by family and friends; just wait he is going hurt you and rip you off.

If you have been married several years and are still happy; just wait he is going hurt you and rip you off.

I think it is a case of heads I win tails you lose.

Every relationship carries an element of risk and no one can eliminate that risk. Just ask yourself how many of your parents and their friends are still married to their original partners. The risk was lower then but it was still a risk.

Nowadays the risk is great, information has come at a price. We know the alternatives and sometimes these can seem so attractive we go for them forgetting what we have had in the past. The current rate of divorce in the US and UK is witness to that. Many of my peers are divorced and on second or third marriges. No they didn't marry an Egyptian and nor is their any great age difference either way. The risk is there.

Young people coming up think they have all the answers but at the end of the day the risk increases every generation as divorce and mobility increase. The risk has increased.

So for all of us the risk has increased, a marriage that has been around a year might not be there next year. I know someone living in luxor who is a second wife with a big age gap between her and her husband and they have been married 15 years. I guess there is still a risk for them.

But risk means it could go either way. Hey stunning news we might actually be happy, having fun and still be doing that next year.

So please don't treat us like the witches never able to prove our relationships are true and loving ones until we are dead.

Go on live a little :0

I think most young people do think they have all the answers, I know I saw life in a very black and white way in my twenties. Is this really intolerance?

There is no way you can pigeon hole relationships, there are too many possible combinations let alone taking into account personalities and compatability. My own relationship does not fit any of the senarios you mention but again I am sure many would think as you say and like you sometimes after reading this board I have panic attacks even though if I walked out of Egypt tomorrow it would be with much more than I came in.

What you say about the risk of second marriages is so true no matter where they take place and given the complications of bringing existing families together the odds are even higher of it not working second time around.

I do however think younger people have much to contribute and I still like to read their views and opinions. They have clear minds that have not been muddied by the waters of life and sometimes this is refreshing and whilst you may then reject the opinion as inexperienced...it may at other times be absolutely spot on.

ES at the moment has got stuck in a groove that seems to focus mainly on the older woman younger man senario and lets be honest when somebody asks for opinions here on this subject... then considering the situations that many of us see in Sharm/ Luxor/ Hurgadah...they are going to get some brutally honest home truths.

The board has not yet recovered from the recent attacks so we are lacking any balance to these stories hopefully soon we will move on again soon.

Carol, you are right. I have been in here for only 2 or 3 weeks, but reading the topics and responses I got aware that those asking an opinion or advise never like what others say and feel attacked which shows that those bringing up certain topics (especially those about men) do not really feel self-confident which clearly is a lack of self-love. As I mentioned in another reply in this forum, we always attract those situations or men into our lives we think we deserve - and it is a sad fact that UNCONSCIOUSLY many women believe they do not deserve the best.

Does this make them feel better about themselves.I thought this was a discussion forum not for personal attacks.

I have taken an interest in the age topic.
I am in a similar situation but the other way round.
I read Ge Ge last post and thought how strange,read it again and noticed the smilie. I think this post was a joke!

Go on live a little :0

[/B][/QUOTE]

Dear Jane,

You are a wonderful woman with a rich and full life. You are also a mature woman. Why does what people say matter so much to you? Most of them have not as much as a tenth of your experience, and while they are entitled to their own opinion, they are far from being experts.

There was a line about age - which is an immotive subject. If people are confident in their relationships then they do not believe that the comments relate to them anyway and will ignore them. Others know that it is the truth and get upset because reality is a harsh place to be. Older women get ripped off - continually - hundreds of them. That is a fact - the police files prove it. If someone is not, then good for them.

The thing to remember is that you CAN buy 'love' and most older women DO - AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Old men buy love too. If you (generic) can give him your money, build him his flats or whatever, secure his children's future and cope with a co-wife then that is fine. Horses for courses. If everything remains in balance then what has been lost. Nothing in this life is free so what is wrong with using financial assets when the physical assets are waning.

Penny was right, the young are sometimes brutally honest and that is not a bad thing. On the other hand the old are not always wise, they are sometimes delusionary.

Did any of you notice the smilie I put on my post.

I am not asking for anyones comments i am merely suggesting that you should open your mind to the richness life has to offer you, try new things, accept that alternatives are just that, neither right nor wrong but alternatives.

I used the witches as an example of what closed minds can do. Another example is chilldren in a foreign resturant. 'I don't like it, its foreign' 'But you haven't tried it' 'Don't care don't like it'

Step out of the box, life is wonderful and there to be enjoyed.

Hmmmmmm my next topic will be......

quote:

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Originally posted by Shareen:

Are you a white witch or a black witch? :S

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However you got the age of my daughter wrong and if you think learning to speak Arabic in a year is not a learning experience, well you try it. I felt it was correct to let her settle into a new life, culture and language before facing the challenges of school. this has been very successful and a recent assesment confirmed that

No we haven't shared a bed, what kind of weirdos do you think we are, polygamy isn't group sex.

The flats were built under Mahmouds name to save costs but are now registered in joint names.

quote:

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Originally posted by Carol_2004:
Akshar my alternative would have never to have posted as much detail as you did in the first place. I am not passing judgement now I'm just reminding you of the details you have posted on the internet.
1. You moved your 13 yr old to Egypt and she has not been in education for over a year
2. You married a very young man with an egyptian wife who never sleep in the same bed as you
3. You paid for flats that you don't even know whether are in your name or not
And the list goes on. If you were reading all this as an outsider you have to admit it all looks a bit sussed! I'm not judging you. In fact quite the opposite it is working for you at the moment. I have never met you and therefore would not have the first clue about your life and whether you really are as happy as you make out or not. All I can go by is what you have posted here and in other forums.

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Usually people with boring hum drum lives like to take an interest in others with more exciting agenda.

Members are sharing experiences,SHARING,they are not asking for advice or critism,this forum is called sharing your egyptian experiences.

Good for Jane if it is working. I couldn't handle what she is doing but hey thats my life and hers is hers.

I do think it was wrong for her to take her 12 year old daughter away from her education and life in the UK but that again is her choice.

At no time did I see any signs of judgement on the last line. Nobody ever said "terrible woman", "burn in hell", etc. All people said was that in their opinion people should "be careful" as everything is not always as it looks or as you wish it to be. Some said age did not matter, some said it did. If everyone had said that age did not matter then there would have been no discussion. It was not a judegement.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Members are sharing experiences,SHARING,they are not asking for advice or critism,this forum is called sharing your egyptian experiences.

GEGE - Share Your Egyptian Experiences - you posted a topic asking a question about DOES AGE REALLY MATTER?

Jane you do not have to explain yourself to anyone here why do you bother, some of them are a lot of saddo"s.
You sound as though you have a very happy and balanced life I only wish my was the same, but this would be the last place I would discuss it and get torn to shreds.[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by akshar:
Gosh you guys are so worthy, serious and self righteous.

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quote:

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Originally posted by newcomer:
A Muslim husband has to offer his wives all the same amount of his time and his wealth, but if any of the wives choose to relinquish either of those rights, or any of the other rights they are entitled to as a wife (as is also the case in a monogamous marriage) they are perfectly entitled to do so. Also if one of the wives has her own independent wealth, it is up to her what she does with it, she may choose to keep it all to herself, share it with her husband, support his other wife/wives and family, or not, as the case may be. If she chooses to share her wealth it is considered to be a good deed and rewarded, but it cannot be asked or expected of her.

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thanks newcomer for saying that

Lori don't put your comment down it was lovely also. I wish you were my daughter

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:
Newcomer has given us a good understanding of how a wife can decide how she uses her wealth and so that explains the imbalance between two wives in this sort of situation.

Sorry but I have got to ask this question as I can't get it out my head.... how do you then balance the imbalance between the children.... a child coming from a western education to a small village is presumably well ahead of her siblings and you would not want her to miss out on her future education compared with what she would have continued to get in the west. So do you the decide they all go to private school or does she just go or what? and then what about college, university etc etc and all those other things that most youngsters including Egyptian ones want these days. How do you keep the balance and stop jealousy arising?

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I think you provide each individual child with the most suitable and best education for that child within the limits of your finances. I know of families in the UK that can only afford to send one child to private school and have to pick the brightest. Tough call.

I have learnt something new here, I have often wondered what happens in the scenario whereby one of the Wives is independantly wealthy, as is the case with Jane.
I have met Jane, although I haven't met her family. I must admit I have often wondered how Islamic it is for one wife to live in relative luxury whilst the other lives without running water. I think this has been explained in Newcomers post.

I do not believe that Jane is a selfish women.I DO believe that her family have benefited significantly from her being part of the family. Putting myself in Jane's shoes, I don't think that I would part with cash, to build a new house for the other wife to live in so that we had equal living conditions. I don't think Jane can be judged for this, it is the Husbands place to ensure equality and I think based on Newcomers comment, it puts the situation, for me, in a whole different light.

Jane obviously loves her daughter dearly and I personally would not be happy with my own child being out of Education for a years duration. However, once again being objective, Jane's daughter has probably experienced a great deal of emotional turmoil in the last 18 months +. Losing a father, emigrating to a new country,getting used to a new family, a new stepfather etc. From one perspective, you could say that most of this could have been avoided, apart from the sad loss of her father. To a certain point I can perhaps understand why Jane felt that it would be beneficial to give her time to adapt. Having said that, I DO think it is essential that Jane DOES make a concerted effort to put her daughter into a good Luxor school as a matter of urgency. I hope that this is not left soley to her husband and that Jane takes control and views the schools herself, and chooses the best one so that Amira gets the best possible opportunities. Although Mahmoud may be well meaning, he probably does not have any concept of what is an acceptable standard of education (by western standards). Although Amira is currently very happy in Luxor, she is still very young and will change so much in the coming years that it would be tragic to deny her the chance to gain a good education and the chance to return to the UK and make a good life for herself if she laters decides this is best option for her.This is simply my opinion.

In person, Jane is a very open. She is more than happy to be questioned about her 'colourful' life choices, something that I would find very intrusive. I do admire this quality in her. She is pleasant company and I do not believe that she has a nasty bone in her body. So please Jane if you read this, don't think I am attacking you!!

quote:

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Originally posted by newcomer:
But basically a man is only responsible for supporting the children of different families equally if they are his own children. [This message has been edited by newcomer (edited 04 September 2004).]

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Yes all very well and fair in theory, but in daily life, when children live together, how do you explain to a child that brother or sister gets better - or worse - clothes, food, education?

What if this inequality extends to the love given to children as well, the time spent playing with them and developing them as people? Would the inequality not affect their self-esteem?

quote:

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Originally posted by newcomer:
You would explain it and manage it hopefully in the best way possible [This message has been edited by newcomer (edited 04 September 2004).]

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A Politically Correct answer!

quote:

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Originally posted by Lori:
A Politically Correct answer!

And what is "The best way possible"?

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Yes Lori glad you bounced this back... how can you deal with this situation. It is not just loss of self esteem, it is jealousy as well and the future relationship between the children.
I remember my husband telling me of a time when they, as children, had to go and live with his uncle because his father was sick and could not work..... he and his sisters got fed after his uncles' children...not the same food and not enough.... you don't forget things like that the pain and humiliation stay with you.

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny:
You don't forget things like that the pain and humiliation stay with you.

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Penny - from your reply it seems you feel strongly with your husband - and with such a perceptive and understanding wife he surely will heal his past and feel better best wishes to you

quote:

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
But why, oh why, oh why, does she keep setting herself up and allowing herself to get hurt by starting lines like this.

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Answer

quote:

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
I have also met Jane and agree that she a friendly and open woman who has a lot to offer - this year has been an adventure for her and I am sure that she has gained a lot from it.

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I think you answered your own question. I feel my experience might help someone else.

When I was deciding on my next step I talked with a number of other ladies who had been there and got the t-shirt. I am still in touch with them. They don't post on this forum but they do read it. Their kind emails to me at the time and subsequently helped me so much. I like to pass on what I have learnt and experinced in the hopes that it will help someone else.

I have been coming to Egypt since 1979, spent 12 years married to one Arab and now 18 months married to another. I feel that kind of experience is valuable to to many of the women that populate these forums. And judging by the amount of emails I get my thoughts are appreciated.

Anyway ES is addictive. I saw someone describe it like a motorway accident, you know you shouldn't slow down and look but you just can't help yourself

quote:

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
posted by GeGe
"You sound as though you have a very happy and balanced life I only wish my was the same, but this would be the last place I would discuss it and get torn to shreds."

GeGe - when I asked you whether you would accept a second wife you went ape about fidelity, yet you wish your life "was the same". Inconsistent desires.

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You see once again you misinterpret what I have said.
I would not for one moment want to be one of many wives,but if that works for Jane that is up to her she seems happy and well balanced.I know many people who have so called normal marriages who are so miserable but stay in them for appearance sake.

So once again, for me, one man, one woman.
I am a very intolerant person and infidelity
is not something I will tolerate under any circumstances.

By the way when I posted the age topic it said does age matter, not does age matter in my relationship and am I going to get ripped off and please advise me.

If I get so called ripped off it will be through my own stupidity and I most certainly would not come on here bleeting about it.If an old dear goes to a disco on a zimmer frame(although I cannot understand why any one over the age of 30 would want to) what the hell does she expect to find there old age pensioners.That is the type of woman who has gone out to look for sex with a young man,lets face it,and in Egypt she will find it,and eventually she will be ripped off,and the young man will be off to his next victim.I have travelled to Egypt for years and I to have seen it.As long as you are aware of the consequences and can accept them that is fine.

I ask you all truthfully........ would you personally take advice from some anonymous name on the internet? Would you listen to someone who may say they know it all, but who in reality may know absolutely nothing except what they have been told or read in books. Even the people who say they live in Egypt, may not actually live there...... who are we to know?
Take me for example, I am Shareen.... a few of you may know me personally, but not many, to the rest of you, I am just Shareen on ES, popping up now and again to stick my twopennorth in. You dont know me, who I am, where I live, if I am in a relationship, nothing..... so why would anyone even listen to me?
Lol, you probably arent! Maybe I am just typing to myself

ARE YOU LISTENING????????? No? Oh well...

quote:

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Originally posted by Lori:
A Politically Correct answer!

And what is "The best way possible"?

---

As far as I know this has not been specified by Islamic law, any more than it specifies how parents should treat children from the same father equally and fairly. The principles are laid down and it is up to each individual family how they implement it depending on their individual circumstances.

As to giving each child equal love as you mentioned earlier, I do not believe that this is possible; love is a feeling and it cannot be controlled and given out in equal measures. Parents may love all their children, but it will never be equally and in the same way. What they can try to control however, is their treatment of their children, and in this they should try as far as is possible to give each child equal treatment according to the age and needs of their children and the parents capabilities at the time, and pray that Allah will guide them to do their best in this.

quote:

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Originally posted by Shareen:
I know Jane personally, both before and since Luxor. And I know her daughter. I do not believe she is setting herself up for anything here, Jane's personality is open and honest, therefore she is happy to tell it like it is for her, warts and all. She does not need advice or to be told she is making a mistake. Believe me, she is willing to listen to constructive criticism and never takes offence at a different viewpoint. And I do know that from personal experience.
Jane's life and the life of her daughter are her responsibility. She is intelligent and well educated and loves her daughter beyond anything. Lol, in fact Jane would probably agree with me when I say she can be overprotective of her daughter. This is nothing I havent already said to Jane in person.
What I dont understand is why how Jane leads her life is such a problem to some of you. She has not asked for advice, she has not asked for insults, and she has not complained about her life. She knows the pitfalls...... thoroughly.
So telling her here, in an anonymous forum, that she is blind or stupid or whatever you want to say, wont make any difference. Only Jane knows her life and her inner thoughts.

I ask you all truthfully........ would you personally take advice from some anonymous name on the internet? Would you listen to someone who may say they know it all, but who in reality may know absolutely nothing except what they have been told or read in books. Even the people who say they live in Egypt, may not actually live there...... who are we to know?
Take me for example, I am Shareen.... a few of you may know me personally, but not many, to the rest of you, I am just Shareen on ES, popping up now and again to stick my twopennorth in. You dont know me, who I am, where I live, if I am in a relationship, nothing..... so why would anyone even listen to me?
Lol, you probably arent! Maybe I am just typing to myself

ARE YOU LISTENING????????? No? Oh well...

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I'm listening honest it was fascinating especiazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor

quote:

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Jane: Offering to share your experience and give advice is commendable but it is not the same as starting a line where you leave yourself open to abuse.

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Stating an opinion will always open you to abuse. Obviously you need the long answer.

Ok why do I do it?

Why do I put myself on the line, be brutally honest and open and try and help others.

It’s my mum’s fault. She had a social conscience and would you believe it she passed it to me.

It’s my dads fault. He was always totally honest about everything, good and bad.

It’s my fault. I love to talk, share, help, be apart of, enjoy, whatever.

I was a member of a cult, some kind soul (blunt lol) put up the details but perhaps you didn’t read them. I put my story on the Internet. I thought if I help one person learnt from that and not get hurt then I have performed a public duty (thanks mum). I have appeared in and on the media about the cult. Hoping to help.

I was a small business, the government bought in a piece of legislation that only affected us. Didn’t say what we were doing was wrong but only that is was wrong for us. Big business could carry on doing the same. I stood up said my piece, my peers thought I was doing it right, after 2 years they voted me chairman of 12,000 members 97% men (am I proud of that of course I am), I was elected unopposed for 2 years until I stood down. It was hard work why did I do it because some had to.

I was a school governor

I stood for local election

I volunteer for fetes and barbecues

My house is always the one holding the annual what ever

Even in Egypt 2 years running we have had Sheik Amin el Dishnawi sing at our ‘Party for the God’, the first year it was my husband’s idea and the second mine. I have suggested that if God allows us we do it every year. The party feeds about 1000 people and another several hundred come for the religious songs.

These and loads more search on my name on the Internet, I am high profile (or use blunts excellent collection to save you time).

All the time why do I do it? Because my mother taught me a duty to my fellow kind. I have needed help, I have given help and some day my child will need the same. Just as I have always been there for others I hope someone will be there for her. It is called sisterhood sometimes, brotherly love others. It is about trying to help others to overcome what you have done yourself.

I originally posted hoping to help GeGe, I felt she was being attacked unfairly and nobody was listening to what she actually said. And no matter what she said she was told that wasn’t enough. So I wondered what was enough for you ghouls? I decided death and posted a humorous comment about that.

Some of you couldn’t see humour if it kicked you in the teeth. Do you look at smilies, they are little icons that tell the reader ‘it is a joke’. It is the Internet equivalent of a tone of voice.

The hurtful comments don’t hurt, you are only voices on the Internet but the supportful ones do support, many of you are real life as well as real friends and the ones that send the emails; Thanks. And if I have helped someone else well that is what it is all about isn’t it?

quote:

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Jane: Offering to share your experience and give advice is commendable but it is not the same as starting a line where you leave yourself open to abuse.

GeGe: Yes I got ripped off because I would not hand over the money - so through a combination of corrupt lawyers and my stupidity he gained it another way. Had I built him a villa in his name he would not have stolen the money to build one. Simple as that. The women that hand the money over do not get ripped off - they have simply given their money away for whatever reason. I have always said that despite being an idiot, I would do it again. It had its moments and damage limitation meant that I did not lose more than I could afford to. I paid for what I had. So do others, but they will never admit it. And yes I did wear rose coloured glasses - I lived in the family home for four years without realising what was happening to my finances. One day, when I know you better, I might tell you the full story of how and why I moved out.

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Is there no way of getting back what was stolen from you.There are some rotten apples out there.Did he not have a job.I am sorry for being abrupt I did not realise your situation, you see, I am guilty of judging before I know the facts.

Jane I do not believe what you just said,

(The hurtful comments don’t hurt, you are only voices on the Internet )

Of late, I have noticed that a New Jane has emerged you seem to ride roughshod over anyone who forms an opinion over what you posted.

I hate to say this because I admired your strenght of character, how hard you have worked your entire life, and you deserve to reap the rewards. So please do not see this as an attack. I think, only my opinion, that what ppl do say to you, hurts like hell, and you try to put on a brave face in all the adversity.
I believe you have great business sense, and this is a way to advertise your business. I have no problem with that, however, I am sticking with LL on this one.
We all open ourselves up to public scrutnity when we post.
Internet for you.