I guess question is what are your expectations when it comes to a woman's professional life, job and Career?
Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
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which men u ask them this question ? Egyptians or Western men ? coz it depends most of Egyptians marry from the same class they belong to .. and as waitesses in Egypt usually belong to low class so not any man can accept her.. may be date her .. but very difficult to marry her Western are much better than Egyptians in this regard ( from my view as Egyptian) coz they take (love factor) into consideration .. so if he loved her .. he never look at her job ..
posted
Is that true of Egyptian waitresses in big hotels? I guess I thought the wait staff at the big hotels had college educations, but had difficulty finding jobs... Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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yes it is true of all waitresses in Egypt .. they all have poor education .. and most of them belong to low class families .. their education is kinda hotlel secondary school and rarely college education .. same men working same job ..
quote:Originally posted by Left.Side.Lying.State.Of.Mind: Is that true of Egyptian waitresses in big hotels? I guess I thought the wait staff at the big hotels had college educations, but had difficulty finding jobs...
Yes some of them have college education
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sharone , the question is , if she is a good mind and soul or not , that is the most important , there alots of high positions from egyptian live aboard began there life as a waiters and clean less than waiters , but cause they are educated or ambicious they learn more and try and try till get a good possitions and complet their success , it is not a dream or a good words , it happen but it is little or rare , so the question is (the good mind and soul than can affect on the future) and beleive me i saw examples here in egypt but (they was men)
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I CANT SEE a PROBLEM IN DATING IF I WAS A MALE I WUD THINK NO PROBLEM THE BLOODY WOMEN AFTER ALL ARE DATING AND MARRYING THER WAITERS .UHMMMM NOT ALOT OF DIFFERENCE ONLY IN ANATOMY ..
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I have to admit to being surprised at the snobbery of some on this thread. In the west, being a waitress or a taxi driver doesn't make you a pariah. Waiters can become hotel managers, taxi drivers earn reasonable livings. This subject wouldn't even arise, in normal conversations.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: I have to admit to being surprised at the snobbery of some on this thread. In the west, being a waitress or a taxi driver doesn't make you a pariah. Waiters can become hotel managers, taxi drivers earn reasonable livings. This subject wouldn't even arise, in normal conversations.
yes, you are right SWYS its a topic very common unfortunately among muslims... and they later are very surprised that other ppl recognized them as ones who are much more directed to money than westerners... other ppl also take into account who is working where but its not so important like in muslim society... most important are feeling for each other and wish to be together than how we make it... tradition is not always the best thing to follow, sometimes new generations are changing traditions because they are not correct with human rights simply.
these are my observation living among western ppl in europe. it is much more different that it is shown in arabic media, also in egypt... we are all, on both sides, disinformed and put into untruth believes when we read and listen tv only.
what means a level among ppl... what is such leveling... its making other ppl superior or degradating others because of their birth place, financial possibilities etc., also faith... sounds like a kind of nazism... so what when one side will gain power over others? kill others not the same level? another hitler?
posted
Although I don't see any connection between this and Islam as muslimman mentioned, but anyhow, if it was for me I wouldn't care if she is waitress or a university professer, the most important is that we click Posts: 50 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jul 2004
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There is a marked difference in the response to the question of status, between east and west. Egypt is not only a more conservative society, it appears positively Dickensian, in how people are judged by economic position.
Snobbery occurs in the west too, of course, but it is frowned on. Anyone stating that they wouldn't marry a waitress or a taxi driver would be seen as socially inept, snobbish and judgmental. In Egypt, it seems perfectly acceptable to judge another human being, purely on vocation - from the responses on this forum.
As always, I enjoy reading your posts, Muslimman. Salam.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: I have to admit to being surprised at the snobbery of some on this thread. In the west, being a waitress or a taxi driver doesn't make you a pariah. Waiters can become hotel managers, taxi drivers earn reasonable livings. This subject wouldn't even arise, in normal conversations.
It is different in Egypt.... waitresses & drivers earn peanuts.... & unfortunately they are not very bright.... only a very small % earned a college degree but can not find a better job that would suit their qualifications.
I am so sorry to say that Egytpians are obssessed with social status & class
I hope we'd change that about ourselves .....
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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It makes me sad when people are judged in this way, like they are not worth as much as any other human being, simply because they are poor. I know it's a fact of life and snobbery exists in every society but that doesn't make it right. On a positive note, if more people like you want it to become better, it will, in time.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: I have to admit to being surprised at the snobbery of some on this thread. In the west, being a waitress or a taxi driver doesn't make you a pariah. Waiters can become hotel managers, taxi drivers earn reasonable livings. This subject wouldn't even arise, in normal conversations.
yes, you are right SWYS its a topic very common unfortunately among muslims... and they later are very surprised that other ppl recognized them as ones who are much more directed to money than westerners... other ppl also take into account who is working where but its not so important like in muslim society... most important are feeling for each other and wish to be together than how we make it... tradition is not always the best thing to follow, sometimes new generations are changing traditions because they are not correct with human rights simply.
these are my observation living among western ppl in europe. it is much more different that it is shown in arabic media, also in egypt... we are all, on both sides, disinformed and put into untruth believes when we read and listen tv only.
what means a level among ppl... what is such leveling... its making other ppl superior or degradating others because of their birth place, financial possibilities etc., also faith... sounds like a kind of nazism... so what when one side will gain power over others? kill others not the same level? another hitler?
thanks for yr answer. salam
Can I join your club???? Love is not about a job -income or status. The qualities and whats in the heart is what matters. You can be married to a rich man you never see because he works so much or a man that beats you up but earns 500.000 a year which doesnt make him a good man. Then I rather marry a man with a low income but a honest job and a good heart.
Posts: 1215 | From: Nowhere | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Muslimman,
As always, I enjoy reading your posts, Muslimman. Salam.
... nice so we are tracking each other Salam
ONLINE ATTRACTION im so sad now i loved ur posts too but im certainly not going to be pig in the middle SO u get in the middle musliman and im toss HEADS OR TAILS SWYS...LOL LOL LOL LOL
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posted
When you live western life question 1) is "Hi, my name is "so and so". What are you doing for living? Question 2) is "How are you?" not another way around. What you do in life for living is very important so please don't believe those who advice you otherwise.
Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by aXXo: Western are much better than Egyptians in this regard ( from my view as Egyptian) coz they take (love factor) into consideration .. so if he loved her .. he never look at her job ..
In West all over the World and beyond, if you are educated, and have great Career and you come from strong background where children are expected to achieve high levels of professional success - you don't marry a waitress or cab driver or truck driver... etc Men usually goes lower but western women - hell no even those who have no HS wants rich and wealthy guys with great jobs.
So why should then a woman or man who has it all, settle for less?
Have you ever read newspapers in west, when 2 people get engaged or they celebrate aniversaries or get married - what excatly they put on the paper?
They put their names and parents names, the age, the name of University they both graduated from and what year, Title of the Current job ( what they do for living ) and sometimes how long they have been dating.
This is very important, people ask you about it all the time! Even strangers on the street you meet for the 1st time will 99% out of 100% ask you = what do you do for living?
They want to know which University you graduated from ( was it public or private, 4 years, 2 years, Masters or Ph'D, what's the level of reputation of your University in your city or often Nationwide ) Where do you work, what company, how long, how stable you are financially, and again - what do you do for living!
Any pubblications, books published so far? Etc.... they ask you about who you are, and you are - what you do.
This is simply the level in which you were brought up and who choses differently ( usally regrets later ) so no I don't see anything wrong and judgmental if person choses for themselves what best suits them. Do you agree?
Another point, You would not advice your precious children to become a taxi driver or waitress so why would anyone feel bad saying the truth that everyone is entitled to what they feel is best for them and we are all striving for the best for our children and interestingly - nobody teach their kids to become a waitress or cabby. Why is that? Why parents sends children to Universities instead?
But on top of it, there is an indication of personal drive, and motivation behind choice of career and job for life. There is a huge difference between a "waitress" - wife and let's say "Doctor" - wife, or "waitress" - wife and "professor" - wife. Do you agree?
Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by the_crow: Although I don't see any connection between this and Islam as muslimman mentioned, but anyhow, if it was for me I wouldn't care if she is waitress or a university professer, the most important is that we click
And what do you do for living - if I may ask?
Posts: 989 | Registered: Aug 2004
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i agree with all u said sharonstone and most of the cases here like this .. but when love speaks .. many other considerations dissapear .. as i see many western girls who come here for visit .. marry a waiter or people from same category .. altough they are highly educated and have all the advatages u mentioned .. Egyptians rarely do this .. or almost never do this .. as the whole world here will be against that marriage .. for the reasons u said .. what i want to say .. it happen in the west more than it happen here ,, much more ,, i saw million marriages like this by my eyes
quote:Originally posted by sharonstone: When you live western life question 1) is "Hi, my name is "so and so". What are you doing for living? Question 2) is "How are you?" not another way around. What you do in life for living is very important so please don't believe those who advice you otherwise.
Your right about the question but in my opinion thats pure out of interest or to have something to talk about. I dont judge people by their answer wether they say unemployed, housewife, waitress, professer, manager or whatever.
Posts: 1215 | From: Nowhere | Registered: Feb 2006
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I hate social snobbery. Should be outlawed. Those found guilty of it should be punished, lightly of course, like having to spend a weekend with someone / some situation they are usually so judgemental about. They might learn something then. More of a rehabilitation programme than punishment.
Posts: 1056 | From: UK, Middle East & Europe | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sharonstone: When you live western life question 1) is "Hi, my name is "so and so". What are you doing for living? Question 2) is "How are you?" not another way around. What you do in life for living is very important so please don't believe those who advice you otherwise.
Your right about the question but in my opinion thats pure out of interest or to have something to talk about. I dont judge people by their answer wether they say unemployed, housewife, waitress, professer, manager or whatever.
Where I live, it is considered boorish and inappropriate to raise the subject of career, in a social setting. This is simply good manners. There will always be someone smarter, richer, better educated than you, so why play this game? Also, if you happen to be the smarter, richer, better educated one would you want to embarrass others and appear immodest?
The vital ingredient missing from Sharonstone's status picture is happiness. All decent parents that I know would rate their child's happiness before his/her partner's job choice. Britain was once a horribly class ridden society but that is being erased. I agree with Dawnbev and Tibe, snobbery is not something to be celebrated in any culture.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Bizarre thread this. And the previous one [cab drivers?] Should be titled 'Do you ask for 3 years bank statements on a first date?' Most ladies don't sell their bodies to the highest bidder do they? Weird. I'd date a serial killer if I liked him enough. well maybe not a serial killer, but a Bahwab, a homeless person, a judge, a rock star [did that once]wtf What is this? QUEEN VICTORIA died in 1903.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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In West all over the World and beyond, if you are educated, and have great Career and you come from strong background where children are expected to achieve high levels of professional success - you don't marry a waitress or cab driver or truck driver... etc Men usually goes lower but western women - hell no even those who have no HS wants rich and wealthy guys with great jobs.
So why should then a woman or man who has it all, settle for less?
.......... Do you agree?
So Sharone Stone, why did you make that thread & post the question if you think you know the answer?
Or are you trying to judge our responses or force yours upon us? Just Curious.... No offence
And BTW, it is so Egyptain.... all those questions.... where do you live, where you come from, which university, what's your job, how much do you earn, who's your family.... bla bla bla
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by jessie: Bizarre thread this. And the previous one [cab drivers?] Should be titled 'Do you ask for 3 years bank statements on a first date?' Most ladies don't sell their bodies to the highest bidder do they? Weird. I'd date a serial killer if I liked him enough. well maybe not a serial killer, but a Bahwab, a homeless person, a judge, a rock star [did that once]wtf What is this? QUEEN VICTORIA died in 1903.
Ha ha ha Jessie. The irony is that some of the world's most successful people have worked as waiters and waitresses. In the west, degree students fund university places by working in the hotel industry. It is hard but honest work.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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IF I WAS A LESBIAN I WUD DATE CANT SEE APROBLEM BUT IM STRAIGHT SO FAR AS YET IF I CHANGE ME MIND YOU WIL BE THE FIRST TO LET U KNOW ...
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Madame M.: I never saw a waitress in Egypt. Only waiters.
The waitresses I have encountered in Egypt have seemed like delightful, upright, family women to me. They come from good families and are well respected by staff. They tread a very fine line, working in such male dominated environments.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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heheheeheh funnny im into cross dressed men think there legs are better while im on the subject whos EGYPTIAN HUSBAND CROSSES THERE LEGS WHEN THEY SIT OR TALK ,,ANY ONE my bloody hubby does i call him so so gay he hate me for that isa insult for them oh well he lives here in england has to get used to the lingo dont like it he can cross his legs the other way and fly away .... Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by aXXo: i see many western girls who come here for visit .. marry a waiter or people from same category .. altough they are highly educated and have all the advatages u mentioned .. Egyptians rarely do this .. or almost never do this .. as the whole world here will be against that marriage .. for the reasons u said .. what i want to say .. it happen in the west more than it happen here ,, much more ,, i saw million marriages like this by my eyes
West dissaproves highly educated people to go lower and marry a waiter or cab driver from the 3rd world country, or from any country, including their own.
When you take your boyfriend to your family - your Dad asks him tons of questions, and of the major ones is - "So what do you do for living?", and educational background is also crucial.
I am talking about tradional families who made it and who have it all, not about other classes who barely care if their children will end up with a cab driver who runs around 24/7 driving all kinds of people around, or CEO of Large Company who tells others what to do, and can afford his family any life style they wish.
Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Chinderella on the Left wing: And BTW, it is so Egyptain.... all those questions.... where do you live, where you come from, which university, what's your job, how much do you earn, who's your family.... bla bla bla
Well question asked was - for men, not for women. From what I see from replies here, most men would NOT marry a waitress.
If you consider me more "Egyptian" in this sense, that's great, because at least I have this much in common, although I am stating again - depending on your class, but in west it's nothing different.
Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by the_crow: Although I don't see any connection between this and Islam as muslimman mentioned, but anyhow, if it was for me I wouldn't care if she is waitress or a university professer, the most important is that we click
And what do you do for living - if I may ask?
I am an engineer Posts: 50 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jul 2004
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The Crow - You are saying then you have no expectations or very low expectations when it comes to a woman's professional life, job and Career.
So you would not mind your wife to be a waitress ( relying on all kinds of people to give her "tips" for living while she serves them drinks or food ) and that's perfectly fine - no need for her to be anything more, but to be a server - right?
If you have such low expectations about your future wife, What do you expect from your children then?
Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sharonstone, what's wrong with you? Why do you reduce people simply to their job qualifications? First of all we are all human beings. You should see people for the persons they are, search for their hearts and souls and don't put your only focus on work and paychecks. You are lacking compassion and understanding. Strange that you speak so low about people with less income. Times are tough; be careful you might have to serve someone one day and you would also like to get respect for your work...... Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Sharonstone, what's wrong with you? Why do you reduce people simply to their job qualifications? First of all we are all human beings. You should see people for the persons they are, search for their hearts and souls and don't put your only focus on work and paychecks. You are lacking compassion and understanding. Strange that you speak so low about people with less income. Times are tough; be careful you might have to serve someone one day and you would also like to get respect for your work......
i agree with this sharonstone .. dont forget that the heart cant see things like carreer and high education ..
quote:Originally posted by sharonstone: The Crow - You are saying then you have no expectations or very low expectations when it comes to a woman's professional life, job and Career.
So you would not mind your wife to be a waitress ( relying on all kinds of people to give her "tips" for living while she serves them drinks or food ) and that's perfectly fine - no need for her to be anything more, but to be a server - right?
If you have such low expectations about your future wife, What do you expect from your children then?
Sharon....wow...I didn't look at it from that prespective. Actually my pov is that u can't judge ppl on their jobs, u can never know what kind of circumstance threw them this way. Basically, a stripper might have a wonderful soul and is tender and sweet which qualifies her as the best woman ever (in my pov) while a doctor can b very cold and demanding which qualifies her as the worst woman in the world (again my pov). So, as falling for a woman, these qualities are what really matter. Again ppl have diff tastes and diff priorities.
So can I ask what do u do for living?
Posts: 50 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jul 2004
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I just like to note something else here. To be a professional waiter or waitress in Germany people have to go through a training of three years to receive the necessary qualifications. To wait on people it's a respectable profession. No one looks down on you. Of course you will also find people who never went through that training, who work in restaurants part-time. But jobs are rare in my country and of course an employer will always look out for the most qualified and suitable candidate to fill an open vacancy.
I would also believe that the girls which are working as waitresses in holiday resorts in Egypt - and which are unfortunately only a few - went through some sort of hotel school training.
I was surprised that in Tunisia the cultural expectations of women are differently. I've seen many waitresses and even more female cleaning personal employed at hotels. Seems like that the Tunisians are more open-minded in regards of women employment. Something was should be more thought about in Egypt.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sharonstone: The Crow - You are saying then you have no expectations or very low expectations when it comes to a woman's professional life, job and Career.
So you would not mind your wife to be a waitress ( relying on all kinds of people to give her "tips" for living while she serves them drinks or food ) and that's perfectly fine - no need for her to be anything more, but to be a server - right?
If you have such low expectations about your future wife, What do you expect from your children then?
I expect them to become wonderfull loving human beings - I will not set goals for them other than that. What kind of job they choose or who they marry is up to them. But one thing they can be sure of -is my love no matter what they choose to become........ Posts: 1215 | From: Nowhere | Registered: Feb 2006
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Yes, Tibe is right, unconditional love is the most important thing what you can offer to your own child throughout life. Children are a product of their parents, you can educate them, you can guide them but in the end they have to make their own choices in life whether there will be good or bad.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sharon, I sincerely hope for you that you fall in love with a waiter or cab driver who just knocks you off your socks and you don't care anymore how big his paycheck is or if he has a doctor title or not. That you feel totally happiness with the person you are with and you enjoy the simple things in life...... remember the best things in life are for free, you can't buy them no matter how much money you have. Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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as long as they are honest, decent people it doesn't matter what they do. Waitressing, serving whatever, surely that is better than drug dealing, stealing, murdering etc. Or would sharonestone prefer a criminal laundering a million $ a year, at least she would have the riches, but I'd rather have the good heart and character any day. About 4 years ago I dated a millionaire for 6 months - he got dumped cos he was a cruel liar and manipulator and messed me about.
Posts: 1056 | From: UK, Middle East & Europe | Registered: Jun 2006
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Tigerlily and DawnBev you were extremly right the person must look for what last forever not what be able to be broken any time .
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