posted
is it coz of the big corruption here ? or our traditions is weared ? .. or they cant accept muslim community ? or low standard of living ? or they think we have weared mentalitles ? or they think they will not have the freedom they have in their own countries ? can u clarify the matter for me thanx
Posts: 79 | From: cairo | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I never lived there but spent a week and a half there. I can only speak for myself on this matter, not anyone else. The reasons I would find it hard to live there:
1. Not all, but almost every man I encountered was trying to harrass or even worse, molest me and I was dressed conservatively. So if that falls under your definition above of weird metalities than so be it. I just wanted to do my thing without being bothered. I think it is rediculous the way the men in Egypt assume that a western woman who is not in the company of a man is a slut and ready to get it on with every man she sees. Yes, there are women like this, but all women are not like the ones portrayed in movies or on TV.
2.Because of the problems mentioned in #1 I felt my freedom was taken away to go around the down doing the things I wanted. I felt it was very difficult to go outside by myself and I am usually considered a very tough and strong woman here in the USA. I was also charged more and taken advantage of moneywise because I was foreign and I didn't care for that.
3. I did feel my freedom was somewhat limited because of the driving conditions in Egypt. I am a person who drives everywhere all the time, even for a bit of boredom relief or as time to think. I have driven all over the USA and Canada alone, but I would be absolutely terrified to drive in Egypt and probably would only do it in a rural place, but I would not live in rural Egypt.
4. I would also be way too hot in Egypt during most months of the year and it would be extremely uncomfortable to have to cover up all the time. I like to wear shorts and short sleeves in the summer and not have anyone look at me twice for doing so. To give you an idea I found the temperature in Egypt in late December and Early January to be quite pleasant, so Spring/Fall would be uncofortable and Summer would be unbearable.
Those are the big negatives as to why I would not like living in Egypt, and yes I have thought about it and been offered well paying jobs. I happened to like Egypt a lot and when you are in a foreign country you must live like the natives, however the natives should treat a woman with the same respect as a native woman until she proves herself unworthy of that respect.
Now were you speaking of western women in general living in Egypt, or a western woman married to an Egyptian, because that may cause certain reasons to change a bit?
Posts: 333 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Some other things to consider are that the reasons will vary from woman to woman based on what she can and can't live with or without. Also it might vary according to the location in Egypt you are talking about a western woman living. I found being in Cairo difficult because it was so dirty and polluted, I could barely breathe and had to take allergy medicine everyday. It also didn't have enough beauty and grass, trees, flowers, etc. for me. I was harrassed by men LESS in Alexandria and found it much cleaner and much more beautiful.
Posts: 333 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
well i am actually speaking of married to Egyptian and live with him in Egypt .. but u arised some good points .. being harrassed is hapening to all girls here but the case increase with foreigners i know that but if u are with ur husband no one will dare to raise his eyes to you .. of corse u will not be with ur husband all the time but at least most of it .. but why it was very difficult to go outside by urself coz of harrassment or something different? about charging more this is fact .. but still if u have Egyptian husband this problem will never exist. about driving i know the traffic in Egypt and it is really terrifying to drive here but actually i seen many foreginers drive thier own cars here .. so it can be .. but little difficult.. about temprature this is also fact but it is only unbearable in June July August .. but otherwise is ok .. dont forget that snow for us is unbearable at all coz we never lived in temprature like this .. but most of us can deal with the situation .. so i think any body can deal with our hot whether .. and it is not very much hot like u think we are not in the heart of Africa .. we are medetranian country .. and this clothes issue depend from some one to other .. thank u FairyDust for sharing ur opinion u aroused some very good points
posted
u know FairyDust i think (and this is only my opinion) that a girl in love can deal with all problems u said .. to be with her lover .. am i right or wrong ?
quote:Originally posted by aXXo: is it coz of the big corruption here ? or our traditions is weared ? .. or they cant accept muslim community ? or low standard of living ? or they think we have weared mentalitles ? or they think they will not have the freedom they have in their own countries ? can u clarify the matter for me thanx
I lived in Egypt until recently and I have to say I enjoyed it immensely. I was fasinated by the traditions and often participated when the opportunity arose.
I had no problems with the muslim community and converted after 2 years(humdulliah), being a foreigner I found my outgoings were more expensive, electricity, food, etc then friends and neighbours, but equal to other relatives.
To begin with i did find the mentality strange however I got used to it quickly and have picked good and bad things up, I blend in quite well !!!
In the beginning until I learnt how to get around, by myself and could speak the language, I was restricted as to where I went I had to depend on friends to be free to accompany me, however when I learnt the langauage and knew how to get around I felt happier, and took my mother and aunt round cairo on shopping trips, where only Egyptians go!!!
I think with any knew thing it takes time to adjsut and learn what will help us to interact into a new community. I have friends that have lived in Egypt for 20+ years however they feel isolated as they don't go out alone, they can't express themselves in arabic fluently.
I think it's down to the individual and What they want in life and what their expectations are.
As i said i'm missing Egypt badly and would love to go back, one day inshallah
Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I guess i'm lucky as I was never overcharged as I was taught how to be firm and deal with different people in different situations,.
I was married but I wasn't if you follow, he wouldn't go out with me so I would take myself off, with my mum and aunt. I used to take a taxi from my home to get the bus to work and humdulliah I never had any problems, neither did another friend when she lived there for 6 months.
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
thank u for sharing ur experience WOTEVER and as i see it depends from some one to other like i said .. so some people can deal with their living here .. some consider it difficult .. but dont forget that u was with ur mam and aunt and i think the case will be different if u was alone .. dont u think same ?
posted
Axxo, First of all you asked for opinions, and so I gave a very honest answer to your questions and it sounded like you were trying to defend your country against my answers. You shouldn't feel that way, if someone chooses to live in Egypt then they should be willing to adapt to the ways of the country. The only thing I feel Egyptians should change is their attitudes of harrasing women. If you are really trying to understand why a western woman would find it difficult to live there, then don't say but......... to everything a western woman will say to you, you must take it in and think about it from their perspective, especially if you are thinking of marrying or have married a western women. If you say but this or but that........then you are saying what she has said isn't important or valid, even though it is what she feels about living in Egypt.
i know that but if u are with ur husband no one will dare to raise his eyes to you .. of corse u will not be with ur husband all the time but at least most of it .. The point was that even if I am married to an Egyptian, which I will be in the next year or so, I don't want to have to depend on him being with me all the time or wherever I go, I like to be alone or at least have the option if I want to go do something (like go for a walk).
but why it was very difficult to go outside by urself coz of harrassment or something different? HARRASSMENT
about charging more this is fact .. but still if u have Egyptian husband this problem will never exist It will if he isn't with me, which I discussed above-don't want him with me 24/7 (western women can be like this)
i know the traffic in Egypt and it is really terrifying to drive here but actually i seen many foreginers drive thier own cars here .. so it can be .. but little difficult.. I never said it couldn't be done, but I do not want to do it
about temprature this is also fact but it is only unbearable in June July August .. but otherwise is ok .. dont forget that snow for us is unbearable at all coz we never lived in temprature like this
I said the temperature thing was my issue, and I don't want to be uncomfortable 6 months out of the year and unbearable for 3 months. You asked about western women in Egypt, not Egyptians in Snow???
Posts: 333 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by aXXo: u know FairyDust i think (and this is only my opinion) that a girl in love can deal with all problems u said .. to be with her lover .. am i right or wrong ?
I could, but some women would not be able to. Also, it will take understanding and compromise on the Egyptian husbands part to truly empathize and think about how she feels, not just try to come up with excuses as to why she should get over it.
Posts: 333 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
i wasnt defending my country .. coz i know my country .. i dont have to defend it .. i was trying to make all clear for all those who think of coming to live here and have no idea about the situation .. so this topic will be useful to them ..
i seems that u want me to take ur opinion and dont negotiate it .. is this the American freedom ? of corse i must say but .. to all i see not very true of what u said .. u lived here 10 days so not all ur views are correct ..
of corse u can go alone to walk or to whatever u want .. here all girls do all they want .. but i mean that u will not alone all the time .. u have some one to depend on when u have difficult situation .. u misunderstand me in this regard
u dont have to be with ur husband 24/7 to pay fair money .. again u dont get me right .. i say that with his help .. u will know prices of every thing so u can deal with people when u alone ..
u dont want to drive in Egypt .. this is ur personal case .. dont generalize it .. coz thousands of foreigners drive here ..
when i spoke of Egyptians in snow i was giving example .. i dont know u understand this as example or as what ?
posted
Don't tell me my opionions are valid, you asked for reasons and I gave them to you. I NEVER genralized anything, on the contrary I tried to make it clear that all of this was only one persons experience and reasons. So I don't understand where you are coming from. Nevermind, sorry I tried to help you.
Posts: 333 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
This topic is "why western women consider living in Egypt difficult" - not "why western women consider living in Egypt easy" so naturally people will point difficulties as that's what OP was asking about - to learn more.
I think, the topic is very good ( please post more ) and I hope everyone actually can read replies without getting offended. I did not get an impression that OP was defending his country. I think he posted this topic to learn more. Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Good point Sharon, perhaps I didn't communicate as well as I could have about the defending his country......he was defending each of my cocerns with what he thought was a quick fix to each problem as how he saw it, but with a woman in a new country, the quick fix isn't what she needs, she needs depth of understanding to the problem and empathy and a long term fix or encouragment to what is really bothering her. For example the harrasment and not being able to go out alone without being harrassed, the issue may be deeper than having him escort her everywhere, it may be loss of independence and he should try to recognize that. I hope that communicated the point more clearly.
Posts: 333 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
i give this name to the topic ... coz my girlfriend will come and here in Egypt and we will marry .. so when i say this to any body here .. they see the matter as (difficult for her) so i was trying to know from the girls who already married and live here .. what is difficult here ..
posted
Yes, Fairy Dust, I agree with you. I had an opportunity to meet this Egyptian gentleman aXXo in another topic of mine ( he is new member ) and I was really impressed by his willingness to reply, participate and talk about it because that doesn't happen often you know. I learned a lot from him just because he is a nice and kind Egyptian who is happy to help and inform. So it must be some misscommunication in regards of this subject.
I guess people all over the world who decide to settle in some other country other than their homeland go through some kind of challenges, but to me it would be hard to settle * permanently * in Egypt because it's harsher and less free country in comparison with freedoms and rights I have here. Or at least that is my perception.
Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, I have had a rather lengthy conversation with him via private messages and I think we are past the misunderstandings.
Posts: 333 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
thank u Sharon for ur nice words about me .. and as FairyDust said we made and end to the misunderstanding .. thanks to all who ready to help and share the experience
posted
Axxo and Fairy Dust, I am going to share more and give some perceptions I have about the topic, but I have to go now. Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
u know Sharon .. really all i want is to be sure she will be happy here .. i will do all i can ..all my best .. but i ask of other things which not in my hand .. she trust me and i want be worthy of her trust .. that is all
posted
Well you are a good and caring person and you asked good questions. At least you were trying to see it from others people perspective. I wish if more Egyptian think and act like you. You are considerate. I think, she is maybe a lucky woman.
Posts: 83 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
u know Sharon .. really all i want is to be sure she will be happy here .. i will do all i can ..all my best .. but i ask of other things which not in my hand .. she trust me and i want be worthy of her trust .. that is all
Hello aXXo how are you?
Its exactly what my boy friend feel about me, he is very scare that I will not be happy, in Egypt.
I lived in Egypt for only 4 weeks so my opinions is not very mportant, but during my stay this is what I felt:
In my country almost of all my Friends are from Morocco, and Algeria, and I spend all my childhood with them hanging and playing around. one of my best friend’s family even take me one day on holiday with them, in Morocco for 2 months when I was 18 years old. Having spending all my childhood with them has helped me a lot to deal and understand Egyptian, their culture is not the same but very similar.
When I was in Cairo for example, and wanted to buy something in shop, I knew that if I spoke in English to the sales assistant, would guess I’m not Egyptian and would probably overcharged me. What I use to do is to take what I wanted to buy, and put it on the counter, AVOID EYE CONTACT which is very important, and did not speak a word. I knew from my friend exactly how much I should pay, and by the time the sales assistance realised I was not Egyptian (if he realised) I was already gone.
If I wanted something and could not avoid talking, or did not know how to say it in Arabic, I use to ask some people in the street to help me out to buy what I wanted. people was very friendly and often went out of their ways to help me out. Same when I wanted to go somewhere by taxi, if my friends were not with me, I didn’t mind to ask some people in the street, how much I should pay for my journey, and some people would even talk directly to the taxi driver to make sure I was not going to be over charge.
What I have found difficult at first is the standard of live which is very different from what I’m use to, but after a while I realised that is not the most important thing in life. But not be able to be free was a problem for me, is like I could not breath, and still don’t know how I will deal with it when I will be living there for good.
Posts: 1182 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by aXXo: i give this name to the topic ... coz my girlfriend will come and here in Egypt and we will marry .. so when i say this to any body here .. they see the matter as (difficult for her) so i was trying to know from the girls who already married and live here .. what is difficult here ..
aXXo.. first...congrats.. second... women are not the same all over the world.. i spend with my brazilian wife around half the year in Egypt...not continious though.. but we make around 2 or 3 visits a year.. she found in the beginning language was her biggest difficulty.. second was food habbits.. three was the outrageous heat...that in Sao Paulo we cann`t imagine ... she started some classes in the syrian center in Brazil.. and then some classes in Cairo...but was confusing as you know...syrians speak differently... best thing is to study egyptian dialect...so she can indulge herself easy in the society...and would break that wall between her and the society.. she now likes the food..specially sea food we always bring from the red sea..either in suez or ein sukhna.. she still have the heat problem... and that is why we are now in Egypt after the peak of heat is over... i guess...!!!!!! my wife loves to stay in Egypt one day for keeps.. problem is our work stands in the way... and she loves the saftey there... and she never witnessed any difficulty with ppl harrasing her or treating her bad... the opposite...she is always telling me that ppl in Egypt treat foriegn women like queens.. and she enjoys that very much..
all what i told you here is based on my personnel experience..with my wife.. your wife to be can be different than my wife... all the luck..
Posts: 165 | From: Săo paulo/Brazil Cairo/Egypt | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I do understand about the overcharging and the harassment but if you tough it out all that goes away as more and more people know who you are.
I have been living here for over 3 years and on the West Bank of Luxor where I am known nobody hassles me and lots of shops charge me exactly the same as an Egyptian.
At first I did go everywhere with my husband and this helped identify me as his wife and not a tourist. After about 6 months I started going by myself and now I do everything by myself.
The big thing about hassle is to make sure everyone knows you won't tolerate it and word gets around. During the first few months I was here a man shouted out after me and called me 'sharmouta' which means prostitute. Rather than just ignoring it I rounded on him and slapped his face. Everyone around me was on my side and he apologised. I met a couple of my husband friends 5 minutes later and told them about it and they insisted on returning with me to this man and further telling him off. You better believe it word got around lol My mother in law told me I should have taking of my shoes and hit him with the soles, this is a gross insult. If you have assistance from your family and friends harassment soon disappears.
When you are buying anything new find out the rough price before hand and just insist on paying the right price. While I am out shopping I will sometimes phone my husband or he family and ask what I should pay. This technique is quite good even if you don't actually make the call. pretend to get off the phone and tell him the right price.
I think with the right attitude living here is much better than the West
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by akshar: I do understand about the overcharging and the harassment but if you tough it out all that goes away as more and more people know who you are.
I have been living here for over 3 years and on the West Bank of Luxor where I am known nobody hassles me and lots of shops charge me exactly the same as an Egyptian.
At first I did go everywhere with my husband and this helped identify me as his wife and not a tourist. After about 6 months I started going by myself and now I do everything by myself.
The big thing about hassle is to make sure everyone knows you won't tolerate it and word gets around. During the first few months I was here a man shouted out after me and called me 'sharmouta' which means prostitute. Rather than just ignoring it I rounded on him and slapped his face. Everyone around me was on my side and he apologised. I met a couple of my husband friends 5 minutes later and told them about it and they insisted on returning with me to this man and further telling him off. You better believe it word got around lol My mother in law told me I should have taking of my shoes and hit him with the soles, this is a gross insult. If you have assistance from your family and friends harassment soon disappears.
When you are buying anything new find out the rough price before hand and just insist on paying the right price. While I am out shopping I will sometimes phone my husband or he family and ask what I should pay. This technique is quite good even if you don't actually make the call. pretend to get off the phone and tell him the right price.
I think with the right attitude living here is much better than the West
couldn`t agree more... and way to go girl... i loved what you did to that bastard, he got what he deserves.. my wife was called the same in Luxur last january.. and the guy didn`t imagine that i could understand arabic... as i was dressed up all in Brazilian flag, he got from me a punch in the face, and started bleeding, infront of the police blue truck, no one defended him, and he actually was taken by police away, ppl would treat you as how you want them to, and what youstand for is the factor in all this.. please send my best regards to your mom in law.. she is.....wonderful
Posts: 165 | From: Săo paulo/Brazil Cairo/Egypt | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
I think with the right attitude living here is much better than the West [/QB]
Yes, i agree with akshar... that is the key to live anywhere else than in your own country... not only in Egypt. Just right attitude and wish to observe and implement new things to new situation you are in... if you decided to stay out of your country you have to get used to this new situation and try to find a way to live there with pleasure not with pain... if it is so difficult you cant stand it... better go home but if its not possible to come back home... better to find the way to live happily and learn how to do it in other place also. I like travelling so much and i know how difficult is accepting other cultures for longer time and dont have access to your own country... but after some time you get a distance from that and you see more and more new possibilities and nice things that you were not able to see at the beginning...
so just open mind and heart and right attitude... wish you all Posts: 119 | From: Poland, US, Egypt, Australia... anywhere | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I also think that when you are from a Mediterranean culture, country it is much more easy to accustom the Egyptian one.
Paulistano Having met a lot of Brazilian people in London, from what I’ve seen Im not surprise that your wife loved to stay in Cairo, I met some western girls who were complaining for example, that people would come to their house unannounced; they would call them on the mobile, late on the evening. This kind of details never ever bothers me at all, as in my culture friends and family come in my family house whenever they want, or call late on the evening, sometimes some of my parents friend would come to visit us while we have our lunch or dinner, in this case they would eventually share our meal with us
Posts: 1182 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
The big thing about hassle is to make sure everyone knows you won't tolerate it and word gets around. During the first few months I was here a man shouted out after me and called me 'sharmouta' which means prostitute. Rather than just ignoring it I rounded on him and slapped his face. Everyone around me was on my side and he apologised. I met a couple of my husband friends 5 minutes later and told them about it and they insisted on returning with me to this man and further telling him off. You better believe it word got around lol My mother in law told me I should have taking of my shoes and hit him with the soles, this is a gross insult. If you have assistance from your family and friends harassment soon disappears.
You slapped his face that great I would have never dare to do that and did he try to slappe you back?
You remaind me my German friend who lives now in Cairo, she told me that what she had to fight a lot with local shops before they would charge her the normal price. One day she told me that she physicly fight with one of the guy in the street too as he did not want to give her the correct change.
Posts: 1182 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Of course when you have enough money or assets in the community to be considered part of the top 5% the authorities will back you up.
In Saidi country often times western retirees are the bulk of the top 5%, but back in the home communities they'd be in the bottom 30%. So naturally life is good for them in Saidi country.
But in Cairo and more north Egyptians are more affluent so putting 30,000GBP into your lover doesn't really lift the brow of a policeman or anyone for that matter. And thus farther north and away from touristy areas the way you behave and which family you are attach to goes a long ways.
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
Good luck to you and your girlfriend. Although I don't live in Egypt, I have spent a considerable length of time there and agree with some of the comments above. Our Egyptian friends are an excellent model for the decency of men there. Regrettably, the behaviour of Egyptian men, in general circumstances, leaves much to be desired.
Even if a woman behaves properly, dresses with decorum, acts modestly, she will encounter problems. This is unacceptable. Of course, men behave inappropriately, in the west too, but they have way more respect for women, in general circumstances (shopping, etc.)
The good news is that women can learn how to handle inappropriate behaviour. Akshar's advice is spot on - react with fury. Shame men who behave badly. This works. It also gives you way more confidence, knowing how to deal with it.
It's a pity tourists don't learn more about Egyptian culture, before visiting. If they did, husbands wouldn't smile stupidly, when men tell them how beautiful their wives are. Women wouldn't indulge such (often)false flattery either.
My husband has actually stopped lots of men, whom have made comments about me and given them hell. He has pointed out that he wouldn't treat an Egyptian woman with such disrespect and expected the same courtesy. The men concerned have been extremely apologetic, not to mention surprised. I wish more western people would discourage sleazy behaviour, from some Egyptian men.
Regarding shopping, it depends where you live. Cairo is much easier to shop in than Luxor or the Red Sea. I'm sure your girlfriend will get the hang of this, with your guidance. Good luck.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
thank u all for sharing ur experiences and i am proud of you akshar u gave that bastard good lesson .. and ur mother in law is right ..
i am good Souri and how are u ?
i think it is individual thing and she who want live here can do it and she can make every body respect her .. of corse not all girls can hit the bastard like akshar but at least if she start make fight in the street like to raise her voice .. she will find all PPL in the street in her side .. this is one of the positiveness in the Egyptian PPL .. so i hope all will be fine to all who live here and to my Girlfriend when she come ..
posted
axxo I wasn't with my mum and aunt they only came for a holiday, I was married but suffering, had no help or support.
Once I knew my way home I could go anywhere, without any hassle on the streets or in taxis I was very lucky as I do know of people (foreign and egyptian) that suffered on a daily basis with taxi drivers etc.
I also know of a danish girl that lived in giza and she had no problems getting out and about.
You have to learn quickly how to handle people and different situations.
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
good morning WOTEVER so i misunderstood ur words .. i thought ur mama is here with you .. any way u are lucky coz u wasnt been is stupid situations with harrassers or stupid Taxi drivers coz u know .. even my sister suffer from those taxi drivers when she go or back from her university .. and the golden rule to any girl in Egypt about taxis .. as i stated it to my sister .. before u put ur feet inside the taxi .. try to write the taxi's number on a paper or on ur mobile and as possible as u can let the driver see u doing this .. he will then never think of any bad to you once one taxi driver harrassed my sister during her way back home and she was lucky coz me and my brother were home .. so she send us an SMS and we waited her untill she arrived .. then she get her self out of the taxi and screamed calling out names .. we run and catch the taxi driver .. i am not violent by nature so i was thinking of giving him a lesson in morals .. but for his bad luck my brother is very aggressive and he broke the driver nose and his arm so as u see .. not only foreginers .. but important is how to deal with the situation .. like my naughty sister did and of corse this is not every day case with taxi drivers .. this is once in the million case
posted
Axxo is absolutely right, regarding the response of Egyptian people to men behaving inappropriately. On the very few occasions I have had to resort to pointing out haram behaviour loudly, people rushed to help - shaming the perpetrators further. Knowing that there are so many decent people around helps build confidence.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why western females consider living in Egypt difficult?
It IS difficult to live in Egypt for westerners male and female. I have even heard complaints from non westerners.. other arabs. My anti Egypt soirees used to involve all nationalities.. Brits, Syrians, Palestinians, Europeans AND Egyptians
But seriously... I'm not married to an Egyptian, but lived in Egypt for a few years.. one of my reasons for leaving was because of the difficulties and not considering them to be 100% necessary in my life. There are more important things to think about other than how to avoid being ripped off from taxi drivers yaani. As much as I was in love with Umm El Dunya.. one day I woke up and love just wasn't enough!
I have a few friends married to Egyptians and to be honest the ones living in Egypt for love of their man have a harder time than those with an equal love for Egypt. When you love Egypt for Egypt's sake at least when your hubby is busy and doesn't have time to take you out or talk to you, you can do things alone because you want to .. you can learn the language because you want to.. and you will try to understand culture and traditions because you want to. I have seen much resentment coming from the foriegn wives with regards to this case.
When you have made the "sacrifice" because of love for your husband, it stands to reason that you will be expecting him to make some sacrifices too.. such as coming home from work at a decent time, taking you out for a meal now and again, having a conversation with you instead of just expecting his husbandly rights before he rolls over and goes to sleep. Western wives may not understand that hubby "MUST" work so hard to keep the money coming in. It's not always part of the western culture for the man to sacrifice quality time for bringing home the money... from what I have seen many Egyptian men will see this as necessary to prove his manhood. I have heard this argument so many times you wouldn't believe and when I discuss it with one of my best friends she understands this mentality but frequently says she would rather live in a shed, have basic food and no car etc if it meant hubby would spend more time with her and the kids.
Don't fall for the age old fairy tale that love conquers all! It doesn't! The road to true happiness is paved with compromise, understanding, patience and and and... it's a long road.
If you want this to work, you have to be willing to give so much support, you have to be honest with her about the realities of living in Egypt (but don't get into the habit of participating in Anti Egypt drivel!) This will not help and she will expect you to do it always! Try to give her valid (not defensive) reasons for any differences in Egypt as well as encouraging a dialogue in how to make improvements. Try to help her love Egypt as well.. show her the beauties so that she may want to explore and learn alone. If you will live in an area without many foriegners, try to show her where she can go to meet them and take here to "westernised" places now and again.
For example.. if you were to live in Pyramids area ( ) take her to Maadi or Heliopolis once in a while so she can see other faces of Cairo.
There are so many ways and advice that can be given but unfortunately I have been on the net for long enough today and Iftar does not prepare itself unfortunately
Good Luck
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
yuck.... sexual harrassment in the streets of Egypt is disgusting.... it's even worse in ramadan....cant tell you how many times I got my boobs & butt grabed.... I'd run after the A$$holes untill i cant but i curse them loudly.
Even traffic police have no shame
And I am Egytpian
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
That Egyptian women get sexually harassed too has surprised me. This is something I haven't heard from my Egyptian women friends, nor witnessed and I welcome the forthrightness of posters discussing this subject. To have to deal with this on a routine basis must be trying.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Chinderella,
That Egyptian women get sexually harassed too has surprised me. This is something I haven't heard from my Egyptian women friends, nor witnessed and I welcome the forthrightness of posters discussing this subject. To have to deal with this on a routine basis must be trying.
They do but maybe they don't talk about it because it's regular & they got used to it.... LOL
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
thank u SayWhatYouSee for ur advice too .. i am happy really to hear all this from all of you .. this will help me understand her better and be aware of all that she may feel
Here's a fairly recent thread where expats asked what they missed out their country. I think a lot of those folks are Western wives living in Egypt. The thread is a little contentious, but it might give you some good ideas.
I wish you and your girlfriend the very best of luck. It's touching that you care enough to seek out and listen to alternative views. Decency in men is not a question of nationality and it is such a pity that the actions of some affect the perception of many.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
<Shame men who behave badly. This works. It also gives you way more confidence, knowing how to deal with it.>
Thanks soo much for this advice.Will take into consideration for my soon upcoming trip! This could hold the key to many things.
Posts: 1339 | From: Om Leito | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by *Souri*: You slapped his face that great I would have never dare to do that and did he try to slappe you back?
No and that is exactly the point, if you react like I did they are embarrassed and guilty. They know what they do is wrong but if you let them get away with it then they think why not. Also all the people standing around were on my side. They don't like this sleazy behaviour either and will support you if you complain. I have reacted verbally a few times as well and they immediately go into apologetic, humble, embarrassed, guilty mode.
The poster that said about Western husbands letting Egyptian men make sleazy compliments to their wives is spot on. My Egyptian husband would hit anyone who said anything to me.
I think it is important to check things out with your husband as well becasue things you just would not think about are frowned upon here. It is important not to take the attitude 'why I shouldn't I be able to do this'. You can't, it is a different country with a different culture and you have to accept that.
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
''I think it is important to check things out with your husband as well becasue things you just would not think about are frowned upon here. It is important not to take the attitude 'why I shouldn't I be able to do this'. You can't, it is a different country with a different culture and you have to accept that.''
Akshar offers more excellent advice, above. Little things, such as women not sitting in the front seat of a taxi, surprise western people. If you want to get by in Egypt, you have to go with the flow, embrace the culture. There is a lot to like too!
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
i know the traffic in Egypt and it is really terrifying to drive here but actually i seen many foreginers drive thier own cars here .. so it can be .. but little difficult..![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
but if its not possible to come back home... better to find the way to live happily and learn how to do it in other place also.![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
that great I would have never dare to do that and did he try to slappe you back?
Printer-friendly view of this topic