posted
Hi sameh. I am British and married to an Egyptian man.
Has she been to Egypt at all? I think that has to be a starting question really. If not then she should visit and see the 'culture' for herself.
Do you both intend living in Egypt after marriage?
You dont say if you are Muslim or Christian and I am assuming you are asking because she is Christian and you are Muslim? Christians (women) CAN marry Muslim men. Have you spoken to her about Islam? does she ask you things about it? The main point to mention here is DO NOT TRY TO FORCE HER. Do not make her think she HAS to revert to marry you, she doesnt!! I know many Christian women happily married to Muslim men. IF one day, inshaAllah, she comes to Islam it must be for HERSELF and not for YOU.
The cultural differences I suppose will be there wherever you decide to live after marriage but they can be resolved, many many people do this over time, we are all human culture after all
Happy New Year and Eid Mubarak to all!!
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Hello Sameh, I know that there r a lot of differences between two of u,esp. coz I live in country near Roamina. Only advice I can give u,is that if love is real ur relation(marriage) can be succesfull no matter of those difference,but also u will have a lot to talk about.U can try to find some middle in all of that if she doesn't want to enter Islam,but if she does..the rest u know....Try to look on that as a nice challange,or an great adventure of ur lives,and don't put that differences between two of u too much.....Have my best wishes...
Posts: 169 | From: somewhere | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Hello Sameh, My egyptian husband and I have been together for almost two years, culturally there are no differences between us, but a lot of understanding and dialogue. Since leaving Egypt we are now settled back in London and have just learned we are expecting our first baby. Good luck, I hope you will be as happy as we are. Happy new year and happy eid
Posts: 66 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sawny: 29th of August, both of our birthday. Thank you
wow, that's an incredible coincidence - all on the same day! Congratulations to you Posts: 463 | From: Other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2006
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" Do you both intend living in Egypt after marriage? "
For me , it's not a real problem where to live , as long as I can get good offers.....I'm a stock market analyst , currently based in Cairo....
" Do not make her think she HAS to revert to marry you, she doesnt!! "
I'll not ask her to convert . It's not a problem for me....
Hi Sameh
She will wonder and worry about culture until she visits Egypt. Is it possible for her to visit? it will put her mind at rest, when she gets over the culture shock that is
I think you 2 can get through this if you TALK about things. Im assuming you have not actually met yet? Get her to visit and talk about things, its so much easier and more convincing face to face.
I have to say its a breath of fresh air to see an Egy MAN here asking questions about marrying a foreigner instead of another foreign woman Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Like Aiysha says it is very refreshing for a man to come and ask here for information.
For whatever reason you have chosen to marry a western woman, from my own experience I would say the only way it will ever work is so long as you accept her for the way she is and not try and change her. Yes she will have to conform to Egyptian society in terms of conservative dress and behaviour but that is very easy for you to help her with or she can post here and women can advise her.
I think any relationship between different cultures will never work if one of the parties expects the other to make very big changes to the essence of their character. You can do it for a short while but in the end you will come true to yourself and the relationship will break down.
I think the only thing my husband ever asked me to change was the way I cooked rice and that we can teach her here as well!! Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
sameh...if i remember rightly last time i tried to offer you some advice regarding culturally mixed relationships you jumped down my throat and said that cultural differences were over rated...i am in one and personally do not find them over rated, they are important considerations and alot of allowance and adjustment needs to be made on both sides. It seemed to me last time that it didnt bother you that she wasnt muslim and you said you dont mind what religion your kids were bought up in, and from your part you dont seem to acknowledge any cultural differences, so have things changed? or is it only your girlfriend that has concerns? and if so how can you seek advice for her concerns if you dont acknowledge their existance?
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Penny: Like Aiysha says it is very refreshing for a man to come and ask here for information.
For whatever reason you have chosen to marry a western woman, from my own experience I would say the only way it will ever work is so long as you accept her for the way she is and not try and change her. Yes she will have to conform to Egyptian society in terms of conservative dress and behaviour but that is very easy for you to help her with or she can post here and women can advise her.
I think any relationship between different cultures will never work if one of the parties expects the other to make very big changes to the essence of their character. You can do it for a short while but in the end you will come true to yourself and the relationship will break down.
I think the only thing my husband ever asked me to change was the way I cooked rice and that we can teach her here as well!!
I think i have an emotional blockage with rice I know before I start its going to be rice pudding and it usually is Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Hi Sameh...as I know ppl of Romania r Christians mostly,than,the way of her living there(Europian freedom),than whole community is organized on different way than in Islamic world.That is not bad and from my point of look it can be really interesting and absolutely positive...Anyway,I belive that u'll make it and arrange ur life on the way u like !Have my best and Happy New Year!
Posts: 169 | From: somewhere | Registered: Oct 2006
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Yes , but she is worried.....She's very shy and conservative......
" Im assuming you have not actually met yet? "
Of course we met I met her by coincidence when I was in a business trip in Bucharest....And it was love at first sight
It was surprising how much we had in common , hobbies , career and way of thinking in many topics , but she's still worried about cultural and religious issues......
" its so much easier and more convincing face to face "
Of course.....When we were together , everything was going easy and we enjoyed our time together....But once I left to Egypt , she started to worry again !!!
Penny ,
" For whatever reason you have chosen to marry a western woman "
She's not a western.....She's Romanian... I didn't " choose " to marry from a special race or nation , I just fell in love with her
" Yes she will have to conform to Egyptian society in terms of conservative dress and behaviour "
She's already coservative in dress and behaviour....I think this will not be a problem...
" I think the only thing my husband ever asked me to change was the way I cooked rice and that we can teach her here as well!!"
Egg ,
No , I didn't jump down your throat but I still believe that cultural differences were over rated ....What's more important is each person's personality...
" so have things changed? or is it only your girlfriend that has concerns? "
Things didn't change for me , but only my girlfriend has concerns...
" and if so how can you seek advice for her concerns if you dont acknowledge their existance? "
I acknowledge their existence ONLY in her mind
Polina ,
Yes , I know the Romanian society is more open than the Egyptian one ...
BUT in my case , my girlfriend is very conservative , in behavior , dress , way of thinking , she never had a boyfriend , she's very family oriented , church girl..... I even find my sisters more liberal then her...
That's why I think that talk about " cultural differences " is over rated in this case....
posted
Happy to hear all of that Sameh....So why do u afraid of differences-coz I can't see them in ur case!?...There is no reason for any kind of beaing worried!Just go and get ur girl and enjoy with her in life!
Posts: 169 | From: somewhere | Registered: Oct 2006
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" Happy to hear all of that Sameh....So why do u afraid of differences-coz I can't see them in ur case!?... "
I'm glad you agree with me on this....It's not me who is afraid of differences She's the one who is afraid !! And I think people around her are giving her their " wisdom "
posted
ha..."wisdom"from older ppl...It sounds familiar to me....Listen,if u explain her everything abt u,ur country,ur religion and ur ppl at all,I think that she'll get u very well...and that she will never be afraid again!Also,u must know,that I had a lot of prejudice abt Muslim ppl-acctually I've got a lot of wrong infos abt that!Till the moment I met a great person who explained me so many things,which were confusing me...Now I don't have any prejudice...Let her to understand u...
Posts: 169 | From: somewhere | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Hi Sameh, I looked up your earlier thread where you ask for advise.
Look I really think she has to come and visit you in Egypt. You can do all the talking and trying to convince but she actually needs to see and feel to understand how it is. And only then you know how she likes it, if she could imagine to live in this culture or not. And even then if she indeed decides to visit you it could be the total culture shock for her as she just seems to be so much hesitating.
You know I wouldn't force her, keep it as a friendship. I wouldn't push a shy person like this. Remember it's her who seems to have immense problems with cultural and religious differences - not you. And she will have a hard time to overcome these worries - if ever. I just don't see in this relationship much success, you need to find a more open-minded person. And I think she should really go for a guy with the same religion as hers and she will be happy and satisfied with that decision.
All the best to you and HAPPY NEW YEAR! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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This " prejudice " is a real problem.....Thanks to the American media controlled by new cons......
She was telling me things like " I know that muslim men marry 4 women.....I'm afraid you'll be a dictator with me " and so on...... And she was surprised when I told her that muslims believe in Jesus the christ !!!!
I explained many things to her.....And this made her more comfortable.....But I think she has to visit Egypt and see everything with her own eyes...
" I just don't see in this relationship much success, you need to find a more open-minded person. And I think she should really go for a guy with the same religion as hers and she will be happy and satisfied with that decision. "
Well , don't you think that it's very pessimistic opinion ??? !!!
And even if this was " by brain " , what about love ???
posted
Sameh, very good question and I give you a plausible answer. You see to maintain a healthy relationsip between two people from the same culture is already hard work so if two people from different cultures/religions find to each other its even harder you can probably imagine. Lots of communication and the will to understand and to adapt is required. A cross-cultural relationship can be a very tricky thing. Look at how many people get married because of love...... and many times its just not enough. The love will fade, daily routine will set in and if she can't deal with her life in Egypt she will blame you for her dilemma. Let her come out of free pieces and if she can't stop worrying - move on. And it will be in the interest of the both of you. You might find my explanation pessimistic, you might don't like my opinion and of course you can just forget about it. But seriously think about it if she can't get accustomed to the idea of marrying a Muslim and living in a Muslimic country - what you want from her?
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I am absolutely agree with u Sameh....Let her come and see all by her own!After that I belive she's going to change her opinion...Have my best!
Posts: 169 | From: somewhere | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Sameh I think the best thing is for her to come and see for herself. It's easy for you and others to tell her what it's lik eliving in egypt. She has to make her own mind up. I had a friend who was from romania she'd been living in egypt for over 20 years and loved it and actually preferrd living there to romania.
Each person is different in their expectation and desires so this is really a matter for you and her to talk about. Take it slowly, show her the real egypt. By that I mean show her what it would be like for her to live there on a day to day basis, as it's so much different from having a holiday.
This will help you and her. Lots of foreigners go to Egypt with a romantic idea and become disappointed, angry, confused as reality hits home and it's different from their expectations.
I have known foreigners that have gone to egypt married and within a year returned to their own country, Be honest and up front and this will help both of you.
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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You said " I had a friend who was from romania she'd been living in egypt for over 20 years and loved it and actually preferrd living there to romania. "
Would you please put me in contact with that friend of yours ? Either by email or phone ? I think it would be a good idea to discuss this with a Romanian who had such experience....
As for living in Egypt , I have good life standards here , I live in a good district in Cairo ...Of course I would like her to be accustomed to live in Egypt....But I have the possibility of relocation , as a stock market analyst , I usually get offers from companies based in other countries .....Some are in Europe specially Switzerland.........But I hate the cold weather !!!!!
" By that I mean show her what it would be like for her to live there on a day to day basis "
I don't understand what you mean exactly......Life in Egypt is like , going to work in the morning , driving back home , go to supermarket , then go home......This is my everyday's life What is the main difference than in Romania ?
posted
It is nice to dream Sameh, tell her of your dreams and see if it is attractive to her. Some couples profit from being together in a third country where both have to adapt. Having some money does help, it will allow for holidays and appartements in your homecountries. Besides Egyptians can get acqainted to cold wheather you know! My dh used to wear long underwear and earcaps and whatever necessary and after some years he is totally integrated to it. We have heating in the home and at the workplace. Switzerland is a nice clean country and summers are sunny, even hot, the mountains and the Mediterranean see are enjoyable, there are a lot of churches to pick from. Take care of yourself, you want to see Romania and see if you can live there and adjust. This is not something to be taken lightly. Romanian winters can be very cold too. Be sure you have a job before you get settled there, don't underestimate discrimination at the workforce, you would not be the first Egyhusband that would hate himself for not having the good job to provide for his wife and family. And the first job with experience in the country will get you to find another.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
No,I didn't have such experience but I belive that she'll like Egypt!U can try to find some kind of solution which will be good for both of u!
Posts: 169 | From: somewhere | Registered: Oct 2006
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What I'm not dreaming I can easily find a job outside Egypt , I'm an internationally licensed analyst with several American certifications . And in Egypt , I'm well known in the financial community and financial media.....
Moving to Romania would be a possibility , BUT the income would never be like in Egypt , plus in Egypt , I'm more close to big clients in Saudi Arabia and other GCC countries . Thus , I personally prefer to work in Egypt or the Middle East in general .
As for discrimination , when it comes to wealth management , there is no " discrimination " Believe me
" Take care of yourself, you want to see Romania and see if you can live there and adjust."
Of course I saw Romania.......I met her when I was in a business trip in Bucharest !! Life there was nice , but it was summer , I don't know if I'll like it in winter....
More importantly , most business opportunitites are now in the Middle East.....Much better than Romania....So , I certainly would prefer to work in the Middle East......
posted
I think she needs to come to Egypt for a long time, one month at least, with no pressure. Just to see and experience the life. It is hard to take the word of another person but to actually experience it is another thing.
I am British, christian and married to an Egyptian and live in Luxor. I would say it is important to like Egypt for itself if you are goign to move here. Frankly if my husband was Turkish/Chinese/French I would not be living there. I loved Egypt before I ever loved my husband and that has made is easy to adjust. A big thing is having something to do. I am very busy running our business and have lots of mental stimulation. So get her to come here, she will either fall in love with Egypt or hate ti but at least you will know which.
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by akshar: I think she needs to come to Egypt for a long time, one month at least, with no pressure. Just to see and experience the life. It is hard to take the word of another person but to actually experience it is another thing.
I am British, christian and married to an Egyptian and live in Luxor. I would say it is important to like Egypt for itself if you are goign to move here. Frankly if my husband was Turkish/Chinese/French I would not be living there. I loved Egypt before I ever loved my husband and that has made is easy to adjust. A big thing is having something to do. I am very busy running our business and have lots of mental stimulation. So get her to come here, she will either fall in love with Egypt or hate ti but at least you will know which.
Akshar is one lady i know personally who has made an intercultural inter-religious marriage work very well. They both work hard at thier business and she has been a rock for me too Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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I agree with you that she should come to Egypt to see the country and experience the life here by herself .
I suggested this to her several times , but she's hesitated . But I can say she was surprised to know many facts about Egypt from me ....
I can easily find a job for her in Cairo , too . She has a Master's degree in financial markets , I'm a stock market analyst , too . So , I have good relations in this field here .
Akshar , I believe the life in Cairo will be very close to the life in Bucharest .
Ayisha and Akshar , Your " success " stories are giving me hope .
Tigerlily ,
I asked if you have ever been to Egypt cause in your reply you talked too much about differences between life in Egypt and life in other countries . So , I doubted you never been here before !!!
I've been to 15 countries in Europe and the Middle East , and I was in contact with families there, and I never felt this " difference " , I mean in everyday's life . People go to work , go back home , go to supermarket , etc . Problems are the same . I'm talking about middle class Egyptians and middle class people in other countries . I'm not talking about the extremes in different societies , of course.
My opinion is , there are different " Societies " within each " Society "....
posted
sameh... every time someone suggests cultural differences have you noticed how you dismiss it? its only an observation but to take this matter seriously you cannot say that her concerns are 'only in her head' i think i can get what your saying, that there are not many cultural differences between you two, but with all due respect she clearly is hesitant so i'm afraid you cant deny that they are there, perhaps you are not acknowledging them but it is not as simple as going to work and coming home etc... I am married to an egyptian man and we live in uk, he has lived here a long time so one might argue that there are not any 'differences' but there are, and i didn't think there would be... but they are there, so i agree with your lady friend i'm afraid... BUT i'm not saying it cant work, we are extreemly happy, but both of us have had to make changes to adapt to each others expectations of the other. Of course you can be happy together but i strongly feel that you need to ACCEPT what she says and instead of trying to dismiss it you need to think of how you both could overcome the things she is afraid of. I mentioned once before about children, this is a biggy, where you will live, how you both feel about her working after children, all this stuff needs talking through... you might laugh about her mentioning 4 wives, but of course she would feel nervous of that... i know from before that you didnt sound particularly religious in an islamic sense, so these things may not concern you, but i can certainly see where she is coming from and i think that she is being very sensible to address the issues now. i personally do not feel a holiday in egypt will make the situation any easier, who wouldn't love it! but she's not marrying the country, she's marrying you, you have your own religion, you have decided which bits you are following and which bits your not, so the only answer to your dilemma is by actually listening to her concerns and talking about them one by one and being true to yourself and her.. and i'm sorry to say that although you are saying that you will jus go along with how she lives in EVERYTHING, as islam doesnt seem to be much of an issue to you, i am sceptical (as is she) that you may feel that way for the rest of your life...
You are absolutely right that people have the same issues wherever they are from, but what matters is whether the individuals understand why the other person feels the way they do... and often we take 'cultural differences' for granted until we are in this kind of situation and then you really begin to see your own culture and how it sometimes conflicts with others in the tiniest of ways.
i am sorry if i come accross as negative, i really do hope that you can sort this out, i am all for culturally mixed relationships, but they do take an extra dimension that i really dont think you can ignore. if you do it will fail... if you accept that its there then you have some hope of success, but be prepared that things will pop up every now and then...
good luck
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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I don't refuse any opinion . That's why I'm here To get advice and know different opinions .
But let me tell you my point of view on cultural differences....I believe that we have different societies within the ONE society....For example , in your country , I'm sure that the life of Londoners will be much different that those living in villages in the countryside.....The same goes for people in the USA for example , when you meet a person from a megapole like NYC , and then meet another living in a farm in Texas....
If we'll take Egypt as a case , what would you call an " Egyptian " culture ?? Do you mean people living in Cairo ? In Upper Egypt ? In Nubia ? In Sinai ? In the countryside or in the city ? And which city ? A university professor ? a peasant ? a writer ? And at which economical level ? A very rich man living in a palace ? Or a poor man living in the slums around the cities ?
And even when you talk about religion : An atheist ? A moderately religious person ? Or a radical ?
Do you still believe that there is something called ONE CULTURE ?
My idea is that the most important for 2 people to connect together is their way of thinking , their educational level , the way they were brought up , etc.....This doesn't depend mainly on the countries they came from . But on their way of thinking , the life they lived , etc....
For example , I can better communicate with a man from India or China , who is in my same level of education , same way of life , etc . Than with someone from my country who is much different than me in the lifestyle or way of thinking....
In my case , what I see as a " problem " in my relationship with this lady is ONLY that she's very religious and I'm not interested in religion that much....
Well , I DO BELIEVE in God , but I don't believe in religions . I don't need a mediator between me and God , or someone to tell me how to pray , etc....I've been like that for more than 15 years , and since my childhood I was skeptical on all those called " holy books " while all of them are full of curses and politically motivated......
" with all due respect she clearly is hesitant so i'm afraid you cant deny that they are there, perhaps you are not acknowledging them "
I think everything can be solved once there is love....And we are in love...... BUT , thanks to the people in her church they try to brainwash her !!!! You know , religion is opium for people !!!!!
" I am married to an egyptian man and we live in uk, he has lived here a long time so one might argue that there are not any 'differences' but there are, and i didn't think there would be... but they are there "
Please tell me examples of these differences...
" BUT i'm not saying it cant work, we are extreemly happy, but both of us have had to make changes to adapt to each others expectations of the other. "
Of course , and that's what I'm planning to do...By the way , even if you 2 people from the same culture got married , they will need to adapt to each others !!! Cause life alone is different from life with a partner....
But I don't see this as part of cultural differences , only part usual adaptation in marriage....
" I mentioned once before about children, this is a biggy, where you will live, how you both feel about her working after children, all this stuff needs talking through "
Of course this must be discussed...... But believe me , you can't always plan everything in life in advance.....I believe in fate.....A year ago , I never thought that I would be in love with a Romanian lady ? Didn't even think that I'll travel to Romania......But it happened !!!
" she's marrying you, you have your own religion "
I don't have a religion !! I just believe in God.....And believe me , I usually wonder how would an intelligent person in our modern life accepts to be guided by a book that was written 2000 or 3000 years ago !!!????
" as islam doesnt seem to be much of an issue to you, i am sceptical (as is she) that you may feel that way for the rest of your life..."
It's not about Islam......It's about the idea of " religions " as a whole.....
" and often we take 'cultural differences' for granted until we are in this kind of situation and then you really begin to see your own culture and how it sometimes conflicts with others in the tiniest of ways. "
Please give me an example......
" i am sorry if i come accross as negative, i really do hope that you can sort this out "
I still believe that it's not depending on culture , but people.... As you said , she's not going to marrying my country , but me.........I'm also not going to marry her country , but her as a person.....
Finally , we are in love , and people don't find love everyday......It would be stupid to let it go just for fears !!!
posted
ok, sameh, sorry i have not been on here but i have just read your reply so i'l try to answer some of your questions as i noticed you posted again on the same thing.
i dont really want to go into detail about my own relationship, i hope you understand, but the main difference being a man having certain roles and responsibilities and a women having others, and how the two relate to each other...i hope you can read between the lines on this
put it this way, i am now muslim, and i thank god for that. ALL, without exception, my non muslim friends and family think that i am unhappy, opressed etc because when we fall out its usually due to differences in expectations of the other(to avoid calling it cultural differences...my life has changed completely, i dont go to pubs, i dont work, i dont have male friends, i dont go out late alone, i wear hijab without the veil blar blar... for people that live around me they see these things as different to their way of life and alot of people cant understand that these things actually make me feel better...not worse...YES we fall out over, what i would call cultural expectations of the other, and so I feel they are there...
you are completely right in what you say, that its about you and her not religion and culture, but like it or not your religion (or beliefs) and culture have made you who you are, why you think the way you do. Of course there are differences within cultures and individuals but more often than not you will share common values/beliefs with those of your own culture.
You are clearly committed to resolving any differences which is admirable, but if she is the one who is worried about things then it is her that should be looking for answers to her questions, you cannot answer them for her i'm afraid, she should be coming to you directly and asking how you feel about this or that, and if she doesnt do it then my guess would be that she isnt as committed as you in resolving any differences of belief/expectation that might arise.
i think your frustrations are with her refusal to see you as an individual as aposed to a stereotype, although she may be using that as an excuse, either way i think you will struggle until she sits down with a list and says 'this is what i'm afraid of'
you cant make it right on your own, the more you try to answer her doubts the less likely she is to face them herself.
i had worries when i found out my hubby was muslim, i thought 'how will that work?', but like you said, i talked to him, i asked about how HE felt about this/that, i researched on the net, i asked friends, muslim/non muslim, i read books and am still learning... but he didnt know any of this, i had to do it myself and come up with the answers myself.
good luck sameh... get your friend on here and encourage her to ask questions or find out specifically what concerns she has, i would be happy to answer anything or give her any advice, i'm sure it wouldnt be so scary if she spoke to others in a similar situation.
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