posted
'SITS' isn't the first American guy on this forum to be married to an Egyptian woman. Maybe they should start a support group. Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: I believe that the US would recognize all four marriages but I also believe that once you arrive on US soil you would be charged with bigomy. Not sure if anyone's done it though. Most people I know of that have more than one wife only did one marriage legally and the rest were just done at the mosque.
Even if I went back just for a visit and not planning to live there or bring any of my 4 wives back to the States?
Also why do you feel I will be charge with bigomy if all of my civil marriages were conducted in a country were poligamy is legal?
Meaning my 4 wives were still living in the land of the Muslims like Saudi Arabia?
And to push the envelope further..How would the U.S. Government know I was married if I never registered the marriages with the USA authorities?
I am not a lawyer so I really don't know what to tell you. I do know that you don't have to register your marriage at all with the US authorities. It's immediately recognized when you get married at the MOJ. Maybe there's a lawyer that could answer this more in depth. I've never really looked into it because it doesn't concern me.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: 'SITS' isn't the first American guy on this forum to be married to an Egyptian woman. Maybe they should start a support group.
Like I would listen to anything you have to say SWYS..I can fall down all by myself..don't need your help.
But I'm glad to know that you have SITS on your mind.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think the fact of recognition of any foreign marriage by the US Government has little to do with acceptance of this marriage as valid for the purpose of immigration process: for that there are steps that need to be followed and can not be 'skipped'.
Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Does anyone know if a Muslim man can get married 4 times in a civil marriage at the Ministry of Justice?
Since an American Muslim didn't have any type of No Objection Letter from their Embassy. Would one assume that he could get married 4 times at the MOJ and each civil marriage be recognize by the U.S. Government?
Any concrete proof or evidence that this is possible or not?
Now I see the light...
OH, Pick me! Pick me!
............................................excuse me......while I vomit.. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
how can he be charge with an offense if he married ouside the country. Do get real
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by akshar: how can he be charge with an offense if he married ouside the country. Do get real
He is American.
So ............ he didn't marry in America. He is Muslim and if he married in a Muslim country then he can have 4 wives. If he married in america then he can have only one.
loads of Muslims travel and no country cares how many wives they have, it is none of their business.
To have more than one wife is not a crime in america, only to marry more than one wife
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe he should denounce his American citizenship if he does not want to abide by American laws.
Are Muslims with 4 wives becoming American citizens with their 4 wives or do they have to lie and say they have only 1 wife? Traveling is one thing being a citizen is another.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Maybe he should denounce his American citizenship if he does not want to abide by American laws.
Are Muslims with 4 wives becoming American citizens with their 4 wives or do they have to lie and say they have only 1 wife? Traveling is one thing being a citizen is another.
"When in Roman do as the Roman's."
I'm now in Egypt and having 4 wives is perfectly legal. American laws do not apply here.
Why should I renounce my citizenship? It is my birth right, as was my father, his father, his father and the father before him etc. (oh yes, can't forget my mom's side either).
I don't want Egyptian citizenship either by the way. However, I am perfectly fine living in this country THANK YOU!
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Maybe he should denounce his American citizenship if he does not want to abide by American laws.
Are Muslims with 4 wives becoming American citizens with their 4 wives or do they have to lie and say they have only 1 wife? Traveling is one thing being a citizen is another.
"When in Roman do as the Roman's."
I'm now in Egypt and having 4 wives is perfectly legal. American laws do not apply here.
Why should I renounce my citizenship? It is my birth right, as was my father, his father, his father and the father before him etc. (oh yes, can't forget my mom's side either).
I don't want Egyptian citizenship either by the way. However, I am perfectly fine living in this country THANK YOU!
The majority of Muslims have only one wife.
It is the holy month of Ramadan when true Muslims fast from their desires, yet during this holy month and shortly after marrying your first wife, you are seeking justification to marry 3 more.
A tree is known by its fruit.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Maybe he should denounce his American citizenship if he does not want to abide by American laws.
Are Muslims with 4 wives becoming American citizens with their 4 wives or do they have to lie and say they have only 1 wife? Traveling is one thing being a citizen is another.
"When in Roman do as the Roman's."
I'm now in Egypt and having 4 wives is perfectly legal. American laws do not apply here.
Why should I renounce my citizenship? It is my birth right, as was my father, his father, his father and the father before him etc. (oh yes, can't forget my mom's side either).
I don't want Egyptian citizenship either by the way. However, I am perfectly fine living in this country THANK YOU!
The majority of Muslims have only one wife.
It is the holy month of Ramadan when true Muslims fast from their desires, yet during this holy month and shortly after marrying your first wife, you are seeking justification to marry 3 more.
A tree is known by its fruit.
There is nothing wrong with poligamy. The Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam had 11 wives. His companions radiallahu ta'ala anhu MOST of them have multiples wives.
And walhi (Allah is my witness) my wife BEFORE marriage was looking and found a co-wife for 'US' however, I refuse the idea. She is 100% in agreeance with poligamy.
By the way I just didn't get married I was already married, I just recently obtained a 'civil marriage'.
So what to you say about the "TREE" of Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam and the wonderful fruit that it bore to this day?
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Even if I went back just for a visit and not planning to live there or bring any of my 4 wives back to the States?
Also why do you feel I will be charge with bigomy if all of my civil marriages were conducted in a country were poligamy is legal?
Bring that 2nd, 3rd, or 4th wife with you to the U.S., if you trust them not to turn you in for bigamy or try to divorce you.
In some states, if one of those wives filed for divorce, your marriage could be declared annulled, yet you would still be liable for alimony and a division of marital property.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Even if I went back just for a visit and not planning to live there or bring any of my 4 wives back to the States?
Also why do you feel I will be charge with bigomy if all of my civil marriages were conducted in a country were poligamy is legal?
Bring that 2nd, 3rd, or 4th wife with you to the U.S., if you trust them not to turn you in for bigamy or try to divorce you.
In some states, if one of those wives filed for divorce, your marriage could be declared annulled, yet you would still be liable for alimony and a division of marital property.
See but he couldn't really bring anymore than one wife to the US anyway. What visa would allow them to come here? If he applied for a k-3 then they'd immediately know he was already married as well as if he applied for a k-1.
If your wife is so intent on getting you a second wife, and if you intended on living in the US at some point, you'd have to marry the second one in the US by a mosque and not civilly.
That's so weird to me that a wife would be pushing you to marry another wife.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
That's so weird to me that a wife would be pushing you to marry another wife. [/QB]
My wife knows and understands the value of Islaam. What do you say about Solomon who known in the bible to have had 700 wives? I guess they were weird too right? Islaam wasn't the first to sanction polygamy..come on people.
I wonder do some people really think about things before they comment?
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: That's so weird to me that a wife would be pushing you to marry another wife.
She's tired of sleeping with him?
It definitely sounds like she's tired of something!
Sounds like you would like to know..LOL
If it was any of your business, trust me, you still wouldn't know.
But I will say this..as of this moment my marriage is as solid as a ROCK walhamdulillah. Thanks for your concern.
I don't need to justify, nor defend Islaam's position on polygamy. Islaam is more than capable of doing that on it's own, as it has done so for more that 1428 years. Simply read: Surat Al-Nisa’ 4:3.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by egypte: Let's imagine he was already married in the US. He still would have been allowed to marry in Egypt because more than one wife is acceptable under Egyptian law. The US government might even object saying he is already married but the Egyptians won't see that as a problem. So a no-objection statement is not required for a Muslim male because he can marry 4 times. They know also that the US government is never going to issue a paper saying he already has 4 wives.
A woman needs the paper because she can only marry one man at a time. They need to know that she isn't already married.
You might have a valid point here. I was just checking what the Kuwait Governments rules are for civil marriages and it looks like because they too believe in polygamy any two Muslims who wish marry do NOT need the "No objection affadavit" Which means they do not need to show proof that they are free to marry and/or are divorced.
Here what the requirements are the proof of this at the bottom of the info:
CIVIL MARRIAGE CEREMONIES IN KUWAIT
Non-Muslims who would like to marry in Kuwait in a civil marriage ceremony must:
1. Complete the attached "Free To Marry" affidavit form. This form must be notarized by the Consul at the American Embassy (do not sign the affidavit until you appear in front of a Consular Officer). There is a fee of KD 9 for each document notarized by the Embassy.
NOTE: When two American citizens wish to marry, both are required to complete separate "Free to Marry" affidavits. When the marriage is between an American citizen and a foreign national, the American citizen will fill out the "Free to Marry" affidavit at the U.S. Embassy. The foreign national must contact his/her Embassy to seek similar assistance.
2. The Authentication Office at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the State of Kuwait must then authenticate the "Free to Marry" affidavit. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is in Shuwaikh next to the Kuwait News Agency. The office is open from: 7:30 A.M. to 12 P.M., telephone: 243-0541.
3. Then the "Free to Marry" affidavit must be translated into Arabic. The Embassy can provide a list of translators.
4. Take the "Free to Marry" affidavit with the Arabic translation to the Office of the Public Notary in the Ministers Complex for the marriage ceremony. Address: Murgab area, Ministries complex, ground floor, Block no. 15, room 25, telephone: 248-6444. The office is open on Sundays and Wednesdays from 7:00 A.M. to 12:00 noon. Two male witnesses are required. Make sure that the witnesses carry either their passports or valid identifications (someone with a Kuwait civil ID is preferable) with them. Take photocopies of the identifications for all parties involved.
SUGGESTED: Because the marriage contract is issued only in Arabic, you may wish to have it translated and authenticated for use outside Kuwait. The American Embassy, cannot translate the document but will authenticate the signature of any of the listed translators for a fee of KD 9.
NOTE: When both parties are Muslim the "Free to Marry" Affidavit is not required. Kuwait recognizes only the Muslim, Christian, and Jewish religions. Persons of other faiths cannot be married in a civil ceremony in Kuwait.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Did anyone hear from the American woman that was trying to marry? I wonder if it worked for her? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:And walhi (Allah is my witness) my wife BEFORE marriage was looking and found a co-wife for 'US' however, I refuse the idea. She is 100% in agreeance with poligamy.
This is one time I believe you sands. And look what a smart girl you married, she was trying to get you another wife for you before you had a chance to touch her. She probably carries your passport around so she can prove that they too can be married to an American.
Have to hand it to you sands, it looks like you are living your dream.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Did anyone hear from the American woman that was trying to marry? I wonder if it worked for her?
No her husband was supposed to contact me, and he hasn't called either. I'm wondering if she made the trip to Egypt. It was a spur of the moment decision to come and the last email I got was that she was leaving within a few hours and that was it.
Short answer..I've heard nothing.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:And walhi (Allah is my witness) my wife BEFORE marriage was looking and found a co-wife for 'US' however, I refuse the idea. She is 100% in agreeance with poligamy.
This is one time I believe you sands. And look what a smart girl you married, she was trying to get you another wife for you before you had a chance to touch her. She probably carries your passport around so she can prove that they too can be married to an American.
Have to hand it to you sands, it looks like you are living your dream.
Actually enlighten one. I was going to marry the co-wife after I married my wife. Now you can remove your foot from your mouth.
She doesn't need my passport to do that. She has her own LOL and I'm listed as her husband inside.
News flash for ya! She could care less that I am an American. She has no desire whatsoever to live, travel or even visit the USA (even on a 48 hour transit visa) even though her and her family has been there several times..however, that's too much information for you anyway.
However if the situation change you'll be the last to know..Have a wonderful day..No need to reply..Thanking you in advance.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
That's so weird to me that a wife would be pushing you to marry another wife.
My wife knows and understands the value of Islaam. What do you say about Solomon who known in the bible to have had 700 wives? I guess they were weird too right? Islaam wasn't the first to sanction polygamy..come on people.
I wonder do some people really think about things before they comment? [/QB]
I wasn't commenting on the validity of polygamy in Islam. I'm well aware that it is halal. What I was commenting on was her urge to have you get one.
I am on a muslim forum for women and there are a few who are the first wife and let me tell you not ONE of them has had an easy time of it when HE brought up the idea. Alhumdulilah they are dealing with it and are ok for now but if all of the reactions that I see from women who's husbands had the idea of a second wife is sorrow, obviously it would shock me to see that a first wife would actually encourage it.
It is perfectly natural for a wife to not want to share her husband. What doesn't seem natural is for a wife to encourage her husband to take an additional wife, unless the idea came from HIM first.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: It is perfectly natural for a wife to not want to share her husband. What doesn't seem natural is for a wife to encourage her husband to take an additional wife, unless the idea came from HIM first.
Not always the case; I have had proposals from men whose wives have suggested it and also from wives looking for a co-wife for their husband. Better the wife be involved and choose someone she likes too, then they can work as a team.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
There is no way I would want to share my husband if I love him....key words "love him"
If a woman has other reasons for marriage then love is not the issue.
Think about it doodlebug, look who her husband is. Wouldn't you in her shoes be pushing for more wives?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: It is perfectly natural for a wife to not want to share her husband. What doesn't seem natural is for a wife to encourage her husband to take an additional wife, unless the idea came from HIM first.
Not always the case; I have had proposals from men whose wives have suggested it and also from wives looking for a co-wife for their husband. Better the wife be involved and choose someone she likes too, then they can work as a team.
Inshaa Allah I'm not going to try and harp on the issue of polygamy for too long. Yes, you are right. There are PLENTY PLENTY of MUSLIM women who look for co-wives for their husbands. I can say alot about this issue, but no need to air ALL of my laundry out on a public forum.
I have friends right here in Egypt who have Co-wives. Some of them 2 or 3 wives and I can tell you that it is not all that uncommon or looked down upon as some here might have you believe.
I have an American friend that is married to two American women. Both women live with their shared husband and combined 11 children in the same villa. It is not recommended, but allowed in Islaam. They have lived together for more than 10 years.
Polygamy is not for EVERYONE and as I mentioned in the beginning I personally choosed not to currently enter into a polygamy marriage at this moment. Many of my friends did a double take after hearing my decision. Yes, because some of them would love to take a 2nd wife but, this may cause issues with the 1st marriage. I on the other hand have the option and encouragement from my wife to take and seek out a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th wife and I choose not to do it. Personally I don't see what all the glitter and glamour about polygamy. I understand why it is allowed and at the same time I understand why "I" choose not to take a additional wife.
You can laugh and attempt to make fun of my situation, but whether you choose to believe me or not, I do take the responsibilities of marriage VERY seriously. We are talking about the welfare of an individual and if Allah wills the welfare of children. That is a huge responsibility which one will be held accountable for, as the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam said (translated): "You are all shepards and Allah will question you about your flocks."
Sorry I said more than what I wanted to say. Please forgive me. Those who wish to continue to joke about my marriage, anyone else's marriage or polygamy please do not expect a reply. What has been say by me is sufficient for me, and with Allah lies the success (tawfiq).
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have issues with polygamy in Islam. I know it is permitted and some do it and ok, fine. My issue is when some of the men take more than one wife and it seems that hardly ever do I hear of any of them taking any that are : divorced widowed converts
Or any of the three combined. If polygamy was instituted to help the men marry the women way back when when wars were so prevelant and the women were getting widowed and left alone (ok and because some had more wives than this to begin with, had to cut it down a bit), why isn't this practiced so much today? No, instead the men are looking for wet behind the ears virgin girls, crossing oceans to bring them to the West or what have you. As a convert I can't tell you how difficult it is to find a good KNOWLEGABLE Muslim man to marry, me being a foreigner, a convert and still have him be Western. Most Muslim men in America will go back to the home country or their parents' home countries for wives and bring them back to America when there are plenty of good American muslimas needing marriage there. Some are divorced and/or widowed sure, but aren't we told that the man gets a great reward in caring for these types of women? It's not that surprising to me that so many Western muslimas marry men who are not their own nationality. I guess it just makes sense that so many do enter into a marriage that works well for all involved, the woman gets the marriage to a Muslim man, he helps her with her Islam, he gets the foreigner, doesn't get the in law family hassle, often doesn't have to fork over stupid amounts of cash, has the chance of moving to the West and *hopefully* he didn't marry one VERY much older and can give him children if he didn't already have them from a prior marriage.
I guess I'm going off now...but I just wish there were more Muslim men willing to take wives who were converts in the West. Even the convert men go overseas! hello?? They are all among you!
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I have issues with polygamy in Islam. I know it is permitted and some do it and ok, fine. My issue is when some of the men take more than one wife and it seems that hardly ever do I hear of any of them taking any that are : divorced widowed converts
Or any of the three combined. If polygamy was instituted to help the men marry the women way back when when wars were so prevelant and the women were getting widowed and left alone (ok and because some had more wives than this to begin with, had to cut it down a bit), why isn't this practiced so much today? No, instead the men are looking for wet behind the ears virgin girls, crossing oceans to bring them to the West or what have you. As a convert I can't tell you how difficult it is to find a good KNOWLEGABLE Muslim man to marry, me being a foreigner, a convert and still have him be Western. Most Muslim men in America will go back to the home country or their parents' home countries for wives and bring them back to America when there are plenty of good American muslimas needing marriage there. Some are divorced and/or widowed sure, but aren't we told that the man gets a great reward in caring for these types of women? It's not that surprising to me that so many Western muslimas marry men who are not their own nationality. I guess it just makes sense that so many do enter into a marriage that works well for all involved, the woman gets the marriage to a Muslim man, he helps her with her Islam, he gets the foreigner, doesn't get the in law family hassle, often doesn't have to fork over stupid amounts of cash, has the chance of moving to the West and *hopefully* he didn't marry one VERY much older and can give him children if he didn't already have them from a prior marriage.
I guess I'm going off now...but I just wish there were more Muslim men willing to take wives who were converts in the West. Even the convert men go overseas! hello?? They are all among you!
You make a very valid point seeing that the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam out of his 11 wives only 1 was a virgin. The other 10 wives radiallahu ta'ala anhuma were either widows or divorced women.
Concerning marrying converts well I can speak for my own experience. I have a lot of friends like myself who reverted to Islaam. Most of the reverts that I know about 80% of them have wives who are either the same race or nationality and of those 80% obviously their wives are too reverts/converts.
I do know brothers who are married to previously divorced women and mostly likely those women have a child or children. My very very close friend who is like a blood brother to me is too a revert and his wife is a revert who was a widow and she had 1 child before marriage living with her. He had 1 child not living with him. they now have 3 additional children together and she is also encourgaging him to take a 2nd wife. They both are young.
I can't answer your question about why for example Arabs migrate to the USA for example and then go back home and marry and then bring their wife to the USA. You will have to ask someone else that question.
However, like I said from my experience the majority of brother marrying sisters in the USA usually marry a revert, she and he usually have children from a previous marriage and it includes brother marrying 2nd wives who have extended families also.
I am sure you are aware of the hadeeth that encourages and recommends marrying the young and virgins. The Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam said that, however, he also set a higher standard and showed that it is perfectly fine to marry the widow and divorced women (even those with children) as well.
There is no doubt that the Muslims Nation as a whole is very far from practicing Al Islaam (including myself) in the manner that is should be and deserves. We ask Allah to help us to recitfy our situation and make us the example to others as was applied and demonstrated by our beloved Prophet Salallahu alayhi wassalaam and his righteous guide companions may Allah be pleased with ALL of them.
Islam in its original form is perfect and beautiful it is the Muslims who have the name Al Islaam a bad impression.
The Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalam said (translated): "The Muslim Nation is like one Body (a human body) when one part of the body hurts, the whole body hurts."
I remembered a few weeks ago I was very ill. I had a sinus infection with a very high fever. I could not breathe properly and I could not smell anything. I felt miserable. My whole body felt bad and my wife reminded me about this hadeeth. She said your nose is hurt, but you feel the affects of it in your whole body...That was so true and it made me look at the hadeeth in a newer light.
Okay..I too am straying off the path..So I will go! Warmest regards and Eid Mubarak to you and your family members. May Allah accept from you and and me all of your good deeds that you did these during this bless month. Ameen.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
My ex brother in law has married two of his brothers' widows. He married them to take care of his brothers' children and widows. He has three wives total. This is the only case I've ever heard of.
I agree, it is kinda difficult for a convert (either divorced or converted without marriage)to find a Muslim husband in the US.
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I have issues with polygamy in Islam. I know it is permitted and some do it and ok, fine. My issue is when some of the men take more than one wife and it seems that hardly ever do I hear of any of them taking any that are : divorced widowed converts
Or any of the three combined. If polygamy was instituted to help the men marry the women way back when when wars were so prevelant and the women were getting widowed and left alone (ok and because some had more wives than this to begin with, had to cut it down a bit), why isn't this practiced so much today? No, instead the men are looking for wet behind the ears virgin girls, crossing oceans to bring them to the West or what have you. As a convert I can't tell you how difficult it is to find a good KNOWLEGABLE Muslim man to marry, me being a foreigner, a convert and still have him be Western. Most Muslim men in America will go back to the home country or their parents' home countries for wives and bring them back to America when there are plenty of good American muslimas needing marriage there. Some are divorced and/or widowed sure, but aren't we told that the man gets a great reward in caring for these types of women? It's not that surprising to me that so many Western muslimas marry men who are not their own nationality. I guess it just makes sense that so many do enter into a marriage that works well for all involved, the woman gets the marriage to a Muslim man, he helps her with her Islam, he gets the foreigner, doesn't get the in law family hassle, often doesn't have to fork over stupid amounts of cash, has the chance of moving to the West and *hopefully* he didn't marry one VERY much older and can give him children if he didn't already have them from a prior marriage.
I guess I'm going off now...but I just wish there were more Muslim men willing to take wives who were converts in the West. Even the convert men go overseas! hello?? They are all among you!
posted
SOMEWHERE, you make some good points. I am sure there are many revert American men marrying other reverts but I just have NEVER seen or met one. I am sure they exist. I do wish we could encourage more Arab men to take wives who are reverts, there are many revert women in the West who have a difficult time finding suitable marriage partners and that's a shame. Imagine the hassanat that can come from this, in all she is taught, it could be so rewarding for both. Right, that being said I'm finished. Sorry for hijacking the thread. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Honestly the idea is repulsive to me. Women are not animals to be collected as pets. We are as human as a man. How can you say that Islam is fair to woman when woman are not allowed the same privileges? How would a man feel if his wife had more than one husband?
We are not talking about just taking care of someone here. We are talking being willing for your husband to make love to another woman.
Sex is the most intense thing you can do with another human being. Ideally is is an act involving a total physical and spiritual connection to your spouse. It binds you together. The two become one. How can a man feel just as intensely connected with two or four women at one time?
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by of_gold:How can a man feel just as intensely connected with two or four women at one time? [/QB]
In a way that is SIMILAR but not EXACTLY the way a mother or father feels love and compassion for their 1, 2, 3, 4 or more children.
Even though they have several children the mother loves all of her children and the same with the father. To me the concept is easy to grasp.
And for the most part the woman's love for her children is normally stronger than her love for her husband (not saying that is ALWAYS the norm but it makes a strong case for it wa Allahu Ta'ala Alim). And there isn't any sex involved.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Does anyone know if a Muslim man can get married 4 times in a civil marriage at the Ministry of Justice?
Since an American Muslim didn't have any type of No Objection Letter from their Embassy. Would one assume that he could get married 4 times at the MOJ and each civil marriage be recognize by the U.S. Government?
Any concrete proof or evidence that this is possible or not?
Now I see the light...
OH, Pick me! Pick me!
............................................excuse me......while I vomit..
Passes sick bag to 'OG'.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: There is no doubt that the Muslims Nation as a whole is very far from practicing Al Islaam (including myself) in the manner that is should be and deserves. We ask Allah to help us to recitfy our situation and make us the example to others as was applied and demonstrated by our beloved Prophet Salallahu alayhi wassalaam and his righteous guide companions may Allah be pleased with ALL of them.
Islam in its original form is perfect and beautiful it is the Muslims who have the name Al Islaam a bad impression.
[/QB]
that is the most important thing you have said
BTW I am a second wife and I was a widow before my husband married me. There are plenty of men prepared t marry widows and divorcees. My husband was particualrly happy to take in my orphaned child, especially as she was the child of a fellow Arab.
I have also used the example of love for children does not diminish the more children you have.
Good for you Somewhere in the sands:
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: 'SITS' isn't the first American guy on this forum to be married to an Egyptian woman. Maybe they should start a support group.
I want to marry an Egyptian girl, my actual girlfriend or another one if we broke; I’m out of mind for the local women.
Posts: 41 | From: Cairo | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: How would a man feel if his wife had more than one husband?
Well that could never happen because how would they know who the father of any of the children were?
I agree though...If I were a guy I could never make love to one woman and then go and make love to another. I think I'd cry the entire time with the second one 'cause I would feel bad for the first one.
I would also spend my nights crying thinking about what he was doing with her if my husband ever got a second wife. That's why I cannot comprehend why any wife would push her husband to do this, but I guess everyone's different.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
In Tibet women do have more than one husband generally brothers. It means the men all get wives but the small amount of land they own is not divided too much.
All cultures have their rules and should be respected and not judged
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I recently watched a documentary on polyandry. It isn't given as much attention as polygyny but was interesting to watch. Some would argue that matrilineality (a system in which one belongs to one's mother's lineage)is a more logical system, as it's comparatively straightforward to identify the mother of a child. Today's DNA advances make it easier to identify fathers, of course. The reasons behind why different cultures adopted certain practices are fascinating.
''POLYANDRY (Gr. iroXis, many, and av p, man), the system of marriage between one woman and several men, who are her husbands exclusively (see Family). The custom locally legalizing the marriage of one woman to more than one husband at a time has been variously accounted for as the result of poverty and of life in unfertile lands, where it was essential to check population as the consequence of female infanticide, or, in the opinion of J. F. McLennan and L. H. Morgan, as a natural phase through which human progress has necessarily passed. Polyandry is to be carefully differentiated from communal marriage, where the woman is the property of any and every member of the tribe. Two distinct kinds of polyandry are practised: one, often called Nair, in which, as among the Nairs of India, the husbands are not related to each other; and the second, the Tibetan or fraternal polyandry, in which the woman is married to all the brothers of one family. Polyandry is practised by the tribes of Tibet, Kashmir and the Himalayan regions, by the Todas, Koorgs, Nairs and other peoples of India, in Ceylon, New Zealand, by some of the Australian aborigines, in parts of Africa, in the Aleutian archipelago, among the Koryaks and on the Orinoco.''
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
That's so weird to me that a wife would be pushing you to marry another wife.
My wife knows and understands the value of Islaam. What do you say about Solomon who known in the bible to have had 700 wives? I guess they were weird too right? Islaam wasn't the first to sanction polygamy..come on people.
I wonder do some people really think about things before they comment? [/QB]
Maybe not but the civilized cultures stopped doing that ages ago....... And at the time where the quran and other holy books was written, it was meant to be kind of socialsecurity net. What would your excuse be? sexual hobby? Birth maschine?
Posts: 528 | From: Denmark | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Mrs Tibe: Maybe not but the civilized cultures stopped doing that ages ago....... And at the time where the quran and other holy books was written, it was meant to be kind of socialsecurity net. What would your excuse be? sexual hobby? Birth maschine?
You need to do a bit of research before you open your mouth. I guess you would class America as "civilised" and yet many people there practise polygamy.
And who are you to judge what is "civilised" and what is not. Your so called "civilised" societies where old people dare not leave their homes and yobs rule the streets. Children do not see a male role model as men impregnate and move on. Siblings all have different fathers. This is "civilised"
At what point do you decide that you know better than the Bible or Koran. Are you God to decide which verses can be thrown aside because you are more "civilized" than the times when the books were written.
And who are you to decide what was the motivation behind the words of the Holy Book.
Your arrogance is obscene.
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Having read all the above, I would like to say i have not long come back to uk after marrying an Egyptian.
i was married earlier in March a muslim marriage, i return in August to marry civil. I had to register with Uk Consulate that i was free to marry and show my divorce papers, where they stamped and translated also in to Arabic.
We then took this to Court where had legal marriage contract, we then had all translated from one of list from Uk Consulate, we then presented at the UK consulate, where they stamped the English translation and kept two copies and we kept two.
On my return to Uk i change my name to my married name, including my passport. I just gave them copies of both the arabic and english copy.
I there found no problem over there in Egypt getting married.
It is important either the English and USA person to have declaration of being able to marry. Your partner also has to show he is free to marry including court papers of divorce.
i hope this clears things up for some people.
Our next stage is the immigration process.
if all fails then do look to other countries. but make sure you have all correct paper work, that does mean doing your homework.
take care
Jasmina
Posts: 1 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by babywhale: Having read all the above, I would like to say i have not long come back to uk after marrying an Egyptian.
i was married earlier in March a muslim marriage, i return in August to marry civil. I had to register with Uk Consulate that i was free to marry and show my divorce papers, where they stamped and translated also in to Arabic.
We then took this to Court where had legal marriage contract, we then had all translated from one of list from Uk Consulate, we then presented at the UK consulate, where they stamped the English translation and kept two copies and we kept two.
On my return to Uk i change my name to my married name, including my passport. I just gave them copies of both the arabic and english copy.
I there found no problem over there in Egypt getting married.
It is important either the English and USA person to have declaration of being able to marry. Your partner also has to show he is free to marry including court papers of divorce.
i hope this clears things up for some people.
Our next stage is the immigration process.
if all fails then do look to other countries. but make sure you have all correct paper work, that does mean doing your homework.
take care
Jasmina
I think people know all that. the problem is that the US embassy is not issuing the free to marry statement.
It is interesting though to see that they're not giving the UK folks a problem, only the US ones. . . .
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by babywhale: Having read all the above, I would like to say i have not long come back to uk after marrying an Egyptian.
i was married earlier in March a muslim marriage, i return in August to marry civil. I had to register with Uk Consulate that i was free to marry and show my divorce papers, where they stamped and translated also in to Arabic.
We then took this to Court where had legal marriage contract, we then had all translated from one of list from Uk Consulate, we then presented at the UK consulate, where they stamped the English translation and kept two copies and we kept two.
On my return to Uk i change my name to my married name, including my passport. I just gave them copies of both the arabic and english copy.
I there found no problem over there in Egypt getting married.
It is important either the English and USA person to have declaration of being able to marry. Your partner also has to show he is free to marry including court papers of divorce.
i hope this clears things up for some people.
Our next stage is the immigration process.
if all fails then do look to other countries. but make sure you have all correct paper work, that does mean doing your homework.
take care
Jasmina
I think people know all that. the problem is that the US embassy is not issuing the free to marry statement.
It is interesting though to see that they're not giving the UK folks a problem, only the US ones. . . .
The underlying problem which the U.S. Governments says is the problem is that there is not central U.S.A. database by which any U.S. Government authority can check to verify if a U.S. Citizen is married or divorce.
The Egyptian Government wants the U.S. Government to PROVE that it's citizens are free to marry and the U.S. Governments says we can't do that bascially because there is no central database that house these records.
A person can get married lets say in Illinois and obtain a divorce in Idaho and then the next day obtain a marriage license in Nevada. There is no way to track this incidents and the only way to prove that any took place is that one would have to know where, where and who got married and verify each State's records. U.S. Citizen to not have a centralize Federal ID network. Yes, there are passport, but this is not a required form of ID (YET) and there are driver's licenses and individual State IDs. However, no Federal ID system for it's citizens.
And the statement still does ring true. The U.S. Government (Federal Government) does not authorize or issue marriage licenses. It is done at the State or County levels.
Therein lies the problem for SOME American citizen wanting to get married in a civil marriage in Egypt.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
The UK authorities are in the same boat with no central authority but for some reason this has not become an issue in Egypt and the Embassy no objection is still accepted
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: I think people know all that. the problem is that the US embassy is not issuing the free to marry statement.
It is interesting though to see that they're not giving the UK folks a problem, only the US ones. . . .
Also when I wrote the U.S. State Department I was told that the reason they stop issuing the free to marry statement was because the Egyptian Government would not accept it. Ms. Ritche said that "why should we take $30 from it's citizens and issue them a document which the Egyptian Government will reject?"
This is the official reason from the U.S. State Department as to why they have stop issuing the document. I can imagine a lot of Americans being upset that their document was worthless and wanting at bare minimum their money back. Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by akshar: The UK authorities are in the same boat with no central authority but for some reason this has not become an issue in Egypt and the Embassy no objection is still accepted
Thanks. I thought that was the case but was not sure, so I did not comment on it one way or the other. I just commented on the position of the U.S. Government.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Wouldn't you in her shoes be pushing for more wives?
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)
Printer-friendly view of this topic