quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by akshar: The UK authorities are in the same boat with no central authority but for some reason this has not become an issue in Egypt and the Embassy no objection is still accepted
Thanks. I thought that was the case but was not sure, so I did not comment on it one way or the other. I just commented on the position of the U.S. Government.
There are centralized records for England and Wales, but Northern Ireland and Scotland have their own registers, but they are all accessible for verification of births, deaths, and marriages.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by akshar: The UK authorities are in the same boat with no central authority but for some reason this has not become an issue in Egypt and the Embassy no objection is still accepted
Thanks. I thought that was the case but was not sure, so I did not comment on it one way or the other. I just commented on the position of the U.S. Government.
There are centralized records for England and Wales, but Northern Ireland and Scotland have their own registers, but they are all accessible for verification of births, deaths, and marriages.
but there is no centralised register of citizens with their marital status and no way to prove whether they are single or married. You can verify a marriage but you can not verify that someone is single.
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by akshar: The UK authorities are in the same boat with no central authority but for some reason this has not become an issue in Egypt and the Embassy no objection is still accepted
Thanks. I thought that was the case but was not sure, so I did not comment on it one way or the other. I just commented on the position of the U.S. Government.
There are centralized records for England and Wales, but Northern Ireland and Scotland have their own registers, but they are all accessible for verification of births, deaths, and marriages.
but there is no centralised register of citizens with their marital status and no way to prove whether they are single or married. You can verify a marriage but you can not verify that someone is single.
is this what you are talking about akshar Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Karah_Mia: I think I will retire in Tibet.
You want to pick up after more than one man, wash more than one set of smelly socks and NEVER EVER have the toilet seat down Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Karah_Mia: I think I will retire in Tibet.
You want to pick up after more than one man, wash more than one set of smelly socks and NEVER EVER have the toilet seat down
Good point J - I was rather thinking of a few muscular studs waving the palm trees above me while I am stretching in the hammock or making tea and cookies for me when the weather is too cold... Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
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I agree, I don't think it's that hard to fathom. How many men (and women)have affairs then come home and are intimate with their spouses? Marrying more than one wife makes it "legal", religiously speaking.
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet:
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: How can a man feel just as intensely connected with two or four women at one time?
quote:Originally posted by Mother War: I agree, I don't think it's that hard to fathom. How many men (and women)have affairs then come home and are intimate with their spouses? Marrying more than one wife makes it "legal", religiously speaking.
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet:
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: How can a man feel just as intensely connected with two or four women at one time?
Oh you would be surprised ...LMAO
Exactly MW and this is something that Islam is completely practical about, yet you have biased persons who will claim otherwise. It is better off for the 2nd/3rd/4th woman (and her/their children) to be a 2nd/3rd/4th wife rather than a mistress(es) - e.g. more rights, including inheritance, etc.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: Exactly MW and this is something that Islam is completely practical about, yet you have biased persons who will claim otherwise. It is better off for the 2nd/3rd/4th woman (and her/their children) to be a 2nd/3rd/4th wife rather than a mistress(es) - e.g. more rights, including inheritance, etc.
Here here
And isn't is better for the society as well rather than a string of single and divorced women and their children and no male role model.
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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It's not something I could personally handle but I'm not against it. If a man can truly be fair to more than one wife and the women involved are ok with it then why not?
I agree, it is better for society than single women with fatherless children. BUT...the husband has to be fair to all women and children involved. I believe this would be a difficult thing for many men. Many NOT all.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mother War: It's not something I could personally handle but I'm not against it. If a man can truly be fair to more than one wife and the women involved are ok with it then why not?
I agree, it is better for society than single women with fatherless children. BUT...the husband has to be fair to all women and children involved. I believe this would be a difficult thing for many men. Many NOT all.
You are not the only one MW because only 2% of Muslim marriages are polygamous. Yet for those who are involved in such marriages it works for them. It is a huge responsibility and the 2% statistic reflects this fact. Bigots who stigmatize such relationships are obviously ignorant of the realities of life. They also possess unabated contempt for Allah’s decrees that don’t suit their personal fancies. I wish they could understand that it is nothing personal. Islam merely offers practical solutions.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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I have and NEVER will God Willing understand how it perfectly ACCEPTABLE in some "Civilized" societies to have a mistress who has no legal rights, is of course not married, may produce children out of wedlock, maybe the reason for martial problems in the relationship where is is the 3rd party..etc..etc..
Rather it is not accept in a "Civilized Socieity" not to have the man take the full responsibility financially and emotionally in terms of marrying a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th wife ,which the union will God Willing, will produce legitimate children, her rights as a wife will be protected by the law, she will not be someone who is ashame or hidden from friends and family etc..I can go on and on..do you get my point?
-------------------- 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و سلم) took hold of my shoulder and said, "Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveller." Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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Totally disagree IMO A man with multiple wives is a man with no self control or commitment, he is a horrible role model for any child. Why even be married at all if you can't be faithful to one person, what a loveless way to live. There is nothing wrong with single or divorced women, they are the same as single or divorced men.
Personally the thought of polygamy makes me sick, but IMO if it exists then it should be fair, the women should be able to have 2nd , 3rd and 4th husbands as well. Posts: 81 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mazey: IMO if it exists then it should be fair, the women should be able to have 2nd , 3rd and 4th husbands as well.
‘Fair’ in this situation would only worsen and divide society. Men and women simply think differently. Women having more than one husband in Islam might very well lead to bloodshed among other negative scenarios.
Please think rationally and not with contempt because in doing so we can't be constructive.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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No I wouldn't Sobriquet. Your snide remark sounds like a crude sexual comment.
We have a similar situation here, it is just called something else. I have been offered this arrangement myself, where he would take care of me financially and see and travel with me when not with his wife. They are not called co wives but mistresses. Maybe the man can love both but he can't love both in the same way.
If you consider that a man is allowed to have 4 wives. That would mean that each wife gets approximately one week out of the month to be with her husband, twelve weeks a year.
Everyone is an individual and individuals marry for different reasons. It is nobodys business who someone chooses to marry or why. No one can judge another fairly by their own feelings. If this is what a woman chooses for their happiness then I am sure they have their reasons that are different than mine. I am not their judge and do not condem them.
What I don't understand is how someone can applaud polygamy on one thread then criticize someone else on another thread who is in love with a married man. A bit hypocritical in my view.
I think what bothers me most is not that some make this choice but the callous way that sands has approached it. He does not say that I know this widow that needs a father for her child. His approach is, one down three to go. When in Rome..."Like" I am allowed to keep four dogs in my yard and I only have one. In my view it is a total disrespect for his wife. It also gives the impression that this is the reason or one of the reasons he converted to Islam. Whether this is the reason or not it is the impression that I get. I do not see or feel the love and peace of God through your post. You may not care what I think but if you want someone who does not understand Islam to want to learn more, your presentation of it lacks this and shows Islam in a negitive light. IMHO I want it clear that I am saying this to you sands, not to other Muslims who have shown me the good and loving side of Islam, whom I respect for their conduct.
For me love is my sole reason to marry. I do realize that love alone is not enough. I consider whom I marry to be the most important choice I have to make. He will be my other half, not quartered or thirds. I don't even want to live in Tibet where a woman can have more than one husband. My desire is to experience the fullness of the connection with one man. I want him in my bed every night and the things we share special and exclusive.
Maybe this sounds silly to some or idealistic, so let it be. I am idealistic. I am a pacifist as well and would like to see peace in the world. I want to see the end of poverty and hunger. I want a world where you love your neighbor, where you help the down trodden. All of these things are idealistic, I know. But nothing can every be gotten without first believing that it is possible to obtain.
Peace.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Having multiple husbands/wives... all the same IMO . It shouldn't be accepted at all in any society.
Having more than one wife also causes bloodshed and other negative scenarios, in my society.
Posts: 81 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mazey: A man with multiple wives is a man with no self control or commitment,
No a man with a mistress is the one with no control, a man who marries under Islam has loads of control and commitment.
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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Neither a man with a mistress or a man with multiple wives have self control or commitment.
Posts: 81 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Sep 2007
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You know ladies this is a no-win situation with most of you. So I will drop it. I keep forgetting that my objective is to keep you ES hotties happy and speaking my mind is not going to achieve this objective.
Personally I am a one woman guy from love to financial considerations. I am however naturally horny and at times I just wonder and I mean I just wonder what it would feel like to take a flirt one step higher. Nothing more and nothing less. I know this hottie from one of my classes and I’ll leave it there and that’s where it’ll stay there as not materializing. People assume that marrying a second partner is doable, personally I don’t see how. Those who undertake such marriages know how and they do so because nine times out of ten it works for them.
I’m a wishful thinker in this regard Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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Obviously a man who goes into a marriage of any kind has some level of commitment. Marriage is a commitment even if there are multiple wives involved.
I understand you're passionate about this subject but don't let this passion cloud your reasoning. If you don't personally want to enter this type of arrangement..don't. Don't knock ppl who do chose this.
quote:Originally posted by Mazey: Neither a man with a mistress or a man with multiple wives have self control or commitment.
posted
Women with more than one husband also would have a hard time determining whose child she's carrying if children do come into the picture.
Again let's not fight about whether or not polygamy is right. It's right for some ppl. It's not necessary to get ourselves worked up over others' choices.
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet:
quote:Originally posted by Mazey: IMO if it exists then it should be fair, the women should be able to have 2nd , 3rd and 4th husbands as well.
‘Fair’ in this situation would only worsen and divide society. Men and women simply think differently. Women having more than one husband in Islam might very well lead to bloodshed among other negative scenarios.
Please think rationally and not with contempt because in doing so we can't be constructive.
posted
I'm not getting worked up at all. If someone chooses to be in such a marriage that's their choice. I'm simple stating that I think it is wrong and despicable.
Let's not even bring the idea of children into this.
Posts: 81 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mazey: I'm not getting worked up at all. If someone chooses to be in such a marriage that's their choice. I'm simple stating that I think it is wrong and despicable.
Let's not even bring the idea of children into this.
In essence you are calling Islam wrong and despicable. Is that how you feel about Muslims and our religion?
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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I never said anything about Islam. I don't view polygamy as a religious issue at all, it is a personal choice.
Posts: 81 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mazey: I'm not getting worked up at all. If someone chooses to be in such a marriage that's their choice. I'm simple stating that I think it is wrong and despicable.
Let's not even bring the idea of children into this.
In essence you are calling Islam wrong and despicable. Is that how you feel about Muslims and our religion?
Good point, got an answer Mazey
Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mazey: I never said anything about Islam. I don't view polygamy as a religious issue at all, it is a personal choice.
But it is very much religious and very much Islamic. It is in the Holy Quran, the Prophet (saw) married several wives, other prophets married several wives, the esteemed companions married several wives, some of people we respect and have compassion for are in polygamous relationships and are afforded rights as stipulated in Islam.
Maybe you could say that but are you comfortable telling Muslims what you deem to be a part of their religion or not?
Seems one sided, one that totally disregards Islam and Muslims.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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You see it as a religious issue, I don't. As I said I think it is a personal choice. I am comfortable telling anyone of any faith that I don't approve of such marriages.
Polygamy exists in many religions, not just Islam, even in my own. I am not going to apoligize if I offended you or any one else, this is my opinion and my opinion only.
Posts: 81 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mazey: You see it as a religious issue, I don't. As I said I think it is a personal choice. I am comfortable telling anyone of any faith that I don't approve of such marriages.
Polygamy exists in many religions, not just Islam, even in my own. I am not going to apoligize if I offended you or any one else, this is my opinion and my opinion only.
I am not seeking an apology – apologizes on this level are meaningless. I merely wanted you to realize how you views come off and that is one of intolerance towards Islam. Allah (swt) permitted Polygamy and you basically find such ayat (verses) ‘despicable’.
Hate and intolerance for Islam and Muslims is nothing new, it’s all over this board. You are right it is your opinion and thank you for sharing them.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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Mazey, I feel the same as you do. Even the thought of it for myself is well, to be honest, repulsive. This is not a judgment of others but just the physical way the thought of it makes me feel. The idea of the man I love being inside me then going next door to the next wife makes me feel physically ill.
We have got to consider though that different people view marriage differently. Even people in our own society. Some view it as a business. This is practiced in the U.S. often. In groups where status is the most important thing. Many will marry into the right family or for money. They may not look at it in the terms of love but need. The practice of polygamy was started at a time when woman had no other option. The woman literally needed a man for survival.
If you look at maslow's hierarchy of needs you will see that the basic needs must be met first before you can move to the next need. Next is the safety needs which a husband would also provide. Then comes the social needs, the need to belong. Even the self esteem needs may be met in some cultures by having a husband, even if you have to share one. What I don't see being met in this type of arrangement is the self actualization need which I don't think most ever get to this point for it to matter.
I don't see this as a religious issue either. There are other religions who practice this, even Christianity and people who are not religious at all. It was practiced in the bible. Look at Abraham. Also, most Muslims do not practice polygamy.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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I understand some may disagree with my views, but that's what it is SOB a disagreement of views, you have turned it into an attack on your religion. Do you always get offended so easily when someone doesn't agree with your beliefs?
Posts: 81 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mazey: I understand some may disagree with my views, but that's what it is SOB a disagreement of views, you have turned it into an attack on your religion. Do you always get offended so easily when someone doesn't agree with your beliefs?
I am simply baffled by your choice of words in describing something that is a part of Islam, you are new here and I wanted to know how you feel. I know now. I am not offended at all … I simply wanted you to know how you come off and despite your beliefs that it is not religious,it is very much religious to most muslims.
Put it this way would I ever tell a hindu he is despicable for a worshiping a cow – no I wouldn’t. Would i tell a hindu that worshiping a cow is despicable act, no i wouldn't.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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Mazey, I really think it's your approach to criticism that may be considered offensive. Saying that something that God has made lawful is wrong and dispicable may be offensive to some. If you simply stated that you don't agree with this it wouldn't be offensive.
For example, I don't eat pork but I don't say that ppl who do chose to eat it are dispicable or disgusting or even wrong. It's wrong for me but not for everyone according to their beliefs.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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It is called tolerance Mazey, try it. You might be pleasantly surprised
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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I use the word despicable meaning vile, I think it is unacceptable. That is how I feel. That is actually what I am going to say. If you want to look at it in a religious way then so be it, I don't view it that way.
To me it plays no role in religion at all.
I am a pork eater, it wouldn't bother me at all if you told me that you thought is was discussing, despicable or wrong, that is your opinion. I am Christian, if someone told me that I was a nut case for praying to Jesus, that is their opinion/beliefs. I don't take offense to others opinions.
Posts: 81 | From: U.S.A | Registered: Sep 2007
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I'm sorry but IMO polygamy is simply put in place to please the man. Just because it 'happens' to keep women from being mistresses, help with inheritance or keep them from being single is beside the point. Look at the reality of it today...look at the MAJORITY of 2nd, 3rd and 4th wives, are they alone, divorced or widowed? I know some are but the large majority ARE NOT. IMO men abuse their ability to have more than one wife and I honestly CANNOT IMAGINE how he could treat each one fairly, it's impossible.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: Exactly MW and this is something that Islam is completely practical about, yet you have biased persons who will claim otherwise. It is better off for the 2nd/3rd/4th woman (and her/their children) to be a 2nd/3rd/4th wife rather than a mistress(es) - e.g. more rights, including inheritance, etc.
Here here
And isn't is better for the society as well rather than a string of single and divorced women and their children and no male role model.
A male rolemodel can also be an uncle, a good friends father or a granpa. Dont a mother also have to be a good rolemodel? What signal will you as a mother sent to your kids if you are wife no 2-3-4??? That men are superior to women and that your not good enough to earn 1 mans full love and respect? Not trying to disrespect you but i honestly cant see why anyone could cope with that. IMO true love is a special bond between 2 people - not between a man and a women on wedneysday to saturday and then with another women from sunday to tuesday. - That must give confussed children and a low selfesteem.
Posts: 528 | From: Denmark | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: Exactly MW and this is something that Islam is completely practical about, yet you have biased persons who will claim otherwise. It is better off for the 2nd/3rd/4th woman (and her/their children) to be a 2nd/3rd/4th wife rather than a mistress(es) - e.g. more rights, including inheritance, etc.
Here here
And isn't is better for the society as well rather than a string of single and divorced women and their children and no male role model.
A male rolemodel can also be an uncle, a good friends father or a granpa. Dont a mother also have to be a good rolemodel? What signal will you as a mother sent to your kids if you are wife no 2-3-4??? That men are superior to women and that your not good enough to earn 1 mans full love and respect? Not trying to disrespect you but i honestly cant see why anyone could cope with that. IMO true love is a special bond between 2 people - not between a man and a women on wedneysday to saturday and then with another women from sunday to tuesday. - That must give confussed children and a low selfesteem.
Agreed.
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I'm sorry but IMO polygamy is simply put in place to please the man. Just because it 'happens' to keep women from being mistresses, help with inheritance or keep them from being single is beside the point. Look at the reality of it today...look at the MAJORITY of 2nd, 3rd and 4th wives, are they alone, divorced or widowed? I know some are but the large majority ARE NOT. IMO men abuse their ability to have more than one wife and I honestly CANNOT IMAGINE how he could treat each one fairly, it's impossible.
It seems to me that he would have to view the marriage differently than being the husband of one wife. With one wife the husband and wife they complete each other. The two halves become a whole. They move as one. She is his help mate. They share everything, their joy and sorrow.
With two or more wives the husband and wife unit are no longer a one whole because he is split between them. Can't possibly be a whole with 1/2 and 1/4. It does not equal a whole no matter which way you add it together. He would have to view them as a group or as someone stated earlier children or maybe students.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Akshar is in this type of marriage and is very obviously satisfied. Doesn't that count for anything? Let's not assume because you couldn't handle this type of marriage, that all women feel the same. We can't say these women have low self esteem or are bad role models for their children simply because their husbands have more than one wife. Do you not think that this is "normal" for a child who is being raised in a polygamist family?
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: You know ladies this is a no-win situation with most of you. So I will drop it. I keep forgetting that my objective is to keep you ES hotties happy and speaking my mind is not going to achieve this objective.
Personally I am a one woman guy from love to financial considerations. I am however naturally horny and at times I just wonder and I mean I just wonder what it would feel like to take a flirt one step higher. Nothing more and nothing less. I know this hottie from one of my classes and I’ll leave it there and that’s where it’ll stay there as not materializing. People assume that marrying a second partner is doable, personally I don’t see how. Those who undertake such marriages know how and they do so because nine times out of ten it works for them.
I’m a wishful thinker in this regard
Sobriquet, you talk about a hottie in one breath and in the next you say it is Islam. Give me a break. Your post supports Smuckers sentiment.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: You know ladies this is a no-win situation with most of you. So I will drop it. I keep forgetting that my objective is to keep you ES hotties happy and speaking my mind is not going to achieve this objective.
Personally I am a one woman guy from love to financial considerations. I am however naturally horny and at times I just wonder and I mean I just wonder what it would feel like to take a flirt one step higher. Nothing more and nothing less. I know this hottie from one of my classes and I’ll leave it there and that’s where it’ll stay there as not materializing. People assume that marrying a second partner is doable, personally I don’t see how. Those who undertake such marriages know how and they do so because nine times out of ten it works for them.
I’m a wishful thinker in this regard
Sobriquet, you talk about a hottie in one breath and in the next you say it is Islam. Give me a break. Your post supports Smuckers sentiment.
Sorry if i confused you - my argument is not personal at all - why is it supposed to be?
My pro-polygamy stance is not my opinion it is simply based on facts via Quran + Sunnah + Islamic legislature in the Islamic world.
In this debate/discussion i opted to refute those who act on their fancies.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
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I think that there are some things in life that you just cannot understand completely unless you are raised with those beliefs all your life.
My husband and I have talked about this issue many times and even thou I understand the whys and hows this happens emotionally I cannot understand it.
But then there have been things that happen here that he doesn’t get no matter how hard he tries, like when my family gets together and starts joking about sex.
Different cultures and religions have different perspectives of our lives and the ways we should live our lives and if we all agreed and did things the same way…well then this world would be a very boring place.
Its like when I lived in Egypt and my mother in law wanted to teach me how to hand wash laundry my answer was if god wanted me to hand wash laundry I would have been born a pioneer woman. THAT is my culture and perhaps most women from my culture would react similarly. But of course she didn’t understand at alllll my reaction to hand washing.
oops the smile went without the message haha
-------------------- S Posts: 15 | From: Colorado | Registered: Oct 2007
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My husband and I talked about this last night and my question to him was:
Lets say you came home and said honey, whats for dinner? By the way this is Trixie and she will be your co-wife.
Everything is fine for say a week and Saturday rolls around and I want to move the couch to the other side of the room.. Trixie on the other hand wants to move the couch to the garage. After much debate Trixie and I start pulling each others hair and poking eachother in the eye.
When you come home from work the house is a mess, the kids are missing and Trixie and I are crying to you about she wants this and she wants that and if you love me you will make it better…….
If he picks my side then I will hate him, if he picks Trixies side she will hate him
My question to him was what do you do?
His answer was silly habibi I would never marry a girl named Trixie so that story would never happen.
-------------------- S Posts: 15 | From: Colorado | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
if you read a little further along you will see that Allah also says:
"You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. (Quran 4:129).
I will repeat it again for those who only read the first part of the chapter
"You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. (Quran 4:129).
NOTE: THE DIRECT WORDS OF ALLAH! ( you can NEVER )!
The Quran also says that you should be content with only one wife or what you already have (for those who are already married to more than one). This way you are more likely to avoid inequity. However, God says that one can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard one tries. Since being equitable is such an important commandment in the Quran, monogamy is greatly encouraged.
However, if a man wants to take on this challenge , that is between him and his Creator, (Quran 4:129).
Seems the message there is pretty clear when you care to read the whole thing.
Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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Most muslims (men and women) that i know beleive that it was fitting in those days of the prophet because there was so manys wars that women lost their husbands. The ratio of women to men were also higher because so many young men were off fighting. That is why is was allowed. In today's society there is no need for such a thing and i (personally) believe that some men that do this want 'their cake and eat it'. Some men may marry a widow with young children, or divorcee etc with the right intention (god only knows what is in their hearts) but i think they are few and far between. As for SANDS saying about mistressess in the west NOONE is saying that is rightor acceptable. That arguement is totally stupid it makes you sound very immature saying that:
Sands Quote -I have and NEVER will God Willing understand how it perfectly ACCEPTABLE in some "Civilized" societies to have a mistress who has no legal rights, is of course not married, may produce children out of wedlock, maybe the reason for martial problems in the relationship where is is the 3rd party..etc..etc..
I am sorry sands i am not trying to be rude to you at all but i do feel that that arguement is very silly. I have never met a single person in the QUOTE-"Civilized" societies - that think men or women that have affairs are acceptable. Of course it happens and it does all over the world whatever your beliefs. Are you trying to that because muslim men are allowed up to 4 wives that they don't have affairs?
I could go on and on about this subject but i won't. Take care of yourselves!
Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: I think what bothers me most is not that some make this choice but the callous way that sands has approached it. He does not say that I know this widow that needs a father for her child. His approach is, one down three to go. When in Rome..."Like" I am allowed to keep four dogs in my yard and I only have one. In my view it is a total disrespect for his wife. It also gives the impression that this is the reason or one of the reasons he converted to Islam. Whether this is the reason or not it is the impression that I get. I do not see or feel the love and peace of God through your post. You may not care what I think but if you want someone who does not understand Islam to want to learn more, your presentation of it lacks this and shows Islam in a negitive light. IMHO I want it clear that I am saying this to you sands, not to other Muslims who have shown me the good and loving side of Islam, whom I respect for their conduct.
Wow after 4 hours of sleep wake up and come to this.
I only have a few words (NOT) on rebuttle of_Gold.
First of all I've been a Muslim for more than 23 years walhamdulillah. So I just didn't convert or revert to Al-Islaam. In the 23 years I have had several opportunities to make upon a 2nd wife. While working in Saudi Arabia, during the Bonsia genocide (war) there we a lot of orphans and widows who were granted visas to come to Saudia Arabia and live and during that time it was encourage to marry them. I thought about this and asked my wife at the time (who was a Christian) what do you think about this idea weight the plus and minuses and she said do it. After carefully thinking about it I choose not to (Again I had my own personal reason after reflecting) long and hard over the situation.
Today I am now married again and the issue of polygamy was discussed with my wife before marriage, however this time she was the one who initiated. I told her I've had this option previously and I declined it. She had her reasons and some of them have been discussed on the forum. Many of them have to do with the benefits of polygamy. There is one hadeeth that says:
"Truly you will not believe until you want for your Muslim brother that which you want for yourself."
This is the hadeeth she made reference to me and one of the reasons why she was was for polygamy. She said that she believes that she will have a good husband and that she wanted the same for her sisters in Islaam. Might sound strange or corny to you of_Gold, but this is what was said. Allahu Masta'an.
She told me that she feels that I have an obligation to take a co-wive because I have the financial ability to afford one and their are needy women in the community. (In theory she is right) and I know you're not going to believe me, but sometimes I do feel guilty about this. But I feel that I can help and support another wowman without having the need to marry her. It's not right because marriage is more than financial support and anyone married knows this.
I believe you're barking up the wrong tree. You are blaming or criticizes me for something, even though I believe it, accept it i.e. polygamy and understand its benefits and HAVE had several opportunities to do it with women who were not even remotely opposed to it, yet the fact of the matter I still choose NOT to take a 2nd wife at this time.
Again Allah is my witness, but I choose not to elaborate more but some things are personal.
In fact I have expressed in earlier post that if or when I choose to take a 2nd wife I have already agreed and discussed this issue with my first wife that it will be a decision made jointly. Subhana Allah. I personally would never bring another sister in my marriage who would not add to the marriage in a peacefully way. Meaning, I believe the co-wives must co-exist, love, honor and respect one another. Wo wants to be a marriage where the co-wives don't get alone? What type of marriage would that be for all parties involved?
However, I went into this marriage with a renewed committment. The committment was that divorce is NOT an option PERIOD. That I would love, honor and respect my wife with all that I have no matter what she does or gives me. We Americans have a saying: "It's better to give then receive." I believe the best way to get love is to give it unconditionally, no strings attached whatsoever, and the more pure love you give in this manner, trust me the more you will receive.
The Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: "Rewards are based upon intentions and everyone will be rewarded based upon what he intended..."
Every single day. Every single moment I am seeing the fruits of my intentions shown to me by my wife. (I hope you get what I am trying to say).
There is another saying: "You can please some of the some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time." So if you see something in me of_Gold that you don't like then yes it is you that has a problem, not me. For I am not trying to live my life to impress you or anyone else for that matter. I know that sounds harsh, but it is the reality and don't let my character distract you from accepting Al-Islaam?
I've said this again in closing. None of us are perfect. We all have mistakes and issue within us that need correcting. Many of us give or respective religions a bad name, and this includes those of us who are Muslims and follow Islaam. However, the best suggestion that I can say to you of_Gold (since this issue was directly to me by you) is that if you continue to love and respect Islaam and don't look at the people, look at the message that was brought by the Messenger (may the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him).
One person asked Ayesha (May Allah be pleased with her) how was the character of the messenger (may Allah be pleased with him) and she said have you read the Quran..His character (may Allah be pleased with) was the Quran.
Do not let the Muslims be your reasons for not accepting the Al-Islaam.
(plese forgive all of my typos..and I'm not even going to spell check this)..LOL
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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IMO A man with multiple wives is a man with no self control or commitment, he is a horrible role model for any child. Why even be married at all if you can't be faithful to one person, what a loveless way to live. There is nothing wrong with single or divorced women, they are the same as single or divorced men. 
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