posted
Yes newcomer, but I thought we might discuss it as it pertains to the arab world.
When I first saw this in Egypt I was rather shocked, but I quickly got used to seeing it. While I find it refreshing that men are openly able to show affection to one another (and why not?) I also find it equally nice that the women do so easily as well.
I am finding more and more that those that are NOT engaged nor married are not as quick to hold hands or arms...which brings the point, is homosexuality easier to conceal (in an open way?) than heterosexual unwedded relationships? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Yes newcomer, but I thought we might discuss it as it pertains to the arab world.
Ok, smuckers, if you think that there are traits to this behaviour that are specific to the Arab world, I'll wait to hear your ideas.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
i want to here them newcomer and assured smucks does too. i feel a good feeling when i see this. at least people are showing acts of friendship and we need more of that in this world. it doesn't mean everyone is gay because they hold hands . i wish more people could be that affectionate towards their friends Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MICKY A: i want to here them newcomer and assured smucks does too. i feel a good feeling when i see this. at least people are showing acts of friendship and we need more of that in this world. it doesn't mean everyone is gay because they hold hands . i wish more people could be that affectionate towards their friends
I agree, I have noticed that (at least in America) there must be some serious homophobia going on where the men cannot even be friendly in this manner...but it is a different culture so I guess that is understandable.
Did you have a shock when you first saw it Micky? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
yes i did i asked hubby why they did it and the girls do it too , but when he explained it to me , i felt happy about how such a nation loves their friends so much, here in the states they would all talk but thats ashame its just an act of love towards friend, a beautiful thing Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Most western visitors to Egypt are suprised to see men holding hands, yet learn that it is frowned upon for even married couples to display affection in public, by the more traditional element.
Having spent a lot of time in Egypt, it's not something I give a second thought about, but it is a surprise to many tourists! Smucker's point on married men not holding hands so much is an interesting one.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I must admit I feel uncomfortable when I see boy's/males holding hands and with arms around each other. And the kissing when they meet is another matter. I have been brought up in a culture where this does not happen so perhaps thats why I am uncomfortable.
Also being western I can only shake hands with male friends, in this country, normally a close male friend would get a peck on the cheek...that is not accepted here in Egypt
Posts: 643 | From: Over there | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual:
I believe that many marriages in Egypt are lavender ones.
seriously?
I have thought that as well....just look out your window, or when you go shopping...... Posts: 643 | From: Over there | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why would homosexuality be higher in Egypt than anywhere else? I appreciate the arguments that may be made, regarding frustrated sexuality, general attitudes and civil liberties. Being a homosexual isn't regarded as a matter of convenience in the west. Pragmatic homosexuality in Egypt? Not sure I buy it. Any research to support on this?
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I know there MUST BE homosexuality in Egypt as in any other country, I just wonder how it can be established to be higher than anywhere else, also. Especially if people aren't willing to admit to it...someone said a while back that it could be because of the sexual frustration going on here, but would that really turn you gay? I don't care how sexually frustrated I might get, sorry, I'm not finding another woman appealing ...
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
SWYS, homosexuality numbers are not higher or lower in Egypt than anywhere else. I said that there are many lavender marriages, maybe a little less or equivalent to the number of the homosexuals in Egypt who would never dare come out of the Anbooba Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I don't care how sexually frustrated I might get, sorry, I'm not finding another woman appealing ...
Errr, wait till you get pregnant with a boy and then talk, OK?
Man, those were the most disgusting dreams. Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual:
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I don't care how sexually frustrated I might get, sorry, I'm not finding another woman appealing ...
Errr, wait till you get pregnant with a boy and then talk, OK?
Man, those were the most disgusting dreams.
ROFL omg, I did have a dream when I was pregnant with this little girl, but it was really bad I can't say it...that's normal?? Freaky weird dreams? I just thought I was a freak. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
MK, no, you didn't. The phrase ''many marriages in Egypt are lavender ones' gave me that impression. I wouldn't say this about western marriages but your point on the anbooba would contribute to a difference.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: ROFL omg, I did have a dream when I was pregnant with this little girl, but it was really bad I can't say it...that's normal?? Freaky weird dreams? I just thought I was a freak.
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual:
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: ROFL omg, I did have a dream when I was pregnant with this little girl, but it was really bad I can't say it...that's normal?? Freaky weird dreams? I just thought I was a freak.
Yes, totally normal.
Scheisse, no?
Moi Scheisse Zift! (that's three languages in one). Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: MK, no, you didn't. The phrase ''many marriages in Egypt are lavender ones' gave me that impression. I wouldn't say this about western marriages but your point on the anbooba would contribute to a difference.
posted
of-gold...it's traditionally regarded as not appropriate in public. There are exceptions, of course, and you do see Egyptian couples holding hands. They are outnumbered by men holding hands with men though!
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
...but why is it tradition to be not appropriate to hold a womans hand yet it is appropriate for men to hold hands?
Something else that comes to my mind is that men are stimulated by touching. I am sure that every woman can attest to this.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^^ Men are stimulated by anything- be it touch or smell or sound or a gunshot in the face.
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Is that what Dick was doing for his lawyer friend? Stimulating him. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: someone said a while back that it could be because of the sexual frustration going on here, but would that really turn you gay? I don't care how sexually frustrated I might get, sorry, I'm not finding another woman appealing ...
The Arab World seems to have a different definition of homosexuality than the West.
Men that have anal intercourse with other men, aren't necessarily gay, aslong as they are doing the penetration.
If they are being penetrated, then they would be considered unmanly, as the penetratee is seen as submissive and feminine (and thus truly gay), while the penetrator is seen as dominant and masculine.
Therefore, men that engage in or display homosexual behaviour, may not even consider themselves gay.
This strange irony can be seen in the West aswell, in prisons and other single sex institutions.
In a single sex environment, men that would not normally take part in homosexual acts in the real World, engage in sexual acts with other men, where one is dominant and the other submissive.
The dominant one still retains his masculinity, and if he ever gets out of prison, will most likely go back to banging women full time.
The submissive one however, has the label of "truly gay," and will never be considered masculine.
All in all, there is a major difference here between sexual behaviour, and sexual orientation.
Sexual behaviour does not define sexual orientation, and sexual orientation does not define sexual behaviour.
I think that this is the sort of mentality that exists in the Arab world in regards to same sex relationships.
The Ancient World had this sort of mentality aswell.
I wrote a paper in college on Human Sexuality, so I've researched this subject before.
posted
Alistair, I would have given you a C for all those ofcourse's, aswell's, and aslong's. Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Most western visitors to Egypt are suprised to see men holding hands, yet learn that it is frowned upon for even married couples to display affection in public, by the more traditional element.
This is ultimately what stumped me aswell.
It seems that normal heterosexual behaviour is persecuted in the Arab World, while homosexual behaviour is allowed to flourish.
Some nations are worse than others, and the mentality could manifest itself anywhere from single sex modes of transportation (as seen in Egypt), to it being illegal to correspond with a member of the opposite sex that isn't a family member or spouse; as seen in Saudi Arabia.
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: someone said a while back that it could be because of the sexual frustration going on here, but would that really turn you gay? I don't care how sexually frustrated I might get, sorry, I'm not finding another woman appealing ...
The Arab World seems to have a different definition of homosexuality than the West.
Men that have anal intercourse with other men, aren't necessarily gay, aslong as they are doing the penetration.
If they are being penetrated, then they would be considered unmanly, as the penetratee is seen as submissive and feminine (and thus truly gay), while the penetrator is seen as dominant and masculine.
Therefore, men that engage in or display homosexual behaviour, may not even consider themselves gay.
This strange irony can be seen in the West aswell, in prisons and other single sex institutions.
In a single sex environment, men that would not normally take part in homosexual acts in the real World, engage in sexual acts with other men, where one is dominant and the other submissive.
The dominant one still retains his masculinity, and if he ever gets out of prison, will most likely go back to banging women full time.
The submissive one however, has the label of "truly gay," and will never be considered masculine.
All in all, there is a major difference here between sexual behaviour, and sexual orientation.
Sexual behaviour does not define sexual orientation, and sexual orientation does not define sexual behaviour.
I think that this is the sort of mentality that exists in the Arab world in regards to same sex relationships.
The Ancient World had this sort of mentality aswell.
I wrote a paper in college on Human Sexuality, so I've researched this subject before.
And ofcourse, I naturally got an 'A.'
~Alistair
Alistair - you've summed up pretty well the theories about homosexuality often put forward to explain the arab perspective. You deserved the A! This clashes with the western view which suggests that homosexuality is not a matter of choice. The exceptions you detail relating to bisexuality are good ones. It's all pretty complicated but men being able to hold hands sure provides good cover!
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Do Arab men consider them selves virgins if they are having sex with a man but have never been with a woman?
Very informative Alistair, thanks. You get an A from me.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
A number of people of a certain 'population' in Egypt and the Middle East, the ones that have NO SELF RESPECT I mean, that hide behind masks - of all sorts - regardless of right or wrong, justify their disgusting behavior with the 'smarty pants' nonsense reasonning, that frustrates the respectable human being of any nationality whatsoever. I mean by disgusting: The ones that have sexual relations with the same gender while married, and of course betraying or fooling their spouses (both genders). If made public, whether it is the gay 'awee' or the gay 'noss w noss' they both get the same TITLE. GAY.
The men that hold hands, and the women that hold hands in public were brought up by simplistic parents - mostly not educated, that told them it was ok, and not 'haram' to hold the hand of your best friend as brothers and sisters.
Some are ok some are not.
Posts: 919 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
You know you're like this dude who always dreamed of becoming president and did everything he could to become one, and when the oval office was just one foot away, he tripped on his face over the plural of potato. Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
In certain parts of the Arab world, homosexuality is hidden enough so as not to cause problems considering that Muslim and homosexuality appear to go together in certain quarters based on perception!
Alistair, You deserved the 'A' but don't pick up the soap!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Based on this statement, from Alistair: "Therefore, men that engage in or display homosexual behaviour, may not even consider themselves gay."
I was saying that, in terms of what people think of men that have sexual relations with each other, whether they are 'totally' gay or 'half' gay 'in their perception', if made public, people consider them GAY.
Posts: 919 | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by yazid904: In certain parts of the Arab world, homosexuality is hidden enough so as not to cause problems considering that Muslim and homosexuality appear to go together in certain quarters based on perception!
Alistair, You deserved the 'A' but don't pick up the soap!
ROTFL!
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
seriously? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I just thought I was a freak. ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic