pretty soon LML, this forum will be blank, but hey, at least no one here will be here to disagree with you right?
Smuckers, I know you've finished with the topic, but can i ask you (I do agree, btw, that we should set moral examples )
you said that an ex wife should not stop the father seeing his children, and that this is healthy. If the father intends to stay with a women he left the ex wife for, say he starts living with her...what would you do?
would you tell the children she is an immoral woman?
and that their father is immoral too?
please dont take any of this personally, i am genuinely interested in how, practically, you (or someone sharing your views) could deal with this.
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As you like LML, and I only reacted when you insulted every male member of my family, can't apologize for that. Put me back on ignore, if you actually think that will do anything...as you wish.
Wanderer, that is the difficult question isn't it? That is what I was trying to say earlier about this subject a few days ago, that culturally our soceity doesn't really allow for this separation. If the courts insist the father gets visitation and the other woman is there, what can you do? However, IF I had it my way I would ask that visitation be away from the other woman, perhaps at the husband's parents home or some other neutral family member. Again I know this is not always a possibility which was exactly my point about it annoying me that our cultures (British and American are similiar in this) don't allow for the responsibility to be laid at the feet of the cheater or marriage wrecker. But, I guess it is a lost cause, one I hope I never have to face one day. I hope the same for you and anyone else, of course.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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well, I think it all depends on the situation. Like someone said before: No 2 situations are alike. I had a colleague, happily married (or so she thought), 4 kids of 8,6,4 and 1. She visited her best (female) friend at hospital when she had given birth. Colleague noticed the baby looked like a copy of one of her own kids (who resembled the father). To make a long story short: her husband was the father of that kid and left his family.
She raised her 4 sons completely on her own. Now they are grown-up (in their twenties) and they NEVER want to see their dad again.
But ok, there are other cases. Lots of divorced couples choose for 'co-parenthood' which means kids spend 1 week with their mum, 1 week with their dad... Sometimes it works out just fine and kids seem to handle the situation quite well.
Personally I don't think I could ever be friends with someone who stole my husby. (maybe only in the case that I didn't love him myself anymore and the marriage was over anyway)
I especially liked the phrase of ????? : 'women can be very creative in their acts of revenge' Posts: 2932 | From: Just now and then | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Wanderer, that is the difficult question isn't it? That is what I was trying to say earlier about this subject a few days ago, that culturally our soceity doesn't really allow for this separation. If the courts insist the father gets visitation and the other woman is there, what can you do? However, IF I had it my way I would ask that visitation be away from the other woman, perhaps at the husband's parents home or some other neutral family member.
Ah, I'm sorry Smuckers, I must have misunderstood your earlier post - I had thought you felt the kids should have no contact with the father, not just the 'other woman'. Now that point of view makes sense to me. Its not how my life has been, and I wouldn't change it, but I can fully understand the point of view. Nor do I see it as harmful!
Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Noooo I absolutely do NOT believe in cutting off contact from the cheating parent, only the other woman. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Smuckers, I hope the same for you (that you never have to go through it, inshaallah you wont)
your response certainly is a good one, at least until the dust settles, because understandably there are hurt emotions flying about, so its more sensible to keep the other woman out of the picture. Like you said though, most of the time, the courts wouldn't agree to this long term. But I agree, at least for a year so then people may have distanced themselves a little - hopefully anyway
what is a shame is that people dont leave the relationships BEFORE they want to be with someone else, it is very weak and selfish to stay just because you dont want to be alone, because if people did that it would avoid ALL these issues!
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: Smuckers, I hope the same for you (that you never have to go through it, inshaallah you wont)
your response certainly is a good one, at least until the dust settles, because understandably there are hurt emotions flying about, so its more sensible to keep the other woman out of the picture. Like you said though, most of the time, the courts wouldn't agree to this long term. But I agree, at least for a year so then people may have distanced themselves a little - hopefully anyway
what is a shame is that people dont leave the relationships BEFORE they want to be with someone else, it is very weak and selfish to stay just because you dont want to be alone, because if people did that it would avoid ALL these issues!
Yes, you are right, I do try to understand why people do things (including cheating men) rather than judging everything from my own experiences and perspectives.
Although I do feel that you might want to check your use and the definition of the word 'relate' since I am not a cheating man.
I'm not quite sure of your relevance regarding being on the forum since 2001, since I was referring to your repeated use of the 'i'm putting you on my ignore list' statement and pretty soon there will be no one left to put on your 'ignore list'.
And please feel free to inject a little humour into your value judgements so that I too may find them funny Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: There are consequences for cheating and one of these are: when you cheat you lose your children.
In all honesty, the above sentence sounds like an attempt to legitimize revenge. I assume because of your other posts that you are a religious Moslem, therefore I will address this issue from a religious point of view.
First, let me concede that cheating is extremely hurtful. Even without cheating, if your spouse leaves you for another marriage it is very hurtful. Let me also concede that it is difficult to accept that someone who has been terrible to you can be good to your child.
However, a child-parent relationship is unalienable in Islam. Even if the parent is moshrek (associating idols with God). Even if the parent persistently tries to make the child moshrek. Still, the child is required to maintain a relationship with that parent.
My best wishes.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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The topic at hand: Why do we blame the other woman when the man strays?
IMO, we blame the other woman because now it has become a competition and we want the man to choose us. Of course this isn't always the case - every situation is different. But in my past experience, if I really sit here and think about why I blamed her instead of him, the only reason I can come up with is because I thought she was better than me - prettier, thinner, nicer, better personality, etc...
And when I sunk so low as to think of myself as worthless, unattractive, fat and useless, I also thought that no one else would want me - ever. So I had to fight for him and blame her. She came along with her good looks and took him away from me. He just couldn't help it. (For the record: I don't feel this way now - that was then.)
It couldn't have ever been that I never really loved him in the first place or that he didn't live up to my expectations; or the fact that we were fighting every day for nearly 2 months before his infidelity.
The relationship was over long before he stepped out on me. I just didn't want to see it. That's another thing: we don't want to see the bad in the people we love...or at least think we love.
I haven't been with a cheater since him (8 years ago); but I hope that if my husband ever cheats, that I will have the courage to just walk away from him. And if we should have children, well...that's another bridge to cross.
All I do know about keeping your child away from the estranged parent is that it can be extremely damaging to the child.
-------------------- "It's very important to learn how to weasel out of things. It's what separates us from the animals...except the weasel." ~Homer J. Simpson Posts: 422 | From: American living in Maadi, visiting in the States for awhile | Registered: Jul 2006
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I blame her because she knew my husband was married. Sure he's to blame as well but I would never flirt with a married man by going over to his shop in the wee hours of the morning. There were some nights when my babies who are less than a year apart would have a stomach bug and I'd be up all night long tending to one and then the other and then myself as well since I'd catch it too. All the while when that was happening he'd be in his shop doing God knows what with her. She knew I had two babies and she knew that he should have been at home with me helping out but she did not care.
I also want to add though that resentment can build and build and ruin your whole life if you let it. He will pay his dues when he has to answer to God. That thought is good enough for me. I actually feel sorry for him for what he will have to endure...all the torment, etc. of the hellfire, but I cannot change him. You cannot make someone sorry for what they did. They have to feel it themselves, but using the children as bait to do that is wrong in my opinion.
They have been married for 9 years now so this isn't going away either since they're very happy and content. I've since made my peace with the situation and although I'm not "friends" with her, I do tolerate the fact that she goes to all of the parent/teacher meetings and volunteers at the school and does most of the pick-up/drop offs. That took some time but it makes for a much more normal life for the kids. May of their teachers have commented that they would have never known they came from a divorced family since they're both very stable and well-adjusted. I love it when I hear that.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by lovingmylife: Now, you may continue with your comments, I put you back to ignore. You are invisible and don't deserve my attention from this point on.
Did the voices tell you this?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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doodlebug, For what it's worth, I think you are honorable to put the needs and concerns of your children before the desire for revenge.
quote:Some men are just weak in the trouser department, that doesnt mean they are bad people, usually they are not even thinking about what they will lose.
Sorry, I don't buy this. They can control themselves just as surly as we can. I also think as someone pointed out earlier that most of the time something is wrong in the marriage for a spouse to cheat.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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I agree with Of_gold, temptation exists for men and women alike, but for a man to cheat there have to be some particular things going on first: FIRST he has to have a low character. Sorry, that's just my opinion, a cheater has a bad moral compass and it is a direct reflection of his character... SECOND, something has to be wrong with his marriage that he isn't willing to try to work on or isn't willing to stick it out. I know it takes two to tango but turning to a different person to try to fix your own marriage or spice it up is stupid IMO. THIRD, opportunity opportunity opportunity
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Whatever the reasons, in conclusion cheaters are dishonest.
And those who contribute to the cheating process have no ethics either, and justify their actions with all sorts of nonsense.
Accepting to have a relationship with married people, show the weak and desperate character of such individuals.
Some people are never satisfied and seek cheap thrills, others like the convenience of the marriage and the affair!
All cheaters are to blame. They were not listening when as kids they were told that cheating is lying and lying is deceiving and betraying etc.. Posts: 919 | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Sorry, I don't buy this. They can control themselves just as surly as we can. I also think as someone pointed out earlier that most of the time something is wrong in the marriage for a spouse to cheat.
I agree with Of_Gold. Something is clearly wrong if a man is prepared to risk all he has emotionally invested in, so readily.
Personally, I would always blame the man. Even if Jessica Alba stripped naked and begged for my husband's attention , he should bear the blame. He is the one with a commitment to me. Of course, if Brad Pitt were to try and tempt me ...Brad would be entirely to blame. I always suspected he was a bit of a slut. Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Blondes aren't usually my type either, Smucks...but one must always try to be open-minded. I checked Billy's pic out twice , just to understand your point of view. Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: Whatever the reasons, in conclusion cheaters are dishonest.
And those who contribute to the cheating process have no ethics either, and justify their actions with all sorts of nonsense.
Accepting to have a relationship with married people, show the weak and desperate character of such individuals.
Some people are never satisfied and seek cheap thrills, others like the convenience of the marriage and the affair!
All cheaters are to blame. They were not listening when as kids they were told that cheating is lying and lying is deceiving and betraying etc..
Wait a minute...I don't condone cheating but in no way do I think that if someone cheats they have no ethics or are immoral people.
Sometimes good people do bad things, and sometimes bad people do good things. Each case is individual and no one can judge the heart but God. We all have sinned.
I really think it is just as wrong for a spouse to withhold sex from the other. My cousin has joked that with his x he had paycheck sex. He said that he would throw the paycheck on the bed and when she bent over to get it.... He eventually divorced her. He told me he didn't get married to be celibate.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Blondes aren't usually my type either, Smucks...but one must always try to be open-minded. I checked Billy's pic out twice , just to understand your point of view.
Ohhh I totally understand opening it twice, for a really good opinion. I opened it twice x 5 JUST TO BE SAFE....
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I think the woman should be blamed also, however the blunt of the anger should be directed at the man who promised to LOVE, HONOR, AND CHERISH. I have said in another posting that men become slimeballs, cheaters, weak poor specimens of manhood because woman train men's behavior.There should be a sisterhood among women, a strength among us all as women to stand up against this behavior. If a man is married, you dont screw around with him or "date" him, bottom line.Women should say NO TO MARRIED MEN! If he really doesnt want to be married anymore than this will at least force him to have the balls enough to just say" this isnt working anymore-I want a divorce",if he really wants to be with her. Most of the time though men lie and say they are not happy, send out a huge sob story just to get a little strange and these stupid women fall for it
Doodlebug, you were really classy about the whole thing. He will get his and she will get hers, I dont care if they are blissfully happy or not. Karma is a bitch, once a cheat always a cheat. True story, my Aunt's husband of 13 yrs cheated on her with a lady he worked with. He divorced my aunt to marry her. My cousins were still small also. They were married 9 yrs and then she turned around, cheated on him and left him for a younger man!!So, what comes around goes around, sometimes it just takes awhile Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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He looks a bit like Keanu Reeves (at least in the pic with the glass of water) or am I wrong?
Posts: 2932 | From: Just now and then | Registered: Nov 2006
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He looks a bit like Keanu Reeves (at least in the pic with the glass of water) or am I wrong?
All I know is he should be forced to wear a burka....It is his fault for giving me these impure thoughts.......Shame on him.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Shame on him indeed. These men should stop flaunting themselves. Thanks to the women here for drawing my attention to this scandal . Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Ohhh yes, for artistic purposes, I'll get the movie tomorrow, ohhh what's the name of this artistic movie? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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yes, we have to watch UNFAITHFUL to be able to give advice, right?? I will say to my husband; need to do some research honey for ES-purposes... Posts: 2932 | From: Just now and then | Registered: Nov 2006
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So it's like a book club but it's a movie club? Ok ladies, so we all rent/buy/download UNFAITHFUL, watch it and we'll discuss it ... when? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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My other half told me about this movie(unfaithful). He went on about it and then I finally saw it, it is very good. For the record Johnny Depp is mine!
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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