Leito Member Member # 14189 Rate Member posted 22 October, 2007 12:30 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My mom called me just yesterday. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 235 | From: Wherever bewbies are! | Registered: Sep 2007 | IP: Logged |
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I found closure to my dreams. The member I was dreaming about was Dalia – I didn’t know why I dreamt of her only until recently. Yes she was the woman in my dreams but the actual woman she represented is very much in my real life now. It initially escaped me but now I am 99% certain of this. It can not simply be coincidence. Dalia is German and so is this woman – I’ll detail some of the similarities.
[Dalia] The first dream I had of Dalia was the bonfire dream and I neglected to mention what she was saying because it would have made it obvious. Dalia was critically talking about ahadith interpretation to a small audience including me who sat around the bonfire.
[German woman] I met the German woman at an event sponsored by the Goethe institute and this occurred after all my dreams. She walked up to me during a break and got so close that I practically rolled my toes to keep balance. Seriously her face was so close to my face that I literally felt and smelled her warm breath. It wasn’t sweet and it certainly wasn’t foul – it was regular healthy smelling human breath. We talked a little about the event and then our conversation shifted and she let it be known that she spoke Arabic – not fluently but pretty good. I believe Dalia is also good in Arabic language. Then bingo – turns out she studied some Islamic Studies and she too went on to criticize adhadith interpretations to which I added I see you read a lot of goldziger’s works. She easily dismissed him, to my surprise because I also believe his lack of objectivity hindered his credibility. I don’t know Dalia personally but one would believe that she is an unpretentious person and this lady was the same. She practically had on no make up and man was she confident. I mean her face was so close to my face, I was thinking ‘whoaaa this chick is like so close to me”. She probably counted the few silver hairs I have on the right side of my goatee because she mentioned she was young when I asked about her taking a year off from college.
Whilst talking a friend of hers interrupts our conversation and I excused myself and went back upstairs to the event. While there I received a text message from my friends telling me to hurry up and I simply left without seeing the German woman. About a week later I ran into the woman again, we talked and this time we exchanged phone numbers. At that point I still failed to see the similarities between the woman in my dreams (represented by Dalia) and her.
I made the connection last night, we were supposed to hang out tonight and who knows maybe it could have been similar to dream #2 but I cancelled a short while ago. I know I will see her again but at least now – I am in a position of knowing. I hope Dalia is not annoyed with this as I mean no disrespect at all.
It’s probably just coincidence.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Don’t worry leeta I won’t perturb you by discussing this again on ES. I’ll save such for my weblog
I would like to advise you against reading my weekend thread on EM because you might either:
1- Combust from envy 2- Further diminish your self worth
Upon reading and seeing pics of my partying in some of KL’s hottest clubs with Asian beauties including a gorgeous model at a Nokia after fashion show party.
Disclaimer: if i continue this on my blog, i will neither mention nor allude to you at all Dalia. For me there is closure in this regard. I'll try to find a pic of a woman that was in my dreams and see if she looked anything like you.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Don’t worry leeta I won’t perturb you by discussing this again on ES. I’ll save such for my weblog
I would like to advise you against reading my weekend thread on EM because you might either:
1- Combust from envy 2- Further diminish your self worth
Upon reading and seeing pics of my partying in some of KL’s hottest clubs with Asian beauties including a gorgeous model at a Nokia after fashion show party.
Disclaimer: if i continue this on my blog, i will neither mention nor allude to you at all Dalia. For me there is closure in this regard. I'll try to find a pic of a woman that was in my dreams and see if she looked anything like you.
RUN DALIA RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 3 | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Exiled: save such for my weblog
I feel special .
quote:1- Combust from envy 2- Further diminish your self worth
Combust ? Further diminish ? What kind of English is that ?
quote: Upon reading and seeing pics of my partying in some of KL’s hottest clubs with Asian beauties including a gorgeous model at a Nokia after fashion show party.
XD Asians have small boobs .
You found a job as a waiter at last ?
Posts: 6335 | From: Straight to my heart. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Yeah I think I am in love with Dalia *blush* because the probability of the dream lady that I thought Dalia represented plummeted today. It’s stupid to call a woman in the morning but I did that after class and asked her if she would like to meet up for some coffee. She said she was busy and I asked her okay maybe tomorrow and she replied that she is very busy working on ‘documentation’. Her tone was pretty much cold and alienated me, I swear I don’t understand some women sometimes – I was practically inhaling her breath a couple of weeks ago and now she can’t even meet for coffee. Serves me right – but it’s okay – you know the Islamic brothers & sisters would be like – you letting the devil play with your mind – no good comes out sitting down one on one with the opposite sex.
It’s a Sunday – it’s almost noon now and in about 7 hours I will be busy with my fantasy sports team s– watching them on satellite, online and keeping track of the scores. The day is like almost gone already and I wanted to chill in a cafe and just talk.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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I really don't understand this rule about sitting down one on one with the opposite sex. How can you develop any meaningful relationship unless you sit down one on one?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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^^It’s supported by a hadith that states whenever a man and woman are alone then the devil is their companion. This basically means that when they are alone one thing might lead to another. Some might even argue that: but if we are in a public area with other patrons then this hadith doesn’t qualify. Others might then counter well technically you are not even allowed to touch her hand and the discussion could go on and go and back and forth.
I am lost in all of this and I know very well the ahadith yet I simply want to live a normal life that I am accustomed too. Maybe this holds true for the mentality in the middle east and maybe men and women should be segregated because after all they have been raised to think that mixing is a great taboo. I am not advocating any position - i am talking about me.
It’s running water day here – wifey is doing the laundry – my mistresses ahahahaha … I mean my friends have no time for me and I just need to go out and walk and walk – listen to some mp3s and maybe take some pics. I would be happier if i were taking a taxi and meeting up a female friend of mine and you know what i would have returned the same way insha allah as i will return home after my walk and that's with my fidelity.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Actually this makes sense to me if you are married. If you are single it is a different circumstance I think.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Actually this makes sense to me if you are married. If you are single it is a different circumstance I think.
About the only thing differentiating singles (that are of age) and married persons in all of Islam are the huduud sharia laws pertaining to fornication and adultery. Oh and also attire for older women is differentiated from a single/married younger woman. Other than that there is practically no difference in any issue between a married person and an adult single person.
And I agree it does make sense but appropriately for all of us both married and single.
I have a question are we judged by who we sit with or are we judged by fornicating/ committing adultery?
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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???? I have difficulties here understanding the following; when a man and a woman are alone, the devil is their companion??
I can think of 100 cases where a man and a woman are alone... like at work, working on a project together, talking in private to your boss, meeting with a friend, talking to a father of your kids' friends ,talking to a sportsinstructor, talking to a guy in a shop, etc.
And heyyy Exiled; why didn't you help doing the laundry?? Posts: 2932 | From: Just now and then | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by desertgirl: ???? I have difficulties here understanding the following; when a man and a woman are alone, the devil is their companion??
I can think of 100 cases where a man and a woman are alone... like at work, working on a project together, talking in private to your boss, meeting with a friend, talking to a father of your kids' friends ,talking to a sportsinstructor, talking to a guy in a shop, etc.
And heyyy Exiled; why didn't you help doing the laundry??
I rarely help with the laundry anymore because we do laundry on Saturdays and Sundays as we have running water from the city on those two days – we used to have Wednesdays too but it only lasted during summer or when some big shot living downstairs moved. I mean serious Mr.Bigshot moved and our water became 2x a week running and not 3x.
Anyway I cook on Saturdays something real nice about 2-3 hours worth. She does the laundry. I have class on Sunday and this is my chilling day – she lets me slide. I took her out Friday Gloria jeans café + mall + restaurant + bookstore = I mean come on if I have to do laundry after doing all that then I am doing something wrong. It’s her waching machine – remember she asked her family for the money behind my back. It’s hers let her do the laundry – I could be smelly all week for all I care lol
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by desertgirl: ???? I have difficulties here understanding the following; when a man and a woman are alone, the devil is their companion??
I can think of 100 cases where a man and a woman are alone... like at work, working on a project together, talking in private to your boss, meeting with a friend, talking to a father of your kids' friends ,talking to a sportsinstructor, talking to a guy in a shop, etc.
And heyyy Exiled; why didn't you help doing the laundry??
Because there is no premarital sex allowed, people want to avoid situations where that should be possible. A woman never can be alone with a man that isn't her husband.(Even not a kitchen-mechanic:))So, when I am in Egypt, being alone with a man is not allowed, and when people should discover I do, they shall gossip about it, or inform the family. Thats why a mechanic, a gardener, or whatever kind of men who has to work in the house, takes somebody with him ( a son, a little helper) and the wife of the house also shall keep people around. Of course this attitude will raise tempting on male behaviour, and if he actually should be alone with a woman, he wouldn't feel comfortable or he shall try to forfill his desires. Its like giving a child a box of candy and tell 'm he is not allowed to take from it. Its takes a lot of selfdiscipline to leave the hands out of it!
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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The difference between being married and single, in my view is that when you are single you hope to find someone to share your life with. How can you know someone without spending time with them?
I do think that most men, no matter how married or religious they are will go with the flow if a woman comes on to them. Married men are worse than single men. I have married male friends that I know all I would have to do is say OK. That is why woman should take care of their husbands because not all woman think like me. I can't even say that I am not capable of this, all I can say is that I feel married men are not on the market, my standards are high, and so far I have been true to this.
I am alone with men all the time and I can assure you that I am not having sex with them.
You talk like if a man and a woman are along they will loose all self control and self respect.
I am single and it is no big deal here so if I wanted to I could but I don't. Not because I am forced not to but because I choose not too. Me choosing not to is a result of my own morals and not some imposed morality. If it is forced on a person, then it is the same as a criminal in prison. They are not good in their heart but are being good because they have no choice.
Not that I think premarital sex is bad. If two single adults what to have sex that is their choice, not the whole communities.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: The difference between being married and single, in my view is that when you are single you hope to find someone to share your life with. How can you know someone without spending time with them?
I do think that most men, no matter how married or religious they are will go with the flow if a woman comes on to them. Married men are worse than single men. I have married male friends that I know all I would have to do is say OK. That is why woman should take care of their husbands because not all woman think like me. I can't even say that I am not capable of this, all I can say is that I feel married men are not on the market, my standards are high, and so far I have been true to this.
I am alone with men all the time and I can assure you that I am not having sex with them.
You talk like if a man and a woman are along they will loose all self control and self respect.
I am single and it is no big deal here so if I wanted to I could but I don't. Not because I am forced not to but because I choose not too. Me choosing not to is a result of my own morals and not some imposed morality. If it is forced on a person, then it is the same as a criminal in prison. They are not good in their heart but are being good because they have no choice.
Not that I think premarital sex is bad. If two single adults what to have sex that is their choice, not the whole communities.
quote:The difference between being married and single, in my view is that when you are single you hope to find someone to share your life with. How can you know someone without spending time with them?
Islam as a whole disagrees with your opinion and you are confusing me because do you want it your way or the way it is. Singles find means to facilitate their relationships in other words they work around religion. Others though and I am talking about possibly the majority very well rely on a ‘network’ that has worked for them for centuries. It is similar to a date but not a date and it could start with a photograph of a man/woman and so on. This is supervised and most marriages in this form in the muslim world are the most successful. It is one where the man – woman – inlaws are in full compliance and such doesn’t happen over a coffe table between two lovers. The woman in this regard is safeguarded and some might contend but this is the fact. The moment that families know of a relationship they moment the respect of the woman increases.
quote: I do think that most men, no matter how married or religious they are will go with the flow if a woman comes on to them. Married men are worse than single men. I have married male friends that I know all I would have to do is say OK. That is why woman should take care of their husbands because not all woman think like me. I can't even say that I am not capable of this, all I can say is that I feel married men are not on the market, my standards are high, and so far I have been true to this.
You said this
quote: I am alone with men all the time and I can assure you that I am not having sex with them.
Then you added this - so you possess the power to ward off married men - other women might fail and assuredly married men will make advances.
quote: You talk like if a man and a woman are along they will loose all self control and self respect.
No, i did not say that. I stated the hadith that basically stated that.
quote: I am single and it is no big deal here so if I wanted to I could but I don't. Not because I am forced not to but because I choose not too. Me choosing not to is a result of my own morals and not some imposed morality. If it is forced on a person, then it is the same as a criminal in prison. They are not good in their heart but are being good because they have no choice.
Not that I think premarital sex is bad. If two single adults what to have sex that is their choice, not the whole communities.
posted
I don't posses the power. I posses respect of myself. I posse the strong conviction of what I want out of life and what I want out of an intimate relationship. Most men will not force themselves on you.
Yes, married men will make advances. True. That is why wives need to make sure they keep their men satisfied. This is one thing I have learned from being single.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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I dont think its just about what the man or women might do while they are out having coffee, but WHY would they need to be out having coffee with another man/woman when they are married, and how would the husband/wife feel who is sitting at home?
I would feel like my husband couldnt talk to me if he was out having coffee with another woman Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: I dont think its just about what the man or women might do while they are out having coffee, but WHY would they need to be out having coffee with another man/woman when they are married, and how would the husband/wife feel who is sitting at home?
I would feel like my husband couldnt talk to me if he was out having coffee with another woman
Thats quite a personal choice though - my two best friends are a married couple, and myself and the man would think nothing of going for a night out together - with the wife's knowledge, and there would be no problem at all. Its happened loads of times. We would go shopping together or out for a coffee, or a night round town. Often the wife would be there, but if she had plans, we would go alone!
And they are one of the happiest couples I know Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: I dont think its just about what the man or women might do while they are out having coffee, but WHY would they need to be out having coffee with another man/woman when they are married, and how would the husband/wife feel who is sitting at home?
I would feel like my husband couldnt talk to me if he was out having coffee with another woman
Ditto that. Something is wrong here.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: I dont think its just about what the man or women might do while they are out having coffee, but WHY would they need to be out having coffee with another man/woman when they are married, and how would the husband/wife feel who is sitting at home?
I would feel like my husband couldnt talk to me if he was out having coffee with another woman
Thats quite a personal choice though - my two best friends are a married couple, and myself and the man would think nothing of going for a night out together - with the wife's knowledge, and there would be no problem at all. Its happened loads of times. We would go shopping together or out for a coffee, or a night round town. Often the wife would be there, but if she had plans, we would go alone!
And they are one of the happiest couples I know
Keep in mind soozi that some women and especially housewives with children will tend to be overly protective and are probably more insecure. It is 100% natural because they identify and address any situation by their perception of life whether it’s negative or positive.
I don’t ascribe to such insecurities. My point was very simple because people love to get all Islamic hence I love to silence them with Islam itself. The prophet (saw) mentioned what I previously stated regarding mixed sexes … now was that an order (umr), nasiheh (advice) or was it a fact. Allah decreed that illegitimate sex is forbidden. Now we all know it will take a whole lot of treachery to actually reach that point from a coffee table at your local café.
So from an Islamic point they need to reevaluate the situation because law transcends insecurities. Now from a personal point then people are entitled to say whatever. Again it is personal and really when people state such they are more or less speaking of themselves and which is perfectly fine.
This is why i can't debate with some people. They influx so much personal baggage in debates that it defeats the purpose of a rational debate. I am trying to show leniency in Islam here and people want to impose the most stringent ahadith in addition to their grievances.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Don't get me wrong - I don't think that every situation is ok.
I, myself wouldn't feel comfortable being out and about with a married man, if I didn't know the wife, and get along very well with her. I can understand how women can be made to feel insecure with the situation I described above, its just that not all occasions are bad. In my life, with my friends it works well, and the wife trusts both of us complicitly (rightly so), in a different circumstance this may not be the case.
My response was more in reply to the comment about the husband not being able to talk to the wife, if he's out with a female friend. I just don't see that as 100% true.
Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Dunes, you are looking for justification on going out and meeting up with other women and not your wife and you are living in denial.
How would you feel if if your wife leaves the house to meet a man in a cafe for 'just a little chat' and the next day again? She rings up men while you are doing the laundry and while you look forward to go out on Thursday night with your wife she's telling you she has other things in mind, she puts on her boots and hits the town herself.
Hmmmm IMO you want the best of both worlds but you most likely will not get it unless you hurt the most important person in your life. Think about it. I feel pity for your best half and I hope she finds the strength to further accept your ways.
Oh and this statement comes from a housewife with children. And yes I appreciate what I have. Do you???
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Dunes, you are looking for justification on going out and meeting up with other women and not your wife and you are living in denial.
How would you feel if if your wife leaves the house to meet a man in a cafe for 'just a little chat' and the next day again? She rings up men while you are doing the laundry and while you look forward to go out on Thursday night with your wife she's telling you she has other things in mind, she puts on her boots and hits the town herself.
Hmmmm IMO you want the best of both worlds but you most likely will not get it unless you hurt the most important person in your life. Think about it. I feel pity for your best half and I hope she finds the strength to further accept your ways.
Oh and this statement comes from a housewife with children. And yes I appreciate what I have. Do you???
You are asking me to answer in a personal sense and really what i say is irrelevant because we are debating laws and not our own fancies in matters. I will oblige though but I really do not want to go there and I see your question is one that is often repeated. Which is : How would you feel if if your wife leaves the house to meet a man in a cafe for 'just a little chat' and the next day again?
The answer dear lilly is I did not marry a woman who would do that. I did not spend several years of my life in cairo searching for a Muslim woman to do that. Also keep in mind that to most Egyptian women this would be something that is unnatural and not normal and not just Egyptian women but Muslim women in general. A few weeks ago I had to pick up something from my wife’s friend house and her husband was out of town. The muslim woman (convert) informed my wife that she would leave the bag for me outside on a table on a porch. That is how some Muslim woman are. I didn’t knock – didn’t do anything at all – simply got the bag from the table and went back inside the taxi.
See we are talking apples and oranges. I on the otherhand have always had female friends and have always knew that it is no big deal to have female friends. Maybe you guys are under the impression that these friends are jumping all over me. That is not the case – they have their own lives.
Oh and this statement comes from a housewife with children. And yes I appreciate what I have. Do you???
Please can we stop being so personal in such topics.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Think it's a decision that only can be made by the ones who are involved. If I go out with a married man, and my husband has no objections, and his wife has no objections, because they know it is innocent, nobody is allowed to have objections.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Look, what you are saying is right. Having coffee and friends is no big deal. A lot has to be said about the strength of the relationship though. If you are secure that your spouse loves you and doesn't want another then you wont have the jealousy that one might have other wise.
Treachery starts in the mind. So the first priority should be to the spouse and keeping that relationship strong. If that is weak then it is no small leap from the mind to a hug to the bed.
Why did you search for a woman that would not have coffee with a man?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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"...The answer dear lilly is I did not marry a woman who would do that. I did not spend several years of my life in cairo searching for a Muslim woman to do that..."
Wow, two thumbs up for you that you married someone like THAT, someone who accepts that you DO THAT. Lucky you.... Ain't marriage grande? Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Honestly I can't understand how people get all upset over a cup of coffee yet accept polygamy.
No offense meant Tigerlily, I'm not referring to you. I don't know your view on the subject. I am referring to an earlier thread where woman were defending polygamy. Threads tend to overlap in my mind.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Dunes wrote:
"...The answer dear lilly is I did not marry a woman who would do that. I did not spend several years of my life in cairo searching for a Muslim woman to do that..."
Wow, two thumbs up for you that you married someone like THAT, someone who accepts that you DO THAT. Lucky you.... Ain't marriage grande?
What's wrong with you today? Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Treachery starts in the mind. So the first priority should be to the spouse and keeping that relationship strong. If that is weak then it is no small leap from the mind to a hug to the bed.
That is soooo true, and I believe all important for all aspects of relationships. You are right, as long as the relationship is strong, and happy, then all other things in life fall into place! Well put! Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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I don't think you answered her question Exiled.
She didn't ask about who you married, she asked how would you feel.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: I don't think you answered her question Exiled.
She didn't as about who you married, she asked how would you feel.
I am going to step back from this thread for a little bit. I feel a little uneasiness here a little tension in the air. Once you ladies calm down - i'll come back.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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.....I think you have sufficiently answered her question.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Exiled: ]What's wrong with you today?
What's wrong with ME you mean? You should rather take a good look at yourself. You are the one who's posting here about your dreams of another woman. Previously you already declared yourself as a 'big flirt' and you mentioned not only more than once that you like to hang out with other women besides your wife.
Seriously this talk doesn't come over very good and makes you looking kind of sleazy. Seriously what does meeting up with other women give you? A boost of self-esteem?
Dunes, face it, you are off the market. Leave meeting up with women for other and most of all SINGLE guys!
Hey be honest to your wife and show her your postings here on ES. I am sure she would be more than disappointed and wonder what she did wrong. The sad fact here only is that she doesn't do anything wrong....
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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No, it is exciting, makes you feel good, and it takes away a bit of the predictable life. But, at the same it is dangerous.Because, as soon as feeling arise and become stronger, people are balancing on the edge of a line. And then it is a very small step to cross that line when circumstances are there; not feeling satisfaction enough in the own relationship, just had a fight, feeling sad about something, uncomfortable feelings, or just the feeling like : Is this all there is? Do I have to go on like this for the next fifty years? It is a matter of making decisions with yourself!
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Wanderer: I dont think its just about what the man or women might do while they are out having coffee, but WHY would they need to be out having coffee with another man/woman when they are married, and how would the husband/wife feel who is sitting at home?
I would feel like my husband couldnt talk to me if he was out having coffee with another woman
I don't see the problem. There is some assumption that all men and women will automatically fancy each other and want to jump on each other - not true. Most people DONT fancy most other people.
Also, what if your husband/wife has an interest that the other simply does not share - quite possible because, say, I love death metal music and I had a husband who hated it - maybe I have a friend - who happens to be male - who does like it, I would see no problem, and would expect my husband if he existed to have no problem, with me accompanying the friend to a gig (and vice versa if he had a female friend). Its music not sex. I wouldn't expect either party to give up that interest. A long time ago, I had a close male friend who was married, we used to go to gigs together all the time because his wife hated the music as did most of my friends. I used to phone him at home and talk to him about arrangements etc, she had no problem with it. Out of respect for her, I made sure I only phoned him early evening - never after 930pm at night because its those late night phone calls that cause most concern. If she answered and asked who was calling, I always told her.
Either you trust your partner or you don't. If you don't trust your partner why are you married to them?
As for 'sitting at home' why don't you have your own interests that you do - obviously if there are kids you need to take turns in going out to make sure they are looked after, but when you are at home together do you spend the whole time sitting looking at each other? No, you will be 'doing your thang' so do it when the other one is out.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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Oldbag, you are getting ready to live in a totally different culture. The way how things are possible in the West - like having a good best male friend in this matter and the boyfriend/husband won't mind - does not exist in Egypt. And even in Western countries it's a difficult issue and it totally depends on the individual couple.
I formed my first relationships with men in Egypt and I guess these three years there influenced my early adulthood immense. Still then I would think it's a matter of respect you owe to your own partner not to intentionally try to make contact with the other gender (like Dunes does).
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I think this is exactly the way exta marital affairs start. It can be in the workplace where the comminality of work or challenges of projects draws people together or a common interest not shared by a spouse such as described by Old bag. If things in the marriage are getting stale or there are problems then it will be easy to be drawn to a member of the opposite sex that you find you do share things in common with. I used to see it many a time in the sailing world where being in close quarters with members of the opposite sex and a shared interest lead to all sort of goings on. Personally I was far happier sailing as part of an all women crew and keep away from fragile male egos. So I would argue its always possible to find members of your own sex to do things with no matter what your interest and it's usually far more enjoyable. Alternatively you can be part of a mixed group if that fits your interest better. I certainly would not accept for my partner to act in this way.
As for Exiled he wants his cake and eat it and on top of that thinks its OK to quote hadith at us, which while I agree and accept this hadith, he does not. I think thats being very hypocritical.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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Tigerlilly - i'm sorry i went and left you, I just had to run off and stare into my husbands eyes, being as i'm such a lonely insecure housewife like you
ok - Exiled - Firstly, when it comes to my husband i am not insecure, we all have insecurities but he isn't one of them. Secondly, i am in my mid thirties and can assure you that i spent a long time as a single woman, and only a tiny percentage of the time as a 'housewife'. Thirdly, guess what, us girls can do it too, trust me, most men DO just need the go ahead, as a woman i wouldn't put myself in that position, not because i am insecure or have nothing better to do with my life apart from gaze into my husbands eyes, but for respect, for myself, for him and for any other 'absent' women involved. Fourthly - If i have a desperate urge to communicate with a male 'other' on a one to one personal level, then something is missing for me in my relationship, like soozi said, it works for her and the couple she knows, it wouldnt work for me, i KNOW how men talk about women when they are not around!
Finally, you didnt answer tigerlillys question because you know, we know, the answer, the answer lies in the fact that you searched for a woman who wouldnt do that - insecurities lie in whether we trust ourselves remember.
Hadith or no hadith, people talk about personal because hadith IS personal, Islam is personal, it does not exist in isolation of real life, real situations, so it is not a separate issue.
Posts: 644 | Registered: Jul 2007
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I appreciate Egypt is a different culture and this is an area I would have to negotiate carefully and have been putting some thought into.
But talking generally, I know it is perfectly possible for men and women to be friends without any sexual goings on. Of course, also there are instances when things change - but is this the fault of the shared interest or a marriage that needs working on? Is a marriage simply a list of shared interests or something deeper - I think its something deeper, and couples who have little apparent interests in common can have deeply shared values and common goals that can draw them much more closer than whether they like the same ticksheet of films or whathaveyou.
It is sometimes very difficult to find people of the same sex that share your interests - sorry to say most girls have zero interest in death/doom metal music, science fiction books, action films, science esp. physics, trains, computers type stuff. Those are my main interests so either I get bloke mates or I have a very lonely life doing everything on my own. I'm always happy to meet women who share my tastes in things but they are rare.
About the only 'girl' thing about me is I hate football - yet this is one thing loads of women pretend to like these days for some reason that passes me by entirely.
Ok, I agree that if you are deliberately setting out to meet friends of the opposite sex when you are in a relationship/married that there is probably something you should be thinking about, but if it happens naturally from shared interests, then so be it.
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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It seems that people are putting words in my mouth now and I’d rather go out and search for a turkey instead. Some of you make a lot of sense and I agree with what you say. Some however have this ironclad mentality that in my honest opinion is not only close minded but also very stigmatic. Oldbag made a good point when she said we just don’t simply stay home talking and staring at our partner all day and night. This is so true – I don’t have a career or a job and when I come home – I chill and relax but i also need friends in my life. The female friends I met here initially were the ones who invited me to parties and I love parties and drinking from time to time. My wife doesn’t go to such places and she knows I have female friends who invite me to such. Her only concern is ‘I don’t want you to have friends that send you home like that’ e.g. coming home drunk.
My mobile phone is on all the time and she can check the numbers in it – call any number on it – check the history etc. Do you guys know how the hang out scene is in Jordan – it is a couples/group only policy in most establishments! I enjoy that scene and it is fun, nothing more and nothing else.
People are so negative here. Now with the infamous question that people think I ignored one that I thought I answered but people here will never be satisfied. I told you once and now I am telling you twice I married a muslim woman. If I had a western wife who has male friends then I possibly might accept it. With muslim women it is seen as an abnormality to be around the opposite sex – different world and different mentality. And I loved her for her beauty but married her for the whole package = remember the prophet (saw) said do not simply marry them for their looks, marry them for their faith. What kind of marriage would we have if both of us had same mindset as me? All this talk about put yourself in such and such shoes – it is a good saying but it doesn’t always apply. Stop being so cynical and spiteful because people are different- accept that and because you live a certain life doesn’t mean yours is right and others are wrong. We don’t know what is in people’s hearts! No one has a monopoly on anything – you should hear how some of you talk. There are many wonderful people who have friends from the opposite sex – true and wonderful friends. My friendships are lighthearted and more or less hanging out kind of fun.
Thank god some people here are open minded because if not then goodbye to thread.
Posts: 2418 | Registered: Nov 2007
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