quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Al Khimar IS the veil Dalia
That's your interpretation.
quote: hijab means obstructor of whatever
Yes, I know. And it is used with that meaning throughout the Qur'an -- but not in reference to clothing.
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Khumoor is booze..
Trying to imagine someone wrapping booze around their cleavage.
I was referring to the word خمر (not خمور), which ist the plural of خمار. Sorry for the imprecise transcription.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Closely connected with the veil is the exclusion of women from public life, based on a verse in the Quran which refers to the wives of the Prophet’:
"When ye ask them (i.e. the wives of the Prophet) for any article, ask them from behind a curtain; that is purer for your hearts and for theirs” (Surah 33: 53, 55)
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by unfinished thought.: Closely connected with the veil is the exclusion of women from public life, based on a verse in the Quran which refers to the wives of the Prophet’:
"When ye ask them (i.e. the wives of the Prophet) for any article, ask them from behind a curtain; that is purer for your hearts and for theirs” (Surah 33: 53, 55)
thats not excluding women from public life! It refers to the prophets wives and ONLY the prophets wives and while having visitors to his home. The word hijab is used but as a screen not as a scarf or a face covering. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by unfinished thought.: Closely connected with the veil is the exclusion of women from public life, based on a verse in the Quran which refers to the wives of the Prophet’:
"When ye ask them (i.e. the wives of the Prophet) for any article, ask them from behind a curtain; that is purer for your hearts and for theirs” (Surah 33: 53, 55)
thats not excluding women from public life! It refers to the prophets wives and ONLY the prophets wives and while having visitors to his home. The word hijab is used but as a screen not as a scarf or a face covering.
And what were they covering behind that screen?
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
the parts I made bold are ADDED and this is M. Muhsin Khan translation.
And your point is
The point is that of these 16 translations only Khan decides to make the hair and the rest of a woman an issue when it is CLEAR what the verse is really about, which is not covering everything but one eye to see with! Khan has ADDED to the words of God, just like Quran warns about and it changes the Quran just like adding the hadith of Moses changed the Torah, which again you were warned about in Quran.
Literal: You, you the prophet, say to your wives and your daughters and the believers' women they (F) near (lengthen) on them from their shirts/gowns/wide dresses, that (is) nearer that (E) they (F) be known (better than being identified), so they (F) do not be harmed mildly/harmed, and God was/is forgiving, merciful.
Yusuf Ali: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Pickthal: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Arberry: O Prophet, say to thy wives and daughters and the believing women, that they draw their veils close to them; so it is likelier they will be known, and not hurt. God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.
Shakir: O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Sarwar: Prophet, tell your wives, daughters, and the wives of the believers to cover their bosoms and breasts. This will make them distinguishable from others and protect them from being annoyed. God is All-forgiving and All-merciful.
H/K/Saheeh: O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
Malik: O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, daughters and the believing women that they should draw their outer garments over their persons. That is more proper, so that they may be recognized and not bothered. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.[59]
Maulana Ali: O Prophet, tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of believers to let down upon them their over-garments. This is more proper, so that they may be known, and not be given trouble. And Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Free Minds: O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
Qaribullah: O Prophet, tell your wives, your daughters and the believing women to draw their veils close to them, so it is likelier they will be known, and not hurt. Allah is the Forgiver, the Most Merciful.
George Sale: O prophet, speak unto thy wives, and thy daughters, and the wives of the true believers, that they cast their outer garments over them when they walk abroad; this will be more proper, that they may be known to be matrons of reputation, and may not be affronted by unseemly words or actions. God is gracious and merciful.
JM Rodwell: O Prophet! speak to thy wives and to thy daughters, and to the wives of the Faithful, that they let their veils fall low. Thus will they more easily be known, and they will not be affronted. God is Indulgent, Merciful!
Asad: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters, as well as all [other] believing women, that they should draw over themselves some of their outer garments [when in public]: this will be more conducive to their being recognized [as decent women] and not annoyed. [Cf. the first two sentences of 24:31 and the corresponding notes.] But [withal,] God is indeed much- forgiving, a dispenser of grace! [The specific, time-bound formulation of the above verse (evident in the reference to the wives and daughters of the Prophet), as well as the deliberate vagueness of the recommendation that women "should draw upon themselves some of their outer garments min jalabibihinna)" when in public, makes it clear that this verse was not meant to be an injunction (hukm) in the general, timeless sense of this term but, rather, a moral guideline to be observed against the ever-changing background of time and social environment. This finding is reinforced by the concluding reference to God's forgiveness and grace.]
Khalifa: O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Hilali/Khan: O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful.
QXP Shabbir Ahemd: O Prophet! Tell your wives, your daughters, and women of the believers that they should draw their outer garments over their person (when in public (24:31)). This is easy and proper, so that they may be recognized and not bothered. Allah is Absolver of imperfections, Merciful.
I didn't read them all but the few I read also add to the "word of God". All interpretation do. "Prophet, tell your wives, daughters, and the wives of the believers to cover their bosoms and breasts." Nothing about Bosoms and breasts in the verse!
But what was the objective of the verse? What were they asked to do. Were they walking naked that they needed to be reminded to wear something? Was god instructing them to wear a special holy uniform with badge on it?
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
People came to Muhammeds house to see HIM, his wives stayed out the way. If you wanted a cuppa tea you asked from behind a screen and didnt go in the kitchen to ask!
This is regarding the prophets wives when people visited him in his home. It is saying dont come too early or too late and dont stay too long and dont annoy him and his wives.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Literal: You, you the prophet, say to your wives and your daughters and the believers' women they (F) near (lengthen) on them from their shirts/gowns/wide dresses, that (is) nearer that (E) they (F) be known (better than being identified), so they (F) do not be harmed mildly/harmed, and God was/is forgiving, merciful.
I didn't read them all but the few I read also add to the "word of God". All interpretation do. "Prophet, tell your wives, daughters, and the wives of the believers to cover their bosoms and breasts." Nothing about Bosoms and breasts in the verse!
But what was the objective of the verse? What were they asked to do. Were they walking naked that they needed to be reminded to wear something? Was god instructing them to wear a special holy uniform with badge on it?
No not in my opinion He isnt saying wear a uniform with a badge on it. They were obviously not walking around naked as they are told you use what they DO wear to cover more of their body. Lengthen thier skirts, cover themselves. It says nothing of hair. As in other verses it says private parts, hair is not a private part, bosoms are.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Literal: You, you the prophet, say to your wives and your daughters and the believers' women they (F) near (lengthen) on them from their shirts/gowns/wide dresses, that (is) nearer that (E) they (F) be known (better than being identified), so they (F) do not be harmed mildly/harmed, and God was/is forgiving, merciful.
I didn't read them all but the few I read also add to the "word of God". All interpretation do. "Prophet, tell your wives, daughters, and the wives of the believers to cover their bosoms and breasts." Nothing about Bosoms and breasts in the verse!
But what was the objective of the verse? What were they asked to do. Were they walking naked that they needed to be reminded to wear something? Was god instructing them to wear a special holy uniform with badge on it?
No not in my opinion He isnt saying wear a uniform with a badge on it. They were obviously not walking around naked as they are told you use what they DO wear to cover more of their body. Lengthen thier skirts, cover themselves. It says nothing of hair. As in other verses it says private parts, hair is not a private part, bosoms are.
Where do you get this stuff from. It did not specify that they use what they DO wear. None of that is in the verse
Stop adding to the word of God Ayisha Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: As in other verses it says private parts, hair is not a private part, bosoms are.
"Ali reported the Prophet saying: 'Women have ten ('awrah). When she gets married, the husband covers one, and when she dies the grave covers the ten."
What is awrah? The Encyclopedia of Islam defines 'awrah as pudendum, that is the external genitals, especially of the female. Pudendum derives from the Latin pudor which means sense of shame and modesty. So awrah signify an object of shame that needs to be covered. "Awrah (عورة) is a term used within Islam which denotes the parts of the body that are not meant to be exposed in public". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awra
According to the following Hadith, women not only have ten 'awrah, but the woman herself is perceived as 'awrah:
"The woman is 'awrah. When she goes outside (the house), the devil welcomes her."
Women are asked to; 'stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display' Quran 33.33
There are many things in Islam that you, I or no one else understands. In such cases we have to say, "Allah knows best" and stop thinking. If you follow this advice, Islam will make perfect sense to you.
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Women are discouraged from going outside the house, even to pray in the mosque.
"A woman is closest to God's face, if she is found in the core of her house. And the prayer of the woman in the house is better than her prayer in the mosque."
David Gutmann, an emeritus professor of Psychology and Behavioral Sciences at Northwestern University Medical School in Chicago, expresses the problem of isolation in this way:
“The Niqab brings to mind the conformation of the bedouin tent, designed for the mobility, concealment and protection. Thus, even as the traditional Arab woman walks abroad, she remains shrouded, confined within her "house". Even within the traditional Arab homes, the Muslim women of the house do not encounter men from the outer worlds... These are met and given hospitality by the Muslim men of the house in a kind of transitional zones -the Diwan (the room for receiving guests and the women) are only muted voices sifting through from the distant "feminine" spaces of the dwellings. Wearing the Niqab as she ventures forth, the Arab woman remains an extension of her closed domestic spaces, which she carries within her. The Niqab then functions as a kind of an immune system, one which maintains the inner Muslim world, the domain behind the fabrics, in a stable and predictable state... Even as the Arab woman ventures out into a world characterized by these flux and changes, she carries within her the Niqab - a token of the stable domestic world”…
Good women do not complain:
“Narrated Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab: Iyas ibn Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: Do not beat Allah's handmaidens, but when Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) complaining against their husbands. So the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Many women have gone round Muhammad's family complaining against their husbands. They are not the best among you.” [Muslim 11:2141]
“Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.” [Muslim 11:2142]
”Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded.”
"We, the people of Quraish used to have the upper hand over our women (wives), and when we came to the people whose women had the upper hand over them..."
The following hadith shows that Umar b. Khattab, the close companion of Muhammad who eventually became the 2nd Caliph complained about Muslim women learning “the bad habits” of emancipation and independence from the women of Medina and that the Prophet should do something about it:
“We, the people of Quraish, used to have authority over women, but when we came to live with the Ansar, [Muslims of Medina] we noticed that the Ansari women had the upper hand over their men, so our women started acquiring the habits of the Ansari women. Once I shouted at my wife and she paid me back in my coin and I disliked that she should answer me back. She said, 'Why do you take it ill that I retort upon you? By Allah, the wives of the Prophet retort upon him, and some of them may not speak with him for the whole day till night.' What she said scared me and I said to her, 'Whoever amongst them does so, will be a great loser.'
The above Hadith is self-explanatory. The Meccans were more bigoted than the rest of the Arabs. Often people living in religious hubs are more extremists and more misogynists than people living elsewhere. However, people do not think uniformly. In any society some are more fanatical than others. As it appears, Umar and Muhammad were particularly more close-mined and more misogynists than the rest of the Meccans. While the rest of the Meccans did not have any problem listening to the pep talks of their women or accepting them as trade partners, these two men thought emancipation of women is gross, an indecency that must be corrected.
Prior to Islam, Arabs respected women, listened to their advices and followed them as leaders and prophetesses. Gradually, as the new generations were indoctrinated with the teachings of the new revelation they became scornful of women and eventually Muslim women lost their rights in the society.
We have the example of Asma bt. Marwan, the Jewess poetess of Medina who at the behest of Muhammad was assassinated, because she composed “inflammatory poems” against him. The fact that Muhammad feared Asma to the extent that he thought she is endangering his career by mere poems is yet another proof that in the pre Islamic culture of Arabia , Arabs respected their women, listened to them and were inspired by them. Women were not dismissed as deficient in intelligence as later they came to be called, but rather were leaders of thoughts and notable members of the society.
The most glaring example of women’s lofty status before Islam is the fact that during the time of Muhammad, or perhaps just before he announced his prophethood, a woman, called Sijah, had claimed to be a prophetess and had gained many followers. Today a Muslim woman cannot be even Imam. When Dr. Amina Wadud, announced that she would be leading a congregation of Muslim men and women in Friday prayer, the entire Muslim world was up in arms. They condemned her and some even threatened to bomb the hall that she had chosen for conducting the prayer. No mosque allowed her to perform that prayer.
** As a matter of fact it was Umar who urged Muhammad to tell women to veil. At first, Muhammad ignored Umar’s plea, but when Umar kept pestering, Muhammad turned to Allah for His suggestions, resulting in Surah 33:59 It seems odd that the maker of this universe should need the advice of one of his creatures to ordain laws for mankind. Umar, foolishly boasts that God agreed with him. However, not all the companions of Muhammad were as foolhardy as Umar. Abdulah ibn Sarh who was an scribe of Muhammad left Muhammad and Islam after he noticed that God changed his revelations and agreed with him after he suggested better verses. That is of course another subject.
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Lucky me - I dont give a sh!t about what any book tells me to dress like. Dont feel attacked by the devil when i leave the house. Ohhhh being godless is a blessing. Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Literal: You, you the prophet, say to your wives and your daughters and the believers' women they (F) near (lengthen) on them from their shirts/gowns/wide dresses, that (is) nearer that (E) they (F) be known (better than being identified), so they (F) do not be harmed mildly/harmed, and God was/is forgiving, merciful.
I didn't read them all but the few I read also add to the "word of God". All interpretation do. "Prophet, tell your wives, daughters, and the wives of the believers to cover their bosoms and breasts." Nothing about Bosoms and breasts in the verse!
But what was the objective of the verse? What were they asked to do. Were they walking naked that they needed to be reminded to wear something? Was god instructing them to wear a special holy uniform with badge on it?
No not in my opinion He isnt saying wear a uniform with a badge on it. They were obviously not walking around naked as they are told you use what they DO wear to cover more of their body. Lengthen thier skirts, cover themselves. It says nothing of hair. As in other verses it says private parts, hair is not a private part, bosoms are.
Where do you get this stuff from. It did not specify that they use what they DO wear. None of that is in the verse
Stop adding to the word of God Ayisha
The LITERAL translation does say that and every other translation does say that AND the Arabic does say that.Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
Women are asked to; 'stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display' Quran 33.33
again spoken to the wives of the prophet and not to every woman, read 33:32 first Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by current: Oh Yeah, that's right. It never said anything about private parts either. That is all addition to the "word of GOD"
Shame on you people
quote:originally posted by Ayisha: As in other verses it says private parts, hair is not a private part, bosoms are.
posted
"The woman is 'awrah. When she goes outside (the house), the devil welcomes her."
This is very true in nomadic tribal beliefs, I often go into Sidi Abdel Rahman a small town inhabited by Western Desert bedouins, to get some groceries, hardware, bottled water, fruits and stuff..that's where my summer house is by the sea, 125 kms. west of Alexandria. I spend like 2 months every year regularly from '94 when I chose to be as remote from civilization as possible..I know most of the shop owners and we're great buddies, all are bedouins of Libyan ancestry..the little town has a population of like 1500 inhabitants half of which are females...I can assure you that for the last 15 years and to this day I have never encountered meeting or seeing one single female member of this community, never has a female ever shown up, even little girls if you please. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: "The woman is 'awrah. When she goes outside (the house), the devil welcomes her."
This is very true in nomadic tribal beliefs, I often go into Sidi Abdel Rahman a small town inhabited by Western Desert bedouins, to get some groceries, hardware, bottled water, fruits and stuff..that's where my summer house is by the sea, 125 kms. west of Alexandria. I spend like 2 months every year regularly from '94 when I chose to be as remote from civilization as possible..I know most of the shop owners and we're great buddies, all are bedouins of Libyan ancestry..the little town has a population of like 1500 inhabitants half of which are females...I can assure you that for the last 15 years and to this day I have never encountered meeting or seeing one single female member of this community, never has a female ever shown up, even little girls if you please.
Likewise ,,,we are also close friends with the bedouin families where we live and as a woman I can go into their homes, so I can see a little further into their culture. The wonderful thing though about bedouin men is they are so respectful of women. These are really wonderful people.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: If you wanted a cuppa tea you asked from behind a screen and didnt go in the kitchen to ask!
Lol, good point. I think people tend to forget that houses at that time were very different from the houses we have today in most parts of the world. There was much less privacy, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that all the people coming and going to ask the prophet's advice were somehow intruding on his wifes' privacy.
Regarding the term awrah -- we are often made to believe that there is only one definition / interpretation, that supposedly all scholars at all times have agreed on what constitutes a woman's awrah. But nothing is further from the truth, early scholars debated this term and came to very different conclusions.
The term 'awrah is defined by referring to those parts of the body that must be covered during prayer and that are prohibited from being seen. Ibn Muflih, al-Mubdi ; 1:359. Linguistically, it refers to something faulty (nuqsân or 'ayb) or repulsive (mustaqbah or qubh). Al-Bahűtî, Kashshâf al-Qinâ', 1:312; Ibn Nujaym, al-Bahr al-Râ'iq, 1:467.
Generally, jurists provide a definition of the 'awrah when addressing how a Muslim should dress when making obligatory prayers (salât). Interestingly, the earliest traditions on the subject do not reflect a specific discussion on `awrah. Rather they address different dress styles and, at least in the case of women, draw distinctions between certain classes of women. For instance, early works relate traditions of the Prophet praying while wrapped in a single thawb or garment that draped over his shoulders and covered his front and back (layukhâlifu bayna tarafayhi 'alâ 'Abd al-Razzâq, al-Musannaf, 1:350, 353. See also, Ibn Abi Shayba, al-Kitâb al-Musannaf, 1:275-277.
Others suggest that it is better to pray with two garments, namely one wrapped around the waist (izâr) and another draped around the shoulders (ridâ'). Al-San'ânî, al-Musannaf, 1:349, 353-354, 356; Ibn Abi Shayba, al-Kitâb al-Musannaf, 1:2'75-276. See also, al-Ramlî, Nihâyat al-Muhtâj (1992), 2:13; al-Bahűtî, Kashshâf al-Qinâ', 1:316-317. However, the conflict over men's proper attire arises when one's garment is too small. One set of traditions holds that if a man's garment is large enough, he should drape it over himself (mutawashshih), but if it is small, he should pray with the garment wrapped around his waist (muttazir or yukhâlifu bayna tarafayhi). Al-San'ânî, al-Musannaf, 1:352, 353; Ibn Abi Shayba, Kitâb al-Musannaf, 1:275, 276, 277. See also, al-Qarâfî, al-Dhakhîrah, 2:112; Ibn Muflih, al-Mubdi,` 1:64. Others argued that he can pray with a single garment as long as part of it can be draped over his shoulder. Al-San'ânî, al-Musannaf, 1:353; Ibn Abi Shayba, Kitâb al-Musannaf, 1:278. See also, al-Bahűtî, Kashshâf al-Qinaâ', 1:318; Muhammad Amin Ibn 'Abidîn, Hâshiyat Radd al-Muhtâr, (1966), 1:404.
According to the Companion Ibn Mas'űd, if one cannot find sufficient material, then it is permissible to pray with only one garment. However if sufficient material is available, then he should pray with two. However, others such as Umar b. al-Khattâb disagreed> and held that only one garment wrapped around the waist was sufficient for prayers. Al-San'ânî, al-Musannaf, 1:356; Ibn Abi Shayba, Kitâb al-Musannaf, 1:278-279. See also, Ibn Rushd, Bidâyat al-Mujtahid. 1:159.
Incidentally, one report suggests that wearing a garment around the waist was endorsed partly to distinguish the Muslims from the Jews. Al-San'ânî, al-Musannaf, 1:352; Ibn Abi Shayba, Kitâb al-Musannaf, 1:278. Notably, the term 'awrah does not appear in this discussion. Likewise, it is not used in the early discussion on women's attire in prayer. The traditions instead address the kinds of clothing a woman must wear in prayer, and distinguishes between the appropriate attire for free and slave women. Specifically, al-San'ânî relates traditions on two issues. The first issue concerns what a free woman must wear when praying. Generally, the items for consideration are a khimâr, jilbâb, dir` sâbigh, and milhaf. al-San'ânî al-Musannaf, 3:128-129, 131, 135; Ibn Abi Shayba, al-Musannaf, 2:36-37. See also, al-Mâwardî, al-Hâwî al-Kabîr, 2:169; Ibn Muflih, al-Mubdi', 1:366; al-Ramlî, Nihâyat al-Muhtâj (1992), 2:13-14; al-Bahűtî, Kashshâf al-Qinâ', 1:318; Ibn Hazm, al-Muhallâ 2:2:249-250.
The second issue concerns whether a slave woman must also wear a khimâr for prayer? The khimâr is generally a garment that covers a woman's head. Ibn Manzűr, Lisân al-'Arab, 4:257; Ibn Muflih, al-Mubdi`, 1:366; al-Bahűtî, Kashshâf al-Qinâ', 1:318. The meaning of dir` sâbigh generally suggests some type of loose-fitting garment that extends to one's feet. The relevant distinction is that a dir` does not necessarily cover a woman's head. Ibn Manzűr, Lisân al-'Arab, 8:81-82; Ibn Muflih, al-Mubdi`, 1:366; Lane, Arabic-English Lexicon, 1:871-872.
Jilbâb refers to a garment that is larger than a khimâr and generally covers a woman's head and chest area, but may also cover her entire body. In some cases it is used as a synonym for khimâr, and in others for an izâr. Ibn Manzűr, Lisân al-'Arab, 1:272-273. And a milhaf is a blanket (dithâr) or cover which is wrapped over other clothes. Ibn Manzűr, Lisân al-'Arab, 9:314. Al-San'ânî reports that the Prophet said that menstruating free women must wear a khimâr, otherwise their prayer will not be accepted. Al-San'ânî, al-Musannaf, 3:130, 131; Ibn Abi Shayba, Kitâb al-Musannaf, 2:39-40.
The reference to menstruation is generally regarded as a reference to adulthood or the age of majority. Al-Marghînânî, al-Hidâya, 1:43. Women who are not adults are not necessarily subject to this requirement. Al-San'ânî, al-Musannaf, 3:132. In another tradition, a woman is supposed to wear a khimâr, a dir`, and an izâr, although there is some countervailing traditions against this position. Ibn Muflih, al-Mubdi`, 1:366. Some traditions suggest that an acceptable dir' must be long and loose enough to cover the appearance of a woman's feet, although without a khimâr, it is insufficient. Al-San'ânî, al-Musannaf, 3:128; Ibn Abi Shayba, Kitâb al-Musannaf, 2:36.
One tradition relates that 'A'isha was seen wearing during prayer a garment around her waist (mu'tazirah), a dir`, and a thick khimâr. Al-San'ânî, al-Musannaf, p. 129. On the other hand, Umm Habîbah, a wife of the Prophet, is reported to have worn a dir`, and an izâr that was large enough to drape around her and reach the ground. Notably, she did not wear a khimâr. Id. Yet another tradition relates that the Prophet's wives Mayműna and Umm Salamah would wear a khimâr and a dir` sâbigh Ibn Abi Shayba, Kitâb al-Musannaf, 2:36.
107 The issue of 'awrah is complex partly because it is extremely difficult to retrace and reclaim the historical process that produced the determinations as to 'awrah. The conventional wisdom maintains that early on, Muslim jurists held that what should be covered in prayer should be covered outside of prayer. This, however, is not entirely true. The dominant juristic schools of thought argued that the 'awrah of men is what is between the knee and navel. A man ought to cover what is between the knee and navel inside and outside of prayer.
A minority view, however, argued that the 'awrah of men is limited to the groin and buttocks only; the thighs are not 'awrah. The 'awrah of women was a more complex matter. As noted below, the majority argued that all of a woman's body except the hands and face is 'awrah. Abü Hanifa held that the feet are not 'awrah, and some argued that half the arm up to the elbow, or the full arm, is not a 'awrah. A minority view held that even the face and hands are 'awrah and therefore, must be covered as well. An early minority view held that the hair and calves are not 'awrah. In addition, some argued that women must cover their hair at prayer, but not outside of prayer.
Importantly, the jurists disagreed on whether the covering of the 'awrah is a condition precedent for the validity of prayer. The majority held that covering the 'awrah is a fard (basic and necessary requirement) so that the failure to cover the 'awrah would invalidate a person's prayers. The minority view (mostly but not exclusively Mâlikî jurists) held that covering the 'awrah is not a condition precedent for prayer - accordingly, this school argued that covering the 'awrah is among the sunan of prayer (the recommended acts in prayer), and the failure to cover the 'awrah would not void a person's prayers. A large number of Hanafi jurists argued that as long as three-fourth of the body is covered the prayer is valid. Interestingly, Mâlik reportedly allowed people to pray naked ('urâh), if they were unable to procure dressing garments. However he suggested that such people should pray alone so as not to see each other's 'awrah, and remain standing throughout.
However if they are praying in the dark of night (layl muzlim), they may pray in congregation with an imâm leading them. Sahnűn b. Sa'îd, al-Mudawwana al-Kubrâ (Beirut: Dâr Sadr, n.d.), 1:95-96. See also, al-Qarâfî, al-Dhakhîrah, 2:106-107; Ibn Muflih, al-Mubdi ; 1:370-374. The Shi'i al-Tűsî adopts the same view and also allows them to pray in congregation during daylight hours, as long as they pray in only one line and in a sitting Position. al-Tűsî, al-Mabsűt, 1:87.
Al-Bahűtî goes so far as to say that even in this case, congregational prayer remains obligatory. Al-Bahűtî, Kashshâf al-Qinâ', 1:324. See also, Ibn Hazm, al-Muhallâ, 2:255-257. Being unclothed for prayers does not allow one to steal clothes out of necessity, according to al-Ramlî. Since one can pray naked, there is no necessity as in the case of stealing clothes to protect oneself from heat or freezing temperatures, or stealing food to prevent death by starvation. Al-Ramlî, Nihâyat al-Muhtâj (1992), 2:12. See also, al-Bahűtî, Kashshâf al-Qinâ', 1:322-324, who addresses the various means by which those without sufficient clothes can pray.
The overwhelming majority of jurists held that the 'awrah of a slave-girl, or even a female servant girl, is different. Some jurists argued that the 'awrah of such a woman is between the knee and navel - the same as a man. The other jurists held that the 'awrah of such a woman is from the beginning of the chest area to the knees and down to the elbows. Therefore, the majority agreed that a slave-girl or servant-girl may pray with her hair exposed.
A minority view argued that slave-girls should cover their hair in prayer, but do not have to do so outside of prayer. In short, it seems to me that the conventional wisdom is not exactly correct; there seems to be sufficient grounds for differentiating between the 'awrah in prayer and outside of prayer. Furthermore, as noted below, the 'awrah of slave-girls or servant-girls, inside and outside of prayer, raise serious questions about the basis for the historical juristic determinations regarding the 'awrah of women.
See, on the law of `awrah: al-San'ânî, al-Musannaf, 3:128-136 (documents some of the early opinions). For Mâlikî school, see: Ibn Rushd (II), Bidâyat al-Mujtahid, 1:156-158; Ibn Rushd (I), al-Muqaddimât al-Mumahhidât 1:183-185; Sahnűn, nl-Mudawwana (Dar Sadr), 1:94; al-Hattâb al-Ra'înî, Mawâhib al-Jalîl 2:177-187; al-Qarâfî, al-Dhakhîrah, 2:101-105. For Shâfi'î school, see: al-Shâfi'î, al-Umm (Beirut: Dar al-Fikr, n.d.), 1:109; al-Ramlî, Nihâyat al-Muhtâj (1992), 2:7-8, 13; al-Mâwardî, al-Hâwî al-Kabîr, 2:165-171. For Hanafî school, see Ibn Nujaym, al-Bahr al-Râ'iq, 1:467, 469-476; Ibn 'Abidîn, Hâshiyat Radd (1966), 1:405; al-Kâsânî, Badâ'i' al-Sanâ'i' ; pp. 543-546. For Hanbalî school, see Ibn Qudâmah, al-Mughnî (Dar Ihyâ' al-Turâth al-'Arabî), 1:601; Ibn Muflih, al-Mubdi', 1:361-367; al-Bahűtî, Kashshâf al-Qinâ', 1:315-317. For Ja 'farî school, see al-Tűsî, al-Mabsűt, 1:87-88.
109 Qur'ân 33:58-60. Reportedly these verses were revealed in response to several incidents in which the hypocrites of Medina harassed and molested Muslim women. Al-Râzî, al-Tafsîr al-Kabîr (1999), 9:183-184; al-Tabarî, Tafsîr al-Tabarî 6:199-200; al-Qurtubî, al-Jâmi' (1993), 14:157-158; Ibn Kathîr Mukhtasar Tafsîr Ibn Kathîr, 3:114-115.
123 Some of the late jurists argued that if a slave-girl will cause a fitnah she must cover her breasts or hair. Al-Hattâb relates that although a slave woman's 'awrah is the same as a man's, some have said that it is reprehensible for someone who is not her owner to view what is under her garments, or to view her breasts, chest, or whatever else "leads to fitnah" (wa mä yad'ű al-fitnah minhâ). Consequently, despite having the same 'awrah as men, it is preferred that she bare her head but cover her body. Al-Hattâb Mawâhib al-Jalîl, 2:180, 184. See also, al-Qarâfî, al-Dhakhirah, 2:103-104. Al-Bahűt relates views suggesting that as a matter of caution (ihtiyät), it is preferrable that the slave-girl cover herself in the Same fashion as an adult free woman, including covering her head during prayer. Al-Bahűtî, Kashshâf al-Qinâ', 1:316. Ibn 'Abidîn also argues that most of the scholars of the Hanafî school do not permit a slave woman to have her breasts, chest, or back exposed; however it is said that a slave woman's chest is part of her 'awrah only in prayer but not otherwise. Nevertheless, Ibn 'Abidîn finds this latter view unconvincing. Ibn 'Abidîn, Hűshiya Radd (1966), 1:405. See also, Ibn Nujaym, al-Bahr al-Râ'iq, 1:474; al-Marghînâî, al-Hidâya, 1:44.
126 Reportedly, the early jurists Dâwűd b. 'Alî and Jarîr al-Tabarî the founder of a now extinct school of jurisprudence, held that the 'awrah of men and women, slave or otherwise, is the same. See al-Mâwardî, al-Hâwî al-Kabîr, 2:167.
127 For instance, al-Rustâqî, Manhaj al-Tâlibîn, 8:21, 26, argues that every place and time have their own iaws. He states that in some places it is acceptable for women to reveal their hair while in Oman it is considered ugly (qabîh). He concludes by stating that whatever Muslims see as ugly is, in fact, ugly. Al-Marghînânî, al-Hidâya, 1:44, mentions that slave-girls were not required to wear the veil because they need to work and requiring the veil would cause hardship (daf 'an li al-haraj).
Al-Qarâfî relates a tradition in which `Umar b. al-Khattâb asks his son why he was silent about the fact that the latter's slave woman walked about wearing an izâr like a free woman. Reportedly, `Umar then adds that if he were to see her, he would hit her for doing so. Al-Qarâfî explains `Umar's position was relevant only to a very specific historical situation in Medina, in which crazed men would harass slave women but not Irre women. See al-Qarâfî, al-Dhakhîrah,
129 For the six points above see, al-Tabarî Jâmi' al-Bayân, 18:93-95, 22:33-34 (mentions a variety of early opinions including the up to the elbow and the beginning of cleavage area determinations; also mentions the distinction between free and slave girls; mentions the historical practice); al-Nasafî, Tafsîr al-Nasafî (Cairo: Dar Ihyâ' al-Kutub al-Arabiyya, n.d.), 3:140, 313, (mentions 'âdah, jibillah, and hâjah; women need to reveal their faces, hands, and feet by custom, nature, and need; mentions the distinction applicable to slavegirls; mentions the historical practice); al-Jassâs, Ahkâm, 3:409-410, 486, mentions that slave-girls do not have to cover their hair; mentions the historical practice); al-Kiyyâ al-Harrâsî, ahkâm al-Qur'ân (1974), 4:288, 354 (notes slave-girls do not have to cover their faces or hair); Ibn al-'Arabî', Ahkâm al-Qur'ân (n.d.), 3:1368-78, 1586-87 (mentions a variety of details to adornments; discusses the rule as to slave-girls); al-Qurtubî, al-Jâmi'(1993), 12:152-153, 157; 14:156-157 (mentions that the verse was revealed to address the harassment of women, and to differentiate slave-girls from Muslim women; notes the opinion that held that the verse called for the covering of the bosom area); Ibn Kathîr, Mukhtasar Tafsîr Ibn Kathîr, 2:600; 3:114-115, (mentions determinations as to the bosom; also notes that free Muslim women must cover their faces); Abű Hayyân al-Andalusî, Tafsîr al-Bahr al-Muhît, 6:412; 7:240-241 (mentions custom, nature, necessity; mentions the historical practice as to revealing the bosom; mentions the distinction as to slave-girls); al-Zamakhshari, al-Kashshâf, 3:60-62, 274 (mentions the historical practice, distinction as to slave-girls, the rules as to functionality and custom, mentions that covering ought not cause hardship); Ibn al-Jawzî, Zâd al-Masîr fî 'Ilm al-Tafsîr, 5:377-378; 6:224 (mentions mashaqqah - hardship); al-Mâwardî, al-Nukat wa al-'Uyűn, 4:90-93, 424-425, (notes the opinion that the purpose of revelation was to instruct women to cover their bosoms; mentions the differentiation as to slave-girls); al-Shinqîtî, Adwâ' al-Bayân, 6:192-203, 586-600 (mentions a variety of positions; mentions determinations as to revealing the arm up to the elbow and the view that the point is to cover the bosom; mentions the historical practice and differentiation as to slave-girls; author supports covering the face); Ibn Taymiyya, al-Tafsîr, 6:23, (notes that the law of veiling does not apply to slave-girls); Fakhr al-Dîn Muhammad al-Râzî, al-Tafsîr al-Kabîr (a.k.a Mafâtîh al-Ghayb), 23:176-179; 25:198-199, (mentions al-'âdah al-jâriyah (the habitual custom) and functionality as the focal issues in determining what women ought to cover; mentions the historical practice and the distinction as to slave-girls); Ibn 'Atiyya, al-Muharrar al-Wajîz, 4:178, 399 (mentions the determinations as to the bosom and arm up to the elbow; mentions the rule of functionality and custom; mentions the historical practice and the distinction as to slave-girls); al-Suyűtî, al-Durr al-Manthűr, 5:45-46, 239-241 (mentions the determinations as to the arm up to the elbow and the bosom; notes the discussion regarding the beginning of the cleavage area; mentions the historical practice and the distinction as to slave-girls); al-Burűsî, Tanwîr al-Adhhân, 3:57-59, 254-255, (mentions the determinations as to the arm up to the elbow and the bosom; mentions the historical practice and distinction as to slave-girls); Abű Hafs `Umar b. 'Alî Ibn 'Adil al-Dimashqî al-Lubâb fî 'Ulűm al-Kitâb 14:355-358; 15:588-590 (mentions that according to some reports the verse was revealed to vindicate 'Alî's family.
Also mentions that other reports contend that hypocrites of Medina would solicit women at night. Girls who practiced prostitution would respond to their solicitation. The verse was revealed partly to end this practice. Mentions the rule of practice and custom (mâ u'tîda kashfuh), and functionality and rule of necessity; mentions the distinction as to slave-girls); al-Alűsî, Rűh al-Ma'ânî (1985), 18:140-142; 22:89, (mentions the issue of functionality and that slave-girls lead an active economic life; mentions custom, habit, and nature; mentions the historical practice); al-Sâwî, Hâshiyat al-'Allâmah, 3:136-137, 288-289 (mentions various positions).
(from Khaled Abou el Fadl's "Speaking in God’s Name – Islamic Law, Authority and Women")
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: The thing is though the husband does eventually have to answer for the wife in Islam
The Qur'an clearly states that every soul is responsible for itself. It says that the believing men and women are awliya (friends, protectors, supporters) of one another (9:71).
It's scholars, mostly of the Salafi school of thought, who claim that the husband is responsible for his wife's actions, and they usually base that claim on a very twisted interpretation of 4:34.
Saying that the husband will have to answer for his wife is like saying that somehow he is better able to distinguish right from wrong, that he is somehow superior in morals, or knowledge, or faith. And that's exactly what those scholars keep claiming. But that's contrary to what the Qur'an actually says on the subject, not to mention contrary to common sense, logic and justice.
God does not put the woman in the position of a child.
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Of course not one response here from an Egyptian male.
But would that really help you? At the end of the day it will be your decision to make.
Egyptian men are not all the same, and of course their opinions are not all the same. I have a bunch of Egyptian male friends who are completely against the veil, for example.
Dalia you are so well read and I find it a joy to read your posts
Posts: 564 | From: planet earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Literal: You, you the prophet, say to your wives and your daughters and the believers' women they (F) near (lengthen) on them from their shirts/gowns/wide dresses, that (is) nearer that (E) they (F) be known (better than being identified), so they (F) do not be harmed mildly/harmed, and God was/is forgiving, merciful.
I didn't read them all but the few I read also add to the "word of God". All interpretation do. "Prophet, tell your wives, daughters, and the wives of the believers to cover their bosoms and breasts." Nothing about Bosoms and breasts in the verse!
But what was the objective of the verse? What were they asked to do. Were they walking naked that they needed to be reminded to wear something? Was god instructing them to wear a special holy uniform with badge on it?
No not in my opinion He isnt saying wear a uniform with a badge on it. They were obviously not walking around naked as they are told you use what they DO wear to cover more of their body. Lengthen thier skirts, cover themselves. It says nothing of hair. As in other verses it says private parts, hair is not a private part, bosoms are.
Where do you get this stuff from. It did not specify that they use what they DO wear. None of that is in the verse
Stop adding to the word of God Ayisha
The LITERAL translation does say that and every other translation does say that AND the Arabic does say that.
No actually it does NOT say that and it does not make sense to say that. How would a woman, for example, who's wearing a dress that is a bit too short lengthen it to cover more of her body? It does not specify that they should "use what they DO wear". That simply is an addition to the words of God.
But imagine this, God takes the time out to send a message to his creation specifically to tell them not to annoy the prophet. Now that's what I call convenient.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by current: Oh Yeah, that's right. It never said anything about private parts either. That is all addition to the "word of GOD"
Shame on you people
quote:originally posted by Ayisha: As in other verses it says private parts, hair is not a private part, bosoms are.
read 33:35
You are seriously confused.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by current: Oh Yeah, that's right. It never said anything about private parts either. That is all addition to the "word of GOD"
Shame on you people
quote:originally posted by Ayisha: As in other verses it says private parts, hair is not a private part, bosoms are.
read 33:35
You are seriously confused.
Literal That truly the Moslems/submitters (M) , and the Moslems/submitters (F), and the believers (M), and the believers (F), and the obeying humbly (M) , and the obeying humbly (F) , and the truthful (M), and the truthful (F), and the patient (M), and the patient (F), and the humble/submissive (M) , and the humble/submissive (F) , and the charity givers (M), and the charity givers (F), and the fasters (M) ,and the fasters (F) , and the protecting/observing (M) their genital parts between their (M) legs, and the protecting/observing (F) , and the mentioning/remembering God much, and the mentioning/remembering (F) , God prepared for them a forgiveness and a great reward .
Yusuf Ali For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise,- for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.
Pickthal Lo! men who surrender unto Allah, and women who surrender, and men who believe and women who believe, and men who obey and women who obey, and men who speak the truth and women who speak the truth, and men who persevere (in righteousness) and women who persevere, and men who are humble and women who are humble, and men who give alms and women who give alms, and men who fast and women who fast, and men who guard their modesty and women who guard (their modesty), and men who remember Allah much and women who remember - Allah hath prepared for them forgiveness and a vast reward.
Arberry Men and women who have surrendered, believing men and believing women, obedient men and obedient women, truthful men and truthful women, enduring men and enduring women, humble men and humble women, men and women who give in charity, men who fast and women who fast, men and women who guard their private parts, men and women who remember God oft -- for them God has prepared forgiveness and a mighty wage.
Shakir Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obeying men and the obeying women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women and the humble men and the humble women, and the almsgiving men and the almsgiving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember-- Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.
Sarwar God has promised forgiveness and great rewards to the Muslim men and the Muslim women, the believing men and the believing women, the obedient men and the obedient women, the truthful men and the truthful women, the forbearing men and the forbearing women, the humble men and the humble women, the alms-giving men and the alms-giving women, the fasting men and the fasting women, the chaste men and the chaste women, and the men and women who remember God very often.
H/K/Saheeh Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women, the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember Allah often and the women who do so for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward.
Malik Surely the Muslim men and the Muslim women, the believing men and the believing women, the devout men and the devout women, the truthful men and the truthful women, the patient men and the patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and the charitable women, the fasting men and the fasting women, the men who guard their chastity and the women who guard their chastity, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember Allah much - for all those, Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward.[35]
Maulana Ali** Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women, and the humble men and the humble women, and the charitable men and the charitable women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their chastity and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember -- Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.
Free Minds Surely, the surrendering men, and the surrendering women, the believing men, and the believing women, the obedient men, and the obedient women, the truthful men, and the truthful women, the patient men, and the patient women, the humble men, and the humble women, the charitable men, and the charitable women, the fasting men, and the fasting women, the men who keep covered their private parts, and the women who similarly keep covered, and the men who commemorate God frequently, and the commemorating women; God has prepared for them a forgiveness and a great recompense.
Qaribullah For men and women who have surrendered believing men and women; obedient men and women; truthful men and women, patient men and women, humble men and women, men and women who give charity, men and women who fast, men and women who guard their privates, men and women who remember Allah in abundance, for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a mighty wage.
George Sale Verily the Moslems of either sex, and the true believers of either sex, and the devout men, and the devout women, and the men of veracity, and the women of veracity, and the patient men, and the patient women, and the humble men and the humble women, and the alms-givers of either sex, and the men who fast, and the women who fast, and the chaste men, and the chaste women, and those of either sex who remember God frequently; for them hath God prepared forgiveness, and a great reward.
Asad VERILY, for all nd all truly devout men and truly devout women, and all men and women who are true to their word, and all men and women who are patient in adversity, and all men and women who humble themselves [before God], and all men and women who give in charity, and all self-denying men and self-denying women, [The term saim, usually rendered as "fasting", has here its primary connotation of "one who abstains [from anything]" or "denies to himself [anything]": cf. 19:26, where the noun sawm denotes "abstinence from speech".] and all men and women who are mindful of their chastity, [Lit., "the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard [them]": see note on 24:30.] and all men and women who remember God unceasingly: for [all of] them has God readied forgiveness of sins and a mighty reward.
nope im not confused
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by current: Oh Yeah, that's right. It never said anything about private parts either. That is all addition to the "word of GOD"
Shame on you people
quote:originally posted by Ayisha: As in other verses it says private parts, hair is not a private part, bosoms are.
read 33:35
You are seriously confused.
Literal That truly the Moslems/submitters (M) , and the Moslems/submitters (F), and the believers (M), and the believers (F), and the obeying humbly (M) , and the obeying humbly (F) , and the truthful (M), and the truthful (F), and the patient (M), and the patient (F), and the humble/submissive (M) , and the humble/submissive (F) , and the charity givers (M), and the charity givers (F), and the fasters (M) ,and the fasters (F) , and the protecting/observing (M) their genital parts between their (M) legs, and the protecting/observing (F) , and the mentioning/remembering God much, and the mentioning/remembering (F) , God prepared for them a forgiveness and a great reward .
Yusuf Ali For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise,- for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.
Pickthal Lo! men who surrender unto Allah, and women who surrender, and men who believe and women who believe, and men who obey and women who obey, and men who speak the truth and women who speak the truth, and men who persevere (in righteousness) and women who persevere, and men who are humble and women who are humble, and men who give alms and women who give alms, and men who fast and women who fast, and men who guard their modesty and women who guard (their modesty), and men who remember Allah much and women who remember - Allah hath prepared for them forgiveness and a vast reward.
Arberry Men and women who have surrendered, believing men and believing women, obedient men and obedient women, truthful men and truthful women, enduring men and enduring women, humble men and humble women, men and women who give in charity, men who fast and women who fast, men and women who guard their private parts, men and women who remember God oft -- for them God has prepared forgiveness and a mighty wage.
Shakir Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obeying men and the obeying women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women and the humble men and the humble women, and the almsgiving men and the almsgiving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember-- Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.
Sarwar God has promised forgiveness and great rewards to the Muslim men and the Muslim women, the believing men and the believing women, the obedient men and the obedient women, the truthful men and the truthful women, the forbearing men and the forbearing women, the humble men and the humble women, the alms-giving men and the alms-giving women, the fasting men and the fasting women, the chaste men and the chaste women, and the men and women who remember God very often.
H/K/Saheeh Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women, the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember Allah often and the women who do so for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward.
Malik Surely the Muslim men and the Muslim women, the believing men and the believing women, the devout men and the devout women, the truthful men and the truthful women, the patient men and the patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and the charitable women, the fasting men and the fasting women, the men who guard their chastity and the women who guard their chastity, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember Allah much - for all those, Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward.[35]
Maulana Ali** Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women, and the humble men and the humble women, and the charitable men and the charitable women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their chastity and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember -- Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.
Free Minds Surely, the surrendering men, and the surrendering women, the believing men, and the believing women, the obedient men, and the obedient women, the truthful men, and the truthful women, the patient men, and the patient women, the humble men, and the humble women, the charitable men, and the charitable women, the fasting men, and the fasting women, the men who keep covered their private parts, and the women who similarly keep covered, and the men who commemorate God frequently, and the commemorating women; God has prepared for them a forgiveness and a great recompense.
Qaribullah For men and women who have surrendered believing men and women; obedient men and women; truthful men and women, patient men and women, humble men and women, men and women who give charity, men and women who fast, men and women who guard their privates, men and women who remember Allah in abundance, for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a mighty wage.
George Sale Verily the Moslems of either sex, and the true believers of either sex, and the devout men, and the devout women, and the men of veracity, and the women of veracity, and the patient men, and the patient women, and the humble men and the humble women, and the alms-givers of either sex, and the men who fast, and the women who fast, and the chaste men, and the chaste women, and those of either sex who remember God frequently; for them hath God prepared forgiveness, and a great reward.
Asad VERILY, for all nd all truly devout men and truly devout women, and all men and women who are true to their word, and all men and women who are patient in adversity, and all men and women who humble themselves [before God], and all men and women who give in charity, and all self-denying men and self-denying women, [The term saim, usually rendered as "fasting", has here its primary connotation of "one who abstains [from anything]" or "denies to himself [anything]": cf. 19:26, where the noun sawm denotes "abstinence from speech".] and all men and women who are mindful of their chastity, [Lit., "the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard [them]": see note on 24:30.] and all men and women who remember God unceasingly: for [all of] them has God readied forgiveness of sins and a mighty reward.
nope im not confused
OK. Protect their private parts from what? Getting kicked? Squeezed in a vice? What exactly and why was God so concerned about private parts? Were people walking around with their private parts exposed?
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by current: Were people walking around with their private parts exposed?
Yes..till the 9th. year of hijra the hajj ritual was actually performed in the buff..Islam later on banned it and switched to the regular outfits we see nowadays..I'm not going to bother proving it because I've been assured this from the right people...you can research that if you want.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: [QUOTE]Originally posted by current: Were people walking around with their private parts exposed?
Yes..till the 9th. year of hijra the hajj ritual was actually performed in the buff..Islam later on banned it and switched to the regular outfits we see nowadays..I'm not going to bother proving it because I've been assured this from the right people...you can research that if you want.
That's all nonsense and I know that for a fact. I talked to the right people and they told me that you are completely wrong. So that you know, they are always right.
Posts: 406 | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
tina if you were living in that time would you do the hajj stark naked ? You know that's how we all came to this world..so we must return to the purity and nakedness we were created with..that's no option. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: tina if you were living in that time would you do the hajj stark naked ? You know that's how we all came to this world..so we must return to the purity and nakedness we were created with..that's no option.
hell yea i would do anything naked.. well almost anything.. hehehehehe would u?? i am off see yall later time to sleep.. thinkin about naked men has made me sleepy...
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:OK. Protect their private parts from what? Getting kicked? Squeezed in a vice? What exactly and why was God so concerned about private parts?
It's humans that are overly concerned with this, not God.
Imo it can mean two things ... protect them from illegal acts, or protect them as in don't expose them if you're afraid that this might lead to problems.
So it's common sense to "protect your private parts", however, what is considered private parts and how they need to be "protected" differs greatly between cultures and depends on circumstances.
And, speaking of private parts and common sense:
Al-Azhar's fatwa committee chairman Abdullah Megawar argued that married couples could see each other naked but should not look at each other's genitalia and suggested they cover up with a blanket during sex.
How idiotic and impracticable is that?! And why would it be the business of a religious scholar what people look at in the privacy of their bedroom anyway? Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
Al-Azhar's fatwa committee chairman Abdullah Megawar argued that married couples could see each other naked but should not look at each other's genitalia and suggested they cover up with a blanket during sex.
How idiotic and impracticable is that?! And why would it be the business of a religious scholar what people look at in the privacy of their bedroom anyway?
oh yea! so why did God stick willie's where you can hardly miss seeing them and make them grow bigger to have sex....
joking aside the Koran is very clear on what you can't do in sexual relations so anything else goes and we don't need these so called religious scholars adding to it.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Al-Azhar's fatwa committee chairman Abdullah Megawar argued that married couples could see each other naked but should not look at each other's genitalia and suggested they cover up with a blanket during sex.
How idiotic and impracticable is that?! And why would it be the business of a religious scholar what people look at in the privacy of their bedroom anyway?
oh yea! so why did God stick willie's where you can hardly miss seeing them and make them grow bigger to have sex....
posted
Wiping coffee from my screen Class !!
Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: I'd like the response of Egyptian men, though I kinda know that will be few and far between unless a lot have signed up here in the past year or so.
Just a carryover from another conversation on another board about Egyptian men. Some of the things they do are so nice and loving and boy do they ever have a sense of humor, right??? lol.
Ok but some can be a wee bit particular about the way their wives dress. Of course there are the exceptions to every rule but from what I've read and even experienced to some extent, the theory seems to hold water.
So, Egyptian men, I have a question for you. If your muslim wife observed hijab in dressing such as no showing arms/legs/covering hair when you met her but then wanted to wear a short sleeved shirt outside the house all of a sudden and asked you if you minded, what would you say?
ok who's got the popcorn?
here is another Egyptian man. I will not discuss religion but I will tell you this. I see a lot of women Who are not wearing Higab but I respect more than some women who wear Higab.(I have roots in Cairo and in country side,those who are in country side always wear it those who are in cairo do not,but I respct both of them THE SAME AMOUNT,but i wish they wear it) Higab is responsibility and you must be able to take control of it(just as the poor women who killed in germany god bless her soul when she refused to take off her higab) You not wearing higab does not make me feel sick or whatever. You are asking about me if my wife decided to take it off what will I do?! She won't do that.!! Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: I'd like the response of Egyptian men, though I kinda know that will be few and far between unless a lot have signed up here in the past year or so.
Just a carryover from another conversation on another board about Egyptian men. Some of the things they do are so nice and loving and boy do they ever have a sense of humor, right??? lol.
Ok but some can be a wee bit particular about the way their wives dress. Of course there are the exceptions to every rule but from what I've read and even experienced to some extent, the theory seems to hold water.
So, Egyptian men, I have a question for you. If your muslim wife observed hijab in dressing such as no showing arms/legs/covering hair when you met her but then wanted to wear a short sleeved shirt outside the house all of a sudden and asked you if you minded, what would you say?
ok who's got the popcorn?
here is another Egyptian man. I will not discuss religion but I will tell you this. I see a lot of women Who are not wearing Higab but I respect more than some women who wear Higab.(I have roots in Cairo and in country side,those who are in country side always wear it those who are in cairo do not,but I respct both of them THE SAME AMOUNT,but i wish they wear it) Higab is responsibility and you must be able to take control of it(just as the poor women who killed in germany god bless her soul when she refused to take off her higab) You not wearing higab does not make me feel sick or whatever. You are asking about me if my wife decided to take it off what will I do?! She won't do that.!!
THANK YOU AHMAD!! I like your reply that your wife will never take off higab!
You sound exactly like my wonderful husband (he's egyptian)...........he KNOWS i will NEVER take off higab. That was one of his things he wanted in a wife: she must wear higab always, never smoking, never drinking alcohol, never any tatoos. He found all of those things in me, and I found all of the things i need in him, alhamdulillah. Posts: 8 | Registered: Jul 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: I'd like the response of Egyptian men, though I kinda know that will be few and far between unless a lot have signed up here in the past year or so.
Just a carryover from another conversation on another board about Egyptian men. Some of the things they do are so nice and loving and boy do they ever have a sense of humor, right??? lol.
Ok but some can be a wee bit particular about the way their wives dress. Of course there are the exceptions to every rule but from what I've read and even experienced to some extent, the theory seems to hold water.
So, Egyptian men, I have a question for you. If your muslim wife observed hijab in dressing such as no showing arms/legs/covering hair when you met her but then wanted to wear a short sleeved shirt outside the house all of a sudden and asked you if you minded, what would you say?
ok who's got the popcorn?
here is another Egyptian man. I will not discuss religion but I will tell you this. I see a lot of women Who are not wearing Higab but I respect more than some women who wear Higab.(I have roots in Cairo and in country side,those who are in country side always wear it those who are in cairo do not,but I respct both of them THE SAME AMOUNT,but i wish they wear it) Higab is responsibility and you must be able to take control of it(just as the poor women who killed in germany god bless her soul when she refused to take off her higab) You not wearing higab does not make me feel sick or whatever. You are asking about me if my wife decided to take it off what will I do?! She won't do that.!!
THANK YOU AHMAD!! I like your reply that your wife will never take off higab!
You sound exactly like my wonderful husband (he's egyptian)...........he KNOWS i will NEVER take off higab. That was one of his things he wanted in a wife: she must wear higab always, never smoking, never drinking alcohol, never any tatoos. He found all of those things in me, and I found all of the things i need in him, alhamdulillah.
posted
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: I'd like the response of Egyptian men, though I kinda know that will be few and far between unless a lot have signed up here in the past year or so.
Just a carryover from another conversation on another board about Egyptian men. Some of the things they do are so nice and loving and boy do they ever have a sense of humor, right??? lol.
Ok but some can be a wee bit particular about the way their wives dress. Of course there are the exceptions to every rule but from what I've read and even experienced to some extent, the theory seems to hold water.
So, Egyptian men, I have a question for you. If your muslim wife observed hijab in dressing such as no showing arms/legs/covering hair when you met her but then wanted to wear a short sleeved shirt outside the house all of a sudden and asked you if you minded, what would you say?
ok who's got the popcorn?
here is another Egyptian man. I will not discuss religion but I will tell you this. I see a lot of women Who are not wearing Higab but I respect more than some women who wear Higab.(I have roots in Cairo and in country side,those who are in country side always wear it those who are in cairo do not,but I respct both of them THE SAME AMOUNT,but i wish they wear it) Higab is responsibility and you must be able to take control of it(just as the poor women who killed in germany god bless her soul when she refused to take off her higab) You not wearing higab does not make me feel sick or whatever. You are asking about me if my wife decided to take it off what will I do?! She won't do that.!!
THANK YOU AHMAD!! I like your reply that your wife will never take off higab!
You sound exactly like my wonderful husband (he's egyptian)...........he KNOWS i will NEVER take off higab. That was one of his things he wanted in a wife: she must wear higab always, never smoking, never drinking alcohol, never any tatoos. He found all of those things in me, and I found all of the things i need in him, alhamdulillah.
Alhamdulillah, the controlling found the controlled. I wish you many years of obedience to your husband Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: I'd like the response of Egyptian men, though I kinda know that will be few and far between unless a lot have signed up here in the past year or so.
Just a carryover from another conversation on another board about Egyptian men. Some of the things they do are so nice and loving and boy do they ever have a sense of humor, right??? lol.
Ok but some can be a wee bit particular about the way their wives dress. Of course there are the exceptions to every rule but from what I've read and even experienced to some extent, the theory seems to hold water.
So, Egyptian men, I have a question for you. If your muslim wife observed hijab in dressing such as no showing arms/legs/covering hair when you met her but then wanted to wear a short sleeved shirt outside the house all of a sudden and asked you if you minded, what would you say?
ok who's got the popcorn?
here is another Egyptian man. I will not discuss religion but I will tell you this. I see a lot of women Who are not wearing Higab but I respect more than some women who wear Higab.(I have roots in Cairo and in country side,those who are in country side always wear it those who are in cairo do not,but I respct both of them THE SAME AMOUNT,but i wish they wear it) Higab is responsibility and you must be able to take control of it(just as the poor women who killed in germany god bless her soul when she refused to take off her higab) You not wearing higab does not make me feel sick or whatever. You are asking about me if my wife decided to take it off what will I do?! She won't do that.!!
THANK YOU AHMAD!! I like your reply that your wife will never take off higab!
You sound exactly like my wonderful husband (he's egyptian)...........he KNOWS i will NEVER take off higab. That was one of his things he wanted in a wife: she must wear higab always, never smoking, never drinking alcohol, never any tatoos. He found all of those things in me, and I found all of the things i need in him, alhamdulillah.
Alhamdulillah, the controlling found the controlled. I wish you many years of obedience to your husband
Alhamdulillah, I'm not a dirty kaffir female who smokes, drinks, does drugs, has tattoos and wishes she was a man so that she can control men.
Alhamdulillah I'm not a the type of female who hates men so much, that she hates showing her good husband any kind of respect as a man. She always has to tell him what to do and shout at him. She is in denial how much she hates men, and even marries the kind of men she hates the most, Muslim men.
These women hate themselves more than they hate men. I would hate myself too if I was like them.
Thank you again Ahmad for being another strong Muslim man in this world!! Posts: 8 | Registered: Jul 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: I'd like the response of Egyptian men, though I kinda know that will be few and far between unless a lot have signed up here in the past year or so.
Just a carryover from another conversation on another board about Egyptian men. Some of the things they do are so nice and loving and boy do they ever have a sense of humor, right??? lol.
Ok but some can be a wee bit particular about the way their wives dress. Of course there are the exceptions to every rule but from what I've read and even experienced to some extent, the theory seems to hold water.
So, Egyptian men, I have a question for you. If your muslim wife observed hijab in dressing such as no showing arms/legs/covering hair when you met her but then wanted to wear a short sleeved shirt outside the house all of a sudden and asked you if you minded, what would you say?
ok who's got the popcorn?
here is another Egyptian man. I will not discuss religion but I will tell you this. I see a lot of women Who are not wearing Higab but I respect more than some women who wear Higab.(I have roots in Cairo and in country side,those who are in country side always wear it those who are in cairo do not,but I respct both of them THE SAME AMOUNT,but i wish they wear it) Higab is responsibility and you must be able to take control of it(just as the poor women who killed in germany god bless her soul when she refused to take off her higab) You not wearing higab does not make me feel sick or whatever. You are asking about me if my wife decided to take it off what will I do?! She won't do that.!!
T
HANK YOU AHMAD!! I like your reply that your wife will never take off higab!
You sound exactly like my wonderful husband (he's egyptian)...........he KNOWS i will NEVER take off higab. That was one of his things he wanted in a wife: she must wear higab always, never smoking, never drinking alcohol, never any tatoos. He found all of those things in me, and I found all of the things i need in him, alhamdulillah.
Alhamdulillah, the controlling found the controlled. I wish you many years of obedience to your husband
Alhamdulillah, I'm not a dirty kaffir female who smokes, drinks, does drugs, has tattoos and wishes she was a man so that she can control men.
What a boring life y must have!
Offcourse all women without hijabs do drugs, drink and smoke.....Naturally
Get a life and a will of your own insted of just a mans will. What are y? Someone that cooks meals for your muslim husband, live with his mom and wipes her ass and feed her, give birth when he wants kids, lay on your back whenever he want sex, keep the house clean and say yes sir when he smacks y around???? Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
Why do you sick women equate wearing higab, cooking for my husband, having children with him, treating him like a real man in the bedroom and cleaning our house as some kind of slavery or mind control??? It's called love between a husband and wife, something you know nothing about if you feel these things are equal to being controlled.
What is wrong with you females? And you wonder why your men have affairs and divorce you??? You hate men and they can feel it by the way you treat them!
By the way, we do not live with his mother, and my husband does not hit me, not that you would know that because, Alhamduliallah, you don't know us.
And by the way, if you feel that cleaning your house (the same house that your husband lives in) means he is controlling you, then who cleans YOUR house? A maid, just so you can tell him that he can't tell you what to do?
If you don't want to do all of these things for him (cooking, cleaning, sex, children, etc.) because you feel that it means he's controllong you, THEN BE SURE HE WILL FIND A REAL WOMAN WHO WILL DO THESE THINGS FOR HIM.........BECAUSE SHE LOVES HIM.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Jul 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MENAgirl: Alhamdulillah, I'm not a dirty kaffir female who smokes, drinks, does drugs, has tattoos and wishes she was a man so that she can control men.
Alhamdulillah I'm not a Muslim woman with a holier-than-though attitude, a foul mouth and lack of manners.
quote:Originally posted by MENAgirl: Alhamdulillah I'm not a the type of female who hates men so much, that she hates showing her good husband any kind of respect as a man. She always has to tell him what to do and shout at him. She is in denial how much she hates men, and even marries the kind of men she hates the most, Muslim men.
Alhamdullilah I'm not the type of female who needs to hate others in order to have a sense of identity.
quote:Originally posted by MENAgirl: Alhamdulillah, I'm not a dirty kaffir female who smokes, drinks, does drugs, has tattoos and wishes she was a man so that she can control men.
Alhamdulillah I'm not a Muslim woman with a holier-than-though attitude, a foul mouth and lack of manners.
quote:Originally posted by MENAgirl: Alhamdulillah I'm not a the type of female who hates men so much, that she hates showing her good husband any kind of respect as a man. She always has to tell him what to do and shout at him. She is in denial how much she hates men, and even marries the kind of men she hates the most, Muslim men.
Alhamdullilah I'm not the type of female who needs to hate others in order to have a sense of identity.
Foul mouth? Which profanity did I use??? None. And I don't have a holier than thou attitude. Non-muslim women and non-higabis always insult us higabis for being controlled by our husbands and having unhappy lives.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Jul 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MENAgirl: Yet another man-hater, naturally.
Why do you sick women equate wearing higab, cooking for my husband, having children with him, treating him like a real man in the bedroom and cleaning our house as some kind of slavery or mind control??? It's called love between a husband and wife, something you know nothing about if you feel these things are equal to being controlled.
What is wrong with you females? And you wonder why your men have affairs and divorce you??? You hate men and they can feel it by the way you treat them!
By the way, we do not live with his mother, and my husband does not hit me, not that you would know that because, Alhamduliallah, you don't know us.
Naah i LOOOVVEE my man but im not his underdog.
EQUALITY is a keyword!!!!!! If i have to cover myself, - then he should do the same Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Originally posted by Tibe still working: EQUALITY is a keyword!!!!!! If i have to cover myself, - then he should do the same
What !!? do you go topless on the beach or does he wear a bra ?
Equality exists only in the arab gulf, they're both covered. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Originally posted by Tibe still working: EQUALITY is a keyword!!!!!! If i have to cover myself, - then he should do the same
What !!? do you go topless on the beach or does he wear a bra ?
Equality exists only in the arab gulf, they're both covered.
Yes the day he grow boobs like mine he has to wear a bra.
(yyyddrrkkk recalls having seen some of thoose fat men that nearly needs a bra.. )
Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: [qb] I'd like the response of Egyptian men, though I kinda know that will be few and far between unless a lot have signed up here in the past year or so.
Just a carryover from another conversation on another board about Egyptian men. Some of the things they do are so nice and loving and boy do they ever have a sense of humor, right??? lol.
Ok but some can be a wee bit particular about the way their wives dress. Of course there are the exceptions to every rule but from what I've read and even experienced to some extent, the theory seems to hold water.
So, Egyptian men, I have a question for you. If your muslim wife observed hijab in dressing such as no showing arms/legs/covering hair when you met her but then wanted to wear a short sleeved shirt outside the house all of a sudden and asked you if you minded, what would you say?
ok who's got the popcorn?
here is another Egyptian man. I will not discuss religion but I will tell you this. I see a lot of women Who are not wearing Higab but I respect more than some women who wear Higab.(I have roots in Cairo and in country side,those who are in country side always wear it those who are in cairo do not,but I respct both of them THE SAME AMOUNT,but i wish they wear it) Higab is responsibility and you must be able to take control of it(just as the poor women who killed in germany god bless her soul when she refused to take off her higab) You not wearing higab does not make me feel sick or whatever. You are asking about me if my wife decided to take it off what will I do?! She won't do that.!!
THANK YOU AHMAD!! I like your reply that your wife will never take off higab!
You sound exactly like my wonderful husband (he's egyptian)...........he KNOWS i will NEVER take off higab. That was one of his things he wanted in a wife: she must wear higab always, never smoking, never drinking alcohol, never any tatoos. He found all of those things in me, and I found all of the things i need in him, alhamdulillah.
Alhamdulillah, the controlling found the controlled. I wish you many years of obedience to your husband
Alhamdulillah, I'm not a dirty kaffir female who smokes, drinks, does drugs, has tattoos and wishes she was a man so that she can control men.
Isnt it in the books of hadith that you follow about calling another muslim a kafir?
quote:Alhamdulillah I'm not a the type of female who hates men so much, that she hates showing her good husband any kind of respect as a man. She always has to tell him what to do and shout at him. She is in denial how much she hates men, and even marries the kind of men she hates the most, Muslim men.
These women hate themselves more than they hate men. I would hate myself too if I was like them.
Thank you again Ahmad for being another strong Muslim man in this world!!
Alhamdulillah you show such tollerance towards others
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Trying to imagine someone wrapping booze around their cleavage. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic