Well Rasol, hold onto your hat! It isn't enough that the media has to dig up this historical defamation each Easter and show it on national television (in the USA) but Paramount has recently announced that they are going to do a remake of this 'great' Hollywood epic.

Well, I wonder who they will cast as the Pharaoh, or his Queen, and the rest of the "Egyptian" folk?

I hope that Hollywood hasn't forgotten that 'Tarzan' was kicked out of Africa (I think his last appearance was in India or South America someplace...)and also, not forgotten the angry demonstration when the Rameses II exhibit toured the states (because he was depicted in illustrations as a European...)or are unaware of the delay in opening of that museaum of natural history because of the way they depicted these early humans as being...

Well, anyway, this should prove very interesting indeed...

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Originally posted by Wally:
As quoted by Rasol:
"Also, everyone has seen the famous (some say nefarious) Hollywood film, The 10 Commandments. Many say that this film has done a great deal of harm in terms of understanding Kemetic history."

Well Rasol, hold onto your hat! It isn't enough that the media has to dig up this historical defamation each Easter and show it on national television (in the USA) but Paramount has recently announced that they are going to do a remake of this 'great' Hollywood epic.

Well, I wonder who they will cast as the Pharaoh, or his Queen, and the rest of the "Egyptian" folk?

I hope that Hollywood hasn't forgotten that 'Tarzan' was kicked out of Africa (I think his last appearance was in India or South America someplace...)and also, not forgotten the angry demonstration when the Rameses II exhibit toured the states (because he was depicted in illustrations as a European...)or are unaware of the delay in opening of that museaum of natural history because of the way they depicted these early humans as being...

Well, anyway, this should prove very interesting indeed...

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Vin Diesal as Ramses II because he looks a little like Yul Brenner. (Hollywood authenticity) Groan.

My opinion is they should find a dark skinned Upper Egyptian actor to play Egyptians. But since Rameses II came from the north from the Delta he might have looked a little more Semetic. Since the Delta since the 12th dyansty had absorbed lots of Asiatic elements.

I hope this movies also brings in the forefront the historical accuracy of the Exodus. We really have no proof that the historical pharoah was Rameses II or that the exodus ever occured.

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I'm not sure if the Exodus even happened but it makes more sense for it to have taken place in the time of Thuthmose III rather than in the 19th dynasty.

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why?

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Of course Ramses II is the second most famous ancient Egyptian behind Tutankamun...

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Originally posted by rasol:
why?

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For one, the original timeline for the exodus is wrong. More recent biblical scholars are placing it in the 18th dynasty. Plus the time of disorder in Palesine described in the Amarna letters to Akhenaten was a perfect time for the Israelites to set the foundation of Israel.

Second, we have no idea exactly why Hatshepsut disappears when Thuthmose becomes Pharoah or why he removed her name from all the monuments. She could have been the princess who found the baby Moses if the bible is correct in the way he was discovered and raised.

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
For one, the original timeline for the exodus is wrong. More recent biblical scholars are placing it in the 18th dynasty. Plus the time of disorder in Palesine described in the Amarna letters to Akhenaten was a perfect time for the Israelites to set the foundation of Israel.

Second, we have no idea exactly why Hatshepsut disappears when Thuthmose becomes Pharoah or why he removed her name from all the monuments. She could have been the princess who found the baby Moses if the bible is correct in the way he was discovered and raised.

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So, was there an order given out to kill the 1st born child of every Hebrew, and if so...
which Pharaoh gave the order?

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Originally posted by ausar:
Don't really feel that people should look at movies as reality. I mean look at the movie like Genghis Khan where John Wanye played a clearly Mongolid chracter despite him being a European. The sad truth is that movies with black or ethnic people does not make money. Hollywood is in the buiness to make money,and not the visualize reality.

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This underlines the racism prevalent in the U.S. This idea that "movies with black or ethnic people" don't make money, is really an excuse to cover up the racism still present in the social life of U.S. Hollywood is mostly controlled by white folks, and these people are doing their part to reinforce the diffusionist tool used in almost all aspects of life by Eurocentric Scholars and White Conservatives. It is part of the promotion of the psychic that "whites are the better race, and hold to torches to all civilization". This notion is implanted into the the psychic of white kids through school. What better way to reinforce this than movies and school books. In the same token, black kids are implanted with the notion that they are the "recievers" of civilization, and to accept that everything white is better! This an overall strategy to maintain white dominance in the economy of the nation, and justify the under-representation of other ethnic groups. This strategy of using psychology acts as a deterrence to potential competition from other ethnic groups. It was the same strategy used by 18th century European scholars to justify the oppression of black people to maintain the economic exploitation of African slaves. Slavery became no longer economically viable, so it was obolished. But the strategy they developed back then is still in place, although it has been modified to avoid the "in your face" style racism. If the "in your face" style racism was in place, it would be accompanied by social unrest, as evident from the past. But if you continue the same strategy in a subtle manner, then it becomes less obvious. People will know that the racism is still going on by examining the obstacles to opportunity still faced by ethnic groups, but it isn't extreme enough to give rise to much larger civil unrest. This is why people like Lefkowitz have an issue with Greek civilization being influenced by Kemetians, and Kemetians being black.
So if white folks don't want to see a movie about the 10 commandments with Black folks as the Egyptians, it is for the reasons I stated above. The same thing goes for the idea that movies with a strong Black cast or Colored cast aren't bankable. Think about it...do people outside the U.S. and the West, object to the idea of having Black and Colored people depicting the Ancient Egyptian? I think not. But Hollywood movies are marketed in those regions. So Hollywood racism is really about satisfying the status quo in the West!

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Originally posted by supercar:
This underlines the racism prevalent in the U.S. This idea that "movies with black or ethnic people" don't make money, is really an excuse to cover up the racism still present in the social life of U.S. Hollywood is mostly controlled by white folks, and these people are doing their part to reinforce the diffusionist tool used in almost all aspects of life by Eurocentric Scholars and White Conservatives. It is part of the promotion of the psychic that "whites are the better race, and hold to torches to all civilization". This notion is implanted into the the psychic of white kids through school. What better way to reinforce this than movies and school books. In the same token, black kids are implanted with the notion that they are the "recievers" of civilization, and to accept that everything white is better! This an overall strategy to maintain white dominance in the economy of the nation, and justify the under-representation of other ethnic groups. This strategy of using psychology acts as a deterrence to potential competition from other ethnic groups. It was the same strategy used by 18th century European scholars to justify the oppression of black people to maintain the economic exploitation of African slaves. Slavery became no longer economically viable, so it was obolished. But the strategy they developed back then is still in place, although it has been modified to avoid the "in your face" style racism. If the "in your face" style racism was in place, it would be accompanied by social unrest, as evident from the past. But if you continue the same strategy in a subtle manner, then it becomes less obvious. People will know that the racism is still going on by examining the obstacles to opportunity still faced by ethnic groups, but it isn't extreme enough to give rise to much larger civil unrest. This is why people like Lefkowitz have an issue with Greek civilization being influenced by Kemetians, and Kemetians being black.
So if white folks don't want to see a movie about the 10 commandments with Black folks as the Egyptians, it is for the reasons I stated above. The same thing goes for the idea that movies with a strong Black cast or Colored cast aren't bankable. Think about it...do people outside the U.S. and the West, object to the idea of having Black and Colored people depicting the Ancient Egyptian? I think not. But Hollywood movies are marketed in those regions. So Hollywood racism is really about satisfying the status quo in the West!

I drifted away from the topic, but I just thought I had to a make comment on that!

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I agree. Movies are not "innocent." They are very powerful tools of propaganda.

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Originally posted by ausar:
My opinion is they should find a dark skinned Upper Egyptian actor to play Egyptians. But since Rameses II came from the north from the Delta he might have looked a little more Semetic. Since the Delta since the 12th dyansty had absorbed lots of Asiatic elements.

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Hasn't it been said that Seti I was black and inter-married...which is why Ramses would have possibly been mixed? I don't know if it's true or not.

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Originally posted by Supercar:This strategy of using psychology acts as a deterrence to potential competition from other ethnic groups. It was the same strategy used by 18th century European scholars to justify the oppression of black people to maintain the economic exploitation of African slaves. Slavery became no longer economically viable, so it was obolished. But the strategy they developed back then is still in place, although it has been modified to avoid the "in your face" style racism. If the "in your face" style racism was in place, it would be accompanied by social unrest, as evident from the past. But if you continue the same strategy in a subtle manner, then it becomes less obvious.

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Exactly!!! I believe things are generally better than they used to be....that's obvious. But there's still racism hidden between the lines when it comes to things like Hollywood and Ancient Egypt.

I also agree with Rasol, movies are a VERY powerful tool of persuasion that shouldn't be weilded lightly. I thank directors like Spike Lee and John Singleton and Antoine Fugua who are spear-heading this new movement in Hollywood.

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
The question is would most whites want to see a version of the Ten Commandments with a mostly black cast playing the Egyptians? The answer is no

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Thought Writes:

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Originally posted by ausar:
The sad truth is that movies with black or ethnic people does not make money. Hollywood is in the buiness to make money,and not the visualize reality.

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Thought Writes:

Thought Writes:

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I disagree. Will Smith's "I-Robot" clocked $52 million in its opening weekend!

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Yes,because the movie was a remake of the classic sci-fi film. Will Smith is one black actor that has reached the comnfort zone for most Americans. However,I-Robot was not exclusively a black cast. Try to compare all white drams gross rate times the all-black cast gross rate.

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

Is this conclusion based upon some sort of survey or something less scientific?

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Originally posted by Ausar
Do you honestly believe an all-black cast with an AE theme would go well in America?

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By Kolongi

Remember The Times

See Michael Jackson's video here http://www.godamongdirectors.com/singleton/remember.html

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Originally posted by ausar:
Do you honestly believe an all-black cast with an AE theme would go well in America?

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Thought Writes:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
The sad truth is that Hollywood is reflecting society's attitudes and not vice versa...

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Thought Writes:

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Originally posted by homeylu:
[QUOTE]
Yes I do, everything does not have to be about what "white america" wants to see.

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Thought Writes:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
Top 100 highest grossing movies of all time
I didn't see any movies with mostly black casts on there...

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Thought Writes:

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

But how can that be an accurate observation if a Black period piece has never been made! How does one know what societies attitude is if the waters have never been tested properly? Quality is the key to any Black historical epic.

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I hope the waters are tested someday but Hollywood is pretty much how I described it. It's not uncommon for black screenwriters who write roles with black characters to have to change the race of the characters for the movie to get made. This is the way things will be until minorities have the means to produce their own big budget flicks.

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
This is the way things will be until minorities have the means to produce their own big budget flicks.

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Thought Writes:

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
Top 100 highest grossing movies of all time http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

I didn't see any movies with mostly black casts on there...

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I'm sorry but you're a poor excuse for a brother. Really!

You could have just as easily found Black movies that were successful based on were they "profitable". There have been "profitable" low budget films, and high budget films that were not so profitable. So what if a movie grossed 500 million if it took 495 million to make, how about a movie grossing 10 million, that took 5 million to make? Guess what, they both come out with a 5 million dollar profit! And thats what counts in the end, the profits!

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Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:

I don't doubt your statistics, what I am questioning is the REASON why films with Black leads have not done so well.

Well several films with black leads have done extrmely well. Actors like Eddie Murphy, Will Smith, and Denzel Washington have been in several high grossing movies but they always lead majority white casts. Would they be able to have the same success leading mostly black casts? Highly unlikly even when the film is good quality...

I submit that the answer is complex and multifaceted. Part of this answer does indeed lie in historical racism. I think a more RECENT reason is simply that Black films are generally of low quality. To many "How Highs" and not enough "Training Days".

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There have been excellent black films over the years from the Color Purple to Eve's Bayou. These films got critically acclaimed but they weren't huge blockbuster successes. And since when does good quality translate into greater box office success? I've seen plenty of bad movies that managed to gross over 100 million.

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
There have been excellent black films over the years from the Color Purple to Eve's Bayou. These films got critically acclaimed but they weren't huge blockbuster successes.

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Thought Writes:

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Originally posted by homeylu:
I'm sorry but you're a poor excuse for a brother. Really!

You could have just as easily found Black movies that were successful based on were they "profitable". There have been "profitable" low budget films, and high budget films that were not so profitable. So what if a movie grossed 500 million if it took 495 million to make, how about a movie grossing 10 million, that took 5 million to make? Guess what, they both come out with a 5 million dollar profit! And thats what counts in the end, the profits!

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
It could happen if an Oprah Winfrey or Denzel Washington took on the heavy financial burden to finance the movie but I just can't any major movie companies willing to kick out 70 million to do a movie about ancient Egypt with a mostly black cast. Both Oprah and Denzel have complained in the past about black Americans not coming out with strong enough support for quality black movies that they produced(Beloved, Antwone Fisher). They might be less inclined to spend their own money again...

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Thought Writes:

On September 27th, there will be the grand debut on Broadway of "The Ten Commandments" - the musical! (I am NOT making this up) It will star..Val Kilmer as Moses. Yeah, you know the Moses, the one in the Koran whom God proves himself by turning Moses' hand white...So guess who'll probably play Moses in the movie...

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Originally posted by supercar:
I have been reading posts about the reason for many unsucessful Black movies being due to their poor quality, lack of proper funding or marketing! I don't know, but this sounds like saying that Black entertainers or producers are incompetent!

[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 21 July 2004).]

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No one is saying black film makers are incompetent. The problem is that there are so few blacks with the means to produce and market big budget movie. Halle Berry as Hatshepsut, and Will Smith as Thuthmose III might sell to various demographic audiences but I just don't see a movie like this being made anytime soon...

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Originally posted by neo*geo:
No one is saying black film makers are incompetent. The problem is that there are so few blacks with the means to produce and market big budget movie. Halle Berry as Hatshepsut, and Will Smith as Thuthmose III might sell to various demographic audiences but I just don't see a movie like this being made anytime soon...

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Do you honestly believe an all-black cast with an AE theme would go well in America?

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Originally posted by trexmaster:
Perhaps it may. However, I think the problem is that a lot of anti-Afrocentrics would attack it for being historically inaccurate and "politically correct"...

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I say let them think that. Besides, how can they criticize a movie based on their anti-Afrocentrism, if such a movie has nothing to do with the involvement of Afrocentrics. The onus is really on them to prove that such a depiction is historically inaccurate. Better yet, how about a movie with an all modern Upper Egyptian caste...would that also be considered historically inaccurate and "politically correct"!

But the Egyptians are not the only group of people that moviemakers usually cast as white people. The Hebrews are almost always white as well. In reality, they would be racially closer to tan-skinned Arabs than Germanics, that's for sure.

BTW, if the moviemakers cast African-Americans to be the AEs (I doubt they'd go through all the trouble to get poorly known, relatively unexperienced Upper Egyptians), are there any particular actors you'd like to see in certain roles?

[This message has been edited by trexmaster (edited 22 July 2004).]

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Originally posted by supercar:
Better yet, how about a movie with an all modern Upper Egyptian caste...would that also be considered historically inaccurate and "politically correct"!

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Wont seriously happen since there are so few Egyptian actors in the US. I'm not sure if there are many in Europe. Maybe they could be imported. The only groups that I can forsee having a problem with Egyptians being played by black American actors are Egyptologists like Zahi Hawass but I don't see people actually listening to criticism like that when they have been silent on whites playing the roles of Egyptians.

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Originally posted by ausar:

My opinion is they should find a dark skinned Upper Egyptian actor to play Egyptians.

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"They" should find ALL Egyptians to play ancient Egyptians and not only a dark skinned Egyptians!!!

Ahmed Zaki(famous egyptian actor):

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Originally posted by Ayazid:

"They" should find ALL Egyptians to play ancient Egyptians and not only a dark skinned Egyptians!!!

Ahmed Zaki(famous egyptian actor):

[img] ]http://www.videohat.com/VideoHAT_Photos/April2001/ahmedzakiAhmedzakiphoto4.jpg[/img]

[img] ]http://www.art-tv.net/Images/ShowsImages/MovieChannel/2369/aldaraga_gallery2_big.jpg [/img]

[img] ]http://www.egyptdailynews.com/My%20Webs/edailypics/271964_P1%5B1%5D.gif[/img]

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Originally posted by trexmaster:
I thought we were going for realism here, and most mainstream AE's were Negroid with some Caucasoid blood...but I suppose some Arabic-Egyptians may make good Hebrews.

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I am sorry but your "opinion" is so stupid, outrageous and ignorant that I am absolutely surprised and shocked ... do u really think that Egyptians 3000 years ago have looked like contemporary Nubians or "better" like you African Americans??? And modern arabic speaking Egyptians have nothing to do with them??? Its ridiculous!!! Then, Upper Egyptians may not make them because they are "Arabic-Egyptians"!!!

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Originally posted by Ayazid:
I am sorry but your "opinion" is so stupid, outrageous and ignorant that I am absolutely surprised and shocked ... do u really think that Egyptians 3000 years ago have looked like contemporary Nubians or "better" like you African Americans??? And modern arabic speaking Egyptians have nothing to do with them??? Its ridiculous!!! Then, Upper Egyptians may not make them because they are "Arabic-Egyptians"!!!

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1) For one thing, I am a pale-skinned, blue-eyed, blond-haired Caucasian male, NOT an African-American (although I am of American nationality).

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Originally posted by trexmaster:
They weren't pure-blooded blacks like the Nubians of the time, but the majority of them weren't really "Arabic".

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Dont be foolish please ... in that context.

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Originally posted by Ayazid:
Dont be foolish please ... in that context.

[This message has been edited by Ayazid (edited 22 July 2004).]

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Are you saying that it's foolish to say that most AEs were NOT Arabic?

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Originally posted by trexmaster:
They weren't pure-blooded blacks like the Nubians of the time, but the majority of them weren't really "Arabic".

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