quote:Originally posted by Keino: I think the flying machines are real in terms of innovative IDEAS. AE were very mathemitically inclined people who liked design and building geomerically astounding statues and Pyramids. I think the flying machines were probably machines/tools that they thought of to make their daily lives better. Just how if we were to get inside of the developmental labs of most industrialized nations we would find designs of "future" machines/tools that we think would make our lives easier. If they actually did make these machines we would have found some remains of them by now.
However, if there was a thriving nation that existed 40,000 years ago with the same technology that we have today and along comes a devastating natural disaster (like an asteriod collision) hit that place and with wiped out 50% of live on earth with it; it would be hard to find remains of that place. But this is not the case with AE and I'm just projecting and being hypothetical.
I think that the electric flashlight is symbolic. In the scene it appears that they are worshiping and being submissive to the pharoh....The "snake in the light" seems like a sword with a snake engraved in the center and the Pharoh is showing his power and reverence that he has!
I'm no expert obvioulsy but that how it looks to me. Until we find batteries then I will begin to think otherwise.
I met Dr. Clemmons, the proponent of this theory (Kites were used to raise obelisks), a few years ago at an ARCE meeting, and honestly wasn't quite sure at the time if she was a crackpot or not. She had some reputable scientists working on her theories with her, though, and was kind enough to give me one of her "Pyramidiots" plastic pocket protectors.
posted
The egyptian locals built the pyramids. When their land near the nile flooded, they went of their own free will to help to build the pyramids and temples. Call it a national contribution. There is no evidence of aliens or slave labor. As for the Jews, who is to say that they couldn't have been in Egypt for a period of time? The thing about the bible is that parts of it are fictional like the story of Noah. However peoples views of the world were only what they knew, and Mesopetamia was known to flood. Every culture has their own mythologies, but that doesn't mean that the whole bible, or all hebrew or muslim text is also ficticious. Perhaps it is a mistake to think of the bible or torah or koran as one book. they are made up of many, and each have a differant perpose.
Posts: 13 | From: Plymouth,NH,United States | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
keep in mind that i am just recently 18 , and a freshman in college, so if I am wrong about anything or a bit naive feel free to educate me, although I like to hear others Views on topics as a student I like to know Fact so those would be more greatly appreciated on my road to insight and discovery
Posts: 13 | From: Plymouth,NH,United States | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Wally: [b]The reasons for irrational fantasies
The main reason that irrational fantasies persist is that humans tend to view recent or current events as being real, as part of their current existance, anything beyond that becomes a fantasy, and anything's "possible."
For example, if you told someone that in the 1950's people lived to be 500 years, or that this guy raised a piece of wood and parted a sea and people walked through it..., people would know that you were crazy!
But talk about something farther removed from an individuals own immediate reality, and all things, even the most ridiculous, become possible...
[This message has been edited by Wally (edited 06 November 2004).][/B]
I understand where you are coming from with this, but in many diferant cultures there are "miracles" performed it is a matter of faith. To tear apart that and to pass it off as crazyness hurts this idea. I think that it is safe to say that a lot of us are here because we like the idea of studying civilizations, and cultures. Like the egyptians the hebrews and early christians, have a rich history, and mythology, as well as text that were worshiped as the word of their God or Gods. To tear down the Hebrew or christian belifes is also like tearing apart the Egyptian beliefs, amoung others that have similar background in history. I just think there has been to much of that going on in here, and that Respect should be shown for equally intreguing and still prevelant cultures and practices.
Posts: 13 | From: Plymouth,NH,United States | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
supercar
unregistered
posted
quote: lizabeth77 As for the Jews, who is to say that they couldn't have been in Egypt for a period of time?
You are doing the same thing as Orionix. Who made any claim about “Jews” not being in Egypt? Who are you arguing against? Even so, they weren’t described as “Jews” by the folks of that era, even though modern day Jews claim these immigrants as their ancestors.
quote:lizabeth77: The thing about the bible is that parts of it are fictional like the story of Noah. However peoples views of the world were only what they knew, and Mesopetamia was known to flood. Every culture has their own mythologies, but that doesn't mean that the whole bible, or all hebrew or muslim text is also ficticious.
Again, you comment here is a red herring, considering nobody said that each and everything in the Bible is fictitious. However, you can’t take the Bible or any religious script as absolute fact. I am sure you are not suggesting that scrutiny isn’t necessary, when looking at actual history, because that is what Kemetian civilization is. If concrete evidence left behind by the ancient Nile Valley folks contradicts what any religious script claims, should we then throw it out, because it may hurt someone’s feelings?
quote:lizabeth77: Perhaps it is a mistake to think of the bible or torah or koran as one book. they are made up of many, and each have a differant perpose.
Another red herring. Who assumed that religious texts are the same? Certain accounts of events in the Bible, Torah or Kuran are same, if not similar, yet they contradict one another other times. In this case, who will you call a liar, without hurting someone’s feelings?
quote: lizabeth77: To tear apart that and to pass it off as crazyness hurts this idea. I think that it is safe to say that a lot of us are here because we like the idea of studying civilizations, and cultures.
Nobody is here to tear any faith; just emphasizing the need to look at actual history from a different perspective. You can’t simply ignore concrete evidence and seek the truth by closing your mind, because you are afraid that you might loose your faith. I don’t know about you, but I am not here to simply study civilizations and cultures, but to put history into its actual context and seek the truth. That requires being open to the idea of scrutinizing…
quote:lizabeth77: Like the egyptians the hebrews and early christians, have a rich history, and mythology, as well as text that were worshiped as the word of their God or Gods. To tear down the Hebrew or christian belifes is also like tearing apart the Egyptian beliefs, amoung others that have similar background in history. I just think there has been to much of that going on in here, and that Respect should be shown for equally intreguing and still prevelant cultures and practices.
How is analyzing what Kemetians left behind in its proper context, about tearing its history and how does that relate to Hebrew or Christian beliefs? I mean, were Kemetians Christians or Hebrews? Studying history in its proper context, can only be an insult to someone who doesn’t seek the truth!
[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 07 November 2004).]
posted
I wasn't trying to say that they were the same or that anyone was infact perposly tearing anything down. I do think however, that in the midst of trying to show the egyptian truths, some people have gotten a bit carried away with the idea that these things are fiction. It is really iffy for some people. I don't happen to be one of those people, but I can see where it was getting kind of borderline, and I thought that I would just mention it so that no one was offended. I think that boards are a great way to connect and talk with people, but there comes a point where people need to be a bit sensative to the audience. When you are talking about race or religion you can potentialy cross those lines. It was just a reminder to play nice! Posts: 13 | From: Plymouth,NH,United States | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
supercar
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by lizabeth77: I wasn't trying to say that they were the same or that anyone was infact perposly tearing anything down. I do think however, that in the midst of trying to show the egyptian truths, some people have gotten a bit carried away with the idea that these things are fiction. It is really iffy for some people. I don't happen to be one of those people, but I can see where it was getting kind of borderline, and I thought that I would just mention it so that no one was offended. I think that boards are a great way to connect and talk with people, but there comes a point where people need to be a bit sensative to the audience. When you are talking about race or religion you can potentialy cross those lines. It was just a reminder to play nice!
Well, it is not the question of crossing lines or making people feel good, but it is about establishing facts. For those who can't handle the truth, this is probably the last place they want to be.
posted
For the sake of not turning this into a flame war over religous beliefs...let's just say that we all have different opinions when it comes to religon, especially the Bible. I have my beliefs that will never change, and you guys have yours. But this is an Ancient Egyptian forum so it's really off-topic to talk about this subject here. This is a sensitive topic to some people and I can see where it's going.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
supercar
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion: For the sake of not turning this into a flame war over religous beliefs...let's just say that we all have different opinions when it comes to religon, especially the Bible. I have my beliefs that will never change, and you guys have yours. But this is an Ancient Egyptian forum so it's really off-topic to talk about this subject here. This is a sensitive topic to some people and I can see where it's going.
It was never my intention, nor is it now my intention to leave the topic at hand, concerning Ancient Egypt. If somebody wants to use religious texts as evidence in contradiction to known factual information about Ancient Egypt, I will not hesitate to point it out accordingly. Again, my only agenda here is to stick with facts, backed by real evidence as much as possible. It is important to pay attention to the title of the thread; this includes religious mythology concerning AE. Of course, if someone chooses to ignore facts, that is totally on him/her. However, don't expect others to keep silent, when questionable material is presented as irrefutable proof!
[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 08 November 2004).]
posted
Ditto the previous couple posts. Religion is not history, and history cannot be made to fit into relgious doctrine. This goes for any history and any religion.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
supercar
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by rasol: Ditto the previous couple posts. Religion is not history, and history cannot be made to fit into relgious doctrine. This goes for any history and any religion.
Nicely put! So now, the next ridiculous fantasy please...
posted
Take another look at a ancient egyptian fantasy.you could email this faker below.
News Opinions Features Sports Eastman Arts and Entertainment Comics Photography
Calendar Search Archive Publishing Policy General Information Ad Rates My Account Letters to the Editor Forums
National News World News Sports News Technology News Wired News Entertainment
The Hive RED UR Home Page Democrat and Chronicle NY Times Washington Post CNN
Current Issue: Thursday, November 4, 2004
Home > Opinions Cleopatra of mixed lineage By Rob Wittmann Published: Thursday, February 27, 2003 Article Tools: Page 1 of 1
The Feb. 20 story "Expo unites UR and community" stated that Cleopatra was of black ancestry.
This is a claim that has been popular with many Afrocentric scholars since the '60s. What is interesting about this claim is not its merit, of which it has none, but the degree to which it has taken hold and been accepted by so many in academia.
This revisionist claim, inspired by the desire to improve the self-esteem of African-Americans, is usually accompanied by a litany of other similar claims, ascribing black ethnicity to people as varied as Beethoven, Buddha, Hannibal, Jesus, Moses and Mohammed. While I abhor Eurocentrism and support the efforts of scholars to purge the remnants of Eurocentrism from the pages of America's textbooks, I equally abhor the tendency among some of them to replace one set of ethnocentric myths for another.
Cleopatra was the last ruling monarch of the Ptolemaic Dynasty -- a Greco-Macedonian colonial government installed after the breakup of Alexander the Great's empire, which had included Egypt. The Ptolemies were among three other Greco-Macedonian colonial governments in the region, along with the Seleucids and the Macedonians proper. They were corrupt, abusive ethnocentric autocrats that tried to force Hellenistic culture on people as varied as the Egyptians, Hebrews and Arabs.
Needless to say, native Egyptians regarded the Ptolemies as foreigners. The Ptolemaic Pharaohs, interested in keeping the throne in the family line, continued the incestuous Pharaonic practice of sibling marriage, which ensured not only that the family blood line persevered, but also their ethnicity.
Thus there can be no argument that Cleopatra was of mixed racial lineage. By ascribing black racial qualities to Cleopatra, people minimize and cloud the cultural history of Egypt.
Even if Cleopatra were not Greek, the issue would still be moot, as ancient Egypt was, for the majority of its existence, populated by people who were olive-skinned and Mediterranean, not sub-Saharan and black. This ethnicity encompasses the peoples of Southern Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. While the Egyptians were ethnically Mediterranean, their culture came from the West Asian Mesopotamians, Sumerians and Babylonians.
From them, the Egyptians acquired writing, religion, irrigation and mathematics. Certainly there were black influences in Egyptian culture and some black Pharaohs as well, but these came late in Egypt's development. Most notably, the Nubians, a black African people enslaved by the Egyptians, rose up and conquered Egypt during the 25th Dynasty of the New Kingdom. However, many historians regard this period as the waning of Egyptian Civilization, as the internal upheavals caused by the said invasion paved the path for the subsequent invasions of Assyrians, Persians, Greco-Macedonians and Romans. It would not be until well after the Arab conquests that true Egyptians again ruled Egypt. That is not to say that there were not powerful, black African kingdoms, as there were many, such as Nubia, Ghana, Mali and Songhai. Egypt, however, was not one of them.
That being said, many people, such as Jesus, Mohammed and Hannibal, who are falsely portrayed as black by revisionist, Afrocentric historians are ethnically Mediterranean. Merely having olive skin and dark hair does not make one black, and classifying the hundreds of millions of people in the region today as such disregards their unique cultural and ethno-linguistic traditions.
Despite the publishing of many books, most notably "Not Out of Africa: How Afrocentrism Became an Excuse to Teach Myth as History" and "Black Athena Revisited," both by Wellesley College classics professor Mary Lefkowitz, there seems to be a widespread misconception among Americans, black and white, that what is African is black and what is black is African. If one were to truly study African ethnography, as done by Jared Diamond in his book, "Guns Germs & Steel," one would learn that while the majority of Africans are black, almost 40 percent of Africans are of Arab or Mediterranean descent. Africa is far more diverse than the Afrocentrists would have us believe.
It seems that ignorance of world history is a universal American trait, shared by many, regardless of race and ethnicity. If we are to live in peace with the world's people we must truly understand their history and not rely on half-baked, emotionally-laden, ideologically-inspired sloganeering, such as that tendered by Afrocentric scholars.
Wittmann is a member of the class of 2001 and can be reached at rwittmann@campustimes.org.
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 09 November 2004).]
LOL! This was before "Nefertiti Resurrected" mind you. I would like to see Whitmann's reaction to the facial reconstruction of that the mummy believed to be that of the lovely African Queen. What an idiot!
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kenndo: [B]Take another look at a ancient egyptian fantasy.you could email this faker below.
News Opinions Features Sports Eastman Arts and Entertainment Comics Photography
Calendar Search Archive Publishing Policy General Information Ad Rates My Account Letters to the Editor Forums
National News World News Sports News Technology News Wired News Entertainment
The Hive RED UR Home Page Democrat and Chronicle NY Times Washington Post CNN
Current Issue: Thursday, November 4, 2004
Home > Opinions Cleopatra of mixed lineage By Rob Wittmann Published: Thursday, February 27, 2003 Article Tools: Page 1 of 1
The Feb. 20 story "Expo unites UR and community" stated that Cleopatra was of black ancestry.
This is a claim that has been popular with many Afrocentric scholars since the '60s. What is interesting about this claim is not its merit, of which it has none, but the degree to which it has taken hold and been accepted by so many in academia.
This revisionist claim, inspired by the desire to improve the self-esteem of African-Americans, is usually accompanied by a litany of other similar claims, ascribing black ethnicity to people as varied as Beethoven, Buddha, Hannibal, Jesus, Moses and Mohammed. While I abhor Eurocentrism and support the efforts of scholars to purge the remnants of Eurocentrism from the pages of America's textbooks, I equally abhor the tendency among some of them to replace one set of ethnocentric myths for another.
Cleopatra was the last ruling monarch of the Ptolemaic Dynasty -- a Greco-Macedonian colonial government installed after the breakup of Alexander the Great's empire, which had included Egypt. The Ptolemies were among three other Greco-Macedonian colonial governments in the region, along with the Seleucids and the Macedonians proper. They were corrupt, abusive ethnocentric autocrats that tried to force Hellenistic culture on people as varied as the Egyptians, Hebrews and Arabs.
Needless to say, native Egyptians regarded the Ptolemies as foreigners. The Ptolemaic Pharaohs, interested in keeping the throne in the family line, continued the incestuous Pharaonic practice of sibling marriage, which ensured not only that the family blood line persevered, but also their ethnicity.
Thus there can be no argument that Cleopatra was of mixed racial lineage. By ascribing black racial qualities to Cleopatra, people minimize and cloud the cultural history of Egypt.
Even if Cleopatra were not Greek, the issue would still be moot, as ancient Egypt was, for the majority of its existence, populated by people who were olive-skinned and Mediterranean, not sub-Saharan and black. This ethnicity encompasses the peoples of Southern Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. While the Egyptians were ethnically Mediterranean, their culture came from the West Asian Mesopotamians, Sumerians and Babylonians.
From them, the Egyptians acquired writing, religion, irrigation and mathematics. Certainly there were black influences in Egyptian culture and some black Pharaohs as well, but these came late in Egypt's development. Most notably, the Nubians, a black African people enslaved by the Egyptians, rose up and conquered Egypt during the 25th Dynasty of the New Kingdom. However, many historians regard this period as the waning of Egyptian Civilization, as the internal upheavals caused by the said invasion paved the path for the subsequent invasions of Assyrians, Persians, Greco-Macedonians and Romans. It would not be until well after the Arab conquests that true Egyptians again ruled Egypt. That is not to say that there were not powerful, black African kingdoms, as there were many, such as Nubia, Ghana, Mali and Songhai. Egypt, however, was not one of them.
That being said, many people, such as Jesus, Mohammed and Hannibal, who are falsely portrayed as black by revisionist, Afrocentric historians are ethnically Mediterranean. Merely having olive skin and dark hair does not make one black, and classifying the hundreds of millions of people in the region today as such disregards their unique cultural and ethno-linguistic traditions.
Despite the publishing of many books, most notably "Not Out of Africa: How Afrocentrism Became an Excuse to Teach Myth as History" and "Black Athena Revisited," both by Wellesley College classics professor Mary Lefkowitz, there seems to be a widespread misconception among Americans, black and white, that what is African is black and what is black is African. If one were to truly study African ethnography, as done by Jared Diamond in his book, "Guns Germs & Steel," one would learn that while the majority of Africans are black, almost 40 percent of Africans are of Arab or Mediterranean descent. Africa is far more diverse than the Afrocentrists would have us believe.
It seems that ignorance of world history is a universal American trait, shared by many, regardless of race and ethnicity. If we are to live in peace with the world's people we must truly understand their history and not rely on half-baked, emotionally-laden, ideologically-inspired sloganeering, such as that tendered by Afrocentric scholars.
Wittmann is a member of the class of 2001 and can be reached at rwittmann@campustimes.org.
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic