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Well I'm no Egyptian let alone a Fellah, but from what Ausar has told me there are several customs:
Cirucumcision is performed as a rite of passage for boys into adulthood.
The women perform mourning rituals such as certain wailing songs in funerary events.
Certain pharaonic festivals like the Opet and Sed survive in modern 'Christian' or 'Muslim' holidays to celebrate saints or other. For example, people would put out food or have picnics in cemeteries to honor the dead.
Zar rituals are performed usually presided by women in which a woman would supposedly be possessed by a spirit and go into a trance in which they dance etc.
Posts: 26258 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Sorry I have been busy for the last few days. Anyway, what Djehuti wrote is what folk customs still persist in rural areas of Egypt.
Another one that Djehuti left out is el Sebeou[the seven] to where seven days after a child is born a type of celebration happens. The infant is place on a sieve and usually the mother steps over the child seven times.
The funerary traditions is usually 40 days of mourning and within the forty days people visit the grave and give offering to the poor in the name of the deceased. The occurance is repeated every religious festival and on the date the person died. The 40 days is connected back to how many days it usually took to mummify the dead.
In the beleifs of rural Egyptians usually everybody is born with a qarina,shadow and akht or akhi. Usually an akhi for females and a akht for males. The Qarin is like the exact double of the person. Many rural Egyptians also believe in a underworld filled with afreet usually associated with departed souls.
The Moulid or Saints birthdays were probably first started around the Fatimid and some have ancient Egyptian origins and some are fairly new festivals. The rural Egyptians took these festivals and modified them with their own traditions.
Other survivals are mostly attached to females trying to prevent barreness and ensure fertility. Often rural women will go to temples,saint shrines or rub themselves with ancient objects to ensure fertility.
You also have traditions of people using magic for good or malicious purposes. For instance people often make a wax sculpture of somebody and melt or make clay figurines with people's name on it and break it. Often if an unwanted guest appears a clay pot is broken after they leave to ensure they never come back.
Nubians further down the Nile have about the same customs as Sa3eedi except their burial traditions are somewhat different.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Most of the costums that Ausar is talking about is basically practiced by many other africans as i have witnessed that the Zar rituals are practiced threw out the horn of AFrica all the way to India. I have noticed as well that the mourning rites are also practice by Jews and Muslims for 40 days and the sounds of mourning are different than the sounds of say joy is the Illel. NOt all the customs are from ancient Egypt alot of them are customs from the Arabs.
Other survivals are mostly attached to females trying to prevent barreness and ensure fertility. Often rural women will go to temples,saint shrines or rub themselves with ancient objects to ensure fertility.
The Above was quoted by Ausar but this custom is very different in my village women use frankincess and Myrr as well as Palm leaves that they set on the floor and the women gather together without men or children and sing songs of fertility.
One other thing that Ausar forgot is that once a baby is born on the Seven day he or she is given Khole i forget what it is called in English but i think its a black Mascera or Eye liner u see alot of egyptian youths and even Pharoahs with there eye lashes darkened and a extra line gets put at the end of the eye this custom goes back to Ancient egypt
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:I have noticed as well that the mourning rites are also practice by Jews and Muslims for 40 days and the sounds of mourning are different than the sounds of say joy is the Illel. NOt all the customs are from ancient Egypt alot of them are customs from the Arabs
Which customs are from the Arabs? There is no such counterpart in any part of the Arabian peninsula.
Some Jews might pratice the 40 day ritual only because they were Egyptian Jews. I seriously doubt Sephardic or any other Oriental Jews pratice this.
When I say mourning I say it loosely because most Egyptian funerals are more festival than somber and you will sometimes see women dancing and laughing.
The only customs that has disernable Arab origins is that of the evil eye which is fairly universal and in Mediterranean lands. As in ancient Egypt modern Egyptian carry around a blue stone amulet and paint their houses blue. Blue in ancient Egypt was used for the eye of Heru.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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It would be interesting if some of you could tell us about historical events and periods that prevented Egyptians to keep practicizing most of their ancient culture.
-------------------- Federico Da Montefeltro Posts: 203 | Registered: Dec 2005
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Pax, It seems Arabization was strong enough that by force of arms, there was substitution of power, where the less fortuante had great enough numbers to overcome the oppressor (officials and government institutions) that if even the Phaoronic structre remained, any remnants were crushed by the new political structure of Islam! The only people who would carry on or were part of the pre-Islamic thrust would be the fellahin or I presume, Saaedi. Their condition appears to have not been changed drastically and they were the root of the Empire that were often ignored as they stayed close to the earth! The people of Alexandria and other metropolitan area often welcomed the invaders and mixed with them so they will naturally be more accepting of the power change while the delta will be the forgotten desolate outpost where people will stay away from! just a rational view, I think.
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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quote:When I say mourning I say it loosely because most Egyptian funerals are more festival than somber and you will sometimes see women dancing and laughing.
posted
Africa were do u think Most Traditions of Muslims Christians & Jews come from were do u think these principles and were do u think there Tenets come from above the Clouds. All of these religions are a copy of the Ancient egyptian religion. Even the Customs of Saeedis comes from the Twa/Ptah aka Pygmies.
Africa if u want to know how similar Christianity and Judaism is to Ancient Egyptian Religion u should read Gerald Masseys Book Egypt the Light of the World in this book he shows u the customs and signs of ancient egypt and how the major Western Religions have copied it almost word for word.
The Customs of Saeedi Egyptians are not only found in Egypt but all threw africa.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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I know that circumcision is imported from African culture and also many patriarchal traditions in Arab culture and Jewish culture that is almost a copy of many pastoralist societies in Africa...I heard that ancient Hebrews were pastoralists..."Jesus is my shepherd"
The Nomadic Lifestyle of the Ancient Hebrews By: Jeff A. Benner
Many Biblical characters, such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David and others, lived a nomadic lifestyle. A nomad lived in tents and traveled from location to location in search of water and pastures for their livestock.
The Wilderness The home of the nomad was the wilderness often dry and arid but with an occasional oasis, river, water basin and pastures. The nomad was at much home in the wilderness as we are in our own environment. He also knew the area which he traveled in very well. He knew where all the water sources were, where pastures were located at different times of the year and all the landmarks which directed him on his travels.
Rain is the most important element to the nomad as without it, he, his family, his flocks and herds cannot survive. Each area received rain at different times of the year and in different locations. It was the chief's responsibility to ensure that they were at the right places at the right times. The rains may be locale providing water and pasture but may also be very distant. These distant rains would flood the rivers causing them to overflow and watering the grounds near the rivers within their area of travels.
Possessions The nomad lived a very simple life and because of their constant travels they could not carry a great amount of supplies and equipment. His major possession is the tent made of goat hair, the poles, stakes and ropes for supporting the tent, a curtain to divide the tent into two parts (male and female sides) and a carpet for the floor. The nomads wealth was measured by the size of his flocks and herds which supplied him with most of his needs including milk, meat, skin, hair for tents, horns for trumpets and liquid containers and many other odds and ends.
His cooking supplies and equipment consisted of bags made of skins for carrying food reserves such as grains and dried fruits, a few utensils such as spoons, knives and bowls and a grinding mill for making flour out of grains. He also carried some harvesting supplies such as sickles and mattocks to gather crops when available. For defense he also carried weapons such as the bow and arrow, spears and knives. Many of his weapons were used for other purposes such as butchering knives, mattocks and the tent poles which were sharp at one end for spears.
Family A nomadic camp consisted of about 25 to 50 members. Any less and it would be difficult to protect the family and any more would be difficult to feed. Usually the oldest member of the family was the head, or chief, of the clan. The remainder of the clan would consist of his brothers, sons, nephews and grandsons as well as their wives. Each clan was an independent entity with the chief as judge and ruler. He had the ultimate authority in all manners including where they go, discipline, management of the flocks and herds and the daily tasks of the camp.
When a clan became to large to support it was divided and separated with all of the clans belonging to one tribe. The name of the tribe was generally that of the original family patriarch and each clan carried the name of its original patriarch.
Foods and Medicines The nomads diet consisted of breads, fruits (when available), milk and cheese and meat. Grains, such as barley and wheat, were gathered and ground into a flour and mixed with water and placed on hot rocks to make bread. Some of the fruits available were grapes, pomegranates, olives and dates. These were often dried for later use and sometimes mixed with flour for a cake type bread. Milk was taken from the sheep and goats and also used to make cheese. Animals from the flock were occasionally butchered especially for special events such as when guests arrive but, not on a regular basis.
Olives were not only used as a food source but for medicinal purposes as well. It was drunk for stomach and intestinal problems and applied to wounds as an antiseptic. The fat of animals were made into a soap for washing.
Social Activities The men would often gather together, usually at meal times, to discuss past events, needs, locations and other details of operating the camp. The women gathered together to prepare foods, make clothing and make tent repairs. Storytelling was probably one of the most important forms of entertainment. The older members of the clan would tell the stories of their history to the children in order to pass on the experiences of the tribe and clans to the next generation.
One of the major responsibilities of the clan is to provide hospitality to anyone who comes to them. This may be a member of a related clan or even an enemy of another tribe. In both cases it was the responsibility of the clan to provide food, shelter and protection as long as they were within their camp.
Religion The religion of the nomads is very different from our understanding of religion. The whole of the nomads life was his religion. As his very existence was dependent upon rain he understood that his life was in God's hands at all times. The nomad saw the power, justice, love and mercy of God in all things and coversly all of his activities, from eating to making shelter, was seen as a service to God. The nomad lived in harmony with his surroundings and understood as being one with God who created all things. In short, his life was one long prayer to God.
posted
Actually u mean Matriarchal customs are older than Patriarchal.
Ancient Hebrews were pastoralist i would have to check into that but think about this for a minute AFrica do u see how there are different sects in Islam Christianity did u ever think that there were different Sects in Ancient Egypt well there were and the So-called Hebrew people were nothing less than africans who followed a different sect like u have Protestents Mormons Shite Sunni Sufi but all from the same source Islam & Christianity well thats the same thing that was happening in Egypt for Instance TetAnkhAmen and Akenaten were bringers of different sects in Ancient egypt and there could be more.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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We are difting off the original topic so I think it would be appropriate to discuss this in another thread.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Africa: Becareful, it is believed that cattle herding started before farming in the Sahara which means patriarchal societies are very ancient as well...
We've discussed this before. Cattle herding has little to do with patriarchy since there are many pastoral groups that are matriarchal or where women still maintain prestige.
quote:..And most cattle herding societies in Africa: Massai, Somali, Himas, Tutsis are patriarchal soceties...
That would depend on what you mean by 'patriarchal'. In the societies of the some of the groups you listed, women have much higher status than some West African agricultural groups who have been Europeanized.
quote:by the way, what about the Beja, do they have patriarchal societies? I know Egypt and many other African cultures are matriarchal but there are still 50,000,000 pastoralists in Africa,
Yes and again, many like the Fulani, Tuareg, and Teda are not as male dominated as you think.
quote:among them, many have strong patriarchal customs: the sons inherit everything, women are considered like children,...
Please name this society where women are "treated like children". I have never heard of such a society in Africa unless you can give me an example.
quote:and you go by your father...you are the son of your father son of your grand father son of your great grand father...
LOL What you described was patrilineage or descend reckoned through the male line. This does not necessarily mean societies who had this was completely patriarchal in the sense that women were inferior.
quote:I believe the Arabs imported these traditions from african pastoralists...because they are the majority in the world:50,000,000 African pastoralists!!!
LOL True, 'Arabs' of Arabia inherited much of their culture from Africa including their very languages which are Afrasian, but are you aware that the earliest Afrasian speakers of Southern Arabia were matrilineal and matriarchal?!
quote:Basically you are nobody if they don't know your father...you are nobody...you are the son of your father...that's your identity among many cattle herders of Africa..
LOL Such a belief has little to do with "cattle herding" and is pretty much global. It marks the importance of family, especially marriage and parenthood. Thus it was important for one to know ones own father.
quote:[/qb]I believe bedouins were originally African cattle herders, because their customs are almost identical to many cattle herding African groups..[/qb]
As I have shown, many of the customs you pointed out as being identical are really not. And again, whatever similarity they do have to Africans stems from their Afrasian cultural heritage.
quote:...and they constitute a small number compare to the 50,000,000 cattle herders of Africa...
LOL What is it with you and this "50,000,000 cattle herders"?! Africa, you are silly. You are just like and no different from 'Bantu' with his notions of "farmers". Why don't you and 'Banu' get together and discuss which traditional economy is better.
In the meantime, Ausar is correct that we are drifting off the original topic! Let's get back to that shall we.
Posts: 26258 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Does anyone know if any study dealing with survivals of Kemetic language in modern Egyptian Arabic have been published?
Posts: 203 | Registered: Dec 2005
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Pastoralist societies most often have patriarchy descent patterns and are male dominated. Men usually make the important decisions and own the animals, while women primarily care for children and perform domestic chores. Compared to pedestrian foraging societies, the economic and political power of most pastoralist women is very low. However, the division of labour is based primarily on gender and age in both foraging and pastoralist societies. http://www.codesria.org/Links/conferences/general_assembly11/papers/kandagor.pdf RETHINKING PASTORALISM AND AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT: A CASE STUDY OF THE HORN OF AFRICA BY Dr. Daniel Rotich Kandagor Lecturer, Department of History, Egerton University, P.O. Box 536, NJORO-KENYA rotich_dr@yahoo.Posts: 711 | From: Africa | Registered: Oct 2006
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^ And again this is not necessarily so, with example of the matriarchal nomads of Tibet and matriarchal Tuareg of the Sahara. And again, patrilineage or descent from males is different patriarchy proper which describes actual gender roles. Some of the patrilineal tribes of Tibet are matriarchal.
In any rate, I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic of this thread.
Posts: 26258 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Indeed, like many cultures whose traditions have been taken over by foreign ones, the older indigenous traditions have not been entirely wiped out but eventually included under the guise of new traditions. Thus many of the 'Christian' or 'Islamic' festivals are actually Pharaonic or pagan in origin. The same is said with many Christian holidays celebrated in the Europe and the West which derive from pre-Christian indigenous European elebrations or those Christian holidays celibrated in Latin America which derive from indigenous American celebrations.
Posts: 26258 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Africa, could you please continue this debate on patriarchical and matriarchical cultures in another thread please?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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If the above poster wish to continue to discuss about a minority among African pastoralists (Tuaregs) he can do so by contacting the following scholar: Dr. Daniel Rotich Kandagor Lecturer, Department of History, Egerton University, P.O. Box 536, NJORO-KENYA rotich_dr@yahoo
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And again this is not necessarily so, with example of the matriarchal nomads of Tibet and matriarchal Tuareg of the Sahara. And again, patrilineage or descent from males is different patriarchy proper which describes actual gender roles. Some of the patrilineal tribes of Tibet are matriarchal.
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