quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: [QB] [QUOTE]
The Sabaeans that colonized Meroe (Marwa) and the Blue Nile (Astaboras) were probably the Ethiopians that Herodotus called the tallest and blackest of men.
I am only going to say this one time,sabaeans did not colonized meroe.
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quote:Originally posted by KING: Man people I just don't see where Sargon looks African. He looks like any ordinary Asiatic man.
Peace
Actually I think that was Leo's point. What Leo is trying to further suggest was that the people of Arabia were always Asiatic which is not the case. Arabia which is right next to Africa obviously had Africans as among its original inhabitants.
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: [QB] [QUOTE]
The Sabaeans that colonized Meroe (Marwa) and the Blue Nile (Astaboras) were probably the Ethiopians that Herodotus called the tallest and blackest of men.
I am only going to say this one time,sabaeans did not colonized meroe.
The name Saba or Soba doesn't necessarily refer to Arabians Sabaeans Kenndo. Ethiopians who called themselves so most certainly did live there and in Arabia. Ask any archeologist and then get a grip.
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You can also post sculptures of ancient Abyssinians who look the same. Not sure what the images are supposed to suggest, did you want them to look like Nok figurines?
Ethiopians, Sabaeans and Himyarites were composed of the same people and Lyin'ess, Europeans nor any body else is going to change that, nor usurp the Afro-Arabian culture.
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quote:Originally posted by KING: Man people I just don't see where Sargon looks African. He looks like any ordinary Asiatic man.
Peace
I agree and he could have clearly been Afro-Asiatic, since several waves of "black" Afro-Arabians including Amurath (Murad) have conquered the area of southern Mesopotamia until recently according to modern Iraqis.
Nice Info Dana, So what you are saying is that Iraqis are not afraid to speak the truth about there country.
If this is the case, then that throws another blow to the racist elites. I read what was posted in that thread you linked to. I just want the TRUTH of this world to come out and I hope the people realize that self hate and denial is not something to promote.
If the Mass(People) are going to change this world for the better and leave this world for the children in a good way, it starts with us uniting and respecting each other. Love hides a multitude of sins.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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Nice Info Dana, So what you are saying is that Iraqis are not afraid to speak the truth about there country.
If this is the case, then that throws another blow to the racist elites. I read what was posted in that thread you linked to. I just want the TRUTH of this world to come out and I hope the people realize that self hate and denial is not something to promote.
If the Mass(People) are going to change this world for the better and leave this world for the children in a good way, it starts with us uniting and respecting each other. Love hides a multitude of sins.
Peace
I would say some of the better educated Iraqi's don't have an interest in hiding the history of their country or their own ancestors. Yemen, for example, was once a Persian colony and journalists over there also have made mention of that because people are still fighting in Yemen over the fact that many of the aristocracy descend from early Persians.
Somali woman
Sabaean woman
The features of the Sabaean figurines above and in Leos postings are very Tigrai/Eritrean/Ethiopian and even Somali in appearance. There are thousands of women in the Horn of Africa with the features of the sculpture, for example. I am sure with the many photos you have captured King you have already noticed this. No one can deny it. The hairstyles including cornrows are also the same today.
Tigre girls - the nose coming directly out of the forhead is typical of Tigre and many other Ethiopian/Ethiopian peoples and the ancient statuary of Sabaeans and Himyarites.
Sabaean ruler
Ancient Sabaean alabster with common Tigrai hairstyle
Typical Sabaean representation of a man late 1st millenium
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Dana I am interested in your personal opinion. All three pictures represent Horner’s ,in your opinion do all three pictures represent pure Blooded Horners?
quote Dana: The Sabaeans that colonized Meroe (Marwa) and the Blue Nile (Astaboras) were probably the Ethiopians that Herodotus called the tallest and blackest of men.Posts: 51 | Registered: Feb 2010
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I dont see were u get Pure blooded HOrner Leo U Tell me What is Not Pure about the Horn of AFrica mainly Sudan,Eritrea,Ethiopia,Djbouti,and Somalia u can even throw Yemen into this fold because they all look the same.
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sudan is not a part of the horn africa,and there is some differences when it comes to looks,depending on the country and ethnic groups you are talking about.
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quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: Dana I am interested in your personal opinion. All three pictures represent Horner’s ,in your opinion do all three pictures represent pure Blooded Horners?
quote Dana: The Sabaeans that colonized Meroe (Marwa) and the Blue Nile (Astaboras) were probably the Ethiopians that Herodotus called the tallest and blackest of men.
I'm personally not interested in giving opinions when it comes to biological facts. Actually there were several different black African populations in the neolithic period in east Africa and Arabia. Some people had long-headed narrow nosed extremely black peoples of Arabia and the Horn east Africa. They first appeared in the deserts in the Sahara and Arabia in the neolithic and are represented by such tall slender people as Rendili and Samburu (Elmenteitan, Olduvai groups). In Arabia some of these groups absorbed Sassanid Iranian peoples and Greco-Romans, Scyths before moving back into Africa and other peoples as the large bodied wide nosed, prognathic Ubaid people of Arabia (Umm an Nar) and the very small gracile Arabian groups sometimes called wrongly "Negritos" or "Austrics" represented by some of the Beja, Hijazi Arabians and found along other parts of the Arabian coast i.e. Shihu, Gara/Qara - have also mixed with each other and with non=African groups especially since the Christian era. Iranic peoples broaght a broader head form or cephalic index into the South Arabian area. All of the black groups mentioned especially the small ones were dolichocephalic and the small populations were similar to people of the Beja and ancient Egypt. Naturally, black southern Arabians and peoples of the Horn who have been in commercial contact with Greeks and Iranians since the time of Christ are going to show certain features less characteristic of other black Africans such as less kinky hair or browner skin. Also, diverse Black African and Afro-Asiatic populations have been been mixing amongst themselves in Arabia and the Horn and some moved back into the Horn and Kerma before the first millenium B.C. while others have been moving Eastward which is why you see a variety of types in ancient Nubia as well.
Some of the groups found on both sides of the Eritrean Sea in the ancient pre=Christian era were Hada or Hayda, Harim, Mahra, Bazin, Bashama'at, Saba, Kush, Sa'b, Kor'an, Makhir, Mukharib, Adtha'at, Yubir, Hubir, Atma'an, Amar, Begawi or Begui, Bishar, Madhiy, Abeshat, Bida'a or Bediyat, Bazin, Afar, Anak, Sambara, Lahaba, Falsa and Falasha, Hadahid to name just a few. This is because the vicinity of the southwest Arabia, Yemen and the Horn was once one cultural region. Archeologists have come to call this the Sabir culture, and its antecedents date back to at least the 3rd millenium B.C.
The peoples of the Horn are the result of ancient black populations moving back into Africa mixing with others of similar stock who had been settled there for thousands of years. The groups who have settled the Horn and Sudan were Semitic (Cushitic), i.e. Afro=Asiatic speaking, Nilotic speaking and Bantu speaking. So your question is not really relevant. None of these types was originally more black African than the other, although some descendants of the Axum and south Arabians have absorbed the blood of Iranians, Greeks, etc, after the time of Christ,the bulk of their ancestors belong to populations that have been living in Africa for thousands of years - represented by the Badarian, Amratian, Doian and Elmenteitan and other cultures.
My point is early elongated and Abyssinians or other Africans further south didn't get their extremely narrow or refined nose shapes and symmetrical faces from Iranians or Greeks. it is a type that has been represented in Africa since the Saharan Neolithic. There are also other people of probable Niger= Congo speaking origin who have settled in East Africa such as the modern Nuba of Sudan for example whom are a mesocephalic people that may have little to do with the ancient Noba. Populations move, amalgamate and sometimes adopt names and languages, Africa was no more static than anywhere else. Contrary to Afro-centered fears or wants and Eurocentered nuttiness, no one dark skinned sub-Saharan population type is any more black African than the other although some have obviously absorbed the blood of non-Africans or non-Afro-Asiatic i.e. Hamito-Semitic peoples - especially since the start of the early Christian era. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Dana I am interested in an academic source that Arabians and Ethiopians have specific Iranian linage’s which are verifiable via DNA.
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the modern noba are mix of nubians and other speakers.some are clearly from the nile valley,some are nubians from other regions of the sudan,and others are not nubians at all.
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The modern day ethiopians are not in the same cluster with the first Africans that left Africa 70,000 years ago, the current day ethiopians are a people of ancestry from Yemen too the Mediterranean.
The only groups in Ethiopia that have a connection with the first Africans are the Omo people (they make up only 2%) while the Amhara and Tigray are a people of ancestry from ancient Yemeni groups.
Groups like the Khoisan are the other groups of people who are also closely related to the first Africans.
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First of all I see what are possibly braids in his hair second Sabaean coins in any case are said to have been "Athenian style" copies, we don't know when these coins were from, if they were Seres or other coins in Arabia, third long braids don't necearrily mean Iranian, fourth the site says ANONYMOUS.
Last - you keep posting pictures of peoples and places from tribes in Yemen and elsewhere that were once called "black".
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quote:Originally posted by iateyourheadphones: Ethiopians and Other Hoa population do indeed share simmilarites to those ancient sabean groups,culture mixture between indeed occur.
compare these ethiopians, they share simmalar features to modern day arabs.
groups like the Amhara and Tigray tend to have these arab/sabean features.
The man at the top Marcus has typical Sabean and Amharic features. If you are saying Sabeans are Arabs that's fine but those are features are somewhat different than those of Syrians and Iranians who colonized the Yemen and have intermingled with the Sabaean, i.e. speaking people there.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Leo Minor: [QB] [IMG] Did you find out what part of Arabia the man depicted at Persepolis came from. Interesting that the Iranians of that period aren't portrayed with straight hair.
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Dana I am still interested in an academic source that Arabians have specific Iranian linage’s which are verifiable via DNA especially in Yemen.
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quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: Dana I am still interested in an academic source that Arabians have specific Iranian linage’s which are verifiable via DNA especially in Yemen.
Actually - I am not - because Iranians (Sassanid, Seres, Carmathian), Greeks, Turks, Armenian and Caucasian concubines and many other Eurasiatic peoples who have come as merchants and slaves to southern Arabia have contributed to the population there which was originally African. So I would be more interested in knowing how some of these people especially the ones that are still speaking both Persian and Arabic are linked to Eurasiatics in general. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: If I understand you correctly you have no academic evidence via DNA to underline your statements?
Also in your personal opinion what "original" Y-DNA/mtDNA did Arabs have?
What statements are you speaking of the fact that Iranians and TURKS came to the YEMEN and settled there?! Well actually I am pretty sure there is some out there but that is not my interest.
The Sabaean dna can be found with the people still speaking the ancient south Arabian dialects Mahra, Qarra, Shahra, etc. I haven't done special research into what the Sabaean dna is, but I'm sure it doesn't have much close link to ancient Iranians, Greeks, Byzantines or Medieval Turks who have settled the area. I'm sure its more related to that of the Somalis and Amharas.
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A guy from youtube mailed me this; a German expert on old South Arabian who is actively researching in Yemen claims Sabaeans are immigrants from the Levant. “Which I myself don’t really believe”
For the period before there is hardly any from South Arabia, and especially no related news. Sometime around 1200 BC. migrated as a Nebes preferred hypothesis, proto-Sabeans from the Palestinian-Syrian region. In writing and language, he finds "quite striking similarities" between the Levant and south-west Arabia. The new residents from the north brought "urban knowledge" with - for example, a sophisticated stone technology - and took over the centuries hydraulic technology of the locals. On the first steps towards Empire and Volkwerdung there is no news. The Sabaean civilization appear suddenly and fully mature. In any event logs in the 8th Century BC from the southwest corner of Arabia an expansive territorial state, which negotiates with the world Assyria on trade routes. -Prof. Dr. Norbert Nebes-
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Sabaean culture has now been traced back to the Sabir culture which goes back to the 4th millenium BC. Sabir culture. Why would you past a url for an article in German. U will have to translate it first.
And here are a few good articles about the ancient Persians and their descendants in Yemen and Arabia from the Yemen Times.
-Irgendwann um 1200 v.Chr. wanderten, so Nebes bevorzugte Hypothese, die Proto-Sabäer aus der palästinensisch-syrischen Region ein.-
Sometime around 1200 BC. migrated as a Nebes preferred hypothesis, proto-Sabeans from the Palestinian-Syrian region.
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There's evidence for a movement of Africans into Yemen, this is also supported by genetics,Yemeni populations plot in proximity to indigenous African populations. Another possibility is the existence of an indigenous dark skinned population with physical and genetic commonality in regard to Africans, while being indigenous to Southern Arabia. Ancient Yemeni populations were routinely recognized as "Aethiopians" or "Kushites" in the Roman-Greeco world among others.
"In the 5th century AD the Himyarites, in the south of Arabia, were styled by Syrian writers as Cushaeans and Ethiopians."
Coastal/Northern Saharan North Africans according to the most relavent and likely accurate study in regard to Africans, i.e. the Tishkoff 2009 study, are AT LEAST ~50% African but likely even more in that the Saharan/Dogon either indicates indigenous North African ancestry and/or Eurasian ancestry.
The general Yemeni population would likely fare very similar results in comparison to North Africans. And in regard obviously African peoples in Tihama (Western Yemen and Southwestern Saudi Arabia), Hadhramaut (Southern Yemen), and Socotra (Somalia but politically apart of Yemen). Central and Northern Yemen are much more ambiguous.
It is a common misconception that "pure" Africans with no Eurasian ancestry can only have the stereotypical "negroid" looks or features while blacks who have such narrow or 'fine' features such as the Ethiopians in the pictures above have Eurasian ancestry.
This misconception is of course FALSE and has been debunked by modern anthropology since at least the 40s by Franz Boas and was confirmed within the last decade via population genetic studies. Such studies have been presented here in this forum for God knows how many times but it is countless! The truth is that craniofacial features are the most diverse anatomical traits in the human species and you cannot associate narrow noses and thin lips with Eurasian populaces no more than you can associate broad noses and everted lips with African ones. Furthermore, since Africa is the birthplace of the human species, African populations are the oldest in the planet and therefore possess the most genetic diversity. Since they possess the most genetic diversity, why is it not so hard to believe they also possess the greatest phenotypic diversity as well??
Jean Hiernaux The People of Africa 1975 p.53, 54
"In sub-Saharan Africa, many anthropological characters show a wide range of population means or frequencies. In some of them, the whole world range is covered in the sub-continent. Here live the shortest and the tallest human populations, the one with the highest and the one with the lowest nose, the one with the thickest and the one with the thinnest lips in the world. In this area, the range of the average nose widths covers 92 per cent of the world range:
only a narrow range of extremely low means are absent from the African record. Means for head diameters cover about 80 per cent of the world range; 60 per cent is the corresponding value for a variable once cherished by physical anthropologists, the cephalic index, or ratio of the head width to head length expressed as a percentage....."
Although the passage above from Hiernaux is from the 70s, his findings still hold up to this day and remain undisputed.
This is the reason why racial terms like "caucasoid" or "negroid" are debunked and do not really exist. How can a "caucasoid" race be defined by facial features like high thin nosese and thin lips when such traits are found in various populations around the globe having nothing to do with the Caucasus or Europe?? The same is true for "negroid".
The false concept of "caucasoid" was used to explain not on the features of peoples in the Horn region of Africa but even as far south as Kenya and Tanzania. This is why you find old literature referring to an early i.e. prehistoric presence of "caucasians" in those regions of Sub-Sahara. Even in people in West Africa like the Wodaabe and people in Central Africa like the Ba-Tutsi were labeled as "caucasian" by ignorant white explorers and colonizers!
^ The Eurasian aboriginals above display "negroid" morphology yet they are not Africans.
By the way, the main difference between the 'fine' features of African types and those of Southwest Eurasians is that the former tend to have straight noses while the latter tend to have bent or stereotypical so-called 'hooked' noses associated with Jews and northern 'Arabs'.
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I should also point out that it is a well known historical fact that not only did the Sabaeans have trade contacts with Mesopotamia but that they also adopted some artistic and architectural styles from Mesopotamians. This explains the alabaster figures like the ones above show certain Mesopotamian motifs though again such facial features need not be attributed to non-black peoples.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: This misconception is of course FALSE and has been debunked by modern anthropology since at least the 40s by Franz Boas
Where did Franz Boas debunk the "true negro" stereotype?
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^ In his latest works where he realizes that cranio-facial traits are too diverse within populations to be used to categorize populations. His thesis that 'race' is purely arbitrary and subjective is what revolutionized modern anthropology and debunked the old Blumenbach model. Unfortunately many of his peers merely tried to work around this fact and tried newer approaches of perpetuating the Blumenbach notions.
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I should also point out that it is a well known historical fact that not only did the Sabaeans have trade contacts with Mesopotamia but that they also adopted some artistic and architectural styles from Mesopotamians. This explains the alabaster figures like the ones above show certain Mesopotamian motifs though again such facial features need not be attributed to non-black peoples.
Right Djehuti - and anyone who has seen or lived among Eritraean- Ethiopian peoples knows that these faces including the hair are strikingly like the Amhara-Tigrai-Gurage.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ In his latest works where he realizes that cranio-facial traits are too diverse within populations to be used to categorize populations. His thesis that 'race' is purely arbitrary and subjective is what revolutionized modern anthropology and debunked the old Blumenbach model. Unfortunately many of his peers merely tried to work around this fact and tried newer approaches of perpetuating the Blumenbach notions.
**Where** did Franz Boas debunk the "true negro" stereotype?
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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^ He debunks that and all other racial types in his book Race, Language, and Culture (1940) which is based on even earlier studies like his Changes in the Bodily Form of Descendants of Immigrants in 1911.
Why do I get the feeling that your skepticism is based on nothing more than the fact that he's Jewish? You are aware that Boas worked closely with many great African Americans and was one of the first white Westerners to point out Africa's cultural achievements and advanced civilizations that refute racist claims of African inferiority.
But no doubt your Jew-frightened ass will make up something to defame the man. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: Dana I am not trying to be sarcastic but you can contact the Univ.-Prof. Dr. Norbert Nebes himself. http://www.uni-jena.de/Norbert_Nebes.html
-Irgendwann um 1200 v.Chr. wanderten, so Nebes bevorzugte Hypothese, die Proto-Sabäer aus der palästinensisch-syrischen Region ein.-
Sometime around 1200 BC. migrated as a Nebes preferred hypothesis, proto-Sabeans from the Palestinian-Syrian region.
Leo - I don't see anything sarcastic in what you are saying. But that is not some new theory - that has been the theory all along.
As I have said archeologists believe that the Southern or Afro- Arabian culture is now much older than originally believed so that now it is probably more likely that such peoples colonized Syro Palestine. However, if you are suggesting the Kena'ani, Amlukh and Fenkhu from the Eritrean Sea who lived in Palestine-Syria were not Afro-Arabians and black you are absolutely incorrect.
As I been mentioning in my posts these tribes are living under their ancient names and in their black skins in the Yemen, Central Arabia and even northward in Syria/Palestine and Iraq.
You are not getting the picture, Leo, or you haven't read the posts. The black people known as the children of SHEM, like those of Ham and Japhet that settled Syria once occupied the Arabian peninsula which was considered the eastern part of black Africa or "Ethiopia" among Syrians until very recently.
The black Syrians or Cana'an ARE LIVING UNDER THEIR ANCIENT NAMES although some clans DISPLAY TRAITS OF THE FAIR SKINNED NON-BLACK PEOPLE THEY HAVE MIXED MAINLY AFTER THE COMING OF THE SASSANIDS. The Kana'aniyyah (Canaanites) were and are mainly living in their lowland south of Mecca and of course settled in Palestine in ancient times WHERE SOME STILL LIVE.
The second group described as "jet black" (in various hadiths) are the Azd (chilren of the Sid/Set peoples whose totem was the lion God "Asad"). They were also likely the Al YASIR or Yisra'el of Old Testament tradition - and their leader Muzaikiyyah who left Marib (the Moses of Meriba - Exodus 17) is also described in the Hadiths of the Quran as "jet black" (though in one hadith he is set to have had lank hair).
According to the Old Testament of the Bible the Kenaani or Canaanites included peoples called: the Amalekite, Midianite, Kenaz, the Hiwite or Hivites, Amorite, Zibeon, Hamdan, and the Edomite, etc. I have several times now shown how these people lived and live in the lowland of the Banu Kana'an a region far south of Mecca in the Asir Tihama and in Yemen and how and when they colonized Syria-Palestine in the middle of the second millenium B.C.an area occupied by those whom the Greeks later called "WHITE SYRIANS". This migration of "when the Canaanites spread abroad" likely deals with the movement of the Hyksos. i.e. Meluhha people from Hijaz.
Let us go over again who these people WERE AND ARE.
THE MIDIANITES
According to the Bible, Madi'an and Madan were children of Keturah through Abraham. Their siblings included Jokshan and Zimran/Samran among others. I have posted a photograph of the Bait Kathir children and of the Maddhij and a video of the rather black modern Banu Samran/Shimron - in the modern European Hebrew accent - who are posted on Tariq Berry's site came to be called Kuthi or Kuthaniyya in Syrian and European Jewish writings.
Jokshan - Scholars know that the Jokshan or Kushan/Kishon were the Kassanitae or Kasandreis of Greek writers also known as the black or "Akhdar" Ghassan (or House of Jafnah i.e. Jephuneh) in Syrian and Arabic writings (CHRISTIANS) - a branch of "the black" Azd of Yemen who had settled in Hijaz.
Jafnah/Jephuneh the KENIZZITE i.e. of the tribe of KENAZ - ACCORDING TO THE OLD TESTAMENT - was the father of Caleb whose daughter Achsa married Othni'el. These were according to the OLD TESTAMENT the First Judges of the Kingdom of ALL Israel Yisra'el or El Yasir. (See Israel, Mizraim and Cana'an in Context - Parts I and II; and See the Bible Came from Arabia )
(Salibi’s, The Bible Came from Arabia identified the area of the Asir and Tehama as the land of Kush still skirted by the Gihon or Wadi Juhan stream today the main stream of the Wadi Bisha - the other parts corresponding to Canaan and Israel and Samaria. P. 175-176. )
Just in case people have not understood what was just written above - the children of Keturah, a people of Canaan, Edom and Samaria whose leaders were Hobab, Aaron (Harun/Amran), Reuel (El Ar'awi), Jeter/Ithran, Jethro/Yathrib, etc. ARE LIVING IN THEIR BLACK SKINS IN ARABIA.
THE AMALEKITES
I have written over and over about the Meluchha or Melukkha who were the PEOPLE FROM KANA'AN CALLED AMALEKITES. , “The tribe of Amalek were descended from Amalek the son of Eliphaz the son of Esau, though some of the oriental authors say Amalek was the son of Ham the son of Noah, and others the SON OF AZD the son of Sem.” p. 6 The Koran by George Sale.
They are usually mentioned with the Canaanites or as Canaanites or Edomites. Thus we have in one book of the Bible, 'Then the Amalekites and the Canaanites who lived in those hills came down and attacked them and chased them as far as Hormah. - Numbers 14:45"
According to the founder of Sumerian studies Samuel Kramer the land of Meluhha was “the place of black men” in the Akkadian dialect(see The Sumerians, p.277).
In the late Assyrian era, some of the Banu Amlukh/Meluchha are still left near Egypt/Kamit in northern Arabia and the Arabian land of Musri/Musrah. The Amalekites or "stock of Ad" - as they were also called- are mentioned in numerous Arabic texts and are said to be a tribe of the Mahra people by el Hamdani of the 9th century. They are tall, black and builders of great megalithic buildings, towns and dams in Arabia. Thus the Sabaeans are also mentioned as "men of stature" stature in the Hebrew Bible.
Amalekites are also by tradition the giants "Jababirah' or "Ghebers" who ruled Syria.
Peoples of the tribe of Amlukh still lived in the Yemen according to 19th century colonialists as I have mentioned more than a few times and according to Arab tradition are the Adite king shepherds who once ruled Saba, Himyar and Hijaz and settled Syria, the Aegean and north Africa under THEIR LEADERS (among whom were) Cathim, Darim, Qiyan, Ashish (Sheshi), Ianhu (Janus), Wa'il, Qabus, Khamudei, Samud or Thamud, Shedad, Lokhman, etc.
Josephus refers to the Amalekites as "the Phoenician shepherds". These are the Fenkhu with their Byblos ships as painted tall,slender and dark brown in in ancient Egyptian paintings, like their Philistine brethren.
Philistine of the Aegean "remnants of the Anakim of Canaan"
The clans of the Mahra still include the Samud'at (Thamud/Tsamud) the ancient inhabitants of the Hijaz who settled around Duma'at Jandal in Jordan.
Just in case people have not understood what was just written above - the Amalekites the perennial enemies of Yisra'el who fought against Joshua, Caleb (Banu Kalb) and Jefunneh (Jafnah) or AMLUKH of the RU'AYN - ARE THE ADITES REPRESENTED BY THE MAHRA, tall and black Mahra bin Hamdan or Haidan from the Qudha'a branch of the HIMYARITES. They are found in THEIR NEAR BLACK SKINS IN SOUTHERN ARABIA AND SOMALIA TODAY>
THE MODERN ISRAELITES and EDOMITES, i.e. CANAANITES - HAMDAN (BANU HAMDAN) , DISHAN (JASHAYN), ESHBAN (BASHMAN), KANA'AN, KENAZ (KENZIR'AT), AMORITE (MORAD, etc.
Abu’l Feda born in the 13th century in Damascus refers to Mahra as "the son of Hamdan". (See Abd al Kader a Poem in Six Cantos, Viscount Maidstone, 2004.)
As I have stated over and over, one of the main tribes of the Mahra are the Qunays (Kenaz) according to Arab authros. They are today called Kenzir'it. The Mahra descendants of the Himyarites share many clan names with the Dawasir remnants of Azd who come from Himyars brother Kahlan.
The Gazeteer of the Persian Gulf a colonialist work lists the many names of the Dawasir tribes. The modern Banu Hamdan tribe are descendants in part of the Dawasir people living in CENTRAL ARABIA whom I have said colonialists have called "tallest and blackest of the Arabs". -Thus Swissman John Lewis Burkhardt wrote in 1829, “the Dowasir are said to be very tall men and almost black.” Some Dawasir or Dosari like the Hamdan however have mixed with the Iranians with whom they were allied in the early part of the Islamic era. In fact some Dawasir still speak Persian and look it as well.
The Ad-Dawasir claim descent from the Azd - a jet black people who settled in the Sara'at mountains of the Asir and the area of their ancestor "ZAHRAN" AND IN THE WADI BISHA where the names of their towns and places have remained in place and whom we have shown are the Adites who settled at Marib and built the dam there under their leader "Lokman".
The name Dawasir perhaps not by coincidence is is from the phrase el-da Yasir and is plural from Dthu Shari (Asher) among them are the tribes of Banu YAM (Jamin/Benyamin of the tribe of Judah), Ishkara or Ashaqir (Issachar -son of Jacob and Leah), Makhir/Makharam (Makir - first born son of Menasseh son of Joseph and Asenath of Misra), Barik/Bariq el Azdi(Barak) and the names of other tribes of this apparently early Israelite/Canaanite peeople.
For more information on the Azdite origins of the Israelites read part I and II of Israel, Mizraim, and Canaan IN CONTEXT
The tribe of Moab is also represented among the Dawasir in the Banu Ajlani - whose ancestor was Ajlan or "Eglon". Eglon in the Old Testament was the king of Moab who suppressed Yasir'el in the time of the Judges. "He was the head of the confederacy of Moab, Ammon and Amalek in their assault..."
BARAK a Dawasir tribe - The movement of the Banu Barik (mentioned above by Upton) is closely intertwined with the Biblical story of the “torrent of Kishon” or Gassan, the brook “near Zabid”. Barak is credited with defeating the Canaanite (Banu Kenaani) army of Sisera from which comes the name of modern Sirr Zahra in Jizan (see Kamal Salibi, The Bible Came from Arabia).
Judges 4:7 of the Bible reads: “And I will draw out Sisera, the general of Jabin’s army, to meet you by the river Kishon with his chariots and his troops, and I will give him into your hand’?” Judges 4:15 "When Barak attacked, the LORD threw Sisera and all his chariots and warriors into a panic. Sisera leaped down from his chariot and escaped on foot…"
See Israel Mizraim and Canaan in Context Part I for more on Bariq el Azdi.
Other Canaanite/"Edomite" tribes are the Dawasir tribe of Bashman (whom Tabari says were also called Sanbar and Yashbin) and identified as the Eshban of a tribe of Canaanites mentioned by Ibn Qutayba..
Bathran or Badran a tribe of teh Dawasir - whom Tabari says was called Yathrib. Tahash was called Shadud and Masha, the Dawasir tribe of Jabir was Achbar ("father of the Jinns" also known as Ghebers, Kabiri, Jabaren). The following are also Dawasir tribal names i.e. tribes descended from the Azd mentioned in the GazeteerL: El Qamah(Kamwal), Hemamah (Hemam), Nahadh (Nahath), Ja'halim (Jaalam), Al Ufaysan (Eliphaz), Umar ( Omar), Dawas or Daus (Jeush), Ayyan ( Aia/ Aya/ Ashja), Hannah (Anah), Daham or Dahman (Taman/Teman), Kana'an (Cana'an), Nadir (Nadr bin Kanaan) Ghanm (Ghanim bin Nadr bin Kana'an).
Also found among the Dawasir are the tribe of Qainan (Cainan) Mahl ( Mahal'aleel) and Hanish and Nahish (Enosh) all children of Set.
In addition the tribe of Zibeon is called Zabyan, Dhibyan or Dhubyan in Arabic texts and is represented by the small black Janaba.
After the 7th century B.C. Babylonians or Chaldeans - a people known to the Greeks as "Kushites" and very likely a people from the Banu Khalid of southern Arabia ( as I have explained previously), invaded the Canaanite people in Hijaz which included Judaea (Yhwd or land of Hud and Wadd i.e. "the lions whelp") and after the exile these people came back into the Hijaz and Syria where they founded the new Yerusalim in the post-exilic state of Yisra-el.
Now all of these people are still living under their ancient names in their black bodies in Arabia and Africa in fact some in Syria and Iraq. The Kanaanites are still called Kana'ani In southern Arabia , among the Dawasir and in Israel in Jericho, and Samran, Maddhij, living in Yemen and in Syria (Israel/Palestine). I provided the video link of the land of Samran in Yemen so that everyone can see what these people looked like and why the Midianite ethnonym Kushi and Kuthi" for the Shimron/Samaritans came to mean black.
These tribe of Canaanites came from the "lowland" a region far south of Mecca in Yemen and colonized the area occupied by those whom the Greeks called "white Syrians". To get another picture of what the Canaanites looked like we go to the description of the Hudhail living today between Mecca and northward to Taif.
The tribe of Kana'an is said to have come from the Khuzaimah (Kedemah?). Khuzaimah's brother is Hudhail or Hatheyl. Charles Doughty in his 1888 book, Travels in Arabia Deserta, describes the Hudhal whom he calls “Hatheyl” living in the mountains between Mecca and al-Ta’if to the north and in the Marr al Zahran - including the Laheyan clan of Hatheyl (anciently known as Lihyan founders of the ancient Lihyanite dynasty). He calls them a people whose “SKINS WERE BLACK AND SHINING”. (see p. 535).
Thus the ancestors of the Kanaanites and their own tribes are still black in Arabia. We thus also know what the Banu Lihyan or Lihyanites of ancient Dedan looked like. The name of the Banu Lehyan actually comes from Lehi the Israelite of Jerusalem looked like 600 B.C. who fought against the Philistines.
We also know what the Philistines looked like from the fact that they were descended from "the Anakim of Kana'an" which the Bible identifies as the people called Emim (Umayma) a tribe of the "black" Azd called Banu Bahilah. We are also told in the Old Testament of the HEBREW Bible that the Emim, Amorim, Nephilim and Amalekites were OF THE SAME STOCK. Deuteronomy 2:10, Numbers 13:33 It thus not surprising that one of the Dawasir tribes are known today as Banu Nifal. p. 393
We also have the tribes of Sa'ab and Sheb mentioned. Hmmm now this sounds mighty familiar.
Thus, I am wondering where are all these white Canaanites and lost tribes of Israel that were supposed to have be located in Palestine and moved southward to found Yemenite Kingdoms. The notion itself is ridiculous as all of the names of the tribes and their towns are today found in southern Arabia and could only have been brought there mainly after the Babylonian exile since many of the places didn't exist in the archeological record before that time.
The skeletons of ancient Palestine show that a dolichocephalic Afro-Mediterranean did once live there, but were pushed out after the 9th century B.C. and went fleeing apparently into North Africa and into the Aegean where there skeletons reappear at places like Carthage and Cadiz.
Such "BLACK SYRIAN" people were related to the Solymi (Banu Salim) who had founded Yerusalim in both southern Arabia and Syria, the Masikh (Mashek), an Azd people who probably also moved up the Euphrates founded Cattpadukia and Kizzuwatna and other places which are variations of the name Keftiu in and around the Mediterranean. These were in fact the ORIGINAL SONS OF JAPHET.
Needless to say the fair-skin people around the Mediterranean today ARE THE MOST BRACHYCEPHALIC IN THE WORLD. These people were later prosyletized by the original people of Judah (the land of Wadd or Wahid), i.e. the true remnants of the Israelites in Hijaz.
Sculpture from Lihyanite (Banu Lehyan)Kcivilization in Jordan
Sabaean woman of Yemen far to the south of Liyan bearing the characteristically symmetrical refined features of one "Ethiopian" type 5th c. B.C.
Children of the Kathir (Keturah) and Shahra ( a Mahra descended group claiming descent from Ad)
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^ That the Land of Midian was inhabited by black people can be seen in Hebrew scriptures describing the Midianites as 'kushim' or blacks. Those who are familiar with the Bible would know that Moses's Midianite wife Zipporah of the Kenite tribe is described as black and was chastised for it in many interpretations. So too was the Shulamite bride as described in the 'Song of Songs' which in its accurate translation says "I am black and comely". Of course these are just two of many examples of blacks in the "Holy Land". Careful analysis of Jewish scriptures easily reveals all of this.
Dana, what do you make of Ausar's past quote below?
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Abdul, your typical northern Arabs are much darker than those little girls on the magazines. Arab media only shows the lightest celebrities in movies or magazines. Lots of northern Arabic groups like Iraqis are a mixture of northern and southern Arabians. Many bedouins originate in Yemen.
Both the Lakhmids and Ghassanids were southern Arabian I believe. Both were kingdoms that ruled Iraq and Syria respectively.
Levantine Arabs have layers of southern Arabian and European ancestry. The same goes for Syrians,Palestineans,Jordanians and others. Although in the case of the Palestineans they might have southern European or African influence. Whatever ethnic group existed prior to Arab immigration also might be apart of the mixture.
Don't sterotype Yemenis either because you will find pale ones amongst them as well as combinations of dark and pale people in the same family. In places like Tihama you find African looking people with a very ancient African culture...
Yes,some bedouins around the Sinai and other regions claim Yemeni origin. Its possible that when the dam in southern Arabia broke many resorted to nomadic lifestyle. Check the origin of the ghassanids and Lkhmids in Syria and Iraq most claim Yemen as their homeland. Try to find a book entitled The Sons of Ishmael by GW Murray. The book is a little heavy on Victorian prejustice but it does reaccount both Arabized and non-Arabized bedouins living in Egypt,parts of the Levant and other regions.
Of course the orginal Qahtan Arabs were sedentary unlike the Bedouins.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ That the Land of Midian was inhabited by black people can be seen in Hebrew scriptures describing the Midianites as 'kushim' or blacks. Those who are familiar with the Bible would know that Moses's wife Zipporah is described as black and was chastised for it in many interpretations. So too was the Shulamite bride as described in the 'Song of Songs' which in its accurate translation says "I am black and comely[/i]".
However, the Song of Songs is not written in the time of Solomon and the name "Kushi" or Kushan didn't originally mean black, but came to mean black in Syria, like Nabit and Kuthi or "Samaritan". There is also of course a tradition that Solomon was black. Solomon was an Israelite and the earliest Israelites Rabbis in Syria claim Shem was " black " Shihor.
Hence Rabbi Eliezar living in the first century calls Shem "black and beautiful". While the medieval David from the tribe of Reuben who came to Europe from Khaibar says his town was region of Chabor of the Bible the land located north of Israel which the Yehud were settled after their capture by Assyrians.
"near which Tiglath-pileser, and afterwards Shalmanezer located portions of the captive Israelites." 2 Kings 17:6 18:11.
Thus, "the name Hara is inserted between Chabor and the river of Gozan " Dictionary of the Holy Bible 1832 Augustine Calmet. This is the el-Hara of Arabia land of the Black Sulaym and Hawazin bin Mansur (or Manasseh).
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"The Assyrians obliterated the kingdom of Israel in 721 B.C.E., deporting 27,000 citizens and replacing them with a more malleable population.
"The Assyrian leader Sennacherib decisively defeated the Cushites and then captured and looted forty-six walled cities in Judah. the city called Jerusalem was apparently by the outbreak of a plague that struck the Assyrian.
The new king of Judah, Manasseh (ca. 687-642 B.C.) accommodated the pagan cults to the extent of permitting human sacrifice. "
The tribe of Manasse'ir or Mansur is not surprisingly the people from whom the tribe of were Reuben was closely related.
The "Cushi" are the Midianites called otherwise Kush or Jokshan in Chronicles and Habbakuk.
There is also a tribe of al-Rubbaniyan mentioned as belonging to Azd clan of Ghafiq in early Islamic times. p. 92 The Yemen in Early islam
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ That the Land of Midian was inhabited by black people can be seen in Hebrew scriptures describing the Midianites as 'kushim' or blacks. Those who are familiar with the Bible would know that Moses's Midianite wife Zipporah of the Kenite tribe is described as black and was chastised for it in many interpretations. So too was the Shulamite bride as described in the 'Song of Songs' which in its accurate translation says "I am black and comely". Of course these are just two of many examples of blacks in the "Holy Land". Careful analysis of Jewish scriptures easily reveals all of this.
Dana, what do you make of Ausar's past quote below?
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Abdul, your typical northern Arabs are much darker than those little girls on the magazines. Arab media only shows the lightest celebrities in movies or magazines. Lots of northern Arabic groups like Iraqis are a mixture of northern and southern Arabians. Many bedouins originate in Yemen.
Both the Lakhmids and Ghassanids were southern Arabian I believe. Both were kingdoms that ruled Iraq and Syria respectively.
Levantine Arabs have layers of southern Arabian and European ancestry. The same goes for Syrians,Palestineans,Jordanians and others. Although in the case of the Palestineans they might have southern European or African influence. Whatever ethnic group existed prior to Arab immigration also might be apart of the mixture.
Don't sterotype Yemenis either because you will find pale ones amongst them as well as combinations of dark and pale people in the same family. In places like Tihama you find African looking people with a very ancient African culture...
Yes,some bedouins around the Sinai and other regions claim Yemeni origin. Its possible that when the dam in southern Arabia broke many resorted to nomadic lifestyle. Check the origin of the ghassanids and Lkhmids in Syria and Iraq most claim Yemen as their homeland. Try to find a book entitled The Sons of Ishmael by GW Murray. The book is a little heavy on Victorian prejustice but it does reaccount both Arabized and non-Arabized bedouins living in Egypt,parts of the Levant and other regions.
Of course the orginal Qahtan Arabs were sedentary unlike the Bedouins.
Actually I think it is a highly accurate view and way ahead of its time. He knows that most of the people in Arabia that are fair-skinned are the result of mixing. Today there are many tribes in which you will find fully dark-skinned Arabs and fully light skinned. This goes for the Yemen and northern Arabia. It also can be said of individual clans and families.
All one has to do is look at the tribe of Shammar as a good example. One group descends from Shammar Arabs that lived a long time in Syria before coming back into Arabia.
Then there are darker skinned Shammar who look not much different than some Somali tribes.
Although indigenous Arabians hardly modified can be found this peninsula is probably more mixed or intermingled than even the same latitutdes in North Africa has been.
Its also why I posted the article on the Montefiq and Ka'b Arabs written a few years ago by "the Arab Press" copyrighted in 2008.
“There are two main categories of blacks in Iraq, mostly in the south, who total about 300,000: those of East African origin, numbering around 100,000; and those of who are Arab and originate from the Hejaz, claiming to be descended from the Prophet Muhammad, who moved to this country mostly in the 1750s and 1980s. The latter are mostly from the Muntafek tribe to which 'Abdul-Mahdi belongs. But both groups used to be far more numerous in the past centuries, many of them having inter-married with the locals and thus the colour of their skin has since been changed ..."
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Tigre girls - the nose coming directly out of the forhead is typical of Tigre and many other Ethiopian/Ethiopian peoples and the ancient statuary of Sabaeans and Himyarites. 
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I'm sure its more related to that of the Somalis and Amharas.
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