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Let me clarify the situation. No person other than me has ever presented a method by which the pyramids could have been aligned which actually has the same variation curve as the pyramids. What I mean is that the method must produce an azimuth which goes from -20 arc minutes at the time of the construction of the Meidum Pyramid to +30 arc minutes at the time of construction of the pyramid of Neferirkare in Abusir. The method must match those azimuths at a time which could plausibly have been the construction dates, not like Kate Spence's theory which only works if the Great Pyramid was built around 2480 BC, which obviously it was not. That late a date is simply not plausible. That's over a century after Khufu actually reigned. My theory postulates a date of 2636 BC, which is quite plausible. Neferirkare's pyramid would have been built in 2501 BC, which again is quite plausible. The reigns of those Pharaohs could easily have been 40-50 years earlier than Egyptologists generally believe, but it's not really plausible that they could have reigned more than a century later than believed. There would be no way to stuff them all into the time space.
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Actually, I just checked using my Starry Night program and with Spence's method the azimuth gets further West as time progresses.The Great Pyramid would have had to have been built AFTER Neferirkare's pyramid, which would have had to have been built around 2550 BC. Same goes for Menkaure's Pyramid. It would have had to have been built before the Great Pyramid. Not very likely is it? The theory is obviously complete rubbish. There simply ARE no other pyramid azimuth theories that actually work with all the pyramids. Mine is the only one in existence. That should be your first clue that it's correct.
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Apparently, I didn't understand how Spence was using her azimuth method. It seems she used Mizar at the top instead of Kochab. When you do it that way, the dates come out; Meidum- 2530, Khufu- 2479, Menkaure- 2420, Neferirkare- 2370. Still not plausible dates in my opinion. Look how the dates indicated for the Pharaohs' reigns in this snippet from the book "Egypt's Place in Universal History" By Christian Karl Josias Bunsen, Samuel Birch, Philo, Charles Herbert (Google Books) perfectly tie in with the dates in my theory. They say 3645-2559, I said the three pyramids were started in 2643, 2636 and 2565. It's a perfect match.
Not a bad question: Indeed, why do you think you said something against cavemen?
The rest of your rambling, which I cut out, was just random disorganized self-talk.
I don't think I said something against cavemen, YOU think I said something against cavemen. Witness this quote from you;
"These "cavemen" apparently did something right, seeing that you owe your very existence to them, which is why you are here in the first place talking about them "cavemen". And they surely must have gotten help from "cave women"; they should get credit too."
There you implied that I had denigrated cavemankind.
Yes, I'm reading you citing me, and I don't see anywhere therein that you "denigrated cavemankind". The "implication" you got from my post, was derived on your own, which brings us right back to the question you were asked: why are you under the impression that you must have denigrated your "African cavemen" ancestors, if you in fact feel that you are not guilty of it?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Alright, you got me. It was my guilty conscience. I actually despise the cavemen. I don't even like watching Geico commercials. I think caveman art is childish and their flint tools laughably crude. Now, who wants to join me at the meeting of the anti-caveman club later tonight? We'll discuss how to keep the caveman down and later there will be free refreshments.
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Yes, my secret's out. I'm a caveman denigrating solver of Egyptian pyramid mysteries. But since this is an Egypt forum, the first part isn't particularly relevant. Now what do you have to say about the fact that I redefined the chronology of the pyramids? Nobody even suspected that Snefru had built the Great and Second Pyramids before I discovered it. Khufu only completed the Great Pyramid, the part with the King's Chamber and up from there, which is why his cartouche is in the relieving chambers. Snefru built the whole Second Pyramid himself but died before completion of the Great Pyramid. Note the similarity between Dahshur and Giza, two pyramids at each site depicting two stars of the northern sky. Obviously designed by the same people. The Second Pyramid is almost the same in design as the Red Pyramid, being started only a year later, then the Great Pyramid is the final and most advanced of the Snefru pyramids. Khufu wasn't entombed in it out of respect for his father's memory. He simply completed it for him and left it empty.
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And it's a good thing that you came clean with your guilt, for I was about to ask you why you even felt compelled to invoke your African ancestors as 'cavemen' in the first place.
quote: But since this is an Egypt forum, the first part isn't particularly relevant. Now what do you have to say about the fact that I redefined the chronology of the pyramids?
Oknaw10, what you wrote in another thread might well prove instructive in what I'm about to tell you vis-a-vis what I think of your pyramid theory, and quote:
In regard to the website about the 24,000 year old Sphinx, unfortunately the author is kind of a wacky person who claims to be the Messiah. He's a Polish guy. I've seen his stuff posted on another forum. Basically, just a bunch of lunacy. If somebody else wants to believe him, they're certainly welcome to do so, but self appointed Messiah's just aren't a reliable source of information, in my personal view. - by Oknaw10
...which is interesting, because by merely promoting some pretty wacky ideas here yourself about origins of ancient Egyptians, African civilizations et al., you managed to incur damage to whatever little credibility you might have had in the process. When you hamper your own credibility, it is hard for people to take you seriously. Replace the guy in your description up there with yourself, and voilà, people now see you as that "wacky person".
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Okay, you got me again. I'm really the Messiah. Fortunately, since my theory has nothing whatsoever to do with the origin of the Egyptians or other African civilizations, it really doesn't matter what my opinions are on those subjects. I'm not asking anyone to believe my Giza pyramids theory because I say it's so. I'm stating the absolute fact that I have discovered the one and only plausible method by which the Egyptian pyramids were aligned to North and that it indicates that Snefru built the Giza super-pyramids in addition to the Dahshur pyramids. I just thought the world should know about that so they won't have to continue living in ignorance of the true facts about who built the pyramids of Giza, because that ignorance is very unseemly and embarrassing to the field of Egyptology. When I start to care about other African civilizations, I'll be sure to let you know.
Posts: 59 | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: I just thought the world should know about that so they won't have to continue living in ignorance of the true facts about who built the pyramids of Giza, because that ignorance is very unseemly and embarrassing to the field of Egyptology. When I start to care about other African civilizations, I'll be sure to let you know.
What about you living in ignorance as well, in reference to who the ancient Egyptians were biologically and culturally? You're an embarrassment to Egyptology, by still erroneously promoting these indigenous ancient Africans as long lost "Caucasians". You have no idea about anything African, so why are you so worried about one single aspect of African culture? You need to understand the whole culture, and origins of this culture, in order to be able to make a justifiable theory about reasons the Pyramids were built, if not then you're merely speculating.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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As far as I'm concerned, what the ancestors of the Egyptians did or who they were is of no significance. They weren't the pyramid builders, unless you can show me one pre-Egyptian pyramid in Africa. The pyramids weren't built until several centuries after the formation of Egypt. What possible significance could there be to the pre-Egyptian African cultures? My interest is in the mystery of the Pyramids of Egypt. The rest of Egyptian history is really rather dull. The history of their ancestors is even duller. They made some stone circles and walls, cultivated some grains and gourds, raised some cattle. The end.
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Okay, you got me again. I'm really the Messiah. Fortunately, since my theory has nothing whatsoever to do with the origin of the Egyptians or other African civilizations, it really doesn't matter what my opinions are on those subjects.
You missed the point. But hey, you made a good point yourself, when you put it so eloquently that...
In regard to the website about the 24,000 year old Sphinx, unfortunately the author is kind of a wacky person who claims to be the Messiah... - by Oknaw10
quote: When I start to care about other African civilizations, I'll be sure to let you know.
I'm sorry; was I *already* under the impression that you actually cared about other African civilizations or even the ancient Egyptian one?
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10:
I just thought the world should know about that so they won't have to continue living in ignorance of the true facts about who built the pyramids of Giza, because that ignorance is very unseemly and embarrassing to the field of Egyptology. When I start to care about other African civilizations, I'll be sure to let you know.
What about you living in ignorance as well, in reference to who the ancient Egyptians were biologically and culturally? You're an embarrassment to Egyptology, by still erroneously promoting these indigenous ancient Africans as long lost "Caucasians". You have no idea about anything African, so why are you so worried about one single aspect of African culture? You need to understand the whole culture, and origins of this culture, in order to be able to make a justifiable theory about reasons the Pyramids were built, if not then you're merely speculating.
Indeed.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: Okay, you got me again. I'm really the Messiah. Fortunately, since my theory has nothing whatsoever to do with the origin of the Egyptians or other African civilizations, it really doesn't matter what my opinions are on those subjects. I'm not asking anyone to believe my Giza pyramids theory because I say it's so. I'm stating the absolute fact that I have discovered the one and only plausible method by which the Egyptian pyramids were aligned to North and that it indicates that Snefru built the Giza super-pyramids in addition to the Dahshur pyramids. I just thought the world should know about that so they won't have to continue living in ignorance of the true facts about who built the pyramids of Giza, because that ignorance is very unseemly and embarrassing to the field of Egyptology. When I start to care about other African civilizations, I'll be sure to let you know.
You are a fool, how dare you try to make such a ignorant statement as Egypt's greatest acheivment was the Pyramids. The Egyptians were innovators of many things besides the Pyramids, and truthfully the DULLEST thing about Egypt was the Pyramids. You are typical of Eurocentric trash....The Greeks did nothing but build the Parthenon and all else was dull...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: Yeah, a fool who solved the mystery of the Giza pyramids azimuth, positions and builders. If only there were more fools like that, huh?
Now here's a nice picture of the Negro Nefertiti. The mummy of Rameses II has red hair too, another common feature of Negros, Irish ones.
Yawn, No one is interested anymore, sorry but we have better things to do than to discuss this with you. You are ignorant, boring and racist. Your comments about Africa show your lack of even the most basics of Archaeology and you assumption that the Egyptians were "Irish" is laughable at best. I sugges you read our other threads such as Race of the Egyptians.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Bock bock bock bock! So this forum permits personal insults, huh? I guess it beats actually addressing the issues. Nefertiti looks more like a Greek lady than an African, and you know it. Africans don't have red hair, and you know that too. What people in the region did have red hair? That's right, the Phoenicians, which actually means red haired. There's your smoking gun in regard to where the AE came from, the same place the Phoenicians came from, wherever that, and it's NOT Africa. They apparently took some influences from the Africans they traded with but that doesn't make them Africans themselves. Since you won't be discussing it with me, I have the last word, always. I can live with that.
Posts: 59 | Registered: Jan 2009
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"The Phoenicians do not have their origin in Europe or in Africa. They were neither European nor where they black Africans. Their origin is in the eastern Mediterranean, as recent DNA studies prove -- they belong to the ancient Mediterranean sub-starum." http://phoenicia.org/ethnlang.htmlPosts: 59 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Oknaw, Seriously no one cares. This has been debated before and your ideas about Egypt coming from Phonecians is absurd, it goes agianst every aspect of Egyptian Archaeology, It goes agianst Egyptian cronocology, It goes agianst everything Egypt stands for.
You use TWO examples when Egypt is floded with examples of people that reprsent Africans. Nefertiti looks nothing like a Greek...the Nerve...Nefertit could pass for an Ethiopian and she has many other bust showing her with thick lips...Ramses hair was dyes nor was Ramses ever depicted as redhaired.
You a waste of time dude...Read the "Race of the Egyptians" thread(found at the top of each forum)....and maybe someone who cares will adress you.
Im an Architecture Major...I don't have time to waste on you. Trust me in this debate you wont win...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Oh, well, if you're an architecture major then I can certainly see how you would be far more qualified than me to comment on Egyptology. They're practically the same thing.
You're so smart that you think Rameses hair was dyed red. Well, let's see, shall we;
"Ramses II: Professor P. F. Ceccaldi, a famed Egyptologist, studied his mummy. Microscopic examinations showed that the hair roots contained natural red pigments, and that therefore, during his younger days, Ramesses II had been a red head. With age, his hair got even lighter. He also had wavy hair common among whites." http://guywhite.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/egyptian-mummies-with-blond-brown-and-red-hair/
Just go to that page and you'll see a whole lot of Egyptian mummies with red and blond hair. Interestingly, the first line of the page is rather pertinent to this very forum;
"It seems like nothing sparks blacks like Ancient Egyptians. They seem much more agitated over Egypt than questions such as IQ, crime and affirmative action."
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Admittedly, some of them probably did dye their hair with henna or similar dyes but the fact remains that the hair on those mummies is caucasian type hair. You can see that it's not negro type hair. here's an example image. It's Queen Hatshetrut. She's white, with nice white person hair, and she's happy about it;
Why don't you post your foolishness on the other Forum where it can be discredited completley. Now Read this info and stop with the stupid caucasian hair nonsense.
Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture
Christopher Ehret Professor of History, African Studies Chair University of California at Los Angeles
Ancient Egyptian civilization was, in ways and to an extent usually not recognized, fundamentally African. The evidence of both language and culture reveals these African roots.
The origins of Egyptian ethnicity lay in the areas south of Egypt.
Sir Alan Gardiner: These were long-headed-dolicocephalic is the learned term-and below even medium stature, but Negroid features are often to be observed. Whatever may be said of the northerners, it is safe to describe the dwellers in Upper Egypt as of essentially African stock , a character always retained despite alien influences brought to bear on them from time to time." (pg. 392; Egypt of the Pharaohs 1966)
Oh look more facts linking Egyptians to Africans
X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980).
Courtesy of James Harris and Edward Wente:
In terms of head shape, the XVIV and XX dynasties look more like the early Nubian skulls from the mesolithic with low vaults and sloping, curved foreheads.The XVII and XVIII dynasty skulls are shaped more like modern Nubians with globular skulls and high vaults.
Now we Have Links to Nubians. Can you believe that there is so much Facts linking Ancient Egyptians to Africans? Wait theres more
The people who bear the greatest resemblence to the ancient Egyptians, at present, are the Nubians; and next are the Abyssinians; are they Nubians; and next are the Abyssinians;
page 530
Edward Lane Manners and Customs of the Modern Egyptians
Still not done:
The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472
One more Fact and I am done:
Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues
A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)..... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: Oh, well, if you're an architecture major then I can certainly see how you would be far more qualified than me to comment on Egyptology. They're practically the same thing.
You're so smart that you think Rameses hair was dyed red. Well, let's see, shall we;
"Ramses II: Professor P. F. Ceccaldi, a famed Egyptologist, studied his mummy. Microscopic examinations showed that the hair roots contained natural red pigments, and that therefore, during his younger days, Ramesses II had been a red head. With age, his hair got even lighter. He also had wavy hair common among whites." http://guywhite.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/egyptian-mummies-with-blond-brown-and-red-hair/
Just go to that page and you'll see a whole lot of Egyptian mummies with red and blond hair. Interestingly, the first line of the page is rather pertinent to this very forum;
"It seems like nothing sparks blacks like Ancient Egyptians. They seem much more agitated over Egypt than questions such as IQ, crime and affirmative action."
Your an intellectual fraud, everything you post is full of crap. You want to pull me from my studies so I can debunk your sorry arse to play little childish games. Why should I even waste time....If you were even interested in Ancient Egypt and the cultural, Engineering and philosophical aspects thereof then you would know who the Ancient Egyptians were, what region they adapted in, the region their culture came from, How they saw themselves Ect. After all you only see the Egyptians as dull, the only thing they did of importance to you was the Pyramids. That in its own shows your ignorance of Ancient Egypt and its culture.
By the way I.Q has been debunked to hell and back.
Crime ...Get the F@ck out of here....You people killed HOW MANY Iraqis, You people Stole HOW MUCH MONEY from hard working Americans....You people WILL ALWAYS be the Biggest Criminals and Thugs in the WORLD so Get out of here with the B.S...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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First off for starters the Egyptians spoke an African derived language which was part of the Afro-Asiatic family.(The only Asian language is Arabic all other members of the family are African) Ancient Egyptian civilization was, in ways and to an extent usually not recognized, fundamentally African. The evidence of both language and culture reveals these African roots.
The origins of Egyptian ethnicity lay in the areas south of Egypt. The ancient Egyptian language belonged to the Afrasian family (also called Afroasiatic or, formerly, Hamito-Semitic). The speakers of the earliest Afrasian languages, according to recent studies, were a set of peoples whose lands between 15,000 and 13,000 B.C. stretched from Nubia in the west to far northern Somalia in the east. They supported themselves by gathering wild grains. The first elements of Egyptian culture were laid down two thousand years later, between 12,000 and 10,000 B.C., when some of these Afrasian communities expanded northward into Egypt, bringing with them a language directly ancestral to ancient Egyptian. They also introduced to Egypt the idea of using wild grains as food.
A new religion came with them as well. Its central tenet explains the often localized origins of later Egyptian gods: the earliest Afrasians were, properly speaking, neither monotheistic nor polytheistic. Instead, each local community, comprising a clan or a group of related clans, had its own distinct deity and centered its religious observances on that deity. This belief system persists today among several Afrasian peoples of far southwest Ethiopia. And as Biblical scholars have shown, Yahweh, god of the ancient Hebrews, an Afrasian people of the Semitic group, was originally also such a deity. The connection of many of Egypt's predynastic gods to particular localities is surely a modified version of this early Afrasian belief. Political unification in the late fourth millennium brought the Egyptian deities together in a new polytheistic system. But their local origins remain amply apparent in the records that have come down to us.
During the long era between about 10,000 and 6000 B.C., new kinds of southern influences diffused into Egypt. During these millennia, the Sahara had a wetter climate than it has today, with grassland or steppes in many areas that are now almost absolute desert. New wild animals, most notably the cow, spread widely in the eastern Sahara in this period.
One of the exciting archeological events of the past twenty years was the discovery that the peoples of the steppes and grasslands to the immediate south of Egypt domesticated these cattle, as early as 9000 to 8000 B.C. The societies involved in this momentous development included Afrasians and neighboring peoples whose languages belonged to a second major African language family, Nilo-Saharan (Wendorf, Schild, Close 1984; Wendorf, et al. 1982). The earliest domestic cattle came to Egypt apparently from these southern neighbors, probably before 6000 B.C., not, as we used to think, from the Middle East.
One major technological advance, pottery-making, was also initiated as early as 9000 B.C. by the Nilo-Saharans and Afrasians who lived to the south of Egypt. Soon thereafter, pots spread to Egyptian sites, almost 2,000 years before the first pottery was made in the Middle East.
Very late in the same span of time, the cultivating of crops began in Egypt. Since most of Egypt belonged then to the Mediterranean climatic zone, many of the new food plants came from areas of similar climate in the Middle East. Two domestic animals of Middle Eastern origin, the sheep and the goat, also entered northeastern Africa from the north during this era.
But several notable early Egyptian crops came from Sudanic agriculture, independently invented between 7500 and 6000 B.C. by the Nilo-Saharan peoples (Ehret 1993:104-125). One such cultivated crop was the edible gourd. The botanical evidence is confirmed in this case by linguistics: Egyptian bdt, or "bed of gourds" (Late Egyptian bdt, "gourd; cucumber"), is a borrowing of the Nilo-Saharan word *bud, "edible gourd." Other early Egyptian crops of Sudanic origin included watermelons and castor beans. (To learn more on how historians use linguistic evidence, see note at end of this article.)
Between about 5000 and 3000 B.C. a new era of southern cultural influences took shape. Increasing aridity pushed more of the human population of the eastern Sahara into areas with good access to the waters of the Nile, and along the Nile the bottomlands were for the first time cleared and farmed. The Egyptian stretches of the river came to form the northern edge of a newly emergent Middle Nile Culture Area, which extended far south up the river, well into the middle of modern-day Sudan. Peoples speaking languages of the Eastern Sahelian branch of the Nilo-Saharan family inhabited the heartland of this region.
From the Middle Nile, Egypt gained new items of livelihood between 5000 and 3000 B.C. One of these was a kind of cattle pen: its Egyptian name, s3 (earlier *sr), can be derived from the Eastern Sahelian term *sar. Egyptian pg3, "bowl," (presumably from earlier pgr), a borrowing of Nilo-Saharan *poKur, "wooden bowl or trough," reveals still another adoption in material culture that most probably belongs to this era.
One key feature of classical Egyptian political culture, usually assumed to have begun in Egypt, also shows strong links to the southern influences of this period. We refer here to a particular kind of sacral chiefship that entailed, in its earliest versions, the sending of servants into the afterlife along with the deceased chief. The deep roots and wide occurrence of this custom among peoples who spoke Eastern Sahelian languages strongly imply that sacral chiefship began not as a specifically Egyptian invention, but instead as a widely shared development of the Middle Nile Culture Area.
After about 3500 B.C., however, Egypt would have started to take on a new role vis-a-vis the Middle Nile region, simply because of its greater concentration of population. Growing pressures on land and resources soon enhanced and transformed the political powers of sacral chiefs. Unification followed, and the local deities of predynastic times became gods in a new polytheism, while sacral chiefs gave way to a divine king. At the same time, Egypt passed from the wings to center stage in the unfolding human drama of northeastern Africa.
A Note on the Use of Linguistic Evidence for History
Languages provide a powerful set of tools for probing the cultural history of the peoples who spoke them. Determining the relationships between particular languages, such as the languages of the Afrasian or the Nilo-Saharan family, gives us an outline history of the societies that spoke those languages in the past. And because each word in a language has its own individual history, the vocabulary of every language forms a huge archive of documents. If we can trace a particular word back to the common ancestor language of a language family, then we know that the item of culture connoted by the word was known to the people who spoke the ancestral tongue. If the word underwent a meaning change between then and now, a corresponding change must have taken place in the cultural idea or practice referred to by the word. In contrast, if a word was borrowed from another language, it attests to a thing or development that passed from the one culture to the other. The English borrowing, for example, of castle, duke, parliament, and many other political and legal terms from Old Norman French are evidence of a Norman period of rule in England, a fact confirmed by documents.
References Cited:
Ehret, Christopher, Nilo-Saharans and the Saharo-Sahelian Neolithic. In African Archaeology: Food, Metals and Towns. T. Shaw, P Sinclair, B. Andah, and A. Okpoko, eds. pp. 104-125. London: Routledge. 1993
Ehret, Christopher, Reconstructing Proto-Afroasiatic (Proto-Afrasian): Vowels, Tone Consonants, and Vocabulary. Los Angeles: University of California Press, Berkeley. 1995
Wendorf, F., et al., Saharan Exploitation of Plants 8000 Years B.P. Nature 359:721-724. 1982
Wendorf, F., R. Schild, and A. Close, eds. Cattle-Keepers of the Eastern Sahara. Dallas: Southern Methodist University, Department of Anthropology. 1984
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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There is no evidence that the Ancient Egyptians were displaced by an invading group of people, and the Culture aspects that led to the Unified Egyptian State was southern in origin and native to the Nile Valley an Africa as well.
Based on fossil and DNA evidence, modern humans may have existed in Africa as many as 140,000 years before they successfully colonized other parts of the world. Considering this from an evolutionary perspective, we should expect great diversity among indigenous Africans, and this is what has been found, even when northern African populations have been excluded from the research. All human populations exhibit biological variation in one way or another, and there is no single way to be biologically African—not by DNA, skin color, hair form, blood type, or variation of face and nose.
Fossil remains of modern humans have been found in the Nile Valley, including those of a child from Taramsa, in Egypt, believed to date to 60,000 to 50,000 years ago, though perhaps to as much as 80,000 years ago. The Nazlet Khater skeleton, also from Egypt, dates to around 33,000 years ago. Excavations in Egypt have also produced skeletal remains that date back to the cultures immediately preceding and following the first kings of a united Egypt, around 3100 B.C. By carefully using various scientific techniques, one can determine changes over time in the skeletal pattern of a particular place. The pattern of the craniofacial region and long bones is believed by most investigators to be helpful in understanding the forces of evolution on a population and, in some cases, when the pattern can be combined with other information, the population's region of origin. A similar pattern among different groups may indicate either a common ancestral origin, population interactions via intermarriage, and/or a common adaptive pattern related to the environment. Other information may help in assessing the meaning of similarity.
There has been scholarly interest in the biological variation and genealogical relationship of the ancient Egyptians to other populations outside of the Egyptian Nile Valley. There is no scientific reason to believe that the primary ancestors of the Egyptian population emerged and evolved outside of northeast Africa. Skeletal analyses have figured prominently in research. When comparisons to non-Egyptians are made, depending on which samples and methods are used, the craniofacial patterns of ancient Egyptian show a range of similarities to other African populations, Near Easterners, and Europeans. Overall, these studies can be interpreted as suggesting that the Egyptian Nile Valley's indigenous population had a craniofacial pattern that evolved and emerged in northeastern Africa, whose geography in relationship to climate largely explains the variation. Dental affinity studies generally agree with the craniofacial results, though they differ in the details. The body proportions of ancient Egyptians generally are similar to those of tropical (more southern) Africans.
Very little DNA has been retrieved from ancient Egyptian remains, and there are not many studies on the modern population. However, the results of analyses of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and the Y chromosome in the living Egyptian population show the existence of very old African lineages that are consistent with the fossil remains and of younger lineages of more recent evolution, along with evidence of the assimilation of later migrants from the Near East and Europe; mtDNA is passed only through the female line, from mother to offspring, and the relevant part of the Y chromosome, the nonrecombining section, passes only from father to son. The basic overall genetic profile of the modern population is consistent with the diversity of ancient populations that would have been indigenous to northeastern Africa and subject to the range of evolutionary influences over time, although researchers vary in the details of their explanations of those influences.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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The Neolithic (food-producing) cultures after 6000 B.C. in the Nile Valley became a part of the foundation for the ancient Egyptian way of life. The archaeology of early Egypt indicates continuity with local cultural traditions along the Nile as well influences from the Sahara, Sudan, and Asia (the Near East). The Neolithic cultures in northern Egypt show evidence over time of varying contacts, with Saharan influences the most dominant. In the case of food procurement, ancestral Egyptians living on Lake Fayum added to their tradition of foraging by raising Near Eastern domesticated plants (wheat and barley) and animals (sheep and goats). Domesticated cattle came from the Sahara but may also have come from the Near East. Considering that wheat and barley agriculture was practiced in Asia (the Near East) 2,000 years before it was in Egypt, it is important to note that the early Egyptian way of life did not change abruptly at this time (around 5000 B.C.), which is what one would expect if Egypt had simply been peopled by farmers migrating from the Near East. These early Egyptians incorporated the new food stuffs and techniques—and likely some people—into their culture and society on their own terms.
The major features of cultural and political development that led to dynastic Egypt originated in southern Egypt during what is called the predynastic period. Some evidence suggests that predynastic Egyptian and early Nubian cultures had ties to the early Saharan cultures and shared a Saharo-Nilotic heritage. Perhaps the earliest predynastic culture, the Badarian-Tasian* (4400 B.C. or earlier, to 4000 B.C.), had the clearest ties to Saharan cultures in the desert west of Nubia. The subsequent development, known as Naqada culture (3900 to around 3050 B.C.) by numerous scholars, had three phases and led directly to the 1st dynasty in southern Egypt without a break or evidence of foreign domination. It had three major centers in Upper Egypt, the small kingdoms of Naqada, Hierakonpolis, and Abydos, which came to be a much revered place in Egypt. The cemetery grounds of Abydos contain the largest tomb of a predynastic ruler, along with the burials of all the kings of the 1st dynasty. Naqada culture expanded north in its later phases, culturally incorporating northern Egypt before the 1st dynasty. There is also evidence at some sites—including Hierakonpolis, where the famous Narmer Palette was found—for interactions with Nubian societies, specifically one called the A-Group, whose kings shared some insignia with Egypt. By the time the 1st dynasty began, Egypt and Nubia were rivals; Egypt defeated the A-Group state and incorporated its territory, which became a part of the first province of Upper Egypt.
(*The existence of the Tasian as a distinct culture has been disputed, and it is usually treated as a part of the Badarian. Some Tasian and early Nubian pottery show striking similarities.)
Bibliography Bard, K. "The Egyptian Predynastic. A Review of the Evidence." Journal of Field Archaeology. Vol. 21 (1994), 265-88.
Hassan, F. A. "The Predynastic of Egypt." Journal of World Prehistory. Vol. 2 (1988), 135-85.
Klees, F., and R. Kuper. New Light on the Northeast African Past. Heinrich Barth Institut, 1992.
Midant-Reynes, B. The Prehistory of Egypt. Blackwell, 2000.
Wetterstrom, W. "Foraging and Farming in Egypt: The Transition From Hunting and Gathering to Horticulture in the Nile Valley." In The Archaeology of Africa. Routledge, 1993.
Williams, B. B. The A-Group Cemetery at Qustul: Cemetery L. University of Chicago, 1988.
Wilkinson, T. Early Dynastic Egypt. Routledge, 2001
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Egyptian Spearmen Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Gee, I don't understand. Can't everyone see the AEs are so Nordic & Celtic white that they all could've been card carrying Kluxers, just like our new inbred pal oKKKnaw0.
If it weren't so common it'd be amazing how these kemophobes always latch onto something African which hasn't been achieved by Euros and then, emporers new clothes style, declare the African originators of that which fascinates them to be white like themselves.
Ho hum.
Sad thing is, this could've been a decent pyramidiot thread until oKKKnaw0 infected his/her ignorant assumptions about Africa and blacks into it. But then maybe if handled gentler oKKKnaw0 may have been willing to learn as evidinced by his/her turn of mind when questioned on the source of his/her knowledge of an urbanless pre-colonial Africa.
Is there a lesson here for both us and him/her.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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"By the way I.Q has been debunked to hell and back. Crime ...Get the F@ck out of here....You people killed HOW MANY Iraqis, You people Stole HOW MUCH MONEY from hard working Americans....You people WILL ALWAYS be the Biggest Criminals and Thugs in the WORLD so Get out of here with the B.S..."
I didn't even say those things. That was a quote from the mummy hair website. I must wonder, though, why you would refer to the U.S. military as "you people" when, in fact, there are plenty of non-Caucasians in that military. You, sir, are clearly a rascist. How very disturbing that you people still exist, meaning blatant rascists. Take your anti-non-African hate somewhere more appropriate, like the Black Panthers meeting hall. Yeah, we know, you and Malcolm X are going to shoot us all with your AKs, right after you finish that spliff you're smoking. Blah blah blah.
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I forgot to mention, where'd all those mummies get that nice wavy and non-nappy Caucasian hair? Did they all use hair straightener? Your silly Negro Egyptians theory is conclusively proved wrong by the actual Egyptian mummies. I suppose the white race faked all those mummies, huh?
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Now here's some important Egyptology news. I have revised my pyramids theory based on new discoveries and more refined dating techniques. Since my dates are based on the pyramid azimuths, which I theorize to have been based on the position of Polaris at the time of the setting of Pollux, I realized that to be accurate I would have to take into account the height of the terrain on the horizon in the direction of Pollux as seen from the pyramid locations, Giza and Dahshur. Using Google Earth I obtained the elevations of the pyramid locations and the highest elevations in the direction of Pollux from there. Then by getting the distance between the pyramid locations and the high points I was able to calculate the precise altitude of Pollux when it disappeared below that horizon. So now I have the exact dates.
I also discovered the true basis for the positions of the Dahshur and Giza pyramids, which is not the same as in my original theory. The Great Pyramid does represent Dubhe but the Second Pyramid actually represents Kochab rather than Alkaid.
The Dahshur pyramids represent Betelgeuse and Rigel in the constellation Orion when Betelgeuse is on the South meridian. The Giza pyramids depict Dubhe and Kochab at that same time, but in a different year of course. So Sirius is not even involved, just Orion and the Big and Little Dippers. Here are the new images. Now my Egyptian pyramids theory is the most advanced on Earth.
quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: "By the way I.Q has been debunked to hell and back. Crime ...Get the F@ck out of here....You people killed HOW MANY Iraqis, You people Stole HOW MUCH MONEY from hard working Americans....You people WILL ALWAYS be the Biggest Criminals and Thugs in the WORLD so Get out of here with the B.S..."
I didn't even say those things. That was a quote from the mummy hair website. I must wonder, though, why you would refer to the U.S. military as "you people" when, in fact, there are plenty of non-Caucasians in that military. You, sir, are clearly a rascist. How very disturbing that you people still exist, meaning blatant rascists. Take your anti-non-African hate somewhere more appropriate, like the Black Panthers meeting hall. Yeah, we know, you and Malcolm X are going to shoot us all with your AKs, right after you finish that spliff you're smoking. Blah blah blah.
Please the only person racist here is you. Nothing but a waste of time, and the sad thing is YOU actually THINK you are important.
Your referecne to "Nappy" hair and your ignorance to The Egyptians body proportions and body Adaptions makes you even more of a fool. There are plenty of indiginous Aficans especially in the Area of the Nile vally that have Hair that isnt curly or as you put it NAPPY. Im if that is your only evidence of rebuttal then you are more dumb and supid than I thought.
You came on this site claiming Africans could'nt build their own societies, posting B.S about I.Q and White Egyptians. The only racist around here is you. Plus your use of Nappy as a valid description show how your feeble mind works.
The Egyptians were Africans, they were by far Dark Brown to Black skinned and the Saharah and Nubian/Sudan was the Domintant cultural factor in Egypt, not Europe or the Near East.
So go get an education, before it too late. Your nothing but an imbarassment to Egyptology. Your blog is "DULL", your theories "DULL". Ill bet no one even knows who you are.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Originally posted by Oknaw10: Oh, well, if you're an architecture major then I can certainly see how you would be far more qualified than me to comment on Egyptology. They're practically the same thing.
You're so smart that you think Rameses hair was dyed red. Well, let's see, shall we;
"Ramses II: Professor P. F. Ceccaldi, a famed Egyptologist, studied his mummy. Microscopic examinations showed that the hair roots contained natural red pigments, and that therefore, during his younger days, Ramesses II had been a red head. With age, his hair got even lighter. He also had wavy hair common among whites." http://guywhite.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/egyptian-mummies-with-blond-brown-and-red-hair/
Just go to that page and you'll see a whole lot of Egyptian mummies with red and blond hair. Interestingly, the first line of the page is rather pertinent to this very forum;
"It seems like nothing sparks blacks like Ancient Egyptians. They seem much more agitated over Egypt than questions such as IQ, crime and affirmative action."
I did go to the "guywhite" page you post, and the phrase "BS" comes to mind re his interpretations. Also to be noted is that he (or you) use Carleton Coons 1939 as your main reference! lol.. Other posters have already schooled you, but let's take another look at your "hair" claim. Also why are you claiming "wavy" hair as :white"? Wavy hair is routine in northeast, East Africa and elsewhere on the continent. Why aren't you argung for "straignt" white hair? Could it be because your own reference states that Rameses hair was not straight as in a "pure" white type? How come you want to use the "true negro" model with blacks but then become inconsistent where Caucasoids are concerned?
Mummification practices and dyeing of hair Hair studies of mummies note that color is often influenced by environmental factors at burial sites. Brothwell and Spearman (ref in Fletcher's works-1963) point out that reddish-brown ancient color hair is usually the result of partial oxidation of the melanin pigment. Other causes of hair color "blonding" involve bleaching, caused by the alkaline in the mummification process. Color also varies due to the Egyptian practice of dyeing hair with henna. Other samples show individuals lightening the hair using vegetable colorants. Thus variations in hair color among mummies do not necessarily suggest the presence of blond or red-haired Europeans or Near Easterners flitting about Egypt before being mummified, but the influence of environmental factors. --------
Egyptian practice of putting locks of hair in mummy wrappings.
Racial analysis is also made problematic by the Egyptian practice of burying hair, in many "votive or funerary deposits buried separately from the body, a practice found from Predynastic to Roman times despite its frequent omission from excavation reports." (Fletcher 2002) In examining hair samples Fletcher (2004) notes that care is needed to determine what is natural scalp hair, versus hair from a wig, versus hair extensions to natural locks. Tracking the exact source of hair is also critical since the Egyptians were known to have placed locks of hair from different sources among mummy wrappings. (The Search for Nefertiti, By Joann Fletcher, HarperCollins, 2004, p. 93-94, 96; Joann Fletcher, ANCIENT EGYPTIAN HAIR AND WIGS, THE OSTRACON THE JOURNAL OF THE EGYPTIAN STUDY SOCIETY, VOLUME 13, NUMBER 2; SUMMER 2002) -------------------------------------------------------------
Hair for wigs often obtained through trade not mass waves of "Caucasoid" migrants.
The use of wigs made of varying hair also complicates attempts at 'racial' analysis. Fletcher (2002) shows that many Egyptian wigs have been found with what is defined as straighter 'cynotrichous' hair. This however is hardly a marker of massive European or Near Eastern presence or admixture. Fletcher notes that the Egyptians often eschewed their own personal hair, shaving carefully and using wigs widely. The hair for these wigs was often obtained through trade. Indeed, "hair itself being a valuable commodity ranked alongside gold and incense in account lists from the town of Kahun." Egyptian trading links with other regions is well known, and a prized commodity like straighter 'cynotrichous' hair could have been easily obtained via the Sahara, Levant, the Maghreb, Mediterranean contacts, or even the hair of Asiatic war captives or casulaties from Egypt's numerous conflicts. -------------------------------------------------------------
Red-headed Ramses- routine for genetic variability in Africa not "whiteness"
Rameses came along comparatively late in Egyptian history, when outsiders toEgypt like the Hyskos were increasing in the region. Detailed microscopic analysis during the 1980s (Balout 1985) identified some of the hair of Egyptian Pharoah Rameses II as being a yellowish-red. Such a finding should not be surprising given the wide range of physical variability in Africa, the most genetically diverse region on earth, out of which flowed other population groups. Indeed, blondism and various other hair shades are not unknown in East Africa or Nubia, particularly in children, nor are such hair color variants uncommon in dark-haired or dark skinned populations like the Australians. (Hrdy 1978)
Given the range of genetic variability in Africa, a red-haired Rameses is hardly unusual. Rameses' reign, in the19th Dynasty, came over 1,500 years after the Egyptian state had been established, and after the Hyskos interlude. Such latecomers to Egypt, like the Hyskos, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs etc would add their own genetic strands to the nation’s mix. Whatever the blend of genes that occurred with Rameses, his hair offers little supposed "proof" of a "white" or "Nordic" Egypt. If anything, X-rays of the royal mummies by mainstream scientists show that the Egyptians pharoahs and other royals had several uncomfortable 'Negroid' leanings. (http://www.geocities.com/nilevalleypeoples/xraymu mmies1.htm) -------------------------------------------------------------
Red hair can be readily produced by dark-skinned populations- just check out Australia and pheomelanin
The finding of Rameses “red” hair also deserves further scrutiny. The analysis found evidence of dyeing to make the hair yellowish-red, but some elements were untouched by the dye. These elements of yellowish-red hair in Balout’s study, were established on the basis of the presence of pheomelanin, a red-brown polymeric pigment in the skin and hair of humans. However, pheomelanin can also be found in persons with dark brown or even black hair as well, which gives it a reddish hue. Most natural melanins contain sulfur, which is typically associated with pheomelanin. In scientific tests of melanin, black hair contained as much as 5% sulfur, 3% lower than the 8.8% found in Irish red hair, but exceeding the 2.3% found in Scandinavian blond hair. (Jolles, et al. 1996) Thus the yellowish-red hair discovered on Rameses is well within the range of human variation for dark haired people, whatever the exact gene combination that led to the condition.
As noted above, such variation began with ancient African populations. Most red hair is found in northern and western Europe, especially in the British Isles, and even then it appears in minor frequencies in Europe- some 4% of the population. It is unlikely such populations had any major contact or influence in the ancient Nile Valley. The analysis on Rameses also did not show classic "European" red hair but hair of a light red to yellowish tinge. Black haired or dark- skinned populations are quite capable of producing such yellowish-red color variants on their own, as can be seen in today's east and northeast Africa (see child's photo above). Nor is such color variation unusual to Africa. Native dark-skinned populations in Australia, routinely produce people witn blond or reddis hair. .
The analysis also found Rames' hair to be cymotrich or wavy, again a characteristic quite within the range of overall African or Nile valley physical and genetic diversity. A "pure" Nordic type of straight hair was thus not established for Rameses. Hence the notion of white Europeans or red-headed Caucasoids from other areas flowing into ancient Egypt to add hair variation.
----------------------- REFERENCES
Joann Fletcher, ANCIENT EGYPTIAN HAIR AND WIGS, THE OSTRACON THE JOURNAL OF THE EGYPTIAN STUDY SOCIETY, VOLUME 13, NUMBER 2; SUMMER 2002
The Search for Nefertiti, By Joann Fletcher, HarperCollins, 2004, p. 93-94, 96
Brothwell. D., and R. Spearman 1963 The hair of earlier peoples. In: Science in Archaeology. D. Brothwell and E. Higgs, eds. Thames and Hudeon, London, p. 427-436
Daniel Hrdy 1978- Analysis of Hair Samples of Mummies from Semna South, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, (1978) 49: 277-262)
Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa," American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 83:35-48 (1990
Hair Styles and History, by Cyril Aldred, The Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin, New Series, Vol. 15, No. 6 (Feb., 1957), pp. 141-147)
L. Balout, C. Roubet and C. Desroches-Noblecourt, and was titled La Momie de Ramsès II: Contribution Scientifique à l'Égyptologie (1985).
Formation and Structure of Human Hair: Biology and Structure, By Pierre Jollès, Helmut Zahn, H. Höcker, Birkhäuser, 1996, pp. 200-225
Read it and weep, then come back to ES for further instruction.Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Fine, I'm tired of talking about it. The subject of where the Egyptians were before they went to the lower Nile was somewhat intriguing for a little while but, let's face it, it's a very limited subject. It would be interesting if they HADN'T come from Africa, the most obvious place. It's actually a letdown that they were simply Africans who gradually moved Northward. Thanks for spoiling the fun with the boring reality.
Jari-Ankhamun may think my blog is dull but I enjoyed looking for the answers to some things that I considered interesting mysteries. I also enjoyed making the blog page and refining it over time. I don't need others to find it interesting. Some people just find major advancements in Egyptology dull, that's all.
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It is a favorite pastime on various white websites to cite Egyptian inscriptions against Nubian enemies as "example" of what Egyptians "really thought" about "blacks" and to claim "racial" war between Egyptian and Nubian.
The record however shows nothing of the sort. Egyptian and "Nubians" antagonism was political not racial. Mainstream Egyptologist Frank Yurco notes that of all peoples, the Nubians were ethnically the closest to the Egyptians. Yurco (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989). Yurco notes than the ancient Nile Valley peoples, including the ancient Egyptians as such were a diverse lot with a range of skin colors and facial features.
He suggests that some Middle Kingdom pharaohs, particularly some of the XII (12th) Dynasty show strong Nubian features, having a background in the Aswan region of southern Egypt. This dynasty ranks among the greatest of Egypt. He identifies the pharaoh Seqenenre (see below) as also having Nubian features, saying he was a distant relation of Nefertiti.[189] Dark skin thus does not mean "foreign" in Egypt, but is a routine part of the population.
As for Egyptian "sayings", here's some things that were said about "white" Middle Easterners or Asiatics if we are going to lay the “ethnic” game. (from Breasted's History of Egypt) History shows ‘whites’ beinge put to slave labor in Egypt, but Eurocentrics don't usually mention this, although quick to claim various peoples from the “Middle East” i.e. Asiatics, as "Caucasoids" when it suits them. But tey aren't consistent and say that this is what the Egyptians thought of white people for example. Its another variant of the "the negro" methodology. If its Nubian captives being rounded up then its “racial” but if ‘Caucasoids’ from the Middle East, well, then, that’s different.. Using their own approach, lets round up Egyptians text on assorted ‘Caucasoids’:
Subgugation and tribute from in Palestine:
"Tribute of the princes of Retenu, who came to do obeisance ... to the souls of his majesty... Now every harbor at which his majesty arrived was supplied with loaves and with assorted loaves, with oil, incense, wine, f[ruit] ---- abundant were they beyond everything ...
Subjugation and tribute from Lebanon:
The chieftains, lord of Lebanon, construct the royal ships in order that people may sail south in them to bring all the marvels of the "Garden" to the palace. LPH. ... The chieftains of Retjenu (Retenu) who drag the flagpoles by means of oxen to the shore, it is they who come with their dues to the place where his majesty is, to the Residence in ...... bearing all the fine products brought as marvels of the south and being taxed for tribute annually as (with) all bondsmen of his Majesty."
Operations against Asiatic 'Troglodytes':
"Then my Majesty made them take their oaths of allegiance as follows: never again shall we do anything evil against Menkheperre (another name for Thutmose III), may he live forever ... Then my Majesty had them set free on the road to their cities*). They went off on donkeys for I had seized their chariotry. I captured their inhabitants for Egypt and their property likewise." [W. Helck transl. by B. Cummings (1982), `Urkunden der 18. Dynastie', `Egyptian Historical Records of the Later 18th Dynasty']
"His majesty proceeded northward, to overthrow the Asiatics (Mntyw-Stt). His majesty arrived at a district, Sekmem (Skmm) was its name. His majesty led the good way in proceeding to the palace of `Life, Prosperity, and Health (L.P.H.,' when Sekmen had fallen, together with Retenu (Rtnw) the wretched, while I was acting as rearguard." [Breasted, `Records', Vol. I, Sec. 680] Time of Seti the Great - Presentation of Syrian Prisoners and Precious Vessels to Amon
"Smiting the Troglodytes, beating down the Asiatics (Mn·t·yw), making his boundary as far as the `Horns of the Earth', as far as the marshes of Naharin (N-h-r-n)." [Ibid., Vol. III, Sec. 118;]
"Slaying of the Asiatic Troglodytes (Ynw-Mn·t·yw [Menate, Manasseh]), all inaccessible countries, all lands, the Fenkhu of the marshes of Asia, the Great Bend of the sea (w'd-wr)."
Subjugation and tribute from Assur/Assyria area "The tribute of the chief of Assur (Ys-sw-r): genuine lapis lazuli, a large block, making 20 deben, 9 kidet; genuine lapis lazuli, 2 blocks; total, 3; and pieces, [making] 30 deben; total, 50 deben and 9 kidet; fine lapis lazuli from Babylon (Bb-r); vessels of Assur of hrrt- stone in colors, ---- very many." "Tribute of the chief of Assur: horses ---. A ---- of skin of the M-h-w as the [protection] of a chariot, of the finest of --- wood; 190(+x) wagons --- --- wood, nhb wood, 343 pieces, carob wood, 50 pieces; nby and k'nk wood, 206 pieces; olive oil, ------.." [BREASTED, Vol. II, Sec. 446, 449]
"Whites" put to slave labor in Egypt, but Eurocentrics don't usually mention this, although quick to claim the Middle Eastern Asiatics as "Caucasoids" on other occassions
from Project Guttenberg full text of: A HISTORY OF EGYPT FROM THE EARLIEST TIMES TO THE PERSIAN CONQUEST BY JAMES HENRY BREASTED, II, 760-1, 773. 2 II, 761.
Inscription "the Asiatics of all countries came with bowed head, doing obeisance to the fame of his majesty."
book text:
"Thutmose's war-galleys moored in the harbour of the town; but at this time not merely the iceaUh of Asia was unloaded from the ships; the Asiatics themselves, bound one to another in long lines, were led down the gang planks to begin a life of slave- labour for the Pharaoh (Fig. 119). They wore long matted beards, an abomination to the Egyptians ; their hair hung in heavy black masses upon their shoulders, and they were clad in gaily coloured woolen stuffs, such as the Egyptian, spotless in his white linen robe, would never put on his body.
Their arms were pinioned behind them at the elbows or crossed over their heads and lashed together ; or, again, their hands were thrust through odd pointed ovals of wood, which served as hand-cuffs. The women carried their children slung in a fold of the mantle over their shoulders. With their strange speech and uncouth postures the poor wretches were the subject of jibe and merriment on the part of the multitude ; while the artists of the time could never forbear caricaturing them. Many of them found their way into the houses of the Pharaoh's favourites, and his generals were liberally rewarded with gifts of such slaves; but the larger number were immediately employed on the temple estates, the Pharaoh's domains, or in the construction of his great monuments and buildings."
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Zarahan, don't "bore" Oknaw with posts jam-packed with facts or reality. "Fiction" mystery solving is more his/her flair, which is why he/she enjoys what he/she posts in his/her own blog.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Zarahan, don't "bore" Oknaw with posts jam-packed with facts or reality. "Fiction" mystery solving is more his/her flair, which is why he/she enjoys what he/she posts in his/her own blog.
Right you are. Who wants to hear about the Egyptians doing evil by attacking and enslaving other peoples? I get it, the Egyptians were as bad as the other people, like the Babylonians and Persians. How sad for them that were so primitive. That's why my only interest in them is in regard to the pyramids. Aside from that, they were just a typical ancient nation. They engaged in agriculture, built things from stone, had a rather silly theology and attacked their neighbors regularly. Congratulations to the Africans for being as crude as everybody else. At least the Mesoptamians had a form of writing that didn't involve drawing little pictures. Talk about inefficient, the Egyptians never got beyond the picture drawing form of writing and their mathematical skills were also very crude. An unimpressive people, to say the least.
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Tell us oKKKnaw0, how do you ignorami spell hieratic?
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Zarahan, don't "bore" Oknaw with posts jam-packed with facts or reality. "Fiction" mystery solving is more his/her flair, which is why he/she enjoys what he/she posts in his/her own blog.
lol.. you are right. But hell, maybe he will finally locate those missing ancient astronauts "responsible" for pyramid building.
Perhaps Takruri's script might spell "Clue Deficit Disorder" as far as Oknaw is concerned.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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You know I'm right; and you go onto demonstrate it, with this eloquent piece of fiction writing:
Who wants to hear about the Egyptians doing evil by attacking and enslaving other peoples? I get it, the Egyptians were as bad as the other people, like the Babylonians and Persians. How sad for them that were so primitive. That's why my only interest in them is in regard to the pyramids. Aside from that, they were just a typical ancient nation. They engaged in agriculture, built things from stone, had a rather silly theology and attacked their neighbors regularly. Congratulations to the Africans for being as crude as everybody else. At least the Mesoptamians had a form of writing that didn't involve drawing little pictures. Talk about inefficient, the Egyptians never got beyond the picture drawing form of writing and their mathematical skills were also very crude. An unimpressive people, to say the least. - Storytelling draft by Oknaw Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, never mind that crap. I just solved the pyramid positions and azimuths mystery for real. That's right, I can revise my theory as many times as I want, and this time I revised it properly.
Here's what the pyramids depict. It was at the time of vertical alignment between Betelgeuse and Alnitak. Obviously, the AE would not have missed the fact that those two stars are almost perfectly due South at that time, and the Dahshur pyramid positions prove that this is correct. The Dahshur pyramids are shown with South at the top, since they depict the southern stars. The Giza image is North up because they depict the northern stars. Giza in the North depicting the northern stars and Dahshur in the South depicting the southern stars. How is anyone ever going to improve on that?
quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: Here's what the pyramids depict. It was at the time of vertical alignment between Betelgeuse and Alnitak. Obviously, the AE would not have missed the fact that those two stars are almost perfectly due South at that time, and the Dahshur pyramid positions prove that this is correct. The Dahshur pyramids are shown with South at the top, since they depict the southern stars. The Giza image is North up because they depict the northern stars. Giza in the North depicting the northern stars and Dahshur in the South depicting the southern stars. How is anyone ever going to improve on that?
Gee, and how would you explain (if your theory were true) that these people of which you refer to as "non impressive" and "primitive" be able to advance such a thing over 4kya?
..and I quote,
quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: How sad for them that were so primitive.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote: Gee, and how would you explain (if your theory were true) that these people of which you refer to as "non impressive" be able to advance such a thing over 4kya?
..and I quote,
quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: How sad for them that were so primitive.
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Well, if I knew what 4kya meant I might have an answer. Not particularly difficult to transfer star positions to the ground. The difficult thing is figuring out later which stars they were depicting. As evidence of the difficulty, nobody correctly did it before me. Robert Bauval actually wrote a book about a connection between the Giza pyramids and Orion and completely missed the fact that it is the Dahshur pyramids that depict stars of Orion, and not the belt stars but the two brightest stars in the whole constellation. The problem is that there are so many possible stars to be depicted that it actually takes a lot of work to figure out the right ones. I certainly give the AE credit for some fine building work, but aside from that they were as primitive as any other peoples of that time and more primitive than some. Simple statement of fact. The Babylonians and Mesopotamians were more advanced in astronomy and mathematics and built stone structures just as impressive as the pyramids, if not more. Maybe not as massive, but size isn't everything.
Posts: 59 | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: Well, if I knew what 4kya meant I might have an answer.
You're telling us more about yourself than you would like. I'd advise you go somewhere else.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Oh, like the non-code speaking forum? Last I heard, there was no such word as 4kya. I suppose you mean 4000 years, which begs the question of why you didn't just write that. Pretty damn lazy, aren't you? Now I'd advise YOU to go elsewhere. Like a place where discussing mysteries of Egypt isn't involved, cuz you haven't solved one yet, that I know of, Mr. 4kya.
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quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: Last I heard, there was no such word as 4kya. I suppose you mean 4000 years
This is definitely the idiocy that you don't want everyone to see, please for your own interest; just leave. You lack basic fundamental knowledge; while trying to figure out something that needs to be fully understood from a biological standpoint, as well as a cultural one.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Oknaw10: Last I heard, there was no such word as 4kya. I suppose you mean 4000 years
This is definitely the idiocy that you don't want everyone to see, please for your own interest; just leave. You lack basic fundamental knowledge; while trying to figure out something that needs to be fully understood from a biological standpoint, as well as a cultural one.
Hmmm, let's see, should I just leave because that would make MindoverMatter718 happy? Actually, there's not much point in trying to carry on an intelligent conversation with anyone here. See ya!
Posts: 59 | Registered: Jan 2009
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