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If ancient Egyptians were of mixed ethnicity. What Ethnic groups did they come from
Posts: 13 | From: Melbourne Australia | Registered: Apr 2007
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i must admit i don't have a broad knowledge of Egyptians History. I read that they were (AEs) Of different ethnic groups. So i wanted to know who this groups were.
Posts: 13 | From: Melbourne Australia | Registered: Apr 2007
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Joined April 2007 with 10 posts. Where have you been???
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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ANSWER: Ancient Egyptians were not of mixed ancestry but were all *African* and thus black! Admixture did not occur until after dynastic or pharonic times!
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Kuule: What Ethnic groups did they come from
Whatever ethnic groups comprised the Nile valley and the Sahara at that time. There's no need to look anywhere else, except maybe small pockets of Levantine influence in the north (which is only a possibility, but not evident to any noticeable degree).
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Ancient Egyptians were their own distinct ethnic group. They assimilated other people into their society over the course of Egyptian history but they were primarily an indigenous population until settlers from Southern Europe and the Southwest Asia blended with the native people.
They looked like tropical East Africans.
Posts: 647 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: Ancient Egyptians were their own distinct ethnic group. They assimilated other people into their society over the course of Egyptian history but they were primarily an indigenous population until settlers from Southern Europe and the Southwest Asia blended with the native people.
They looked like tropical East Africans.
Correct. Too often many of the original stock ofegyopt are airbrushed away to present a white or Arab picture. There were DARK-SKINNED people in Egypt throughtout its history, particularly in Upper Egypt. Dark skin in Egypt does not equal "Nubian" or "foreign". It was there from the beginning no matter how much whitewashing and airbrushing the Egyptology establishment tries to do.
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Ebony Allen wrote: ------------------------------- Oh Lord. Here we go again. Same stuff over and over. -------------------------------
These clowns obviously get off on it. That's why they keep letting the race loons bait them.
They like it in a sick way. Also take note of those who refuse to participate in the pointless arguing with the race loons.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ANSWER: Ancient Egyptians were not of mixed ancestry but were all *African* and thus black! Admixture did not occur until after dynastic or pharonic times!
Come on you cant say that The Egyptians mixed with folks before the end of the Dynastic period but the majoity of the Egyptians were black Africans.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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^ Unfortunately some folks try to escape this reality through made up notions of North African 'caucasians' and such...
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Come on you cant say that The Egyptians mixed with folks before the end of the Dynastic period but the majoity of the Egyptians were black Africans.
Here's the thing. According to skeletal remains, we have no evidence of foreigners (non-Africans) in Egypt from predynastic times all to Middle Kingdom. It's during the Middle Kingdom that we have an influx of people from the Levant (Palestine-Syria region). These same people eventually took over as the 'Hyksos' but even after their expulsion there have been communities of Asiatics and even occasional peoples from the Aegean. Even after the Assyrian invasion, then the Persian invasion, then the Greek, and finally Roman, overall, the population has remained predominantly native (African) until the Arab invasion of the 7th century after which large scale admixture took place with Levantine and other 'Arab' groups and then Turks and Circassians during the Turkish Empire. But as Zarahan points out even today in the rural areas of Egypt especially in southern Egypt are more 'pristine' types preserved in such towns as Luxor, Sohag, and Aswan.
Now as far as actual ethnic groups, archaeology shows that during predynastic times the ancestors of the Egyptians were divided into different ethnic groups-- some coming west from the Sahara, others south from the Sudan, and still others from east around the Red Sea coast--- but ALL were African.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^^ More or less correct. Based on other similar posts I have seen you write on the topic, I do not think you are saying that there were absolutely, categorically no foreigners whatsoever in Egypt before the Middle Kingdom. There was trade back and forth with the Levant and the Mediterranean so some foreigners must have entered, if only to transport their goods, and Egypt carried out a number of military operations in Palestine so no doubt war captives or slaves would have entered. The question is how significant was this flow or presence of foreigners. You are correct in saying that research data shows no mass influx, and that ancient stocks like the Badari and others, were generally represenative overall of what ancient population would be before the huge influx of Arabs, Asiatics etc in later periods.
Also as shown repeatedly by research, the closest people ethnically to the Egyptians were Nubians, although this must be qualified by noting that at various times in AE history, Nubians were virtually indistinguishable from Egyptians. These facts have been established by solid mainstream scientific scholarship by people like Keita, Underhill, Williams, Ehret, etc.
Some play the "Nubian card" to boost up the idea of "black" foreigners but as noted above, dark skin is part of Egyptian ethnicity. If "Nubians" never existed there would STILL be a massive number of dark-skinned people who are native Egyptians, particularly in Upper Egypt, with links to the Saharan/Sudanese zones, so the "Caucasoid" Egypt -> Black Nubia model falls flat like a hand of bad cards. And attempts to turn conflict between Egypt and Nubia into some sort of "racial war" are equally stupid. No one seriously says wars between related peoples like England and France are "racial". It is only where African peoples in the Nile Valley are concerned that such type of nonsense gets published as scholarship, or fills blog pages.
More info on the Nubians for the archives:
“The ancient Egyptians referred to a region, located south of the third cataract the Nuke River, in which Nubians dwelt as Kush.. Within such context, this phrase is not a racial slur. Throughout the history of ancient Egypt there were numerous, well documented instances that celebrate Nubian-Egyptian marriages. A study of these documents, particularly those dated to both the Egyptian New Kingdom (after 1550 B.C.E.) and to Dynasty XXV and early Dynasty XXVI (about 720-640 BCE), reveals that neither spouse nor any of the children of such unions suffered discrimination at the hands of the ancient Egyptians. Indeed such marriages were never an obstacle to social, economic, or political status, provided the individuals concerned conformed to generally accepted Egyptian social standards. Furthermore, at times, certain Nubian practices, such as tattooing for women, and the unisex fashion of wearing earrings, were wholeheartedly embraced by the ancient Egyptians." (Bianchi, 2004: p. 4)
"It is an extremely difficult task to attempt to describe the Nubians during the course of Egypt's New Kingdom, because their presence appears to have virtually evaporated from the archaeological record.. The result has been described as a wholesale Nubian assimilation into Egyptian society. This assimilation was so complete that it masked all Nubian ethnic identities insofar as archaeological remains are concerned beneath the impenetrable veneer of Egypt's material; culture.. In the Kushite Period, when Nubians ruled as Pharaohs in their own right, the material culture of Dynasty XXV (about 750-655 B.C.E.) was decidedly Egyptian in character.. Nubia's entire landscape up to the region of the Third Cataract was dotted with temples indistinguishable in style and decoration from contemporary temples erected in Egypt. The same observation obtains for the smaller number of typically Egyptian tombs in which these elite Nubian princes were interred. (Bianchi, 2004, p. 99-100)
- Robert Bianchi ( 2004). Daily Life of the Nubians. Greenwood Publishing Group
Quote: "the XIIth Dynasty (1991-1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region.4 As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty- that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies."
- (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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I like the Idea of not refering to any group of people who lived south of the border of Kemet as Nubians.Because no state called Nubia existed untill the middle ages.If we can be dissipliend and called the people by their actuall names it would eventually catch on,it hard but we must try to retrain ourselves on these matters.For ex the word Kemet Forces people to come to terms with it's blackness the way Egypt never could.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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^Indeed, one can point out so many fallacies and contradictions in the above quotes and mainly Yurco's who arbitrarily refers to southern Egyptians as "Nubians".
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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I'm sorry I can't list their individual names right now but ancient Egypt (pre-dynastic through New Kingdom was primarily composed of migrants from what's now Sudan -- both Nilotic Sudan and Saharan Sudan.
In smaller numbers, some people we now call Libyan (though they don't seem to have come from so far westward) were in the northmost regions.
The ethnies comprising the above set of the earliest peopling of ancient Egypt were all somewhat related culturally. In addition to them a small trickle of Levantines, no more than a shake of pepper, were also in the far north and contributed very little if anything at all to the making of ancient Egypt but integrating themselves into the advanced culture they encountered.
I'm not sure what role peoples in desert east of the Nile or in the Sinai played at the beginnings but at least those immediately east of the Nile played a role in ancient Egypt's society.
quote:Originally posted by Kuule: If ancient Egyptians were of mixed ethnicity. What Ethnic groups did they come from
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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As far as the actual names of these predynastic people, one that comes to mind are the Anu people whom Petrie and other early archaeologists described as Sudanese in origin and are likely closely related to the Setjau people of Ta-Seti whom the Egyptians consider the first kingdom. Another name is the Mesenitu that I believe is associated with eastern Nile and Red Sea coast dwellers. There are probably others described in their earliest Egyptian texts. I don't know what the Western Desert and Oases dwellers were called but it was these people who invented the custom of mummification and are probably related to the later Libyan people Tehenu.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Names like Khufu and Khafre should be enough to convince people that they were blacks. And they spoke an Afro-Asiatic language which is a black language. Nordic whites speak Indo-European.
Posts: 603 | From: Mobile, Alabama | Registered: Jan 2007
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^ I agree with the first sentence, but not the others. A language can't be labeled by the speakers alone i.e. 'black' or 'white' but by its origin. Hence Afrasian is African in origin and most of its speakers are African but the Semitic branch is spoken outside of Africa by many non-blacks. The same can be said about Indo-European which many think originated in Eastern Europe. The most Nordic peoples of polar Scandinavia, the Saami don't speak Indo-European languages at all but there are black people in Sri-Lanka who do speak Indo-European.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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