quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: While some Euros do consider mulattos black no western culture save the USA has a one drop rule that excludes people of any known slavery era African antecedents from being other than black.
There is no passing for white. A phenetically
European person is white and no type of black.
Ibero-America has precise terms down to the finest gradients for people, admixed or not.
They choose to identify either black or white, but such admixtures are neither black nor white. Outside of the USA I think this holds true for western culture and of course so for Arab and African cultures not kowtowing to USA norms.
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: Originally posted by alTakruri: You define phentetic European one-droppers as criterially fit blacks?
I listed criteria that are/have been used in western culture for being called black, not necessarily my own.
the U.S.A does not have a one drop rule this is 2010.
If you look up the history of the one drop rule you will find that at the time numerous variations of race laws were practiced as per different states with different criteria.
also see Creole
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
There is no passing for white. A phenetically European person is white and no type of black.
to determine if a person phenetically European is subjective, ambiguous
quote:Bottom line: Black according to any utilization can be inferred with one's eyes
No one can "see" your definition of a "black" person dumbo. They can only agree with your idea of what constitutes a "black person"...and disagree with it.
quote:Beauty... co-determined by factors such as personal experience, current standards, cultural preferences, the feelings one has toward the subject, beliefs, rationalizations etc.
This goes for what constitutes a "black" person too, dumbo.
quote:Conclusion: That society has accumulated different ways to conclude which and to what extend a given people or individual is black has noting to do with subjectiveness.
That different people even within the same society have at different times accumulated different ways to conclude which and to what extend a given people or individual is black has everything to do with its subjectivity.
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: This is different from the utilizations of the word ''black'', as every single one of them can be readily observed, and agreed upon by two honest dissenting parties when knowing what criteria are used.
Only problem for you is that people will disagree with your criteria "utilizations" (LOL) of the word "black" for a person, just as they would for what constitutes a "beautiful person". Was Denny Mendez Miss Italy "black" and "beautiful"? Based on certain criteria created, she is both...then again she is just one, or none. You lose again DUMBO.
quote:All criteria to call someone black
Criteria created by a subjective mind. If agreed upon by a power elite or those of influence in the creation of a social system, it is simply ideas materialized.
quote:None of the above is subjective
They all are dummy.
quote:That ends the whole debate right there.
LOL
quote:I listed criteria that are/have been used in western culture for being called black
LOL! which does not mean it is not subjective. The term "black" is not even agreed upon or fixed within "western" culture itself and has gone through many changes, from "traditional" one drop rule to "postmodern" definitions of "black". Why? Because who is a "black person" is subjective. "black person" "white person" are simply "mental constructs that we use as labels to give meaning to external entities."
quote:I have moved on from the Moses to Shem colour topic.
Yeh, Rev. Kalonji lost that one too. lol
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Since you are replying to my posts I might as well try my luck again....
quote:the influx of lighter skinned people into Mesopotamia by the time the bible was authored - Rev. Kalonji
The bible was "authored" by the time lighter skinned people came into Mesopotamia? The time of Semites, Akkandians etc? Isn't this about the 2000-1800s BC ...how the fuk could this be? Wasn't "Moses" suppose to be the author of first five books of the Hebrew fairytale? LOLOLOLOLOLOL Dates please?
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Yes there are many types of blacks, we don't all look alike.
Aeschylus has the king of the Argives list many a type of black when the Danaids proclaim Argive ancestry. The white king not seeing in them any modicum of whiteness tells them who he thinks their most likely relatives are
quote: "O stranger maids, I may not trust this word, That ye have share in this our Argive race. No likeness of our country do ye bear, But semblance as of Libyan womankind. Even such a stock by Nilus' banks might grow; Yea, and the Cyprian stamp, in female forms, Shows, to the life, what males impressed the same. And, furthermore, of roving Indian maids Whose camping-grounds by Aethiopia lie, And camels burdened even as mules, and bearing Riders, as horses bear, mine ears have heard; And tales of flesh-devouring mateless maids Called Amazons: to these, if bows ye bare, I most had deemed you like. Speak further yet, That of your Argive birth the truth I learn."
.
500 years later comes Manilius who after listing white peoples give us the countries with various types of blacks
quote: "Ethiopia stains the world painting humankind deeply dark Less does India's sun toast its progeny Egypt-land's Nile leniently irrigates bodies dark a country nearer us, with moderate climate imparting medium tone Sol dries peoples of Africa's dusty desert land While Mauretania's name proclaims colour in skin and face."
.
700 more years pass and al~Jahiz pens who the Zanj reckon a type of black
quote: "And they said, 'The number of blacks is greater than the number of whites, because most of those who are counted as whites are comprised of peoples from Persia, the mountains, Khurasan, Rome, Slavia, France, and Iberia, and anything apart from them is insignificant.
But among the blacks are counted * Zanj * Ethiopians * Fezzani * Berbers * Copts * Nubians * Zaghawa * Moors
the people of * Sind * the Hindus * the Qamar * the Dabila * the IndoChinese
and those beyond them. The sea is more extensive than the land, and the islands in the sea between IndoChina and Zanzibar are full of blacks, like the * Sarandib * Kalah * Amal * Zabij and its islands up to Hindustan and IndoChina
Kabul and those coasts.
"They said, 'The Arabs come from us -- not from the whites -- because of the similarity of their colour to ours. The Hindus are more yellow in color than the Arabs, yet they are counted among the black peoples."
.
The only type, so-called 'black,' who may be mostly white is the one-drop kind.
Readily seen, that variety goes haply missing from Aeschylus, Manilius and al~Jahiz. Besides the make believe 'one-drop' 'blacks' some other types of real blacks were unknown to them; Australians, Papuans, Melanesians, and so.
This info shouls be reposted onto another thread..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Then cunster why on earth have you been hounding Kalonji over his opinion that a mythical figure Moses was not black?
Are these your words or not Cunny?
quote: They can imagine Moses belonging to given ethic group, yes, but it doesn't follow that because he was "imagined" as a Levantine he did not look like Egyptians in the story since 1. its a myth and doesn't follow logic 2. even *if* it did, the Levant wasn't a pure homogeneous population anyway. There were still some blacks there post-Natufian.
quote: They said there were no blacks, absolutely no blacks, post-Natufian Israel?
quote: LOL "Israelite" was not exclusive to phenotype, it was exclusive to those who believed in the god Yahweh, a god that was given to them by an African/Egyptian. The figure "Moses" could have been imagined as a light-skinned (the dominant type there) Levantine, phenotypically distinguished from AE, as well as, he could have been imagined black like the Egyptians,
quote: Israel" was predominantly light skinned "Asiatic" (I think, I dont really give a shyt), AE was predominantly black African - making blanket statements about "Moses'" looks, either way, nonsensical.
quote: Where does it say Moses was not black, or even lived? Lol
If it's subjective then why not accept kalonji view as just that dim wit? You know why? Because it's not subjective assh01e
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
AOB aka Cunny declared that Hammer is just as correct in declaring AE white as those who delcare them to be black. Here's how Cunny put it:
quote:Scientifically, he would be as wrong as those saying they were "black".
So those who say that AE was predominantly black, including Cunny himself, are wrong. But Cunny, fortunately, we have other voices on the subject. We're right Hammer is wrong
quote:Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin
Here's another one:
quote:"Intralimb (crural and brachial) indices are significantly higher in ancient Egyptians than in American Whites (except crural index among females), i.e., Egyptians have relatively longer distal segments (Table 4). Intralimb indices are not significantly different between Egyptians and American Blacks... Many of those who have studied ancient Egyptians have commented on their characteristically ''tropical'' or ''African'' body plan (Warren, 1897; Masali, 1972; Robins, 1983; Robins and Shute, 1983, 1984, 1986; Zakrzewski, 2003). Egyptians also fall within the range of modern African populations (Ruff and Walker, 1993), but close to the upper limit of modern Europeans as well, at least for the crural index (brachial indices are definitely more ''African''
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Well according to the resident dumbo, *if* you "declare" beauty as X then everyone possessing X MUST be beautiful by that definition. LOL!!!!
You're an absolute dunce. The point is that beauty unlike phenotype is subjective Cunny.
Cunny wrote:
quote:who the fuk is "we" that declared an objective definition for a "black person" that "everyone" had to agree on?
Ask yourself this when you're trying to force Kalonji into agreeing with you that a mythical figure was black.
quote:A "black person" is subjective
Then so too is a red light. The next time you approach a railroad crossing and the light is flashing red do this: put you head on the tracks close your eyes and repeat over and over the lessons your white master taught you in postmodernism: the red light is subjective! All can be changed!
Cunny wrote:
quote:All can be changed, argued and debated.
I know you honestly believe this because we've all seen your futile attempt at rewriting history and excusing your white christian masters from the crime of slavery. We've also seen it to with your attempt at burnishing the image of the butcher Savimbi.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:All can be changed, argued and debated. Postmodernism 101.
I don't really take too deep an interest in the European's philosophy and angst here's why - Fanon 101 (I'm paraphasing): "No European priest, moral teacher, or philosopher ever offered himself in place of the African slave"
Postmodernism is probably where you learned to be such an Uncle Tom.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Then cunster why on earth have you been hounding Kalonji over his opinion that a mythical figure Moses was not black? ... Ask yourself this when you're trying to force Kalonji into agreeing with you that a mythical figure was black.
Learn to read Apokopo, I said I didn't give a shyt about his interpretation that he was not black. There is no proof either way its a myth.
quote:If it's subjective then why not accept kalonji view as just that dim wit?
Actually I do accept his (and Great Jew's) criteria for a "black" person (which still makes "black" subjective) just not his opinion that "Moses" was conceived by the Hebrew myth makers as nonblack. Or his opinion that Moses even lived!
quote: AOB aka Cunny declared that Hammer is just as correct in declaring AE white
LOL then the illiterate goes on to quote me "Scientifically, he would be as wrong as those saying they were "black"." LOL
He even goes on to quote something about "Negroid origin", one of the most pernicious of European constructs! Moving on.
quote: The point is that beauty unlike phenotype is subjective Cunny.
The concept of "beauty", like black, is also based on [various] phenotype, dummy. Also on other personal attributes: "whats the difference between a black man and a nigger?" - Watts Prophets
quote:I don't really take too deep an interest in the European's philosophy and angst here's why - Fanon 101 (I'm paraphasing): "No European priest, moral teacher, or philosopher ever offered himself in place of the African slave"
Funny, since you support the Marxist MPLA and quote the Marxist Fanon. Wasn't Marx a European "moral teacher"/Philosopher? Contradictions. LOserL!
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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Then so too is a red light. The next time you approach a railroad crossing and the light is flashing red do this: put you head on the tracks close your eyes and repeat over and over the lessons your white master taught you in postmodernism: the red light is subjective! All can be changed!
LOLLL
The idiot can't make subtle distinctions. He fails to recognize that there is a difference between unprocessed descriptions (black, aquiline nose, thin lips) and processed sensory input: ascriptions (beautiful, ugly).
quote: Originally posted by Anguishofbeing: The concept of "beauty", like black, is also based on [various] phenotype, dummy.
quote:who the fuk is "we" that declared an objective definition for a "black person" that "everyone" had to agree on?
Ask yourself this when you're trying to force Kalonji into agreeing with you that a mythical figure was black.
let me teach you something about objective colors:
Colorimetry is "the science and technology used to quantify and describe physically the human color perception." It is similar to spectrophotometry, but is distinguished by its interest in reducing spectra to the physical correlates of color perception, most often the CIE 1931 XYZ color space tristimulus values and related quantities. The absolute spectral power distribution of a light source can be measured with a spectroradiometer, which works by optically collecting the light, then passing it through a monochromator before reading it in narrow bands of wavelength.
Objective colors:
RED
YELLOW
BROWN
LIGHT BROWN (brown mixed with white)
BLACK
GREY (black mixed with white)
BROWN skinned man with BLACK hair Papua new Guinea
objective colors
anything else is the subjective application of race concepts, changing the accurate measurable meaning of color
If you want to argue put up scientific defintions
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
unprocessed descriptions: black (which is itself misleading since "black peoples" skin tone isn't really black), aquiline nose, thin lips then leads to processed sensory input: ascriptions (beautiful, ugly, a "black person" a "mixed" person a "white man" etc.) Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote: Originally posted by Anguishofbeing:(which is itself misleading since "black peoples" skin tone isn't really black)
So you have found out the first criterion (coal black) doesn't always apply to people who are called black? Good for you. Does that make it subjective? Is rounding off decimals in mathematics subjective?
quote: Originally posted by Anguishofbeing: aquiline nose, thin lips then leads to processed sensory input:
Black skin colors are just as much sensory input as aquiline features, you dunce. You ''forgot'' to include the word ''black'' here among sensory input so you could relocate it to the ascription category:
quote: Originally posted by Anguishofbeing: ascriptions (beautiful, ugly, a "black person" a "mixed" person a "white man" etc.)
You still fail to recognize that ''black person'' is still a description, as it's descriptive, ie, free of meaning. Whatever meaning is derived depends on context and personal filters (beliefs) and is not carried in the words. ''Black person'' is unlike ascriptions such as ''beautiful'', ''ugly'' that are in and of themselves laced with meaning.
Epic fail.
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: The idiot can't make subtle distinctions. He fails to recognize that there is a difference between unprocessed descriptions (black, aquiline nose, thin lips) and processed sensory input: ascriptions (beautiful, ugly).
quote: Originally posted by Anguishofbeing: The concept of "beauty", like black, is also based on [various] phenotype, dummy.
posted
Again you have reach the end of your line. You're just repeating your nonsense to save face as usual. See my last post for a reply to your regurgitated BS. Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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* Brown people of African (or other black sources of) descent who are ‘’misleadingly’’ called black, since rounding something off to the nearest extreme is not subjective. * It's not found in the different descriptive criteria that ''even people in the same society have accumulated''. * It's not found in your erroneous comparison with ''beauty'', since beauty is super-ordinate to sensory input such as ''black'', as demonstrated. * It’s not found in that people differ in opinions, and may or may not describe Denny Mendez as ‘’black’’. Different people choose to go by/give weight to different criteria as has been explained to you before, though all criteria are descriptive and quantifiable.
I schooled you on the difference between the ruler (accurate) and the measurer (prone to mistakes) before.
Where is the subjective part, Angelina? Where is your next escape hatch?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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See above for my replies to your repeated BS. I'm done chasing your dumbass.
A "black person" and a "white person" are simply "mental constructs that we use as labels to give meaning to external entities."Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: [QB] Your subjective ''black'' is not found in:
* Brown people of African (or other black sources of) descent who are ‘’misleadingly’’ called black, since rounding something off to the nearest extreme is not subjective.
1) what are the other geographical regions that are not Africa?
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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You lose again DUMBO.
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