posted
^ To be honest I am somewhat suspicious of the blue eyes. In all past depictions I've seen of the statue the eyes were darker. I hate to jump to the conclusion of alteration conspiracies but then again the original dark paint was literally air-brushed off. So replacing the eyes with blue glass marbles wouldn't be too far off.
Also, your whole cherry-picked point is moot since the scribe like all ancient Egyptians were still black Africans.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ To be honest I am somewhat suspicious of the blue eyes. In all past depictions I've seen of the statue the eyes were darker. I hate to jump to the conclusion of alteration conspiracies but then again the original dark paint was literally air-brushed off. So replacing the eyes with blue glass marbles wouldn't be too far off.
Also, your whole cherry-picked point is moot since the scribe like all ancient Egyptians were still black Africans.
And what real proof do you have that the original paint has been airbrushed off? Please show us the proof and not something that is your mere opinion.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Uhmm, because remnants of the original dark brown pigment are still scattered on the statue.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: all ancient Egyptians were still black Africans.
This is an Indian man:
1) If he is a Black Asian because his skin is relatively dark then all Egyptians may have been Black.
But if the above Indian man is not Black yet still has dark skin then you cannot say all Egyptians are Black.
2) Regardless of how you define black (or don't define it) the statement that all Egyptians were black is unprovable and will remain unprovable forever.
There are many images like the above. Is the man on the right "black" entirely due to his medium brown skin tone? Is he black because certain anthropologists have examined a certain number of skeletal remains of ancient Egyptians and have speculated on the entire dynastic Egyptian population?
3) If in ancient times somebody who lived in Somalia migrated to Egypt and started living there how long would they or their descendants have to live there to be regarded as Egyptians?
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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1) If he is a Black Asian because his skin is relatively dark then all Egyptians may have been Black.
This is your imagination, that you add a falsely premised caveat to.
There is not a straw of evidence that AE figures looked anything like this guy. In fact, they were generally displayed in a lot darker pigmentation, well within the tropical African continuum.
quote:
2) Regardless of how you define black (or don't define it) the statement that all Egyptians were black is unprovable and will remain unprovable forever.
I guess with your anti-African emotionalism, "packed with melanin" doesn't count for jack as empirical proof to you, of what thousands of images of AE figures relay in the dark pigmentation of Kemetic figures and what their body proportions communicate. Your behavior can be likened to looking at the grass, but still denying that it is green, and swearing that the color can never be demonstrated to have existed.
quote: 3) If in ancient times somebody who lived in Somalia migrated to Egypt and started living there how long would they or their descendants have to live there to be regarded as Egyptians?
It wouldn't matter, because Somalians are by far more closely related to native AEs than that Indian guy you posted, and used as some kind of litmus test for AE authenticity. You are the opposite spectrum of Clyde...make ridiculous wide-eyed attempts to de-Africanize indigenous Africans and relate them closer to people that they have the least chance of being closely related to.
^Yeah, they sure look like that Indian. LOL
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
If some guy have blue eyes or a 100 or even a 1000 does not change the fact of Ta-Seti as the 1st nome of Kemet and not Naqada complete with royal paraphernalia first found in and about the area of Ta-Seti,or on rocks at Glif-El Kabir, Kargur Talh,Nabta Playta,that the Ta-Setians had royal palaces and traded with the people of the Levant directly without the need for a Kemetian middleman should be lost on no one because at that stage Kemites did not have a state.
Göbekli Tepe do you no good because if you are looking for a certain phenotype for those sites.
Originally posted by Calypso: BONES OF CANNIBALS A PALESTINE RIDDLE Wireless to THE NEW YORK TIMES. New York Times 1857; Aug 4, 1932; ProQuest Historical Newspapers The New York Times (1851 - 2003) pg. 21
Negroid people of 5000 B. C. ATE BODIES OF ENEMIES Men, Short of Stature, Burned Bones of Dead After Burial, London Session Hears. TEETH OF WOMEN DRAWN Linking relics to Burnt Skeletons from Ur scientist speculate an old cremation custom.
Seven or eight thousand years ago in what geologist call modern times a race of negroid cannibals lived In Palestine, burned the bones of their dead after burial, and devoured the bodies of their enemies. Skulls and thighbones of this race were unearthed within the last four years, first at Shukbah near Jerusalem and later in caves at Mount Carmel, and because they puzzled the excavators who found them they received the new name “Natufians.”
Today the first authoritative account of them was given by Sir Arthur Keith to the congress of Prehistoric and Protohistoric Sciences and showed them to be one of the greatest riddles of archaeology.
They were clearly a Negroid people, said Sir Arthur, with wide faces flat- noses and long large heads.
They were short of stature 5 feet 3 or 4 inches tall-and their thighs and legs were remarkably strong.
While their arms and shoulders were weak.
Alone Among prehistoric peoples they had a custom of extracting the two upper central incisor teeth of their women.
Jagged holes in the fronts of their skulls indicate that they ate human brains.
They may have been ancestors or the Arabs or Semites of biblical times, in Sir Arthur's opinion.
They had some facial characteristics like those of the Neolithic or late Stone Age men of Malta and the remoter Aurignacian men of Southern Europe.
Natufian remains, it should be remembered, are in no way connected with the more recent discoveries of a new race of fossil men, also in caves, near Mt Carmel. The fossil men, so remarkably different from all others yet found, became extinct in the remotely distant past, while the Natufians may still have been living when the first city-states of Sumeria arose.
Sir Arthur based his conclusions today on twenty comparatively complete skulls of eighty-seven found by Miss Garrod.
Cites Features of Race
“Several features stand out quite definitely'' he asserted; first the Natufians were a long-headed people - they had cap-shaped occiputs (the lower back part of the head).
Secondly, the dimensions or their heads were greater than in the pre-dynastic Egyptians.
Thirdly, their faces were short and wide. Fourthly, they were prognathous (with projecting jaws). Fifthly, their nasal bones were not narrow and high, but formed a wide, low arch.
Sixthly, their chins were not prominent, but were masked by the fullness of the teeth-bearing parts of the jaw.
“The Natufians at Shukbah seem to have practiced cannibalism, for it is only by making this supposition that one can explain the cutting and fracturing of bones. The characters of the cuts and the broken surfaces show the bones were still in a fresh state when the damage was done. I believe the Shukbah people ate human brains.”
The cannibalism theory was strongly disputed by Professor Elliott smith, eminent geologist, who said he was entirely skeptical of it.
Also Professor Smith said it was not uncommon in Egypt to find burned bones in graves.
Professor Smith objected, too, that it was hardly possible that these people had had Negro blood, but Sir Arthur speedily corrected him. By the word Negroid he meant merely Negro-like characteristics such as are found throughout Europe and even in Scandinavia. Sir Arthur drew the inference that the Natufians had carried Aurignacian culture into Palestine after the last glacier age, which was approximately 35000 years ago.
So says a perhaps inaccurate report 70 odd yrs ago about the cultural aspect.
This is one of the many sites in West Africa that was contemporary with pre-dynastic, archaic, and Old Kingdom Egypt. Here's an extract from an otherwise unavailable for free article by one of the subject's main scholars covering Tichitt's last phases.
Coping with uncertainty: Neolithic life in the Dhar Tichitt-Walata, Mauritania, (ca. 4000–2300 BP)
Augustin F.C. Holl
Abstract The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes. These herders took advantage of the peculiarities of the local geology and environment and succeeded in domesticating bulrush millet – Pennisetum sp. The emerging agropastoral subsistence complex had conflicting and/or complementary requirements depending on circumstances. In the long run, the social adjustment to the new subsistence complex, shifting site location strategies, nested settlement patterns and the rise of more encompassing polities appear to have been used to cope with climatic hazards in this relatively circumscribed area. An intense arid spell in the middle of the first millennium BC triggered the collapse of the whole Neolithic agropastoral system and the abandonment of the areas. These regions, resettled by sparse oasis-dwellers populations and iron-using communities starting from the first half of the first millennium AD, became part of the famous Ghana “empire”, the earliest state in West African history.
quote:Where are your advanced sites, sculptures, murals etc south of Egypt predating those in the Near East? We cannot locate any such examples yet were expected to believe people migrated north with nothing and ultimately accomplished something so soon. If you were correct and knowledge came from the south we would be able to trace it ethnographically, historically and archeologically validating evidence of Southern knowledge and migration dating prior & post to the establishment of Ancient Egypt, yet nothing like this exist and neither did the south demonstrate anything on a par with Egypt. Knowledge clearly came from the north and died at Nubia.
posted
^Brada always bringing truth. Keep on keeping on Brada.
On another note: did Spiralman claim that the ziggurats influenced the pyramids? Is he nuts! Does he know when the first ziggurats were constructed?
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple-minded Girl: And what real proof do you have that the original paint has been airbrushed off? Please show us the proof and not something that is your mere opinion.
Well I don't know if it was exactly airbrushed off, but something happened to the remnants of dark paint that was its original skin color.
before
after
quote: Are you there? Everyone already knows you're a joke.LOL
I'm here. But NO, everyone knows that it is YOU who is the joke and very pathetic one at that. Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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1) If he is a Black Asian because his skin is relatively dark then all Egyptians may have been Black.
This is your imagination, that you add a falsely premised caveat to.
There is not a straw of evidence that AE figures looked anything like this guy. In fact, they were generally displayed in a lot darker pigmentation, well within the tropical African continuum.
quote:
2) Regardless of how you define black (or don't define it) the statement that all Egyptians were black is unprovable and will remain unprovable forever.
I guess with your anti-African emotionalism, "packed with melanin" doesn't count for jack as empirical proof to you, of what thousands of images of AE figures relay in the dark pigmentation of Kemetic figures and what their body proportions communicate. Your behavior can be likened to looking at the grass, but still denying that it is green, and swearing that the color can never be demonstrated to have existed.
quote: 3) If in ancient times somebody who lived in Somalia migrated to Egypt and started living there how long would they or their descendants have to live there to be regarded as Egyptians?
It wouldn't matter, because Somalians are by far more closely related to native AEs than that Indian guy you posted, and used as some kind of litmus test for AE authenticity. You are the opposite spectrum of Clyde...make ridiculous wide-eyed attempts to de-Africanize indigenous Africans and relate them closer to people that they have the least chance of being closely related to.
^Yeah, they sure look like that Indian. LOL
I don't know if this lyingass chick is Indian herself, but I personally know Indians and even they know that Egyptians were Africans. No Indian in the right mind would try to claim Egypt as theirs. Why should they, when they have advanced cultures of their own. I mean they aren't like the low self-esteemed whites who love to usurp every advanced culture in the world as their own. Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: If some guy have blue eyes or a 100 or even a 1000 does not change the fact of Ta-Seti as the 1st nome of Kemet and not Naqada complete with royal paraphernalia first found in and about the area of Ta-Seti,or on rocks at Glif-El Kabir, Kargur Talh,Nabta Playta,that the Ta-Setians had royal palaces and traded with the people of the Levant directly without the need for a Kemetian middleman should be lost on no one because at that stage Kemites did not have a state.
To understand ancient Egyptian history or Nile Valley history in general one must know about Nubia since cultural advancement originated there. If fools like Spiral-brain, Simple-minded girl, or NonProof, knew anything about ancient Kemet, they would know that Ta-Seti in Nubia was called the 1st nome by the Egyptians and for good reason.
quote:Göbekli Tepe do you no good because if you are looking for a certain phenotype for those sites.
Originally posted by Calypso: BONES OF CANNIBALS A PALESTINE RIDDLE Wireless to THE NEW YORK TIMES. New York Times 1857; Aug 4, 1932; ProQuest Historical Newspapers The New York Times (1851 - 2003) pg. 21
Negroid people of 5000 B. C. ATE BODIES OF ENEMIES Men, Short of Stature, Burned Bones of Dead After Burial, London Session Hears. TEETH OF WOMEN DRAWN Linking relics to Burnt Skeletons from Ur scientist speculate an old cremation custom.
Seven or eight thousand years ago in what geologist call modern times a race of negroid cannibals lived In Palestine, burned the bones of their dead after burial, and devoured the bodies of their enemies. Skulls and thighbones of this race were unearthed within the last four years, first at Shukbah near Jerusalem and later in caves at Mount Carmel, and because they puzzled the excavators who found them they received the new name “Natufians.”
Today the first authoritative account of them was given by Sir Arthur Keith to the congress of Prehistoric and Protohistoric Sciences and showed them to be one of the greatest riddles of archaeology.
They were clearly a Negroid people, said Sir Arthur, with wide faces flat- noses and long large heads.
They were short of stature 5 feet 3 or 4 inches tall-and their thighs and legs were remarkably strong.
While their arms and shoulders were weak.
Alone Among prehistoric peoples they had a custom of extracting the two upper central incisor teeth of their women.
Jagged holes in the fronts of their skulls indicate that they ate human brains.
They may have been ancestors or the Arabs or Semites of biblical times, in Sir Arthur's opinion.
They had some facial characteristics like those of the Neolithic or late Stone Age men of Malta and the remoter Aurignacian men of Southern Europe.
Natufian remains, it should be remembered, are in no way connected with the more recent discoveries of a new race of fossil men, also in caves, near Mt Carmel. The fossil men, so remarkably different from all others yet found, became extinct in the remotely distant past, while the Natufians may still have been living when the first city-states of Sumeria arose.
Sir Arthur based his conclusions today on twenty comparatively complete skulls of eighty-seven found by Miss Garrod.
Cites Features of Race
“Several features stand out quite definitely'' he asserted; first the Natufians were a long-headed people - they had cap-shaped occiputs (the lower back part of the head).
Secondly, the dimensions or their heads were greater than in the pre-dynastic Egyptians.
Thirdly, their faces were short and wide. Fourthly, they were prognathous (with projecting jaws). Fifthly, their nasal bones were not narrow and high, but formed a wide, low arch.
Sixthly, their chins were not prominent, but were masked by the fullness of the teeth-bearing parts of the jaw.
“The Natufians at Shukbah seem to have practiced cannibalism, for it is only by making this supposition that one can explain the cutting and fracturing of bones. The characters of the cuts and the broken surfaces show the bones were still in a fresh state when the damage was done. I believe the Shukbah people ate human brains.”
The cannibalism theory was strongly disputed by Professor Elliott smith, eminent geologist, who said he was entirely skeptical of it.
Also Professor Smith said it was not uncommon in Egypt to find burned bones in graves.
Professor Smith objected, too, that it was hardly possible that these people had had Negro blood, but Sir Arthur speedily corrected him. By the word Negroid he meant merely Negro-like characteristics such as are found throughout Europe and even in Scandinavia. Sir Arthur drew the inference that the Natufians had carried Aurignacian culture into Palestine after the last glacier age, which was approximately 35000 years ago.
So says a perhaps inaccurate report 70 odd yrs ago about the cultural aspect.
Indeed. Even the racists whites who discovered the Natufians could not deny the "negroid" features of the skulls, yet they could not bring themselves to admit the presence of "negroes" in the 'Holy Land' so they merely went with the cop-out that they were merely "negro-like" and not real "negroes". Of course you NEVER hear talk of "caucasian-like" peoples that aren't really caucasian. LOL Of course today we have genetic evidence that shows these people carried African lineages and were thus black Africans or "negroes" as you will. We also know that these people were the forebears of agriculture and not "cannibalism" as was initially thought.
quote:http://www.human-evol.cam.ac.uk/Members/Stock/Pubs/Stock-AJPA2005-F81WadiMataha.pdf A more up to date report but I am sure you won't read it preferring to make up stuff.
This is one of the many sites in West Africa that was contemporary with pre-dynastic, archaic, and Old Kingdom Egypt. Here's an extract from an otherwise unavailable for free article by one of the subject's main scholars covering Tichitt's last phases.
Coping with uncertainty: Neolithic life in the Dhar Tichitt-Walata, Mauritania, (ca. 4000–2300 BP)
Augustin F.C. Holl
Abstract The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes. These herders took advantage of the peculiarities of the local geology and environment and succeeded in domesticating bulrush millet – Pennisetum sp. The emerging agropastoral subsistence complex had conflicting and/or complementary requirements depending on circumstances. In the long run, the social adjustment to the new subsistence complex, shifting site location strategies, nested settlement patterns and the rise of more encompassing polities appear to have been used to cope with climatic hazards in this relatively circumscribed area. An intense arid spell in the middle of the first millennium BC triggered the collapse of the whole Neolithic agropastoral system and the abandonment of the areas. These regions, resettled by sparse oasis-dwellers populations and iron-using communities starting from the first half of the first millennium AD, became part of the famous Ghana “empire”, the earliest state in West African history.
quote:Where are your advanced sites, sculptures, murals etc south of Egypt predating those in the Near East? We cannot locate any such examples yet were expected to believe people migrated north with nothing and ultimately accomplished something so soon. If you were correct and knowledge came from the south we would be able to trace it ethnographically, historically and archeologically validating evidence of Southern knowledge and migration dating prior & post to the establishment of Ancient Egypt, yet nothing like this exist and neither did the south demonstrate anything on a par with Egypt. Knowledge clearly came from the north and died at Nubia.
Titichit is just one of MANY centers in Sub-Saharan Africa. Brada, don't even bother trying to educate Spiraled-brains. Better yet why not turn the tables on him. Ask him to provide evidence of advanced culture in Europe north of the Mediterranean and free of non-European influence, since even the civilizations of Mediterranean Europe are of Asiatic and even African designs.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by NonSense: You guys are showing MORE evidence of PAE culture flowing from north to south and east to west. Not one shred of evidence from the south to north into PAE...
Explorer is right. You are delusional. Perhaps you've forgotten about all the archaeological evidence from epipaleolithic times showing migrations from the south going to the north into the east (Levant) and west Northwest Africa with the Halfan culture becoming the Ibero-Maurusian culture in the west In Morocco and even Spain as well as the Kebaran culture in the Levant. What about the Mushabean culture that came afterward that joined with the Natufian in the Levant to become the Natufian. Or what of the Harifian culture after that which introduced pastoral nomadism into the Levant and even Arabia?? What about all the genetic evidence to support this like PN2 (E) derived haplogroups in the 'Near East' or Afroasiatic languages with Semitic being the only one spoken outside of Africa in that regions??
quote:Go read my prior posts in the Bauval book thread on Nabta Playa/Cattle pastoralism and in this thread on the earliest Naqada PAE royal cultural symbols of the Falcon, Hedjet, sailing vessels, Hieroglyphs and Protoglyphs. See W.Y. Adams et al. refuting Bruce Williams on the Qutsul burner too.
We've read your posts, and they are all B.S. There is no getting around it. The pharaonic symbols like the falcon, hedjet, and hieroglyphs were all found in the Qustul culture of Lower Nubia first before the Naqada culture of Upper Egypt. Virtually all Egyptologists and other scholars agree that earliest known kings' tombs are found in Qustul in Lower Nubia. Indeed the earliest evidence of complex cemeteries and funerary institutions in the Nile Valley are to be found there. What you also fail to realize due to your ignorance of African culture is that all of these cultural elements you point out have been acknowledged by from the earliest (even racist) scholars to be of indigenous African origin. If you knew anything about black African culture you would recognize that these features are all totemic in nature. Everything from the hawk iconography to the hedjet headdress, to even the use of hieroglyphs are all based on African totemism. Scholars from Petrie to Champollion to Gardiner saw these as "primitive" and even "negroid" vestiges of culture where animals and plants are used to symbolize tribes, ancestors, rulers, even deities. In the 'Qustul culture' of Ta-Seti there were three main totems, two of them being the hawk and baboon. The hedjet crown was said to symbolize a bull's penis which echoes back European explorers and scholars who remarked about the "odd" and "unusual" headdresses of African kings and chieftains which represent animal or plant "fetishes". We know hieroglyphs are made up mostly of animal symbols and again the earliest evidence of which is found in Qustul and Sayalah. Even the very concept of pharaoh itself is African where the king is also recognized as a god. In the Sudan in particular some kings reign after a certain period of thirty years until they are sacrificed. In Egypt, after the same period of time instead of being sacrificed, the pharaoh goes through a ritual of rejuvenation to continue his reign called the Heb Sed. He wears a tail of a bull or ox, the same way many kings in Africa do. The first part of the title of this thread, the 'Narmer Palette' actually shows obvious African totemism and other symbolism as well as the ritual sacrifice of a defeated enemy as first described in detail by Diop in the context of his own African culture where the king conducts the very same sacrifice!
So tell us this, false prophet. I was able to point out but a handful of the myriad of African cultural aspects in ancient Egyptian culture, Can you point out any Asiatic cultural aspects??
In the meantime let's ponder this, you speak of the Naqada culture having the hawk. Yet the earliest evidence of the hawk totem in Naqada is in association with the predynastic city of Nekhen (hierakonpolis). Below is a study based on cemeteries in Nekhen:
A biological affinities study based on frequencies of cranial nonmetric traits in skeletal samples from three cemeteries at Predynastic Naqada, Egypt, confirms the results of a recent nonmetric dental morphological analysis. Both cranial and dental traits analyses indicate that the individuals buried in a cemetery characterized archaeologically as high status are significantly different from individuals buried in two other, apparently non-elite cemeteries and that the non-elite samples are not significantly different from each other. A comparison with neighboring Nile Valley skeletal samples suggests that the high status cemetery represents an endogamous ruling or elite segment of the local population at Naqada, which is more closely related to populations in northern Nubia than to neighboring populations in southern Egypt. T. Prowse, and N. Lovell "Concordance of cranial and dental morphological traits and evidence for endogamy in ancient Egypt" American journal of physical anthropology. 1996, vol. 101, no2, pp. 237-246 (2 p.1/4)
So much for your movement of culture from north to south! LOL
I don't expect a response from NonSense, as he is too cowardly to address FACTS that are too obvious, but I am curious to see what his idiot followers have to say. Though I prefer to read from the intelligent posters. Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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I honestly think seated scribe's features don't look black to me. He doesn't look like green shirt man to me and green shirt man is unusual looking to begin with. Green shirt looks about 55-60 yrs old. Also when people age their face gets more bony looking, less firm skin. The seated scribe looks about mid 40 years old. His lips are very thin and his nostrils are very small, jaw squarish, big ears. His eyes are blueish. Wally says it's fake. I'm going to have to go with brother Wally on this one
Look at this other scribe:
Look at that hair, it's got straight lines in it. You really think he heat combed it like that? Why are the lines so thick. He looks South Asian for some reason. Africans doesn't look like this. The East Africans have long narrow heads, this guy has a very round head. The size of the nostril holes is very small. It has got to be another fake, if not they were hiring scribes from Southern Asia somewhere.
Let me ask you something. Wally said that the seated scribe in the above picture was fake. Even if he was painted darker he's not that light. As he is he is still dark enough to be what many people, at least AA's, would consider black. Wally questioned this statue and said it was fake. Why would he think that? Because he saw the features and head shape aint lookin right to be black.
I'm going to have to go with Wally on this one.
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Look at that hair, it's got straight lines in it. You really think he heat combed it like that? Why are the lines so thick.
Maybe they're dreadlocks?
Posts: 7082 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Look at that hair, it's got straight lines in it. You really think he heat combed it like that? Why are the lines so thick.
Maybe they're dreadlocks?
rastas in AE ???
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
The Seated Scribe et al doesn't have blue eyes. The used material inlaid in the sculpture's eyes has a clear transparent surface absorbing the surrounding color reflecting back at the viewer.
I think the Seated Scribe looks like a black man with thin lips.
I agree with The Lioness's, i don't think the Green Shirt man resembles him that much.
If anything The Seated Scribe looks more like the actor Peter Mensah than the Green Shirt man.
Posts: 535 | From: From the Darkest of the Abyss | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Siptah: The Seated Scribe et al doesn't have blue eyes. The used material inlaid in the sculpture's eyes has a clear transparent surface absorbing the surrounding color reflecting back at the viewer.
This makes sense. Because most pictures show him with darker eyes and only in the brightest light do they look 'blue'.
quote:I think the Seated Scribe looks like a black man with thin lips.
I agree with The Lioness's, i don't think the Green Shirt man resembles him that much.
I still think the features are very similar to the man in the green shirt as well as the politician below him.
Of course, according to NonProof these men above are all "caucasoid" anyway because of the said features.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Look at this other scribe:
Look at that hair, it's got straight lines in it. You really think he heat combed it like that? Why are the lines so thick.
Apparently you are unaware of the fact that the Egyptians wore wigs of plant fiber that give the appearance of straight hair. Actually the same type of wigs are worn by Africans on the other side of the Sahara in West Africa as well as first demonstrated by Diop in his book.
quote:He looks South Asian for some reason. Africans doesn't look like this. The East Africans have long narrow heads, this guy has a very round head. The size of the nostril holes is very small. It has got to be another fake, if not they were hiring scribes from Southern Asia somewhere.
Again nobody cares what you think because your are delusional and utterly ignorant about the diversity of African looks, yet obsess about this nonsensical South Asian/Indian population theory of Egypt. Not to mention that the scribe also has his original dark paint faded off.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: ^^you gotta stop being so logical man.. lol
yassuh.. it was all nawth to south.....
Is that the reason why NonProof refuses to answer what I addressed about the African totemic root of Egypt, and why he chooses instead to go on a troll rampage as 'SuperDuperTroll-iosis'? Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The first known examples of dreadlocks date back to North Africa. In ancient dynastic Egypt examples of Egyptians wearing locked hairstyles and wigs have appeared on bas-reliefs, statuary and other artifacts.[3] Mummified remains of ancient Egyptians with locks, as well as locked wigs, have also been recovered from archaeological sites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadlocks Rastas in Kemet??? why not!! Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Apparently you are unaware of the fact that the Egyptians wore wigs of plant fiber that give the appearance of straight hair. Actually the same type of wigs are worn by Africans on the other side of the Sahara in West Africa as well as first demonstrated by Diop in his book.
If there's one thing I've almost never seen in all ancient Egyptian art, it's people with short, straight hair like this:
Almost every time an Egyptian sports what may be interpreted as straight hair, it's at least fairly long and possibly the kind of plant-fiber wig you're describing. Whenever you see an Egyptian with shorter hair, the texture is either undefined or it's clearly Africoid. See these examples:
Another thing I've noticed about Egyptian art is that often there are horizontal grooves carved into the men's hair, like this:
I've noticed that black men's hair, particularly when it is fairly short, often has little "waves" in it. If you look closely at this photo you can see these waves:
The waves look exactly like the horizontal grooves you see on Egyptian male statues!
I await the Eurocentric explanation to all this.
Posts: 7082 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by NonSense: You guys are showing MORE evidence of PAE culture flowing from north to south and east to west. Not one shred of evidence from the south to north into PAE...
Explorer is right. You are delusional. Perhaps you've forgotten about all the archaeological evidence from epipaleolithic times showing migrations from the south going to the north into the east (Levant) and west Northwest Africa with the Halfan culture becoming the Ibero-Maurusian culture in the west In Morocco and even Spain as well as the Kebaran culture in the Levant. What about the Mushabean culture that came afterward that joined with the Natufian in the Levant to become the Natufian. Or what of the Harifian culture after that which introduced pastoral nomadism into the Levant and even Arabia?? What about all the genetic evidence to support this like PN2 (E) derived haplogroups in the 'Near East' or Afroasiatic languages with Semitic being the only one spoken outside of Africa in that regions??
quote:Go read my prior posts in the Bauval book thread on Nabta Playa/Cattle pastoralism and in this thread on the earliest Naqada PAE royal cultural symbols of the Falcon, Hedjet, sailing vessels, Hieroglyphs and Protoglyphs. See W.Y. Adams et al. refuting Bruce Williams on the Qutsul burner too.
We've read your posts, and they are all B.S. There is no getting around it. The pharaonic symbols like the falcon, hedjet, and hieroglyphs were all found in the Qustul culture of Lower Nubia first before the Naqada culture of Upper Egypt. Virtually all Egyptologists and other scholars agree that earliest known kings' tombs are found in Qustul in Lower Nubia. Indeed the earliest evidence of complex cemeteries and funerary institutions in the Nile Valley are to be found there. What you also fail to realize due to your ignorance of African culture is that all of these cultural elements you point out have been acknowledged by from the earliest (even racist) scholars to be of indigenous African origin. If you knew anything about black African culture you would recognize that these features are all totemic in nature. Everything from the hawk iconography to the hedjet headdress, to even the use of hieroglyphs are all based on African totemism. Scholars from Petrie to Champollion to Gardiner saw these as "primitive" and even "negroid" vestiges of culture where animals and plants are used to symbolize tribes, ancestors, rulers, even deities. In the 'Qustul culture' of Ta-Seti there were three main totems, two of them being the hawk and baboon. The hedjet crown was said to symbolize a bull's penis which echoes back European explorers and scholars who remarked about the "odd" and "unusual" headdresses of African kings and chieftains which represent animal or plant "fetishes". We know hieroglyphs are made up mostly of animal symbols and again the earliest evidence of which is found in Qustul and Sayalah. Even the very concept of pharaoh itself is African where the king is also recognized as a god. In the Sudan in particular some kings reign after a certain period of thirty years until they are sacrificed. In Egypt, after the same period of time instead of being sacrificed, the pharaoh goes through a ritual of rejuvenation to continue his reign called the Heb Sed. He wears a tail of a bull or ox, the same way many kings in Africa do. The first part of the title of this thread, the 'Narmer Palette' actually shows obvious African totemism and other symbolism as well as the ritual sacrifice of a defeated enemy as first described in detail by Diop in the context of his own African culture where the king conducts the very same sacrifice!
So tell us this, false prophet. I was able to point out but a handful of the myriad of African cultural aspects in ancient Egyptian culture, Can you point out any Asiatic cultural aspects??
In the meantime let's ponder this, you speak of the Naqada culture having the hawk. Yet the earliest evidence of the hawk totem in Naqada is in association with the predynastic city of Nekhen (hierakonpolis). Below is a study based on cemeteries in Nekhen:
A biological affinities study based on frequencies of cranial nonmetric traits in skeletal samples from three cemeteries at Predynastic Naqada, Egypt, confirms the results of a recent nonmetric dental morphological analysis. Both cranial and dental traits analyses indicate that the individuals buried in a cemetery characterized archaeologically as high status are significantly different from individuals buried in two other, apparently non-elite cemeteries and that the non-elite samples are not significantly different from each other. A comparison with neighboring Nile Valley skeletal samples suggests that the high status cemetery represents an endogamous ruling or elite segment of the local population at Naqada, which is more closely related to populations in northern Nubia than to neighboring populations in southern Egypt. T. Prowse, and N. Lovell "Concordance of cranial and dental morphological traits and evidence for endogamy in ancient Egypt" American journal of physical anthropology. 1996, vol. 101, no2, pp. 237-246 (2 p.1/4)
So much for your movement of culture from north to south! LOL
I don't expect a response from NonSense, as he is too cowardly to address FACTS that are too obvious, but I am curious to see what his idiot followers have to say. Though I prefer to read from the intelligent posters.
I honestly think seated scribe's features don't look black to me.
Princess of goof, you are looking at the statue with its dark pigmentation, and you claim it does not look "black" to you; is it the skin color that renders what is "black" or are muscle shapes that constitute what is black? Oh wait, you are the same person who thinks Dynastic Egyptians were Indians. LOL
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I honestly think seated scribe's features don't look black to me.
Princess of goof, you are looking at the statue with its dark pigmentation, and you claim it does not look "black" to you; is it the skin color that renders what is "black" or are muscle shapes that constitute what is black?
Below I'm looking at a person who has a similar complexion to the seated scribe
Here's another:
Explorer are these Black people??
Yes or no please, let's keep it direct and to the point.
Are the above two persons Black people? If you can't answer yes or no or if you have to rephrase the question and add words forget it, don't even bother. thank you
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
I don't care what those people are. You are a wide-eyed loon for thinking that the Kemetians were Indians. Another name for you would be a "Dynastic Race" crackpot.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I never said the Egyptians were Indian. It's John's theory. I thought the theory was interesting enough to quote John on and such connections are not unconnected to certain Afrocentric theories.
In the art Egyptians have be known to look black African, Indian, Semitic, European, "oriental".
As Keita said if people from different parts of the world look similar they may have common ancestry or may not have common ancestry.
Overwhelmingly so Jamaicans are Black. People from Nigeria also.
Are the two people form India above Black? Easy enough question
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I never said the Egyptians were Indian. It's John's theory. I thought the theory was interesting enough to quote John on and such connections are not unconnected to certain Afrocentric theories.
Even though John's theory is plain WRONG. And India has nothing to do with Egypt or any of Africa.
quote:In the art Egyptians have be known to look black African, Indian, Semitic, European, "oriental".
That is YOUR twisted opinion. Anyone familiar with ancient Egyptian art knows they look black African period.
quote:As Keita said if people from different parts of the world look similar they may have common ancestry or may not have common ancestry.
Correct. Which is why there are black peoples native to Asia including India and Southeast Asia but as Asians neither have any ties to Africa including Egypt.
quote:Overwhelmingly so Jamaicans are Black. People from Nigeria also.
But Jamaicans are of recent African descent and Nigerians are Africans. Just as Egyptians are Africans.
quote:Are the two people form India above Black? Easy enough question
No. But even if they were. Again NOTHING to do with Egypt! Are you done spewing your nonsense?
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Of course you have; you have used an Indian to determine the authenticity of ancient Egyptians, which is quite comical. Tell me, did Africans replace Indians in Egypt?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: The first known examples of dreadlocks date back to North Africa. In ancient dynastic Egypt examples of Egyptians wearing locked hairstyles and wigs have appeared on bas-reliefs, statuary and other artifacts.[3] Mummified remains of ancient Egyptians with locks, as well as locked wigs, have also been recovered from archaeological sites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadlocks Rastas in Kemet??? why not!!
These look like braids to me, though I have seen a few examples in Egyptian paintings of men wearing dreads; usually these were short length and were worn by workers or laborers.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Almost every time an Egyptian sports what may be interpreted as straight hair, it's at least fairly long and possibly the kind of plant-fiber wig you're describing. Whenever you see an Egyptian with shorter hair, the texture is either undefined or it's clearly Africoid. See these examples:
Indeed. In all too many depictions men and even women depicted with short cropped hair, they are shown with tight curls.
Let's not even mention afros.
quote:Another thing I've noticed about Egyptian art is that often there are horizontal grooves carved into the men's hair, like this:
I've noticed that black men's hair, particularly when it is fairly short, often has little "waves" in it. If you look closely at this photo you can see these waves:
The waves look exactly like the horizontal grooves you see on Egyptian male statues!
I await the Eurocentric explanation to all this.
Very perceptive. I've noticed that look in some ancient Egyptian depictions as well. Actually this look can be achieved in short-cropped hair of black people by applying certain gels. In fact the traditional substance used was animal fat. I was told this by African American friends, and when I researched it further it turns out the use of animal fat to attain such a hairstyle is a practice that is as very ancient as it is very common on the African continent. It is practiced by peoples in west Africa, southern Africa, as well as east Africa. No surprise the Egyptians did it as well.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Let's not even mention afros.
Are there any other images of Egyptian women with afros besides this? Honestly, I think afros look cute on women, so I think it's a shame that the afro style wasn't common among Egyptian women.
quote:Very perceptive. I've noticed that look in some ancient Egyptian depictions as well. Actually this look can be achieved in short-cropped hair of black people by applying certain gels. In fact the traditional substance used was animal fat. I was told this by African American friends, and when I researched it further it turns out the use of animal fat to attain such a hairstyle is a practice that is as very ancient as it is very common on the African continent. It is practiced by peoples in west Africa, southern Africa, as well as east Africa. No surprise the Egyptians did it as well.
You mean the "wavy" look is artificial? I always thought it was natural.
Posts: 7082 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Are there any other images of Egyptian women with afros besides this? Honestly, I think afros look cute on women, so I think it's a shame that the afro style wasn't common among Egyptian women.
Most depictions of women with afros I've seen come from Old Kingdom art when the common style was short hair. I'm surprised you haven't seen any as there are plenty.of them.
Here are just several.
quote:You mean the "wavy" look is artificial? I always thought it was natural.
Not from what I learned. Although I think people with naturally wavy hair may have that look when hair is short, more often it achieved through alteration by lipid substances like oils or animal fats.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Very perceptive. I've noticed that look in some ancient Egyptian depictions as well. Actually this look can be achieved in short-cropped hair of black people by applying certain gels. In fact the traditional substance used was animal fat. I was told this by African American friends, and when I researched it further it turns out the use of animal fat to attain such a hairstyle is a practice that is as very ancient as it is very common on the African continent. It is practiced by peoples in west Africa, southern Africa, as well as east Africa. No surprise the Egyptians did it as well.
You mean the "wavy" look is artificial? I always thought it was natural.
It is natural not artificial. One simply needs a brush and a do-rag to keep the hair flattened, with perhaps some coconut oil for shine. Point is you need the specific type of hair for it.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Goof-in-skirt says that a scribe who is apparently darker in pigmentation than this fellow, can yet be synonymously represented by this fellow's skin tone.
quote:I never said the Egyptians were Indian. It's John's theory.
You have bought into the crackpot theory. It shows how gullible of a character you are, and how your anti-African psych entices you to easily buy into any line, no matter how stupid it may be, as long as it gives you an avenue to artificially de-Africanize anything that is African.
quote:
In the art Egyptians have be known to look black African, Indian, Semitic, European, "oriental".
By whom, and through what specific objective markers? Fool, Maghrebi Tamazights, Sudanese, Egyptians, Ethiopians all speak Semitic languages; do they look "Semitic"? Semitic is a language phylum, not a phenotype. What the heck does "oriental" look like? LOL
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Went over the link. Just goes to show how people who look so alike outwardly, could just as well be more distant genetically. Now of course, context is always key. Some recent Africans are relatively closely related to say, Indian sub-Continent "blacks" through mtDNA hg M, while some Asian "black" carrying Y-DNA hg D markers are relatively closer to hg E carrying Africans than "non-hg DE" derived Eurasian groups.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: [QB] Explorer What the heck does "oriental" look like? LOL
"Oriental" is often (not always) associated with Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Southeast Asia etc.
Hatshepsut, looks Japanese here
Hatshepsut
___________________________________
Luxor - Tutankhamun colossal statue looking a little oriental here:
Tut looking Indian here.
Why should I lie? It would be nice if I would say he looks West African here like myself. Unfortunately he looks Indian to me in this particular sculpture. My apologies to the centrics
"HA HA HA Lioness says Hatshepsut is Japanese HA HA he he ha ha I am retarded"
-no idiot I said "looks" not "is"
"But lioness is trying to de-Africanize"
- Africa is a continental concept devised by the Greeks. The Egyptians and other ancient people before the Greeks did not have a concept of continents or an equivalent to Africa. The nationalist interpretation of today did not apply then, city-states and tribes were separate identities.
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:- Africa is a continental concept devised by the Greeks. The Egyptians and other ancient people before the Greeks did not have a concept of continents or an equivalent to Africa. The nationalist interpretation of today did not apply then, city-states and tribes were separate identities.
1)Africa as continent is not a "Greek invention". It is an objective fact. When people speak of Africa in this day and age, this is what is being referred to.
2)The name "Africa" was not even applied by Greeks.
3)Ancient Egyptians as being Africans is also a scientific FACT, not like your fairy tale Indian AEs. This applies to culture; the core culture was African -- a FACT, not your fairy tale Indian. They spoke Afrisan (Ancient Egyptian), not fairy tale Hindu.
4)The ancient Egyptians did in fact time and again speak of their lineage affiliations to their south; they never spoke of their lineage to their east [Levant] or north [Europe]. Thus, while a concept of an entire continent, let alone continental unity may have evaded them, they still looked to other Africans as their closest population relatives. They even thought the land of pygmies was also 'divine'. Guess where that was: Africa, of course!
^And what you call "oriental"-looking Hatshepsut, is actually a statue of "young" Akhenaten; see below...
^Look at Akhenaten-era style post-cranial feminine-like body.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
...do y'all EVER relate your research to your own personal life experiences??? I mean, I use to date a sista who is a 'dead clone' of this very feminine portrait of Ikhnaton...
and this little Upper Egyptian girl could substitute for my little cousin at school and no one would be the wiser; until she spoke...
posted
^ LOL Amazing. The more the empty skirt (lyinass) talks, the dumber she looks.
By the way, she claims she is West African. Either she is lying as usual or she is a West African with mental health problems because I know many West Africans and they are just as very intelligent as they are very educated. And they can tell the difference between black Africans (Tut) and black Asians.
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: It is natural not artificial. One simply needs a brush and a do-rag to keep the hair flattened, with perhaps some coconut oil for shine. Point is you need the specific type of hair for it.
Yes. From what I've heard the traditional substance was animal fat or butter of some kind. As for 'do-rags', the Egyptians certainly had head cloths as well as tight fitting caps, and they certainly had brushes. So there you go.
P.S. Notice how the lyingass empty skirt stays clear of addressing the various African centered customs and traits such as the example just mentioned. Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^^^^if you don't notice an oriental quality about this you're blind
It doesn't mean that the Egyptians were "oriental" But the above statue doesn't look very African to me.
Thutmose not looking very African either, not in the least. Look at the defined hard looking nose bone and the upward angle. It looks half European with oriental qualities in the eyes and the lips are small, non elongated head shape. You can't find a lot of African people looking like this, one feature here of there maybe but not as a whole. You go all over Africa looking, but traveling to distances much further from Egypt than the Levant
For political reasons you can't admit it.
Doesn't look like a black kid to me. Looks more Indian.
That's doesn't mean he was Indian. But after seeing so much of Egyptian art where people sometimes look black and that other times Asian it makes me wonder. Is it an surprise that Egypt borders Asia?
It looks like blacks in Egypt were doing a lot of mingling. They wern't as hung up about it
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lynass: Does not look like an African person:
Of course 'African' in your mind is very limited so I'm right you are lying about being African because you don't have a clue about how Africans look like.
quote:
^^^^if you don't notice an oriental quality about this you're blind
What pray tell is an "oriental quality"
quote:
It doesn't mean that the Egyptians were "oriental" But the above statue doesn't look very African to me.
Of course they don't to YOU because you are an idiot.
quote:
Thutmose not looking very African either, not in the least. Look at the defined hard looking nose bone and the upward angle. It looks half European with oriental qualities in the eyes and the lips are small, non elongated head shape. You can't find a lot of African people looking like this, one feature here of there maybe but not as a whole. You go all over Africa looking, but traveling to distances much further from Egypt than the Levant.
Again, if you were truly West African then you would know that there are West Africans who have such looks.
By your definition this West African woman below is also "Half European with oriental qualities".
quote:For political reasons you can't admit it.
Doesn't look like a black kid to me. Looks more Indian.
Nothing "political" about. For psychological reasons you can't admit that Tut IS black. Many Indians are black as well, but Tut and the Egyptians are AFRICANS.
quote:That's doesn't mean he was Indian. But after seeing so much of Egyptian art where people sometimes look black and that other times Asian it makes me wonder. Is it an surprise that Egypt borders Asia?
Art can be subjective, and the interpretation of art even more so! So when an idiot like yourself who has no idea of the diversity of features Africans come in can make all kinds of wild claims about Egyptian looks.
quote:It looks like blacks in Egypt were doing a lot of mingling. They wern't as hung up about it
Not what bio-anthropology and genetics shows. The only one hung up is YOU-- hung up over the black African identity and nature of the Egyptians.
Now why is it, whenever we talk about cultural aspects that are undeniably African such as the hairstyles, customs, etc. you are don't post a word? Is it because there are no "oriental" qualities? LOLPosts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Thutmose not looking very African either, not in the least. Look at the defined hard looking nose bone and the upward angle. It looks half European with oriental qualities in the eyes and the lips are small, non elongated head shape. You can't find a lot of African people looking like this, one feature here of there maybe but not as a whole. You go all over Africa looking, but traveling to distances much further from Egypt than the Levant
Then you must not have seen many northern Sudanese:
His nose is almost the same shape as Thutmose's and his lips are thin, yet he's clearly black.
Posts: 7082 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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