quote:Originally posted by egyptian85: when you claim ancient egyptians were black,its like saying( france is located in africa)
U r total brainwashed guys! really dead brains LOl
No connection at all between african blacks and ancient egyptians, Ancient egyptians were wheaty like modern egyptians exactly even our lookings is the same of statues features thats enough for u, i wont argue over dead point
The problem you black guys are so fanatic for your theories
I have debated enough with black americans,complicated people.....They have no history to brag or hold dignity so they hardly try to steal Egyptian history.
Egypt race is actually middle eastern, rather than african black
In ancient times( There was no red sea, the land of egypt was part of the Arabian Peninsul, Egypt have been land of arabia long before your african race be born, There are high accounts of hierogryphic artifacts recently discovered in Iraq,Saudi arabia,Kuwait,Syria,Turkey,Israel,Palestine,Jordan,yemen,while No hierogryphic artifacts in african countries ,what does it mean??? CAN YOU ANSWER YOUR SELF?
When french arms invaded egypt, They destroyed the nose of sphinx and many monuments? You know why? what was the secret behind that?
The french had hatred for the arab muslims who invaded france and andalusia, they wanted to destroy any connection between arabs and the ancient civilizations.
When they destroyed the sphinx nose, they made it cuz it held Typical arab looking.....Not african blacks.
Show me one african lady,has the same features like this egyptian queen statue:
Egyptian arab looking from the ancient times
Show me an african looks like this statue:
When you find, plz come and open your mouth
stfu! american black....u total nuts with your sick teachers LOOL its fking hilarious
One time,i had debate with black american lady,she swore me alot and then end with big joke that " the black african scientists invented the white race by playing up the human genees" hahahahaah
the black americans want everything black, the world is black.....the humans r black.
From abrahamic religion:
Adam and eve colour and race was like the middle easterners ( wheaty coloured,such like the ancient egyptians). there were no black race by time of Prophet Noah too, The black breed came later by time thats a religious perspective
Imposter you are yet to learn the basics.
THE DESCENDANTS OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WHO ARE VISITING THE SITE-SCENES AND LEARNING ABOUT THEIR HISTORY!!!
IT'S A CRYING SHAME!
Bye, AshkeNazi!
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The white supremacists must love this, the one that lynched our people from trees are off the hook, now anytime a black person has an issue with whites the Ashkenazi Jews get blamed
**** also Ironlion says the Romans were black so I don't know why Patty is so upset the Egyptians looking like them
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ^^^ These kids look no blacker than Barack
The white supremacists must love this, the one that lynched our people from trees are off the hook, now anytime a black person has an issue with whites the Ashkenazi Jews get blamed
**** also Ironlion says the Romans were black so I don't know why Patty is so upset the Egyptians looking like them
Burp... fart... ****... That is what you sound like...straight up nasty and irrelevant. Plus you haven't been to any of the places you rant about!
I know a AshkeNazi when i see one. Bye imposter with your alter egos!
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by egyptian85: Trolll patrol: U really believe in that bullshit called studies??? What a joke!
That studies are all waste of time, u guys are trying to steal our history and our ancient civilization
The ancient egyptians recorded the black africans as strangers...thats all
Look at all huge human statues,they all are holding Arab-copt egyptian lookings, Not black africans.
The thick lips and big eyes not recorded on most statues..N....Stop listening to your african american teachers, they are big joke LOL
Most mummies for wheaty white people with even red hair like ramses II mummy
Muktaba, wannabee Egyptian STFU. OK!
Zahi Hawass:
blah blah blah....
Your friend HAWAZZ is an ARAB from a ARAB TOWN!!!
Somewhere in the North of Northern Egypt, where people have an abundance of admixture too, by the way. Unlike Middle Egyptians and Southern Egyptians.
HOW ABOUT THAT ONE.
Next, he himself stated he doesent know from where the acniet Egyoptains came....RING RING BELL? LOOOOL
EGYPTIANS AREN'T ARABS, THOU SOME MAY HAVE ARAB ADMIXTURE, YOU CAME FROM SOMEWHERE IN THE NORTH OF ARABIA....SOME PLACE CALLED BABYLON!!!! This doesn't mean you are now the rightful owner of ancient African history!
And yes, the abundance of EVIDENCE IS POSTD HERE ON A DAILY BASIS. By studies from different disciplines. Shows who ancient Egyptians were and are!
ARABS are COLD ADAPTED IN LIMB PORTIONS NOT TROPICAL LIKE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS!!!!
And no, it's not the same nose....idiot!
Oh, and for your information. I have posted plenty of pics by now.... debunking your uneducated pseudo madness. So if you truly were from Egypt and Egyptian you would have known and recognised them. BUT YOU DIDN'T! LOOOOOL
So you sneaky like the devil you are took away the pic of the little Egyptian Girl, who genetically closely relates to the Masai men posted along in the previous post .LOOOL
And here are MORE...
Oh, and there is not such thing as a "Arab Copt"...LOL
Coptic is the TRUE AFRICAN CHURCH!!!!!
Egyptians are in their root Hg E* and yes there is admixture, from less to more extend since Egypt was often invaded. For example, "The Copt samples displayed a most interesting Y-profile, enough (as much as that of Gaalien in Sudan) to suggest that they actually represent a living record of the peopling of Egypt. The significant frequency of B-M60 in this group might be a relic of a history of colonization of southern Egypt probably by Nilotics in the early state formation, something that conforms both to recorded history and to Egyptian mythology."--Hassan et al., (2008)
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Gill, George W. Does Race Exist? A Proponent's Perspective. University of Wyoming, 2000
Morphological characteristics ...like skin color, hair form, bone traits, eyes, and lips tend to follow geographic boundaries coinciding often with climatic zones . This is not surprising since the selective forces of climate are probably the primary forces of nature that have shaped human races with regard not only to skin color and hair form but also the underlying bony structures of the nose, cheekbones, etc. (For example, more prominent noses humidify air better.) As far as we know, blood-factor frequencies are not shaped by these same climatic factors..
^^WHat race proponents often avoid saying is that tropical Africans are the most diverse people in the world. If he wants to use the term "race" in a biological sense, then they are the most "diverse race" in the world, with the highest diversty in features. Narrow noses, straight or curly hair, light brown or jet black skin- all these are part of the built-in diversity of the tropical African peoples or "race" - if race terminology is used per people like Gill. This is what race proponents continually avoid, and try to minimize- the original diversity of tropical Africans. They have to keep denying or minimizing tropical African diversity.
Gill says: "First, I have found that forensic anthropologists attain a high degree of accuracy in determining geographic racial affinities (white, black, American Indian, etc.) by utilizing both new and traditional methods of bone analysis. Many well-conducted studies were reported in the late 1980s and 1990s that test methods objectively for percentage of correct placement. Numerous individual methods involving midfacial measurements, femur traits, and so on are over 80 percent accurate alone, and in combination produce very high levels of accuracy.
^^This is all well and good in the United States where reference populations are well defined geographically- West Africans, northern Europeans, East Asians (for the most part) and South/Central Americans. This is continental scale clustering, but it is clustering by geography not by race. This is easy work. In Detroit for example, police forensic analysts basically only have to narrow things down to 4 choices. Since Detroit is mostly black with smaller European, and South American derived populations, analyses of crime scene bones or skulls will generally group into one of the 4 "official" race checkboxes, since generally only those 4 populations (blacks most of all) will be in the local population pool. Under such conditions it is easy to get Gill's touted "80% accuracy." Sure. Skull from guy who was stabbed to death and thrown into city park? The averages and percentages say that it will fall into one of the 4 checkboxes- because that's what most of the local population is- easy work.
BUt these easy geographic clusters break down in ultra-diverse tropical Africa, whose people are the most varied in the world, and defy the Eurocentric racial checkbox approach. Narrow noses are found on cool mountain slopes, hot, arid desert and humid savannah plateau. The failure of forensic anthropologists in the Nile Valley is a case in point. Their computer system FORDISC failed in analyzing Nubians- grouping them with Japanese and far-flung Pacific islanders!
In Egypt, their CRANID reference database is stacked with LATE PERIOD "reference" samples from the FAR NORTH of Egypt, near the Mediterranean, excluding the historic south, rigging the deck so that only the MEditerranean area, which has had more foreign immigration and mixing, and the LATE PERIOD a time of foreign invasions and pharaohs, like Hyskos, Libyans, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks etc, modified that population. With such a stacked deck the results are predictable - the population of ancient Egypt can be spun as "Caucasoid."
Furthermore WITHIN "sub-Saharan" Africa is a wide variety of climatic zones, from searing deserts, to snow capped mountains, to humid jungle, to cool coastlands, to mixed savannah. If as Gill says characteristics often vary by climate, then Africa has all the micro-climates needed to produce such variation. Classifying Africans with narrow noses who live on colder high altitude mountains as "Non-African", just because they have narrow noses, is a hypocritical double-standard, that is inconsistent with the claimed acceptance of climate-driven diversity.
SOme say for example that narrow nosed EUropeans got said noses due to colder climates. FIne. But how come cold climate-high altitude tropical Africans with the same narrow noses are deemed "Non-African" or classified as "mixed race"? This is the central hypocrisy of the EUropean academy as DIop pointed put over 30 years ago. Furthermore in ultra-diverse tropical Africa, narrow noses are also found heavily in desert areas, where they help moisten hot, dry air. But here;s the catch, in ultra-diverse tropical Africans have a wide variety of features than can be found everywhere in the tropical zone. Narrow nosed people are not "limited" or "confined" to high altutude areas but can be found in coastal areas, desert areas, and humid savannah. SO can people with differing skin colors. And tropical Africans are not static people, staying in their "assigned" places, but range widely throughout the continent. Broad nosed, kinky-haired tribes can thus be found on the cold slopes of EAfrican mountains or arid desert, and are not "confined" to "jungle" areas. Tropical Africans can go where they want to go, are not "confined" to desired "checkbox" areas, don't need anyone's "permission" to move around, and don't need any "race mix" with "wandering Caucasoids" or "Middle Easterners" to explain why they all don't look alike.
Tropical climates are extremely diverse from humid rainforest, to higher altitude cold zones, to arid deserts with sharply dropping night temperatures. Scientists find that nose width is correlated with climate with narrower noses seen in dry, conditions such as desert areas in eastern parts of Africa.
QUOTE: "Tropical climates range from oppressively hot and humid lowlands to cold, snow-covered mountains, from hot, dry deserts to cold, dry deserts, from extreme seasonal variability of precipitation to nearly constant year-round conditions." --Huston. M. (1994) Biological diversity: the coexistence of species on changing landscapes Cambridge university Press. p 498
QUOTE: "An important function of the nose is to warm and moisten inspired air. When air is exhaled, some heat and moisture are lost to the surroundings. The longer the nasal passage, the more efficient the nose is for warming and moistening incoming air and also the less heat and moisture are lost on exhalation. A narrow, high nose gives a longer nasal passage than a low, broad nose. Therefore, in cold or dry conditions, a high, narrow nose is preferable for warming and moistening air before it reaches the lings, and for reducing loss of heat and moisture in expired air. In hot, humid conditions a low, broad nose serves to dissipate heat (Wolpoff 1968; Franciscis and Long 1991)... The pattern of variation in nasal index corresponds very broadly to that expected if nasal form is indeed an adaptation to regional climate.
The highest nasal index values, representing broad, low noses, tend to be those of populations in humid tropical regions of Africa and south-east Asia. Populations with low mean nasal indices (high, narrow noses) tend to be found in the cold, northern latitudes, and also in arid regions, such as the desert areas of east Africa and the Arabian peninsula. ..Davies found the nasal index taken in the living was closely correlated with skeletal nasal index. This suggests that there should likewise be an association between skeletal nasal index and climatic zone, and indeed other workers have found this to be the case. -- Mays. S. (2010). The Archaeology of Human Bones. Pg 100-101
2011 study finds significant correlation between nasal shape and climate. Dry areas are common in tropical zone micro-climates such as deserts.
QUOTE: "The nasal cavity is essential for humidifying and warming the air before it reaches the sensitive lungs. Because humans inhabit environments that can be seen as extreme from the perspective of respiratory function, nasal cavity shape is expected to show climatic adaptation.. We report significant correlations between nasal cavity shape and climatic variables of both temperature and humidity. Variation in nasal cavity shape is correlated with a cline from cold-dry climates to hot-humid climates, with a separate temperature and vapor pressure effect. " -- Noback, M. et al. (2011) Climate-related variation of the human nasal cavity. AJPA, 145: 4. 599-614
Tropical climates are extremely diverse from humid rainforest, to higher altitude cold zones, to arid deserts with sharply dropping night temperatures. Scientists find that nose width is correlated with climate with narrower noses seen in dry, conditions such as desert areas in eastern parts of Africa. Tropical Africans are not static people but move around within the continent.
QUOTE: "Tropical climates range from oppressively hot and humid lowlands to cold, snow-covered mountains, from hot, dry deserts to cold, dry deserts, from extreme seasonal variability of precipitation to nearly constant year-round conditions." --Huston. M. (1994) Biological diversity: the coexistence of species on changing landscapes Cambridge university Press. p 498
QUOTE: "An important function of the nose is to warm and moisten inspired air. When air is exhaled, some heat and moisture are lost to the surroundings. The longer the nasal passage, the more efficient the nose is for warming and moistening incoming air and also the less heat and moisture are lost on exhalation. A narrow, high nose gives a longer nasal passage than a low, broad nose. Therefore, in cold or dry conditions, a high, narrow nose is preferable for warming and moistening air before it reaches the lings, and for reducing loss of heat and moisture in expired air. In hot, humid conditions a low, broad nose serves to dissipate heat (Wolpoff 1968; Franciscis and Long 1991)... The pattern of variation in nasal index corresponds very broadly to that expected if nasal form is indeed an adaptation to regional climate.
The highest nasal index values, representing broad, low noses, tend to be those of populations in humid tropical regions of Africa and south-east Asia. Populations with low mean nasal indices (high, narrow noses) tend to be found in the cold, northern latitudes, and also in arid regions, such as the desert areas of east Africa and the Arabian peninsula. ..Davies found the nasal index taken in the living was closely correlated with skeletal nasal index. This suggests that there should likewise be an association between skeletal nasal index and climatic zone, and indeed other workers have found this to be the case. -- Mays. S. (2010). The Archaeology of Human Bones. Pg 100-101
2011 study finds significant correlation between nasal shape and climate. Dry areas are common in tropical zone micro-climates such as deserts.
QUOTE: "The nasal cavity is essential for humidifying and warming the air before it reaches the sensitive lungs. Because humans inhabit environments that can be seen as extreme from the perspective of respiratory function, nasal cavity shape is expected to show climatic adaptation.. We report significant correlations between nasal cavity shape and climatic variables of both temperature and humidity. Variation in nasal cavity shape is correlated with a cline from cold-dry climates to hot-humid climates, with a separate temperature and vapor pressure effect. " -- Noback, M. et al. (2011) Climate-related variation of the human nasal cavity. AJPA, 145: 4. 599-614
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote: ARABS are COLD ADAPTED IN LIMB PORTIONS NOT TROPICAL LIKE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS!!!!
You do realise:
(a) 'Whites' in some studies appear more tropically adapted that African-Americans.
(b) Most 'Whites' are more tropically adapted than African Bushmen (see data below).
(c) 'Whites' are closer in crural index to egyptians than 'Blacks'.
Data here -
GROUP ............... CRURAL INDEX Lapp ................ 79.0 Eskimo .............. 81.5 Belgium ............. 82.5 American White ...... 82.6 S. African White .... 83.2 Bushman ............. 83.4 Yugoslav ............ 83.75 New Mexico Indian ... 84.6 Melanesian .......... 84.8 Egyptian ............ 84.9 Pygmy ............... 85.1 American Black ...... 85.25 Arizona Indian ...... 85.5 S. African Black .... 86.4
Source: The Emergence of Homo Sapiens: The Post Cranial Evidence, G. E. Kennedy, Man, New Series, Vol. 19, No. 1, Mar., 1984, pp. 94-110.
Note how the crural index of those classified as 'White' (of European descent) is closer to Egyptian than African-American in the second study.
As i have been saying, limb length is not a valid criteria for racial identification for obvious overlap.
Some classified as 'Whites' measured are coming out tropically adapted, more so than African-Americans and even indigenous african Bushmen.
Amerindians from south america, who are of the same racial stock, and only live a few miles from each other also display tropically adapted or cold adapted limbs.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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Pharonic limb proportion data - several cluster with Africans
"It can be seen that all the pharonic values, including those of 'Smakhare', lie much closer to the negro curve than to the white curve. Since stature equations only work satisfactorily in the individuals to whom they have applied have similar proportions to the population group from which they are derived, this provides justification for using negro equations for estimating stature from single bones of the New Kingdom pharoahs, renforcing the previous findings of Robins (1983). Furthermore, the Troller and Gleser white equations for the femur, tibia and humerus yield stature values that have a much wider spread than those from negro equations with mean values that are unacceptably large."
--Robins and Schute. The Physical Proportions and Stature of New Kingdom Pharaohs," Journal of Human Evolution 12 (1983), 455-465
and
[quote]
"Robins (1983) and Robins & Shute (1983) have shown that more consistent results are obtained from ancient Egyptian male skeletons if Trotter & Gleser formulae for negro are used, rather than those for whites which have always been applied in the past. .. their physical proportions were more like modern negroes than those of modern whites, with limbs that were relatively long compared with the trunk, and distal segments that were long compared with the proximal segments. If ancient Egyptian males had what may be termed negroid proportions, it seems reasonable that females did likewise." From: (Robins G, Shute CCD. 1986. Predynastic Egyptian stature and physical proportions. Hum Evol 1:313324. Ruff CB. 1994.)
"Estimates of living stature, based on X-ray measurements applied to the Trotter & Gleser (1958) negro equations for the femur, tibia and humerus, have been made for ancient Egyptian kings belonging to the 18th and 19th dynasties. The corresponding equations for whites give values for stature that are unsatisfactorily high. The view that Thutmose III was excessively short is proved to be a myth. It is shown that the limbs of the pharaohs, like those of other Ancient Egyptians, had negroid characteristics, in that the distal segments were relatively long in comparison with the proximal segments. An exception was Ramesses II, who appears to have had short legs below the knees."
--Robins and Schute. The Physical Proportions and Stature of New Kingdom Pharaohs," Journal of Human Evolution 12 (1983), 455-465
Limb proportions of Northerners cluster with Africans
full citations:
"Limb length proportions in males from Maadi and Merimde group them with African rather than European populations. Mean femur length in males from Maadi was similar to that recorded at Byblos and the early Bronze Age male from Kabri, but mean tibia length in Maadi males was 6.9cm longer than that at Byblos. At Merimde both bones were longer than at the other sites shown, but again, the tibia was longer proportionate to femurs than at Byblos (Fig 6.2), reinforcing the impression of an African rather than Levantine affinity."
-- Smith, P. (2002) The palaeo-biological evidence for admixture between populations in the southern Levant and Egypt in the fourth to third millennia BCE. in E.C.M van den Brink and TE Levy, eds. Egypt and the Levant: interrelations from the 4th through the 3rd millenium, BCE. Leicester Univ Press: 2002, 118-28
"These same log shape variables were subjected to two forms of cluster analysis: neighbor-joining (NJ) and unweighted pair-group method using averages (UPGMA) tree analysis. Figure 8 is the NJ tree. It has two main branchesa long and linear body build branch that includes the Egyptians, Sub-Saharan Africans (except for the Pygmies), and African-Americans and a second, less linear body form branch that includes the Inuit, Europeans, Euro-Americans, Puebloans, Nubians, and Pygmies. Note that the Nubians used in this study are thought by some to represent an immigrant population from Europe or Western Asia [see Holliday (1995)]."
--Holiday, T. (2010) Body proportions of circumpolar peoples as evidenced from skeletal data. AmerJrPhyAntrho, 142: 2. 287-302
Ancient "Middle Easterners" lack the tropical body proportions of ancient Egyptians
Ancient "Middle Easterners" lack the tropical body proportions of ancient Egyptians
QUOTE:
"There is long-standing disagreement regarding Upper Pleistocene human evolution in Western Asia, particularly the Levant. Some argue that there were two different populations, perhaps different species, of Upper Pleistocene Levantine hominids. The first, from the Israeli sites of Qafzeh and Skhul, is anatomically modern. The second, from sites such as Amud, Kebara, and Tabun, is archaic, or "Neandertal" in morphology. Others argue that this is a false dichotomy and that all of these hominids belong to a single, highly variable population. In this paper I attempt to resolve this issue by examining postcranial measures reflective of body shape. Results indicate that the Qafzeh-Skhul hominids have African-like, or tropically adapted, proportions, while those from Amud, Kebara, Tabun, and Shanidar (Iraq) have more European-like, or cold-adapted, proportions. This suggests that there were in fact two distinct Western Asian populations and that the Qafzeh-Skhul hominids were likely African in origin - a result consistent with the "Replacement" model of modern human origins.
"What we can say, however, is that in the Holocene, humans from southwest Asia do not exhibit tropically adapted body shape (Crognier 1981; Eveleth and Tanner 1976; Schreider 1975). In addition, while Levantine winters today are generally characterized as mild (Henkin et al. 1998), they are nonetheless quite often cold, with frequent snowfallfor example, the winter of 1992 was particularly cold and snowy in Israel (Vishnevetsky and Steinberger 19%). Given that the Holocene is a warm phase, yet recent Levantine humans do not exhibit a tropically adapted morphology, there is little reason to assume that in the (generally colder) Pleistocene epoch, natural selection alone could result in tropically adapted morphology in the region.
Thus, the discovery of tropically adapted hominids in the region would therefore likely indicate population dispersal from the TROPICS, and the most logical geographic source for such an influx is Africa. In this regard, Trinkaus (1981, 1984, 1995) and Ruff (1994) have argued that the high brachial and crural indices, narrow biiliac breadths, and small relative femoral head sizes of the Qafzeh-Skhul hominids suggest an influx of African genes associated with the emergence of modern humans in the region."
---Trenton Holliday (2000) Evolution at the Crossroads: Modern Human Emergence in Western Asia. American Anthropologist. New Series, Vol. 102, No. 1, 54-68
Body proportions are immensely stable, and appear distinctly even in the fetal stage of life. Body shape is also more resistant to nutritional deficiency and disease. Even in migrant populations body proportions are conservative, and not very plastic. Hence ancient Egyptian proportions are long-standing, conservative, stable elements that characterize the ancient populations to a much greater extent than more changeable skin color or face shape.
QUOTE:
"Human body proportions also appear to have a substantial genetic component. Differences in body proportions between Eskimos and non-Eskimos, for example, appear early in ontogeny (Guilbeault & Morazain, 1965; YEdynak, 1978). The low sitting height/stature ratio of Australian aborigines is present early in development (Eveleth & Tanner, 1976). Schultz (1923, 1926) found significant differences between AfricanAmerican and Euroamerican fetuses in brachial and crural indices, length of the legs relative to the trunk, and relative pelvic width. The fact that these racial features are manifested early in fetal life indicates strong genetic encoding of body and limb proportions.
In addition, body shape in human appears to be more resistant to nutritional deficiency or disease than is body size (Stini, 1975; Eveleth & Tanner, 1976; Frisancho & Housh, 1988; Martorell et al., 1988). Body proportions of human migrants, for example, are conservative; despite often exhibiting a marked increase in stature, children of migrants tend to retain the body proportions of their ancestral homeland, and do not develop the proportions of their new neighbors (Ito, 1942; Lasker, 1946; Trotter & Gleser, 1952, 1958; Greulich, 1957; Eveleth, 1966; Froehlich, 1970; Benoist, 1971, 1975; Hamill et al., 1973; Martorell et al., 1988; Feldesman et al., 1990). Also, while secular trends in body shape have been documented, they do not negate the value of body proportions as short-term phylogenetic markers. For example, in a long-term study of secular trends in body shape in Japan (Tanner et al., 1982), the authors note that nutritional differences alone cannot explain all of the global variability in body shape. Rather, they note that much of the difference seen today in body shape between broad geographic groups is genetically-driven.
Migration within a larger time framework took place ca. 15,00018,000 BP, when the first Asian populations crossed the Bering Strait, ultimately founding the modern Amerindian population. Despite having as much as 18,000 years of selection in environments as diverse as those found in the Old World, body mass and proportion clines in the Americas are less steep than those in the Old World (Newman, 1953; Roberts, 1978). In fact, as Hulse (1960) pointed out, Amerindians, even in the tropics, tend to possess some arctic adaptations. Thus he concluded that it must take more than 15,000 years for modern humans to fully adapt to a new environment (see also Trinkaus, 1992). This suggests that body proportions tend not to be very plastic under natural conditions, and that selective rates on body shape are such that evolution in these features is long-term." --Holliday T. (1997). Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins. Jrnl Hum Evo. 32: 423-447
IF WE ARE LOOKING AT EGYPTIANS COMPARED TO TROPICAL PEOPLES LIKE US BLACKS RESULT: TROPICAL
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
troll: when u find black african looklike this statue above,i would believe ancient egyptians were africans
You braindead person LOL@ your black american ladies, those images for girls of half white half black like OBAMA!
Not real egyptians....the native egyptians were pure, we had our own race since ancient times.... Gonna post more pics of ancient egyptians to shut ur mouth
laters anyway.... the problem: some western so called professors help you in your theories because of that false evolution theory of apes( with mr.darwin imaginations,they went for a faith that We evolved from Apes, and african apes were origin of mankind,then those apes evolved by time to african blacks and then by time, colour was changed....etc).
Total bullsh!t.....We not evlove from apes at all, Blacks didnt exist in early age of life at all
Posts: 52 | From: egypt | Registered: Apr 2012
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posted
The nubians are not the origin of ancient egypt, The black nubians were brought from african lands to egypt by ancient egyptians.
Your studies are waste of time, and based on stupidity LOL@ study of 2009.
My grand ancient egyptians used to hunt humans of jungles and bring them inside egypt understand?
Posts: 52 | From: egypt | Registered: Apr 2012
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quote:Originally posted by egyptian85: The nubians are not the origin of ancient egypt, The black nubians were brought from african lands to egypt by ancient egyptians.
Your studies are waste of time, and based on stupidity LOL@ study of 2009.
My grand ancient egyptians used to hunt humans of jungles and bring them inside egypt understand?
FAKE EGYPTIAN, NUBIA IS AT THE MODERN BORDER OF EGYPT AND SUDAN, where the culture and history arose!!!!!!!! The name Nubian is a cluster name for many groups from the South. In fact the entire South is NUBIA/ NUBIAN, fake Egyptian!!!!!
THE SAME PEOPLE HAVE LIVED AT THE SAME LOCATION FOR TENS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS!!!!
Your mindless babbles are MEANINGLESS!!!!!!!
Then a king will come from the South, Ameny, the justified, my name, Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt, He will take the white crown, he willjoin the Two Mighty Ones (the two crowns)
Asiatics will fall to his sword, Libyans will fall to his flame, Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might, As the serpent on his brow subdues the rebels for him, One will build the Walls-of-the-Ruler, To bar Asiatics from entering Egypt...
By The Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Wadi Kubbaniya (ca. 17,00015,000 B.C.)
Although no signs of houses were found, diverse and sophisticated stone implements for hunting, fishing, and collecting and processing plants were discovered around hearths.
In Egypt, the earliest evidence of humans can be recognized only from tools found scattered over an ancient surface, sometimes with hearths nearby. In Wadi Kubbaniya, a dried-up streambed cutting through the Western Desert to the floodplain northwest of Aswan in Upper Egypt, some interesting sites of the kind described above have been recorded. A cluster of Late Paleolithic camps was located in two different topographic zones: on the tops of dunes and the floor of the wadi (streambed) where it enters the valley. Although no signs of houses were found, diverse and sophisticated stone implements for hunting, fishing, and collecting and processing plants were discovered around hearths. Most tools were bladelets made from a local stone called chert that is widely used in tool fabrication. The bones of wild cattle, hartebeest, many types of fish and birds, as well as the occasional hippopotamus have been identified in the occupation layers. Charred remains of plants that the inhabitants consumed, especially tubers, have also been found.
It appears from the zoological and botanical remains at the various sites in this wadi that the two environmental zones were exploited at different times. We know that the dune sites were occupied when the Nile River flooded the wadi because large numbers of fish and migratory bird bones were found at this location. When the water receded, people then moved down onto the silt left behind on the wadi floor and the floodplain, probably following large animals that looked for water there in the dry season. Paleolithic peoples lived at Wadi Kubbaniya for about 2,000 years, exploiting the different environments as the seasons changed. Other ancient camps have been discovered along the Nile from Sudan to the Mediterranean, yielding similar tools and food remains. These sites demonstrate that the early inhabitants of the Nile valley and its nearby deserts had learned how to exploit local environments, developing economic strategies that were maintained in later cultural traditions of pharaonic Egypt.
Diana Craig Patch
Department of Egyptian Art, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Laura Anne Tedesco
Department of Education, The Metropolitan Museum of Art ons of linear body proportions of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom period individuals, and workers and high officials in our sample found no statistically significant differences among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also found little evidence for differences in linear body proportions of Egyptians over a wider temporal range.
Nick A. Drakea,1, Roger M. Blenchb, Simon J. Armitagec, Charlie S. Bristowd, and Kevin H. Whitee
a Department of Geography, Kings College London, Strand, London WC2R 2LS, United Kingdom; b Kay Williamson Educational Foundation, 8 Guest Road, Cambridge CB1 2AL, United Kingdom; c Department of Geography, Royal Holloway, University of London, Egham, Surrey TW20 0EX, United Kingdom; dSchool of Earth Sciences, Birkbeck College, University of London, Malet Street, London WC1E 7HX, United Kingdom; and eDepartment of Geography, University of Reading, Whiteknights, Reading RG6 6AB, United Kingdom
Edited by Ofer Bar-Yosef, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, and approved November 22, 2010 (received for review August 23, 2010)
Ancient watercourses and biogeography of the Sahara explain the peopling of the desert
Evidence increasingly suggests that sub-Saharan Africa is at the center of human evolution and understanding routes of dispersal out of Africa is thus becoming increasingly important. The Sahara Desert is considered by many to be an obstacle to these dispersals and a Nile corridor route has been proposed to cross it. Here we provide evidence that the Sahara was not an effective barrier and indicate how both animals and humans populated it during past humid phases. Analysis of the zoogeography of the Sahara shows that more animals crossed via this route than used the Nile corridor. Furthermore, many of these species are aquatic. This dis- persal was possible because during the Holocene humid period the region contained a series of linked lakes, rivers, and inland deltas comprising a large interlinked waterway, channeling water and an- imals into and across the Sahara, thus facilitating these dispersals. This system was last active in the early Holocene when many spe- cies appear to have occupied the entire Sahara. However, species that require deep water did not reach northern regions because of weak hydrological connections. Human dispersals were influenced by this distribution; Nilo-Saharan speakers hunting aquatic fauna with barbed bone points occupied the southern Sahara, while peo- ple hunting Savannah fauna with the bow and arrow spread south- ward. The dating of lacustrine sediments show that the green Sahara also existed during the last interglacial (∼125 ka) and pro- vided green corridors that could have formed dispersal routes at a likely time for the migration of modern humans out of Africa.
quote:Originally posted by egyptian85: troll: when u find black african looklike this statue above,i would believe ancient egyptians were africans
You braindead person LOL@ your black american ladies, those images for girls of half white half black like OBAMA!
Not real egyptians....the native egyptians were pure, we had our own race since ancient times.... Gonna post more pics of ancient egyptians to shut ur mouth
laters anyway.... the problem: some western so called professors help you in your theories because of that false evolution theory of apes( with mr.darwin imaginations,they went for a faith that We evolved from Apes, and african apes were origin of mankind,then those apes evolved by time to african blacks and then by time, colour was changed....etc).
Total bullsh!t.....We not evlove from apes at all, Blacks didnt exist in early age of life at all
I already did but you are to DUMB TOO EVEN UNDERSTAND!!!!LOOOL
Which is a crying shame!
LOOOOOL
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by egyptian85: Such like you american blacks came to USA, the white americans brought u to American lands!
ciao, now....later
LOL AT THIS MAMLUK/ SAQALIBA!!!! YEAH, LOOK THAT ONE UP!!!
Now, back to reality!
quote:
"When the Elephantine results were added to a broader pooling of the physical characteristics drawn from a wide geographic region which includes Africa, the Mediterranean and the Near East quite strong affinities emerge between Elephantine and populations from Nubia, supporting a strong south-north cline."
Barry Kemp. (2006) Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilization. p. 54
quote:
Science. 2006 Aug 11;313(5788):803-7. Epub 2006 Jul 20.
Climate-controlled Holocene occupation in the Sahara: motor of Africa's evolution.
Kuper R, Krφpelin S.
Source
Collaborative Research Center 389 (ACACIA), University of Cologne, Institute of Prehistoric Archaeology, Africa Research Unit, Jennerstrasse 8, 50823 Kφln, Germany.
Abstract
Radiocarbon data from 150 archaeological excavations in the now hyper-arid Eastern Sahara of Egypt, Sudan, Libya, and Chad reveal close links between climatic variations and prehistoric occupation during the past 12,000 years. Synoptic multiple-indicator views for major time slices demonstrate the transition from initial settlement after the sudden onset of humid conditions at 8500 B.C.E. to the exodus resulting from gradual desiccation since 5300 B.C.E.
Southward shifting of the desert margin helped trigger the emergence of pharaonic civilisation along the Nile, influenced the spread of pastoralism throughout the continent, and affects sub-Saharan Africa to the present day.
quote:
The male cranium above is from Wadi al-Halfa on the Sudan-Egypt border. Dating from the Mesolithic-Holocene period, it is typical of crania in Sudan and surrounding regions from that time frame. More recent Nubian crania from the Christian period have more rounded skulls without the sloping frontal bone. However, the vertical zygomatic arch, prominent glabella, sagittal plateau, and occipital bun (less pronounced) are retained. The cranium above has pronounced facial prognathism, but moderate dental protrusion. The chin is vertical with a angular mandible and very squat ramus. (Image from David Lee Greene and George Armelagos. The Wadi Halfa mesolithic population. (Amherst: University of Massachusetts, 1972)
quote:
l-Barga reveals one of the most important necropoleis of the early Holocene in Africa.
This site was discovered in 2001 during a survey concentrating on the zones bordering the alluvial plain. The name el-Barga is borrowed from a nearby mountain. The site is located on an elevation formed by an outcrop of bedrock (Nubian sandstone) less than 15 km from the Nile, as the crow flies. It includes a settlement area dated to circa 7500 B.C. and cemeteries belonging to two distinct periods.
The habitation is a circular hut slightly less than five metres in diameter, its maximum depth exceeding 50 centimetres. This semi-subterranean structure contained a wealth of artefacts resulting from the sites occupation (ceramics, grinding tools, flint objects, ostrich eggshell beads, a mother-of-pearl pendant, bone tools, faunal remains, shells). The abundance of artefacts discovered suggests a marked inclination towards a sedentary lifestyle, even though certain activities (fishing and hunting) necessitate seasonal migration.
North of this habitation, about forty burials were dated to the Epipalaeolithic (7700-7000 B.C.) and generally do not contain any furnishings. On the other hand, the Neolithic cemetery (6000-5500 B.C.) located further south comprises about a hundred burials often containing artefacts (adornment, ceramics, flint or bone objects).
For further information, read the publications by M. Honegger.
quote:
PLoS One. 2008 Aug 14;3(8):e2995.
Lakeside cemeteries in the Sahara: [5000 years of holocene population and environmental change.
Sereno PC et al.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Approximately two hundred human burials were discovered on the edge of a paleolake in Niger that provide a uniquely preserved record of human occupation in the Sahara during the Holocene ( approximately 8000 B.C.E. to the present). Called Gobero, this suite of closely spaced sites chronicles the rapid pace of biosocial change in the southern Sahara in response to severe climatic fluctuation.
METHODOLOGY/PRINCIPAL FINDINGS:
Two main occupational phases are identified that correspond with humid intervals in the early and mid-Holocene, based on 78 direct AMS radiocarbon dates on human remains, fauna and artifacts, as well as 9 OSL dates on paleodune sand. The older occupants have craniofacial dimensions that demonstrate similarities with mid-Holocene occupants of the southern Sahara and Late Pleistocene to early Holocene inhabitants of the Maghreb. Their hyperflexed burials compose the earliest cemetery in the Sahara dating to approximately 7500 B.C.E. These early occupants abandon the area under arid conditions and, when humid conditions return approximately 4600 B.C.E., are replaced by a more gracile people with elaborated grave goods including animal bone and ivory ornaments.
CONCLUSIONS/SIGNIFICANCE:
The principal significance of Gobero lies in its extraordinary human, faunal, and archaeological record, from which we conclude the following: The early Holocene occupants at Gobero (7700-6200 B.C.E.) were largely sedentary hunter-fisher-gatherers with lakeside funerary sites that include the earliest recorded cemetery in the Sahara.Principal components analysis of craniometric variables closely allies the early Holocene occupants at Gobero with a skeletally robust, trans-Saharan assemblage of Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene human populations from the Maghreb and southern Sahara.Gobero was abandoned during a period of severe aridification possibly as long as one millennium (6200-5200 B.C.E). More gracile humans arrived in the mid-Holocene (5200-2500 B.C.E.) employing a diversified subsistence economy based on clams, fish, and savanna vertebrates as well as some cattle husbandry.Population replacement after a harsh arid hiatus is the most likely explanation for the occupational sequence at Gobero.We are just beginning to understand the anatomical and cultural diversity that existed within the Sahara during the Holocene.
It's funny how the entire world can read along what kind of dumb arse you are.
You should post your picture, so we can see what kind of dumb face goes with this dumb arse.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Damn TP, Im loving all the info you are dropping here, great stuff for my blog...
Do you have any more??
Jari, can you make some space in your mailbox.
This is some real good stuff.
Yale Egyptological Institute in Egypt
Early Neolithic to Predynastic/A-Group
"Remains in the immediate eastern foreland of Kurkur, just east of the Sinn el-Kiddab escarpment, are sparse. Numerous and widely distributed hearth mounds18 occur in the area. Pottery, though sparse, further demonstrates the association of early Nile Valley and Western Desert cultures. "
quote: ARABS are COLD ADAPTED IN LIMB PORTIONS NOT TROPICAL LIKE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS!!!!
You do realise:
(a) 'Whites' in some studies appear more tropically adapted that African-Americans.
(b) Most 'Whites' are more tropically adapted than African Bushmen (see data below).
(c) 'Whites' are closer in crural index to egyptians than 'Blacks'.
Data here -
GROUP ............... CRURAL INDEX Lapp ................ 79.0 Eskimo .............. 81.5 Belgium ............. 82.5 American White ...... 82.6 S. African White .... 83.2 Bushman ............. 83.4 Yugoslav ............ 83.75 New Mexico Indian ... 84.6 Melanesian .......... 84.8 Egyptian ............ 84.9 Pygmy ............... 85.1 American Black ...... 85.25 Arizona Indian ...... 85.5 S. African Black .... 86.4
Source: The Emergence of Homo Sapiens: The Post Cranial Evidence, G. E. Kennedy, Man, New Series, Vol. 19, No. 1, Mar., 1984, pp. 94-110.
Note how the crural index of those classified as 'White' (of European descent) is closer to Egyptian than African-American in the second study.
As i have been saying, limb length is not a valid criteria for racial identification for obvious overlap.
Some classified as 'Whites' measured are coming out tropically adapted, more so than African-Americans and even indigenous african Bushmen.
Amerindians from south america, who are of the same racial stock, and only live a few miles from each other also display tropically adapted or cold adapted limbs.
DUMB ARSE you realise!!!!!!!!!
1) This has nothing to do with Amerindians.
2) Some Amerindians migrated only recently from the North to the South.
3) Some places in South America have a cold environment.
4) Anyone with half a brain understand that you can't develop tropical/ WARM adapted limbs will having lived in a COLD environment for tens of thousands of years....It takes about 15.000 years to develop a transgression from COLD to WARM/ tropical limbs and vice versa, unless sex-base plays part.
quote: Stanley H. Ambrose Department of Anthropology, University of Illinois,
Journal of Human Evolution (1998) 34, 623651
Late Pleistocene human population bottlenecks, volcanic winter, and differentiation of modern humans
The cause, timing and location of bottleneck releases
If population release was due to the natural increase (logistic population growth) of disease-resistant populations following epidemics, then growth could have been relatively rapid, a function of the intrinsic rate of increase of disease-resistant popula-tions, and the duration of the bottleneck relatively brief. Its date could have been at any time, but would presumably have been relatively soon after the bottleneck. Release could have occurred wherever disease-resistant individuals survived.
If release was due to natural increase in founder population size after dispersing across land bridges or narrow straits (Lahr, 1996; Lahr & Foley, 1994) then release dates would vary from 7050 ka for the early Australasian dispersal, to 45 ka for the second Levantine dispersal. In the epidemic and dispersal scenarios the dura-tion of the bottleneck would have been brief.
If bottlenecks were caused by the cold, arid climate of isotope stage 4 then their duration was approximately 10 ka and release could have been as late as 60 ka.
The failure of early modern humans to survive in the Levant during the early last glacial implies they were not yet physiologically and/or behaviorally well-adapted to cold climates and Palearctic environments, or at least not as well-adapted as neanderthals.
The Multiple Dispersals model (Figure 3) proposes that a population bottleneck occurred during oxygen isotope stage 6, when cold, dry climates caused isolation and differentiation of populations within Africa.
If bottlenecks were caused by the cold, arid climate of isotope stage 4 then their duration was approximately 10 ka and release could have been as late as 60 ka.
Global climate change could have reduced populations during the early last ice age, oxygen isotope stage 4
... As noted above, the replacement of modern humans by neander- thals in the Levant, suggests African modern humans were rather poorly-adapted to cold climates.
quote: Northern Egypt near the Mediterranean shows the same pattern- limb length data puts its peoples closer to tropically adapted Africans that cold climate Europeans
"...sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine.
The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans." Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy"
Course, "some African Americans" have a relative high dosage of cold adapted West European admixture. Which makes it self-explanatory. However, they AREN'T COLD ADAPTED!!!!!!
And on the other hand...we have "some whites" with tropical sub -Saharan African admixture. Which makes it self-explanatory.
So it is for your Yugoslavians with tropical sub-Saharan admixture.
Logic follows, in order to have tropical limbs you need to have tropical ancestry. You can't grow "tropical adapted limbs" in a cold region. Hence cold adapted limbs.
Simply put, in understandable ways for you, they have n*gger blood.
As you can read in the phylogeny tree and maps, E-M81 is very minimal in Europe. lol
The distribution shows E-M78. V13 is a downstream marker and genetic drifted. Lilkely it mutated during or shortly after the Holocene, Neoletic time, when the climate in that region had warm and cold loops. While these people originated from a different climate (tropical). V13 is barely found in Africa.lol
Here, we describe a system for the molecular dissection of haplogroup E-M78 (E1b1b1a), consisting of multiplex polymerase chain reaction and minisequencing of M78 and nine population-informative Y-SNPs (M148, M224, V12, V13, V19, V22, V27, V32, V65) in a single reaction.
Phylogeny of Y-chromosome haplogroups and their frequencies (%) in the examined populations. Nomenclature and haplogroup labelling according to the Y Chromosome Consortium (http://ycc.biosci.arizona.edu/) updated according to Karafet et al. 32 *Paragroups: Y chromosomes not defined by any phylogenetic downstream-reported and -examined mutation. aIntrapopulation haplogroup diversity. The terminal markers of haplogroups E-V12 and E-V13 (V32 and V27, respectively) were typed but did not show any variation.
Frequency (left) and variance (right) distributions of the main Y-chromosome haplogroups, I-M423, E-V13 and J-M241, observed in this survey. Frequency data are reported in Figure 2, variance data are relative to the examined microsatellite reported in the Supplementary Table S2. We acknowledge that interpolated spatial frequency surfaces should be viewed with caution because of sample size.41 Data from this study. Frequency and variance values were assigned to sample-collection places (dots). Population samples (geographically close) with less than five observations were pooled and the corresponding variance assigned to a middle position of the pooled sample locations. +Data from the literature.13, 23, 27, 28, 36, 45, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54
quote: ARABS are COLD ADAPTED IN LIMB PORTIONS NOT TROPICAL LIKE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS!!!!
You do realise:
(a) 'Whites' in some studies appear more tropically adapted that African-Americans.
(b) Most 'Whites' are more tropically adapted than African Bushmen (see data below).
(c) 'Whites' are closer in crural index to egyptians than 'Blacks'.
Data here -
GROUP ............... CRURAL INDEX Lapp ................ 79.0 Eskimo .............. 81.5 Belgium ............. 82.5 American White ...... 82.6 S. African White .... 83.2 Bushman ............. 83.4 Yugoslav ............ 83.75 New Mexico Indian ... 84.6 Melanesian .......... 84.8 Egyptian ............ 84.9 Pygmy ............... 85.1 American Black ...... 85.25 Arizona Indian ...... 85.5 S. African Black .... 86.4
Source: The Emergence of Homo Sapiens: The Post Cranial Evidence, G. E. Kennedy, Man, New Series, Vol. 19, No. 1, Mar., 1984, pp. 94-110.
Note how the crural index of those classified as 'White' (of European descent) is closer to Egyptian than African-American in the second study.
As i have been saying, limb length is not a valid criteria for racial identification for obvious overlap.
Some classified as 'Whites' measured are coming out tropically adapted, more so than African-Americans and even indigenous african Bushmen.
Amerindians from south america, who are of the same racial stock, and only live a few miles from each other also display tropically adapted or cold adapted limbs.
DUMB ARSE, you realise!!!!!!!!!
1) This has nothing to do with Amerindians.
2) Some Amerindians migrated only recently from the North to the South.
3) Some places in South America have a cold environment.
Repost,
BJMG 11/2 (2008) 25-30 10.2478/v10034-008-0030-0
ALU INSERTION POLYMORPHISMS IN POPULATIONS OF THE SOUTH CAUCASUS
Litvinov S* et al.
Although it was not possible to determine a contribution of Neolithic farmers to the Caucasian gene pool, the principal component analysis showed clear differences between these populations and those of Europe, Siberia and Asia. No evidence of correlation between genetic and linguistic data in our populations was disclosed.
Armenians are a separate ethnic group, which originated from Neolithic tribes of the Armenian Uplands. In the 12th- 11th centuries BC...
However, we cannot exclude a Neolithic contribution to the contemporary gene pool. The possible reason for the absence of the frequency distribution gradient can be genetic drift, reinforced by isolation that could conceal the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasus populations [1,21].
While an Alu insertion marker does not have enough power of resolution to assess the contribution of the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasian gene pool, it clearly separates both South and North Caucasus populations (except Karanogays) from Siberian and Asian populations.
C.L. Brace (2005): "If the late Pleistocene Natufian sample from Israel is the source from which that Neolithic spread was derived, there was clearly a sub-Saharan African element present of almost equal importance as the Late Prehistoric Eurasian element."
Larry Angel (1972): "one can identify Negroid traits of nose and prognathism appearing in Natufian latest hunters.(McCown, 1939) and in Anatolian and Macedonian first farmers, probably from Nubia via the predecesors of the Badarians and Tasians...
The Emergence of the Natufian
The emergence of the Natufian is explained by Bar-Yosef (1998) as follows: On the one hand, climatic improvements around 13,000BP provided a wealth of food resources. On the other hand, contemporaneous population growth in both the steppic and desertic regions made any abrupt, short-term climatic fluctuation a motivation for human groups to achieve control over resources (p.167). He sees a semi-sedentary lifestyle resulting from environmental change which led to a shift of resource scheduling (p.167).
Fellner (1995) states that the transition from the Geometric Kebaran to the Early Natufian culture can be described as the most important cultural change within the Epipalaeolithic of Palestine, as the lifestyle of the Natufian groups differed very substantially from that practiced by their Geometric Kebaran ancestors (p.122) The Natufian is usually seen as a key stage in Near Eastern Prehistory as it represents many features usually associated with the Neolithic. - courtesy of neareast historians, uk; epipaleolithic background.
The Mushabian is founded in southern Jordan, the Negev, and Sinai. It is usually divided into an earlier phase (c.14,500-12,800bp) and a later phase which overlaps with the Early Natufian (12,800-11,000bp).
The Classic Mushabian is characterized by a dominance of arched-back bladelets, La Mouillah points, and scalene triangles, all of which were truncated at one end using the microburin technique. Helwan lunates are also featured.
Evidence for economic activities are few and far between there are very few botanical or faunal remains, but some rare pounding tools suggest that plant exploitation was a feature of the economy. Bar-Yosef and Meadow (1999) hypothesize that the subsistence strategies employed in the Mushabian were much the same as those of the steppic Geometric Kebaran and Hamran groups.
The Mushabian was traditionally thought to derive from North Africa via the Nile Delta and the Sinai: The Mushabian sites in Sinai are interpreted as the remains of mobile groups budded off from the Nile region who were attracted to the expanding, lusher steppic environment (Bar-Yosef and Meadow 1999, p.55). This view was based on the early occurrence of the microburin technique in industries like the Sisilian. However, the recent discovery of even earlier use of the microburin technique in the Azraq Basin fundamentally weakens the argument, and may even indicate diffusion of this technique in the other direction (Fellner 1995, p.26). Fellner believes that the Mushabian is most likely to derive from the Nizzanian of the Negev. - courtesy of neareast historians, uk; epipaleolithic background.
"From the Mesolithic to the early Neolithic period different lines of evidence support an out-of-Africa Mesolithic migration to the Levant by northeastern African groups that had biological affinities with sub-Saharan populations. From a genetic point of view, several recent genetic studies have shown that sub-Sabaran genetic lineages (affiliated with the Y-chromosome PN2 clade; Underhill et al. 2001) have spread through Egypt into the Near East, the Mediterranean area, and, for some lineages, as far north as Turkey (E3b-M35 Y lineage; Cinniogclu et al. 2004; Luis et al. 2004), probably during several dispersal episodes since the Mesolithic (Cinniogelu et al. 2004; King et al. 2008; Lucotte and Mercier 2003; Luis et al. 2004; Quintana-Murci et al. 1999; Semino et al. 2004; Underhill et al. 2001). This finding is in agreement with morphological data that suggest that populations with sub-Saharan morphological elements were present in northeastern Africa, from the Paleolithic to at least the early Holocene, and diffused northward to the Levant and Anatolia beginning in the Mesolithic.
Indeed, the rare and incomplete Paleolithic to early Neolithic skeletal specimens found in Egypt - such as the 33,000-year-old Nazlet Khater specimen (Pinhasi and Semai 2000), the Wadi Kubbaniya skeleton from the late Paleolithic site in the upper Nile valley (Wendorf et al. 1986), the Qarunian (Faiyum) early Neolithic crania (Henneberg et al. 1989; Midant-Reynes 2000), and the Nabta specimen from the Neolithic Nabta Playa site in the western desert of Egypt (Henneberg et al. 1980) - show, with regard to the great African biological diversity, similarities with some of the sub-Saharan middle Paleolithic and modern sub-Saharan specimens.
This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans has also been noticed by several other investigators (Angel 1972; Berry and Berry 1967, 1972; Keita 1995) and has been recently reinforced by the study of Brace et al. (2005), which clearly shows that the cranial morphology of prehistoric and recent northeast African populations is linked to sub-Saharan populations (Niger-Congo populations). These results support the hypothesis that some of the Paleolithic-early Holocene populations from northeast Africa were probably descendents of sub-Saharan ancestral populations...... This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005).
In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005), in concordance with a process of demie diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote: ARABS are COLD ADAPTED IN LIMB PORTIONS NOT TROPICAL LIKE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS!!!!
You do realise:
(a) 'Whites' in some studies appear more tropically adapted that African-Americans.
(b) Most 'Whites' are more tropically adapted than African Bushmen (see data below).
(c) 'Whites' are closer in crural index to egyptians than 'Blacks'.
Data here -
GROUP ............... CRURAL INDEX Lapp ................ 79.0 Eskimo .............. 81.5 Belgium ............. 82.5 American White ...... 82.6 S. African White .... 83.2 Bushman ............. 83.4 Yugoslav ............ 83.75 New Mexico Indian ... 84.6 Melanesian .......... 84.8 Egyptian ............ 84.9 Pygmy ............... 85.1 American Black ...... 85.25 Arizona Indian ...... 85.5 S. African Black .... 86.4
Source: The Emergence of Homo Sapiens: The Post Cranial Evidence, G. E. Kennedy, Man, New Series, Vol. 19, No. 1, Mar., 1984, pp. 94-110.
Note how the crural index of those classified as 'White' (of European descent) is closer to Egyptian than African-American in the second study.
As i have been saying, limb length is not a valid criteria for racial identification for obvious overlap.
Some classified as 'Whites' measured are coming out tropically adapted, more so than African-Americans and even indigenous african Bushmen.
Amerindians from south america, who are of the same racial stock, and only live a few miles from each other also display tropically adapted or cold adapted limbs.
quote:Originally posted by AGάEYBANΑ(Mind718): Of course it does matter...
"The only exception is Robins and Schute's (1983) crural indices for Egyptian Pharaohs, which are lower, although these were derived using a different technique-radiography rather than direct measurement- which could acount for the difference."
Different and new techniques are being used, hence why I said you need to know...
quote:Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: a new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature.
Raxter MH, Ruff CB,
Abstract
Trotter and Gleser's (Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 10 (1952) 469-514; Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 16 (1958) 79-123) long bone formulae for US Blacks or derivations thereof (Robins and Shute: Hum Evol 1 (1986) 313-324) have been previously used to estimate the stature of ancient Egyptians. However, limb length to stature proportions differ between human populations; consequently, the most accurate mathematical stature estimates will be obtained when the population being examined is as similar as possible in proportions to the population used to create the equations. The purpose of this study was to create new stature regression formulae based on direct reconstructions of stature in ancient Egyptians and assess their accuracy in comparison to other stature estimation methods. We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites. Living stature estimates were derived using a revised Fully anatomical method (Raxter et al.: Am J Phys Anthropol 130 (2006) 374-384). Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical. The newly generated Egyptian-based stature regression formulae have standard errors of estimate of 1.9-4.2 cm. All mean directional differences are less than 0.4% compared to anatomically estimated stature, while results using previous formulae are more variable, with mean directional biases varying between 0.2% and 1.1%, tibial and radial estimates being the most biased. There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formulae may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas."
(Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
^^^^ Troll Patty wouldn't you say some of the people above don't look pure African? What do you think? To me they look maybe half African and I think if they had their DNA tested it would probably show something like that. This suggests that the anceint Egyptians, like the ones you posted next to the modern people might have been quite "mixed"
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ^^^^ Troll Patty wouldn't you say some of the people above don't look pure African? What do you think? To me they look maybe half African and I think if they had their DNA tested it would probably show something like that. This suggests that the anceint Egyptians, like the ones you posted next to the modern people might have been quite "mixed"
More burp... fart...****...arguments by this imposter, Muktaba, with your non-African pictures. By "Mr. I have never been to Egypt"."But, I want Egypt so bad to be "white"!
The people I show are of the same stature as the ancestors, you dimwit. There is nothing special about how they look, it's a common look ALL OVER Egypt, just like the old days. And the limb portions and cranium studies show matching positions and continuity. So does the gene sequence, and all other historic accounts. One-one with sculptures-statues and hieroglyphs, culture etc... I already explained and have shown over and over again, to your mentally deranged one, that the environment is suited of those particular traits. I can't help it, you've never traveled a day in your life. Or can't comprehended any of the studies we post here. It's not my fault. Ironically you are just as stupid as the Anglo_Paranoid one.
What part is it you still don't understand after years...years of being debunked!?
Always trying to alter history to benefit your magnificent white advancements, like you have been doing for years now. And always failed in your repetitive white supremacy mission. SMH!
Bye dumb arse. Oh, your blog is BS by the way. Only uneducated Muktabas follow your rubbish.
Comparisons of linear body proportions of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom period individuals, and workers and high officials in our sample found no statistically significant differences among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also found little evidence for differences in linear body proportions of Egyptians over a wider temporal range.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Yes but Troll Patty, be honest, you seem to be avoiding, the modern people you have posted above next to the Egyptian art look only part African. Would you agree?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Yes but Troll Patty, be honest, you seem to be avoiding, the modern people you have posted above next to the Egyptian art look only part African. Would you agree?
Mr. Burp...fart... ****, no they don't look part African look! As the studies show! There is not something like the real African, as you with your multi alter egos accounts tend to think. People comprise by the region. And the region is suited for these traits, after living there for thousands upon thousands of years. You are truly pathetic, thinking Africans could not have accomplished any of this Egypt! That is the spinning point here, which you have a major problem with and always had. Hence, always showing pictures of non-Africans as the originators of ancient Egypt.
Why is it possible, for any other people outside of Africa to develop different traits, but not for the African in Africa?looool
You seem to be avoiding the studies we pump and dump in your dumb face all the time!
quote:"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas."
(Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)
quote:
Comparisons of linear body proportions of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom period individuals, and workers and high officials in our sample found no statistically significant differences among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also found little evidence for differences in linear body proportions of Egyptians over a wider temporal range.
So when was this magical time. Your cold adapted white ancestors had such a mass effect, one the population of Middle and South Egypt?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Troll Patrol, all your picture spams are of people who are heavily racially admixed. That's what thousands of years of Caucasoid-Negroid mixing has produced.
Posts: 1575 | From: - | Registered: May 2011
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posted
^ You mean your own European people who are one-third of African descent, particularly 'Mediterraneans'. LOL
As for the fake-egyptian85, I don't know why you guys bother arguing with this idiot. He dismisses all the scientific studies you guys cite and claims they are garbage even though they come from mainstream peer-reviewed sources. In the mean time he continues to spout long debunked nonsense based on nothing but his own stupid opinions! Why bother?
quote:Originally posted by egyptian85: The thick lips and big eyes not recorded on most statues..N....Stop listening to your african american teachers, they are big joke LOL
You mean these statues?!
LMAO Sorry but these statues were not fabricated by any 'African American teachers'.
Also Egypt is IN Africa, dummy! If you even are Egyptian you are nothing but an Afrangi descendant of invaders and NOT a true indigenous Egyptian descendant of the pharaonic people!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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[QUOTE]"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas."
(Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332) [/QUOTE
Djehuti, tell me honestly. these people don't look like half black half Levantine? Am I seeing things? The peoples are mixed I tell ya, look at em
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
TP my inbox is available..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Djehuti, tell me honestly. these people don't look like half black half Levantine? Am I seeing things? The peoples are mixed I tell ya, look at em
I'll tell you honestly. The people above do not look 'half' anything, but pure black Africans! Their complexion and features are NO different from east Africans farther south in 'Sub-Sahara', and it is not surprising since the Egyptians shown above are rural southern Egyptians which historically have received close to nil genetic influence whatsoever from Levantine invaders unlike urban northern Egyptians!
Yes you are seeing things.. things which aren't even there, you delusional twit!!
Speaking of Levantines. You do realize that Levantines are themselves mixed with black African ancestry from the mesolithic!
These are Levantine people.
Now YOU tell me, do these Levantine people above look half black to you??
Of course there are many Levantines who look no different from southern Europeans, but then again southern Europeans also have African admixture.
Let's not even go into the rural bedouin populations of the Levant, many of whom look straight up black.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
It's hard to tell whether the above have admixture or are entirely indigenous Africans.
Didn't Keita suggest that to imagine what the AEs looked like, take the typical Upper Egyptian/Nubian colour as 'modal' for the whole country, and then imagine what they would have looked like without 2000 years of gene flow into the Nile Valley from the Near East and Europe.
Posts: 838 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2011
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Djehuti stop playin. You cant be serious Are you on a new medication?
I'm not playing, I AM serious, and YOU obviously know NOTHING about native African diversity because you are an ignoramus! I myself while never having been to Africa am well acquainted with the African community here in Atlanta including the East African community. I have seen countless Ethiopians, Eritreans, and Somalis and know some personally, and many share the same complexions and features as the rural Egyptian men above! So unless you want to make the pathetic argument that sub-Saharan East Africans are also 'Levantine-mixed' then be my guest. Though the last time you made that claim you were thoroughly debunked as well!
So no I'm not on any new medication since I don't take medication to begin with, since I don't need any! YOU on the other hand, might need some from a psychiatrist.
By the way, I noticed you ignored my question as to whether the actual people in the Levant that I posted look half-black. Well do they??
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by claus3600: It's hard to tell whether the above have admixture or are entirely indigenous Africans.
Of course there's no way of telling simply by looks, but then again the same argument can be made about any people including Europeans! There are whites who look 'pure' with blonde hair and blue eyes, yet could still carry African admixture. At the same time southern Euros with not only dark features but full lips and slightly wide noses are never questioned about being pristine, yet white idiots like the lyinass would question the Egyptian men in those pictures about being pristine Africans. It is a hypocritical double-standard to say the least.
quote:Didn't Keita suggest that to imagine what the AEs looked like, take the typical Upper Egyptian/Nubian colour as 'modal' for the whole country, and then imagine what they would have looked like without 2000 years of gene flow into the Nile Valley from the Near East and Europe.
Yes, Keita and many others have pointed out that the best representatives of the ancients would be peoples of rural areas of the south, particularly areas least affected by immigration. Note while ancient artwork is subjective, they too provide some valid insights into the physical appearance of the ancient Kemetawy.
quote:Originally posted by Masonic Rebel: Let me add the the term "Arab" is sometimes used for populations under islamic control
No one who's sane supports Dirks opps i mean 85 position in fact it's laughable
Yes. There are many 'Arabs' in Africa who in America and in the West in general would be labeled as 'black'. That gives you a clue as to how loose or inclusive the term 'Arab' is. 'Arab' is a cultural term for anyone who claims Arab ancestry (regardless of how true that is). Case in point, the majority of Northern Sudanese are 'Arab', yet look at them.
Btw, I really hope 'egyptian85' is not Dirk, because if he is, then he seriously has psychological issues considering the countless times he has been debunked, refuted, and/or banned. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The modern day kids from southern Egypt share the same skin tone color as the paintings on the wall. Also this skin tone was the base model tone in which the ancients wanted to be represented.
18. Moreover also the answer given by the Oracle of Ammon bears witness in support of my opinion that Egypt is of the extent which I declare it to be in my account; and of this answer I heard after I had formed my own opinion about Egypt. For those of the city of Marea and of Apis, dwelling in the parts of Egypt which border on Libya, being of opinion themselves that they were Libyans and not Egyptians, and also being burdened by the rules of religious service, because they desired not to be debarred from the use of cows' flesh, sent to Ammon saying that they had nought in common with the Egyptians, for they dwelt outside the Delta and agreed with them in nothing; and they said they desired that it might be lawful for them to eat everything without distinction. The god however did not permit them to do so, but said that that land which was Egypt which the Nile came over and watered, and that those were Egyptians who dwelling below the city of Elephantine drank of that river (Herodotus Book II, 18).
Posts: 197 | From: 5th Dynasty Abusir Temple | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
^ That's right b|tch, but finish the rest of the sentence! Stop fragmenting my posts in your pathetic attempt to distort! Not only have I personally met and seen many Africans, I have books and more importantly a computer. Why even this forum with actual Africans has broaden my view. B|tch you've been on this forum for over a year now yet you still are talking the same ol' debunked b.s. when you first showed up in this forum posing as an 'African'! LMAO
Claus, indeed! Get on that lyinass! Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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TP a lil off topic but you can tell by this map of the tremendous area of some of the classic and medieval civilizations that existed in Africa a lot of times folks think or imagined we are speaking of a few villages with a central village that make up those civilizations,Axum at it's height could cover much of India.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Very good comparisons - I have to say this is probably the best yet.
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
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Djehuti, tell me honestly. these people don't look like half black half Levantine? Am I seeing things? The peoples are mixed I tell ya, look at em
I'll tell you honestly. The people above do not look 'half' anything, but pure black Africans! Their complexion and features are NO different from east Africans farther south in 'Sub-Sahara', and it is not surprising since the Egyptians shown above are rural southern Egyptians which historically have received close to nil genetic influence whatsoever from Levantine invaders unlike urban northern Egyptians!
Yes you are seeing things.. things which aren't even there, you delusional twit!!
Speaking of Levantines. You do realize that Levantines are themselves mixed with black African ancestry from the mesolithic!
These are Levantine people.
Now YOU tell me, do these Levantine people above look half black to you??
Of course there are many Levantines who look no different from southern Europeans, but then again southern Europeans also have African admixture.
Let's not even go into the rural bedouin populations of the Levant, many of whom look straight up black.
I am surprised you spend so much time rehashing this with lioness, especially since you have urged others not to respond to such topics. But now you can see why I say the truth about a more accurate, balanced bio-history of the African peoples and their diversity needs to be repeated again and again.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
^ You're right. I have regressed and sunk to the level of arguing with a lying idiot, when I myself have rallied against this.
There's no point. What I stated still stands while what the lyinass has stated is fell flat as always.
Yes, repeating the TRUTH about native African diversity and biological reality cannot be done enough.
By the way, whatever happened to 'egyptian85'?
Note that the Levant and Arabia are right next door to Africa and unsurprisingly the peoples of these regions have African admixture as well yet you don't hear a peep from the Euronuts like Lyinass saying these peoples are mixed or 'half-black' or 'part-black' any more than you hear them say anything about Euros, especially Mediterranean Euros having black admixture. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ You're right. I have regressed and sunk to the level of arguing with a lying idiot, when I myself have rallied against this.
There's no point. What I stated still stands while what the lyinass has stated is fell flat as always.
Yes, repeating the TRUTH about native African diversity and biological reality cannot be done enough.
By the way, whatever happened to 'egyptian85'?
Note that the Levant and Arabia are right next door to Africa and unsurprisingly the peoples of these regions have African admixture as well yet you don't hear a peep from the Euronuts like Lyinass saying these peoples are mixed or 'half-black' or 'part-black' any more than you hear them say anything about Euros, especially Mediterranean Euros having black admixture.
Djehuti's right some people in the Levant are half black, same thing with ancient Egypt, common sense would tell you this since these areas are next to each other
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Djehuti, listen to zarahan only post in serious threads like Anglo_Pyramidologist's 2012 sexiest women thread, lol
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Yeh, you caught that too. They bytch about boycotting some threads only to post in the very same type of threads and argue with the same type of people they constantly bytch about. Same with websites. They bytch about this website and go to other websites and argue with the same type of people they bytch about here. Unbelievable! Charlie Bass where are you?! LOL!
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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