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Originally posted by The Explorer:

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Originally posted by Tukuler:

This is one of the pieces I misread

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Okay, it's now starting to make sense how you drew the connection, granted that the source doesn't actually mention the White Crown itself.

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Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Tukuler:

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Originally posted by The Explorer:

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Originally posted by Tukuler:

This is one of the pieces I misread

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Okay, it's now starting to make sense how you drew the connection, granted that the source doesn't actually mention the White Crown itself.

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Jane Roy
The politics of trade: Egypt and lower Nubia in the 4th millennium BC
Leiden; Boston: Brill, 2011


The author explicitly states Qustul Pharaonic
iconography is later than the same in Egypt
and listed the icons
- palace facades,
- sacred barque,
- Horus falcon,
- robed human,
- White Crown,
for which he references Dreyer 1998 Umm el~Qaab.

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Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Tukuler:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

Diop points out that the standards born by Narmer's men on the Narmer Palette were all fetishes found in Qustul first.

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Originally posted by the lioness,:


Narmer Palette
...
Immediately in front of the pharaoh is a long-haired man, accompanied by a pair of hieroglyphs that have been interpreted as his name: Tshet (this assumes that these symbols had the same phonetic value used in later hieroglyphic writing). Before this man are four standard bearers, holding aloft an animal skin, a dog, and two falcons.

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Although Diop said nothing specifically about Qustul
the post of a section of Narmer's Palette allows us
see the insignia or totems Diop said were Nubian, in
particular "the Jackal and that of the Sparrow-hawk."

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You're right. I did not mean to distort Diop's words if that's how it came across. I am well aware Diop never said Qustul but rather Nubia. I only inferred Qustul because that was the archaeological finding in regards to pre-Kerma Nubian civilization that was known during the time of Diop's research. The Qustul Culture a.k.a. 'A Group' was discovered in 1964 by Dr. Keith Steele. Bruce Williams findings on A Group pharaonic iconography and the Qustul Incence Burner only came to light several years after Diop's African Origin of Civilization was published.

Just a few corrections to Lioness's citation whose source she doesn't mention.

First off, the person in front of Narmer (as Mena correctly pointed out) is a woman or in the very least a cross-dressed man since the hairstyle, dress, and posture is that of a woman! Even the name 'Tshet' is feminine. I see no reason why it shouldn't be a woman especially since there is a widespread tradition in many African cultures for a royal woman to walk in front of the king and behind the banner-men during a royal procession.

Second, the labeling of the standards are a little off. The first standard is NOT an animal skin but a placenta with umbilical cord which is a fetish or totem used by many Africans including some Egyptian nomes. The second is a jackal astride an object (some say a stomach), and the other two are birds perhaps hawks perched on flags.

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Originally posted by the lioness,:



The heqa sceptre (or shepherd's crook) was closely associated with the king and was even used to write the word "ruler" and "rule" in hieroglyphics. It was essentially a long stick with a hooked handle ...
...
Another early example (this time complete) made from ivory was found in the largest predynastic tomb in the Abydos cemetery (U-j).

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Even were it properly credited this notice on the
heqa would still fall short of a Pharaonic emblem
as it's shared even with the chief (sheikh) of a
small group of itinerant traders who is denoted by
a heqa, i.e., Heqa.khast AbiSha and crew on a tomb
wall at Beni Hassan. So I wouldn't add the heqa to
the Dreyer U-j list I would like to see compiled for
comparison against a Williams L-24 list since Dreyer
is used by academia to refute Williams.

= = = = =

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A sidebar about the Narmer Palette:

Considering the Red Crown's Upper Egyptian origin
is Narmer establishing the Red Crown onto Lower
Egypt, in effect transferring it to northern
symbolism and divorcing it from the south?

Are there artifacts showing the Red Crown as
Lower Egyptian before Narmer? I don't know.

Does terminal TaSeti continue to use the White
Crown during and after Egypt's 1st Dynasty?

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Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

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Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by The Explorer:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
.......

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What is the point you are trying to make by posting this? You cite stuff (generally without mention of author or source), but you rarely actually tell readers, in your own words, why you are posting them.

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Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged |