quote:Babalini et al. (2002) reported that they had extracted mitochondrial and nuclear DNA from ten individuals excavated at four Late Pastoral phase sites (ca. 5000-3500 BP) in the Wadi Tanezzuft (Fezzan, Libya). A multidimensional scaling analysis placed the rather uniform HVS-I sequences from the three older sites close to each other and, as a group, in between the Eurasian and the sub- Saharan cluster of comparative samples. The decidedly more variable individuals from the fourth and youngest site were still close to those from the other three Wadi Tanezzuft samples but already inside the Eurasian cluster. The publication also confirmed five successful molecular sex diagnoses, all but one of which in accordance with the results of the morphological sex estimations. A later attempt to subject another 18 individuals from the Fezzan to aDNA analyses failed. Neither the 14 Late Acacus to Late Pastoral period (ca. 8900-3500 BP) nor the four Garamantian (ca. 2700-1800 BP) skeletons yielded any reproducible results (Ottoni 2007: 51, 69-72, 107-112).
From the paper Beyoku cited some time ago:
Becker, Erik 2011. The prehistoric inhabitants of the Wadi Howar : an anthropological study of human skeletal remains from the Sudanese part of the Eastern Sahara
The actual results were published in: Sand, Stones, and Bones: The Archaeology of Death in the Wadi Tanezzuft Valley (5000-2000 BP), ed. SAVINO DI LERNIA & GIORGIO MANZI
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quote:Preliminary results obtained from ancient DNA studies are presented in Chapter 13, by Carla Babalini and co-workers. Mitochondrial DNA extraction was attempted upon a sub-sample of human teeth from ten individuals. The mtDNA locus was selected due to its maternal inheritance pattern, high copy number, simple structure and relatively fast rate of mutational change. Analysis was undertaken upon the two hypervariable regions and region V. The authors report that the mtDNA from the individuals from site 96/129 was reasonably distinct from that obtained from the other sampled material. Only one individual was fully characterised, and was found to be a member of an African haplotype (L3).
Zakrzewski, Review Submitted: March 2004
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quote:The biological affinities of the material had already been analysed by traditional and geometric morphometric means as well (Bruner et al. 2002; Ricci et al. 2002). The performed genetic analyses were not able to provide any new insights in this respect either. The sub-samples could merely be characterised as more or less biologically sub- Saharan or North African (Babalini et al. 2002: 277-280). An inspection of the photographs of the material in Di Lernia/Manzi (2002) leaves little doubt that a biological ancestry estimation of this type of resolution could have been achieved on the basis of a quick morphognostic evaluation of the better preserved cranial remains alone.
Becker, Erik 2011. The prehistoric inhabitants of the Wadi Howar : an anthropological study of human skeletal remains from the Sudanese part of the Eastern SaharaPosts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Zakrezewski says of the genetically ''reasonably distinct'' site that yielded mtDNA L3:
quote:The fifth chapter consists of descriptions of the excavations undertaken. Some clear accounts are given of the tumulus excavations, such as the sequence of burials in tumuli 1 & 2 at site 96/129 near Tahalla. The burials consist of a vast range of biologically aged individuals, from neonates, through children and juveniles, to mature adults. These skeletons are found in association with grave goods, including beads (stone, ostrich egg-shell and faience), carinated scrapers and bifacial arrowheads etc. Detail is provided as to the phasing of the construction of the tumuli through analysis of the changing tumuli complex shapes. The authors suggest, with little evidence provided, that this is associated with a change from kinship linkage to the assertion of social ranking in groups. There is much interpretation of the archaeological evidence, and potentially some over-interpretation of the data, such as hypothesising over potential sacrifice of the female in Tumulus 3bis (H1) and its presumed association with the male in Tumulus 3 (H2) at site 96/129, or of the potential mother and child in Tumulus 10 (H2 and H4 respectively) again at site 96/129. When site 96/129 was selected for excavation it was believed to represent a single middle to large cemetery of Late Pastoral phase. Excavation indicated that it dated to the start of the 4th millennium BP and ended around 2500 BP (and thus overlapped with the start of the Garamantian phase). In the following chapter however, describing the textiles and leather, the same site is simply described as a Late Pastoral cemetery, radiocarbon dated to 3800-2700 BP.
posted
Much better posting. Will follow up.
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posted
Very interesting. I still question what the basis is of their distinction between 'Sub-Saharan' and 'North' African. From what I've read only one body is conclusively to carry L3, though I wonder what patterns the other ones display.
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Very interesting. I still question what the basis is of their distinction between 'Sub-Saharan' and 'North' African. From what I've read only one body is conclusively to carry L3, though I wonder what patterns the other ones display.
Which means nothing because what they are really saying is that they were only able to successfully sequence ONE specimen. Therefore the other results are questionable because of errors in sequencing. Makes sense for such old bones. But what does NOT make sense is the attempt to imply that because only ONE body was successfully sequenced, that somehow it was an OUTLIER from the rest. That is pure speculative B.S. and indicative of the ABSURD lengths some people will go in order to promote this fake paradigm of ancient "non black/non African" north Africans in the Sahara as the carriers of culture which is TOTAL BULL SH&T. For all we know all the specimens were primarily L3 which would not be shocking at all as they are all in the Sudanese Sahara. What the hell else would you expect?
And what the hell is Eurasian? There were no "Eurasians" in the dam Wadi Howar 10,000 years ago, no matter HOW you try and spin it: DNA, MTNA, YDNA or any other DNA.
Wadi Howar:
quote: Wadi Howar (Wadi Howa) is a wadi in Sudan and Chad. It travels approximately 400 kilometres in a northeasterly direction from the Ouaddaï highlands in Chad across the North Darfur state of Sudan, before losing itself in the Libyan Desert. Towards its western end it forms a part of the international boundary between Sudan and Chad, separating the West Darfur state of Sudan and the Borkou-Ennedi-Tibesti Region of Chad.
Some of the people in this area are said to be part of the Kababish tribe, which is said to be mixed with Arab. Obviously that is a relatively recent event, but nevertheless, I know for a fact that Africans have been going back and forth between Arabia and Sudan since many, many thousands of years ago. That does not make them "Eurasians" in any sense of the word. And those populations who did migrate back and forth were still BLACK on both sides of the Red Sea.
As for the Fezzan and the bones there, keep in mind the images on the Acacus mountains in the Region. All black African. This is the area inhabited by the Acacus Tuareg who are again black African. Not to mention the rock art that is there.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Very interesting. I still question what the basis is of their distinction between 'Sub-Saharan' and 'North' African.
It's easy to distinguish modern coastal North African with "Sub-Sahara" Africans even if many actually live in the south of North African countries (thus above the Sahara, thus a bit of a misnomer). Let's not go crazy.
If one aDNA is from the African haplotype (L3). It's all good imo. Sure it could be an outlier but it's much more plausible that he wasn't. What we have is one individual of African haplotype L3. All good.
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Tukuler
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Good stuff. I have Ottoni but didn't know about Babalini. How complete are Babalini's sequences and how do they match up to van Oven's phylogeny?
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Good stuff. I have Ottoni but didn't know about Babalini. How complete are Babalini's sequences and how do they match up to van Oven's phylogeny?
^I have no idea. This is everything I know, bro. I haven't even been able to find out which one of the five sites 96/129 is. If 96/129 belongs to the three oldest sites, an intermediate position of the HVS I sequences could simply point to mtDNA L3, because that's exactly what L3 phylogenetically is--intermediate. Though, admittedly, that may be stretching it.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
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Yeah, been scouring the 'net for Babalini2002. Looks like my next interlibrary loan assignment. Only found alHaique's chapter (teaser) at Academia.edu. Judging from her Croatia paper I see Babalin's thorough. Ain't no telling what a 2002 L3 would be today.
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quote:Babalini et al. (2002) reported that they had extracted mitochondrial and nuclear DNA from ten individuals excavated at four Late Pastoral phase sites (ca. 5000-3500 BP) in the Wadi Tanezzuft (Fezzan, Libya). A multidimensional scaling analysis placed the rather uniform HVS-I sequences from the three older sites close to each other and, as a group, in between the Eurasian and the sub- Saharan cluster of comparative samples. The decidedly more variable individuals from the fourth and youngest site were still close to those from the other three Wadi Tanezzuft samples but already inside the Eurasian cluster. The publication also confirmed five successful molecular sex diagnoses, all but one of which in accordance with the results of the morphological sex estimations. A later attempt to subject another 18 individuals from the Fezzan to aDNA analyses failed. Neither the 14 Late Acacus to Late Pastoral period (ca. 8900-3500 BP) nor the four Garamantian (ca. 2700-1800 BP) skeletons yielded any reproducible results (Ottoni 2007: 51, 69-72, 107-112).
From the paper Beyoku cited some time ago:
Becker, Erik 2011. The prehistoric inhabitants of the Wadi Howar : an anthropological study of human skeletal remains from the Sudanese part of the Eastern Sahara
The actual results were published in: Sand, Stones, and Bones: The Archaeology of Death in the Wadi Tanezzuft Valley (5000-2000 BP), ed. SAVINO DI LERNIA & GIORGIO MANZI
Babalini et al. (2002) reported that they had extracted mitochondrial and nuclear DNA from ten individuals excavated at four Late Pastoral phase sites (ca. 5000-3500 BP) in the Wadi Tanezzuft (Fezzan, Libya).
Was it even possible to do such tests during that time?
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