quote:We report the discovery of an African American Y chromosome that carries the ancestral state of all SNPs that defined the basal portion of the Y chromosome phylogenetic tree. We sequenced ∼240 kb of this chromosome to identify private, derived mutations on this lineage, which we named A00. We then estimated the time to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) for the Y tree as 338 thousand years ago (kya) (95% confidence interval = 237–581 kya). Remarkably, this exceeds current estimates of the mtDNA TMRCA, as well as those of the age of the oldest anatomically modern human fossils. The extremely ancient age combined with the rarity of the A00 lineage, which we also find at very low frequency in central Africa, point to the importance of considering more complex models for the origin of Y chromosome diversity. These models include ancient population structure and the possibility of archaic introgression of Y chromosomes into anatomically modern humans. The A00 lineage was discovered in a large database of consumer samples of African Americans and has not been identified in traditional hunter-gatherer populations from sub-Saharan Africa. This underscores how the stochastic nature of the genealogical process can affect inference from a single locus and warrants caution during the interpretation of the geographic location of divergent branches of the Y chromosome phylogenetic tree for the elucidation of human origins.
~Michael F. Hammer, Fernando L. Mendez et al. An African American Paternal Lineage Adds an Extremely Ancient Root to the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree The American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 92, Issue 3, 454-459, 28 February 2013 DOI:https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.02.002
posted
Need to read it. But lately I having doubts that the San carry the oldest lineage I am speculating it may be found in Sudan/Sahara great lakes area.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
This show again that the lack of genetic works in Africa is very limiting considering the size and genetic diversity of Africa.
The A00 haplogroup was found by "luck" by a DNA commercial company who had the advantage of receiving a lot more samples than the haplogroup study we usually get in population structure study (between 2-60 people per ethnic group seems to happens a lot, which is a very small number).
Clearly those past samples weren't as representative of those groups since the A00 was totally missed by previous peer-reviewed study (although one graduate student had a dissertation with more people).
The A00 has been found among Mbo and Bangwa (related to Bamileke and Bamum) Bantu speaking people. Unofficial work has found A00 among other population in Cameroon. Now they finally decide to take more samples.
Personally, I always question the true representative of most genetic study when a group of 50 people are supposed to represent an ethnic group of million of people. I don't know the statistic model justification behind it, but I can't imagine they would do survey poll for electoral choices based on 50 people to represent a couple of million of people. Maybe a thousand (sample size) would be used at least and it would need past results to show that it is representative.
Let's recall that Nabta Playa, the oldest pottery in Africa in Mali, as well as the oldest boat (in Nigeria) were all discovered by luck too. There's also a dearth of archeological works undertaken in Africa.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
It also means the most basal clade of Mitochondrial DNA[HAPLOGROUP] is still to be discovered, the San definitely do not have the most ancient genotype of our species.
Posts: 121 | From: Guyana | Registered: Mar 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Can you cross post to Reloaded Patrol?
It's done.^
In addition,
quote: Figure 1. Genealogy of A00, A0, and the Reference SequenceLineages on which mutations were identified and lineages that were used for placing those mutations on the genealogy are indicated with thick and thin lines, respectively. The numbers of identified mutations on a branch are indicated in italics (four mutations in A00 were not genotyped but are indicated as shared by Mbo in this tree). The time estimates (and confidence intervals) are indicated kya for three nodes: the most recent common ancestor, the common ancestor between A0 and the reference (ref), and the common ancestor of A00 chromosomes from an African American individual and the Mbo. Two sets of ages are shown: on the left are estimates (numbers in black) obtained with the mutation rate based on recent whole-genome-sequencing results as described in the main text, and on the right are estimates (numbers in gray) based on the higher mutation rate used by Cruciani et al.6
quote:We also estimated the level of variation among nine A00 lineages (i.e., including one additional Mbo individual) by using a battery of 95 Y-STRs for which all individuals had no missing data; (Table S2). A median-joining network28 shows that the African American A00 lineage is 11 mutational steps from the nearest Mbo and that the maximum difference between any pair of Mbo is nine steps (Figure 3 and Table S2). On the basis of these levels of within- and between-group variation, we calculated a second divergence time estimate of 564–2,697 years (Table 1) by assuming a mean Y-STR mutation rate of 1.32 × 10−4 and 2.76 × 10−5 per year, respectively.29 and 30
quote: Figure 3. Median-Joining Network of A00 HaplotypesThe network is based on haplotypes (constructed with 95 Y-STRs) of eight Mbo and an African American (AA) individual. All mutations are assumed to be single step and were given equal weight during the construction of the network. Marker names are indicated without “DYS” at the beginning.
code:
Table 1. Pairwise and Average STR-Based Estimates of TMRCA for A00 Chromosomes
We obtained point estimates of the TMRCA of two haplotypes by dividing the estimate of the number of mutational steps separating the haplotypes (as inferred from the network) by twice the mutational rate per STR and by the number of STRs scored in both haplotypes. Values above and below the diagonal separation correspond to estimates obtained with the high and low mutation rates, respectively (see text). The following abbreviation is used: TMRCA, time to the most recent common ancestor.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ponsford: It also means the most basal clade of Mitochondrial DNA[HAPLOGROUP] is still to be discovered, the San definitely do not have the most ancient genotype of our species.
Or maybe they do and it wasn't discovered yet because not enough of their people were sampled.
In fact, I'm not sure what you mean by it still to be discovered. If I'm not mistaken, the most basal is the one we found, if you know what I mean. For example, it's possible that some ancient female ancestors didn't leave any descendant on the direct female line. Like maybe one of the female partner of Y-DNA Adam didn't leave any female descendant in modern time. It's possible for any MtDNA (or Y-DNA for that matter) ancestor.
Obviously, it's also possible we didn't sampled enough people and there's still some other A00 type of basal haplogroups discovery to be made.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
Y-DNA A00 and the Peoples of Cameroon: In Search of the Homeland
quote: What are the goals of this project? Our research forms a part of the wider, global human project to understand the family tree that connects us all, both on a large scale and in detail. In 2012, we found a branch on the human Y-chromosome phylogenetic tree, haplogroup A00, that's far older than any other branch previously known, having its origins at the dawn of the human species' emergence. The only peoples on earth it's known to exist among are a few African-Americans, and Cameroonians of certain ethnic groups.
This research will begin to give us a picture of its true distribution and history. By collecting samples from a diverse range of ethnic groups in Cameroon, starting with those where A00 is known to occur, we hope to map it, and by analyzing the patterns of relationship between different A00 lineages, and the complex histories of these peoples, with their widely varying social structures and ecological adaptations, we hope to understand much more about A00's place in human history.
quote: Why is this research important? The human family tree is being revolutionized by the massive data becoming available through next-generation DNA sequencing. We're gaining a tremendous amount of detail about the multitudes of small, recent branches...but we can also delve deeper into our earliest history as a species.
Historian Matthew Fomine Forka Leypey, of the Mbo ethnic group, gathered the African samples we studied in our ground-breaking paper published in the AJHG in March 2013. Data from his other previously collected but now-inaccessible samples show that A00 can be found among a variety of peoples of Cameroon, which is a world biodiversity hotspot. By collecting fresh samples among peoples of Mbo, Bangwa, Bamileke, Banyang, and Baka, Gyele and Bedzan ethnicities, performing more advanced sequencing of them than was previously possible, and combining the results with local, historical and ethnographic knowledge of these peoples, we hope to gain a much clearer picture of who our A00 brothers really are, and glimpse some of their long journey.
May I remind people that Cameroon is where Hg R within Africa was found in the highest frequency. Who knows what's next...?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Can you cross post to Reloaded Patrol?
It's done.^
In addition,
quote: Figure 1. Genealogy of A00, A0, and the Reference SequenceLineages on which mutations were identified and lineages that were used for placing those mutations on the genealogy are indicated with thick and thin lines, respectively. The numbers of identified mutations on a branch are indicated in italics (four mutations in A00 were not genotyped but are indicated as shared by Mbo in this tree). The time estimates (and confidence intervals) are indicated kya for three nodes: the most recent common ancestor, the common ancestor between A0 and the reference (ref), and the common ancestor of A00 chromosomes from an African American individual and the Mbo. Two sets of ages are shown: on the left are estimates (numbers in black) obtained with the mutation rate based on recent whole-genome-sequencing results as described in the main text, and on the right are estimates (numbers in gray) based on the higher mutation rate used by Cruciani et al.6
quote:We also estimated the level of variation among nine A00 lineages (i.e., including one additional Mbo individual) by using a battery of 95 Y-STRs for which all individuals had no missing data; (Table S2). A median-joining network28 shows that the African American A00 lineage is 11 mutational steps from the nearest Mbo and that the maximum difference between any pair of Mbo is nine steps (Figure 3 and Table S2). On the basis of these levels of within- and between-group variation, we calculated a second divergence time estimate of 564–2,697 years (Table 1) by assuming a mean Y-STR mutation rate of 1.32 × 10−4 and 2.76 × 10−5 per year, respectively.29 and 30
quote: Figure 3. Median-Joining Network of A00 HaplotypesThe network is based on haplotypes (constructed with 95 Y-STRs) of eight Mbo and an African American (AA) individual. All mutations are assumed to be single step and were given equal weight during the construction of the network. Marker names are indicated without “DYS” at the beginning.
code:
Table 1. Pairwise and Average STR-Based Estimates of TMRCA for A00 Chromosomes
We obtained point estimates of the TMRCA of two haplotypes by dividing the estimate of the number of mutational steps separating the haplotypes (as inferred from the network) by twice the mutational rate per STR and by the number of STRs scored in both haplotypes. Values above and below the diagonal separation correspond to estimates obtained with the high and low mutation rates, respectively (see text). The following abbreviation is used: TMRCA, time to the most recent common ancestor.
Thanks- appreciate it. Just thinking we need to start building up Reloaded. ES may be on its way out. If nothing else the cross-post will ensure data is more widely available or accessible on the web. The other forums I notice are already read only. Might just be a matter of time before Egyptology and Ancient Egypt disappear.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Don't understand the correlation? hg-R is way upstream on the Tree.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: Update:
May I remind people that Cameroon is where Hg R within Africa was found in the highest frequency. Who knows what's next...?
Yes it's way upstream. And I am not suggesting it is directly related. But more so about the revelation of this SNP.
But I wonder where the African males stopped their mutations, and if so, why?
code:
SNP Location Haplogroup Mutations M5 M C > T M9 K, KR C > G M11 L A > G M45 P, PR G > A M69 H T > C M89 F, FR C > T M96 E G > C M122 O3 T > C M168 CR C > T M170 I A > C M174 D T > C M175 O T > A M20 G G > T M207 R A > G M214 NO T > C M304 J A > C M343 R1b C > A P36 Q G > T SRY10831.1 BR A > G
quote:Y-DNA haplogroup A contains lineages deriving from the earliest branching in the human Y chromosome tree. The oldest branching event, separating A0-P305 and A1-V161, is thought to have occurred about 140,000 years ago. Haplogroups A0-P305, A1a-M31 and A1b1a-M14 are restricted to Africa and A1b1b-M32 is nearly restricted to Africa. The haplogroup that would be named A1b2 is composed of haplogroups B through T. The internal branching of haplogroup A1-V161 into A1a-M31, A1b1, and BT (A1b2) may have occurred about 110,000 years ago. A0-P305 is found at low frequency in Central and West Africa. A1a-M31 is observed in northwestern Africans; A1b1a-M14 is seen among click language-speaking Khoisan populations. A1b1b-M32 has a wide distribution including Khoisan speaking and East African populations, and scattered members on the Arabian Peninsula.
Haplogroup CT (M168): Time of Emergence: 70,000 BP, 2800 generations ago beginning of the Last Glacial Period Place of Origin: The African Rift Valleymore by Gábor Balogh
posted
R1b-V88 One isolated clade (or clades) of Y-chromosomes that appear to belong to the R-P25 sublineage is found at high frequency among the native populations of northern Cameroon, such as the Kirdi, in west-central Africa, which is believed to reflect a prehistoric back-migration of an ancient proto-Eurasian population into Africa
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: But I wonder where the African males stopped their mutations, and if so, why?
I hope I misunderstood you. If I did I'm sorry but the rest of the explanation is important to understand anyway for anybody.
Nobody (no people or subgroup of people) stopped their mutations (stopped mutating)!! That's crazy. Every humans are born with between 60-100 mutations (that is SNP not transmitted from their parents). Yes, that means you too!! For one mutation to become widespread enough to become an haplogroup is something else entirely. In fact, nowadays it becomes very hard to be the "founder" of a new haplogroup due to the large human population size even if you and your descendants have many children. (your "family" descendants will always form less than 1% of the total population)
(in fact an SNP is not considered an official SNP when it's below i think 1% of the population)
If you look at the wiki page of E-P2, E-M2 or E-M215, or any good study, you will see a list of "Defining mutations" even if we prefer to stick to one mutation name so we can understand each other like M2, M215, P2, etc any of the other defining mutation would be an ok name too. If geneticist analyzed the whole genome instead of only part of it in every studies, they would likely find between 60 to 100 of such "Defining mutations". [EDIT: it's an error, the number of "Defining mutations" will always be less than 60-100 even if we study the whole genome because haplogroups are only about the Y and MtDNA chromosomes, not the whole genome, but the whole genome do have between 60-100 mutations in every human born]
In your graph [the first one], as they often do, they show the A haplogroup as some form of straight line. So in low resolution. As if, there wasn't any other haplogroup after the initial A mutation. But we know on this site this isn't true (for example A-M13). It's only the choice of the person who made that graph to not show us high resolution of the A haplogroup but higher level of resolution for the other haplogroups.
It's very important for people to understand that while people like Aka and Mbuti (known as pygmy) diverged from the other humans in the earliest time. The modern Aka and modern Mbuti people may be physically and ***are*** definitely genetically different than this early time of separation.
Each generation of Aka and Mbuti people have the same number of mutations than any other population on earth.
Obviously, I take the most extreme example with the Aka and Mbuti, but this is true for any populations or sub-populations.
The nucleotide and haplogroup diversity of each populations are related to other issue than the number of mutations. They are related to bottleneck effect when a small group of human get separated from the other group of human (of bigger size). So starting with only a sub-group of the global diversity of the other bigger group.
It's very important for people to understand the basic of haplogroup and mutations.
So again, haplogroups are just mutations which have become demographically widespread. And again, the graph, you posted, show low resolution of the A haplogroup and higher resolution of other haplogroup for, lets say, no obvious reason (the study or the graph maker didn't want to focus on the A haplogroup).
(There's also the issue of population size, and expansion-migration (aka separation), and higher number of research, leading to more substructures, as well as more bottleneck effect (decrease diversity), among non-A descendants, but I already said enough for one post.)
This tree for example, show a higher level of resolution for the A and B haplogroup.
So no populations, no sub-populations ever stopped mutating! Every humans are born with about 60-100 mutations according to the latest research.
Edit:The second graph, you added after I wrote my post, also show a higher level of resolution for the A haplogroup than the first graph.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ this thread is about the trying to comprehend the newly found snip.
Obviously recollection needs to be done. As we now have a new unexpected snip A00, I am sure more defined snips will be found, which will give better understanding.
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
But I wonder where the African males stopped their mutations, and if so, why?
I hope I misunderstood you. If I did I'm sorry but the rest of the explanation is important to understand anyway for anybody.
quote: The BT haplogroup split from the root of the Y haplogroup tree 55,000 years before present (bp), probably in North East Africa. The CF(xDE) haplogroup was the common ancestor of all people who migrated outside of Africa until recent times. The defining mutation occurred 31-55,000 years bp in North East Africa and is still most common in Africa today in Ethiopia and Sudan. The DE haplogroup appeared approximately 50,000 years bp in North East Africa and subsequently split into haplogroup E that spread to Europe and Africa and haplogroup D that rapidly spread along the coastline of India and Asia to North Asia.
posted
An African American Paternal Lineage Adds an Extremely Ancient Root to the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: It proves that most Black Americans are not Africans (at least not recently from Africa). Places of origin, were Australia, the Pacific, (I personally believe that the Olmec were Shang driven from China), and the last being from Europe.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^ this thread is about the trying to comprehend the newly found snip.
Obviously recollection needs to be done. As we now have a new unexpected snip A00, I am sure more defined snips will be found, which will give better understanding.
But what did you mean by saying: I wonder where the African males stopped their mutations? This sentence doesn't make sense from a genetic point of view unless I'm misunderstanding you.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^ this thread is about the trying to comprehend the newly found snip.
Obviously recollection needs to be done. As we now have a new unexpected snip A00, I am sure more defined snips will be found, which will give better understanding.
But what did you mean by saying: I wonder where the African males stopped their mutations? This sentence doesn't make sense from a genetic point of view unless I'm misunderstanding you.
I sad so, because this is what some suggest. This is for example why the lioness quickly posted that source.
But if we concurrent other sources we see a somewhat different pattern.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^ this thread is about the trying to comprehend the newly found snip.
Obviously recollection needs to be done. As we now have a new unexpected snip A00, I am sure more defined snips will be found, which will give better understanding.
But what did you mean by saying: I wonder where the African males stopped their mutations? This sentence doesn't make sense from a genetic point of view unless I'm misunderstanding you.
I sad so, because this is what some suggest. This is for example why the lioness quickly posted that source.
But if we concurrent other sources we see a somewhat different pattern.
I don't understand. Saying I wonder where the African males stopped their mutations?. Doesn't make sense whatsoever from a genetic point of view. It's not a matter of suggestion, opinion or sources. It's basic genetic knowledge. Genetic 101. Every humans are born with about 60-100 mutations (not transmitted to them by their parents).
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^ this thread is about the trying to comprehend the newly found snip.
Obviously recollection needs to be done. As we now have a new unexpected snip A00, I am sure more defined snips will be found, which will give better understanding.
But what did you mean by saying: I wonder where the African males stopped their mutations? This sentence doesn't make sense from a genetic point of view unless I'm misunderstanding you.
I sad so, because this is what some suggest. This is for example why the lioness quickly posted that source.
But if we concurrent other sources we see a somewhat different pattern.
I don't understand. Saying I wonder where the African males stopped their mutations?. Doesn't make sense whatsoever from a genetic point of view. It's not a matter of opinion or sources. It's basic genetic knowledge. Genetic 101. Every humans are born with about 60-100 mutations (not transmitted to them by their parents).
I understand very well what you're saying.
2011
A Revised Root for the Human Y Chromosomal Phylogenetic Tree: The Origin of Patrilineal Diversity in Africa Fulvio Cruciani et al
quote: The deepest branching separates A1b from a monophyletic clade whose members (A1a, A2, A3, B, C, and R) all share seven mutually reinforcing derived mutations (five transitions and two transversions, all at non-CpG sites). To retain the information from the reference MSY tree13 as much as possible, we named this clade A1a-T (Figure 1). Within A1a-T, the transversion V221 separates A1a from a monophyletic clade (called A2-T) consisting of three branches: A2, A3, and BT, the latter being supported by ten mutations (Figure 1).
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^I don't know why you [throll patrol] posted that research in response to my post.
I posted it, in reference as additional info. Just like all the other sources.
I can't imaging you actually read them all in such a sort time frame.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^I don't know why you [throll patrol] posted that research in response to my post.
Typically you think you are in a converstaion with Troll Patrol and then after a while you realize he only half understands wht you've been saying and he posts a lot of quotes and charts that are only half related to what the issue is
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: African people in Africa are mutating right now, nothing stopped
Every born human, every human populations are mutating right now. Even you and me are born with about 60 to 100 mutations according to the latest research. So even unadmixed Aka and Mbuti people have a lot of mutations since the time they separated from the rest of the human groups. Same thing for any A00 descendants even if there wasn't any more "recent" admixture (like if they were completely isolated) with other groups of humans (even if we know there was indeed much admixture).
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^I don't know why you [throll patrol] posted that research in response to my post.
I posted it, in reference as additional info. Just like all the other sources.
I can't imaging you actually read them all in such a sort time frame.
I already know about that research, so I don't need to read it again. Anyway, as I said, it's not a matter of research or opinions but basic genetic knowledge.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^I don't know why you [throll patrol] posted that research in response to my post.
Typically you think you are in a converstaion with Troll Patrol and then after a while you realize he only half understands wht you've been saying and he posts a lot of quotes and charts that are only half related to what the issue is
I think you understand half of what I have been posting.
The main problem is you don't read what what I've quoted.
However, what you've quoted shows a different pattern with what I've cited.
After all, I did not type to ARTU? I responded to xyyzMan in the first place. ARTU jumped in somewhere in the middle. Go figure.
In general it's being stated that mutations occur very somewhat six thousand years.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^I don't know why you [throll patrol] posted that research in response to my post.
I posted it, in reference as additional info. Just like all the other sources.
I can't imaging you actually read them all in such a sort time frame.
I already know about that research, so I don't need to read it again. Anyway, as I said, it's not a matter of research or opinions but basic genetic knowledge.
Goode for you.
So, therefore I posted what I posted.
Now, what does that tell you, what do those sources tell you?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
The main problem is you don't read what what I've quoted.
I make a threads and you literally post about 12-20 long copy and paste posts one after the other and expect people to read them all. Then if somebody reads them all you post the same posts many times all over agin in other threads. One can't deal with 10 differnt artilces at once in the same thread. Each one is a thread topic in itself.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
After all, I did not type to ARTU? I responded to xyyzMan in the first place. ARTU jumped in somewhere in the middle. Go figure.
Please, there are so many coversations I'm in and you jump in, third party
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^I don't know why you [throll patrol] posted that research in response to my post.
I posted it, in reference as additional info. Just like all the other sources.
I can't imaging you actually read them all in such a sort time frame.
I already know about that research, so I don't need to read it again. Anyway, as I said, it's not a matter of research or opinions but basic genetic knowledge.
Goode for you.
So, therefore I posted what I posted.
Now, what does that tell you, what do those sources tell you?
I don't know. You tell me. You're the one who posted it. I'm just joking, since we agree, there's no point in discussing the issue much further.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: ^^^I don't know why you [throll patrol] posted that research in response to my post.
I posted it, in reference as additional info. Just like all the other sources.
I can't imaging you actually read them all in such a sort time frame.
I already know about that research, so I don't need to read it again. Anyway, as I said, it's not a matter of research or opinions but basic genetic knowledge.
Goode for you.
So, therefore I posted what I posted.
Now, what does that tell you, what do those sources tell you?
I don't know. You tell me. You're the one who posted it. I'm just joking, since we agree, there's no point in discussing the issue much further.
Yes, sometimes you have to pinch and bring things with sarcasm.
And I hope xyyMan's question has been answered too.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: In general it's being stated that mutations occur very somewhat six thousand years.
Ah fukk, I thought we were over that.
Not six thousand years, where did you get that? I'm not seeking to grill you, just curious. Every humans are born with about 60 to 100 mutations (usually neutral mutations of course).
The main problem is you don't read what what I've quoted.
I make a threads and you literally post about 12-20 long copy and paste posts one after the other and expect people to read them all. Then if somebody reads them all you post the same posts many times all over agin in other threads. One can't deal with 10 differnt artilces at once in the same thread. Each one is a thread topic in itself.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
After all, I did not type to ARTU? I responded to xyyzMan in the first place. ARTU jumped in somewhere in the middle. Go figure.
Please, there are so many coverstaions I'm in and you jump in, third party
What I was trying to explain to you is, he should have read the sources. But he already did, as we are in agreement now.
So where does that leave you?
Do you actually understand any of the sources on the Y-chromosomes phylotrees which I have posted?
Start reading them, instead of doing all this baseless ranting.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
I already posted it, but it's important to understand that. Obviously 60, 100, 30 or 200, has no importance, but the fact that we are all born with mutations does.
We're all mutants, say scientists
Each of us has at least 100 new mutations in our DNA, according to research published in the journal Current Biology.
Scientists have been trying to get an accurate estimate of the mutation rate for over 70 years.
However, only now has it been possible to get a reliable estimate, thanks to "next generation" technology for genetic sequencing.
The findings may lead to new treatments and insights into our evolution.
In 1935, one of the founders of modern genetics, JBS Haldane, studied a group of men with the blood disease haemophilia. He speculated that there would be about 150 new mutations in each of us.
Others have since looked at DNA in chimpanzees to try to produce general estimates for humans.
However, next generation sequencing technology has enabled the scientists to produce a far more direct and reliable estimate.
They looked at thousands of letters of the genetic code within the Y chromosomes of two Chinese men. They knew the men were distantly related, having shared a common ancestor who was born in 1805.
By looking at the number of differences between the two men, and the size of the human genome, they were able to come up with an estimate of between 100 and 200 new mutations per person.
Impressively, it seems that Haldane was right all along.
Unimaginable
One of the scientists, Dr Yali Xue from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Cambridgeshire, said: "The amount of data we generated would have been unimaginable just a few years ago.
"And finding this tiny number of mutations was more difficult than finding an ant's egg in an emperor's rice store."
New mutations can occasionally lead to severe diseases like cancer. It is hoped that the findings may lead to new ways to reduce mutations and provide insights into human evolution.
Joseph Nadeau, from the Case Western Reserve University in the US, who was not involved in this study said: "New mutations are the source of inherited variation, some of which can lead to disease and dysfunction, and some of which determine the nature and pace of evolutionary change.
"These are exciting times," he added.
"We are finally obtaining good reliable estimates of genetic features that are urgently needed to understand who we are genetically."
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^You need to close the beginning of the square bracket. To Bold the words.
[ ] [/]
Hummm, you already did. lol
Yes, I erased one bracket by mistake. Thanks anyway. Where did you get the six thousand years figure?
I'm talking about it because I was already planning to create a whole thread about the issue. Many people seems to make that mistake about haplogroups, genetic diversity, mutations. It's obvious when you read some posts in many forum, blogs responses, etc.
Obviously, I'm not a geneticist, I make many mistake myself. I always assume people will 'correct me if I'm wrong'. Even in this thread I had to EDIT my post I just made seconds before about the "Defining mutations", when I realized I made a mistake (which I made in an earlier post too). The 60-100 mutations are not restricted to the Y and MtDNA chromosomes thus there's less than 60-100 "Defining mutations" per haplotype. There's 60-100 mutations on the whole genome.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: In general it's being stated that mutations occur very somewhat six thousand years.
Ah fukk, I thought we were over that.
Not six thousand years, where did you get that? I'm not seeking to grill you, just curious. Every humans are born with about 60 to 100 mutations (usually neutral mutations of course).
No need for the face palm, . I read that years ago on a genetic curriculum page of some University. I forgot which one.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^You need to close the beginning of the square bracket. To Bold the words.
[ ] [/]
Hummm, you already did. lol
Yes, I erased one bracket by mistake. Thanks anyway. Where did you get the six thousand years figure?
I'm talking about it because I was already planning to create a whole thread about the issue. Many people seems to make that mistake about haplogroups, genetic diversity, mutations. It's obvious when you read some posts in many forum, blogs responses, etc.
Obviously, I'm not a geneticist, I make many mistake myself. I always assume people will 'correct me if I'm wrong'. Even in this thread I had to EDIT my post I just made seconds before about the "Defining mutations", when I realized I made a mistake (which I made in an earlier post too). The 60-100 mutations are not restricted to the Y and MtDNA chromosomes thus there's less than 60-100 "Defining mutations" per haplotype. There's 60-100 mutations on the whole genome.
I read that years ago on a genetic curriculum page of some University. I forgot which one.
But the interpretation might has changed on this issue. Since I can't find nothing concrete on it now.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: I read that years ago on a genetic curriculum page of some University. I forgot which one.
Frankly, somehow, I do feel I heard that somewhere, but I don't know where or in what context at all either. The important thing is that it isn't true, in our context, as the bbc article explains.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
The main problem is you don't read what what I've quoted.
I make a threads and you literally post about 12-20 long copy and paste posts one after the other and expect people to read them all. Then if somebody reads them all you post the same posts many times all over agin in other threads. One can't deal with 10 differnt artilces at once in the same thread. Each one is a thread topic in itself.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
After all, I did not type to ARTU? I responded to xyyzMan in the first place. ARTU jumped in somewhere in the middle. Go figure.
Please, there are so many coversations I'm in and you jump in, third party
Yes, I do so, since you try to push a Eurocentric agenda. By using "your" old and outdated divide and conquer tactics. Hence, segregation and dehumanization.
I post evidence which debunks your agenda. This is what troubles you. Too bad for you.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I'm just joking, since we agree, there's no point in discussing the issue much further.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic