Which you didn't do you plagiarizing liar.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
Syrians Bringing Horses, Tomb of Rekhmire Nina de Garis Davies (1881–1965)
This facsimile painting copies a detail from a scene of foreignors bringing offerings in the tomb of Rekhmire (TT 100) in western Thebes. This section of the scene depicts Syrians bringing a metal ingot and a chariot (31.6.34), horses (31.3.41), exotic animals (31.6.43), vessels and weapons (30.4.83).
code:
Period: New Kingdom Dynasty: Dynasty 18 Date: ca. 1504–1425 B.C.
Geography: Original from Egypt, Upper Egypt; Thebes, Sheikh Abd el-Qurna, Tomb of Rekhmire (TT 100)
Medium: Paper, tempera paint, ink
Dimensions: H. 45 cm (17 11/16 in); w. 51 cm (20 1/16 in)
This was the deliberate error that first struck me when comparing Hoskins' artist to the original, that he refused to repro that conical hat typical of West Africans like the Fulani.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Somewhere in a thread long ago and probably now deleted we covered this painting of the bricklayers who are A3mw nationals and Nhhsy nationals both overseen by a Rmt as determined by loincloths and physical features and perhaps partially by accompanying text.
The thread I'm talking about included an opinion that the Aamu were Egyptians and the one man's blue eye and blond chest hairs are due to old age.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [QB] Brickmakers, Tomb of Rekhmire Nina de Garis Davies (1881–1965)
Who are these lighter skinned people? Were they lighter skinned from one of these other groups like in the Grand Procession or are they symbolically lighter as novices or younger?
Which lighter skinned people?
It appears they are random workers. Common men, who's name is unknown. Men who are builders of a temples or sort alike.
However,
quote:Comparisons of linear body proportions of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom period individuals, and workers and high officials in our sample found no statistically significant differences among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also found little evidence for differences in linear body proportions of Egyptians over a wider temporal range.
This is the according the tradition. Of indigenous Africans, local to the region. Not slaves, but men of freewill.
It's funny how you always try to force things from your imaginations. Sorry I had to destroy your fantasy. And put lioness production out of business, once more.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
^^^ mention of lighter skin than Cretens (Kefti) No mention of hair or eye color
_______________________________________
George Alexander Hoskins Travels in Ethiopia above the 2nd cataract London: Longman (1835)
^^^ here Hoskins says the plate illustartion shows blue eyes and red hair. I assume the resolution of the illustration is not good enough to show blue eyes. During the second millennium BC, Syria was occupied successively by Canaanites, Phoenicians, and Arameans as part of the general disruptions and exchanges associated with the Sea Peoples.
So there all all sorts of ethnicties in the Syrian region at the time
I also assume on a good quallity photo made under poper lighting one could see blue eyes. If we were to look at a differnt possibility that a European illustator decided to change the eye color to blue seems not very plausible to me. Would they have need of some agenda to portray Syrians paying tribute to Egypt as blue eyed when they wern't blue eyed? It doesn't seem likely to me.
Syrians Bringing Horses, Tomb of Rekhmire Nina de Garis Davies (1881–1965)
the figures below from the tomb of Sebekhotep could be of the same type as Rekhmire, however their hair is not looking red as decribed by Hoskins. The ones who appear bald are actually wearing skull caps. Could some of them have had blue eys? It's possible but I'm not sure if they are the exact same type as the Grand Procession from Rekhmire figures
Fragment of painted plaster from the tomb of Sebekhotep
From Thebes, Egypt 18th Dynasty, around 1400 BC
Syrians presenting exotic vessels and tribute
Sebekhotep was a senior treasury official of the reign of Thutmose IV (1400-1390 BC). One of his responsibilities was clearly to deal with foreign gifts brought to the king. This fragment was part of a scene that showed Sebekhotep receiving the produce of the Near East and Africa on behalf of Thutmose IV.
Two pairs of two men (probably Syrians) pay homage to Sebekhotep as the kings' representative. Others carry vessels. Some of these items are most elaborate; made of gold inlaid with semi-precious stones. One man leads a small girl by the hand, while another carries an elephant tusk.
The scene would have been placed in Sebekhotep's tomb to illustrate his importance as an official, and to represent his relationship with the king; Sebekhotep enjoyed the privileges of office in death as in life.
^^^ you may see these labled in places "Syrian" They are actually Shasu bedouin, they are darker than the Cretens who Hodel-Hoenes & Warburton decribed as lighter than the Retjenu type of Syrian of the Grand Procession at Rekhmire They can be identified by their hair being drawn back and upward by a headband
Tomb of Merenptah,
^^ at left a different type of Syrian, proabaly not a Retenu, they typically hava a head band but it's over the hair not drawing it back, garmets usually with color pattern
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
^^^ This is what we have available for a photo segment from the actual tomb wall of Rekhmire, of very poor quality resolultion and made under bad lighting conditions.
The idea the these European authors in this particular case mounted a conspriacy and that the Retenu actually looked as dark as the below is silly yet they didn't lighten the Egyptians in the same paintings is trolling silliness
^^^ Thsi is waht we have available for a photo segment from the actual tomb wall of Rekhmire, of very poor quality resolultion and made under bad lighting conditions.
The idea the these European authors in this particular case mounted a conspriacy and that the Retenu actually looked as dark as the below is silly yet they didn't lighten the Egyptians in the same paintings is trolling silliness
The pseudo babble above is hilarious.
Everybody with a healthy set of eyes. Can see that the original image is not the same as the repainted illustration.
Except for the lioness aka eurocentric troll. Indeed the trolling is silliness.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
^^ at left a different type of Syrian, proabaly not a Retenu, they typically hava a head band but it's over the hair not drawing it back, garmets usually with color pattern
So, do tell...what happened to the "usual color pattern"? Where is it? Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
alTakruri already cited Retenu, specifically not any Syrian, Syrian of the Renenu (Rejenu type)
During the second millennium BC, Syria was occupied successively by Canaanites, Phoenicians, and Arameans as part of the general disruptions and exchanges associated with the Sea Peoples.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
Everybody with a healthy set of eyes. Can see that the original image is not the same as the repainted illustration.
^^^ YOUR SOURCE
saying that that matches the below Shasu is idiotic trolling
the illustrator screwed up to a degree, the original is actually showing different types of varied skin color within the same 4th register. One is lighter others darker. I have already pointed out one error with the triangular hat not being shown.
However the figure with the large vase does match
And the whole register has to be looked at for comaprison, all 15 figures
but only photos for a few of the figures have been posted
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
the illustrator screwed up to a degree, the original is actually showing different types of varied skin color within the same 4th register. One is lighter others darker. I have already pointed out one error with the triangular hat not being shown.
However the figure with the large vase does match
I wonder why there is not match? Hmmmm
It's a cartoon...yeah that's why.
This explains the so called suggested red hair and blue eyes, nor does the skin color match. Because in the original I don't see it.
It's not screwed up to a degree. It is completely f*cked up. Altered, falsified. Lied about, mislead and deceived.
You really don't see the magnitude of this do ya'? Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
the illustrator screwed up to a degree, the original is actually showing different types of varied skin color within the same 4th register. One is lighter others darker. I have already pointed out one error with the triangular hat not being shown.
However the figure with the large vase does match
And the whole register has to be looked at for comaprison, all 15 figures
but only photos for a few of the figures have been posted
You keep reiterating your Eurocentric theory, while ignoring all the other individual. Typical sick Eurocentric behavior.
90% of the cartoon illustration is false! fake!
I call this a problem.
Yet, now you try to take this one individual, and ignore ALL the others.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
The 4th register is 15 figures, so assumptions cannot be made until one sees a high resolultion photo of all 15
Here I have discovered another possible error in the illustration. The figure carrying the pillow shaped object or sack in the actual painting seems to have different head gear
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
The 4th register is 15 figures, so assumptions cannot be made until one sees a high resolultion photo of all 15
Here I have discovered another possible error in the illustration. The figure carrying the pillow shaped object or sack in the actual painting seems to have different head gear
I understand you have basic photoshop skills. But the other two are still excluded. Why? Why do / did you exclude them? And yes, there are. Many more errors made on purpose.
Here is another part, and it's the same pattern as before, despite of the paint reduction. However, the last registry is heavenly damaged. We therefor can conclude that the author reillustrated the image purely on wild imaginations.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
I enlarged that part of the photo because you were trying to say that all figures were a dark chocolate brown and there was a conspiracy going on
quote:Originally posted by beyoku: I am just commenting on how yall folks let lioness run this forum. Yall chase after her like a dog chasing its tail.
I enlarged that part of the photo because you were trying to say that all figures were a dark chocolate brown and there was a conspiracy going on
No, that's not what I said and or wrote.
I pointed out the faults which are obvious!
Btw, the last registry is heavy damaged. The author created an image based on delusionalism. It's completely made up. A fantasy. An "illus.....n"
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
____________________________________________^^^^ could this figure be Nubian?
Some similarity in the hat (or shape of beadwork) here>
^^ but not quite it has a strap going across the hat
Again, what type of hat is this? >> Rekhmire tomb, illustration
^^^not sure if there is a point from a beard tip projecting from the chin. There also is either a sideburn or hat strap. If these things are sideburn and beard this is probably not a Nubian but probably a Syrian of some sort. (Not 100% sure it's a hat and not hair) this illustration after a wall at Sebekhotep shows a group of Asiatics with varied color, third figure darker than the rest
posted
Very important constellation map over Palestine. Astrotheologist authors states many stories in the Bible are base on the movement of the stars in the cosmos.
In the Egyptian processions and murals of races there are always four kind of people. My theory is out of those four type of people came out all the different people on earth by selective breeding, mutation and climate. There are no Asian and White people in the Egyptian processions and murals of races
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Retenu (Retjenu), Rekhmire tomb, Thebes
____________________________________________^^^^ could this figure be Nubian?
Some similarity in the hat (or shape of beadwork) here>
^^ but not quite it has a strap going across the hat
Again, what type of hat is this? >> Rekhmire tomb, illustration
^^^not sure if there is a point from a beard tip projecting from the chin. There also is either a sideburn or hat strap. If these things are sideburn and beard this is probably not a Nubian but probably a Syrian of some sort. (Not 100% sure it's a hat and not hair) this illustration after a wall at Sebekhotep shows a group of Asiatics with varied color, third figure darker than the rest
__________________________________________
.
Libyans, tomb of Rameses III
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri
More pseudo babble nonsense.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
There's no question about who these folk are. The original AE caption says they're Retjenu with the farthest north people of the Levant. So the light skin, red beard, etc., are apropo.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
... man from the left behind the horse with a bow. Notice his hat, it's trianular shaped
Now look below at the illustration version that hat is not there the man is shown with a skull cap like the other figures-it's wrong
_________________________________________________
another illustration below made to include wall damage, now look at the hat, it's proper in this one
Syrians Bringing Horses, Tomb of Rekhmire Illustration by Nina de Garis Davies (1881–1965)
Now pay attention this time so I don't have to repeat myself for the low retention generation.
Again, that conical hat is typical of West Africans like the Fulani.
I first saw the Retjenu with that hat in the hyper negrophobic Nott&Glidden where they surmised the man was a far east Asian! Later I saw the Hoskins repro (in a book illustrating the Bible) where guy was not hatted but wore the kippah. Finally I came across that facs by the reliable Nina deGaris Davies and immediately recognized it as a type of hat today found in West Africa typically worn by Fulani.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
5. register captured children of the Southern and Northern lands for the workshops.
well I suppose the people at top are Nubians of some kind, Medjay or ?...
Could the girls at the bottom be female Retenu? The skirt has 2-3 distinctive bunches in it.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
5. register captured children of the Southern and Northern lands for the workshops.
well I suppose the people at top are Nubians of some kind, Medjay or ?...
Could the girls at the bottom be female Retenu? The skirt has 2-3 distinctive bunches in it.
Can you show the original, of the last registry? We already have prove that the cartoon illustration isn't as what the original is showing. Therefore, the cartoon you fetch on isn't very reliable as a sources. It's nice as a coffee table book, but that's about it.
Thanks for your time and effort!
Here is more:
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
It's hard to see, the whole register has 15 of these figures, this section seems to be of this type:
It's hard to see, because the row of the registry is heavenly damaged, that's why. Therefore you can't make out what the section is suppose to look like. It's mere fantasy, delusionalism. A pipe dream.
That is also why the cartoon is rubbish.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: There's no question about who these folk are. The original AE caption says they're Retjenu with the farthest north people of the Levant. So the light skin, red beard, etc., are apropo.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
... man from the left behind the horse with a bow. Notice his hat, it's trianular shaped
Now look below at the illustration version that hat is not there the man is shown with a skull cap like the other figures-it's wrong
_________________________________________________
another illustration below made to include wall damage, now look at the hat, it's proper in this one
Syrians Bringing Horses, Tomb of Rekhmire Illustration by Nina de Garis Davies (1881–1965)
Now pay attention this time so I don't have to repeat myself for the low retention generation.
Again, that conical hat is typical of West Africans like the Fulani.
I first saw the Retjenu with that hat in the hyper negrophobic Nott&Glidden where they surmised the man was a far east Asian! Later I saw the Hoskins repro (in a book illustrating the Bible) where guy was not hatted but wore the kippah. Finally I came across that facs by the reliable Nina deGaris Davies and immediately recognized it as a type of hat today found in West Africa typically worn by Fulani.
I didn't think of this one.
quote: The red men of Nigeria, an account of a lengthy residence among the Fulani, or "red men", & other pagan tribes of central Nigeria,
code:
Main Author: Wilson-Haffenden, James Rhodes, 1898- Language(s): English Published: Philadelphia, J. B. Lippincott company [1930] Subjects: Fula (African people) Ethnology > Nigeria Nigeria > Description and travel. Physical Description: 318 p. front., plates, fold. map. 22 cm. Original Format: Book Original Classification Number: DT 515 .W75 1930
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [qb] There's no question about who these folk are. The original AE caption says they're Retjenu with the farthest north people of the Levant. So the light skin, red beard, etc., are apropo.
maybe you don't understand what apropo means
so you can hang up you psuedo babble comment
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
* The Kefatiu, whose name was first read Kefa, and later Kefto, were originally identified with the inhabitants of Cyprus or Crete, and subsequently with those of Cilicia, although the decree of Canopus locates them in Phoenicia. Zahi originally comprised that portion of the desert and of the maritime plain on the north-east of Egypt which was coasted by the fleets, or traversed by the armies of Egypt, as they passed to and fro between Syria and the banks of the Nile. This region had been ravaged by Ahmosis during his raid upon Sharuhana, the year after the fall of Avaris. To the south-east of Zahi lay Kharu; it included the greater part of Mount Seir, whose wadys, thinly dotted over with oases, were inhabited by tribes of more or less stationary habits. The approaches to it were protected by a few towns, or rather fortified villages, built in the neighbourhood of springs, and surrounded by cultivated fields and poverty-stricken gardens; but the bulk of the people lived in tents or in caves on the mountain-sides. The Egyptians constantly confounded those Khauri, whom the Hebrews in after-times found scattered among the children of Edom, with the other tribes of Bedouin marauders, and designated them vaguely as Shausu. Lotanu lay beyond, to the north of Kharu and to the north-east of Zahi, among the hills which separate the “Shephelah” from the Jordan.*
* The name of Lotanu or Rotanu has been assigned by Brugsch to the Assyrians, but subsequently, by connecting it, more ingeniously than plausibly, with the Assyrian iltanu, he extended it to all the peoples of the north; we now know that in the texts it denotes the whole of Syria, and, more generally, all the peoples dwelling in the basins of the Orontes and the Euphrates. The attempt to connect the name Rotanu or Lotanu with that of the Edomite tribe of Lotan (Gen. xxxvi. 20, 22) was first made by P. de Saulcy; it was afterwards taken up by Haigh and adopted by Renan. As it was more remote from the isthmus, and formed the Egyptian horizon in that direction, all the new countries with which the Egyptians became acquainted beyond its northern limits were by degrees included under the one name of Lotanu, and this term was extended to comprise successively the entire valley of the Jordan, then that of the Orontes, and finally even that of the Euphrates. Lotanu became thenceforth a vague and fluctuating term, which the Egyptians applied indiscriminately to widely differing Asiatic nations, and to which they added another indefinite epithet when they desired to use it in a more limited sense: that part of Syria nearest to Egypt being in this case qualified as Upper Lotanu, while the towns and kingdoms further north were described as being in Lower Lotanu. In the same way the terms Zahi and Kharu were extended to cover other and more northerly regions. Zahi was applied to the coast as far as the mouth of the Nahr el-Kebir and to the country of the Lebanon which lay between the Mediterranean and the middle course of the Orontes. Kharu ran parallel to Zahi, but comprised the mountain district, and came to include most of the countries which were at first ranged under Upper Lotanu; it was never applied to the region beyond the neighbourhood of Mount Tabor, nor to the trans-Jordanie provinces. The three names in their wider sense preserved the same relation to each other as before, Zahi lying to the west and north-west of Kharu, and Lower Lotanu to the north of Kharu and north-east of Zahi, but the extension of meaning did not abolish the old conception of their position, and hence arose confusion in the minds of those who employed them; the scribes, for instance, who registered in some far-off Theban temple the victories of the Pharaoh would sometimes write Zahi where they should have inscribed Kharu, and it is a difficult matter for us always to detect their mistakes. It would be unjust to blame them too severely for their inaccuracies, for what means had they of determining the relative positions of that confusing collection of states with which the Egyptians came in contact as soon as they had set foot on Syrian soil? A choice of several routes into Asia, possessing unequal advantages, was open to the traveller, but the most direct of them passed through the town of Zalu. The old entrenchments running from the Ked Sea to the marshes of the Pelusiac branch still protected the isthmus, and beyond these, forming an additional defence, was a canal on the banks of which a fortress was constructed. This was occupied by the troops who guarded the frontier, and no traveller was allowed to pass without having declared his name and rank, signified the business which took him into Syria or Egypt, and shown the letters with which he was entrusted.*
* The notes of an official living at Zalu in the time of Mineptah are preserved on the back of pls. v., vi. of the Anastasi Papyrus III,; his business was to keep a register of the movements of the comers and goers between Egypt and Syria during a few days of the month Pakhons, in the year III. It was from Zalu that the Pharaohs set out with their troops, when summoned to Kharu by a hostile confederacy; it was to Zalu they returned triumphant after the campaign, and there, at the gates of the town, they were welcomed by the magnates of the kingdom. The road ran for some distance over a region which was covered by the inundation of the Nile during six months of the year; it then turned eastward, and for some distance skirted the sea-shore, passing between the Mediterranean and the swamp which writers of the Greek period called the Lake of Sirbonis.*
* The Sirbonian Lake is sometimes half full of water, sometimes almost entirely dry; at the present time it bears the name of Sebkhat Berdawil, from King Baldwin I. of Jerusalem, who on his return from his Egyptian campaign died on its shores, in 1148, before he could reach El-Artsh.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [qb] There's no question about who these folk are. The original AE caption says they're Retjenu with the farthest north people of the Levant. So the light skin, red beard, etc., are apropo.
maybe you don't understand what apropo means
so you can hang up you psuedo babble comment
What has apropo to do with me saying I did not think of that one, other then that being commentary? lol
The Fula stretch from West Africa to (North) East Africa. We know East Africa's history and relation to the Levant. And do I need to reminded you that he cited a source. "Nina deGaris Davies".
Have you thought of this one? Apropo!
You created the most delusional theories, based on a pipe dream. Puff puff.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: * The Kefatiu, whose name was first read Kefa, and later Kefto, were originally identified with the inhabitants of Cyprus or Crete, and subsequently with those of Cilicia, although the decree of Canopus locates them in Phoenicia. Zahi originally comprised that portion of the desert and of the maritime plain on the north-east of Egypt which was coasted by the fleets, or traversed by the armies of Egypt, as they passed to and fro between Syria and the banks of the Nile. This region had been ravaged by Ahmosis during his raid upon Sharuhana, the year after the fall of Avaris. To the south-east of Zahi lay Kharu; it included the greater part of Mount Seir, whose wadys, thinly dotted over with oases, were inhabited by tribes of more or less stationary habits. The approaches to it were protected by a few towns, or rather fortified villages, built in the neighbourhood of springs, and surrounded by cultivated fields and poverty-stricken gardens; but the bulk of the people lived in tents or in caves on the mountain-sides. The Egyptians constantly confounded those Khauri, whom the Hebrews in after-times found scattered among the children of Edom, with the other tribes of Bedouin marauders, and designated them vaguely as Shausu. Lotanu lay beyond, to the north of Kharu and to the north-east of Zahi, among the hills which separate the “Shephelah” from the Jordan.*
* The name of Lotanu or Rotanu has been assigned by Brugsch to the Assyrians, but subsequently, by connecting it, more ingeniously than plausibly, with the Assyrian iltanu, he extended it to all the peoples of the north; we now know that in the texts it denotes the whole of Syria, and, more generally, all the peoples dwelling in the basins of the Orontes and the Euphrates. The attempt to connect the name Rotanu or Lotanu with that of the Edomite tribe of Lotan (Gen. xxxvi. 20, 22) was first made by P. de Saulcy; it was afterwards taken up by Haigh and adopted by Renan. As it was more remote from the isthmus, and formed the Egyptian horizon in that direction, all the new countries with which the Egyptians became acquainted beyond its northern limits were by degrees included under the one name of Lotanu, and this term was extended to comprise successively the entire valley of the Jordan, then that of the Orontes, and finally even that of the Euphrates. Lotanu became thenceforth a vague and fluctuating term, which the Egyptians applied indiscriminately to widely differing Asiatic nations, and to which they added another indefinite epithet when they desired to use it in a more limited sense: that part of Syria nearest to Egypt being in this case qualified as Upper Lotanu, while the towns and kingdoms further north were described as being in Lower Lotanu. In the same way the terms Zahi and Kharu were extended to cover other and more northerly regions. Zahi was applied to the coast as far as the mouth of the Nahr el-Kebir and to the country of the Lebanon which lay between the Mediterranean and the middle course of the Orontes. Kharu ran parallel to Zahi, but comprised the mountain district, and came to include most of the countries which were at first ranged under Upper Lotanu; it was never applied to the region beyond the neighbourhood of Mount Tabor, nor to the trans-Jordanie provinces. The three names in their wider sense preserved the same relation to each other as before, Zahi lying to the west and north-west of Kharu, and Lower Lotanu to the north of Kharu and north-east of Zahi, but the extension of meaning did not abolish the old conception of their position, and hence arose confusion in the minds of those who employed them; the scribes, for instance, who registered in some far-off Theban temple the victories of the Pharaoh would sometimes write Zahi where they should have inscribed Kharu, and it is a difficult matter for us always to detect their mistakes. It would be unjust to blame them too severely for their inaccuracies, for what means had they of determining the relative positions of that confusing collection of states with which the Egyptians came in contact as soon as they had set foot on Syrian soil? A choice of several routes into Asia, possessing unequal advantages, was open to the traveller, but the most direct of them passed through the town of Zalu. The old entrenchments running from the Ked Sea to the marshes of the Pelusiac branch still protected the isthmus, and beyond these, forming an additional defence, was a canal on the banks of which a fortress was constructed. This was occupied by the troops who guarded the frontier, and no traveller was allowed to pass without having declared his name and rank, signified the business which took him into Syria or Egypt, and shown the letters with which he was entrusted.*
* The notes of an official living at Zalu in the time of Mineptah are preserved on the back of pls. v., vi. of the Anastasi Papyrus III,; his business was to keep a register of the movements of the comers and goers between Egypt and Syria during a few days of the month Pakhons, in the year III. It was from Zalu that the Pharaohs set out with their troops, when summoned to Kharu by a hostile confederacy; it was to Zalu they returned triumphant after the campaign, and there, at the gates of the town, they were welcomed by the magnates of the kingdom. The road ran for some distance over a region which was covered by the inundation of the Nile during six months of the year; it then turned eastward, and for some distance skirted the sea-shore, passing between the Mediterranean and the swamp which writers of the Greek period called the Lake of Sirbonis.*
* The Sirbonian Lake is sometimes half full of water, sometimes almost entirely dry; at the present time it bears the name of Sebkhat Berdawil, from King Baldwin I. of Jerusalem, who on his return from his Egyptian campaign died on its shores, in 1148, before he could reach El-Artsh.
You do realize the source originated from 1906? By that time, they weren't able to translate and or interpret Egyptian (KMT) accounts.
It was reprinted as a translated classic collector in 2008.
The present volume contains an account of the most important additions which have been made to our knowledge of the ancient history of Egypt and Western Asia during the few years which have elapsed since the publication of Prof. Maspero's Histoire Ancienne des Peuples de l'Orient Classique. First published 1906.
There are a lot of recent publications on The Battle Of Kadesh. You can look them up yourself.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] There's no question about who these folk are. The original AE caption says they're Retjenu with the farthest north people of the Levant. So the light skin, red beard, etc., are apropo.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
Again, that conical hat is typical of West Africans like the Fulani.
Do you think the red bearded Retenu and based on this hat on one of the Retenu register individuals, who are believed to be a type of Asiatic Syrian in general are direct ancestors of the Fulani?
Or do you think the figure with the triangular hat is darker and not of the same ethniticy as many of the other figures, at least partially, perhaps half African -and that he had become integrated into the Retenu culture? In this register of 15 figures
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
What happened to Lioness' recent thread?
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
also more at googlebooks, this title, a whole book on Keftiu
Keftiu and the Peoples of the Sea
1902, By Harry Reginald Hall
also type in Rekhmara in within the book's search
Dr Henry Reginald Holland Hall MBE, FBA, FSA (30 September 1873 — 13 October 1930) was an English Egyptologist and historian. In life, he was normally referred to as Harry Reginald Hall. In 1896 he started work at the British Museum as an assistant to E. A. Wallis Budge, becoming Assistant Keeper, Department of Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities in 1919. On Budge's retirement in 1924, Hall became Keeper of the Department of Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities, a post he held until his death in 1930.
On the art of Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia he was perhaps the pre-eminent authority, and it was one of his first tasks as Keeper to rearrange many of the galleries so as to stress the artistic and historical side of archaeology and less the predominantly religious emphasis which previously existed.
He was a forceful speaker with an encyclopaedic knowledge of his subject, and had great success in presenting archaeological discoveries to the general public. He was a frequent contributor of short articles and communications, submitting more than 100 of these to various academic journals, including the Journal of Egyptian Archaeology and the British Museum Quarterly. He also contributed chapters to Cambridge Ancient History as well as articles for Encyclopædia Britannica and Dictionary of National Biography.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Good you guys are investigating these people so were is Mike he needs to be on this fourm as well
lioness as you can see in George Alexander Hoskins picture or drawing compared to the original it matches up I do not see any Fake stuff here.
He even lets us know that the Kefti are Black Greeks from greece we all can see that they were Black
He also points out the color of the Egyptians and Nubians
Now the people at the bottom are they white? did the egyptians paint them with this light color?
Or is it just an old artifact and the paint is worn off?
If you look closely there are about 9 men the first 4 people on the left some of these men look like they have brown skin but some look like they have light skin especialy the 4 men in the front on the right it seems that they are light skin?
What is you take on this pic?
ANYONE?
now lioness and mike no one has come forward to give any clear understanding of who these people are
Now I know of a people that lived in lower palestine who were considered light skinned by the hebrews they called them RED people meaning blood shows through the skin
So EDOM was the obvious choice here cause these people lived in lower Syria
see lioness and Mike I am trying to find the So called white Race in history I am trying to track down their beginnings
Posts: 111 | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
Truthhitman go back into the thread you can compare the photos from the walls and judge for yourself. The below are all people in different sections of the 4th row Retneu (Retjenu)
Retjenu (rṯnw; Reṯenu, Retenu), was an Ancient Egyptian name for Canaan and Syria. It covered the region from the Negev Desert north to the Orontes River. The borders of Retjenu shifted with time, but it generally consisted of three regions. The southernmost was Djahy, which had about the same boundaries as Canaan.[Lebanon proper was located in the middle, between the Mediterranean and the Orontes River.North of Lebanon was designated Amurru, the land of the Amorites.
The earliest attestation of the name occurs in the Tale of Sinuhe, inscribed on a piece of limestone in 14th century BC.
The suggestion that Retenu is an Egyptian transliteration of the Hebrew term `arzenu, meaning "our land", was first made by Immanuel Velikovsky.[3]
He even lets us know that the Kefti are Black Greeks from greece we all can see that they were Black
The below people are dark skinned people form the Aegean islands, including Crete, the Minoans, the Mycenaean , the Cyclades, The top piece is Egyptian art of these people, the 2bd one is modern illustration version we have been looking at based on the Tomb of Rekhmire in Luxor (old name Thebes) Below it is art from the Aegean region itself
see lioness I am trying to find the So called white Race in history I am trying to track down their beginnings
there is a period called history which generally refers to when written records were first starting to be made. When you start to get before 5-6000 years you can't find much writing, much less writing which has detailed scientific sort of observation
Before writing there is a much earlier longer period called prehistoric, people running around primitive.
So if we look at a tomb in Egypt, Rekhmire, a govenor of Thebes during Thutmose III (1479-1424 BC) you can't assume that because somebody made a painting a that time that the painting is marking a point where a type of people began and just popped up then.
Pale skinned people in Eurasia go back to a prehsitoric times where you are not going to find a neat accurate painting of them that you can point to and say they started here. It's not going to happen, nor for Pale skinned East Asians any other types of humans in general.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Egyptian wigs tended to be helmet-like structures. Some were bright green, blue or red in color and some were adorned with precious metals and stones. Other were quite massive. One worn by Queen Isimkheb in 900 B.C., weighed so much she needed help from her attendants to stand up. Currently kept in the Cairo Museum, it was made entirely from brown human hair and held together by beeswax.
I know that already. But it seems odd on those individuals. And what about the "white" helmets?
King Tut 18th dynasty
Kiya, a lesser wife of Akhenaten who was probably Tutankhamun's mother..
Off topic but, Do you have any info or pics on different colored Egyptian wigs? Your inbox is full by the way..
Posts: 200 | From: Akahara | Registered: Aug 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just got through reading this thread and I have a few cents to add about these ethnic identity issues.
As for the 2nd regristry showing Keftiu:
Swenet, this is the first I've seen of evidence supporting southern Anatolian origins for the 'Keftiu', however this need not contradict Tukuler's assertions. After all, we know that Crete was settled by people from Anatolia among the various regions to colonize that island. This Anatolian colonization of the island is proven by archaeology, as well as by DNA evidence and even Greek legends of expansion by an eastern solar dynasty i.e. Queen Pasiphae.
[/URL]
We know from the physical reamains that the Bronze Age peoples of the Aegean including Crete were already heterogeneous showing diverse origins (including Africa). Anatolia need not be excluded.
As for the fourth register: They are labeled as Retenu which we know to be a region inhabited by various groups and not a specific ethnic group itself.
I think the clues to their ethnic origin lie not only in their physical appearance (white with red hair and blue eyes) but also the special type of animals they bring...
^ namely the horse. Based on this, I postulate that these Retenu may well be Indo-Europeans or those of Indo-European ancestry. We know that although the Mitanni kingdom or 'Naharin' was established by the New Kingdom, its peoples were settling the Assyrian region well before at least since the Middle Kingdom. Ausar has pointed out on several occasions that Mitanni were depicted as whites with blonde or red hair and blue eyes and wearing white robes and even white turbans. In fact the garb of these white Retenu including turbans bear a striking resemblance to the ritual garb of Zoroastrian Parsi. Note that many scholars have hypothesized that the Hyksos of the Levant adopted the horse from thse Indo-European peoples and that their migration into Egypt was spurred on by IE immigrations.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
DJ
Just so you know, Sammy or the Lioness axed a page and a half of excellent material from this thread last month.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
^ thread
MenKheperReSeneb is also another good source for a tribute scene of Retjenu
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
I think the clues to their ethnic origin lie not only in their physical appearance (white with red hair and blue eyes) but also the special type of animals they bring...
Great argument. I notice a large (ivory) tusk. And a small elephant without tusk.
I wonder, were the bringing (importing) or taking (exporting) materials and animals.
I notice, they've put hieroglyphs above the individuals. From what I see, the original mural doesn't show this. Is it imagination?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
The animals are discussed in the thread.
Syrian brown bear Syrian diminutive elephant (such as hunted in Syria by Tutmosis III (?)
Anyway we know who they are since the AE scribe who captioned the AE artist work clearly labeled the people in that tribute bearing procession register as repping Retjenu and northwards.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am in a rush right now. Do you have any peer reviewed information on the Syrian diminutive elephant?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic