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Author Topic: would Herodotus have considered this man to be black skinned?
the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ this guy makes a lot of sense, he says Obama is like the lighter side of Egyptians then spams the thread with 50 pages of dark Egyptians

I showcased black Egyptians and they are blacker than Obama, and this seems to cause you annoyance
because it runs counter to your campaign to align them with Jordanians and Palestinians instead of other black Africans. The least insulting position that you've ever argued (without evidence) is that the AE were "mixed".

I don't have such a campaign.
Analysis of ancient Egyptian DNA is in it's infancy. Therefore I have an open mind. The ancient Egyptians of all periods were African. There is also a possibility that some of their ancestry could be Levantine. Or maybe not.
That is my position, further research needed

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ this guy makes a lot of sense, he says Obama is like the lighter side of Egyptians then spams the thread with 50 pages of dark Egyptians

quote:
"Still, it appears that the process of state formation involved a large indigenous component. Outside influence and admixture with extraregional groups primarily occurred in Lower Egypt—perhaps during the later dynastic, but especially in Ptolmaic and Roman times (also Irish, 2006). No large-scale population replacement in the form of a foreign dynastic ‘race’ (Petrie, 1939) was indicated. Our results are generally consistent with those of Zakrzewski (2007). Using craniometric data in predynastic and early dynastic Egyptian samples, she also concluded that state formation was largely an indigenous process with some migration into the region evident. The sources of such migrants have not been identified; inclusion of additional regional and extraregional skeletal samples from various periods would be required for this purpose."
--Schillaci MA, Irish JD, Wood CC. 2009
Further analysis of the population history of ancient Egyptians.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ this guy makes a lot of sense, he says Obama is like the lighter side of Egyptians then spams the thread with 50 pages of dark Egyptians

quote:
"Still, it appears that the process of state formation involved a large indigenous component. Outside influence and admixture with extraregional groups primarily occurred in Lower Egypt—perhaps during the later dynastic, but especially in Ptolmaic and Roman times (also Irish, 2006). No large-scale population replacement in the form of a foreign dynastic ‘race’ (Petrie, 1939) was indicated. Our results are generally consistent with those of Zakrzewski (2007). Using craniometric data in predynastic and early dynastic Egyptian samples, she also concluded that state formation was largely an indigenous process with some migration into the region evident. The sources of such migrants have not been identified; inclusion of additional regional and extraregional skeletal samples from various periods would be required for this purpose."
--Schillaci MA, Irish JD, Wood CC. 2009
Further analysis of the population history of ancient Egyptians.

this is why the issue is not resolved

" she also concluded that state formation was largely an indigenous process with some migration into the region evident. The sources of such migrants have not been identified; inclusion of additional regional and extraregional skeletal samples from various periods would be required for this purpose."

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] ^^^ this guy makes a lot of sense, he says Obama is like the lighter side of Egyptians then spams the thread with 50 pages of dark Egyptians

quote:
"Still, it appears that the process of state formation involved a large indigenous component. Outside influence and admixture with extraregional groups primarily occurred in Lower Egypt—perhaps during the later dynastic, but especially in Ptolmaic and Roman times (also Irish, 2006). No large-scale population replacement in the form of a foreign dynastic ‘race’ (Petrie, 1939) was indicated. Our results are generally consistent with those of Zakrzewski (2007). Using craniometric data in predynastic and early dynastic Egyptian samples, she also concluded that state formation was largely an indigenous process with some migration into the region evident. The sources of such migrants have not been identified; inclusion of additional regional and extraregional skeletal samples from various periods would be required for this purpose."
--Schillaci MA, Irish JD, Wood CC. 2009
Further analysis of the population history of ancient Egyptians.

this is why the issue is not resolved

" she also concluded that state formation was largely an indigenous process with some migration into the region evident. The sources of such migrants have not been identified; inclusion of additional regional and extraregional skeletal samples from various periods would be required for this purpose."

What we have on the state formation, let's see?

quote:
"Many of the sites reveal evidence of important interactions between Nilotic and Saharan groups during the formative phases of the Egyptian Predynastic Period (e.g. Wadi el-Hôl, Rayayna, Nuq’ Menih, Kurkur Oasis). Other sites preserve important information regarding the use of the desert routes during the Protodynastic and Pharaonic Periods, particularly during periods of political and military turmoil in the Nile Valley (e.g. Gebel Tjauti, Wadi el-Hôl)."
http://www.yale.edu/egyptology/ae_theban.htm


What does Sonia actually say(?):


quote:
"As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or "Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). Cranial nonmetric trait studies have found this group to be similar to other Egyptians, including much later material (Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972), but also to be significantly different from LPD material (Berry et al., 1967). Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric traits has suggested that the Badarian population is at the centroid of Egyptian dental samples (Irish, 2006), thereby suggesting similarity and hence continuity across Egyptian time periods. From the central location of the Badarian samples in Figure 2, the current study finds the Badarian to be relatively morphologically close to the centroid of all the Egyptian samples. The Badarian have been shown to exhibit greatest morphological similarity with the temporally successive EPD (Table 5). Finally, the biological distinctiveness of the Badarian from other Egyptian samples has also been demonstrated (Tables 6 and 7).


These results suggest that the EDyn do form a distinct morphological pattern. Their overlap with other Egyptian samples (in PC space, Fig. 2) suggests that although their morphology is distinctive, the pattern does overlap with the other time periods. These results therefore do not support the Petrie concept of a \Dynastic race" (Petrie, 1939; Derry, 1956). Instead, the results suggest that the Egyptian state was not the product of mass movement of populations into the Egyptian Nile region, but rather that it was the result of primarily indigenous development combined with prolonged small-scale migration, potentially from trade, military, or other contacts.

This evidence suggests that the process of state formation itself may have been mainly an indigenous process, but that it may have occurred in association with in-migration to the Abydos region of the Nile Valley. This potential in-migration may have occurred particularly during the EDyn and OK. A possible explanation is that the Egyptian state formed through increasing control of trade and raw materials, or due to military actions, potentially associated with the use of the Nile Valley as a corridor for prolonged small scale movements through the desert environment."

--Sonia R. Zakrzewski. (2007). Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 132:501-509)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.20569/abstract

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DD'eDeN
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Geologically, Levantine is African, peninsular Arabia.

--------------------
xyambuatlaya

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Geologically, Levantine is African, peninsular Arabia.

And for convenience also called east Mediterranean.
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Geologically, Levantine is African, peninsular Arabia.

The Arabian peninsula is not Africa geologically. It is on a separate tectonic plate.
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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Geologically, Levantine is African, peninsular Arabia.

The Arabian peninsula is not Africa geologically. It is on a separate tectonic plate.
lol smh

The same people lived on bothsides of the Black Sea. You just can't help yourself. Geologically the peninsular Arabia is an African extension.

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Geologically, Levantine is African, peninsular Arabia.

The Arabian peninsula is not Africa geologically. It is on a separate tectonic plate.
lol smh

The same people lived on bothsides of the Black Sea. You just can't help yourself. Geologically the peninsular Arabia is an African extension.

 -

So the Arabian peninsula has something to do with the Black Sea?

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Snakepit1
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Geologically, Levantine is African, peninsular Arabia.

The Arabian peninsula is not Africa geologically. It is on a separate tectonic plate.
lol smh

The same people lived on bothsides of the Black Sea. You just can't help yourself. Geologically the peninsular Arabia is an African extension.

 -

So the Arabian peninsula has something to do with the Black Sea?

Hehe, he was referring to the Red Sea. [Cool]
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the lioness,
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The Black Sea is where the Blacks were not the Red Sea

back in the day of course, before the flood

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Geologically, Levantine is African, peninsular Arabia.

The Arabian peninsula is not Africa geologically. It is on a separate tectonic plate.
lol smh

The same people lived on bothsides of the Black Sea. You just can't help yourself. Geologically the peninsular Arabia is an African extension.

 -

So the http://www.imninalu.net/Myths_files/Arabia.jpgArabian peninsula has something to do with the Black Sea?

Pardon me, I meant to say the Red Sea. But it should have been obvious by now. Then again, according to the national geographic page you've posted, the Arabian Peninsula has something to do with the Black Sea.


 -

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mena7
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 -
I like that racial zodiac

 -
USA Pres Barack Obama

 -
Fayum portrait of Roman brothers

 -
Fayum Portrait of Black or Mulato Roman looking like Barack Obama.

 -
Rare Fayum portrait of Black Roman. The Upper Egyptian were the same dark skin color. Many Ancient Egyptian family migrated to Etruria in Italy and to South Spain.

 -
Haitian President Michel Martelly. Martelli may have stated he is of Italian descant.

 -
Usa Pres Brack Obama and Haitian Pres Matelly

 -
Pharaoh Akhenaton and President Obama

I think Herodotus and later Greek and Roman historians woud considered USA President Barack Obama to be a Black Lower Egyptian, a Phoenician, a Jew, a Greek or a Roman. The Upper Egyptians were dark black skin people.

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by Snakepit1:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by DD'eDeN:
Geologically, Levantine is African, peninsular Arabia.

The Arabian peninsula is not Africa geologically. It is on a separate tectonic plate.
lol smh

The same people lived on bothsides of the Black Sea. You just can't help yourself. Geologically the peninsular Arabia is an African extension.

 -

So the Arabian peninsula has something to do with the Black Sea?

Hehe, he was referring to the Red Sea. [Cool]
Yes, thanks. Someone intelligent.
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mena7
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 -
Probably President Obama real father Frank Marshall Davis. Mike 111 may like him more if his father is African American instead of Kenyan.

 -
President Obama and Frank Marshall Davis

 -
Obam half brothers

 -
Pres Obama and his Kenyan father

 -
President Obama had two playboy fathers Barack Obama Sr and Frank Marshall Davis

 -
Barack Obama and Frank Marshall Davis

 -
Pres Obama brother Malik
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12489&start=15

Obama's the product of the unholy union of his European heritage mother with the radical communist Frank Marshall Davis. There are a bunch of Articles about it as well as a full length documentary, Dreams from My Real Father. Obummer likely had a nose job done in the past to disguise the outright similarities cause he doesn't look anything like his supposed 'real' African father.

I'm also semi-convinced that Michelle Obummer may be a transexual. I've read and looked at videos of the evidence and it is convincing...

http://www.inquisitr.com/2043054/communist-mention-frank-marshall-davis-is-president-obamas-real-father/

Image

Communist Mentor Frank Marshall Davis Is President Obama’s Real Father?
Frank Marshall Davis is Barack Obama's real father?

Few know it but our current president’s full name is Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. and his father is supposedly Barack Hussein Obama, who is a Kenyan citizen, and ex-husband of our president’s mother. But what if junior is not really the son of Barack Hussein Obama, but has someone else as his biological father. That is exactly what is reported recently by DC Clothesline, that Obama’s communist mentor Frank Marshall Davis, is the actual father of our president.

A friend of mine likes to say, “Mother’s baby, father’s, maybe.” But could this be true about our president? According to many, that believe this to be true, Frank Marshall Davis, a childhood mentor of our president and close friend of his mom, might be the real father of Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.

“Joel Gilbert, the man who produced the film Dreams from My Real Father, which suggested that Obama’s Communist mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, may be his real father, has just released a bombshell interview with Obama’s brother Malik,” DC Clothesline reports.
HOW TO PROVE THAT OBAMA'S FATHER IS FRANK MARSHALL DAVIS, via Fair Use Act material
President Frank Marshall Davis Jr.

G7-Gipfel in Elmau: Trachtenempfang von Barack Obama und Angela Merkel am 07.06.2015
OBAMA's REAL FATHER is Frank Marshall Davis !!!
MICHELLE or MICHAEL OBAMA IS SHE A HE?

Obama’s own brother, Malik Obama, believe it to be true, saying in the interview, “There’s a great resemblance. I think Frank Marshall Davis and Barack, they look alike. Some kind of moles I see on his face and Frank, he has those too. There’s a resemblance.”

When asked if Barack Obama resembled his father, Malik said, “Not really, I don’t. They talk, they say about the years, but no. No. Your movie definitely puts a lot of questions in my mind.”

The interview of Malik Obama was reported by Allen West’s web site, where Obama’s brother says about our president, “Disappointed, disappointed, used, used and also betrayed. In the beginning, I didn’t think that he was a schemer. His real character, his real personality, the real him, is coming out now.”

The Freedom Outpost also reported on the interview of Malik Obama and how he thinks it’s very possible that Frank Marshall Davis is the real father of his brother, Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. our current president.

The true identity of President Obama’s real father and the notion that Frank Marshall Davis is the real father was highlight in the movie Dreams From My Real Father, the Inquisitr reported in 2012 when the film was released.

“Frank Marshall Davis, a ‘radical poet,’ journalist and ‘card-carrying member’ of the Communist Party USA is the actual biological father of President Obama, according to Gilbert’s research. Obama has acknowledged having a close relationship with Davis, who was considered a friend of the family. Gilbert contends that the president has a close physical resemblance to Davis and shared few physical characteristics with the Kenyan-born Barack Obama, Sr.,” the Inquisitr reported.

[Pictures of Barack Obama Sr, Barack Obama, Jr and Frank Marshall Davis from ]www.wnd.com.]
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
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the lioness,
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^come on mena, this is straight garbage
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mena7
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When we are looking at politic, history and watching the news we have to be open minded, freethinking and look at all the evidences it doesnt matter if it looks silly. According to Philosopher Nicolas Machiavelli politic is build on deception. It is naive to think mainstream journalists, historians and politicians are going to tell us the truth.

It is not my duty to trust any politicians and businessman in the world. I am an open minded person who looks at all the evidences. There is a ressemblance between Pres Barack Obama and Frank Marshall Davis.

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the lioness,
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mena instead of being skeptical you tend to believe things because you just like conspiracies. You believe 90% of them when only 1% are true

 -

This is Ilham Anas. He is an Indonesian look-alike of Barak Obama.

Now you could easily create some kind of crazy story about that or just realize that many things in life are just random.

Everything does not happen for a reason

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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by mena7:
When we are looking at politic, history and watching the news we have to be open minded, freethinking and look at all the evidences it doesnt matter if it looks silly. According to Philosopher Nicolas Machiavelli politic is build on deception. It is naive to think mainstream journalists, historians and politicians are going to tell us the truth.

It is not my duty to trust any politicians and businessman in the world. I am an open minded person who looks at all the evidences. There is a ressemblance between Pres Barack Obama and Frank Marshall Davis.

Why is it people create delusions about Obama?

Upload your picture, and let us get creative.

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sudaniya
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ this guy makes a lot of sense, he says Obama is like the lighter side of Egyptians then spams the thread with 50 pages of dark Egyptians

I showcased black Egyptians and they are blacker than Obama, and this seems to cause you annoyance
because it runs counter to your campaign to align them with Jordanians and Palestinians instead of other black Africans. The least insulting position that you've ever argued (without evidence) is that the AE were "mixed".

I don't have such a campaign.
Analysis of ancient Egyptian DNA is in it's infancy. Therefore I have an open mind. The ancient Egyptians of all periods were African. There is also a possibility that some of their ancestry could be Levantine. Or maybe not.
That is my position, further research needed

If you're aware that AE was African in all periods then why do you you constantly put such an emphasis on the small number of migrants that may have settled in Lower Egypt during the later dynastic -- long after all the features of Egyptian civilization and culture had been established by Africans!?

The small number of Eurasian migrants that could have made their way into Egypt would have settled in Lower Egypt -- a comparatively primitive region that was far less significant than Upper Egypt.

Unlike Upper Egypt, Lower Egypt is not believed to have ever been a unified kingdom and was conquered and dominated by the more populous, more powerful, more advanced, and more cohesive South. Everything that was Egypt came from the South.


Europeans have long tried to demonstrate that Eurasians played a significant role in the rise of Egypt and yet they can't find any evidence of a Eurasian mass migration into Egypt.


You're not keeping an "open mind", you're desperately hoping that AE was "mixed" instead of just African in opposition to all the evidence so that Africans can't lay exclusive claim to Egypt the same way that Europeans lay exclusive claim to Greece and Rome and Asians to China.

There's no civilization that can boast that it's (demographically speaking) hermetically sealed, but it's only when it concerns Africa's golden civilization (AE) that you white people feel the need to exaggerate the importance of migrants in the rise of this African civilization and pretend that the issue is not resolved. It is resolved. It's done.

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R.Havoc
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quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ this guy makes a lot of sense, he says Obama is like the lighter side of Egyptians then spams the thread with 50 pages of dark Egyptians

I showcased black Egyptians and they are blacker than Obama, and this seems to cause you annoyance because it runs counter to your campaign to align them with Jordanians and Palestinians instead of other black Africans. The least insulting position that you've ever argued (without evidence) is that the AE were "mixed".
If you're smart at Critical Thinking as you seem to be at Picture Spamming, you could ask yourself, some hard questions?

First, why would the Ancient Egyptians Select a Reddish Brown Color for their people, if they were actually Black Skinned?

Second, why would they even consider painting their women as very light yellowish and sometimes white, if they were Actually Black Skinned African Women?

Third, the very location of Ancient and Modern Egypt, makes it logical that the people would Never Be Exclusively Black Africans. The country is essentially "Jutting Out of the African Main Land and actually does straddle two Continents, two Major Seas, and Vast Deserts to its west and south. Not to mention the Nile River and its treacherous Cataracts that kept many Southern Black Africans Out of Egypt.

Also, Most Mummies have been found to be Not Black Africans! Ramses II was actually a natural Redhead and was described by an Independent French Scientific team as most likely was a light skinned person with wavy red hair.

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kdolo
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Come on dude. Stop.

--------------------
Keldal

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sudaniya
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quote:
Originally posted by iTrump:
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ this guy makes a lot of sense, he says Obama is like the lighter side of Egyptians then spams the thread with 50 pages of dark Egyptians

I showcased black Egyptians and they are blacker than Obama, and this seems to cause you annoyance because it runs counter to your campaign to align them with Jordanians and Palestinians instead of other black Africans. The least insulting position that you've ever argued (without evidence) is that the AE were "mixed".
If you're smart at Critical Thinking as you seem to be at Picture Spamming, you could ask yourself, some hard questions?

First, why would the Ancient Egyptians Select a Reddish Brown Color for their people, if they were actually Black Skinned?

Second, why would they even consider painting their women as very light yellowish and sometimes white, if they were Actually Black Skinned African Women?

Third, the very location of Ancient and Modern Egypt, makes it logical that the people would Never Be Exclusively Black Africans. The country is essentially "Jutting Out of the African Main Land and actually does straddle two Continents, two Major Seas, and Vast Deserts to its west and south. Not to mention the Nile River and its treacherous Cataracts that kept many Southern Black Africans Out of Egypt.

Also, Most Mummies have been found to be Not Black Africans! Ramses II was actually a natural Redhead and was described by an Independent French Scientific team as most likely was a light skinned person with wavy red hair.

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All the native mummies of AE were black and scientists (anthropologists and others) have not found evidence of a mass migration of Eurasians into Egypt prior to the Greek conquest. The most significant intrusion of Eurasians into Egypt occurred in the 7th century AD - when Arabs took charge of Egypt.

Upper Egypt has had shared affinities with 'Nubia' for tens of thousands of years, and this is why specialists understand that 'Nubians' were ethnically the closest people to the ancient Egyptians since the predynastic period, and that they have a common origin that goes back to the Khartoum Mesolithic.


Even if one to were believe that some Eurasians made their way into Lower Egypt, the South was always predominant; it was the significantly more sophisticated South that conquered the North [Narmer] and united the two lands; the population of ancient Egypt was concentrated in the South; the swampy Delta was nothing but a sparsely populated backwater until the Southerners conquered it and built wonderful monuments upon it. Most of the native dynasties came from the South and the Theban priests were the most powerful. The undeniably black South was alpha.

Imhotep, the world's real father of medicine and masterful architect, engineer, was from the South.

The people of Southern Egypt have common origins with the 'Nubians' of Egypt and Sudan.


Narmer

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"The famous Narmer palette shows him on one side wearing the white crown of Upper Egypt, and the other shows him wearing the red crown of Lower Egypt. It also shows the hawk emblem of Horus, the Upper Egyptian god of Nekhem, dominating the Lower Egypt personified papyrus marsh. From this, Narmer is believed to have unified Egypt."

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/predynastic.htm

I showed you mountains of pictures of black Egyptians (men and women) and this seems be an anathema to your sick little mind.


Queen Tiye (Tut's grandmother).

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The pharaoh Senusret I:

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sudaniya
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Hematite (also called red ochre) has been used by the people of Sahara, Sahel and the Nile Valley to portray themselves for thousands of years before it was used in Dynastic Egypt. It was a symbolic color convention that even Sudanese used on our walls.


Here's a picture of a black man from Swaziland standing next to a Hematite mine and his skin tone matches the red ochre.

 - [Big Grin] [Razz]

Lower Nubians as portrayed by ancient Egyptians

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Kushites portraying themselves


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Using ADMIXTURE and principal-component analysis (PCA) (Figure 1A), we estimated the average proportion of non-African ancestry in the Egyptians to be 80% and dated the midpoint of the admixture event by using ALDER20 to around 750 years ago (Table S2), consistent with the Islamic expansion and dates reported previously.

Tracing the Route of Modern Humans out of Africa by Using 225 Human Genome Sequences from Ethiopians and Egyptians.

The only Egyptians that truly carry the genes of the pharaohs that is significant are the black Egyptians in the South.

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sudaniya
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The hair found on AE mummies is wavy and is indigenous to Africa. You can see this type of hair in the Upper Egypt, North Sudan, Somalia, Mali, Niger and apparently even in Uganda. Descendants of the pharaohs in Egypt, Sudan and Somalia:

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Beja man

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sudaniya
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The Neolithic rock art paintings in South-west Egypt ("cave of swimmers") show that the ancestors of the AE painted themselves as black and brown -- just like other Africans.

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Bushmen rock art

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Northwest Sahara rock art

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Chad rock art

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National sovereignty is sacrosanct

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DD'eDeN
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the lioness, : "The Arabian peninsula is not Africa geologically. It is on a separate tectonic plate."

NE Africa (including Arabia) gouged under the Taurus/Zagros lifting them,

Africa was pushed west/NW when India gouged under the Himalayas lifting them,

the Jordan Rift valley, Red Sea and African Rift valleys formed as Africa moved W/NW, leaving only the Sinai still physically bridging Africa and Arabia.

There are many continents composed of more than 1 tectonic plate.

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xyambuatlaya

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R.Havoc
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You're Obviously a Very Confused Mixed-Up Black Sudanese Troll!

All Eurasians Are Former Egyptians. They All Left Africa through Ancient Ancient Egypt. Many came back to Egypt and North Africa, and Also East Africa. The Caucasoid Admixture that is found in high percentages in Sudan, Eritera, Somalia, Ethiopia, and Other East African nations is because of these Ancient Ancient Egyptians that came back.

Cairo was a major Slave Market during the Ottoman Empire and thus most of the 14% Black admixture in Modern Egypt is from this recent period.

Egyptians are about 65% Mediterranean and they're more Mediterranean than Greeks, Italians, Spanish, and Many Other Mediterranean Nations.

Case Closed: You Have Lost Big Time, Because Science Has Dealt Afro Idiots a Fatal Blow!! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]


quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
The hair found on AE mummies is wavy and is indigenous to Africa.


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Punos_Rey
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quote:
Originally posted by iTrump:
You're Obviously a Very Confused Mixed-Up Black Sudanese Troll!

All Eurasians Are Former Egyptians. They All Left Africa through Ancient Ancient Egypt. Many came back to Egypt and North Africa, and Also East Africa. The Caucasoid Admixture that is found in high percentages in Sudan, Eritera, Somalia, Ethiopia, and Other East African nations is because of these Ancient Ancient Egyptians that came back.

Cairo was a major Slave Market during the Ottoman Empire and thus most of the 14% Black admixture in Modern Egypt is from this recent period.

Egyptians are about 65% Mediterranean and they're more Mediterranean than Greeks, Italians, Spanish, and Many Other Mediterranean Nations.

Case Closed: You Have Lost Big Time, Because Science Has Dealt Afro Idiots a Fatal Blow!! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]


quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
The hair found on AE mummies is wavy and is indigenous to Africa.


You seriously can't be this stupid.

The supposed mass backmigration of Eurasians into Africa occurred around 3,000 years ago according to the recently corrected Mota study. That's way late into the New Kingdom btw, getting into the Late Period.

It's also been established numerous times across numerous studies that the original colonizers of Egypt were Sub-Saharan Nilotics. So yeah, no that black ancestry isn't because of the Ottoman slave markets.

But sure let's talk about slavery, specifically the millions of white slaves brought to the Barbary coast and sold throughout North Africa. I have a pretty solid hunch that would explain a very large portion of Eurasian ancestry in North Africans/Egyptians today and be a crucial factor in why those regions look the way they do today.

quote:
COLUMBUS, Ohio – A new study suggests that a million or more European Christians were enslaved by Muslims in North Africa between 1530 and 1780 – a far greater number than had ever been estimated before.

In a new book, Robert Davis, professor of history at Ohio State University, developed a unique methodology to calculate the number of white Christians who were enslaved along Africa’s Barbary Coast, arriving at much higher slave population estimates than any previous studies had found.

Most other accounts of slavery along the Barbary coast didn’t try to estimate the number of slaves, or only looked at the number of slaves in particular cities, Davis said. Most previously estimated slave counts have thus tended to be in the thousands, or at most in the tens of thousands. Davis, by contrast, has calculated that between 1 million and 1.25 million European Christians were captured and forced to work in North Africa from the 16th to 18th centuries.
Davis’s new estimates appear in the book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800 (Palgrave Macmillan).
“Enslavement was a very real possibility for anyone who traveled in the Mediterranean, or who lived along the shores in places like Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, and even as far north as England and Iceland.”

“Much of what has been written gives the impression that there were not many slaves and minimizes the impact that slavery had on Europe,” Davis said. “Most accounts only look at slavery in one place, or only for a short period of time. But when you take a broader, longer view, the massive scope of this slavery and its powerful impact become clear.”

Davis said it is useful to compare this Mediterranean slavery to the Atlantic slave trade that brought black Africans to the Americas. Over the course of four centuries, the Atlantic slave trade was much larger – about 10 to 12 million black Africans were brought to the Americas. But from 1500 to 1650, when trans-Atlantic slaving was still in its infancy, more white Christian slaves were probably taken to Barbary than black African slaves to the Americas, according to Davis.

“One of the things that both the public and many scholars have tended to take as given is that slavery was always racial in nature – that only blacks have been slaves. But that is not true,” Davis said. “We cannot think of slavery as something that only white people did to black people.”

During the time period Davis studied, it was religion and ethnicity, as much as race, that determined who became slaves.
“Enslavement was a very real possibility for anyone who traveled in the Mediterranean, or who lived along the shores in places like Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, and even as far north as England and Iceland,” he said.

Pirates (called corsairs) from cities along the Barbary Coast in north Africa – cities such as Tunis and Algiers – would raid ships in the Mediterranean and Atlantic, as well as seaside villages to capture men, women and children. The impact of these attacks were devastating – France, England, and Spain each lost thousands of ships, and long stretches of the Spanish and Italian coasts were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants. At its peak, the destruction and depopulation of some areas probably exceeded what European slavers would later inflict on the African interior.
Although hundreds of thousands of Christian slaves were taken from Mediterranean countries, Davis noted, the effects of Muslim slave raids was felt much further away: it appears, for example, that through most of the 17th century the English lost at least 400 sailors a year to the slavers.

Even Americans were not immune. For example, one American slave reported that 130 other American seamen had been enslaved by the Algerians in the Mediterranean and Atlantic just between 1785 and 1793.

Davis said the vast scope of slavery in North Africa has been ignored and minimized, in large part because it is on no one’s agenda to discuss what happened.

The enslavement of Europeans doesn’t fit the general theme of European world conquest and colonialism that is central to scholarship on the early modern era, he said. Many of the countries that were victims of slavery, such as France and Spain, would later conquer and colonize the areas of North Africa where their citizens were once held as slaves. Maybe because of this history, Western scholars have thought of the Europeans primarily as “evil colonialists” and not as the victims they sometimes were, Davis said.
Davis said another reason that Mediterranean slavery has been ignored or minimized has been that there have not been good estimates of the total number of people enslaved. People of the time – both Europeans and the Barbary Coast slave owners – did not keep detailed, trustworthy records of the number of slaves. In contrast, there are extensive records that document the number of Africans brought to the Americas as slaves.

So Davis developed a new methodology to come up with reasonable estimates of the number of slaves along the Barbary Coast. Davis found the best records available indicating how many slaves were at a particular location at a single time. He then estimated how many new slaves it would take to replace slaves as they died, escaped or were ransomed.

“The only way I could come up with hard numbers is to turn the whole problem upside down – figure out how many slaves they would have to capture to maintain a certain level,” he said. “It is not the best way to make population estimates, but it is the only way with the limited records available.”

Putting together such sources of attrition as deaths, escapes, ransomings, and conversions, Davis calculated that about one-fourth of slaves had to be replaced each year to keep the slave population stable, as it apparently was between 1580 and 1680. That meant about 8,500 new slaves had to be captured each year. Overall, this suggests nearly a million slaves would have been taken captive during this period. Using the same methodology, Davis has estimated as many as 475,000 additional slaves were taken in the previous and following centuries.

The result is that between 1530 and 1780 there were almost certainly 1 million and quite possibly as many as 1.25 million white, European Christians enslaved by the Muslims of the Barbary Coast.

Davis said his research into the treatment of these slaves suggests that, for most of them, their lives were every bit as difficult as that of slaves in America.

“As far as daily living conditions, the Mediterranean slaves certainly didn’t have it better,” he said.

While African slaves did grueling labor on sugar and cotton plantations in the Americas, European Christian slaves were often worked just as hard and as lethally – in quarries, in heavy construction, and above all rowing the corsair galleys themselves.

Davis said his findings suggest that this invisible slavery of European Christians deserves more attention from scholars.

“We have lost the sense of how large enslavement could loom for those who lived around the Mediterranean and the threat they were under,” he said. “Slaves were still slaves, whether they are black or white, and whether they suffered in America or North Africa.”

Hmmm, sounds to me that Euronuts should fall back before rushing to play the slavery card.

https://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/whtslav.htm

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sudaniya
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Punos_Rey

Don't be so quick to discount stupidity, because it's an all too evident factor in his lunacy. In addition to being irredeemably stupid, the troll is clearly mentally ill, and so perhaps we shouldn't entertain such a mentally deranged little dolt.

We know that modern Egyptians (are on average) 80% non African and the entrance of this non-African DNA has been documented to 1400 years ago -- when the Arabs conquered Egypt.

He has yet to provide evidence of a mass migration of Eurasians into Egypt prior to the Greek conquest. There is not a single academic that would agree with the laughable contention that Eurasians are descendants of the AE. Not one.

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Fourty2Tribes
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quote:
Originally posted by iTrump:
[QB] You're Obviously a Very Confused Mixed-Up Black Sudanese Troll!

All Eurasians Are Former Egyptians. They All Left Africa through Ancient Ancient Egypt. Many came back to Egypt and North Africa, and Also East Africa. The Caucasoid Admixture that is found in high percentages in Sudan, Eritera, Somalia, Ethiopia, and Other East African nations is because of these Ancient Ancient Egyptians that came back.

Cairo was a major Slave Market during the Ottoman Empire and thus most of the 14% Black admixture in Modern Egypt is from this recent period.

Egyptians are about 65% Mediterranean and they're more Mediterranean than Greeks, Italians, Spanish, and Many Other Mediterranean Nations.

Case Closed: You Have Lost Big Time, Because Science Has Dealt Afro Idiots a Fatal Blow!! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]


There was a full genome analysis on modern Egyptians.
And the results conflict...
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009235


Here's from the same study the analysis of "Ancient Egyptians" genetic distances with modern populations. That is modern Egyptians without their recent Eurasian admixtures. You must consider only the top triangle with the recent Eurasian admixtures removed.


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I added the circle show the ancient Egyptians closest ethnic affiliations.

You can see when you remove the recent Eurasian admixtures dated to the last 750 years that indigenous Ancient Egyptians were closer to modern African populations (Yoruba, African-Americans, Somali, etc; in that order) than European (CEU) or East Asian populations (CHB). Thus they were indigenous black Africans. Of course here, Yoruba and Somali, etc, are only proxies for Sub-Saharan populations in general. Maybe the Wolof would have and Fst of 0.17, maybe not.

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Fourty2Tribes
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quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Hematite (also called red ochre) has been used by the people of Sahara, Sahel and the Nile Valley to portray themselves for thousands of years before it was used in Dynastic Egypt. It was a symbolic color convention that even Sudanese used on our walls.


Here's a picture of a black man from Swaziland standing next to a Hematite mine and his skin tone matches the red ochre.

 - [Big Grin] [Razz]



The only people with the bean dimple

The goons got one thing right.

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More when recreated on the blind

Because after all
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Ish Gebor
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Yes, finally iTrump aka caveman admits that Ottoman Empire conquered Northeast Africa. And brought Mamluks slaves with them into Northeast Africa. During those days the native population was dens. So, over the last 1000 years the demographic shifted.


http://www.worldology.com/Iraq/ottoman_empire.htm


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http://www.worldology.com/Iraq/turk_mongol_rule.htm


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http://www.worldology.com/Iraq/arab_muslim_caliphate.htm


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quote:

"Karl Butzer has estimated that two areas of greatest population density in dyanstic times were between Luxor{Waset} and Aswan {Elephantine} at the first cataract,and from Medium at the fayum entrance northwards to the apex of the Delta.

In between was Middle Egypt,a geogrpahic buffer zone with a lower population density. It is worth bearing in mind that the total population of egypt at the time the Giza pyramids were built is estimated to have been 1.6 million,compared with 58 million in Ad 1995."

Mark Lehner, Page 7.
The Complete Pyramids

"It is nonetheless probable that settlements were far more dispersed than they were in Upper Egypt, that overall population density was significantly lower, and that the northernmost one-third of the Delta was ALMOST UNDERPOPULATED in Old Kingdom times. In effect, a considerable body of information can be marshalled to show that the Delta was UNDERDEVELOPED and that internal colonization continued for some three millennia, until the late Ptolemaic era."

Source:

http://oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/early_hydraulic.pdf

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
[QB] Punos_Rey


We know that modern Egyptians (are on average) 80% non African and the entrance of this non-African DNA has been documented to 1400 years ago -- when the Arabs conquered Egypt.

He has yet to provide evidence of a mass migration of Eurasians into Egypt prior to the Greek conquest. There is not a single academic that would agree with the laughable contention that Eurasians are descendants of the AE. Not one.

quote:
Originally posted by Punos_Rey:


The supposed mass backmigration of Eurasians into Africa occurred around 3,000 years ago according to the recently corrected Mota study. That's way late into the New Kingdom btw, getting into the Late Period.



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Ish Gebor
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quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
[QB] Punos_Rey


We know that modern Egyptians (are on average) 80% non African and the entrance of this non-African DNA has been documented to 1400 years ago -- when the Arabs conquered Egypt.

He has yet to provide evidence of a mass migration of Eurasians into Egypt prior to the Greek conquest. There is not a single academic that would agree with the laughable contention that Eurasians are descendants of the AE. Not one.

quote:
Originally posted by Punos_Rey:


The supposed mass backmigration of Eurasians into Africa occurred around 3,000 years ago according to the recently corrected Mota study. That's way late into the New Kingdom btw, getting into the Late Period.



Lioness, what does science say?
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R.Havoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
[QB] Punos_Rey


We know that modern Egyptians (are on average) 80% non African and the entrance of this non-African DNA has been documented to 1400 years ago -- when the Arabs conquered Egypt.

He has yet to provide evidence of a mass migration of Eurasians into Egypt prior to the Greek conquest. There is not a single academic that would agree with the laughable contention that Eurasians are descendants of the AE. Not one.

quote:
Originally posted by Punos_Rey:


The supposed mass backmigration of Eurasians into Africa occurred around 3,000 years ago according to the recently corrected Mota study. That's way late into the New Kingdom btw, getting into the Late Period.



Lioness, what does science say?
Science Says Afro Idiots Are Stupid! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
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Ish Gebor
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^ lol another not so surprising dumb response, above. Sadly.


For your best endeavor.

Arab Muslim Caliphate (633-930), Turk/Mongol Rule,Ottoman Empire (1534-1917

http://www.worldology.com/Iraq/turk_mongol_rule.htm

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