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Debunking the absurd claims by Western "Egyptologists" published in Western Media as fact that Pharaoh Tutankhamun was crippled that being the reason why he walked with a stick. This claim is anachronistic at best,a Pseudo historical claim that ignores the evidence left behind by the Ancient Egyptians themselves concerning how the boy king looked like in real life. Articles such as this here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2799418/king-tut-girlish-hips-club-foot- buck-teeth-according-virtual-autopsy.html
I quote "With strong features cast in burnished gold, Tutankhamun’s burial mask projects an image of majestic beauty and royal power. But in the flesh, King Tut had buck teeth, a club foot and girlish hips, according to the most detailed examination ever of the ancient Egyptian pharaoh’s remains. And rather than being a boy king with a love of chariot racing, Tut relied on walking sticks to get around during his rule in the 14th century BC, researchers said."
The researchers who conducted this study are so wrong.I suspect that the main objective for this study was to explain to Europeans and Americans why a perfectly healthy youthful looking boy king like king Tut can be portrayed in Ancient Egyptian Tomb paintings and sculptures walking around with a stick.King Tut was not a cripple . Well these researchers could have prevented themselves from any potential embarrassments in the future if they had bothered to look deep into the source of Ancient Egyptian culture and religion which is AFRICA. Those walking/fighting sticks portrayed in Ancient Egyptian Tomb paintings and sculptures being held by Egyptians are known throughout the African greatlakes region as FIMBO. A Fimbo is used as a status symbol or a gentleman's accessories for those who belong in a herding tribe or a warrior caste that own cattles.Fimbos can be carried by young warriors (Morani),elders,women and even children. King Tut holding a Fimbo symbolizes him being a warrior King just like other Thutmosid Pharaohs . There are two types of Fimbos; 1) GREWIA FIMBOS The light coloured sticks are cut from straight branches of the Grewia spp (Estert). These fimbos vary greatly in thickness and weight and the user will cut a fimbo according to his taste and level of strength. These fimbos are firstly cut and then burned or “roasted” over an open fire. This serves to separate the bark from the wood and to dry the wood without cracking occurring. While the wood is hot and thus pliable the fimbo is straightened by bending it straight. The process is finished after the fimbo has cooled down and straightened. These fimbos are also used as walking sticks by all ages and for cattle herding.
2)ACACIA MALLIFERA AND EBONY FIMBOS The dark coloured fimbos are cut from a straight Acacia mellifera log. The lighter sap wood is removed until the dark core wood is reached. One log usually produces two to three fimbos. These fimbos are then finished with a short sword and event kiually sanded down using broken glass. When the fimbo is done, either cow or goat fat is applied to oil the wood.
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^ The significance of staffs both symbolically and in actual use is just another one of countless pan-African traits of ancient Egyptian culture.
Staffs were emblems of authority in Kemet which is why hieroglyphs for offices of leadership or authority either shows a man holding a staff or seated on a throne. You are correct that these staffs likely originated among pastoral activities or even people wandering the bush areas with staffs for protection.
There were different types of staffs symbolizing different forms of authority. Though I don't know the general mdu neter term for staffs, I do know the names of specific staffs.
The staffs with the rounded blunt heads were called ames staffs and were originally used as weapons but eventually became symbols of courage and leadership.
Perhaps the most famous staff was the crook or heka staff.
The heka was a shepherd's staff used in herding flocks and was also a symbol of leadership.
There is another staff called a mekes which has a nodule in the middle and was used to perry in fighting, though I'm unable to find any pictures of this staff...
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Speaking of which, the pan-African tradition of stick-fighting is also found in Egypt. In Egypt the sport of stick fighting is called tahtib (I suggest you look up past threads in this forum about tahtib).
As for King Tut being a 'cripple', if ancient Egyptian kings were anything like other African (divine) kings, then Tut in order to maintain his position of king had to be physically fit enough to be able to defend his kingdom which apparently he was!: The rich array of objects found in Tutankhamun's tomb speak to the opulence of the Egyptian court and the young king's pampered life. But other items, including numerous throwsticks (sort of non-returning boomerangs), spears, bows and arrows, and chariots--many inscribed with his name and clearly used--attest his athleticism and youthful energy. Today, new evidence of Tutankhamun's reign has emerged that shows he was much more active than was thought, and may have led military campaigns against the Syrians and Nubians before he died.Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ The significance of staffs both symbolically and in actual use is just another one of countless pan-African traits of ancient Egyptian culture.
Staffs were emblems of authority in Kemet which is why hieroglyphs for offices of leadership or authority either shows a man holding a staff or seated on a throne. You are correct that these staffs likely originated among pastoral activities or even people wandering the bush areas with staffs for protection.
There were different types of staffs symbolizing different forms of authority. Though I don't know the general mdu neter term for staffs, I do know the names of specific staffs.
The staffs with the rounded blunt heads were called ames staffs and were originally used as weapons but eventually became symbols of courage and leadership.
Perhaps the most famous staff was the crook or heka staff.
The heka was a shepherd's staff used in herding flocks and was also a symbol of leadership.
There is another staff called a mekes which has a nodule in the middle and was used to perry in fighting, though I'm unable to find any pictures of this staff...
Coming from a pastoralist community myself..I agree with what you are saying. Staffs are used during celebration where they are lifted up as warriors lift them up and make war cries,women ululate in unison..This is very common especially during circumcision and age group rituals.
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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A Fimbo is not similar to a staff..They serve different functions.A staff is only held by Elders or Rulers but a Fimbo can be held by anybody.. Uncircumcised youth, women but mostly warriors..The dark Fimbos cannot be held by women and uncircumcised youth,It is considered a Taboo. But Fimbos are mostly associated with Warriors. A staff has a hooked handle but a Fimbo doesn't. Staffs are known throughout the African greatlakes region as BAKORA.
A beaded Maasai staff and a Maasai beaded bracelet.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Awesome thread. Nice info.
Thanks for appreciating, you are welcome. Parhaps maybe next time we gonna discuss ancient Egyptian and African Nudity on another thread.. Keep in touch.
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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quote:Originally posted by ELIMU: Coming from a pastoralist community myself..I agree with what you are saying. Staffs are used during celebration where they are lifted up as warriors lift them up and make war cries,women ululate in unison..This is very common especially during circumcision and age group rituals.
And exactly what community or culture are you part of, if you mind me asking??
quote: A Fimbo is not similar to a staff..They serve different functions.A staff is only held by Elders or Rulers but a Fimbo can be held by anybody.. Uncircumcised youth, women but mostly warriors..The dark Fimbos cannot be held by women and uncircumcised youth,It is considered a Taboo. But Fimbos are mostly associated with Warriors. A staff has a hooked handle but a Fimbo doesn't. Staffs are known throughout the African greatlakes region as BAKORA.
A beaded Maasai staff and a Maasai beaded bracelet.
Well it depends on your definition of 'staff'. Yours seems to be more narrow. Mine is more broad where a staff is simply a large long stick.
By the way, that beaded staff reminds me of the palm reed staff used by the goddess Seshat or other Egyptians who measure the Nile inundation.
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posted
Wasn't the conclusion that King Tut would have needed a staff to walk around based off his mummy showing signs of club foot? I don't dispute that staffs were important in Egypt and other parts of Africa that inherited a pastoralist legacy. But if his mummy shows signs of club foot, I think his level of physical activity really would have been quite circumscribed.
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^ Yeah, I believe you are correct however having clubbed foot does not mean Tut was an invalid. I think he needed to have some sort of physical fitness to rule the nation. Also, I think when Tut went on war campaigns, he spent most of his time in his chariot.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Nodnarb: Wasn't the conclusion that King Tut would have needed a staff to walk around based off his mummy showing signs of club foot? I don't dispute that staffs were important in Egypt and other parts of Africa that inherited a pastoralist legacy. But if his mummy shows signs of club foot, I think his level of physical activity really would have been quite circumscribed.
No way a cripple can rule any African Nation in ancient times or even become king. One of his cousins or brothers would have been made king instead of him.Even today in Modern Africa it is difficult for a cripple to become president.. Ancient Egyptian Culture and religion was very similar to modern African culture and religion south of the Sahara and great lakes region where most their descendants migrated to.Their Divine kingship customs,religion,rituals e.t.c..So if we just look at other African cultures with similarities to ancient Egyptian culture. We can come to the conclusion that chances for a cripple ever becoming king(Living image of Amun or the sun god on Earth) in Kemet was very slim or simply impossible. Besides we have tomb art and sculptures showing king Tut walking around and doing warrior activities just like his warrior king Theban ancestors of the Thutmosid dynasties. I think people can prescribe all kinds of sickness and disease to a highly deteriorated 3000yr old Egyptian mummy.I am pretty sure the "club foot" was not even evident when the mummy was still fresh.If I was in the shoes of these Pseudo historical Egyptologists maybe I too would have done the same for an appearance on the article of a Science magazine or an historical documentary footage.
Fact is; the descriptions and other evidence left behind by Ancient Egyptians themselves concerning Pharaoh Tutankhamun shows that the boy king was just a normal looking young man.
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Are you aware that the Egyptians hold a ritual jubilee called Heb-Sed for kings to display their prowess? In the ritual the king must run a runway outside his palace back and forth and then shoot a bow and arrow at distant corners of his compound and then prepare and make offerings to the gods. The Heb-Sed usually takes place every generation (30 years) though some kings undergo the ritual more often like once every 3 years to show off their prowess.
King Tut did not live up to 30, but I'm sure he had to perform some part of the Sed ritual to prove his prowess.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ What culture are from, Elimu?
Are you aware that the Egyptians hold a ritual jubilee called Heb-Sed for kings to display their prowess? In the ritual the king must run a runway outside his palace back and forth and then shoot a bow and arrow at distant corners of his compound and then prepare and make offerings to the gods. The Heb-Sed usually takes place every generation (30 years) though some kings undergo the ritual more often like once every 3 years to show off their prowess.
King Tut did not live up to 30, but I'm sure he had to perform some part of the Sed ritual to prove his prowess.
My culture is East Nilotic .I come from the Maasai Nation.I am from Kenya. A ceremony very similar to the Hebsed ceremony is celebrated by Eastern Bantus(highland bantus) all over East Africa. I don't know what name the other bantus call it..The Kikuyu call the Ceremony ITUKA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [QB] A tad bit dubious. Surely, in 3000 years of pharaonic history there were some pharaohs with physical limitations.
Are you kidding me,you think he is cripple just because he is leaning on a stick? In Kenya we call that the Maasai pose..But Ofcourse other pastoral tribes as well have that pose e.g Datooga, Somali, samburu,Rendile,Turkana, karamoja, Dinka,Shilluk e.t.c No there were no pharaohs with physical limitations.It would have been considered an impure thing, an insult to the gods since pharaohs were representations of the gods on earth.They weren't even considered kings but god kings. Even when making sacrifices to the gods in ancient Egyptian as well as other African cultures the sacrificial animal must not have any blemishes or defects so as not to insult the gods. If we go by your logic, then all these folks below are also cripples;
Just cause he leans on a stick placed at his armpit that doesn't make him crippled
If we go by your logic,all these folks are crippled
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What about the fact that you were already told that his mummy has a deformed left foot (also shown on that image where he's holding a walking stick to take weight off his left leg). Are you going to sweep that under the rug too with picture spams of men holding sticks and conjecture about taboos?
EDIT: never mind. You did sweep that under the rug already:
quote:Originally posted by ELIMU: I think people can prescribe all kinds of sickness and disease to a highly deteriorated 3000yr old Egyptian mummy. I am pretty sure the "club foot" was not even evident when the mummy was still fresh.
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^ LOL Seriously though Elimu, you cannot deny that Tutankhamun did have physical ailments. Nobody is saying he was an invalid as all the evidence (his hunting weapons and weapons of war and depictions of battles) all show he was active at least for a person of his condition. He rode on chariots during battles and on boats during hunts but to say he was perfectly healthy is untrue. There is even evidence that he suffered from sickle cell anemia! The primary cause for all of his conditions was his pedigree-- Egyptian kings were famous for incestual breeding which was a custom common in African royalty. In fact DNA tests have revealed that both of his parents were full siblings!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL Seriously though Elimu, you cannot deny that Tutankhamun did have physical ailments. Nobody is saying he was an invalid as all the evidence (his hunting weapons and weapons of war and depictions of battles) all show he was active at least for a person of his condition. He rode on chariots during battles and on boats during hunts but to say he was perfectly healthy is untrue. There is even evidence that he suffered from sickle cell anemia! The primary cause for all of his conditions was his pedigree-- Egyptian kings were famous for incestual breeding which was a custom common in African royalty. In fact DNA tests have revealed that both of his parents were full siblings!
Some African cultures practiced incest among royals some didn't..E.g Ugandan royals(Bunyoro kisses,baganda) but also remember It is an African custom for a man to call his wife or lover "My Sister" as a romantic term of endearment.. Lol..What happened to all the images I just posted????
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
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^ Yes, I know about the use of the word 'sister' as a common form of endearment even for wives is common in Africa. This is why many Egyptologists used to think sibling marriages were common even amongst non-royals because surviving texts show men calling their lovers and wives 'sister'. And I know not all African royals practiced incest, but some did as incest was a practice among divinities and African royals were thought of as divinities.
By the way, I think there was an issue with your google images website so until it is resolved your pictures won't show. The same thing happened to another picture I posted in another thread.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yes, I know about the use of the word 'sister' as a common form of endearment even for wives is common in Africa. This is why many Egyptologists used to think sibling marriages were common even amongst non-royals because surviving texts show men calling their lovers and wives 'sister'. And I know not all African royals practiced incest, but some did as incest was a practice among divinities and African royals were thought of as divinities.
By the way, I think there was an issue with your google images website so until it is resolved your pictures won't show. The same thing happened to another picture I posted in another thread.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yes, I know about the use of the word 'sister' as a common form of endearment even for wives is common in Africa. This is why many Egyptologists used to think sibling marriages were common even amongst non-royals because surviving texts show men calling their lovers and wives 'sister'. And I know not all African royals practiced incest, but some did as incest was a practice among divinities and African royals were thought of as divinities.
By the way, I think there was an issue with your google images website so until it is resolved your pictures won't show. The same thing happened to another picture I posted in another thread.
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quote: Originally posted by Djehuti: "By the way, I think there was an issue with your google images website so until it is resolved your pictures won't show. The same thing happened to another picture I posted in another thread."
I suppose copyright infringement issues..But @ Admin NOW IT SEEMS I CAN'T POST IMAGES AT REPLIES, WHY IS THAT.IS SOMEONE TRYING TO SHUT ME UP?
@Djehuti.. lets be serious though .Not all Egyptian royals were related..I agree one dynasty belonged to one blood line..But other dynasties contained pharaohs with completely different African backgrounds and ethnicities..The incest thing in this aspect doesn't make sense..I suppose maybe to preserve the Theban/Nekhen Matriarchal royal blood reverred by Egyptians of all dynasties.My argument is I don't believe King Tut had a club foot at all.
Let's take a look at his Mummy His feet look fine to me.Most likely the left leg little finger got slightly damaged by those who took out his sandles.But no sign of a club foot though.
Lets look at his statues somebody with a club foot cannot put his club foot flat on the ground.Common sense.
Does these sandles look like they were made for somebody with a club foot? These are the sandles he used in real life.
Who now do you want to believe? these Pseudo historical egyptologists and those who claim king Tut was a crippled ugly white looking boy with a girly hips OR do you choose to believe Ancient Egyptians themselves who left sculptures and paintings of the boy king showing a normal looking athletic young black man.I can believe that he had a buck teeth(overbite or overjet not sure), because it is quite evident from his mummy.Also the trait is very common here in the great lakes region, just look at most Kenyan long distance runners.e.g Samuel Wanjiru , Tegla Loroupe. e.t.c But it seems to me you want to believe this image
Lol! NO THANKS I'll pass! If these egyptologists (Zahi Hawass et al) really wanna impress somebody, let them Publish the real DNA results of King Tut and all Amarna mummies one by one, instead of wasting time cooking up bullshit stories concerning King Tut..I know I speak for most people, when I say we just want to know; who were these people? and where did they come from? That is the most burning question in most people's minds.
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quote:Originally posted by Nodnarb: ^ Out of curiosity, can you name other African countries where royal incest was a thing?
Incest is considered Taboo in Most African cultures..Even those with an oral tradition of migration from Ancient Egypt. However there were incidences among royal families of Kings ascending to the Throne with their sisters, cousins or intermarriages between members of the same dynasties. E.g South Africa, Zimbabwe,Central Africa,Uganda,Tanzania e.t.c Those documented by European explorers include; Monomotapa, Bunyoro,Ankole, Buganda, Shilluk, Zande , Nyanga and.Dahomey. Read the book Royal Incest and Inclusive Fitness Pierre L. Van Den Berghe and Gene M. Mesher American Ethnologist Vol. 7, No. 2 (May, 1980), pp. 300-317 Published by: Wiley on behalf of the American Anthropological Association Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/643593 Page Count: 18
More sources
Daily Monitor: DNA Ugandans related to Egyptians I quote "Female heirs. The Egyptian pharaohs, like the rulers of the Great Lakes kingdoms of East Africa, ascended to their thrones with their sisters or cousins as co-rulers. In Bunyoro and Tooro kingdoms, the sister was called the Rubuga, but is currently called the Batebe. In Buganda kingdom, she was called the Lubuga, now called Nalinya. In Buganda, this custom from antiquity of having female co- heirs is still practised in all cultural succession events"
Wikipedia:Royal Inbreeding I quote "Africa At times, marriage between members of the same dynasty has been common in Central Africa. Marriages between the Swazi , Zulu and Thembu royal houses of southern Africa are common. For example, the daughter of former South African president and Thembu royal Nelson Mandela , Zenani Mandela , in 1977 married Prince Thumbumuzi Dlamini, a brother of Mswati III , King of Swaziland. Examples of historical, mythical and contemporary royal intermarriages throughout Africa include: Mantfombi Dlamini, sister of Mswati III of Swaziland, and Goodwill Zwelithini, King of the Zulus , as his Great Royal Wife (1977) The Toucouleur emperor Umar Tall and the daughter of the sultan Muhammed Bello of Sokoto"
Listverse: 10 royal incest I quote "Various African monarchies practiced dynastic incest, including the Monomotapa of Zimbabwe. Kings were extremely active in polygamy, with one king counting over 3,000 women as wives . His preferred main wives were his sisters or daughters. If anyone who wasn’t king tried to marry his wife or daughter, they were subject to death . The Monomotapa incest tradition is illustrated in the origin story of the Balovedu Tribe’s Rain Queen lineage. The Rain Queen is historically known as a powerful ruler and magician with the power to bring rain or drought to her friends or enemies. Despite the legality of incest within the royal family, the oral tradition implies that the power was given to the first rain queen, Princess Dzugundini, after she birthed a child with her brother (or father, in some stories) and had to flee due to public shame. Rather than kill both the child and the princess, the king gave his daughter rain-making power and arranged for her to escape."
NOTE: These incest incidences only occur in some African royal families. But even among the population customs of those tribes incest was considered a taboo.Even in some instances punishable by death. Many African languages do not even have the term for cousin or distant cousins..All are considered as your sisters or brothers..If I use my own Maasai tribe as an example..All my cousins or distant cousins or those of my age from either my mothers clan or fathers clan are considered my brothers and sisters..This is why I suspect in the case of Ancient Egyptians it was intermarriages between members of the same dynasties but now the distant cousins,cousins,step sisters e.t.c are given the general label as SISTERS.
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quote:Originally posted by Nodnarb: ^ Out of curiosity, can you name other African countries where royal incest was a thing?
In one of the Congo kingdoms, kings may marry their mothers! I am working to post a thread on divine kingship soon, but I am still gathering more sources.
quote:Originally posted by ELIMU: I suppose copyright infringement issues..But @ Admin NOW IT SEEMS I CAN'T POST IMAGES AT REPLIES, WHY IS THAT.IS SOMEONE TRYING TO SHUT ME UP?
No there is either something wrong with the url or website which is the source of the url OR this website. I think it's the latter because I other pictures I posted are not showing either.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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No there is either something wrong with the url or website which is the source of the url OR this website. I think it's the latter because I other pictures I posted are not showing either. Thanks Djehuti, I am guessing you are right.It is really frustrating I hope the Admin fix it sooner.
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
In one of the Congo kingdoms, kings may marry their mothers! I am working to post a thread on divine kingship soon, but I am still gathering more sources I suppose parhaps it is one of those incidences where after the kings death his widowed queen refuses to give up full power to his son's main wife as the new Queen.So she remains as a queen mother but with the full privileges and authority of a queen.It happened in Israel also..I don't think that the king had sex with his own mother..That is a taboo in all African cultures even for royals. But I am not sure, do your research.I hope I get to see it sooner to gain deeper insight.
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quote:Originally posted by Nodnarb: ^ Out of curiosity, can you name other African countries where royal incest was a thing?
Didn't Keita have a whole paper on royal incest and the practice of burying stillborn(?) babies in soil next to trees? Or am I imagining things? Memory is fuzzy. It might also be another author but there is a paper dedicated to discussing these two links between ancient Egypt and various SSA cultures.
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I think I remember now. It was the practice of burying placentas under trees, not stillborn babies.
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