A meeting of more than 200 African kings and traditional rulers has bestowed the title "king of kings" on Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.
The rulers, wearing gold crowns, sequined capes and colourful robes met in the Libyan town of Benghazi in what was billed as a first of its kind.
Col Gaddafi urged the royals to join his campaign for African unity.
Africa's political leaders are lukewarm about his vision of merging their powers to create a single government.
"We want an African military to defend Africa, we want a single African currency, we want one African passport to travel within Africa," Col Gaddafi told the assembled dignitaries, who come from countries such as Mozambique, South Africa, Ivory Coast and the Democratic Republic of Congo.
The BBC's Rana Jawad in the Mediterranean town of Benghazi says Libya's leader wants them to create a grass-roots movement to press Africa's political leaders to sign up to his vision.
Sheikh Abdilmajid from Tanzania told the BBC that the traditional rulers could play an important role.
"The people believe in the chiefs and kings more than they believe in their governments," he said.
----------- Same story, different news magazine.
Gaddafi named 'king of kings' 29/08/2008 17:36 - (SA)
Benghazi, Libya - Dignitaries from a host of African tribes have bestowed the title "king of kings" on Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi during a visit marking the anniversary of the coup that brought him to power almost four decades ago.
"We have decided to recognise our brother leader as the 'king of kings, sultans, princes, sheikhs and mayors of Africa," said a statement from a forum grouping more than 200 tribal chiefs from Africa late on Thursday.
The tribesmen, many wearing golden crowns, colourful headdresses and robes, also presented Gaddafi with gifts including a "royal chair", an 18th century Qu'ran, ostrich eggs, traditional outfits and local products.
At the meeting in the Mediterranean city of Benghazi east of Tripoli, Gaddafi called his guests to "put pressure on their governments to move towards the unification of Africa and the creation of a United States of Africa."
During their visit, the tribal leaders visited Gaddafi's home in Benghazi which was among a series of targets of US raids in 1986 that killed 40 people including his adopted daughter.
Gaddafi took power after leading a military coup against King Idriss on September 1 1969.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I came across that story in today's newspaper. Very interesting to read
I recently heard too that leaders of the amazon are on the verge of doing the same thing
Posts: 689 | From: Miami Beach, FL | Registered: Mar 2004
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^^^Indeed it is quite interesting. I am curious to see what would be the first action that would take place, if the proposed "United States of Africa" becomes a reality.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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""The people believe in the chiefs and kings more than they believe in their governments,""
I agree with this. Africa is the land of the ancients, they have so much rich history, they have always shunned the political system that was forced upon them by so many forms of colonialization. They do not believe in "the system" because it fails them so much, but they are forced to run with it amidst corruption and racial prejudice just to keep up with the rest of the world, which clearly is not working.
Let parts of Africa return to it's roots, these modern turmoils are infiltrating Africa and causing them to reject their own legacies. African Monarchies should be brought back and they should rebuilt their own kingdoms based on their own ways of life. I actually think having a land build on ancient customs and teachings would bring them more riches than trying to play copycat with the rest of the world if they were to take it that far.
This is an example of Africa rejecting foreign invasion, manipulation and imposition, many will follow. If Amazon is really doing this good for them also. Colonization's time is UP!
Posts: 105 | From: Japan | Registered: Jan 2008
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Anyway ... this sounds like something. But I wouldn't get too excited just yet.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Thats true besides africans have a heart of gold and transparency. The things is Kaddafis initiatives have become too much, all pen on paper, nothing been implemented so far. With all african regimens in power at the moment, their can never be a minor beam of hope for a conjoint african market or any cooperative legislatives.
Colonization time is UP but colonization effects arent yet, Passiveness, ignorance and lack of commitment rooted by colonization still to operate in the continent, which is colonized at the moment by its disloyal corrupted regimes and no one shall change it but africans themselves ( no offense, iam Egyptian and African)
Posts: 689 | From: Miami Beach, FL | Registered: Mar 2004
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Sounds like some NWO conspiracy ... but then I thought that was the AU.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:A United States of Africa... cool! But this sounds more like Khadafi's States of Africa.
Indeed, I had the same thought after reading the below quote, it's actually quite telling. Although all of the other African Kings chose Gaddafi to hold the crown as Africa's King of Kings, there must be something these other leaders see in Gaddafi. Interested to see how things unfold. The disposal of colonialism, but will things actually change?
quote:"The BBC's Rana Jawad in the Mediterranean town of Benghazi says Libya's leader wants them to create a grass-roots movement to press Africa's political leaders to sign up to his vision ."
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: A United States of Africa... cool! But this sounds more like Khadafi's States of Africa.
^ cosign. Why so many of Africa's kings feel the need to bow down before Khadafi completely perplexes me. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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It actually shows clearly how AGAINST AFRICAN unity many Africans really are. But at the same token a United States of Africa would include all sorts of African "kings of kings" I would think.
Posts: 8891 | Registered: May 2005
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This is some depressing, disgraceful, demoralizing sh*t!
Okay, so let me get this straight. A number of African "kings" came together --just out of curiosity, how many of these kings have brough prosperity to their people and not just themselves?-- and these self-appointed "dignataries" have chosen a "king of kings" --whatever the hell THAT is!-- and who do they choose?
Do they choose a non-arab/non-muslim? No! Perhaps somebody who represents what is quentessentially African? Of course not! Do they even choose a black man? Nope! Instead they choose some arab, because after all, what could possibly be more African than an arab squatter who owes his allegiance to the Arab League and not the African Union?
This article ought to read "200 of Africa's 'big men' rulers declared to the world that they have sold out." Anyone who thinks this is a "great thing" or is even remotely good for Africa is a fucking fool! This is the first major step by the arabs toward a total takeover of africa. Islam paved the way, now it's time to use their Islamic flunkies and the corrupt and cowardly pretend "leaders" to finish the job. The ONLY hope Africa has now is it's people. If they don't revolt to stop this, you will see not a United States of Africa, but a United States of Arabs.
Anyone who doubts that Africa is firmly in the grip of Islam and that most Africans are into arab-worship, this should be their wake-up call. This is UTTERLY ridiculous! And f*cking disgraceful! And should it gain any traction, it will turn out to be utterly ruinous for Africa with a death toll into the tens of millions once the "unification" process starts. The arabs idea of African Unity is darfur --the arabs unify and kill all the Africas. This latest plot is about solidifying Gadaffi's power, not Africa's
Dr John Henrik Clarke warned about precisely this. He said, "the arabs would de-populate Africa of Africans and replace them with arabs, Europeans and Asians." Look at this group of fools. What more blatant proof would you want that the arab's goal is to lead africa around by he nose until they gain the means to pull a continental-wide Darfur? I know there are some self-hating blacks and undercover arabs in this thread and on these boards who are loving the sound of this. Well, it's going to be up to the African people themselves to stop it. Gadaffi's NEVER lifted a finger to help blacks in Libya, what the hell makes you think he's suddenly become concerned for blacks now? He's put together a rubber-stamp organization whose purpose is to guarantee arab hegemony over ALL of Africa, not just north of the Sahara. This oughta be clear even to the most dense of observers.
If this bullshit gains any traction then Africa is as good as finished. The arabs will simply use their "king of kings" position to enforce continental arabism and that will be the end of it. Every African needs to be opposed to this.
The Africans don't need a small version of a one-world government, wihch is all this plot is. One Nation, Under the Arabs. They don't need and arabs --who, in case some folks here have forgotten are occupiers and colonialists-- to solve their problems either. The best thing the Africans can do is put their own heads together and find the means to be free.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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^^^Good post..... Definitely. You can see it from this quote below. Like Doug M, mentioned also, seems more like it's Gadaffi's states of Africa, he wants the kings to sign up to HIS vision. If you look at the background you can see the Arab peninsula mysteriously added.
quote:The BBC's Rana Jawad in the Mediterranean town of Benghazi says Libya's leader wants them to create a grass-roots movement to press Africa's political leaders to sign up to his vision .
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Excellent point about the arab peninensula. I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out. They're not making any bones about how Africa is to officially become part of the middle east.
I'm not really sure which one has me more depressed: seeing Robert Mugabe give some white chick a suitcase full of cash, or finding out that Gadaffi just got through taking over africa.
If people want to know why Africa isn't respected, why Africans are considered a "child race" or stupid? It's because Africa is like a group of retarded beggars just looking around for anyone they can sell out to. Chinese, Europeans, arabs Maritans. Long as somebody comes along and says "Here's a few bucks, now let me take over!" The African leaders will gladly oblige.
The Japanese, the Australians, the Dutch, the Chinese. All countries and peoples who are stong keep their nations homogeneous --or as much as they can. They do everything they can to limit/eliminate foreign influence, starting with foreign immigration. Africa on the other hand has an Open Door...or is it Open Legs?...policy. What African will say "Africa for the Africans?" What so-called African leader will boldly point out that the arabs are killing Africans and are hostile toward Africa? Could they imagine saying that in front of Gadaffi? Now that tells you right there who's really calling the shots.
This should be a picture of a group of black men kicking Gadaffi's ass for the cameras. Instead, they are happy and smiling. This is how nations die.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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Seeing a mass-sellout like this is unspeakably demoralizing. What the hell were the Zulu wars agasinst the British about? Or the fight againt Mussolini? Or the wars of Independence? What the hell did Africa fight all those struggles for? Apparently, for nothing.
It's bad enough appointing this arab piece of sh*t to be the part of some "African" organization, or putting Gadaffi as the head of even the African Union, but to appoint him "King of Kings." That proves Africa's leaders are pure sh*t. After centuries of foreign rule and a hundred years of learning how to be professional stooges for the whites the Africans have now declared a total surrender. The corrupt and crumbling bastards who built palaces while their people starved didn't know how to govern and couln't be bothered to develop the citizens who could. At last they are now pissing away the greatest opportunity in history and letting in any NON-BLACK foreigner who wants cheap minerals and land. Africa is the ONLY country on the planet that could be totally self-sufficient. But it has "leaders" who hate their continent and it's people more than the whites or arabs ever did. And so Africa dies...not with a bang, but with a whimper. After this I'm not really sure what to say about Africa. They finally united...behind a dirty-ass arab. Because Gadaffi handed out cash, (and no dout plenty of whores and promises of "staff" positions for the "kings" nephews and relatives) and said, "We arabs know better than you. You people need to follow your betters!"
It doesn't matter if these so-called kings are petty rulers of petty fiefdoms (which they surely are!) or if Gadaffi's little scheme ultimately fails, which I hope it does. What matters is that they felt bold enough to even do something like this. The arabs have been coming at Africa for over 1,500 years. Until they are repelled they will keep coming at Africa --economically, politically, religously, militarily. THIS is the reality Africa faces. And what is Africa's response?
Wave the fucking white flag and surrender without a shot being fired. Can you imagine Europe declaring the Italians as "king of kings?" And the Italians are white people. ONLY in Africa can outsiders gain more esteem than a native.
This shames every African on the face of the planet. Calling some arab interloper an African is bad enough, but proudly declaring him "King" over all Africans, even if only for symbolic purposes (and I think we all know Gadaffi wants this to be more than merely ceremonial) is a sign that Africa truly has no hope.
It's leaders are inherently corrupt and it's people are shattered and divided. At this point all they want is find the best master they can, and they'll be content to be slaves at home and third-class citizens abroad.
Unless a miracle comes along (and Africa's never had one of those!) then this could well be the beginning of the end for Africa and the black ancestral homeland.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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Sportbilly, your thoughts are deep, you're definitely hitting a point, that definitely needs to be hit. The rabbit hole gets deeper though. Found two articles of relevance, from 2000, but you can clearly see Gadaffi's plan has been going on for a while. Now in 2008, we see it might be brought out
Libyan bid to link Mid-East and Africa Tripoli skyline Delegates from nearly 70 countries are in Tripoli for the gathering By Frank Gardner in Tripoli
Libya is hosting the first international conference for Arab and African non-governmental organisations.
Delegates from nearly 70 countries have arrived in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, for the three-day gathering. Most of the 700 delegates are from Africa.
The lobby of Tripoli's Bab Al-Bahr hotel, where the delegates are staying, is filled with the sound of a hundred tongues and a kaleidoscope of national costumes.
Tall Mauritanian men in flowing cotton robes mingle with sombre-suited Iraqis. Libyans in embroidered waistcoats stroll beside West Africans in dazzling green pyjama suits.
Women too have crossed continents to be here. Some are Arab and demurely veiled. Others are African and draped in elaborate jewellery.
It is exactly the sort of meeting of delegates from less developed countries that the Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi, is fond of hosting.
But the conference organisers are keen to distance the government's role.
They say this is purely a people's event, aimed at uniting NGOs across the Middle East and Africa.
The event's coordinator, Rafia Al-Madani, told the BBC that delegates would be discussing how to pool their efforts in the fields of education, welfare, youth and human rights.
He said the event's aims were non-political. But he added that it was based on last year's Sirte declaration, which called for African countries to unite.
In recent years, Libya's leader has largely turned his attention away from the Middle East and focused instead on Africa.
The high attendance at this conference shows that interest has been well received by some, even if many delegates here are still unclear as to how much it can actually achieve.
Colonel Gaddafi is trying to rebuild links with the Arab world By Caroline Hawley in Cairo
The Libyan leader, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, has met President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt at the start of regional tour.
A Libyan official said they discussed efforts to unite Arab and African countries.
Over the past few years, Colonel Gaddafi has concentrated his foreign policy on developing Libyan ties with African, rather than Arab, states.
This is his first such tour since he turned his sights on Africa; angered at Arab refusal to break the air embargo against Libya.
With UN sanctions against Libya now suspended, Colonel Gaddafi could have flown to Egypt.
Ever the maverick though, he chose to drive across the desert instead. His well-guarded motorcade swept across the Egyptian-Libyan border and on to meet President Mubarak.
Water projects
There has been talk of Colonel Gaddafi visiting a giant Egyptian project to green the desert in the south of the country.
Libyan aquifer Libya has some of the worlds most ambitious irrigation projects Libya is trying to do the same thing with its man-made river, and water is likely to remain on the agenda when Colonel Gaddafi goes on to Jordan.
There, he is expected to discuss how Libya might help Jordan pump water from an aquifer in the south of the country to the capital, Amman.
As Colonel Gaddafi seeks a greater role in international affairs, he seems now to be patching up ties with fellow Arabs.
More than a year after sanctions were suspended, both he and they now appear ready to forgive.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Putting politics aside — objectively speaking, the Arabian plate — from the Arabian peninsula all the way to Syria — constitutes a chunk of the Great Rift Valley that moved away from the rift that is still largely attached to the mainland Africa. Linguistically, this same region is an extension for a language family that originates in Africa: the Afrasan (Afro-Asiatic) language phylum. This linguistic distribution is paralleled by genealogy, primarily through PN2-derived clades from the Y-DNA standpoint, predominated by E1b1b clades, usually in co-existence with the predominant Y DNA lineage of the region, which happens to be Hg J. Interestingly, another marker is found in the Dead Sea, which until recently, has been restricted to Africa: R1*-M173!...and again — interestingly, in co-existence with E1b1b markers...
"From Flores et al., I get the sense that it is certainly plausible that R1*-M173 bearers diffused from Africa into the Levant via the Nile Valley corridor, likely sometime in the Upper Paleolithic. From Flores et al. we have:
Intrapopulation differentiation in Jordan
As Bedouin tribes had an important role in the colonization of southeast Jordan, it could be that the haplography composition of the Dead Sea reflected genetic affinities to them, but that is not the case. The most striking characteristic of the Dead Sea sample is the high prevalence of R1*-M173 lineages (40%), contrasting with the lack of them and of its derivatives R1b3-N269 in Bedouin from Nebel et al. (2001) and its low frequencies in Amman. It is worth mentioning that until now, similar frequencies for R1*-M173 have only been found in northern Cameroon (Cruciani et al. 2002). The possibility that the Dead Sea and Cameroon are isolated remnants of a past broad human expansion deserves future studies.
Interestingly, when the molecular heterogeneity of the G6PD locus was compared between the Amman and the Dead Sea samples, a lower number of different variants and a higher incidence of the African G6PD-A allele was detected in the latter (Karadsheh, personal communication). Another singularity of the Dead Sea is its high frequency (31%) of E3b3a-M34, a derivative of the E3b3-M123 that is only found in 7% Bedouins (Cruciani et al. 2004). Until now, the highest frequencies for this marker (23.5%) had been found in Ethiopians from Amhara (Cruciani et al. 2004). On the contrary, most Bedouin chromosomes (63%) belong to the haplography J1-M267 (Semino et al. 2004) compared with 9% in the Dead Sea. All these evidences point to the Dead Sea as an isolated region perhaps with past ties to sub-Saharan and eastern Africa.
Strong drift and/or founder effects might be responsible for its anomalous haplogroup frequencies.
This plausibility is suggested by the support provided by the fact that these chromosomes appear relatively more common in Africa, particularly in Cameroon, and other genetic indicators as that provided by the authors above, exemplified by the distribution and frequency pattern of the African-specific G6PD-A allele [under selective pressure of malarial resistance] on the X-chromosomes of Jordanian samples in association with that of the distribution and frequency pattern of R1*-M173. E-M34 distribution and frequency pattern in these samples may well also factor into any broader perspective of African-Levantine ties of the populations in question." - Details: Link.
R1*-M173 has not been located elsewhere outside of Africa AND the Dead Sea region [albeit save for small occurrence in the Omani test sample, to be technical] of the Arabian plate.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
It's several years now that Khadafi has been talking about continetal unity. It is a good idea provided that it is implemented from the ground up.
This would mean first of all regional integration, free movement of peoples, regional passports, single currencies[Africa does not need more than 1 or 2].
This would also mean the building of regional infrastructural research centres, universities, medical reserach centres, etc. Item: the late president of Zambia had a stroke while at the AU meeting in Egypt. His neocolonial advisers quickly flew him to France for treatment. He died. Maybe if they had the confidence to treat him in a nearby African hospital, he might have survived. Institutions such as state-of-the-art hospitals are what Khadafi and other oil-producing African nations could have long embarked on. But they have not. I say rhetoric is cheap. It costs more to put your money on your rhetoric.
One of the reasons why Africa makes little progress in terms of real economic and geograpical unity is that almost all of Africa's states are like the now abolished Bantustans of South Africa. They are all practically beholden politically and economically to France, Britain, Portugal, Germany and the U.S. And in cases where the Europeans want to punish what they consider "rogue behaviour" they act in unison as the European Union.
There is the silly belief that the British Commonwealth and the French Communaute should be maintained. There are even what are called "Commonwealth Games" to maintain this humiliating relationship. On the contrary, those states that were under Soviet sway during the days of Soviet Empire, have all cut links with the Russian Federation, and see themselves as completely Western.
One important problem in all this is the linguistic divide in Africa. A simple solution would be to create an official language for contintal usage but maybe Africa's linguists are too lazy or too timid to attempt such. After all, Hebrew was a "dead' langauge for centuries before being revitalised and taught as the language of Israel after 1948.
But the main question is: how useful would all those kings and chiefs be for a modern Africa? I have my doubts.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Just because the white people in your country have told you that you are half a man and inferior, doesn't mean you have to take your psychological frustrations out on Africans.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: There is the silly belief that the British Commonwealth and the French Communaute should be maintained. There are even what are called "Commonwealth Games" to maintain this humiliating relationship.
This is what makes me sick. Literally.
When I hear Nigerians talking about it as if it's something positive, I want to give them a heavy handed slap with the BACK OF MY HAND.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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sportbilly aka the beatdown black american wrote: ----------------------------------------- Nope! Instead they choose some arab -----------------------------------------
Who are you to determine who is and who is not an African?
He looks like Smokey Robinson to me. LOL : )
See folks this is an example of a black american who has been mentally sodomized by the y man. This boy believes in the true negroe.
Po thang. I guess you can't help it though. You're use to obeying whatever your white owners tell you to believe.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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sportbilly ok so you say why didn't they choose a non-arab - fair enough (Although North Africa is predominantly arabic speaking - that includes Black Arabs- arabs come in all colours) But you also bring the point of why couldn't they pick a non-muslim - which in your word's would mean somone who does represent "what is quentessentially African"
So someone who isn't Muslim - MOST probably this would be either Atheist (which is a minority in a continent which has many indegnious beliefs and superstitions), Christian or a follower of an Indegnious religion (and there isn't just one for the whole of Africa - it can even vary from village to village let alone country, so isn't reperesentive of all africans either)
Don't forget Islam has a Lot of history in Africa -it is about 50 or 60% in Africa - Africa's most POPULATED country NIGERIA - is (just about) predominantly Muslim and this is a NON ARAB state.
Timbuktu was once a centre of learning and renowned within the Islamic world.
Islam first came to Africa - Abbysinia through a small group of Muslims seeking refuge from persecution from the Arab pagans - not through conquest. One of the earliest followers of Muhammad was Bilal who was a former Abbysinian slave who converted - and later became the first person to give the call to prayer.
Islam has a lot of history with Africa - not all conquest and slavery as you may think. Even Hajar - the Egyptian bondsmaid of Abraham - mother to Ishmael - from whom Arabs - especially the Hijazi Arabs claim descent.
Posts: 121 | From: www.egyptianliving.com | Registered: Aug 2008
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I smell a bait. LOL You guys are pathetic, a BBC article covers some dinosaur kings and over blows Khadafis importance and role on the continent and you losers go buzerk! LOL Like the Mirror article trying to appeal to anti-Chinese sentiment, this article is clearly aimed at anti-Arab sentiment. And oh my, have they come out in all their stupidity!
The asinine nature of sportbilly comment about Khadafi "just got through taking over africa" can only be appreciated when we consider the fact that it is western/Christian/white Jewish domination that has been the norm since at least early 1800s. And today: who finances the AU? Arabs? Who controls DRC's vast mineral wealth? Arabs? Who controls southern Africa's arable land and diamond fields, Arabs? Who has the international clout (IMF Wolrd bank)and power to enact sanctions against a black African country and destroy a genuine movement towards economic independence? Arabs? You fools need a reality check.
I agree, Africa needs to revise her immigration laws as Africa's wealth is now attracting other races eager to cash in as whites have done for so long. But I would love for sportbilly to explain to us how he would expel a religion, Islam, and Arabs (a language) from Africa if he were a head of state. I remember this being his "solution" for problem of whites in Africa: expell them all. LOL
Child grow up. Like the market, Islam and Christianity are realities we must face. Marxism and an Arab free Africa are pipe dreams.
What Ghaddafi proposes is merely an echo of what Garvey visualized long before him anyway. So childish radicalism aside, what we should do is take the good from he says and use it to our benefit. This is what intellegent people do. Not revert to irrational isolationism.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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u are so true. I can't even believe this guy actually thinks Ghaddafi and all his might, lol is planning to arabise and take over the entire African continent.
He is making out that Ghaddafi has got the Arab League behind his back - does he even know how DIVIDED the Arab League is? they can't even solve their own problems - Look at Palestine, look at Iraq, look at Lebanon! They can't agree on anything and Libya always get into petty arguments with Saudi Arabia in the AL conferences etc. Ghaddafi is basically turning away from Arab Unity because he can see it is getting no where and is turning to Africa - not that its any easier mind you.
Posts: 121 | From: www.egyptianliving.com | Registered: Aug 2008
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Akoben-- I generally like your posts on ancient Egypt and find your messages enlightening. However, since you decided to be condescending I only feel it right to return the favor.
Now, I know they don't have common sense in your neck of the woods, but I say this in the hope they at least have ears. Here's more of my wasted effort.
There's this little thing called "foresight." It means taking the information at hand and extrapolating what future events will be. Where the behavior of the arabs is concerned this is easy. They've been doing the same barbaric thing for the last 3,000 years. What part of this are you not understanding? Nobody said the arabs have Africa RIGHT NOW, but given their behavior for say the last 1,500 YEARS what makes you think they've stopped wanting to own Africa in the future? What's this got to do with Papa Gadaffi? He is an arab (perhaps somebody told you he's black, maybe that he's even Smokey Robinson, but trust me, he's an arab) he always has been an arab and always will be. Arabs don't like Africans. Go to Mecca or any arab country if you doubt this. He's done NOTHING --that means ZERO!-- on behalf of blacks. So, who can extrapolate that with such a dismal track record he's suddenly found religion, deicided to wash his hands of his arab familty members an focus on an Africa First policy? This will begin with talk of Africa First and end with Gadaffi first. I hope your empty rhetoric about this being a group of old leaders and BBC propaganda is true. Problem is I've seen this stunt before. Japan called it the Co-Prosperity Sphere. In truth it's the thin end of the wedge.
Now onto your "points." I never said get RID of Islam. As Dr Ben Jochanan wisely obserived, Islam is an idea. You can't fight an idea. Nor do I want to. It's not Islam that I oppose, but rather the fact it's become a thinly-velied form of "arabism." I've always maintained get rid of the ARABS --I'm an atheist, so I'm no fan of ANY religion, but I couldn't care less about Islam. Is a purge like this feasible? Hmmm, let's look at recent history and see. Look at how the huge increase in violence in South Africa is causing whites to self-deport to Australia, Europe etc. I see white colonialism being resisted by the MASSES and this fact is driving the agenda's of the self-interested puppets in these capitals. White power in Africa is slowly but surely being purged. Please try to keep up on current events dear, I so hate repeating myself. Since the whites are on the way out I have to ask what is being done about the arabs? Appeasement, that's what. Now, am I calling for open war? You'd pee your clean little panties if I answered that directly so let me give a less intimidating answer. I call for a "vigorous action in Africa's self-interest toward reestablishing a pre-colonial status quo." Yes, that will of a neccessity mean less whites and GASP! less arabs. But since the urbs alreayd have their barren wasteland of arabia I have NO problem with depopulating the continent of them. Hope your shorts are still unsoiled after that.
Will this happen? It depends; on whether the blacks understand what they're up against and decide to fight for what's theirs. They have no problem fighting each other to extinction in the Rwanda, the Congo or elsewhere. It's no stretch at all for four or five true national leaders to gather the people to fight the arabs. The only problem is marshalling the resolve.
History is repeating itself. And with the same cast of characters no less. Dr Clarke pointed out that in antiquity the Africans turned to the arabs precisely to get the white powers (Rome/Greece) off their backs. We know how that turned out. Sorry if we can't all hide our heads in the sand but some of us prefer seeing things as they truly are.
Perhaps you think of Africa as a place where there's room for everyone of every race, creed, color and religion. Watch a lot of TV, I see. Well I don't! I only see room for the Africans, and even then only for those who know and accept what is in Africa's best interests. You say, it's "radicalism." No it's common sense. Perhaps you've heard of it.
If anyone needs to "grow up" it's you. You're not a "child," (I assume) yet you're talking like a baby. Curling into a ball and saying "what will be will be" is not maturity, it's a suicide pact. Take the pacifier out of your mouth and stop the Pollyanna view you have. Africa has no friends. I know they didn't teach you that on the playground but in the real world of adults that's the sad reality. Do you believe Gadaffi intends to see the Africans able to resist Islam should the winds of religious perogative change? Perhaps he'll favor the Africans pushing back arab expansion? Or do you fantasize that Papa Gadaffi will support enforcing a just peace in Darfur, Ethiopia and the Congo? You're a liar and a damned fool if you say you do believe that. The arabs goals are the exact OPPOSITE of the Africans. Who's side do you think Col Momor stands on? When you answer that question you'll understand which of us is on the right side of the issue and which one is living in a dream world. Gadaffi is no more an "echo" of Garvey than Bush's "Ownership Society" is an echo of Malcolm's "Black Proprietor" vision. If you can't see that then you're more blind than that gallery of stooges Gadaffi had pimping him to the black world.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by sportbilly: I never said get RID of Islam. I've always maintained get rid of the ARABS. Is this feasible? Hmmm, let's look at recent history and see. Look at how the huge increase in violence in South Africa is causing whites to self-deport to Australia, Europe etc.
You have to compare populations and demographics here, you are talking about a country - South Africa - which had a minority of powerful whites...
with a large geographical region (North Africa) which is PREDOMINANTLY Arab - the most populated ARAB state is situated in AFRICA - EGYPT.
The country with the second largest population of Arabic speakers is ALGERIA. The third is MOROCCO.
Arabic is a major language in Africa and many people identify themselves as ARAB if they speak it as their mother tongue. Even in Somalia it is widley spoken and understood and it isn't the principle language there.
you see the GREEN in the image? you are basically calling to rid Africa of that entire populace. And Remember there are BLACK Arabs too like in Sudan and Mauritania.
So is this feasible you asked? hmmm indeed.
Before you answer this though - you must know that Arabic is the most spoken language in the African continent Check some figures:
50 most spoken languages in Africa 2005 estimation (speakers in millions) Total African population in 2005: 850 millions
Are you suggesting a Holocaust against all Arabs (both arab and afro-arab) from the continent?
Posts: 121 | From: www.egyptianliving.com | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sportbilly: I never said get RID of Islam. I've always maintained get rid of the ARABS. Is this feasible? Hmmm, let's look at recent history and see. Look at how the huge increase in violence in South Africa is causing whites to self-deport to Australia, Europe etc.
You have to compare populations and demographics here, you are talking about a country - South Africa - which had a minority of powerful whites...
with a large geographical region (North Africa) which is PREDOMINANTLY Arab - the most populated ARAB state is situated in AFRICA - EGYPT.
The country with the second largest population of Arabic speakers is ALGERIA. The third is MOROCCO.
Arabic is a major language in Africa and many people identify themselves as ARAB if they speak it as their mother tongue. Even in Somalia it is widley spoken and understood and it isn't the principle language there.
Are you suggesting a Holocaust against all Arabs (both arab and afro-arab) from the continent?
WHAT AN UTTERLY STUPID MAP FOR STUPID PEOPLE.
THE MAP DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT, FOR EXAMPLE: THE FACT THAT *ALL* THOSE WHO SPEAK ENGLISH IN NIGERIA ALSO SPEAK ONE OR MORE NATIVE LANGUAGES...
LOOK AT THE SIMPLE MINDED TRICK OF PAINTING A WHOLE COUNTRY (NIGERIA) RED AND HOW IT IMPLIES ENGLIGH IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE SPOKEN IN THAT COUNTRY. AS IF 200 "TRADITIONAL LANGUAGES" ARE NOT BEING SPOKEN IN THAT ONE COUNTRY.
ONLY FOOLS AND HORSES.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
here play around with some other maps results more of less the same. Just broadens that languages into families - Arabic being from the Afro-Asiatic families but this will include others like Amharic etc, but then the other languages will be classified under their families too.
quote:Originally posted by EgyptianLiving*Com: And the map from wiki which is titled OFFICIAL languages may give you a clue since the official language of Nigeria is English.
WHO GIVES A DAMN WHAT YOU OR ANY OTHER MUPPET THINKS IS OFFICIAL. STUFF YOUR CLUE UP YOUR ARSE. MY LANGUAGE WHICH IS YORUBA, IS ONE OF THE 3 OFFICIAL LANGUAGES OF NIGERIA:
WA-ZO-BIA WHICH STANDS FOR "COME" IN YORUBA, HAUSA AND IGBO RESPECTIVELY ARE THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGES OF NIGERIA. YOU MIGHT WANT TO WRITE THAT DOWN SOMEWHERE.
ENGLISH IS THE MAIN "ADMINISTRATIVE" LANGUAGE IN NIGERIA. THOUGH IT IS NOT THE ONLY ONE BEING USED ADMINISTRATIVELY. THAT MEANS IT IS USED IN SCHOOLS, IN GOVERNMENT "PAPERWORK" (THOUGH MOST CIVIL SERVANTS TODAY CAN BARELY SPEAK ENGLISH) AND MOSTLY IN COMPANIES OWNED BY WESTERNERS, AS WELL AS (ABOUT 50% OF) CHURCHES AND IN "FOREIGN" AFFAIRS.
*EVERY OTHER PLACE* IN NIGERIA (CLUBS, HOME, PUBLIC SCHOOLS, ON THE STREETS, BARBER SHOPS, CHURCHES, NIGERIAN-OWNED BUSINESSES, CEREMONIES, OTHER EVENTS E.T.C) THE *OFFICIAL* LANGUAGE IS THE PRE-DOMINANT WAZOBIA LANGUAGE OF THE REGION OR BROKEN-ENGLISH (IN THE 5 BIGGEST CITIES ONLY).
IF YOU WALK NIGERIA FROM TOP TO BOTTOM, RARELY, WILL YOU HEAR ENGLISH BEING SPOKEN. IN FACT, THE CLOSEST LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH *MOST* NIGERIANS CAN SPEAK IS BROKEN-ENGLISH.
STICK THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Bro, no one is denying that there are no native languages in Nigeria, who said there isn't?
And as I said how does this change the bigger picture here? You are just conveniently sidestepping from my main point, which is Arabic language and Arabs as a people in the African continent. And Arabic having the most speakers.
I am just waiting for sportsbilly to explain to me how his final solution for the Arabs of Africa is going to come to effect. Especially considering out of the Arab speaking world the top 3 speaking populations are in Africa... 5th place going to Sudan...
Posts: 121 | From: www.egyptianliving.com | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
ENGLISH IS *NOT* THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF NIGERIA.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
This is really just a petty issue here. Although as you said so many people cannot speak it, still in name it's "official" (I didn't say most spoken) language is English. I don't care how much you want to argue about who speaks what in what bar, barber shop, church or nigerian business. But in name and for official affairs its English.
Just like saying Somalia is a member of the Arab League - but its primary language is Somali
But don't blame me, blame the ones who colonised Nigeria, the British - not the Arabs or anyone else.
Posts: 121 | From: www.egyptianliving.com | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
I have mixed feelings about Qaddafi. I do know from an AA perspective, Qaddafi was the only African leader to launch emotional and financial support for AA's. If i recall in the 90's he offered over a billion dollars to the cause.
Politcal or not, it's the only gesture of unity and support i've known from any African leader, Arab or Non-Arab. So i can't really hate on him.
Posts: 142 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
^ I would actually agree. Also even though he probably not "african" phenotypically speaking, he seems to be an "african" culturally. Take that for whatever its worth.
In any case, he seems to really be the only one "with a clue" in regards to africa policy and pan-africanism in general.
A united african "front" so to speak would be great for common market purposes, the flow of goods and services and establishing security and stability throughout the continent.
Just my armchair analysis anyways Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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------------------------- Also even though he probably not "african" phenotypically speaking -------------------------
What is an african phenotypically?
Let me guess you're another psychologically beatdown black american negro who obeys his white owners.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
The point is this for those who don't get it. A united states of Africa was supposed to benefit all Africans, but ESPECIALLY BLACK AFRICANS first and foremost. It does not seek to destroy or eradicate Arabic speakers or Islam, but the point is that Arabic and Islam ARE destroying Africa. Look at Sudan. Look at Mauritania. Therefore, before ANY United States of Africa can be established, SUCH THINGS as Arabic genocide and Arab slavery against African blacks MUST CEASE. The point of African unity is to benefit ALL Africans not make it easier for SOME AFRICANS to benefit while the rest CONTINUE to suffer.
Like others have said, what are these "so called" leaders doing for their people RIGHT NOW? Why do they need Khaddafi or anyone else to do what they need to do for their own people? Why is that so god damn complex? What you mean to tell me after being on earth for over 200,000 years Africans don't know how to put foot in ass, food on the table or clothes on their backs for themselves so they can live? What the f*ck? I mean these guys wear stars and crescents on their head pieces and togas symbolizing age old wisdom, but somehow NEED somebody else to lead them? They can't smell what's cooking and realize that THEY are the one's being served? I mean what is the point of talking about the glory of ancient kingdoms when you don't even control your OWN turf? No wonder they don't get respect from your OWN women. THAT is the problem there, not Khaddafis egotistical desire to be Africa's "king of kings". Everyone knows Khaddafi is a highly self centered type person and sees himself as a larger than life figure, so his actions should not be shocking. But the United States of Africa is not about the goals of a lone egomaniac but the well being of Africa AS A WHOLE. No such thing can happen as the result of the ambitions of a egomaniac. It can ONLY happen as a result of a focus on the SHARING of ideas and SHARED communication and organization across among ALL African leaders. Anything else is bound to be a disaster of immense proportions.
Posts: 8891 | Registered: May 2005
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------------------------------------ His usual caterwauling transvestite hysteria ------------------------------------
Anyone notice how its always the beatdown black american negroes who always whine and cry about the y man but are the first ones repeating their deranged propagandic lies even when its obvious that what they say are propagandic lies.
* First its the Chinese were banning blacks at the Olympics.
* Then its Ethiopians look like white people.
* Then its the mixed negroes of Mali, Mauritania, Niger and the rest of the Sahara lording over the true negroes.
Now its...............
* Blacks in Darfur being massacared by Arabs
* Blacks are slaves in Mauritania.
Now I defy anyone to tell me that the items that Doug has posted are not progaganda and are not false as well.
Doug you are one sad caterwauling negro. You are the white boy's fantasy come true. A negro that believes and spouts of any deranged race propaganda that he hears.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
^ Any information that is propagated is propaganda, you stupid fool.
Propaganda defined: information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
What point are you trying to make? None. You're just running your diarrhea mouth as usual.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Issues that must be addressed before any sort of United States of Africa can be formed:
quote: Boubacar Messaoud remembered strolling from the flatlands of Mauritania toward the southern town of Rosso, a watermelon poised on his head. Beyond a riverbank, he could see a row of children in a yard. Messaoud, then 7, stopped to find out what was going on, with the pure curiosity of a child.
He found out that the children were being signed up for school. Messaoud, the son of slaves who toiled in the fields of landowners, recalled that he was still unaware of the privations separating him from others.
Among a knot of parents, Messaoud noticed the cousin of his family's owner and asked him to help him enroll, too. "I can't," the man replied. "What will your master say?"
Messaoud put down his watermelon and cried.
The ancient tradition of slavery endures in Mauritania, although it was officially abolished in the 1980s. There are roughly half a million slaves among the country's population of 3.3 million, and at least 80 percent do not have access to a formal education, Messaoud said. Many remain illiterate.
Messaoud was in Washington this month to speak at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars and to lobby legislators on the issue, with assistance from the Open Society Institute, which promotes civil society and democratic institutions, and London-based Anti-Slavery International.
Messaoud, who founded the anti-slavery group SOS Slaves in 1995, has waged many battles on behalf of slaves since that day more than 50 years ago when he faced his first obstacle to breaking the shackles.
The French principal inspecting the clutch of eager students outside the school asked why young Messaoud was sobbing. The principal shamed the slave master's cousin into registering Messaoud, who became the first in his family to go to school. He went on to college and became an architect with the help of scholarships and an uncle who ran a butchering business on the side after his farming chores were finished.
Messaoud, 63, remembered the thrill and promise of possibility on his first day of school. "I relished the change from laboring in the fields, sowing seeds and tearing off acacia branches to build barriers fencing in the land," he said. Until then, rare childhood joys had included flopping around in the water to fish by hand. Unlike Mauritania's capital, Nouakchott, which is ringed by ribbons of desert and sand dunes, Rosso has a river running through it, cornfields and rice paddies.
But Messaoud also remembered being bullied and dismissed by classmates as inferior. "When you go out in mixed society, life is hard," he said.
Slavery has been perpetuated in Mauritania by the persistence of tradition, distorted notions of religious obligation and a reluctance by some law enforcement agents to apply the law, especially in rural areas. Slaves are unaware that they are entitled to equal rights and don't know how to seek justice, so their bondage continues, Messaoud said.
quote: The Mauritanian government must take additional measures to ensure a new law criminalizing slavery has an effect, human rights activists say.
"The new law is a very positive first step. It is only a first step though," said Romana Cacchioli, Africa Program Coordinator for the British nongovernmental pressure group, Anti-Slavery International. "We don't eradicate slavery just by introducing a law."
On Aug. 8, Mauritania's National Assembly unanimously adopted a law criminalizing slavery, which continues to exist in Mauritania in both traditional and contemporary forms. The law, passed by the Senate on Aug. 22, makes slavery punishable by 5-10 years in prison. It marks the first time in Mauritanian history that slaveholders have been sanctioned.
However, in the wake of the International Day for the Remembrance of the Slave Trade and its Abolition on Aug. 23, local and international organizations are calling on the government to do more to give the law real meaning for the estimated half million slaves in Mauritania.
"Accompanying measures are necessary so that this law is not forgotten—so that it actually contributes to the emancipation of former slaves," said Mamadou Moctar Sarr, executive secretary of the forum of national human rights organizations in Mauritania.
"It's not too soon to start talking about the next steps that should be taken," said Julia Harrington of the Open Society Justice Initiative, an international program for law reform. "The existing law is not really going to be effective all by itself," she told IRIN from Nouakchott, where she was meeting with N.G.O.'s to discuss how best they could lobby the government. Other Steps Are Necessary
N.G.O.'s are asking for a monitoring and implementation mechanism that would apply the law, investigate allegations of slavery, mediate the release of slaves, and award compensation.
"The passage of this law is incredibly important and symbolic, but there's still a lack of clarity about what its practical effect is going to be," Harrington said.
... Longstanding Practice
Slavery has existed for centuries in Mauritania, a Sahelian country that falls geographically and culturally between Arab North Africa and black sub-Saharan Africa. The enslavement of the black Arabic speakers (Haratines) is not limited to the upper class white Moores (Berber-Arabs) but also exists among black Africans, mostly of the Halpulaar and Soninké ethnic groups.
Prevalence of the internationally banned practice is hard to quantify. One estimate by the Open Society Justice Initiative places the number of slaves and former slaves at 20 percent of the population – or about 500,000 people – but the organization says the numbers are impossible to confirm. According to most estimates, the Haratine cast—slaves, former slaves, or the descendants of slaves—make up between 40-50 percent of the Mauritanian population, although the government has not officially released results from the last census.
Forms of slavery in Mauritania range from people who live independently but cannot get married without their master's permission to people who "don't get a single bit of food unless it comes from their master's hands, spend their lives looking after their masters, and get beaten every day," according to the Justice Initiative's Harrington.
Moorish slaves Mauretania (Haratine or descendants of the original Mauritanian Zenaga Berbers):
quote: Black Maures
Black Maures distinguish themselves from "black Africans" to emphasize their cultural affinities with white Maures and their cultural distance from sub-Saharan Africa. In most cases, their forebears were incorporated into Maure society as slaves. Maure society continued to accept the institution of slavery even after independence in 1960, but it customarily distinguished among three types of servile status: full slaves, part-slaves, and former slaves now freed, called harratin (sing., hartani). Conditions of servitude varied from benevolent to callous and cruel. White Maures had full rights over their slaves, including the right to sell or relocate them. Slaves sometimes earned or were granted their freedom.
Slavery has been outlawed several times, most recently in 1980. The term for slave, abd, was officially replaced with the term for freedman, hartani, but black Maures continued to be considered a slave class. Their status and role in Maure society have changed little. Many Maures continued to hold slaves and exercise their traditional prerogatives even after official decrees outlawed these practices.
Islamic law requires Muslim slaveholders to free their slaves by the fifth generation. Freedmen, however, usually remained in the camp of their former master and filled the same servile role. Whether as slaves or freedmen, black Maures tended their masters' animals, acted as household servants, worked in the palm groves or millet fields, or gathered the crop of gum arabic.
Note of course black Maure is silly term to begin with as Maure means black and the orignal Maures of MAUREtania were ALL BLACK going back to prior to the Islamic invasions. They were still primarily black up into the 16th century, when a new invasion of Arabs came into Mauretania and implemented the form of slavery seen today. Most of this came about AFTER the Moors were exiled from Spain.
quote: Zenaga and Mauritania Mauritania deserves some attention this week. On the rare occasions when it makes Western headlines, it's generally for slavery or famine, but this week it's distinguishing itself in a rather nobler fashion: holding its first free presidential elections. This is all the more remarkable because it comes some months after a military coup deposing the dictator who ruled Mauritania for 21 years, Maaouya Ould Taya; is it possible that a coup leader actually wants to step down in favour of an elected government? One can but hope that the appearance corresponds to the reality...
Anyway, in commemmoration of this event, I will talk a little about Zenaga this week. Zenaga is the nearly-extinct Berber language of Mauritania. Until about five hundred years ago it was spoken throughout most of the country; its ancestor would have been the language of the Almoravids. However, after the main Berber tribe, the Lamtuna, was defeated by the Arab Beni Ma`qil, most tribes gradually shifted to Hassaniya Arabic, which itself came to contain numerous Zenaga loanwords. The "marabout" tribes, those specialising in Islamic religious learning, retained Zenaga longest, and to this day it continues to be used, at least by the elderly, in a few areas near the southern Atlantic coast. It is remarkably divergent from other Berber varieties, due partly to a number of sound shifts (x > k, l > dj) and partly to a rather different vocabulary, incorporating words rare elsewhere in Berber along with Wolof and Pulaar loanwords. In addition to influencing Hassaniya Arabic, it has also contributed a number of loanwords to the Azer dialect of Soninke, and several words - notably the words for three of the five prayer times, and some religious holidays - to Wolof. Catherine Taine-Cheikh has been doing some documentation of it.
At least one of the few books on this language is available online: Le Zénaga des tribus sénégalaises, by General Faidherbe - although, chillingly, the author dedicates it to the genocidal mass murderer King Leopold II.
posted
^ Doug, the fundamental problem is illiteracy. These men can quite logically be registered as mentally disabled.
That's a fact. Ignorance to a certain level, where a person cannot compete with other humans is a disability.
HOW DOESN ONE ORCHESTRATE AN AFRICA-WIDE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMME THAT CIRCUMVENTS THE *ESTABLISHED* SYSTEMS THAT PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING???
^ This is the question that must be answered.
Give a man a fish to eat, and next week he's broke and reaching for your throat. Teach him how to fish, and next week he *may* bring you a boatload of fish in thanksgiving...Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Your "busy-ness" attitude determines your potential for innovation, creativity, even genius, and success in your path.
There are two basic "busy-ness" attitudes which I call the "kitten" and the "monkey" because of how each animal deals with stress and change:
If a small kitten is confused or in danger, it will do nothing but mew until its mother comes and carries it to safety. By contrast, a baby monkey will run to its mother and jump on her back at the first sign of trouble. The baby monkey then rides to safety, hanging on for itself.
Africans, Blacks and anyone who finds himself/herself in a disadvantaged situation (because we don't get to CHOOSE who we are at birth) NEED to adopt the monkey attitude. 4 real 4 real. GET BUSY.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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