posted
I've asked you this more than three times, and you still have not responded, so I ask again:
Where is your evidence that the Ancient Greeks were black Africans, as opposed to Mediterranean Indo-Europeans? Don't go off on a tangent about European forgeries. Just give us decent evidence.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have no idea who the Kemson character is, nor do I advocate a predominantly "black African" population in ancient Greece. Also, notwithstanding that this question isn't referred to me, nor am I giving him ammo, but I will point out that "Indo-European" is a language classification, not an ethnic identifier and even given that, only half of ancient Greek is accounted for in Indo-European. Also, as I'm sure you're aware of, yet for some reason still incorporate it within your general terminology (applying it to ethnicity), the "Mediterranean" is a sea, not a suitable ethnic appellation. The HLA study (which has been cited here numerous times) also shows them as having close ancestral ties with "sub-Saharan" Africans. Why? One can only theorize, but it is something to ponder nonetheless.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ I agree with Sundiata. T-rex, your terms are just as vague as Kemson is erroneous. Indo-Euorpean is a linguistic group, while Mediterranean is a geographic area that encompasses the Mediterranean Sea. Please don't tell me that after the year or so of being a member of this forum, that you still espouse out-dated Eurocentric notions of 'racial' groups let alone ones identified as "Mediterranean" or "Indo-European".
As for Kemson. Why bother with the guy? If he wants to believe the Greeks were black, that's his problem! Just as 'White Nord' wants to believe the Egyptians were white. Both people are two of a kind, and if they prefer foolish ignorance over sensible fact, who are we to change them? Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tyrann0saurus: I've asked you this more than three times, and you still have not responded, so I ask again:
Where is your evidence that the Ancient Greeks were black Africans, as opposed to Mediterranean Indo-Europeans? Don't go off on a tangent about European forgeries. Just give us decent evidence.
Tyrann0saurus, I don't have the proof. Where is your proof that Ancient Greeks were White as championed by an untold amount of White specialists with hundreds of published materials and even drawings? You know the ones with the funny looking old movie wizard looking White dudes with the long beards. Hell, I've seen some images were two different sketches represent one so-called White Greek character. I just chucked and thought, wow, they lying management must be tough sometimes.
As I said before, my in-depth, detailed and intuitive studies of Martin Bernal and Mary Lefkowitz’s heated Black Athena debate revealed many things to me and like a blast of flashing light with a sudden sparks in the depth of darkness I realized the idea of Ancient White Greeks was a complete hoax and one that had been sustain with exceptional lying management.
Because of the level of prominence many Whites specialists have initiated, championed and placed the Ancient Greek myth, I don’t think the burden of proof can ever be placed on me or any other Black person to prove whether Ancient Greeks were White or Black Africans. Europeans fabricated it and its descendants continue to perpetuate it, therefore you and member Djehuti should be hard at work proving the existence of White Ancient Greeks. After all your ancestors worked hard to establish the myth, don’t fail them now.
And lastly, why there portraits of so-called great thinker from a time when portraits where not made with no reference of their origins? I believe this question was explored by the great Dr. Phillip Emeagwali.
All these portraits depict White European characters further emphasizing my point regarding burden of proof which totally rests in your hands Tyrann0saurus as well as Djehuti and those like you.
Posts: 213 | From: New York City, USA | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ Dr. Emeagwali is briliant man, but whose specialty is in computer science NOT history or even anthropology.
As far as burden of proof, it is YOU who has that burden to show that the countless ancient images of 'white' Greeks are somehow fraudulent or fake. Nevermind the genetic and anthropological data given to you, I gave you a link to an actual Greek archaeological website for you to verify the authenticity of the catalouged artifacts in question. You have no done that. Which leads me to believe that you are either too scared, too unintelligent, or both. And you would rather hold on to your crutch claim of white supremacist conspiracy theories that all those ancient artifacts were forged.
Which again leaves you no different than 'White Nord' and his claims to a white Egypt.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Djehuti, trying to limit Dr. Phillip Emeagwali's brilliance to computer science, in actuality is far from limiting as you may have attempted. Because he is a computer scientist just like I'm in the field, he possesses a world of scientific tools for cataloging and analyze virtually anything right down to the minutest detail. In fact, Anthropological science relies heavily on computer science. So why do you attempt to limit ones brilliance to a highly specialized scientific field of great necessity to other specialized fields?
But then again, I'm not shocked by your mistakes. I just hope you can correct them for better future debates.
As for the so-called links you claim to have provided me (maybe one confusing inadmissible list of stuff), please post the links here again along with the EgyptSearch forum link you originally posted these links since you many have posted a lot of link sources (or more than two) but I never saw them. In addition, please point to one convincing areas, as example, in your sources which prove the "authenticity of the catalogued artifacts in question."
I refuse to resort to any insults and attempting to paint me as "too scared" or "too unintelligent" is almost as fraudulent as the Greek paintings. Finally, comparing me to some 'White Nord' name calling really is inadmissible at this point. I think you'd agree if you truly access my response here.
Posts: 213 | From: New York City, USA | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ LOL A bad non-sequitor. Even if all other sciences like anthropology now utilize the help of computers, it does not change the simple fact that Emeagwali's expertise is in computers NOT history or even physical anthropology.
If you want to cite a black African anthropologist, try Shomarka Keita. Unfortunately even his studies do not support your claims of Classical Greeks being black.
And what you 'refuse to resort to' is actually satisfying the burden of proof let alone actually verifying any of your claims.
So if you won't do that, then there is no point wasting my time. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Djehuti, your exact previous words were as follow:
quote: Nevermind the genetic and anthropological data given to you, I gave you a link to an actual Greek archaeological website for you to verify the authenticity of the catalouged artifacts in question.
And I asked you to repost them. As a matter of fact, my exact quotes were:
quote:As for the so-called links you claim to have provided me (maybe one confusing inadmissible list of stuff), please post the links here again along with the EgyptSearch forum link you originally posted these links since you many have posted a lot of link sources (or more than two) but I never saw them.
Now if you don't accomplish these basic debate requirements, you do understand that you would've successfully rendered yourself as unable to follow through even with your own words and this can make you look very untrustworthy?
If you fail to accomplish this in your next response post, I will find it hard to respond to you on this topic in this thread again.
Posts: 213 | From: New York City, USA | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ok, I'll let you off the hook this time. When you can provide me with actual realistic and comprohensive data of Whites who were the so-called masters of Ancient Greece I'll be willing to listen. Until then, good luck fabricating.
Peace!
Posts: 213 | From: New York City, USA | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ Translation: I am fleeing away in the face of the evidence provided. Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dispite your constant, annoying LOL's and buck-tooth icons, pretending and attempting to downplay my original request, I will make the request again with a link to the original post.
To prove ancient White Greeks existed, I want to see the level of work we've seen from Ancient Kemet, and places like, NOK, Ife, Igbo-Ukwu (by: Thurstan Shaw) and so on. I want to see the following regarding ancient White Greeks:
quote: - Excavations details - Documentary coverage - Independent test results (as we've seen with Ancient Kemet proving it was a Black African Civilization) - Tested human remains (bones, teeth, hair) - European art dated into B.C. times (not these fake nonsense posts) - Geologist reports (on stones used for sculptures of Helmet wearing Whites.)
I'll make my charge again. Ancient White Greeks have never existed. It is a complete fabrication. A well sustained lie. A hoax. A gigantic trick. And you Djehuti and other ~educated Whites like you have a lot of work to do proving otherwise and until you do it will remain that Ancient White Greece never existed.
Respond however you want with more LOL's and buck-tooth icons or with serious external academic/scientific sources, but this is the last time I'll make this request in this thread.
Posts: 213 | From: New York City, USA | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
While a few of us are debating Greece, Real African Culture is under the threat of being lost forever.
Posts: 567 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Kemson – I’m afraid that you have been suckered into a no-win situation. You got there by assuming that you were dealing with people who had an interest in truth and understanding. I think that by now, you must have figured out that their only interest was in propagating the same old lies. There is no interest in finding out the truth, because they already know it. All that they are trying to accomplish, is to keep you from really knowing it. They know that right now, you think it’s true, but you are not sure, and they are doing their best to keep you that way.
One of the best tools for dealing with situations like this is the corollary: That is to say; you first establish the known and undisputable facts, and extrapolate facts from there.
The other thing that you need to do; Is assume that every White person talking or writing about this particular subject matter, is a lying, soulless, racist creature, who is only trying to protect the wall of lies that they have created. They won’t all be, but most will be. You must also be able to filter through the tons of trivial B.S. that they will use to confuse the central truth. The following quote is from encyclopedia Britannica.
Hellenes (Greeks) Quote: Of the Indo-European tribes of European origin, the Greeks were foremost as regards both the period at which they developed an advanced culture and their importance in further evolution. The Greeks emerged in the course of the 2nd millennium BC through the superimposition of a branch of the Indo-Europeans on the population of the Mediterranean region during the great migrations of nations that started in the region of the lower Danube. From 1800 BC onward the first early Greeks reached their later areas of settlement between the Ionian and the Aegean seas. The fusion of these earliest Greek-speaking people with their predecessors produced the civilization known as Mycenaean. They penetrated to the sea into the Aegean region and via Crete (approximately 1400 BC) reached Rhodes and even Cyprus and the shores of Anatolia. From 1200 BC onward the Dorians followed from Epirus.
As you can see, the author of the article; a Mr. Timothy C. Champion, fits the profile that I mentioned earlier. But there is enough information in the piece to divine the truth.
As you can see right off; he uses their favorite term to confuse you “Indo-European”, as even the dumbest on the board knows, that is not a term that can be used to describe people.
So lets establish the undisputable truths. There are only three races: Black (the original – about 400,000 years old), the offshoot Eurasian race from the Eurasian plains: [the large expanse of grasslands stretching from east of the Caspian sea to Manchuria], (split from Black about 120,000 years ago), the two modern races of Mongol and Caucasian (split from each other 40,000 years ago). That’s ALL: everyone else is some combination. So to summarize; there is Black, Mongol and White -period.
Now back to Mr. Champions piece: He says that they came in sometime after 2,000 B.C. (it’s more likely after 1,500 B.C. but let’s not quibble). He mentions “their predecessors”, (the first known civilization in Greece was from about 7,000 B.C.). We earlier established that modern Whites didn’t get there until after 2000 B.C. So whom could he be talking about? Well what are the choices: could it be Mongols, Cro-Magnons (they were still there), or Blacks.
A funny thing here: this is just the dilemma that many White researchers have encountered. Guess what their fix has been: They elevated Cro-Magnon to Homo-sapien-sapien, same as us, (modern man). I know that you thought that I was a bit extreme, are you getting the drift now? They know no limits to their lies and deceit.
But back to the point: Of course it wasn’t Cro-magnons, and of course it wasn’t Mongols, so only one choice is left: THE BLACK AFRICAN!
BTW – they had nothing to do with the building of Mycenae, even that is a lie!
posted
^ The guy got into a no win situation when he began dismissing authentic ancient Greek artwork as "frauds" and "fabrications" without any evidence to back up his claims. His situation got worse when I provided a link to an Greek archaeological site which he refuses to use, since he knows it dispells his silly racist fantasy.
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mike111, you are correct that certain/every "White person talking or writing about this particular subject matter, is a lying, soulless, racist creature, who is only trying to protect the wall of lies that they have created."
I've been dealing with quite a few lately and I'm constantly reassured that the lies and deception almost knows no end for only truth knows no end.
Anyway, thanks a million and no you weren't extreme; Far from it. The truth is never extreme to anyone who's truthful.
I spent some time reading the link you posted I am glad that more people are opening and keeping their eyes opened on issues like this. I am even more glad people are speaking about it.
Posts: 213 | From: New York City, USA | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ Talk about calling others "lying" and "racist". Don't you find your words a tad hypocritical?
You have yet to prove that the various artifacts below are somehow fakes or frauds.
quote:
And what about the modern Greek people today, who bear a striking resemblance to the ancient depictions above?
Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I starting to believe that some of you are really serious about this Black Greece Idea but why ? 
Printer-friendly view of this topic