posted
Peace and blessings Phamily. I wanted to take some time to have a brief discussion about the historical comparative method and the importance of the regularity of sound-meaning correspondences when trying to ascertain the etymology of a word, and/or its cognate in related languages. Recently in the “Ancient Egypt African Cultural Diffusion” thread (http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=010356;p=7), our good brother AncientGebts made a claim that the ancient Egyptian Horus (Hr.w) can be found in the Tigrigna (Semitic) language as halawi (ሓላዊ) “sentry, watchman, escort, guard.” You can see his accompanying images below.
There are several problems with this analysis and is why I felt it better to respond in a separate post as the conversation is all over the place in the original forum. The methodology employed by AncientGebts is typical throughout his work and why it diminishes the quality of his conclusions, and renders much of it false.
The first issue at hand is that AncientGebts doesn’t supply us any in Egyptian with the consonant values Hr.w meaning “guard, sentry, watchman, escort.” Secondly, he doesn’t provide any series of regular, non-accidental sound-meaning correspondences to demonstrate that we can match the phonemes in Tigrigna one-for-one with the series in Egyptian. This is done so that we can eliminate chance as being an explanation for the alleged correspondence between Egyptian Hr.w and Tigrigna halawi. Thirdly, we have a mismatch in meanings. He is trying to meaning of the New Kingdom Egyptian word HrHr “to guard; to keep” [Andreu/Cauville, RdE 29, 1977, 10; Meeks, AL 77.2819; Lesko, Dictionary II, 135; KoptHWb 569; vgl. EDG 326 f] and retro apply it to Hr “hawk” and Hr.w “the deity Horus” without context. Lastly, AncientGebts totally ignores the grammar in Egyptian and doesn’t understand that the -w is a grammatical morpheme that must be explained in Tigrigna.
As mentioned before, what must be done is an analysis of a series of regular sound-meaning correspondences between two or more languages to find the cognates of our term and symbol. For this post I will choose ciLuba-Bantu, a language of the Democratic Republic of Kongo, to find our correspondences. What the reader must first understand is that the G5 and G7 (hawk on standard) can be rendered either Hr or nTr. This is why the G5 or G7 hieroglyph is interchangeable with both A40 (seated man with beard) and R8 (netcher pole) classifiers (so-called determinatives) when referring to deities and kings. The G5 or G7 hawk glyphs, however, dominate when referring to the king.
Thus, when we are comparing Egyptian Hr(w) “hawk; deity,” we must also account for nTr “hawk; deity” in the compared language(s). In the following table of examples, we note that Egyptian H corresponds with ciLuba /k/; and Egyptian r corresponds with ciLuba /l/. Also, Egyptian -w corresponds with ciLuba mu-.
Remember that we also have to find correspondences to Egyptian nTr. The following table demonstrates that Egyptian <n> corresponds to ciLuba /n/ and /mu-/ prefixes; Egyptian T corresponds to ciLuba /k/; and Egyptian r corresponds to ciLuba /l/, /s/, and /z/.
As we can see, ciLuba accounts for all phonemes. When it comes to Hr.w “hawk; deity” and nTr “deity” (also hawk), the word derives from a root meaning “power; to make strong.” When the agent morphemes are added (-w in Hr.w and n- in nTr) it becomes “eminent or powerful person.” This describes a king, ancestor, or divinity. It refers to something or someone that has the ability and authority to make things happen. This is reflected in Proto-Bantu (PB): *kódì "bird of prey; hawk species"; *kòd "be strong, be hard, be difficult." This may be related to PB *kód "take, touch" (ciLuba -aakila "seize, to take"; Egyptian j.kn "to seize; to take hold of," TA.j “to take; to sieze”). Egyptian Hr.w can still be found in Isizulu (South Africa) as uhele/izihele “hawk.” The word power means “the ability to act, do, and/or produce an effect.” This is reflected in ciKam/Egyptian as Hr “to be ready (to do something); to make ready” [Wb 3, 146-147.9; FCD 176].
Both the graphemes in Egyptian H and T derive from /k/. Both Hr and nTr are doublets in the language. The bantu languages help to clarify the history, context, and relationship between the grapheme and its usage in ancient Egyptian. This is not surprising since ciBantu and ciKam share a common ancestor. Provide that we cannot put together the same series of correspondences between Middle-Egyptian and Tigrigna, the word halawi can only be considered a look-a-like.
References:
Asar Imhotep. (2020). Aaluja Vol. II: Cyena-Ntu Religion and Philosophy. Madu-Ndela Press. Philadelphia, PA.
Asar Imhotep. (2020). Towards Comparative Dictionary of ciKam and Modern African Languages. Madu-Ndela Press. Philadelphia, PA.
Adolf Erman und Herman Grapow. (1971). Worterbuch der Aegyptischen Sprache. Berlin, Germany.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Rain King: When we see Ausar, Asset, and Heru that is Nile Valley is it not?
As you can see in my above posts, the titles, Ras, Atse (Atseti), Emebet, and Halawi are still in use in Ethiopia and Eritrea today.
Geb you wrote to me, but you must have missed Ausar Imhotep's breakdown in this thread made specifically for you!
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
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posted
Asar, thanks for building a great word list. I'll try to take each, one by one. It's easier for me to match to actual hieroglyphs than word lists, so I'll find the hieroglyphs and match to them.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
This is why I worded it the way that I did. Notice that in the original image, he claimed that the word for Hr.w in Tigrigna was "halawi." Now, he provides another document in which he argues that that Egyptian Hr.w is "Chi'ru. Notice the difference in the arguments.
In Bantu and ciKam, I can account for both usages of G5 and G7.
G5 = "hawk" = Hr and nTr G7 = "hawk on standard" = Hr and nTr (can also be ns.w)
Both forms can be traced to a root akin to Proto-Bantu *kòd "be strong, be hard, be difficult" and *kódì "bird of prey; hawk species." The /ó/ in *kód explains why in Greek Egyptian Hr.w is rendered HOR.us, and why H.t-Hr.w is rendered HatHOR.
Notice that in Semitic, the word *da’y(-at) ‘bird of prey’ is simply rendered in Tigrigna as dah (also ’adha’) - ‘a bird’.
As discussed in Aaluja Vol. II (2020), Egyptian Hr, nTr, and kA are the same word, built from the same monosyllabic roots. Egyptian consist of CV monosyllables, which are built on by agglutination. This is why it is important to understand the grammar. The word Hr.w has the -w agent suffix, which is prefixed in Bantu as mu- and ng-.
When we look at the examples given by AncientGebts, we can see the inconsistency in his comparisons. This is why we make the lists like I showed in the beginning. Much of his comparisons are chance look-a-likes and doesn't account for the grammar inherent in the lexemes.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
The hieroglyph referred to as [H] can be [Q], [QW], [K], [KW], [G], [GW], [KH], [CH], [SH], [J], or [H].
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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Below is an example where the hieroglyph's primary pronunciation [Q] is for qulqulet (ቁልቁለት) "downhill", yet the ancient writer used it to write the word chanat (ጫናት) "loads", which begins with the [CH] pronunciation sound. Even the Egyptologist transliterates it as [G], which is okay as long as you have an understanding of the related pronunciation sounds that can be written with the hieroglyph.
Also notice that the [N] pronunciation was written with the [N] of gan (ጋን) "large jar", the large jars that were utilized to ship grain and other goods in.
Of course this is only one example of the uses of particular hieroglyphs that can be used to write related sounds.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
Merkabat in the Underlying Text of the Bible
Below you will notice two different writers utilized different hieroglyphs to write the [K] pronunciation sounds in the word merkabat (መርካባት) "boats" (merkab is singular)(מרחפת and מרכבות)...
The hieroglyph comes for the word merkabat in the Rosetta Stone...
posted
You are all over the place and it is clear with you assigning 8 different phonemes to each hieroglyph, which is why you make up meanings to words and can't find consistent matches to the forms. You totally ignore Egyptian grammar and none of your translations make any sense. Neither Middle-Egyptian, New Kingdom Egyptian, Demotic, or Coptic is a Semitic language and no amount internet magicianship is going to make it such. All these years and you still haven't learned the language yet. This is a waste of time.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
If it's a waste of your time, then why did I waste so much time responding to you? I'll make sure I don't respond to any more of your challenges, and don't challenge me again.
But to the point, I don't see you publishing any complete retranslations of ancient Egyptian texts using ciLuba. Why not? You can't match every word?
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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Is this your only published retranslation? It seems like you simply follow whatever Egyptologists have translated, without any discoveries. If you are accurate in your identification of the living language of the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic language, you should be able to correct Egyptologist translations and show us some discoveries.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
From my retranslation of section/plate 1 of the Papyrus of Ani Free PDF edition download:
Column 14: Transporting Ani's body in secret to the tomb...
The Egyptologist version makes no sense at all and is just stupid, when you consider the solemn act of entombing an important person who has died...
My retranslation clarifies the sentence and shows the relationship of the written words to the painting...
Column 25 and 26: Ani's grieving wife accompanying Ani's body on the sled...
The Egyptologist completely ignores what the painting shows, which is Ani's grieving wife accompanying her husband's mummified body to the tomb...
My retranslation writes her back in...
Here we clearly see Ani's grieving wife on the sled...
What is the purpose of a retranslation with an African language, if there is no clarification of the message?Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: [QB] Merkabat in the Underlying Text of the Bible
Below you will notice two different writers utilized different hieroglyphs to write the [K] pronunciation sounds in the word merkabat (መርካባት) "boats" (merkab is singular)(מרחפת and מרכבות)...
why is the word hovercraft here? A hovercraft is very modern, powered by one or more very large gas powered engines
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
I show the words from the Israel-based Morfix Hebrew online translator, whatever the translator says. That's just what it says.
When you see a Biblical mechanical translation, they are very selective in the meanings they show you, because they are trying to fit the Biblical narrative. I don't want to portray that type of bias, so I show whatever the Morfix translator says.
You would have to write to Morfix and ask them. I'm sure you can understand that I cannot speak for third-parties.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
The point of the word was that it didn't actually mean hover in the air, as the Biblical translation tried to make it out to be. But, instead, the underlying word actually meant hover on the water (a boat). That's what a boat does.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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AncientGebts what is going on here. In the tomb of Rameses I there's this painting of him and on either side figures with human bodies and animal heads. What are they and what do they represent?
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posted
It can be best illustrated by a bas relief done by the ancient Ptolemic Greeks in ancient Egypt.
As part of the ancient Greek propaganda to gain acceptance of the ancient Egyptian people during their occupation of Egypt, here we can see a bas relief carving implying that ancient Egyptian ancestors approved of the Greek invasion and occupation.
On the left we see Queen Mirtnesh (Egyptologist: Neith) of Lower Egypt with the red grain floret awn crown on her head, representing the large-scale farming she developed in the Dead Sea region of Lower Egypt. On the right, we see Queen Megabit (Egyptologist: Nekhbet) with the white upside-down shipping jar crown on her head, representing the first ancient Egyptian city that she developed in the Nile Valley of Upper Egypt (Nekheb) from an over-sized food market.
In the middle, we can see the Ptolemy king, with the basqemete crown (ባስቀመጠ meaning to "set something inside something else") on his head. This was to imply, to all the ancient Egyptians who saw it, that the two ancient queens from the founding period of ancient Egypt, approved of him.
We can see the hand gestures of the two queens, praising and sharing their power with the Ptolemy king.
posted
In the Rameses I painting, we see similar approval and praise, one from the governor on the left and the funeral director on the right.
These are not humans with animal heads. As in most parts of Africa and the world, ancient Egyptians also practiced the art of masking. So, the actual people painted in the scene, as part of the entombment ceremony, wore masks.
Below we can see actual ancient Egyptian masks...
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
Modes of Activity in Masking From, "Igbo Masks: The Oneness of Ritual and Theatre," by Onuora Ossie Enekwe Published by the Department of Culture, Federal Ministry of Information and Culture Lagos, Nigeria A Nigeria Magazine Publication
"The Igbo conceive of a mask...as the incarnation of the dead ancestors who continue to take an active interest in the affairs of their living descendants and relations."
"In the spirit world, the dead live as they had done when they were alive, the same social structures, family relationships and communions. The effort of the Igbo to actualize these beliefs about the relationship with the dead has eventuated in a very intriguing and vibrant theater."
"Since traditional Igbo people believe that Spirits are capable of animating any material object, the mask has been for them a vehicle up for the manifestation of the dead and other supernatural forces, including nature spirits and deities, as well as idols created by the imagination and reinforced by means of ritual and magic."
"The mask has a certain psychological effect on the wearer, and those with whom it interacts. The masker takes on the qualities or attributes of the ancestors, gods, or supernatural beings or forces, drawn from the myths of the Igbo."
"The man in the mask is transformed in physical terms also. When a mask is in motion, The spectators think mainly of the figure they see, that is, the mask itself. The masker seems to be transmogrified into the figure he is representing. Around the mask, "there is an aura of secrecy and make-believe, strengthened by the idea of hidden identity," which generates dramatic interest. The mask possesses a charismatic and totemic quality, but a mask is only what the people who own it think it is. Its power depends entirely on the sentiments and ideas with which it is surrounded by the community."
"What is common and fundamental to most traditions of masking is the concealment of the face and the head, for the face relates to the soul, while the head is the focal point of transformation and vital center of magic and power."
"As I have pointed out, the primary function of masking is to manifest the supernatural. The activities of the being or force manifested are supposed to reinforce the myth that spiritual beings and forces can appear among the living. Apart from this, the masks dramatize the manners and habits of the living."
"In all this, the intention of the performer is usually not to tell a story that is complete, whole, and which has a beginning, a middle and an end."
"The supernatural aspect comprises all activities that emphasized the otherworldly nature of the mask, as, for instance, when a mask is presented as an object of worship or sacrifice, or when incantations are addressed to it. The supernatural of the mask is also reinforced when it praises itself as all-powerful and when escorts and audience affirm that it is so."
"The dialogue between the mask and the member is, of course, highly conventionalized. Once it is over, the mask continues with the other aspects of the performance. The supernatural element is primarily suggested by the costume, music and other elements that support the mask. It is more overtly emphasized in those actions in which the mask encounters the audience directly."
"The mimetic aspect involves an imitation of life or an imagined activity... which involves the display of overt aesthetic skills."
"The third aspect, the display of overt aesthetic skills, usually comprises dancing, singing, acrobatics, magic, etc. This aspect, as we have already noted, usually serves a mimetic purpose..."
"In general, the three aspects more or less overlap in every performance... [such as] imitating an encounter between a spirit and a human being..."Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: If it's a waste of your time, then why did I waste so much time responding to you? I'll make sure I don't respond to any more of your challenges, and don't challenge me again.
But to the point, I don't see you publishing any complete retranslations of ancient Egyptian texts using ciLuba. Why not? You can't match every word?
It's a waste of time because, as stated previously, you have had almost 10 years to learn the field of linguistics and you still do not understand the basics. As a result, you continue with these far flung comparisons, which show no consistency and ignores the rules of the language under study.
When confronted about your mistakes, you then go on to either 1) refuse to answer direct questions regarding methodology, or 2) start spamming the post like Clyde Winters with a bunch of irrelevant information all in an attempt to not answer the challenges posed to you. So yes, it is a waste of time.
Either provide a comparative set of Egyptian and Tigrigna putative correspondences, identifying the phonetic logical equivalents, with matching meanings, or find something else to do. We will not be confused by your images of your made up matches and meanings and incoherent sentences.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
That first word is מְרַחֶפֶת, m*rahhepheth. It's first applied to a 'force' about to interact with the 'waters'. The root's, רַחֵף, primary definition is hover/float in the sense of 'brood' (as a hen does over her eggs) see B*reshiyth 1:2
That second word is מַרְכְּבֹת, mar*k*both. It's the plural of chariot.
The two words מְרַחֶפֶת מַרְכְּבֹת are unrelated, sound different.
חֶ and כְּ aren't interchangeable. חֶ is a hard h sound, something like German ch. כְּ is a hard k sound no different than k in kite.
פֶ and בֹ aren't interchangeable. פֶ is a soft or aspirated p sound, f in Germanic languages. בֹ is a soft or aspirated b sound, no Germanic equivalent.
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Either provide a comparative set of Egyptian and Tigrigna putative correspondences, identifying the phonetic logical equivalents, with matching meanings, or find something else to do.
Sorry, I'm not a linguist. You know that.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: That first word is מְרַחֶפֶת, m*rahhepheth. It's first applied to a 'force' about to interact with the 'waters'. The root's, רַחֵף, primary definition is hover/float in the sense of 'brood' (as a hen does over her eggs) see B*reshiyth 1:2
That second word is מַרְכְּבֹת, mar*k*both. It's the plural of chariot.
The two words מְרַחֶפֶת מַרְכְּבֹת are unrelated, sound different.
חֶ and כְּ aren't interchangeable. חֶ is a hard h sound, something like German ch. כְּ is a hard k sound no different than k in kite.
פֶ and בֹ aren't interchangeable. פֶ is a soft or aspirated p sound, f in Germanic languages. בֹ is a soft or aspirated b sound, no Germanic equivalent.
All this depends on who the particular ancient writer was. There was no standardized spelling back then, so writers (scribes, etc.) chose to write words their own way. You can see this, not only in my retranslations, but also in Egyptologist hieroglyphic word lists.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: As a result, you continue with these far flung comparisons, which show no consistency and ignores the rules of the language under study.
I may not be a linguist, but I hire language specialists and linguists related to the specific languages I'm comparing, which helps me understand and conduct comparisons.
Therefore, if I'm discussing any language, it is because I have hired native language speakers or linguists in that specific language to help me conduct comparisons, which includes...
Amarigna
Tigrigna
English
Hebrew
Biblical Hebrew
Aramaic/Syriac
and others
I also utilize online sources to compare languages, including the WALS Online website that allows for the comparison of 2,662 languages and language features around the world. The World Atlas of Language Structures (WALS) is a large database of structural (phonological, grammatical, lexical) properties of languages gathered from descriptive materials (such as reference grammars) by a team of 55 authors.
You find the features or chapters of WALS through the items "Features" and "Chapters" in the navigation bar.
You can also browse and search for languages through the item "Languages" on the navigation bar.
You can search for references through the item "References", and once you have navigated to a particular feature, you see a second navigation bar with citation information and various export options.
A description of changes from previous editions is available through the item "Changes".
WALS Online has a tool that allows for linguistic comparisons of attributes for languages around the world including Amarigna, Tigrigna and ciLuba. For example, here is a list of attributes specific to ciLuba... https://wals.info/languoid/lect/wals_code_cil
Then, you are also able to compare specific linguistic attributes. Here is a worldwide comparison of Adjectives without Nouns... https://wals.info/feature/61A#2/27.7/148.9
You can change the parameters to compare 192 different linguistic features in languages around the world, including features such as...
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Either provide a comparative set of Egyptian and Tigrigna putative correspondences, identifying the phonetic logical equivalents, with matching meanings, or find something else to do.
Sorry, I'm not a linguist. You know that.
How in the Hell do you have the Gaul to plaster this shit all over the forum as though you know what you're talking about, but you cannot contend a direct challenge that is asking for the most essential information to your linguistic argument?
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Rain King: How in the Hell do you have the Gaul to plaster this shit all over the forum as though you know what you're talking about, but you cannot contend a direct challenge that is asking for the most essential information to your linguistic argument?
Like I said, I'm not a linguist, but I hire them. And I'm certainly not going to post analysis here that I've paid good money for from them, simply to satisfy your stubborn curiosity. Whatever I post doesn't matter to any of you, so why would I post what you want to know for free?
If you saw from the 2-week HallOfMaat.com discussion, I don't answer those types of technical questions you're asking, for people whose only objective is to ridicule and belittle my work.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Rain King: ... but you cannot contend a direct challenge that is asking for the most essential information to your linguistic argument?
Didn't you read what he said? He said talking to me is a waste of time and he's always had this attitude with my work. This is why I won't post what he's asking for.
I used to discuss with him technical details on Yahoo Messenger, back when I was publishing my first book in 2009, he was open and objective. But he's a different person now. So I have to treat his questions and challenges as what they are -- simply a path to ridicule and belittle my work.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
In fact, the only respectful people on EgyptSearch are The Lioness and sometimes Tukuler. Everybody else seems to be xenophobic and racist against Ethiopians.
If I said the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic language was a West African language --any West African language -- I'd be treated totally different. But the xenophobia is allowed to persist by the moderators, along with the despicable tone, foul language and bullying language.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I have known and funned w/Semitic speaking Ethiopians since 1969. Worku and Haille-Miriam families particularly during university. A few Beta Israel since then including mengsties and a Xian Semitic Ethiopian who may've been Falas Mura(sp). Oh did I forget multi-linguist Dr Ephraim Issac whom I often disagree with?
Respect's given as received. I will warn then if still getting dissed will retaliate in kind. No doormat me. "If someone comes to kill you, quick kill them first!".
=-=
ES ADMIN & MODs are making ES what they will. Rey has that right after successfully making deals with OWNER Sami. I don't think they are at all receptive of user initiated protocols.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
No, that is absolutely incorrect. It depends on no such thing. Nor can you provide ancient Hebrew examples of such mishmoshings from any Canaanitic texts much less so in either the Judaean or Samaritan Hhumash.
Modern Hebrew isn't ancient Hebrew. Israels in Yemen speak pristine Hebrew. Jews of Europe mostly speak[*] High German lexified with Hebrew. This Yiddish influenced the Ashkenazi creation of modern Hebrew.
If someone doesn't actually know a lick of Hebrew at all how can one make any rational claims about the tongue?
If it was accurate your reply shoots itself in the foot as according to you the spelling is unstable meaning all words are in error including the ones you select.
Because you haven't even studied rudimentary Hebrew you have no idea of גמטריא.
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
That first word is מְרַחֶפֶת, m*rahhepheth. It's first applied to a 'force' about to interact with the 'waters'. The root's, רַחֵף, primary definition is hover/float in the sense of 'brood' (as a hen does over her eggs) see B*reshiyth 1:2
That second word is מַרְכְּבֹת, mar*k*both. It's the plural of chariot.
The two words מְרַחֶפֶת מַרְכְּבֹת are unrelated, sound different.
חֶ and כְּ aren't interchangeable. חֶ is a hard h sound, something like German ch. כְּ is a hard k sound no different than k in kite.
פֶ and בֹ aren't interchangeable. פֶ is a soft or aspirated p sound, f in Germanic languages. בֹ is a soft or aspirated b sound, no Germanic equivalent.
All this depends on who the particular ancient writer was. There was no standardized spelling back then, so writers (scribes, etc.) chose to write words their own way. You can see this, not only in my retranslations, but also in Egyptologist hieroglyphic word lists.
.
[*] There are Hebraized Latin tonques by Spanish&Portuguese Jewry. S&P Jewry included West African origin Jews in Iberia. In former Dutch WI/SA West African origin Jews created their own Hebrew related lect, Djo Tongo. I've had no success with it since Minister Louis Gerstein passed. He knew and could speak it. I can locate no African Hollanders from the former Dutch West Indies who have so little as even heard about Djo Tongo.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:That first word is מְרַחֶפֶת, m*rahhepheth. It's first applied to a 'force' about to interact with the 'waters'. The root's, רַחֵף , primary definition is hover/float in the sense of 'brood' (as a hen does over her eggs) see B*reshiyth 1:2
That second word is מַרְכְּבֹת, mar*k*both. It's the plural of chariot.
quote: The two words מְרַחֶפֶת מַרְכְּבֹת are unrelated, sound different.
חֶ and כְּ aren't interchangeable. חֶ is a hard h sound, something like German ch. כְּ is a hard k sound no different than k in kite.
פֶ and בֹ aren't interchangeable. פֶ is a soft or aspirated p sound, f in Germanic languages. בֹ is a soft or aspirated b sound, no Germanic equivalent.
.
Fire the 'scribe' who mistakes one word for another that no way sounds like it and is inept enough to substitute h for k and p for b.
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: Like I said, I'm not a linguist, but I hire them.
AncientGebts if you start paying some freelance linguist to associate Tigrigna and Amarigna to Egyptian or Hebrew if they say "I don't think these connections make sense you are asking me to work on" Then they might lose the job. How come you haven't gotten some professional linguist to agree with your theory and for them to submit an article to a peer reviewed science journal so that other professional linguists can judge it? There are also open access journals that are not peer reviewed but it would be better than nothing. Where is there a published work other than your own anywhere that supports your theory?
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Amarigna & Tigrigna Qal Hieroglyphs for Beginners: Perfect for Travelers To Egypt and Students of Ancient Gebts
Gebts is the ancient name of Egypt. Now you can properly read the hieroglyphs properly for yourself in the Amarigna and Tigrigna languages. These two languages are of the Amara and Akele-Gezai merchants, from today's regions of Ethiopia and Eritrea, who founded ancient Gebts 5100 years ago. After 20 years of research, this book corrects Egyptologists' hieroglyphic pronunciation and spellings mistakes. These corrections have allowed the hieroglyphic language to finally be matched to these two languages. The Tigrigna-speaking ancient Akele merchants traveled to Gebts via the Red Sea, entering Gebts in the north. The Amarigna-speaking ancient Amara merchants, entered Gebts from the southern end of Gebts. When Gebts was divided into the "Two Lands," 5100 years ago, the northern Nile Delta was divided for the Akele to administer and the southern Nile Valley for the Amara merchants. This division is told of in the famous "Shabaka Stone" inscription. Over the following years, the Akele and Amara would mostly jointly rule ancient Gebts. This was until the so-called "New Kingdom" period of King Tut's Akele family line, which exclusively ruled Gebts from about 1500 BC to 1069 BC (Akele kings have a falcon in their names). Shortly following, around 900 BC, hieroglyphs suddenly appear in Akele-Guzay, Eritrea (the "Akele-Guzay script," which has been improperly labeled "South Arabian script" - not having been found in South Arabia for another 100 years after). The ancient Akele merchants having co-developed hieroglyphs with the Amara merchants, it is not surprising to see hieroglyphs in Akele-Guzay shortly at the end of the exclusive Akele rule - possibly a sign that many Akele returned home after thousands of years. Travelers to Egypt and students will especially benefit from this book. Background: Modern Egyptologists, unlike their ancient Greek historian counterparts, did not know how to read hieroglyphs until after they discovered the so-called "Rosetta Stone" in 1799, which helped them learn to decipher the hieroglyphs. But Greek historians did know the history of ancient Gebts, including that of the hieroglyphs origin and their connection to the people of today's Ethiopia and Eritrea. Ancient Greek historians, such as Diodorus Siculus of 100 BC, knew without prejudice that the ancient Ethiopians founded ancient Gebts and that hieroglyphic writing was of Ethiopian origin. As Diodorus writes, "They say also that the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians... and the forms of their letters are Ethiopian." But modern day Egyptologists, beginning in 1799 with the discovery of the 197 BC Rosetta Stone, mistakenly assigned so many wrong sounds to various hieroglyphic letters, though mostly subtle, that they rendered the hieroglyphic language unable to be matched to any Ethiopian or other language, calling it a "dead" language. This was partly due to the ancient Greek military rulers of ancient Gebts who, in 197 BC, had the propaganda message of the Rosetta Stone inscribed by their own priests. The Greeks, foreigners to Gebts, as well as to the Amarigna and Tigrigna languages, could not properly pronounce ancient Gebts words properly. And since proper spelling completely relied on proper pronunciation prior to spelling, the Greek military unknowingly transferred their pronunciation mistakes to the hieroglyphic portion of their propaganda message. Nearly two thousand years later, when modern day Egyptologists found the stone tablet and began translating the hieroglyphic message on the stone, they were already handicapped by the earlier Greek military spelling mistakes. Therefore, this book is an important part of the evolution in accurate hieroglyphic translation. More importantly, reading the hieroglyphs in Amarigna and Tigrigna provides the student, researcher, or traveler a fuller understanding, and in proper cultural context, of what the hieroglyphs can reveal about ancient Gebts, its people, and its culture (less)
So when these merchants from Ethiopia went to Egypt 5,000 years ago was there anybody already living there?
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Fire the 'scribe' who mistakes one word for another that no way sounds like it and is inept enough to substitute h for k and p for b.
The thing I respect about you is that you analyze and critique individual words I publish or post. This is why I come into forums with individuals that have different views than my own.
I don't need to have conversations with people who only agree with me. What can I learn from that? I can hire yes men. But that's not my aim.
Do people here subjecting me to all this abuse and foul language the Mods allow think I don't know what I'm in for posting on this site? The hatred for my work is clear. I know what I'll be subjected to, clearly.
In fact, I post free PDF editions of my books, which cost between $14.95 and $34.95 on Amazon, and people like Asar say I'm spamming. If I didn't give the PDF editions for free, he would say I'm only coming here to sell books. There's no respect for anything I do here. But I know prior to posting. I'm a big boy, so I can take it, but I never stay for too long getting bullied, insulted and beat up.
People who are simply outraged at my work and give general statements of outrage are of no value, to either them nor to me. It's only through this kind of careful analysis and critique of each other's views -- word-by-word -- can anyone on either side learn anything (or on both sides) to advance their own work.
We don't need to agree with each other. If you know everything I know, one of us isn't necessary. And vice-versa.
Thanks for the careful critiques of my words, Tukuler. I really appreciate the time you put into it. After all, you could be doing something else more enjoyable than critiquing my words.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: AncientGebts if you start paying some freelance linguist to associate Tigrigna and Amarigna to Egyptian or Hebrew if they say "I don't think these connections make sense you are asking me to work on" Then they might lose the job.
They don't lose the job. Why would I hire them to agree with me? That would be a waste of my money, especially since they are not publishing articles for me.
I fire them if they do not disagree with me. And when they disagree with me, I pay them to tell me why.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: How come you haven't gotten some professional linguist to agree with your theory
Because nobody can speak for my work other than myself. It is a novel approach to ancient languages, and I like it that way.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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