quote:

---

Originally posted by caterpillar:
actually i was enjoying his post, and diddnt think he was a terrorist...oops sorry should i have written that in arabic??????

---

No no... I didnt tell him he's a terrorist at all... But I was just giving him an advice to be careful with what he says sometimes in religion or even in politics that might present him to non-arabic speakers as as a fanatic. Becuase we the arabic speakers as well as a few more non-arabic speakers here find him funny. But the rest don't because they take his posts too seriously. And Batman doesnt want to be taken seriously all the time

I enjoy his posts too... he's hilarious

And forgot to translate this too: that since he's aware that we have people here with differnet religions.... He should be resperctful of their religions.... they love their religions as much as he loves his.... & It is not his duty to make them all believe in Islam....... That's the part when it doesnt get hilarious or funny or sarcastic

we just dont want non muslims to think we are intolerant.... it's a bad image
 

---

Posted by Lady from the water (Member # 11948) on :
 
i think its the duty of all the muslims to let others believe in islam,no?
 

---

Posted by muslimman (Member # 11892) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lady from the water:
i think its the duty of all the muslims to let others believe in islam,no?

---

did i said anything about converted muslims Demiana....?
 

---

Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
Muslimman, I can't follow this thread since part of it is in Arabic. Lady is asking a question, a huge improvement since in another thread she was just stating both muslims and christians the factual 'truth' about the way they should take up their subsequent religons.
If you mean the new converts I consider you are right about the underlying insecurities, to me that goes for some newly converts in any religion. Narrowmindedness and exclusion is a state of mind and not a very religious or faithfull attitude.
 

---

Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
Are you a newly convert Lady?
We like to have people come in categories you know!:-) But newly converted or just ignorant about others in the world it will all boil down to the same thing, misunderstandings and quarrels and war eventually. Unless we can have some humor and sarcasm about it it is hard to swallow.
 

---

Posted by muslimman (Member # 11892) on :
 
yes, i meant narrowmindedness and new type of islam... that suits to ppl who are changing religion not because of Allah but because of other reasons...
its very hard to change sbs faith... its a longterm process... especially when someone was growing up among christians or jews or other religions... even if he/she didnt fully agree with his/her religion.... its still not a piece of cake to change it to another one, specially islam...
its hard work, of course some of them know that its worth to do this, but still the background, families, ways of thinking and habits are not making it easier...
i dont want to say that all converted muslims are not real muslims - NO. Its much harder for them to be a muslim, for sure. And they have much more problems in finding good sources and examples to follow up than muslims from birth who are very often too lazy to look around ...

on the other hand new converts they have open minds for new religion, without cultural influences like in Egypt or other Arab countries... anyhow i appreciate every person's effort to know islam and understand it...

but pls first try to understand yourselves... and why you want to change your religion? and this is not a simple question believe me. and its not enought sometimes to ask once or ten times and get same answer from inside.... its the matter of being honest to yourself and God... HONEST up to pain.
 

---

Posted by Chinderella on the Left wing (Member # 11953) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lady from the water:
i think its the duty of all the muslims to let others believe in islam,no?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
Well, in fact, the answer to Lady's question should differ to whom is responding this.
In the end you are personally responsible to answer this to yourself, to God, to anyone.

---

isnt like that in quran that jihad should start from your own person before you start to repair and show others the proper way?

i think that all matured ppl on the world know what is responsibility for their actions, words and feelings. they dont need to have a backup like religion to behave in proper way and respect others around.
 

---

Posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ) (Member # 10368) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
Onfortunately, the answer to Lady's question should be 'yes'.

Even Al-Azhar (from a textbook in 1999) teaches its students that Islam should be forced on people by djihad unless they are offered the message and accept it by peacefull means, believers of monotheistic faiths could refrain from converting by paying taxes (converting them was frowned upon since it would lower the income of the religious state). Djihad is a religious duty to a society not to an individual,unless there is only an individual to rely upon.

In an article by an Egyptian Dutch she gives two arguments. The historical djihad of Islam over the arabic peninsula and the world is learned in all arabic schools to children with facts and figures in history to be proud of.

Second (from lectures and books from Bassam Tibi a Syrian professor in international relations in Germany) all major classical Shia and Sunni judicial schools refer to this obligation. Even Al-Ghazali, who bridged between sufism and mainstream Islam is quoted likewise. All the texts are drawn from Islamic schoolers around the turn of the year 1000. And mentioned by others like Ibn Khaldoun in the 15th century.

The idea is in no way an Islamist or extremist idea but has been teached to mainstream believers in all countries.

There are only some intellectuals, merely in the 20th century who opposed of it, of which some were openly denouncing their faith.

Mahmoud Taha from Sudan, a reformist and writer was killed over his rejection of this Djihad. Al-Azhar proclaimed him a kafir and someone did the job. Taha suggested that only the quaranic texts from the first period in Mekka should be recognised als central to Islam, that would shut up these djihadists.

Bassam Tibi advises all muslims in the west to embrace western culture, these sort of orthodoxe doctrines are a danger to an open society.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
Glad you leave it to that Sultan!:-)
I bet we all believe in the inner Jihad.

---

peace be upon you, Damiana
How have you been?
I miss arguments here with you and Dalia*
I decided to be back to ES again

 

---

Posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ) (Member # 10368) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Egyptian_batman:
Carrying out Prayer (Prostration):

The only people in the whole world today who pray like Jesus (Peace and blessing be upon him), and all the other prophets are the Muslims:

1. Matthew 26:39 “He (Jesus) went a little farther and fell on his face, and prayed, O my father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will”.

2. Psalm 55:17 “Evening and morning and at noon, I will pray and cry aloud: and He shall hear my voice”.

3. Numbers 20:6 “So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and they fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them”.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
Oh no! Not again!:-)

---

Why not, damiana?
 

---

Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
Your yoking Sultan!:-)
Wish you a good night since I have to prepare for tomorrow.
 

---

Posted by LaZeeZ (Member # 10655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:

The idea is in no way an Islamist or extremist idea but has been teached to mainstream believers in all countries.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
[QB]

I am not sure about the taxes, never heard of such a thing in Egypt

---

quote:

---

but: they are second class citizens in Egypt and have different rights.

---

quote:

---

Besides let alone the different status of citizenship the article tells us

---

quote:

---

I don't need to prove this.

---

quote:

---

Where did you go to school and what did they tell you about the way Islam has been spread and how to be proud of that, disregarding christianity and obviously making a preference religion of Islam.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
Lazeez, you miss the point.

People from the book can avoid forced convertion by abiding to Islamic rules and paying taxes. Not be killed. Says the doctrine, that has been teached till today etcetera.

I am not sure about the taxes, never heard of such a thing in Egypt but: they are second class citizens in Egypt and have different rights.

Besides let alone the different status of citizenship the article tells us that all mainstream Islamic denominations teach their believers the orthodox doctrine still today since they follow this Judicial philosophers and imams from the time around 1000. Even Al-Azhar etcetera.

I don't need to prove this.

Where did you go to school and what did they tell you about the way Islam has been spread and how to be proud of that, disregarding christianity and obviously making a preference religion of Islam.

---

This is what ass kissing copts want the world & particulatly the USA to believe.... that they are second class citisens.
 

---

Posted by *Albino_Eskimo* (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chinderella on the Left wing:
This is what ass kissing copts want the world & particulatly the USA to believe.... that they are second class citisens.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:

This is benevolent Islamic rule? It is very unfortunate that we have to live with this in our day and age.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by *Albino_Eskimo*:

And when Copts do manage to get approval to build a church a gang of hoodlums go out and either protest or burn the church in construction down? I mean it doesn't happen every single time, but it happens alot.

---

quote:

---

And what part of the "Pact of Omar" is taken directly from the Final Prophet's (PBUH) own words?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
"false claim"

Is not helpfull either. Fooling around is confusing anyone and it will not be helpfull.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LaZeeZ:

quote:

---

Originally posted by *Albino_Eskimo*:

And when Copts do manage to get approval to build a church a gang of hoodlums go out and either protest or burn the church in construction down? I mean it doesn't happen every single time, but it happens alot.

---

LOL

Have you been to Egypt before?

quote:

---

And what part of the "Pact of Omar" is taken directly from the Final Prophet's (PBUH) own words?

---

Pact of Umar isn't recognized in Egypt law, is it?

It's not even authentic not it's from Umar nor the prophet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
You don't want to see the difference, where it is accountable for the flee of Egyptian Christians abroad. Yes, a lot of young people try to make a buck abroad, but a larger amount of Christians do so since they not only try to make a buck but also get more civil rights.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
You don't want to see the difference, where it is accountable for the flee of Egyptian Christians abroad. Yes, a lot of young people try to make a buck abroad, but a larger amount of Christians do so since they not only try to make a buck but also get more civil rights.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by *Albino_Eskimo*:
Egyptians put alot of currency behind the pact, which is the reason why so many churches that are authorized to be built are burnt by an angry mob

[/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
"This is what ass kissing copts want the world & particulatly the USA to believe.... that they are second class citisens"

Blaming is not helpfull either.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:


You don't want to see the difference Lazeez, or Chinderella, it comes with a price. [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by muslimman:
LaZeez, take it easy. Can u in clear way explain why you feel insulted by Demiana? Im losing the track here... what do you want to hear from others? that they are mistaken and they are stupid that havent followed islam yet? or what? just as simple as possible, maybe it will calm the whole mess here. thx. Salam

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chinderella on the Left wing:

quote:

---

Originally posted by muslimman:
LaZeez, take it easy. Can u in clear way explain why you feel insulted by Demiana? Im losing the track here... what do you want to hear from others? that they are mistaken and they are stupid that havent followed islam yet? or what? just as simple as possible, maybe it will calm the whole mess here. thx. Salam

---

Mulimmann, Lazeez & Demiana are not insluting each other at all.... they only disagree about this topic. Demiana is convinced that Copts have no rights here while Lazez is trying to correct her misconceptions.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
"misconceptions"

Keep up the sunny glasses.

---

You have misconceptions
 

---

Posted by LaZeeZ (Member # 10655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by *Albino_Eskimo*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chinderella on the Left wing:

quote:

---

Originally posted by muslimman:
LaZeez, take it easy. Can u in clear way explain why you feel insulted by Demiana? Im losing the track here... what do you want to hear from others? that they are mistaken and they are stupid that havent followed islam yet? or what? just as simple as possible, maybe it will calm the whole mess here. thx. Salam

---

Mulimmann, Lazeez & Demiana are not insluting each other at all.... they only disagree about this topic. Demiana is convinced that Copts have no rights here while Lazez is trying to correct her misconceptions.

---

Its not that Copts have no rights, they don't have the same level of freedom of religion and ability to build their careers as Muslims do in Egypt.

But Egypt isn't as bad as KSA in which no church stands and bringing a bible into KSA is not allowed.

Or how in Sweden Muslims have been trying for years to build a Mosque in the city centre of Stockholm.

Or in Denmark Islamic Schools haven't been given an official acceptance according to the standards of the Danish government, so they are shut down within months of years of opening.

There is so many injustices against Muslims in Europe, that governments and societies in the Middle East find it acceptable to restrict freedoms and societal elevations of Christians in the Middle East to compensate.

But is it right for the west or the east to carry on like this? Is it correct according to western Democracy or Islamic Principles? NO!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LaZeeZ:
Thank you Albino for pointing out to some the inconsistence within the western approach towards Muslims as well. those thing are usually ignored and all emphaises goes towards what Muslims do.

This being said, I can't agree with your sentence about religious freedom in Egypt , what religious freedom? Religion in Egypt is just a tool but the government shut down many mosques which say unpleasent things about the government and arrest many Muslim scholars.

I don't see any religious freedom even with controlled Church whethere the pope kisses the government ass alongside the grand shikh of Azhar.

The thing some non Egyptian need to understand is the clear and simple fact that Mubarak gives no damn about Islam, he isn't concerned in converting Christians to Islam.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by *Albino_Eskimo*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chinderella on the Left wing:

quote:

---

Originally posted by muslimman:
LaZeez, take it easy. Can u in clear way explain why you feel insulted by Demiana? Im losing the track here... what do you want to hear from others? that they are mistaken and they are stupid that havent followed islam yet? or what? just as simple as possible, maybe it will calm the whole mess here. thx. Salam

---

Mulimmann, Lazeez & Demiana are not insluting each other at all.... they only disagree about this topic. Demiana is convinced that Copts have no rights here while Lazez is trying to correct her misconceptions.

---

Its not that Copts have no rights, they don't have the same level of freedom of religion and ability to build their careers as Muslims do in Egypt.

But Egypt isn't as bad as KSA in which no church stands and bringing a bible into KSA is not allowed.

Or how in Sweden Muslims have been trying for years to build a Mosque in the city centre of Stockholm.

Or in Denmark Islamic Schools haven't been given an official acceptance according to the standards of the Danish government, so they are shut down within months of years of opening.

There is so many injustices against Muslims in Europe, that governments and societies in the Middle East find it acceptable to restrict freedoms and societal elevations of Christians in the Middle East to compensate.

But is it right for the west or the east to carry on like this? Is it correct according to western Democracy or Islamic Principles? NO!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chinderella non of ur Biz:
الله يخليك، انت مش دورك إنك تخلى كل الناس فى المنتدى ده يسلموا، كل واحد بيحب دينة و ذى ما أنت بتحب دينك، فحاول تحترم حرية و عقيدة الأخرين، بلاش بقى نلافيهم بيقولوا عليك إرهابى...... فى أجانب هنا مخهم ضيق و بيفسروا الحاجات دى غلط

إحترم إن فى أديان تانيه هنا غير الإسلام و الكلام ده بيضايقهم ذى ما بيضايقك لما حد مش بيحترم دينك

إنت
خليك مسلم كويس و ركز فى نفسك و خلاس

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Josh:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chinderella non of ur Biz:
الله يخليك، انت مش دورك إنك تخلى كل الناس فى المنتدى ده يسلموا، كل واحد بيحب دينة و ذى ما أنت بتحب دينك، فحاول تحترم حرية و عقيدة الأخرين، بلاش بقى نلافيهم بيقولوا عليك إرهابى...... فى أجانب هنا مخهم ضيق و بيفسروا الحاجات دى غلط

إحترم إن فى أديان تانيه هنا غير الإسلام و الكلام ده بيضايقهم ذى ما بيضايقك لما حد مش بيحترم دينك

إنت
خليك مسلم كويس و ركز فى نفسك و خلاس

---

Cindrella told him it's bad to be gay while ur muslim "for non arabic speakers"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ):
That's why scholars says Any Muslim revert MUST migrate to A muslim country.

THe christian in Egypt don't pay tax(Jizia), No?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by *Albino_Eskimo*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ):
That's why scholars says Any Muslim revert MUST migrate to A muslim country.

THe christian in Egypt don't pay tax(Jizia), No?

---

They did before Nassar and the Revolutionary Concil took over!

---

They should in The islamic country. SO Egypt is no longer governed by Islam.


 

---

Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
Churches pay taxes on their land where mosques don't.
 

---

Posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious (Member # 11915) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
There are specific rules and regulations where it is difficult to build organisations on religious grounds. New organisations will be followed very strict since the general idea is that it will promote gettoisation and a broader distance to the society at large. Even the copts in Amsterdam had their proposal for elementary school denied.
The trend is to do everything to make minorities connect to school, work and participation in society. This is even threathning to established christian schools, some politicians want a ban on the freedom to start a school on religious or other grounds.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
Churches pay taxes on their land where mosques don't.

---

let me know , from where did you get this?
It's the first time in My life i read this line.



YOu cant believe some one told you some lies then u keep publishing his lies her
 

---

Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
One truth will not wipe away a wrong Batman.
I know there are Christian schools in Egypt and I know there are Muslims attending them. I know the gouvernment of Egypt has guardians in front of each church. I know muslems and christians can have good relations as schoolmates, friends and neighbours. I know the rights of every Egyptian is suppressed by the state of law and the dictatorship of Mubarak.
 

---

Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
You should ask Egyptians related to the judicial system I guess. And preferrable the older generation, they have a better view of the legislation over the years, younger Egyptians might be more brainwashed. What I know I hear from my husband and his uncle who is a retired judge now.
 

---

Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
This reminds me of a debate I once had with some older ES member some years ago who would not believe that Christians can be discriminated at antique Islamic sites as happened to me and my husband. You should check out from the horses mouth and come back to tell here what you find.
So the right thing to do is find you someone that will inform you about the differences in legislations for Christians in the military, according to the handling of churches and the payment of the gouvernment for Islamic clergy compared to Christians. And whether Churches do or don't pay taxes compaired to mosques and anything else you might come up with.
And go to cityhall and ask them if it is alowd to change your faith on your identitycard when you converted to another religion. And then come back and tell us this is not the case.
 

---

Posted by LaZeeZ (Member # 10655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by *Albino_Eskimo*:
Those Muslim scholars you are refering to have not been granted a degree from any accredited school or college. They are like Sheik Sharawi if you remember him.

---

quote:

---

Its not about converting Christians to Islam, its about making life difficult for Copts so the masses recognize the Pharoah in charge is loyal to them, the Muslim majority.
[/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
What I know I hear from my husband [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious:
Damiana, HOw much the tax ?

IF you figure, u will get that the government pay for the church for protection( the gurad salary)

in islam\, muslim takes smaller money from the chritian to do proetct the minority to make them live freely to reassure their rights


10 pound in comparison for thousands ponds

why?
to proect less than 5 % of the people

what do christian want again?

most of the faithful christian convert to islam without anty forecing. becausethey find the supreme justice in Islam

Go figrue

---

Why do Christians need protecting in the first place?

Nothing to do with mobs burning down Churches does it?
 

---

Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
Glad you laid this out for us Batman. If you believe this is supreme justice you should read your own words again.
 

---

Posted by LaZeeZ (Member # 10655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
Don't blame me Lazeez.

Ask an Egyptian within in the judicial system that is knowledgeable about the legislation, preferrably someone from an older generation, or you may just have another laugh at those stupid christians and foreign wives. If that is what you want.

And of course come back and tell us.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LaZeeZ:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
Don't blame me Lazeez.

Ask an Egyptian within in the judicial system that is knowledgeable about the legislation, preferrably someone from an older generation, or you may just have another laugh at those stupid christians and foreign wives. If that is what you want.

And of course come back and tell us.

---

I did and they all say you're a liar

What else?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by *Albino_Eskimo*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious:
Damiana, HOw much the tax ?

IF you figure, u will get that the government pay for the church for protection( the gurad salary)

in islam\, muslim takes smaller money from the chritian to do proetct the minority to make them live freely to reassure their rights


10 pound in comparison for thousands ponds

why?
to proect less than 5 % of the people

what do christian want again?

most of the faithful christian convert to islam without anty forecing. becausethey find the supreme justice in Islam

Go figrue

---

Why do Christians need protecting in the first place?

Nothing to do with mobs burning down Churches does it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:

quote:

---

Originally posted by LaZeeZ:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
Don't blame me Lazeez.

Ask an Egyptian within in the judicial system that is knowledgeable about the legislation, preferrably someone from an older generation, or you may just have another laugh at those stupid christians and foreign wives. If that is what you want.

And of course come back and tell us.

---

I did and they all say you're a liar

What else?

---

You want a battle on credibility Lazeez?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Josh:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chinderella non of ur Biz:
الله يخليك، انت مش دورك إنك تخلى كل الناس فى المنتدى ده يسلموا، كل واحد بيحب دينة و ذى ما أنت بتحب دينك، فحاول تحترم حرية و عقيدة الأخرين، بلاش بقى نلافيهم بيقولوا عليك إرهابى...... فى أجانب هنا مخهم ضيق و بيفسروا الحاجات دى غلط

إحترم إن فى أديان تانيه هنا غير الإسلام و الكلام ده بيضايقهم ذى ما بيضايقك لما حد مش بيحترم دينك

إنت
خليك مسلم كويس و ركز فى نفسك و خلاس

---

Cindrella told him it's bad to be gay while ur muslim "for non arabic speakers"

---

What a horrible translation???!!! this is wrong
I didnt mention the word Gay here
 

---

Posted by Chinderella on the Left wing (Member # 11953) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious:
My mother was learning in a christian school. She was a muslim.
There are lots of chritian schools in egypt
Damiana, wat r u talking about?
Do u ever lived in egypt?

[/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ):
According to Shari'a( Islamic system), It's obligatory for christian living under the islamic system to pay Jizia( Tax).

This is the absolute justice.this is NOT a discrimination at all. The westerners see it's but in Fact it's not. before giving arguments on this point.

DO you know the reasons for it?
this q is for christian and Muslims.

Ps: 1-Jizia is not Huge sum of money.
2- Poor christian Must be excused and the islamic system is fair in this point.

---

quote:

---

Who would seriously want to live under the "Islamic system"?

---

quote:

---

It's obligatory for christian living under the islamic system to pay Jizia( Tax).

---

quote:

---

He ordered Muslims to believe in those books . BUT ONLY THE ORGINAL BOOKS NOT THE MODIFIED ONES

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ):

FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued


Yes, This is true. This is A Quranic verse.
Those people who God ordered Us to fight are the disbeliever of the christian and Jewish that want to spread Oppression among people.
GOd STRICTLY ordered us to Make Jihad and fight with them if they don't accept the condition of Islam to spread Justice.

---

quote:

---

GOd STRICTLY ordered us to Make Jihad and fight with them if they don't accept the condition of Islam to spread Justice.

---

quote:

---

If they are peacefully,We will make a compromise with them and live peacefully without Fighting

---

The verse didn't mention that ,it's clear fight who don't believe in Islam till believe or pay money in submission,so don't try to amend your said because we know and you know
 

---

Posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ) (Member # 10368) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by loveforever:

quote:

---

GOd STRICTLY ordered us to Make Jihad and fight with them if they don't accept the condition of Islam to spread Justice.

---

So can you tell us any Muslim country well known by Justice and their Citizens living in happiness?

And according to what you said you have to fight half the world because they are simply don't follow your relegion's teaching.

we are sorry for that ......

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by loveforever:

quote:

---

If they are peacefully,We will make a compromise with them and live peacefully without Fighting

---

The verse didn't mention that ,it's clear fight who don't believe in Islam till believe or pay money in submission,so don't try to amend your said because we know and you know

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
pray and fast, adress God, not men, you will get the answers you need.

---

quote:

---

Carrying out Prayer (Prostration):

The only people in the whole world today who pray like Jesus (Peace and blessing be upon him), and all the other prophets are the Muslims:

1. Matthew 26:39 “He (Jesus) went a little farther and fell on his face, and prayed, O my father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will”.

2. Psalm 55:17 “Evening and morning and at noon, I will pray and cry aloud: and He shall hear my voice”.

3. Numbers 20:6 “So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and they fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them”.

FASTING:

Islam obliges Muslims to fast just as Jesus and the prophets did during their tenure in the world:


1. Matthew 4:2 “And when he (Jesus) had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward hungry”.

2. Exodus 34: 28 “And he (Moses) was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water”.

3. Matthew 6:16 “Moreover when you fast, be not as the hypocrites, with a sad countenance; for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward”

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demiana:
Hope you had something nice for iftar Batman!:-)
It is allright to go by the instructions of your religion, although being forced is not in my book.
It is not allright to force others to abide by your faith Batman, it simply is not.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious:
u want live freely without any rules or commitmentswith God
What kind of crap is that?
why ru in the religion section?

y dont u go to living section?

stop feedig the religionsection wiz ur lies

---

quote:

---

by damiana
although being forced is not in my book

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious:
U kno Hynday accent the car

forget, i've my egyptian falaheen accent

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious:
like i said before, I dont befriend women and i dont fornicate. i ony believe in marriage relation betn man and woman.

i do force my self( makiing Jihad on myself) not to make Zena( fornication)


ودت الزانية لو يكون جميع النساء زواني مثلها
the prostitudes want all women in earth to be like her

---

I highly doubt that "the prostitutes" want anyone to experience the hell they endure. But since that is your perspective typical of every Egyptian guy..... and why a previous thread of yours on EM "Western women are sluts".

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Let me recant this book passage to you:

Siham was attractive, tall and slim, with smooth dark hair and

high cheekbones, and many young men admired her. Some amoungst

these were our Christian Palestinian friends who knoew they had

no chance with a Muslim girl. But, in any case, our father was

dead against her marrying at this stage. To our mother's

dismay, he shooed them all away. "My daughters are not for

marriage. they ahve theiar studies to attend to," he would

assert sternly. In this way all but the most thick-skinned

were put off. Once of these, a Muslim man from Nablus called Jaafar Yassin, who was in England studying law, persisted in his suit. He was a regular visitor to our house, and Siham and I avoided him whenever he came. He was stocky and short with jet-black frizzy hair. Coarse black hairs curled thickly over each of the knucklesof his fingers and when he came once wearing an open neck shirt a mat of black frizzy hair could be seen jutting out at the top. Siham and I nicknamed him "the gorila" and shuddered when we saw him. Our mother, however, was much encouraged by his persistance and spoke to Siham about it.

"Just ignore your father. What do you think of him yourself?"

Siham squealed with horror. "Ooh, I couldn't bear him! He's so ugly."
Our mother was put out. "And what have looks got to do with it?" she demanded. "A man's for being married to, not for displaying like an ornament!"

Though we burst out laughing, she was entirely serious. For, in that sentence, she had unwittingly epitomised the reality of Arab male-female relations, as she knew them. In the world where my mother grew up, and to a large extent even now, relations between the sexes were largely instrumental. When it came to marriage, men looked for a woman who was young, sound of boday and who could keep house and rear healthy children, while women wanted a man of any age and almost any appearance as long as he was respectable and could provide for them and the children they would have. The marriageability of both parties was assessed primarily on the basis of these qualities; love and compatibility, though they might exist at the beginning or develop later, were not essential to this arrangement. Actually, many arab men ave a patronising attitude to women, whom they regard as inferior, while the power imbalance between the sexes in Arab society ensures that women see men not as individuals but as pathways to social status and financial support. With fundamental matters like these at stake, it is no wonder that the men's looks or personal charm are the least of their concerns.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So are you a pathway to social status and financial support or a person Batty?
 

---

Posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ) (Member # 10368) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by loveforever:

quote:

---

He ordered Muslims to believe in those books . BUT ONLY THE ORGINAL BOOKS NOT THE MODIFIED ONES

---

so where are the original books now?

who collected the bible from the world during your prophet's time then modified and distributed to the world again after modification?

which people did that Jewish or christians?

which parts that had modified in the bible?

Many quetions you have to answer before accuseing another relegions without proof

AND AT THE END WHY GOD DIDN'T PRESERVES HIS WORDS IN THE PREVIOUS BOOKS?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious:
u hear my voice ya ganbarry Shrimps?

---

quote:

---

http://www.sultan.org/#i&c

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Egyptian_batman:
BELIEF IN THE ONENESS OF GOD (ALLAH):
Jesus was very explicit in his words about the “Unity of God” instead of the “Holy Trinity” which he never said nor preached in his lifetime:

1. Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you Satan! it is written:” you shall worship the Lord your God, and him only you shall serve”.

2. Mark 12:29 Jesus answered him. “The first of all the commandments is: Hear O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is one”.

3. Isiah 43:10-11 “Before me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior.”

4. John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and of Jesus Christ whom you have sent”.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Israel:
Loveforever,

it is funny that Sultan tries to talk about the Bible, and trys to trample on Christian belief in the trinity, founded upon Scripture(Old and New Testament), yet the Quran is hardly a historical book! The Bible has evidence, proof. It was recorded in the historical past that archealogists dig up and search for, finding evidence, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, and profane history such as the rise of Tarhakah, pharoah of Kush, recorded in the books of Kings, Chronicles(I think), Isaiah, etc. Hence, it confirms the histories of Assyria and Kush(Egypt) when those two empires warred against one another............

What I am saying is that the Bible is a recorder of historical events. The Quran doesn't come close..........Everyone from the Christians, Jews, PErsians, Sabians, etc., claim that Muhammad simply took from their legends, beliefs, scriptures, etc., and weaved them into a writing we now call the Koran. The Koran is embarrasingly unhistorical. I challenge Batman and Sultan to truly study the Koran to find historical authencity..........you will hardly find it except perhaps in the life of Muhammad. The Bible has been proven to be a historical book. The Koran is NOT the same at all...........Salaam

---

Hi Israel,

How about the fact that the Bible and the Quran are more than merely books to be compared as to which is the most historical? Both books are believed to contain guidance from Allah therefore it would make sense that they contain replicas and similarities in the content.

A Muslim believes that Allah sent many prophets to deliver his message:
043.006
YUSUFALI: But how many were the prophets We sent amongst the peoples of old?

It stands to reason that if the Prophets of the 3 major religions came from the One God, then the messages would be the same.

In the same Surah we have the ayat:

043.003
YUSUFALI: We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).

The Quran was originally delivered to the Arab people in the language that they understood, same as the Torah and Injeel were originally sent in the language of the people it was delivered to. Same message, different people and different languages.

I haven't read the posts of Sultan or Batman, however I don't agree with the effort to prove whose book is the right one. You can find tons of information on the net to disprove the authenticity of both books, but it's down to each of us what we want to believe.

“It's all a matter of interpretation, my dear Watson,”
 

---

Posted by bibo1978 (Member # 9287) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by loveforever:

quote:

---

It's obligatory for christian living under the islamic system to pay Jizia( Tax).

---

why they have to pay Jizya?
why only christians and Jewish?

what could happen if America and Britian do the same with Muslims?how could be the reaction of Muslims in the world?

if this a justice why it's mention in Quran Suran Altoba 9-verse29
to pay the Jizia in sumbmission otherwise they will be killed till believe in Islam

FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued

can you explain how could be JUSTICE?

---

quote:

---

they pay jizayah because they are not to be submitted to the army, if they are to join the force of army they don't have to pay jizyah..

---

quote:

---

In Egypt the 'zimmis' don't pay jizyah because they are sumbitted to the army.

---

Of course wrong because the Human rights institutions,united nation and of course America will not leave Egypt to do that,I didn't tell you that everything had changed and we are living in 2006
I hope it's clear now.
 

---

Posted by Sheikh_batman. (Member # 11915) on :
 
[Of course wrong because the Human rights institutions,united nation and of course America will not leave Egypt to do that,I didn't tell you that everything had changed and we are living in 2006]

kos omm america 3la kos omm il human right. let them go to Abu gharib they will find them treating Irq peapole like insect
we dont abuse chritistian. u know what they do in Abugharib, they let prsioner eat their stool.

Then u call Un and Human right, they are ass hoooles.

We dont abuse chrstian

We will fight the Un and Islam wil prevail ans spread Justic Like Sultan said in his post
 

---

Posted by Sheikh_batman. (Member # 11915) on :
 
Is that Un that Allow prsioner in Abu Gharib to force other prsoner to make homosexuality .

What do we do to the zimmi?

do we persecute them?



FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued

this verse is aboout those ass holole like Un that persecute Iraqis. we will make them suck their ass holes because they are criminal, dude

Quran is clear and we will fight to make justice prevails


loveforever . what kind of love do u have?
do u love to let iraqies **** them selves in prsiner under the action of torture. Do u love to see People is treated by High voltage electricity

Muslims will make Jihad to this fuccking assholes orgainization

we have the ultimate Justice, dude.

r u egy copt?
 

---

Posted by loveforever (Member # 11738) on :
 
calm down baby and don't use bad words because God is listening to you and there are many girls reading also.

you have left everything mentioned and only America who stressed you.

you say you don't abuse christians
so what about Aexandria and Al-kosheh events

you can read this report from CBN news
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/33300.aspx

you can search in google about the prsecution of christian in Egypt and you will find a huge data you don't know

please concetrate more about the issue instead talking about political and distracted the others.
 

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Posted by Sheikh_batman. (Member # 11915) on :
 
CBN news hah hah aha hahahahhahahahahah


u r egy copt?

let's make comparison between the claimed persecution of Copts and the true persecution of the irqis by Un


 

---

Posted by bibo1978 (Member # 9287) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by loveforever:

quote:

---

they pay jizayah because they are not to be submitted to the army, if they are to join the force of army they don't have to pay jizyah..

---

From where you got this explaination!!!

FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued

can you read the verse again to understand that the people of the books(christians and Jewish) have two options whether to fight Muslims because they don't follow Mohamed and the right religion (Islam)or to pay the Jizya to Muslims for avoiding to be killed and they have to pay it in submission and surrender.

your explaination is just moveing around the verse and to try convinceing non muslims by the merciful of the meaning.

I can tell you that today in 2006 AD and 1427 Hijri,everything had changed,you can't now convince 9 years old child by Isara amd Meraj story or the meeting between God and Mohamed ,you can't simply saying anything untill telling them logically explaination.

the people now became smart than before and they don't like the people who were living during Mohamed's time .

quote:

---

In Egypt the 'zimmis' don't pay jizyah because they are sumbitted to the army.

---

Of course wrong because the Human rights institutions,united nation and of course America will not leave Egypt to do that,I didn't tell you that everything had changed and we are living in 2006
I hope it's clear now.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MY NAME IS NO MORE .....,:
is this a personal issue or u love attacking him ,hey batman in one thread u had no accent riting and i know u didnt paste it i no people comment on my english but i cud swear u have changed accents 4times are u i assume u are ....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by loveforever:
can Aljazeera works with you

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/17129B86-C3FB-4B61-B789-2F6230C5369E.htm

---

i SEE WE OBLIGAET THEM TO MAKE HOMOSEXUALITY, GIVE THEM HIJGH VOLTAGE ELECTRIC SHOCK. UNDRESS THEM AND MAKE THEM GO NAKED. MAKE THEM HEAT THEIR STOOL AND OBLIGAET THEM TO ATE THE HEATED STOOL. WE ALSO RAPE THE WOMEN AND KILL THE CHILDREN

FORGET TO SAY, WE TIE THEM LIKE DOG ON THE NECK


 

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Posted by loveforever (Member # 11738) on :
 
yes you are doing these in your jails in Egypt,Syria,Iran...etc with Muslims and Non-muslims it became no difference now

Jesus said before take care from false prophets who will com after me in sheep clothes but they are wolves from inside, from their fruits you will know them .

you can read this file to know the fruits, may be you can see the truth once day.

http://islamlighthouse.com/admin/1sub/subjects/012enissub.pdf
 

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Posted by Sheikh_batman. (Member # 11915) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by loveforever:

Jesus said before take care from false prophets who will com after me in sheep clothes but they are wolves from inside, from their fruits you will know them .

---

i DOUBT IF HE SAID IT.

LETS' ASSUME HE SAID,

WHERE R THOSE FALSE 'PROPHETS'?? they must be more than one

hOW MANY FALSE PROPHETS CAME ?



which fruits r u talking about?

the propeht Muhammed is stiill found in your written bible. God makes people keep his name in the bible. dont you know that?


Btw, u cant believe ur bible that people write it themselves
 

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Posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ) (Member # 10368) on :
 
Muslims and 5 US Presidents do not agree with the trinity.

TV Evangelists claim that Allah, God of the Muslims, is not a real God and is not the same God of Christians. This is because the Christian god is the trinity. Muslims do not agree with the Christian doctrine of trinity or the divinity of Jesus. Millions of Christians reject this same doctrine. At least five Presidents of the USA: John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, Millard Fillmore, and William Howard Taft did not believe that Jesus was the son of god. They were Unitarians that respected the teachings of Jesus and rejected his divinity. Moreover, Sir Isaac Newton, the greatest scientist in the history, Lev Tolstoy, the giant of the Russian literature, and Johann Von Goethe, the greatest German writer (Goethe Institutes for teaching the German language exist in many parts of the world) did not agree with the trinity. Therefore, those TV Evangelists are either ignorant of their history or they do not tell the WHOLE TRUTH.





The following are the writings of the second US President John Adams:

[B]"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity." --John Adams

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"--John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson

“As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that has ever existed?" John Adams letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816.[\B]



The following are the writings of the third US President Thomas Jefferson (The writer of the US Declaration of Independence, and the signer of US Constitution):

The divine aspects of Christ were "the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills." --Jefferson in a letter to John Adams, January, 24, 1814.

“Among the sayings and discourses imputed to [Jesus] by His biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same Being. I separate, therefore, the gold from the dross; restore to Him the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, and roguery of others of His disciples. Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great . . . corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus.” --Jefferson in a letter William Short, April, 13, 1820.

Jefferson went so far as to produce a revised New Testament deleting all references to miracles and portraying Jesus as just an extraordinary man and a powerful moral leader.

It is very interesting that Thomas Jefferson, the writer of the US Constitution, purchased a copy of the Quran, and taught himself to read Arabic, and to know the basic Arabic grammars. It should be noted that Arabic is a Semitic language written from right to left as opposed to English which a Latin language written to left to right. It is suggested in this article that Thomas Jefferson went to all this work in the Quran and it language to study the Islamic Law to help him in his legal work! You be the judge!

Reference

Kane, Joseph Nathan. Facts About the Presidents (Fourth Edition). New York: The H. W. Wilson Co. (1981)

DeGregorio, William A. The Complete Book of U.S. Presidents (Second Edition). New York: Dembner Books (1989)

Kevin Hayes, “How Thomas Jefferson Read the Quran” Early American Literature; June 2004, Vol.39 Issue 2, P. 247

http://www.usislam.org/debate/Muslimsand5USPresidents.htm
 

---

Posted by loveforever (Member # 11738) on :
 

quote:

---

WHERE R THOSE FALSE 'PROPHETS'?? they must be more than one

---

I think you need to read more to understand how the world is going now.

Have you heard about the other Religions
Sikhism ,Buddhism,Hinduism....etc these religions called man made there are also many who claimed prophethood in America and Asia not only one or two even in Islam you don't know about Baha'ia,Drouz ...etc

Examples of such prophets include:

Nostradamus
Shirdi Sai Baba
Sathya Sai Baba
Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (Madame Blavatsky)
Deganawidah
Dan Evehema, Hopi Elder
Tupac Shakur
Mitar Tarabich
John Titor
Jeane Dixon
Richard Rossi
Hal Lindsey
Edgar Cayce
William Miller
Merlin the wizard
Mother Shipton
Elizabeth Clare Prophet
St Malachy - see Prophecy of the Popes
Ellen White

you can check the web Encyclopedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet

Read my friend instead of being hidden from the new informations and afraid of The God of Islam to hurt you because you are reading in another religions as you have been taught.

Don't afraid keep reading ,do your comparisonss,use your mind which is busy by useless stuff and the real God will help you to discover the truth like many others before you did the same and crossed the road to the ligh.
 

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Posted by crazyone (Member # 11660) on :
 
we need to find a wife for batty.... he is in drastic need for that.... the man is so bored he does not know what to do with himself anymore, matala3shi hammak 3aleina yasi khofassh
 

---

Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sheikh_batman.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by loveforever:

Jesus said before take care from false prophets who will com after me in sheep clothes but they are wolves from inside, from their fruits you will know them .

---

i DOUBT IF HE SAID IT.

LETS' ASSUME HE SAID,

WHERE R THOSE FALSE 'PROPHETS'?? they must be more than one

hOW MANY FALSE PROPHETS CAME ?



which fruits r u talking about?

the propeht Muhammed is stiill found in your written bible. God makes people keep his name in the bible. dont you know that?


Btw, u cant believe ur bible that people write it themselves

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Batman needs to understand that one person's belief system is not the same as the next persons. If he could respect that, it would save his needless attacks on Christianity. This equally applies to the fundamental Christian nutters on this forum. Your version of God is YOUR version of God. These are YOUR truths. They are facts to you, not anyone else. If you can't respect this, you have no right to demand respect from anyone else. [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sheikh_batman.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by loveforever:

Jesus said before take care from false prophets who will com after me in sheep clothes but they are wolves from inside, from their fruits you will know them .

---

i DOUBT IF HE SAID IT.

LETS' ASSUME HE SAID,
you either pasted this or your ENGLISH HAS DEFFINAELTY IMPROVED you keep changing your accents u sound one minuit so cokney then ur sound jamaican then its perfect english i dont get it ur either looking for a psage and pasting it or your messing around i thnkyour an old user under a dfferent name ......PLA THE GAME SHAKEYAHBATTY¬¬¬!!!!!!
WHERE R THOSE FALSE 'PROPHETS'?? they must be more than one

hOW MANY FALSE PROPHETS CAME ?



which fruits r u talking about?

the propeht Muhammed is stiill found in your written bible. God makes people keep his name in the bible. dont you know that?


Btw, u cant believe ur bible that people write it themselves

---

quote:

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
''I am not for fundamentalists whether muslims or christians ....... Have you seen "The Power of Nightmares" video that I submitted in the Politics Forum? It's about fundamentalism in both religions & both cultures east & west.'' Chinderella

No, I haven't seen it. Could you provide a link, please, Chinderella?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Many thanks. I'm going to watch it now.

---

Your welcome.... tell me what you think... I enjoyed watching it.

Enjoy
 

---

Posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ) (Member # 10368) on :
 
GOD's stupidity is smarter than all of us?!

1- Paul's blasphemous statement:

Let us read what Paul said in the corrupted Bible:

"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Corinthians 1:25)"

Let us analyze this foolish and blasphemous verse from Paul:

1- Regardless of how smart and stupid GOD and us humans are, our intelligence will never reach even the stupidity of GOD!

2- GOD is a fool.

3- GOD is weak.

4- Man is more foolish and weaker than GOD.

5- The comparison itself is very insulting and degrading to GOD Almighty. It is also limiting to Him since our finite and limited intelligence and strength were compared to His infinite Attributes.

Now before Christians jump and start telling me what Paul's "real" intentions were, I want to eliminate this nonsense of theirs altogether by telling them that Paul's intentions are not relevant here, even though it is quite obvious that he did INSULT GOD Almighty! So please, hold your horses, sit down, and don't spam my email address with your nonsense. The reason why his intentions are irrelevant, even though he is clearly a blasphemer, is because:

1- I am not discussing Paul's human-words, but rather GOD Almighty's supposed Divine Revelations! I don't care what humans say. I care about what is supposed to be GOD Almighty's Holy and Divine Revelations.

2- The verse above is crystal clear that it is Paul's stupidity that uttered such blasphemous words and not GOD Almighty's Divine Inspirations!

So again, Paul and his intentions are irrelevant here. It is the TEXT that is relevant, and whether or not the Bible is corrupt and altered by men.


But at any rate:



Paul did clearly insult GOD Almighty, and I challenge any polytheist trinitarian pagan to disprove it!





2- "Fool" is a forbidden word by Jesus! Paul clearly contradicted that:

It is truly funny how the word "fool" is forbidden upon Christians to use it against each others, and yet, Paul used it on the Creator of the Universe Himself!

Let us look at what Jesus said:

"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 5:22)"

Clearly, Paul contradicted Jesus' own commands by using this forbidden word on the Creator of the Universe Himself, blowing away every argument about him being a true apostle of GOD Almighty!





3- The Arabic Bible translators could not even dare to translate the word accurately!


From http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran_variant_readings_rebuttal.htm:

He wrote:

Advice to Zawadi: Men living in glasshouses shouldn’t pick up stones and throw them at others.



My response:

Our house is not made of glass. It is solid brick! Your house on the other hand, as I demonstrated above, is made from not only glass, but from paper as well where it can be blown away, washed away, and burnt away very quickly and easily.

Your Bible is not only a notorious book in contradictions and man's alterations in it, but it is also a notorious book in X-Rated Pornography, where it declares women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine". Ironically, there are "variant readings" in that as well.

Also, not only your gospel of porn is notorious in porn and corruption, but it is also notorious in stupidity as Paul declared that GOD Almighty's stupidity is smarter than all of us combined:

"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Corinthians 1:25)"

Note: Visit Paul's blasphemy and stupidity to see further proofs from GREEK where the most accurate translation of the word is actually STUPIDITY (moro in Greek)!

Ironically, when one reads the Arabic translation of this stupidity and blasphemy, he clearly sees that the liars translated "foolishness" to IGNORANCE (jahalah)! The reason for this is because in Arabic we don't have two words for foolish and stupid. They both mean one word and that is GHABI. Foolishness or stupidity mean GHABA'A. The Arabic translators COULD NOT DARE to use this word in their translations, because the Arabic words ghabi and/or ghaba'a are very offensive words!

To further prove this, let us consider Jesus' own words in the New Testament:

"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 5:22)"

Because the word is just way too offensive in the middle east, Jesus himself forbade it upon his followers! The verse is clearly saying that a Christian can not call another Christian "stupid", because the word is so offensive that it would bring the person closer to Hell Fire! That is why Jesus made such a big deal out of the word "fool" or "stupid", because it is just too serious. Yet, Paul used it on GOD Almighty Himself!

At any rate and as we clearly see, even in stupidity, Sam Shamoun's gospel of porn has some very ludicrous "variant readings" between language translations, which are no less than lies, in it, that render it quite absurd and pathetic!

This is quite hilarious indeed!





4- GOD Almighty would never declare such utter nonsense!

To me, GOD Almighty would never say that He has stupidity and weakness in Him. He would never declare that He is a fool! In fact, when we look at the GOD Almighty of the Noble Quran, we clearly and indisputably see a Sovereign and Almighty GOD who is above and beyond everyone. Let us look at what the True and Living GOD Almighty Said in the Noble Quran.

The sub-sections here are:

1- He is the Sovereign LORD over all of the Universe.
2- Do not profane His Holy Name.
3- Regarding Paul and his likes in the Noble Quran.




1- He is the Sovereign LORD over all of the Universe:

"God is He, than Whom there is no other god;- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to God! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him. (The Noble Quran, 59:23)"

"Whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare the Praises and Glory of God,- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (The Noble Quran, 62:1)"

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"The Jews say: "God's hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from God increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, God doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And God loveth not those who do mischief. (The Noble Quran, 5:64)"


2- Do not profane His Holy Name:

"Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides God, lest they out of spite revile God in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did. (The Noble Quran, 6:108)"

"The most beautiful names belong to God: so call on him by them; but shun such men as use profanity in his names: for what they do, they will soon be requited. (The Noble Quran, 7:180)"

"Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of God held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For God will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell:- (The Noble Quran, 4:140)"

"When thou seest men engaged in vain discourse about Our signs, turn away from them unless they turn to a different theme. If Satan ever makes thee forget, then after recollection, sit not thou in the company of those who do wrong. (The Noble Quran, 6:68)"

"And make not God's (name) an excuse in your oaths against doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons; for God is One Who heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:224)"

"God! there is no god but He! To Him belong the most Beautiful Names. (The Noble Quran, 20:8)"

"He is God, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (The Noble Quran, 59:24)"

"He is God, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (The Noble Quran, 59:24)"

They are 99 Holy Names and Attributes.


3- Regarding Paul and his likes:

"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:79)"

"Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against God, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what God hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),"Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against God, and scornfully to reject of His signs!" (The Noble Quran, 6:93)"

"O ye who believe! If ye listen to a faction among the People of the Book, they would (indeed) render you apostates after ye have believed! (The Noble Quran, 3:100)"

"O ye who believe! Fear God as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam. (The Noble Quran, 3:102)"

"O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 3:118)"





5- Conclusion:

I hope this article has clearly demonstrated and proven that Paul is no more than a liar who was deceived by satan. There is no question that the Bible had been altered by men's lies, and it is indeed a corrupted book! Calling GOD Almighty a "fool" and "weak" is clear blasphemy! Anyone who argues against this becomes as blasphemous as Paul himself.

Paul, the liar, thought he was giving a proverb; a wisdom. He didn't realize that his lie of claiming to be an apostle from GOD Almighty ended here, and that he has exposed himself very badly with this blasphemous "proverb" of his.

The stupidity of GOD is smarter than all of us combined?! Give me a break!!

Do we have to praise GOD Almighty through insulting Him??

By the way, Paul did in the past call disbelievers, who are supposedly doomed to Hell, as "holy men"! Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/baptism_rebuttal.htm and see my rebuttal to Sam Shamoun and how I have exposed his deceptive methods and the absurdity of Paul and the New Testament.

Truly, the gospel of porn (the book of women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine") is a corrupt book that was inspired by satan. May He, the Almighty, burn that liar and blasphemer, Paul, in Hell for Eternity! Ameen.
 

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Posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ) (Member # 10368) on :
 
See in Quran How God is saying
Let's mediate on these two verse deeply:

179 Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).
180 The most beautiful names belong to Allah. so call on him by them; but shun such men as use profanity in his names: for what they do, they will soon be requited.

Sura Al-Araf
 

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Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ):
Why did the GOD of Islam allow for the "original" Bible to get corrupted or lost?

Before I answer this question from the Islamic perspective, we must first know that the Bible itself admits that it is a corrupted Book from the introduction above. Please visit Just who were the real authors of the Bible? and History of man's tampering with the Old Testament.

Let us see what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding the validity and the reliability of the Bible:

Narrated AbuNamlah al-Ansari: "When he was sitting with the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and a Jew was also with him, a funeral passed by him. He (the Jew) asked (Him): Muhammad, does this funeral speak? The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah has more knowledge. The Jew said: It speaks.

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Whatever the people of the Book [Jews and Christians] tell you, do not verify them, nor falsify them, but say: We believe in Allah and His Apostle. If it is false, do not confirm it, and if it is right, do not falsify it. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Knowledge (Kitab Al-Ilm), Book 25, Number 3637)"

The following two Sayings of our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him were sent to me by Yusif 65; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:

Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"

Narrated Abu Huraira: "The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Apostle said (to the Muslims). 'Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.' ' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 460)"

As we clearly see in the above Sayings of our beloved Prophet peace be upon him, the source that the Jews and Christians use (i.e. the Bible or any other religious source such as their Popes', Rabbis or other religious people's verdicts) must be ignored because it is not reliable. As we've seen in the above introduction, the man-made scribes (laws) had corrupted the Bible and turned it "into a lie" (Jeremiah 8:8).

According to Islam, Allah Almighty (GOD Almighty) in the Bible promised those who try to tamper His Words in the Bible to face hell fire, because He knew that it was going to happen. He gave the people of the book (Jews and Christians) a chance/test and they simply blew it!. Today, there is no one Bible!. The number of Books/Gospels in the Roman Catholics Bible for instance is different from the King James Version Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Jehovah's Witnesses Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Mormon's Bible, etc... Look at Noble Verse 5:13 from the Noble Quran: "But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (Jews and Christians) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others)." Israel, when it lost Allah Almighty's grace, began to sin against truth and religion in three ways: (1) they began to misuse Scripture itself, by either taking words out of their right meaning, or applying them to things for which they were never meant; (2) in doing so, they conveniently forgot a part of the Message and purpose of Allah; and (3) they invented new deceits to support the old ones.

Let us look at Noble Verse 5:41 "O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment."

Please visit History of man's corruption in the Bible for more details. Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran on the other hand, did promise that He will personally guard the Noble Quran from corruption. He never promised hell fire to anyone who tries to tamper His words in the Noble Quran. He will guard it Himself; "We (Allah) have, without a doubt, sent down the Message (The Quran); and We (Allah) will assuredly Guard it [from corruption]. (The Noble Quran, 15:9)." Today we have only one Arabic Noble Quran.

Visit: The lie of 1 John 5:7, where it was later discovered to be a man made corruption inserted into the Bible.

"Son of GOD" conflict between the Bible and the Noble Quran.

How is Allah Almighty telling the Jews and Christians to follow their Books when these Books had been corrupted?

Do the errors in the Bible prove that the Noble Quran is not from GOD?

What parts of the Bible do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth? and Why?

Did Prophet Muhammad recognize the Bible as an error-free book?



A continuation to my answer from sister Jacqueline S. Waheed; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with her:

The above question has [THREE] parts, so let us see the answers
accordingly. To answer the part ["Muslims believe that the current Bible is
not all the true word of GOD, and only the Quran is"] Yes, Muslims believes
that current bible [OT &NT] is not the one[s], which God [Allaah] almighty
gave to Moses and Jesus [peace be upon them]. But it is also verified and confirmed by
Noble Qur'aan, which is the main source of Muslims' belief. If you read OT,
NT, and Noble Qur'aan, it will become obvious that all missing links in the
bible are found in Noble Qur'aan and it makes undeniable sense. That is why
once one explore the Noble Qur'aan with its entirety in almost all cases it
is inevitable for him/her to not say the Shahada.

To respond to the second part of question ["If so, then why did the GOD of
Islam allow for His Words to get corrupted in the Bible?"] "If so" is
hardly the case here, beside that one cannot blame the God [Allaah] The
Creator, all Knower, and all Seer of all heavens and earth for allowing His
words to be corrupted. Such blame ONLY represents a typical frivolous
product liability lawsuit mentality. That will not work in this UNIQUE
case, because the God [Allaah], has already replaced the abused and
tempered [by human] product with far SUPERIOR [product] the Final
Revelation *****THE NOBLE QUR'AAN***** Which by the way is another
testament of God's existence that He not only can save His word, but again
He can give mankind a chance to correct himself and follow his true word
[The Noble Qur'aan] to be saved. Because God [Allah] is the Most Beneficent
and Most Merciful.

To answer the last part of question ["or why did He allow for the original
copy of the Bible to be lost?"]. Again in this part we see the frivolous
product liability lawsuit mentality. Having said that God [Allaah] did not
allow [original] copy to be lost. It was the keepers of bible[OT & NT] who
tempered it and hide many facts that resulted in current bible not making
any sense. Which by the way is also confirmed by God [Allaah] in Noble
Qur'aan and I quote:

005.015
YUSUFALI: O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger,
revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over
much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new)
light and a perspicuous Book, -
PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you,
expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture,
and forgiving much. now hath come unto you light from Allah and plain
Scripture,
SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you
making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over
much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;

Followed by God [Allaah] emphasizing in Noble Qur'aan [next verse]:

005.016
YUSUFALI: Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of
peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the
light,- guideth them to a path that is straight.
PICKTHAL: Whereby Allah guideth him who seeketh His good pleasure unto
paths of peace. He bringeth them out of darkness unto light by His decree,
and guideth them unto a straight path.
SHAKIR: With it Allah guides him who will follow His pleasure into the ways
of safety and brings them out of utter darkness into light by His will and
guides them to the right path.

Bottom line is that as question itself indicates by use of [words]
"original copy" which is highly inappropriate in this case. However,
implication by virtue of question is absurd. Because FORENSIC AND EMPIRICAL
RESULTS proves that MASTER COPY [or SOURCE CODE] was never lost nor
tempered. It was and it has always been in possession of God [Allaah] the
Creator of all heaven and earth. It further proves the existence of ONE and
ONLY God [Allaah] the all Knower and all Seer who way ahead foretold to
Jews and Christians in OT and NT about the arrival of Prophet Muhammed
[saw] and commanded Jews and Christians to follow Prophet Muhammed [saw].

Noble Qur'aan 3:64! Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews
and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we
worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and
that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh[]. Then, if they
turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."

Noble Qur'aan 3:85! And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will
never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the
losers[].

Example: If Johnny writes a letter to Marry Joe and saves it. That Marry
Joe later edits and/or modify claiming to be original letter by Johnny.
That can be proven wrong by Johnny because he got the master copy. So to
make Marry Joe looks like a fool and a liar all Johnny has to do is to give
another copy of Jean Doe to show the people that she [Marry Joe] is lying.
It pretty bad, for Marry Joe, isn't it?

source
http://www.answering-christianity.com/que3.htm

---

Sultan, I asked Batman a question. Maybe you can answer it. Here it is...................

Batman,

Dude, you don't know what you are talking about! Seriously! I asked you a while ago about the "abrogations" found in the Koran. How come you never answered me? I will ask you again. Why is it that the Koran tells Christians and Jews in Surah 2 that they will be ok as long as they do good works, etc., but then in another Surah, it then says that Islam is the only religion? Why? Why does allah change his mind? According to the Bible, the God says, "I the Lord do not change"...book of Malachi. God doesn't change his word. So why does allah change his? Why? Does that mean that prior to the abrogation of Surah two that Christians and Jews were able to enter the Muslim heaven and have 72 virgins? I mean, before Muhammad said that allah changed his mind, he told Jews and Christians that they were ok, yet he changes..............I don't understand? Acutually I do understand. But i am not here to disrespect you and or anybody here. But when you try to challenge my faith, I have the knowledge to challenge yours. We can go deeper than this simple argument if you want.........Salaam


Please answer my question about your Koran..........If you can't answer my question about the incoherence of the Koran, then don't spew a pseudo-religious ideology about the Bible. Salaam.
 

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Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
I don't understand the need to slay holy books of others. There is a difference between being passionate about one's religion or faith and being rigid and righteous. All about insecurities I guess.
 

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Posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God) (Member # 11915) on :
 
[I don't understand the need to slay holy books of others.]
becuz this is a debate, Damiana, dont u see the topic name

[ There is a difference between being passionate about one's religion or faith and being rigid and righteous]
what's the differnec?

[I will ask you again. Why is it that the Koran tells Christians and Jews in Surah 2 that they will be ok as long as they do good works,]

what's it? let me take a look and i will get you the full tafseer(explaination)
 

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Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
Why the need to be argumentative and degrading of others?
 

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Posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God) (Member # 11915) on :
 
[Why the need to be argumentative and degrading of others?]
this is a forum u understand it
 

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Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
To your standards it is.
 

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Posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God) (Member # 11915) on :
 
[To your standards it is.]
and to your standards it is not
 

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Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
Right
 

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Posted by Chinderella Ideal Stnrd Shower head (Member # 11953) on :
 
OMG, why such loooooooong posts? when i see huge posts like that I tend to ignore them


Take my advice... if you want your post to be read & get your point accross...... then please make shorter posts in your own words & with a reference to a link rather than copying & pasting.

I just get lost in a pretty huge thread & i cant read everything
 

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Posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God) (Member # 11915) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chinderella Ideal Stnrd Shower head:
OMG, why such loooooooong posts? when i see huge posts like that I tend to ignore them


Take my advice... if you want your post to be read & get your point accross...... then please make shorter posts in your own words & with a reference to a link rather than copying & pasting.

I just get lost in a pretty huge thread & i cant read everything

---

:confused:ana? betkallemeny ana?
 

---

Posted by Chinderella Ideal Stnrd Shower head (Member # 11953) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God):

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chinderella Ideal Stnrd Shower head:
OMG, why such loooooooong posts? when i see huge posts like that I tend to ignore them


Take my advice... if you want your post to be read & get your point accross...... then please make shorter posts in your own words & with a reference to a link rather than copying & pasting.

I just get lost in a pretty huge thread & i cant read everything

---

:confused:ana? betkallemeny ana?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NotSleeplessInCairo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Israel:
Loveforever,

it is funny that Sultan tries to talk about the Bible, and trys to trample on Christian belief in the trinity, founded upon Scripture(Old and New Testament), yet the Quran is hardly a historical book! The Bible has evidence, proof. It was recorded in the historical past that archealogists dig up and search for, finding evidence, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, and profane history such as the rise of Tarhakah, pharoah of Kush, recorded in the books of Kings, Chronicles(I think), Isaiah, etc. Hence, it confirms the histories of Assyria and Kush(Egypt) when those two empires warred against one another............

What I am saying is that the Bible is a recorder of historical events. The Quran doesn't come close..........Everyone from the Christians, Jews, PErsians, Sabians, etc., claim that Muhammad simply took from their legends, beliefs, scriptures, etc., and weaved them into a writing we now call the Koran. The Koran is embarrasingly unhistorical. I challenge Batman and Sultan to truly study the Koran to find historical authencity..........you will hardly find it except perhaps in the life of Muhammad. The Bible has been proven to be a historical book. The Koran is NOT the same at all...........Salaam

---

Hi Israel,

How about the fact that the Bible and the Quran are more than merely books to be compared as to which is the most historical? Both books are believed to contain guidance from Allah therefore it would make sense that they contain replicas and similarities in the content.

A Muslim believes that Allah sent many prophets to deliver his message:
043.006
YUSUFALI: But how many were the prophets We sent amongst the peoples of old?

It stands to reason that if the Prophets of the 3 major religions came from the One God, then the messages would be the same.

In the same Surah we have the ayat:

043.003
YUSUFALI: We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).

The Quran was originally delivered to the Arab people in the language that they understood, same as the Torah and Injeel were originally sent in the language of the people it was delivered to. Same message, different people and different languages.

I haven't read the posts of Sultan or Batman, however I don't agree with the effort to prove whose book is the right one. You can find tons of information on the net to disprove the authenticity of both books, but it's down to each of us what we want to believe.

“It's all a matter of interpretation, my dear Watson,”

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ):
GOD's stupidity is smarter than all of us?!

1- Paul's blasphemous statement:

Let us read what Paul said in the corrupted Bible:

"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Corinthians 1:25)"

Let us analyze this foolish and blasphemous verse from Paul:

1- Regardless of how smart and stupid GOD and us humans are, our intelligence will never reach even the stupidity of GOD!

2- GOD is a fool.

3- GOD is weak.

4- Man is more foolish and weaker than GOD.

5- The comparison itself is very insulting and degrading to GOD Almighty. It is also limiting to Him since our finite and limited intelligence and strength were compared to His infinite Attributes.

Now before Christians jump and start telling me what Paul's "real" intentions were, I want to eliminate this nonsense of theirs altogether by telling them that Paul's intentions are not relevant here, even though it is quite obvious that he did INSULT GOD Almighty! So please, hold your horses, sit down, and don't spam my email address with your nonsense. The reason why his intentions are irrelevant, even though he is clearly a blasphemer, is because:

1- I am not discussing Paul's human-words, but rather GOD Almighty's supposed Divine Revelations! I don't care what humans say. I care about what is supposed to be GOD Almighty's Holy and Divine Revelations.

2- The verse above is crystal clear that it is Paul's stupidity that uttered such blasphemous words and not GOD Almighty's Divine Inspirations!

So again, Paul and his intentions are irrelevant here. It is the TEXT that is relevant, and whether or not the Bible is corrupt and altered by men.


But at any rate:



Paul did clearly insult GOD Almighty, and I challenge any polytheist trinitarian pagan to disprove it!





2- "Fool" is a forbidden word by Jesus! Paul clearly contradicted that:

It is truly funny how the word "fool" is forbidden upon Christians to use it against each others, and yet, Paul used it on the Creator of the Universe Himself!

Let us look at what Jesus said:

"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 5:22)"

Clearly, Paul contradicted Jesus' own commands by using this forbidden word on the Creator of the Universe Himself, blowing away every argument about him being a true apostle of GOD Almighty!





3- The Arabic Bible translators could not even dare to translate the word accurately!


From http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran_variant_readings_rebuttal.htm:

He wrote:

Advice to Zawadi: Men living in glasshouses shouldn’t pick up stones and throw them at others.



My response:

Our house is not made of glass. It is solid brick! Your house on the other hand, as I demonstrated above, is made from not only glass, but from paper as well where it can be blown away, washed away, and burnt away very quickly and easily.

Your Bible is not only a notorious book in contradictions and man's alterations in it, but it is also a notorious book in X-Rated Pornography, where it declares women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine". Ironically, there are "variant readings" in that as well.

Also, not only your gospel of porn is notorious in porn and corruption, but it is also notorious in stupidity as Paul declared that GOD Almighty's stupidity is smarter than all of us combined:

"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Corinthians 1:25)"

Note: Visit Paul's blasphemy and stupidity to see further proofs from GREEK where the most accurate translation of the word is actually STUPIDITY (moro in Greek)!

Ironically, when one reads the Arabic translation of this stupidity and blasphemy, he clearly sees that the liars translated "foolishness" to IGNORANCE (jahalah)! The reason for this is because in Arabic we don't have two words for foolish and stupid. They both mean one word and that is GHABI. Foolishness or stupidity mean GHABA'A. The Arabic translators COULD NOT DARE to use this word in their translations, because the Arabic words ghabi and/or ghaba'a are very offensive words!

To further prove this, let us consider Jesus' own words in the New Testament:

"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 5:22)"

Because the word is just way too offensive in the middle east, Jesus himself forbade it upon his followers! The verse is clearly saying that a Christian can not call another Christian "stupid", because the word is so offensive that it would bring the person closer to Hell Fire! That is why Jesus made such a big deal out of the word "fool" or "stupid", because it is just too serious. Yet, Paul used it on GOD Almighty Himself!

At any rate and as we clearly see, even in stupidity, Sam Shamoun's gospel of porn has some very ludicrous "variant readings" between language translations, which are no less than lies, in it, that render it quite absurd and pathetic!

This is quite hilarious indeed!





4- GOD Almighty would never declare such utter nonsense!

To me, GOD Almighty would never say that He has stupidity and weakness in Him. He would never declare that He is a fool! In fact, when we look at the GOD Almighty of the Noble Quran, we clearly and indisputably see a Sovereign and Almighty GOD who is above and beyond everyone. Let us look at what the True and Living GOD Almighty Said in the Noble Quran.

The sub-sections here are:

1- He is the Sovereign LORD over all of the Universe.
2- Do not profane His Holy Name.
3- Regarding Paul and his likes in the Noble Quran.




1- He is the Sovereign LORD over all of the Universe:

"God is He, than Whom there is no other god;- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to God! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him. (The Noble Quran, 59:23)"

"Whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare the Praises and Glory of God,- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (The Noble Quran, 62:1)"

"Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"The Jews say: "God's hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from God increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, God doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And God loveth not those who do mischief. (The Noble Quran, 5:64)"


2- Do not profane His Holy Name:

"Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides God, lest they out of spite revile God in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did. (The Noble Quran, 6:108)"

"The most beautiful names belong to God: so call on him by them; but shun such men as use profanity in his names: for what they do, they will soon be requited. (The Noble Quran, 7:180)"

"Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of God held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For God will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell:- (The Noble Quran, 4:140)"

"When thou seest men engaged in vain discourse about Our signs, turn away from them unless they turn to a different theme. If Satan ever makes thee forget, then after recollection, sit not thou in the company of those who do wrong. (The Noble Quran, 6:68)"

"And make not God's (name) an excuse in your oaths against doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons; for God is One Who heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:224)"

"God! there is no god but He! To Him belong the most Beautiful Names. (The Noble Quran, 20:8)"

"He is God, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (The Noble Quran, 59:24)"

"He is God, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (The Noble Quran, 59:24)"

They are 99 Holy Names and Attributes.


3- Regarding Paul and his likes:

"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:79)"

"Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against God, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what God hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),"Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against God, and scornfully to reject of His signs!" (The Noble Quran, 6:93)"

"O ye who believe! If ye listen to a faction among the People of the Book, they would (indeed) render you apostates after ye have believed! (The Noble Quran, 3:100)"

"O ye who believe! Fear God as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam. (The Noble Quran, 3:102)"

"O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 3:118)"





5- Conclusion:

I hope this article has clearly demonstrated and proven that Paul is no more than a liar who was deceived by satan. There is no question that the Bible had been altered by men's lies, and it is indeed a corrupted book! Calling GOD Almighty a "fool" and "weak" is clear blasphemy! Anyone who argues against this becomes as blasphemous as Paul himself.

Paul, the liar, thought he was giving a proverb; a wisdom. He didn't realize that his lie of claiming to be an apostle from GOD Almighty ended here, and that he has exposed himself very badly with this blasphemous "proverb" of his.

The stupidity of GOD is smarter than all of us combined?! Give me a break!!

Do we have to praise GOD Almighty through insulting Him??

By the way, Paul did in the past call disbelievers, who are supposedly doomed to Hell, as "holy men"! Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/baptism_rebuttal.htm and see my rebuttal to Sam Shamoun and how I have exposed his deceptive methods and the absurdity of Paul and the New Testament.

Truly, the gospel of porn (the book of women's vaginas and breasts taste like "wine") is a corrupt book that was inspired by satan. May He, the Almighty, burn that liar and blasphemer, Paul, in Hell for Eternity! Ameen.

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quote:

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Originally posted by loveforever:
yes you are doing these in your jails in Egypt,Syria,Iran...etc with Muslims and Non-muslims it became no difference now

Jesus said before take care from false prophets who will com after me in sheep clothes but they are wolves from inside, from their fruits you will know them .

you can read this file to know the fruits, may be you can see the truth once day.

http://islamlighthouse.com/admin/1sub/subjects/012enissub.pdf

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quote:

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Just tell me what fruit did christianity offered to the world, is in it the crusaide and the inquisition, we have a better record than yours we have always developed human nature to the best

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when we are talking about this standard that Jesus put to examine the false prophet then we have to apply it on the teaching of the prophet and what the religion is teaching the followers to do.

When you check the Gospel/Injeel you will not find anything inciting to kill or fighting in wars against anybody but unlike that you will find Jesus teaching to love your enemy and to bless who cursing you and I think you have debated with so many before and you are fully aware about what inside the Gospel and the teaching about the love and the peaceful.

Then when you talking about the cross crusade was the fruits of Christianity it means you are cheating yourself first and your Muslims readers second.

Because you are aware that who did these wars they were not following the teaching of Jesus and the cross that was putting on their banners was not a sign of war but was a sign of redemption and the sacrifice of Jesus for others,then it's clear that they put the cross for their desires only and to give their wars the religion colour

Therefore your example is fully wrong because is not related to Jesus's teaching.

And when you talk that you have developed human natures
Just give me one example from the Muslims country surrounding us and to check how their citizens are living and how they are treated from their dictator's governments

so now would you like to talk about Quran and Mohamed's teaching to check if Muslims is following the teaching of their prophet or not?

Note that our homes are from the steel that christians discovered and Manufactured not from the glass that we also discovered
 

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Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
I am sure both Christians and Muslems added to knowledge and prosperity of mankind. This remark about the fruits is just helping in deciding if something is to the benefit or not in all sort of situations. And then change your ways. Not demonize.
 

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Posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God) (Member # 11915) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by loveforever:
when we are talking about this standard that Jesus put to examine the false prophet then we have to apply it on the teaching of the prophet and what the religion is teaching the followers to do.

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WHERE IS THOSE STANDARDS? THOSE IN THE BOOK OF VAGINAS AND BREASTS LIKE WINE. OR THOSE THAT IN WHIHC POAUL INSULTS gOD SAYING GOD IS STUPID

quote:

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When you check the Gospel/Injeel you will not find anything inciting to kill or fighting in wars against anybody but unlike that you will find Jesus teaching to love your enemy

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lOVE THE ENEMY AND LET HIM KILL YOU. DONT DEFEND YOURSELF

quote:

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not following the teaching of Jesus

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quote:

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Just give me one example from the Muslims country surrounding us and to check how their citizens are living and how they are treated from their dictator's governments

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YOU REPLIED TO YOURSELF WHEN U SAID ABOUT THE CRUSADE WAR " not following the teaching of Jesus"

MUSLIMS DONT FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF GOD

quote:

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so now would you like to talk about Quran and Mohamed's teaching to check if Muslims is following the teaching of their prophet or not?

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YES I WOULD LIKE TO BUT BEFORE YOU REPLY TO THE ABOVE INSULTING OF GOD IN THE ABOVE ARGUMENT OF SULTAN. U CALL GOD STUPID

quote:

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Note that our homes are from the steel that christians discovered and Manufactured not from the glass that we also discovered

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quote:

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I am sure both Christians and Muslems added to knowledge and prosperity of mankind.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Demiana:
"But what I hate is their desire to impose their traditions of Islam on everyone like in Saudi or Iran, their idea that their religion is the right one and the others is wrong and corrupted, their opinion about Christians that all of them are worshipping three Gods and they will go to hell, their attempts to stop the free pens for saying their opinions about Mohamed and Islam."

I am sure if not already there are a lot of muslems (for sure some of the elder generations) that will come back from this considering the results. Some just like to hang out Islamism to feel good, just insecurities. I am sure it can be pretty annoying.

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quote:

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"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Corinthians 1:25)"

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quote:

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WHERE IS THOSE STANDARDS? THOSE IN THE BOOK OF VAGINAS AND BREASTS LIKE WINE

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quote:

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YOUR BOOK IS A MIX OF ADULTERY AND LIES ANY ONE CAN GET IT EASILY

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quote:

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MUSLIMS DONT FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF GOD

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quote:

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GET A VERSE LIKE QURAN HERE, WE WILL NOT KILL YOU.

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quote:

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Do you think that Paul was preaching and worshiping stupid God and was preaching that to the people around the world? Is not funny what you want to prove?

First this was mentioned in the message of Paul to Corinthians people.

Paul was talking about the stupidity of the Jewish and the Greek for their thinking about how the death of Jesus on the cross will give them the salvation?

They thought that this is a foolishness from God to do that.
Paul used their way and told them that even if they think that this a foolishness from God it will be wisdom than their thinking.

I think this may give a good answer or you will be like the Jewish and the Greek my friend?

Isn't mentioned in Quran that God is cunning and sly?

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quote:

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ROFL, Thet took some word of some stuff oF QUran and adding of lots of weird stuff. I think the author of this book dont understand what ther are writing. they wrote some weird stuff illogcal stuff.

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quote:

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Paul in fire?

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quote:

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Originally posted by loveforever:


http://www.islam-exposed.org

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ROFL ROFL


look at this
http://www.islam-exposed.org/furqan/pages/24.jpg



this book is full of jokes.




 

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Posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God) (Member # 11915) on :
 
I'm reading the adultery chapter
http://www.islam-exposed.org/furqan/132.html

ROFL ROFL ROFL
 

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Posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God) (Member # 11915) on :
 
http://www.islam-exposed.org/furqan/27.html

what u call say about it self, that it's non-sense

ROFL ROFL ROFL
 

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Posted by loveforever (Member # 11738) on :
 

quote:

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ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

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quote:

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servant
u mean the light of insulting God " the stupid God like Paul describe"

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quote:

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Originally posted by Demiana:
Allright, enough now. No need to go on and on talking dirty in this holy month. We need some good manners here.

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quote:

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Israel said
lets REASON like human beings

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quote:

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
Mohammed was a pedophile ,we know that. he was married to a 9 year old.

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quote:

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Or u wanna me to say about wine like breasets and vaginas and turned to Porn

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quote:

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Originally posted by Israel:
[ states that Christians and Jews, as long as they do good deeds, etc., will be fine on the Day of Judgment................Yet, in another Surah, Muhammad says that now only Islam is the way.[/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by loveforever:
Thanks to you Servant, your words really calming down, we hope everyone to read the bible first before debating on ignorance, on that time it will be useful for everyone.

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ok
let's read it first

here's some of my favourite verses



If you see a pretty woman among the captives and would like her for a wife, then just bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can "let her go." 21:11-14


You can't go to church if your testicles are damaged or your penis has been cut off. 23:1

Samson wants to have sex with his wife in the bedroom, but his father won't let him. 15:1

"Then went Samson to Gaza, and saw there an harlot, and went in unto her." 16:1

The sons of Eli had sex with women "at the door of the tabernacle." 2:22

Since women are inherently dirty, the woman that "pleased the king" the most must be "purified" for twelve months before she can be made queen. 2:9-12
Psalms


Let her breasts satisfy thee at all times." 5:18


"Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins." 4:5

"We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts ... But my breasts [are] like towers." 8:8-10
Isaiah

God tells Isaiah to take off all his clothes and to wander about completely naked for three years as a "sign and a wonder." In this way he will be just like the Egyptian captives who will walk about naked "with their buttocks uncovered." 20:2-5


Tyre "shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world," and her hire shall be holiness to the Lord." 23:17-18


Jerusalem still wasn't satisfied after having sex with the the well-endowed Egyptians (v.26), so she had sex with the Assyrians too. Yet she still wasn't satisfied. So she had sex with the men of Canaan and Chaldea, but still was not satisfied. 16:28-29

God calls Jerusalem "an imperious whorish woman." 16:30

God says that Jerusalem has sex with strangers, hiring them to "come in unto thee on every side." 16:32-33

Because she is such a filthy harlot, God will expose her nakedness before all of her lovers. 16:35-36

After exposing her nakedness, God will give her "blood in fury and jealousy" and strip her naked once more. 16:38-41


Information from God about discovering the nakedness of fathers, committing adultery with neighbor's wives, sex with menstruating women, daughters-in-law, sisters, etc. 22:1-11

God (or Hosea?) tells his children that their mother is a whore who is not his wife. He asks them to tell their mother to "put away her whoredoms" and "her adulteries from between her breasts" or he'll "strip her naked ... and slay her with thirst." 2:2-3

Paul explains that "the natural use" of women is to act as sexual objects for the pleasure of men. 1:27
1 Corinthians


Jesus will "cast her [Jezebel] into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her." 2:22



 

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Posted by Chinderella angel (Member # 11953) on :
 
Batman please

I PMed you
 

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Posted by bibo1978 (Member # 9287) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sheikh_batman.:

quote:

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Originally posted by loveforever:

Jesus said before take care from false prophets who will com after me in sheep clothes but they are wolves from inside, from their fruits you will know them .

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i DOUBT IF HE SAID IT.

LETS' ASSUME HE SAID,

WHERE R THOSE FALSE 'PROPHETS'?? they must be more than one

hOW MANY FALSE PROPHETS CAME ?



which fruits r u talking about?

the propeht Muhammed is stiill found in your written bible. God makes people keep his name in the bible. dont you know that?


Btw, u cant believe ur bible that people write it themselves

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Batman needs to understand that one person's belief system is not the same as the next persons. If he could respect that, it would save his needless attacks on Christianity. This equally applies to the fundamental Christian nutters on this forum. Your version of God is YOUR version of God. These are YOUR truths. They are facts to you, not anyone else. If you can't respect this, you have no right to demand respect from anyone else.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
Mohammed was a pedophile ,we know that. he was married to a 9 year old.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by ARROW99:
Mohammed was a pedophile ,we know that. he was married to a 9 year old.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by bibo1978:
SWYS: [/qb]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God):
Girls at the age of 3 were forced into sex in both the Talmud and the Bible. Also, the age consent in US and Europe was as low as 10:

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This is the webpage disclaimer:

An important note:
As Muslims, we do not embrace the pedophilia, rape, terrorism and all of the other forms of evil that exist in the Bible, nor do we believe that the Prophets of Allah Almighty, peace and blessings be upon all of them, ever committed such cruel acts that are falsely attributed to them.

We're only exposing the corrupted bible and the evil that exists in it.


At least when God chose MOther Mary to concieve Prophet Isse IMMACULATELY she was of child bearing age.


Oh but go back to the webpage and this is the contents:

Further Topic Research: Select a Search: --------------------------- Site Titles Noble Quran Hadiths
Syntax help



An important note:
As Muslims, we do not embrace the pedophilia, rape, terrorism and all of the other forms of evil that exist in the Bible, nor do we believe that the Prophets of Allah Almighty, peace and blessings be upon all of them, ever committed such cruel acts that are falsely attributed to them.

We're only exposing the corrupted bible and the evil that exists in it.






After you finish this article, also please visit:

Prophet Muhammad is a Murderer for KILLING the enemies? WHAT ABOUT THE BIBLE'S PROPHETS' MURDERS that were blessed by GOD?

Cutting the hands and feet of the enemies in the Bible, and hanging their live bodies on trees until they DIE.





Girls at the age of 3 were forced into sex in both the Talmud and the Bible. Also, the age consent in US and Europe was as low as 10:

The sections of this article are:

1- Pedophilia and killing of "suckling infants" in the Bible!
2- Girls at the age of 3 were forced into sex and marriage in both the Talmud and the Bible.
3- Age consent in our world today only 100 years ago to girls as young as 10.
4- Rebuttals. See my rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's response.





1- Pedophilia and killing "suckling infants" in the Bible!

Ironically, one of the Bible's 10 pillars or ten Commandments says: "Thou shalt not kill. (Exodus 20:13)." Yet, innocent children and non-virgin women were ordered to be killed by the mass, perhaps in thousands! 3-year old slave girls were also ordered to be raped by Moses.



This section is divided into 2 sub-sections:

1- Suckling infants were executed by the tens of thousands!

2- The pedophilic verses against 3-year old girls.





1- Suckling infants were executed by the tens of thousands:

1 Samuel 15:2-4
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.


A praise for dashing little children against rocks as a form of revenge:

Psalm 137:8-9
8 O daughter of Babylon, O destroyed one, O the happiness of him who repayeth to thee thy deed, That thou hast done to us.
9 O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock!


I find it to be absolutely ridiculous that the bible feeds us all kinds of lies and contradictions about "love your enemy", and yet, we see mass slaughter of suckling infants and innocent boys, girls, unarmed men, women (old and young), and innocent domestic farm animals by the tens of thousands! It is clear that the inconsistent man-altered, man-corrupted and morally corrupt bible is nothing but a false book, and can not be a Divine and Perfect Holy Book!

I challenge any Jew or Christian to produce ONE, JUST ONE Noble Verse from the Muslims' Noble Quran that condones killing of innocent children, women or even hostile enemy men who drop their weapons before Muslims (surrender).

See the Rights of Prisoners of War in Islam.


Further more, Allah Almighty Said in the Noble Quran:

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"

Yet, we see mass slaughters and even rape of 3-year old girls as seen in the verses below in the man-altered, man-fabricated and man-corrupted bible.

Based on this Noble Verse, I can safely conclude, as a Muslim, that the slaughtering stories of innocent people in the corrupted bible were nothing but man-made lies and laws that were put in the Mouth of Allah Almighty:

"Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book (i.e., the Bible), but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:77-78)"



2- The Pedophilic Verses against 3-year old girls:

The pedophilic Biblical verses are Numbers 31:17-18 and Numbers 31:35-40. Below, you will see DETAILED HISTORY on these SPECIFIC verses from the Jewish Talmud explaining the pedophilia that took place against the 3-year old slave girls under the direct command of Moses.

While Christians are not obligated to follow the laws of the Talmud in their social lives, but the historical FACTS that exist in the Talmud about the Biblical verses Numbers 31:17-18 and Numbers 31:35-40 below, and how the "BIBLE FOLLOWERS" during those days were mostly pedophiles who literally forced sex on 3-year old girls after Moses' supposed 'Divine' order is clear indication that the Bible condones pedophilia.


Christians are not the only "Bible Followers". Jews are too!


You also need to keep in mind that Christians are not the only "Bible followers". Jews are too, and what ever they did counts for and against the Bible.

So while the pedophilic mentioned verses don't exactly specify the 3 years old minimum age limit, but they most certainly don't condemn it, and according to the Talmud's detailed elaborations on the verses, as shown below, and what actually took place during their events, the verses actually allowed it, AS MOSES HIMSELF ALLOWED IT!


Moses' Commands for pedophilia against 3-year old slave girls do count against the Bible!

As shown in the quotes below:
"....The Tannaïtic Midrash Sifre to Numbers in §157 comments on the above quoted commandment of MOSES to kill the Midianite women as well as the male children...."

"....According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, MOSES therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations." [138]...."

"Said Rabbi Joseph, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse....."

"A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."....."


The detailed quotes, elaborations and bibliography are in the next section below.





2- Girls at the age of 3 were forced into sex in both the Talmud and the Bible:



The Quotes and Proofs for Pedophilia Please pay attention to the bolded and underlined parts below:
The following was taken from http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/guido_deimel/judaism.html regarding Numbers 31:17-18 in the Bible:

Numbers 31:17-18 "Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."


Children

Sometimes one has to read a passage twice to believe what has been written in the Sacred Books of Judaism: what has been decreed the way to a holy life by the "sages of blessed memory... whose words are the natural sounds of Judaism" [131]:



Said Rabbi Joseph, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And one can be liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her when she is menstruating, to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer [of what lies beneath]. If she was married to a priest, she may eat food in the status of priestly rations. If one of those who are unfit for marriage with her had intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood. If any of those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her had intercourse with her, he is put to death on her account, but she is free of responsibility [M.Nid. 5:4].
Sanhedrin 7/55B [132]

R. Nahman bar Isaac said. "They made the decree that a gentile child should be deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15], so that an Israelite child should not hang around with him and commit pederasty [as he does]."
For said R. Zira, "I had much anguish with R. Assi, and R. Assi with R. Yohanan, and R. Yohanan with R. Yannai, and R. Yannai with R. Nathan b. Amram, and R. Nathan b. Amram with Rabbi [on this matter]: 'From what age is a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]'? And he said to me, 'On the day on which he is born.' But when I came to R. Hiyya, he said to me, 'From the age of nine years and one day.' And when I came and laid the matter before Rabbi, he said to me, 'Discard my reply and adopt that of R. Hiyya, who declared, "From what age is a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]? From the age of nine years and one day."'
[37A] Since he is then suitable for having sexual relations, he also is deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [of Lev.15]."
Said Rabina, "Therefore a gentile girl who is three years and one day old, since she is then suitable to have sexual relations, also imparts uncleanness of the flux variety."
That is self-evident!
Abodah Zarah 36B-37A [133]



The basis for these rulings is the following Mishnaic passage of Tractate Niddah (filth):



A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. "A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse," the words of R. Meir. And sages say, "Three years and one day old."
And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And they are liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her when she is menstruating to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer. If she was married to a priest, she eats heave offering. If one of those who are unfit for marriage has intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood. If one of all those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her did so, they are put to death on her account. But she is free of responsibility.
If she is younger than that age, intercourse with her is like putting a finger in the eye.
(Mishnah Niddah 5:4) [134]



Thus, one "of the many important issues worked out in the Mishnah concerns proper conduct with women," [135] and the "entire society of Judaism – that is, the community formed by the Torah – found in the Talmud those modes of thought and inquiry, those media of order and value, that guided the formation of public affairs and private life as well." [136]

While it is reassuring to see there was at least some limit as to what the sages would declare holy and moral, this ruling had severe implications on the interpretation of other topics as well. The Tannaïtic Midrash Sifre to Numbers in §157 comments on the above quoted commandment of Moses to kill the Midianite women as well as the male children:



"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).
[This] refers to her who has slept with a man as well as her who is suitable for intercourse, even when she has not slept with a man...
But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves. From here R. Shimon b. Yohai used to say: a Proselyte girl who became a proselyte in the age of less than three years and one day, is rendered fit to marry into the priesthood." [137]



According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, Moses therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations." [138]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bibliography:

[131] Ibid., vol.XXI.A-D, Tractate Bava Mesia, Atlanta: Scholars Press 1990, p.ix-x.

[132] Ibid., vol.XXIII.B, Tractate Sanhedrin 1984, 150. See also vol.XIX.A, Tractate Qiddushin 10a-b, 1992, 33. "Menstruating" here of course refers to the ritual "flux uncleanness" described in Lev.15.

[133] Ibid., vol.XXV.A, Tractate Abodah Zarah, 1991, 168. Emphasis original.

[134] J. Neusner, The Talmud of Babylonia. A complete outline, Part IV. The Division of Holy Things. B. Number 37. 1995, 704.

[135] Neusner 1993, 41.

[136] Neusner 1995, 7.

[137] Kuhn 1959, §157, 652f. My translation. In general, proselytes are not allowed to marry into the priesthood.

[138] Ibid., §157, footnote 86, 653.




The following was sent to me by brother Johnny Bravo; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:

Numbers 31:17-18 "Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

In the Torah (In the Book of Numbers in the Bible), after the conquest of Midian and Moab, and the great venereal plague, Moses (peace be on him) ordered that all the women "who have known a man" be killed but that "all the young girls, who have not known a man by lying with him" be kept alive for the Israelites.

Since the only females left fit for marriage and wholesome relations were prepubescent virgins, a Jewish law concerning child marriage was enacted. That law is found in the Babylonian Talmud:

"Rabbi Joseph said, 'Come and hear. A maiden aged 3 years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition.'

Mishnah: A girl of the age of 3 years and a day may be betrothed, subject to her father's approval, by sexual intercourse.

Gemara: Our Rabbis taught: 'A girl of the age of 3 years may be betrothed by sexual intercourse.' "



Is the GOD of Israel a pedophile? Quick side Note:
Numbers 31:35-40 "[From the captives of war] 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.......of which the tribute for the LORD was 32 [among them were virgin girls]."

Even though GOD Almighty's share of the 32 virgin girls is metaphoric, meaning that He didn't come down and have sex with them, but if any wants to call Prophet Muhammad a pedophile or womanizer for marrying (not forcing into sex) a young girl and marrying multiple women throughout his life, then he should not only call his Biblical Prophets as such, but also the GOD of Israel Himself!




Anyway continuing with the above Talmudic quotes, today, the Jewish law for marriage, sets the age of consent for females at 11. (Consent is only one way of marriage) I do not know if modern Jewish law still allows (in theory) betrothal by intercourse as it was practiced in ancient times.

Thirty years ago, the renowned sexologist R.E.L. Masters and Allan Edwardes said in their study of Afro-Asian sexual expression (_The Cradle of Erotica_, Julian Press, New York:1962) said, "Today, in many parts of North Africa, Arabia, and India, girls are wedded and bedded between the ages of five and nine; and no self-respecting female remains unmarried beyond the age of puberty."

I emailed a friend of mine, a former Jew who speaks Hebrew, and he further gave me more information regarding the Jewish view to marriage:

"I have just called up a seriously orthodox friend, a dealer in manuscripts with whom I do business, and a good fellow, to double check my response, and we are in perfect agreement. He runs a strictly orthodox and observant home and life, dresses in black, etc...I checked with him about it, as my own copy of the Code of Jewish Law is the shortened version, known as the "Kitzur Shulchan Aruch". The full book is the "Shulchan Aruch", which means "The Well-Set Table" (The Jews have a talent for clever book-titles).


This is the reference of brother Johnny Bravo's Talmudic quotes.





A girl must be 12 years old for marriage, but a 3-year old may be betrothed with the father's approval. As for the permissibility of marriage to a minor (katanah) by coition...*Fuggedaboudit!!* as they say in the Mafia. My friend assures me that *humanitarian treatment* is the final authority. If a man did that, that is, had intercourse with a minor for purposes of marriage,it would be considered a crime, even if the father approved. A girl that young would be considered unable to make a momentous decision like that. And even if she were older than 12, if it were done by force, as if she were a Moabite captive, they would be made to divorce once the circumstances were known.

Furthermore, and very importantly, the Jews are *required* to observe the "deen hammalchut"...the laws of the country in which they reside, before applying their own halacha, or laws. So the short answer is, yes, marriage by coition is considered legal, but not with a katanah, and never by force. Betrothal to a katanah is OK, but the bride must reach puberty before actual marriage and consummation. Also, according to my own exceedingly imperfect knowledge, nowhere in the Talmud is betrothal to a minor by intercourse *recommended*. If all this were permissible in the days of the Mishna, well, those days are gone."





3- Age consent in our world today only 100 years ago to girls as young as 10:

The following was sent to me by brother Johnny Bravo; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:

Assalam Alaiqum Brother Osama.

I thought you might find the following information of some use pertaining to the marriage of Hazrat Ayesha (RAA) with Prophet Muhammed (PBUH). I took this info from the soc.religion.islam newsgroup and it is written by various knowledgeable Muslims informing that the age of consent in the USA was 10 hardly 100 years ago and 11 in the UK, Talmud allowing 3 year olds to get married! etc. :-

"(And there is evidence that Ayesha was substantially older. That some of our ancient scholars preferred the younger age shows, in fact, that they did not consider marriage at that age to be reprehensible, otherwise they would have preferred the evidence for a later marriage and consummation.)

At the time the marriage was arranged, Muhammad had not left Makka; he was not the leader of a powerful community; indeed, his life was in danger. I raise this point because it is asserted, sometimes, that, essentially, he could have whatever he wanted. Rather, if this marriage had been an outrage to the community, it would have been *very* harmful to his cause."

Above comments by Abdulrahman Lomax.

The age of sexual consent is still quite low in many places. In Japan, people can legally have sex at age 13, and in Spain they can legally have sex at age 12. (This data comes from the Age of Consent chart, which you can see at: http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)

The Prophet's contemporaries (both enemies and friends) clearly accepted the Prophet's marriage to `Aisha without any problem. We see the evidence for this by the lack of criticism against the marriage until modern times. However, a change in culture caused the change in our times today.

A 40-year-old man having sex with a 14-year-old woman may be a "pedophile" in the USA today, but not in China today (where the age of consent is 14), nor in the USA last century. Biology is a much better standard by which to determine these things in my view, not the arbitrariness of human culture.


***** In the USA last century, the age of consent was 10 years old. California was the first state to change the age of consent to 14, which it did in 1889. After California, other US states joined in and raised the age of consent too. (Source: http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.htm)

As for the reasons why we age of consent just seems to get higher and higher, Essentially, we need more education just to survive in today's society, and this takes much more time. This additional education we need to function in today's society seems to me to be the main cause of the increase in the age of consent in many 20th century societies. The Common Law age of consent was 10. The French penal code raised the age from 11 to 13 only a century ago. In England, it was only in 1929 (70 years ago) that the ancient Christian minimum age for the marriage of females, which was 12, was abandoned. The early rock and roll singer Jerry Lee Lewis was considerably older than his 13 cousin whom he married in all legality in Arkansas. Since then, the age there has been raised to 16. That marriage lasted for about 15 years and there was never any other "scandal" associated with Jerry Lee Lewis. The story is quite different, however, for his cousin Jimmy Swaggart (the well-known and disgraced tele-evangelist) who married a woman his own age but later publicly confessed that he was an adulterer and a whoremonger.

In the seventh century, 3 year old girls were burned to death or tortured in Europe for copulating with demons, witches and sorcerers. Strong sexual passions were attributed to the youngest children. Even Jean Bodin, one of the greatest legal authorities of his time, said that the appropriate age of consent for a female was 6. (I do not mean to suggest that 3 year olds did in fact have sexual relations with demons. It is however interesting to see that at that time it was publicly believed that child-adult relations were the fault of seductive children who sought out mature men rather than today's popular belief that it is instead pedophiliac adults who prey on innocent, unsuspecting children.)

In the US (an example of a prominent western country, since the west had the greatest effect on the world in the last couple of centuries.) They considered a seven year old female competent on making decisions regarding sex, though it was raised later on (in 1886, after attempts to raise the age of consent, Delaware was the only state to retain the common law age of seven, while twenty five states set the minimum age at a mere ten.) In older times, children were not perceived in the same sense that we perceive them, but the perception was changed gradually, which is due to a great extent to industrialization, and of course sigmund freud and others came along with their theories and supported these changes in social thinking (the word adolescent itself was introduced as recently as 1904.)





4- Rebuttals:

My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "Osama Abdallah's Obsession with Pedophilia in the Bible" article.

Refutation to the preposterous LIES of Jochen Katz about his Bible not containing inhumane murders but its Prophets!













Back to Women section.

X-Rated Pornography in the Bible.

The Marriage of Aisha by Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

Refutation to the preposterous LIES of Jochen Katz about his Bible not containing inhumane murders from its Prophets!

Prophet Muhammad is a Murderer for KILLING the enemies? WHAT ABOUT THE BIBLE'S PROPHETS' MURDERS that were blessed by GOD? Cutting the hands and feet of the enemy in the Bible.


In otherwords its not the actual words in the Bible or Torah. But words reportively from Rabbis, yet the comments of these imaginary Rabbis cannot be verified.

No wonder Batty_boy is quoting this website!
 

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Posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God) (Member # 11915) on :
 
so where is the actual bible and Torah you claim it's to comment on it?
 

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Posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God):
so where is the actual bible and Torah you claim it's to comment on it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God):
so where is the actual bible and Torah you claim it's to comment on it?

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According to the webpage the claim about its okay to screw 3 year old children and kill them is via personal communications with a bogus Rabbi.

Its all made up. Its not in the Bible nor the Torah. Its a factious lie and most anyone with an IQ over 90 can tell its a lie.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by loveforever:

quote:

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Just tell me what fruit did christianity offered to the world, is in it the crusaide and the inquisition, we have a better record than yours we have always developed human nature to the best

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when we are talking about this standard that Jesus put to examine the false prophet then we have to apply it on the teaching of the prophet and what the religion is teaching the followers to do.

When you check the Gospel/Injeel you will not find anything inciting to kill or fighting in wars against anybody but unlike that you will find Jesus teaching to love your enemy and to bless who cursing you and I think you have debated with so many before and you are fully aware about what inside the Gospel and the teaching about the love and the peaceful.

Then when you talking about the cross crusade was the fruits of Christianity it means you are cheating yourself first and your Muslims readers second.

Because you are aware that who did these wars they were not following the teaching of Jesus and the cross that was putting on their banners was not a sign of war but was a sign of redemption and the sacrifice of Jesus for others,then it's clear that they put the cross for their desires only and to give their wars the religion colour

Therefore your example is fully wrong because is not related to Jesus's teaching.

And when you talk that you have developed human natures
Just give me one example from the Muslims country surrounding us and to check how their citizens are living and how they are treated from their dictator's governments

so now would you like to talk about Quran and Mohamed's teaching to check if Muslims is following the teaching of their prophet or not?

Note that our homes are from the steel that christians discovered and Manufactured not from the glass that we also discovered

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quote:

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Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God):
so where is the actual bible and Torah you claim it's to comment on it?

---

According to the webpage the claim about its okay to screw 3 year old children and kill them is via personal communications with a bogus Rabbi.

Its all made up. Its not in the Bible nor the Torah. Its a factious lie and most anyone with an IQ over 90 can tell its a lie.

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Eventhough you are the obnoxious Sono ......

I MUST AGREE WITH YOU IN THIS POST


ALSO ANYONE LIKE ARROW WHO BELIEVES THAT OUR PROPHET MUHAMMAD WAS A CRIMINAL & A PEDOPHILE IS ALSO WRONG & HAVE AN INSIFFICIENT IQ
 

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Posted by crazyone (Member # 11660) on :
 
ya rab er7am
 

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Posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Chinderella angel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God):
so where is the actual bible and Torah you claim it's to comment on it?

---

According to the webpage the claim about its okay to screw 3 year old children and kill them is via personal communications with a bogus Rabbi.

Its all made up. Its not in the Bible nor the Torah. Its a factious lie and most anyone with an IQ over 90 can tell its a lie.

---

Eventhough you are the obnoxious Sono ......

I MUST AGREE WITH YOU IN THIS POST


ALSO ANYONE LIKE ARROW WHO BELIEVES THAT OUR PROPHET MUHAMMAD WAS A CRIMINAL & A PEDOPHILE IS ALSO WRONG & HAVE AN INSIFFICIENT IQ

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Actually it was about Moses declaring it halaal to kill 3 year old children because at one time children were betrothed at that age.

Personally I know a few Syrians who's families had made committments to marry their children at age of "majority = college graduation" in kindergarten. Now they are married and happy. Being distant cousins might help concrete their relationship in their Syrian culture back home so they aren't given any lip for being entirely raised in the west.

I don't see anything in the Bible to where Moses said this, but I can see where it might've been useful to use 3 as the cut off age. Even the Pharoah had a decree to kill every male child under the age of 3 in order to wipe out Moses. Unknowingly to him his own daughter had adopted Moses and Moses survived the slaughter decree.

Personally I think the persons who created this "answering christianity" website aren't Muslims at all, but athiests. Why would a pious Muslim create such lies about a Muslim Prophet. Moses is Muslim. Which somehow in the pent-up sexually oppressed frenzy our virgin batty-boy didn't realize he was committing blasphemy against an actual Muslim Prophet.
 

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Posted by Servant (Member # 11390) on :
 
Mr.Sheikh
I have mentioned before that you will find the words giving you different meaning, but what made me sad that you are only searching for a few words that you think it will embarrassing us but I think due to your non reading from the beginning to the end, you will cheat your self only all the way, and do you know who is behind that? Is not the God of course.

Before reading the Old Testament you have to know that you are reading a history book about old nations from thousand years and specially the story of Israeli people.
You will find everything were happening as per their human nature, and how God was treating those people as per their limited mind that time.

I know that you are wondering now about that? But this why we are calling it the old Testament and this is why the New testament came to heal the hearts of those people where Jesus told them for your cruel hearts God gave you that law.

So now I will give just short hints for some of what you mentioned because for giving you full explanations for everything it needs long articles as it's a part of a history and you can't just get some sentences out the context and asking for an explanation.

I know that you have a problem with the word Sex and breast but these what God created.

quote:

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If you see a pretty woman among the captives and would like her for a wife, then just bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can "let her go." 21:11-14

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quote:

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You can't go to church if your testicles are damaged or your penis has been cut off. 23:1

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quote:

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Samson wants to have sex with his wife in the bedroom, but his father won't let him. 15:1

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quote:

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"Then went Samson to Gaza, and saw there an harlot, and went in unto her." 16:1

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quote:

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The sons of Eli had sex with women "at the door of the tabernacle." 2:22

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quote:

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Since women are inherently dirty, the woman that "pleased the king" the most must be "purified" for twelve months before she can be made queen. 2:9-12

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quote:

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Let her breasts satisfy thee at all times." 5:18

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quote:

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"Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins." 4:5

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quote:

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"We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts ... But my breasts [are] like towers." 8:8-10

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quote:

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Originally posted by loveforever:
Father Servant don't continue because he will not understand anything, you are wasting your time and at the end he will try to check another way which it will be endless, his concepts is different and it will be hard for him to understand by that way.

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is he your father?
 

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Posted by loveforever (Member # 11738) on :
 
Even the simple word you don't understant
I am not wondering now why the Jewish crucified Jesus.
I am calling him father because he is a good reader to the bible and he is very kindly with you.
Have you got it now,I hope
 

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Posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God) (Member # 11915) on :
 

quote:

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he is a good reader to the bible

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quote:

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I am not wondering now why the Jewish crucified Jesus

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quote:

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Originally posted by bibo1978:
I
Yet I want to note that we as muslims we never debate with this way I have attended hundereds of 'Gom'aa' speech, and I have never heard any 'Imam' bashing Christianity unless he was answer a christianity claim about our religion or culture.
Yet when I look at christians priests I found them across the history bashing Islam, Even if with no logic, the same is with how west looks to islam, I have never seen an 'Imam' saying that those people are the people of vice the don't back virtue or ... etc. Except if he is backing up a cause where the west have accused Islam or mocked him.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by loveforever:
I am wondering Sheikh that you still using the site of answering-Christianity for confirmation
After his administrator converted to Christianity

check the testimony of the administrator ANTHONY TARASCA which posted before in ES.

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001757;p=1#000005

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reply to the claims first
ur book is corrupted by all ways
 

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Posted by loveforever (Member # 11738) on :
 
And your book also corrupted by all ways
 

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Posted by Sapna (Member # 10626) on :
 
If you don't like what's being said...you don't have to keep reading what he writes. Truth is myriad and Batman's idea of truth in his religious beliefs are the One Truth for him. It doesn't mean he is right and it doesn't mean he is wrong. We are all free to believe what we want and instead of getting all worked up over his posts;just ignore them.
 

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Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sheikh_Eltawheed(oneness of God):
[you still haven't answered my questions]

i asked u about the verse, dude. get it here.

dude am armed. u r not


[Followers of Christianity choose to follow a faith that is true and real to them . Muslims choose to follow a faith that is true and real to them .]

yes fire is for those who worship 3 Gods
heavens r for the believer of the one God
Muslims choose the paradise
christian chose the hell
is that what u mean?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sapna:
If you don't like what's being said...you don't have to keep reading what he writes. Truth is myriad and Batman's idea of truth in his religious beliefs are the One Truth for him. It doesn't mean he is right and it doesn't mean he is wrong. We are all free to believe what we want and instead of getting all worked up over his posts;just ignore them.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Sapna:
If you don't like what's being said...you don't have to keep reading what he writes. Truth is myriad and Batman's idea of truth in his religious beliefs are the One Truth for him. It doesn't mean he is right and it doesn't mean he is wrong. We are all free to believe what we want and instead of getting all worked up over his posts;just ignore them.

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Your right Sapna......
 

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Posted by Sapna (Member # 10626) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by bibo1978:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sapna:
If you don't like what's being said...you don't have to keep reading what he writes. Truth is myriad and Batman's idea of truth in his religious beliefs are the One Truth for him. It doesn't mean he is right and it doesn't mean he is wrong. We are all free to believe what we want and instead of getting all worked up over his posts;just ignore them.

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are you talking to me

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quote:

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loveforever jews did not curcified Him it was the roman... secondly the God came here to be crucified and THAT was the purpose of his coming.

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quote:

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Originally posted by loveforever:
Batman please leave the dark and live in the light,don't cheat your self.

I am still wondering that you are using the site of answering-Christianity for confirmation
After his administrator converted to Christianity

check the testimony of the administrator ANTHONY TARASCA which posted before in ES.

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001757

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Batman , in the mosque 3latool:

quote:

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Originally posted by loveforever:
Batman please leave the dark and live in the light,don't cheat your self.

I am still wondering that you are using the site of answering-Christianity for confirmation
After his administrator converted to Christianity

check the testimony of the administrator ANTHONY TARASCA which posted before in ES.

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001757

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This is hoax

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quote:

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How are others to know that what you post is real and not fiction?

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what kind of Question is that?

i get your real verses from your book contradictiong each other.

I dont understand how u still believe your book is not corrupted

how can u take ur creed about God from a corrupted book?

if you take your creed from a corrupted book, then u have a corrupted creed

that is clear like crystal to al people reading my posts
 

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Posted by Just Call Me A Lackey (Member # 10626) on :
 
Again, I ask...can you show me accurate proof from a reliable source without the personal rhetoric from you?
 

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Posted by Batman , discovering lies (Member # 11915) on :
 
accurate proof FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE??

SO WHAT WERE ALL MY POSTS?

NOT ACCURATE?

YOU ASKED ME YESTERDAY TO TELL YOU ABOUT MY CREED AS A MUSLIM SUNNI RELATED TO THE PROPHET MUHAMMED CREED WHICH WAS THE SAME LIKE THE PROPHET JESUS WHICH WAS THE SAME LIKE PROPEHT MOSES( BUT YOU WON'T GET THAT AFTER THE CORRUPTION OF THE BIBLE)


READ OUR CREED IN THIS BOOK
http://www.al-sunnah.com/themuslimsbelief.htm
 

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Posted by Chinderella angel TORMENTOR (Member # 11953) on :
 
LOL Batty ........ You're now calling yourself the Human Lie Detector?
 

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Posted by Just Call Me A Lackey (Member # 10626) on :
 
Actually, I understand just fine. But, you didn't get my previous question. I wasn't questioning your previous posts or your creed. If you look back to see my previous post, I asked you to refute Loveforever's argument. I asked you to give a reliable source from that.
 

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Posted by lovingspirit :) (Member # 11660) on :
 
again love forever,,, the killing was pilates did not want to do it go back to the bible... and again.. no one would have crucified him should he not wanted to be done... he came to be CRUCIFIED it was his purpose his duty and God's will. Case closed. Who believe differently is wrong.
 

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Posted by lovingspirit :) (Member # 11660) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Batman , discovering lies:

quote:

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How are others to know that what you post is real and not fiction?

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what kind of Question is that?

i get your real verses from your book contradictiong each other.

I dont understand how u still believe your book is not corrupted

how can u take ur creed about God from a corrupted book?

if you take your creed from a corrupted book, then u have a corrupted creed

that is clear like crystal to al people reading my posts

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Batman , discovering lies:

quote:

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How are others to know that what you post is real and not fiction?

---

what kind of Question is that?

i get your real verses from your book contradictiong each other.

I dont understand how u still believe your book is not corrupted


how can u take ur creed about God from a corrupted book?

if you take your creed from a corrupted book, then u have a corrupted creed

that is clear like crystal to al people reading my posts

---

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Originally posted by lovingspirit :

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Originally posted by Batman , discovering lies:

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How are others to know that what you post is real and not fiction?

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what kind of Question is that?

i get your real verses from your book contradictiong each other.

I dont understand how u still believe your book is not corrupted


how can u take ur creed about God from a corrupted book?

if you take your creed from a corrupted book, then u have a corrupted creed

that is clear like crystal to al people reading my posts

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batman... isnt it true that is the coran book also text contradicting each other such as what they call "na2ti ba2ayaten bemeslaha aw khayran menha" does that mean that the first aya that god sent is not as good as the secomd one does that mean that the coran is corrupted???? rag3 shwaya ma3loumatak

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The previous scriptures were meant for a limited period. Their use ended with the revelation of the Qur'an, which abrogated them and exposed their distortions and changes. That is why they were not protected from corruption.

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Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha:

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Originally posted by bibo1978:
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Yet I want to note that we as muslims we never debate with this way I have attended hundereds of 'Gom'aa' speech, and I have never heard any 'Imam' bashing Christianity unless he was answer a christianity claim about our religion or culture.
Yet when I look at christians priests I found them across the history bashing Islam, Even if with no logic, the same is with how west looks to islam, I have never seen an 'Imam' saying that those people are the people of vice the don't back virtue or ... etc. Except if he is backing up a cause where the west have accused Islam or mocked him.

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Well then you must be listening in a a few Imams and tuning out 90% of them.

But in the event that I go to a different church other than the one I usually go to nothing at all is said about Muslims in the Middle East. Actually the church I was raised in the Pastor did some of his Phd studies in Jerusalem and made sure we understood that Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in the same God.

The Reverends or Priests you are refering to are actually televangelists who have their theology education from a non-acredited college. Actually most of them gained more classroom experience in drama coaching than in theology lectures.

If that is your idea of a Christian theologian then I can understand why the Mullahs in KSA and the Mullahs who makes millions on cassette tapes influence you in the manner that they do.

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