quote: Who would seriously want to live under the "Islamic system"?
I do prefer Islamic system than the Other Stupid Man-made System. God is The superior. God Rules is to be carried out perfectly. God likes Justice. Why don't people live under the God's rules instead of the idiot and unfair Man-Made stupidity ( LIKE CAPITALISM, COMMUNISM ...ETC)
Then If we refuse God's Rules, DO you think it's the way of Salvation ?
God placed a system to make the HUMANKIND live peacefully, Why to deviate from the teaching?
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There is also a point I like to focus on the christian system before Being modified was a rule of God , But After Modification of the bible, God sent another Propeht with the Rules.
The new Prophet Muhammed didnt disbelieve in the old books. He ordered Muslims to believe in those books . BUT ONLY THE ORGINAL BOOKS NOT THE MODIFIED ONESPosts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:It's obligatory for christian living under the islamic system to pay Jizia( Tax).
why they have to pay Jizya? why only christians and Jewish?
what could happen if America and Britian do the same with Muslims?how could be the reaction of Muslims in the world?
if this a justice why it's mention in Quran Suran Altoba 9-verse29 to pay the Jizia in sumbmission otherwise they will be killed till believe in Islam
FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued
can you explain how could be JUSTICE?
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued
Yes, This is true. This is A Quranic verse. Those people who God ordered Us to fight are the disbeliever of the christian and Jewish that want to spread Oppression among people. GOd STRICTLY ordered us to Make Jihad and fight with them if they don't accept the condition of Islam to spread Justice.
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka not here ): FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued
Yes, This is true. This is A Quranic verse. Those people who God ordered Us to fight are the disbeliever of the christian and Jewish that want to spread Oppression among people. GOd STRICTLY ordered us to Make Jihad and fight with them if they don't accept the condition of Islam to spread Justice.
If they are peacefully, We will make a compromise with them and live peacefully without Fighting.
YOu know HOw THE MUSLIM LORD OMAR EBN KHATAB Entered Jerusalem. WAS it via bloodshed ?
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:If they are peacefully,We will make a compromise with them and live peacefully without Fighting
The verse didn't mention that ,it's clear fight who don't believe in Islam till believe or pay money in submission,so don't try to amend your said because we know and you know Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:GOd STRICTLY ordered us to Make Jihad and fight with them if they don't accept the condition of Islam to spread Justice.
So can you tell us any Muslim country well known by Justice and their Citizens living in happiness?
And according to what you said you have to fight half the world because they are simply don't follow your relegion's teaching.
we are sorry for that ......
NO, NOw, we will spread justice of Islam by The pen. We will make Jihad by pen till we re-build and re-construct the Muslim country. After re-construct of the muslim country we will spread Justice to the whole world and we will spread the teaching of Islam
But We will never Force any One to be muslim. We Will never Kill a Woman or a child or An Old man, We Will never Kill innocent people, We Will fight against the oppressive armies and the oppressive Government only till spread the Justice That God wanted the world to live in
We have a message From God, We MUST submit to It. Our Religion Islam is Submission To God.
THE PROPHET MUHAMMED SAID ISLAM WILL SPREAD IN THE WHOLE WORLD, THIS WILL OCCUR ONE DAY
YOU MAY CALL ME FANATIC OR TERRORIST BECAUE I'm WITH the idea of Jihad but I'm not. REMEBER THOSE BRITISH PEOPLE THAT CONQUERED EGYPT ONEDAY REMEBER THOSE ITALIAN THAT CONQUERED LIBYA REMEBER THOSE FRENCHE THAT CONQUER MOROCCO AND TUNISE REMEBER THOSE JEWISH THAT CONQUERED THE QUDS
THOSE OPPRESSIVE PEOPLE ARE THE TERRORIST AND THE FANATIC THAT FIGHT FOR MONEY AND LAND. BUT WE FIGHT FOR SPREADING THE JUSTICE OF ISLAM
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:If they are peacefully,We will make a compromise with them and live peacefully without Fighting
The verse didn't mention that ,it's clear fight who don't believe in Islam till believe or pay money in submission,so don't try to amend your said because we know and you know
THe compromise includes paying Jizia. This is mentioned in the holly verse of Quran
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Your being taken Sultan. There is no Islamic rule by God himself. Only men that will tell you what they believe God told them. Unless you will be the mullah in this system that counts I will assure you you don't want this.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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There is no 'we' just some sociopaths that can't see the suffering they are causing to their own and can't stop doing it. You will have to abide to men and not to God. Just some other sect. Use your brains Sultan and pray and fast, adress God, not men, you will get the answers you need.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: pray and fast, adress God, not men, you will get the answers you need.
hey Damaina, Muslims are already Fast and pray like Prophet Jesus and Prophet Muhammed. We are forced to it.
Go and Advice yourself , Go and Pray like jesus . But YOu have to know more about Prophet Jesus and His praying and how how many time of praying.
you may find some remains of the true way of praying in oneof your numerous bibles
Damiana, I dont know why on the earthdont u get convinced that your Book is no longer an authentic one? it's full of contradictions,Adultery and lies?
quote: Carrying out Prayer (Prostration):
The only people in the whole world today who pray like Jesus (Peace and blessing be upon him), and all the other prophets are the Muslims:
1. Matthew 26:39 “He (Jesus) went a little farther and fell on his face, and prayed, O my father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will”.
2. Psalm 55:17 “Evening and morning and at noon, I will pray and cry aloud: and He shall hear my voice”.
3. Numbers 20:6 “So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and they fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them”.
FASTING:
Islam obliges Muslims to fast just as Jesus and the prophets did during their tenure in the world:
1. Matthew 4:2 “And when he (Jesus) had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward hungry”.
2. Exodus 34: 28 “And he (Moses) was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water”.
3. Matthew 6:16 “Moreover when you fast, be not as the hypocrites, with a sad countenance; for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward”
you dont follow either propeht Muhammed or Prophet Jesus, Ok. Dont lie to yourself. you wanna live freely without any religion.
Dont blame anyone exceptyourself in judgementday. say To God, i dont like your system and your laws Go figure
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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Hope you had something nice for iftar Batman!:-) It is allright to go by the instructions of your religion, although being forced is not in my book. It is not allright to force others to abide by your faith Batman, it simply is not.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: Hope you had something nice for iftar Batman!:-) It is allright to go by the instructions of your religion, although being forced is not in my book. It is not allright to force others to abide by your faith Batman, it simply is not.
Dont ever try to act on ur self becuz none wil believe. u say am forcing u to my religion. this is a sh*it. i dont and u know.
i just telling your facts . you dont like Jesus and u live in some delusion that u related to Jesus and Jesus wont be proud ofyou. u dont ever care for a teaching or u can say u dont know what a teaching is. u wanna live according to ur brain that oppose the religion.
obligation of lots of Stuff is still found in your numerius bibles but u dont ever believe in lots of stuff.
Jesus comeing Back to earth is near. He will fight u people who change the teaching and wanna free urselves from the obligation.
u r losers. all people acting like u are losers in the judgemnt day. those who submit to the order and accept the forcemnt will survive and go 2 paradse
u dont seek salvation u seek refuing God's order
u r like some pple saying they r muslims and they dont pray or fast.
islam is submison to the Order. ppl who dont submit to it, r not submsiive and r not muslim
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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We had some of those judgementdaypreachers, merely 19th century. Sometimes the elderly in church long for a reverend that "will give it to them!" and once in awhile you can find one in the special biblebeltarea's over here. Some people want to live in fear. The fear of God they call it. I will not start with Jesus here but you might get the message anyway!:-) I do hope someone nice and dedicated will hold your hand when in fear.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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stop acting onyourself. Do you ever care for religion? u wanna live like animal, no animals are better at least they worship God and u dont
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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I pity you Damiana. You are a model of non intelligent christian. i know lots of chritian who are true not like you.
My ancestors were chrsitian before Amr ebn el3aas had come to egypt. after he came , ,y ancestor convert because they get the teaching of Jesus and accept it. they accept submission to Jesus teaching and accepted the true stories of Jesus and Mary.
Damiana, your heart is blind. u dont even know what's wrong and what's right. then u keep advising people to opppose God. how come?
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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is this a personal issue or u love attacking him ,hey batman in one thread u had no accent riting and i know u didnt paste it i no people comment on my english but i cud swear u have changed accents 4times are u i assume u are ....
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious: u want live freely without any rules or commitmentswith God What kind of crap is that? why ru in the religion section?
y dont u go to living section?
stop feedig the religionsection wiz ur lies
Yet again, batty man manages to demolish sense and decency, with his absurd posts. As I understand it, Islam doesn't wish to force religion on anyone. It doesn't see religion as compulsory for everyone. Of course, a learned scholar like batty man claims to know the Qur’an. His ignorant rants shame him, yet he is blind to this. He continues to speak the language of idiocy and hatred.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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now u swapped again your accent one time u sounded like a german the next a cockney then a black man the rest i aint got a clue ......
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote: by damiana although being forced is not in my book
you dont have a book?
being forced is in ur books but because u dont care for ur book or u dont have any book. you may have yolk but not book
like i said u dont know or u deceve urself and act yourself, wuts ur choice?
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious: U kno Hynday accent the car
forget, i've my egyptian falaheen accent
So you've gone back to your inner balady. Good for you, you've come to terms with your true self.
Any of these older lasses on these egy-forums hooking you up with a "good" girl that only knows her particular alley?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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like i said before, I dont befriend women and i dont fornicate. i ony believe in marriage relation betn man and woman.
i do force my self( makiing Jihad on myself) not to make Zena( fornication)
ودت الزانية لو يكون جميع النساء زواني مثلها the prostitudes want all women in earth to be like her
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious: like i said before, I dont befriend women and i dont fornicate. i ony believe in marriage relation betn man and woman.
i do force my self( makiing Jihad on myself) not to make Zena( fornication)
ودت الزانية لو يكون جميع النساء زواني مثلها the prostitudes want all women in earth to be like her
I highly doubt that "the prostitutes" want anyone to experience the hell they endure. But since that is your perspective typical of every Egyptian guy..... and why a previous thread of yours on EM "Western women are sluts".
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Let me recant this book passage to you:
Siham was attractive, tall and slim, with smooth dark hair and
high cheekbones, and many young men admired her. Some amoungst
these were our Christian Palestinian friends who knoew they had
no chance with a Muslim girl. But, in any case, our father was
dead against her marrying at this stage. To our mother's
dismay, he shooed them all away. "My daughters are not for
marriage. they ahve theiar studies to attend to," he would
assert sternly. In this way all but the most thick-skinned
were put off. Once of these, a Muslim man from Nablus called Jaafar Yassin, who was in England studying law, persisted in his suit. He was a regular visitor to our house, and Siham and I avoided him whenever he came. He was stocky and short with jet-black frizzy hair. Coarse black hairs curled thickly over each of the knucklesof his fingers and when he came once wearing an open neck shirt a mat of black frizzy hair could be seen jutting out at the top. Siham and I nicknamed him "the gorila" and shuddered when we saw him. Our mother, however, was much encouraged by his persistance and spoke to Siham about it.
"Just ignore your father. What do you think of him yourself?"
Siham squealed with horror. "Ooh, I couldn't bear him! He's so ugly." Our mother was put out. "And what have looks got to do with it?" she demanded. "A man's for being married to, not for displaying like an ornament!"
Though we burst out laughing, she was entirely serious. For, in that sentence, she had unwittingly epitomised the reality of Arab male-female relations, as she knew them. In the world where my mother grew up, and to a large extent even now, relations between the sexes were largely instrumental. When it came to marriage, men looked for a woman who was young, sound of boday and who could keep house and rear healthy children, while women wanted a man of any age and almost any appearance as long as he was respectable and could provide for them and the children they would have. The marriageability of both parties was assessed primarily on the basis of these qualities; love and compatibility, though they might exist at the beginning or develop later, were not essential to this arrangement. Actually, many arab men ave a patronising attitude to women, whom they regard as inferior, while the power imbalance between the sexes in Arab society ensures that women see men not as individuals but as pathways to social status and financial support. With fundamental matters like these at stake, it is no wonder that the men's looks or personal charm are the least of their concerns.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So are you a pathway to social status and financial support or a person Batty?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sheikh_batman. Batty got religious: u hear my voice ya ganbarry Shrimps?
your a friggen female arnt you your a old user name cause she used the same ending SHRIMPS uhmmmmmmmmmm now now had a complete sex change or become a she male ,did you think your cover wudnt be blown and ur arabic is from a tranlated site u rite it translate but we getting a different version to what your actually writing ,,look at the size of the arabic if it was copyed or if it was done itself on the keyboared your got a translator ....lol lol..DONT CHANGE YOUR ACCENT ON MY ACCOUNT ...
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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I really checked your link but I didn't find logic answers to these simple questions,most of their explainations based on misunderstanding the revelation of the bible or using verses from Quran for confirmation which non muslims not believe in.
it seems that someone try to confirm his saying by getting out a written paper from his pocket saying that you have to believe what I say because what is written here is from God.
I asked you simple questions and I know that Muslims don't know the answers .
you could give me simple answers if you are aware about but the point that you will find many sites talking so much but the basic answers of these issues aren't exist.
so where are the original books now?
who collected the bible from the world during your prophet's time then modified and distributed to the world again after modification?
which people did that Jewish or christians? and what the interest they got?
which parts that had modified in the bible? these questions is Just an examples
And if your book "Quran" asking you to believe in the bible but you are saying the bible is corrupted then .
1-you are accusing God that he cheated all people because he left his words to be corrupted and left the original books to be lost.
2-your aren't a complete Muslim because you believe in books not exist and claiming that they are corrupted without proof althought your God asked you to believe in them .
3-you are not reading the previous books althought God told you in Quran :
No change can there be in the Words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme Felicity. (Surah 10, Junus, verse 64)
"O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord...." (Surah 5, Al Ma'idah, verse 68)
And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that) was before thee... (Surah 10, Jonah, verse 94)
There are a lot of verses confirming the authentication of the bible.
you have to believe in to be true muslim my friend.
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians):
Exceed not the limits in your religion (by believing in something) other than the truth and do not follow the vain desires of people who went astray in times gone by, and who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the Right Path." 5:77
(And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah. They do not sell the Verses of Allah for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, Allah is Swift in account) 3:199
(And when they (Christians) listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of the truth they have recognised. They say: "Our Lord! We believe; so write us down among the witnesses.
And why should we not believe in Allah and in that which has come to us of the truth (Islamic Monotheism)? And we wish that our Lord will admit us (in Paradise on the Day of Resurrection) along with the righteous people (Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Companions radhiallahu'anhu)." So because of what they said, Allah rewarded them Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), they will abide therein forever. Such is the reward of good-doers.But those who disbelieved and belied Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they shall be the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire) 5:83-86
---------------------- 15 O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,- 16 Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the light,- guideth them to a path that is straight. 17 In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." 18 (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and his beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)" 19 O People of the Book! Now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) our apostles, lest ye should say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)": But now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things.
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NO doubt that I didnt confirm That Your book is authentci nowadays. YOur book that declares the trinity is no longer from God. YOu have edited it. And historcally i can bring you proofs about the time of Change. if you need the proofs i'm ready for it
64 Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah. that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah.s Will). 65 Ye People of the Book! Why dispute ye about Abraham, when the Law and the Gospel Were not revealed Till after him? Have ye no understanding? 66 Ah! Ye are those who fell to disputing (Even) in matters of which ye had some knowledge! but why dispute ye in matters of which ye have no knowledge? It is Allah Who knows, and ye who know not! 67 Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah.s (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah. 68 Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Messenger and those who believe: And Allah is the Protector of those who have faith. 69 It is the wish of a section of the People of the Book to lead you astray. But they shall lead astray (Not you), but themselves, and they do not perceive! 70 Ye People of the Book! Why reject ye the Signs of Allah, of which ye are (Yourselves) witnesses? 71 Ye People of the Book! Why do ye clothe Truth with falsehood, and conceal the Truth, while ye have knowledge? 72 A section of the People of the Book say: "Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers, but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) Turn back; 73 "And believe no one unless he follows your religion." Say: "True guidance is the Guidance of Allah. (Fear ye) Lest a revelation be sent to someone (else) Like unto that which was sent unto you? or that those (Receiving such revelation) should engage you in argument before your Lord?" Say: "All bounties are in the hand of Allah. He granteth them to whom He pleaseth: And Allah careth for all, and He knoweth all things
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I am wondering Sultan that you are using Quran's verses to confirm what you are saying ,so if I did the same and I used some from the bible can you believe what I am saying ?isn't logic to confirm what you are saying from Quran that nonmulims don't belive that it's from God?
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Egyptian_batman: BELIEF IN THE ONENESS OF GOD (ALLAH): Jesus was very explicit in his words about the “Unity of God” instead of the “Holy Trinity” which he never said nor preached in his lifetime:
1. Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you Satan! it is written:” you shall worship the Lord your God, and him only you shall serve”.
2. Mark 12:29 Jesus answered him. “The first of all the commandments is: Hear O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is one”.
3. Isiah 43:10-11 “Before me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior.”
4. John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and of Jesus Christ whom you have sent”.
Batman,
Dude, you don't know what you are talking about! Seriously! I asked you a while ago about the "abrogations" found in the Koran. How come you never answered me? I will ask you again. Why is it that the Koran tells Christians and Jews in Surah 2 that they will be ok as long as they do good works, etc., but then in another Surah, it then says that Islam is the only religion? Why? Why does allah change his mind? According to the Bible, the God says, "I the Lord do not change"...book of Malachi. God doesn't change his word. So why does allah change his? Why? Does that mean that prior to the abrogation of Surah two that Christians and Jews were able to enter the Muslim heaven and have 72 virgins? I mean, before Muhammad said that allah changed his mind, he told Jews and Christians that they were ok, yet he changes..............I don't understand? Acutually I do understand. But i am not here to disrespect you and or anybody here. But when you try to challenge my faith, I have the knowledge to challenge yours. We can go deeper than this simple argument if you want.........Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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it is funny that Sultan tries to talk about the Bible, and trys to trample on Christian belief in the trinity, founded upon Scripture(Old and New Testament), yet the Quran is hardly a historical book! The Bible has evidence, proof. It was recorded in the historical past that archealogists dig up and search for, finding evidence, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, and profane history such as the rise of Tarhakah, pharoah of Kush, recorded in the books of Kings, Chronicles(I think), Isaiah, etc. Hence, it confirms the histories of Assyria and Kush(Egypt) when those two empires warred against one another............
What I am saying is that the Bible is a recorder of historical events. The Quran doesn't come close..........Everyone from the Christians, Jews, PErsians, Sabians, etc., claim that Muhammad simply took from their legends, beliefs, scriptures, etc., and weaved them into a writing we now call the Koran. The Koran is embarrasingly unhistorical. I challenge Batman and Sultan to truly study the Koran to find historical authencity..........you will hardly find it except perhaps in the life of Muhammad. The Bible has been proven to be a historical book. The Koran is NOT the same at all...........Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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Let us see what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding the validity and the reliability of the Bible:
Narrated AbuNamlah al-Ansari: "When he was sitting with the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and a Jew was also with him, a funeral passed by him. He (the Jew) asked (Him): Muhammad, does this funeral speak? The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah has more knowledge. The Jew said: It speaks.
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Whatever the people of the Book [Jews and Christians] tell you, do not verify them, nor falsify them, but say: We believe in Allah and His Apostle. If it is false, do not confirm it, and if it is right, do not falsify it. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Knowledge (Kitab Al-Ilm), Book 25, Number 3637)"
The following two Sayings of our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him were sent to me by Yusif 65; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:
Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"
Narrated Abu Huraira: "The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Apostle said (to the Muslims). 'Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.' ' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 460)"
As we clearly see in the above Sayings of our beloved Prophet peace be upon him, the source that the Jews and Christians use (i.e. the Bible or any other religious source such as their Popes', Rabbis or other religious people's verdicts) must be ignored because it is not reliable. As we've seen in the above introduction, the man-made scribes (laws) had corrupted the Bible and turned it "into a lie" (Jeremiah 8:8).
According to Islam, Allah Almighty (GOD Almighty) in the Bible promised those who try to tamper His Words in the Bible to face hell fire, because He knew that it was going to happen. He gave the people of the book (Jews and Christians) a chance/test and they simply blew it!. Today, there is no one Bible!. The number of Books/Gospels in the Roman Catholics Bible for instance is different from the King James Version Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Jehovah's Witnesses Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Mormon's Bible, etc... Look at Noble Verse 5:13 from the Noble Quran: "But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (Jews and Christians) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others)." Israel, when it lost Allah Almighty's grace, began to sin against truth and religion in three ways: (1) they began to misuse Scripture itself, by either taking words out of their right meaning, or applying them to things for which they were never meant; (2) in doing so, they conveniently forgot a part of the Message and purpose of Allah; and (3) they invented new deceits to support the old ones.
Let us look at Noble Verse 5:41 "O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment."
Please visit History of man's corruption in the Bible for more details. Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran on the other hand, did promise that He will personally guard the Noble Quran from corruption. He never promised hell fire to anyone who tries to tamper His words in the Noble Quran. He will guard it Himself; "We (Allah) have, without a doubt, sent down the Message (The Quran); and We (Allah) will assuredly Guard it [from corruption]. (The Noble Quran, 15:9)." Today we have only one Arabic Noble Quran.
Visit: The lie of 1 John 5:7, where it was later discovered to be a man made corruption inserted into the Bible.
"Son of GOD" conflict between the Bible and the Noble Quran.
How is Allah Almighty telling the Jews and Christians to follow their Books when these Books had been corrupted?
Do the errors in the Bible prove that the Noble Quran is not from GOD?
What parts of the Bible do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth? and Why?
Did Prophet Muhammad recognize the Bible as an error-free book?
A continuation to my answer from sister Jacqueline S. Waheed; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with her:
The above question has [THREE] parts, so let us see the answers accordingly. To answer the part ["Muslims believe that the current Bible is not all the true word of GOD, and only the Quran is"] Yes, Muslims believes that current bible [OT &NT] is not the one[s], which God [Allaah] almighty gave to Moses and Jesus [peace be upon them]. But it is also verified and confirmed by Noble Qur'aan, which is the main source of Muslims' belief. If you read OT, NT, and Noble Qur'aan, it will become obvious that all missing links in the bible are found in Noble Qur'aan and it makes undeniable sense. That is why once one explore the Noble Qur'aan with its entirety in almost all cases it is inevitable for him/her to not say the Shahada.
To respond to the second part of question ["If so, then why did the GOD of Islam allow for His Words to get corrupted in the Bible?"] "If so" is hardly the case here, beside that one cannot blame the God [Allaah] The Creator, all Knower, and all Seer of all heavens and earth for allowing His words to be corrupted. Such blame ONLY represents a typical frivolous product liability lawsuit mentality. That will not work in this UNIQUE case, because the God [Allaah], has already replaced the abused and tempered [by human] product with far SUPERIOR [product] the Final Revelation *****THE NOBLE QUR'AAN***** Which by the way is another testament of God's existence that He not only can save His word, but again He can give mankind a chance to correct himself and follow his true word [The Noble Qur'aan] to be saved. Because God [Allah] is the Most Beneficent and Most Merciful.
To answer the last part of question ["or why did He allow for the original copy of the Bible to be lost?"]. Again in this part we see the frivolous product liability lawsuit mentality. Having said that God [Allaah] did not allow [original] copy to be lost. It was the keepers of bible[OT & NT] who tempered it and hide many facts that resulted in current bible not making any sense. Which by the way is also confirmed by God [Allaah] in Noble Qur'aan and I quote:
005.015 YUSUFALI: O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book, - PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. now hath come unto you light from Allah and plain Scripture, SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;
Followed by God [Allaah] emphasizing in Noble Qur'aan [next verse]:
005.016 YUSUFALI: Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the light,- guideth them to a path that is straight. PICKTHAL: Whereby Allah guideth him who seeketh His good pleasure unto paths of peace. He bringeth them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and guideth them unto a straight path. SHAKIR: With it Allah guides him who will follow His pleasure into the ways of safety and brings them out of utter darkness into light by His will and guides them to the right path.
Bottom line is that as question itself indicates by use of [words] "original copy" which is highly inappropriate in this case. However, implication by virtue of question is absurd. Because FORENSIC AND EMPIRICAL RESULTS proves that MASTER COPY [or SOURCE CODE] was never lost nor tempered. It was and it has always been in possession of God [Allaah] the Creator of all heaven and earth. It further proves the existence of ONE and ONLY God [Allaah] the all Knower and all Seer who way ahead foretold to Jews and Christians in OT and NT about the arrival of Prophet Muhammed [saw] and commanded Jews and Christians to follow Prophet Muhammed [saw].
Noble Qur'aan 3:64! Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh[]. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."
Noble Qur'aan 3:85! And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers[].
Example: If Johnny writes a letter to Marry Joe and saves it. That Marry Joe later edits and/or modify claiming to be original letter by Johnny. That can be proven wrong by Johnny because he got the master copy. So to make Marry Joe looks like a fool and a liar all Johnny has to do is to give another copy of Jean Doe to show the people that she [Marry Joe] is lying. It pretty bad, for Marry Joe, isn't it?
it is funny that Sultan tries to talk about the Bible, and trys to trample on Christian belief in the trinity, founded upon Scripture(Old and New Testament), yet the Quran is hardly a historical book! The Bible has evidence, proof. It was recorded in the historical past that archealogists dig up and search for, finding evidence, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, and profane history such as the rise of Tarhakah, pharoah of Kush, recorded in the books of Kings, Chronicles(I think), Isaiah, etc. Hence, it confirms the histories of Assyria and Kush(Egypt) when those two empires warred against one another............
What I am saying is that the Bible is a recorder of historical events. The Quran doesn't come close..........Everyone from the Christians, Jews, PErsians, Sabians, etc., claim that Muhammad simply took from their legends, beliefs, scriptures, etc., and weaved them into a writing we now call the Koran. The Koran is embarrasingly unhistorical. I challenge Batman and Sultan to truly study the Koran to find historical authencity..........you will hardly find it except perhaps in the life of Muhammad. The Bible has been proven to be a historical book. The Koran is NOT the same at all...........Salaam
Hi Israel,
How about the fact that the Bible and the Quran are more than merely books to be compared as to which is the most historical? Both books are believed to contain guidance from Allah therefore it would make sense that they contain replicas and similarities in the content.
A Muslim believes that Allah sent many prophets to deliver his message: 043.006 YUSUFALI: But how many were the prophets We sent amongst the peoples of old?
It stands to reason that if the Prophets of the 3 major religions came from the One God, then the messages would be the same.
In the same Surah we have the ayat:
043.003 YUSUFALI: We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
The Quran was originally delivered to the Arab people in the language that they understood, same as the Torah and Injeel were originally sent in the language of the people it was delivered to. Same message, different people and different languages.
I haven't read the posts of Sultan or Batman, however I don't agree with the effort to prove whose book is the right one. You can find tons of information on the net to disprove the authenticity of both books, but it's down to each of us what we want to believe.
“It's all a matter of interpretation, my dear Watson,” Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:It's obligatory for christian living under the islamic system to pay Jizia( Tax).
why they have to pay Jizya? why only christians and Jewish?
what could happen if America and Britian do the same with Muslims?how could be the reaction of Muslims in the world?
if this a justice why it's mention in Quran Suran Altoba 9-verse29 to pay the Jizia in sumbmission otherwise they will be killed till believe in Islam
FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued
can you explain how could be JUSTICE?
they pay jizayah because they are not to be submitted to the army, if they are to join the force of army they don't have to pay jizyah.. not only this if they can't pay the jizyah they don't pay and they take money from the "zakat" that comes from muslims, zakat itself can be much more than the jizyah .. In Egypt the 'zimmis' don't pay jizyah because they are sumbitted to the army.
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:they pay jizayah because they are not to be submitted to the army, if they are to join the force of army they don't have to pay jizyah..
From where you got this explaination!!!
FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued
can you read the verse again to understand that the people of the books(christians and Jewish) have two options whether to fight Muslims because they don't follow Mohamed and the right religion (Islam)or to pay the Jizya to Muslims for avoiding to be killed and they have to pay it in submission and surrender.
your explaination is just moveing around the verse and to try convinceing non muslims by the merciful of the meaning.
I can tell you that today in 2006 AD and 1427 Hijri,everything had changed,you can't now convince 9 years old child by Isara amd Meraj story or the meeting between God and Mohamed ,you can't simply saying anything untill telling them logically explaination.
the people now became smart than before and they don't like the people who were living during Mohamed's time .
quote:In Egypt the 'zimmis' don't pay jizyah because they are sumbitted to the army.
Of course wrong because the Human rights institutions,united nation and of course America will not leave Egypt to do that,I didn't tell you that everything had changed and we are living in 2006 I hope it's clear now.
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
[Of course wrong because the Human rights institutions,united nation and of course America will not leave Egypt to do that,I didn't tell you that everything had changed and we are living in 2006]
kos omm america 3la kos omm il human right. let them go to Abu gharib they will find them treating Irq peapole like insect we dont abuse chritistian. u know what they do in Abugharib, they let prsioner eat their stool.
Then u call Un and Human right, they are ass hoooles.
We dont abuse chrstian
We will fight the Un and Islam wil prevail ans spread Justic Like Sultan said in his post
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Is that Un that Allow prsioner in Abu Gharib to force other prsoner to make homosexuality .
What do we do to the zimmi?
do we persecute them?
FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued
this verse is aboout those ass holole like Un that persecute Iraqis. we will make them suck their ass holes because they are criminal, dude
Quran is clear and we will fight to make justice prevails
loveforever . what kind of love do u have? do u love to let iraqies **** them selves in prsiner under the action of torture. Do u love to see People is treated by High voltage electricity
Muslims will make Jihad to this fuccking assholes orgainization
we have the ultimate Justice, dude.
r u egy copt?
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:they pay jizayah because they are not to be submitted to the army, if they are to join the force of army they don't have to pay jizyah..
From where you got this explaination!!!
FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth(Islam), from among the People of the Book (christians and Jewish), until they pay the Jizya with willing SUBMISSION, and feel themselves subdued
can you read the verse again to understand that the people of the books(christians and Jewish) have two options whether to fight Muslims because they don't follow Mohamed and the right religion (Islam)or to pay the Jizya to Muslims for avoiding to be killed and they have to pay it in submission and surrender.
your explaination is just moveing around the verse and to try convinceing non muslims by the merciful of the meaning.
I can tell you that today in 2006 AD and 1427 Hijri,everything had changed,you can't now convince 9 years old child by Isara amd Meraj story or the meeting between God and Mohamed ,you can't simply saying anything untill telling them logically explaination.
the people now became smart than before and they don't like the people who were living during Mohamed's time .
quote:In Egypt the 'zimmis' don't pay jizyah because they are sumbitted to the army.
Of course wrong because the Human rights institutions,united nation and of course America will not leave Egypt to do that,I didn't tell you that everything had changed and we are living in 2006 I hope it's clear now.
My explaination comes from Al-Azhar. In all the history of islam Zimmi's wasn't submitted to the jizyah. The Jizyah itself is a fee for protection. The above verse is not about the citizens it is for the other government whom fight against islam.
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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